Tony Stewart Is laughing at us

[harpo88]

He spends what he can. It's easy for us to spend his money. His biggest failing is his terminal inability to appoint a decent manager. I look at Plymouth, now an established Championship club in one year. They have had a sequence of excellent managers who were not expensive. They were all discovered by a club which knew the importance of getting this right.

But - how?
And, sure Plymouth at the moment are doing well and seem to have had a good run with managers, but we've had a lot more seasons in the Championship than they have since TS took over. Their new manager's had a good start but it might not last and if it doesn't then it just means they've had two successes in a row.

And there are lots of other clubs who have underperformed compared to us. Look at most managers' records - hardly any have multiple successes.

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

He spends what he can. It's easy for us to spend his money. His biggest failing is his terminal inability to appoint a decent manager. I look at Plymouth, now an established Championship club in one year. They have had a sequence of excellent managers who were not expensive. They were all discovered by a club which knew the importance of getting this right.

But - how?
And, sure Plymouth at the moment are doing well and seem to have had a good run with managers, but we've had a lot more seasons in the Championship than they have since TS took over. Their new manager's had a good start but it might not last and if it doesn't then it just means they've had two successes in a row.

And there are lots of other clubs who have underperformed compared to us. Look at most managers' records - hardly any have multiple successes.

Old 1st Division [now premier] old 2nd Division [now championship]

Rotherham United held being the longest serving team in the 2nd division [now championship], but after numerous relegations,
the Millers lost this, & Plymouth Argyle became the longest serving team in the division 2 [now championship]

I don't know who holds the longest serving team for division 2 [now championship] now.

[mellowmiller]

Again, even if there were someone filthy rich looking to invest - a) we still have to meet FFP rules, b) that would basically piling the club with debt because we won't have enough operating income to cover it, c) it's totally unsustainable unless we can somehow triple the fanbase and keep them and d) there have been lots of other clubs who have piled money in and it hasn't guaranteed success. There are only so many places higher than us in the pyramid, and what if all the other clubs also get big investments?

Bournemouth haven't tripled their fan base, neither have Brentford and I'm not aware that either of them have breached FFP rules.

[Nardendee]

Old 1st Division [now premier] old 2nd Division [now championship]

Rotherham United held being the longest serving team in the 2nd division [now championship], but after numerous relegations,
the Millers lost this, & Plymouth Argyle became the longest serving team in the division 2 [now championship]

I don't know who holds the longest serving team for division 2 [now championship] now.

Birmingham City (since 2010/11)

[howdydoo]

Bournemouth haven't tripled their fan base, neither have Brentford and I'm not aware that either of them have breached FFP rules.

Once upon a time:

I think a lot of people believe Bournemouth reached the promised land on a shoestring.

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...air-play-rules

[harpo88]

Bournemouth haven't tripled their fan base, neither have Brentford and I'm not aware that either of them have breached FFP rules.

Brentford have eventually worked out ok because they've made a profit in the last 2 seasons - Premier League broadcast income and player sales - but between 2015 to 2020 they had average losses of around £20m a year. I guess that's just what is needed nowadays based on the track record of most clubs but it'd make me pretty uncomfortable if we were doing that, and not sure how it'd work out for them if they get relegated.

As someone else said Bournemouth were bankrolled and had to pay a fine for their promotion season.

Not saying that it can't be done with a rich owner, but there have been plenty of owners far richer than TS of bigger clubs that haven't worked out.

[mellowmiller]

Brentford have eventually worked out ok because they've made a profit in the last 2 seasons - Premier League broadcast income and player sales - but between 2015 to 2020 they had average losses of around £20m a year. I guess that's just what is needed nowadays based on the track record of most clubs but it'd make me pretty uncomfortable if we were doing that, and not sure how it'd work out for them if they get relegated.

As someone else said Bournemouth were bankrolled and had to pay a fine for their promotion season.

Not saying that it can't be done with a rich owner, but there have been plenty of owners far richer than TS of bigger clubs that haven't worked out.

Like a few people I've said "be careful what you wish for" in the past but, in reality we're all guilty of assuming things might get worse if there was a change of ownership at the club.
That doesn't necessarily make sense because it assumes we will automatically end up with a bad owner but why should that be the case?
It seems apparent that the club has reached a tipping point now because people are realising we're just going to keep rotating on this same old merry-go-round unless there is some serious new investment in the club.
Some people will just blindly accept that situation but I suspect an increasingly large number won't.

[Nardendee]

We are where we are I’m afraid. Whether that’s a good or bad thing depends on your point of view.
We have always been in the shadow of the bigger Sheffield clubs. Sure we have given them a bloody nose along the way, even been in higher divisions, but this will never make us a bigger club. Typically even under Anton Johnson, we survived just two seasons in the second tier, and Emlyn Hughes got sacked.
Even 30 million would only extend our stay by a season or two. Ronnies was the best attempt, where we survived four seasons before eventually descending.
There is now much more money, and larger squads favour the bigger clubs. Mega wealthy owners, stupid wages.
I must admit I am confused as to what to think.

Our natural level is League 1, and because of what has happened in recent years, a very strong and competitive League 1 team. An attractive proposition for that level but not so for the level above.
The big disappointment is that we are now well adrift in a very average league (aside from 4-6 teams) and the end of the season can’t come quick enough.

One side of me thinks League 1 is our level, and we should win more games but from a progressive viewpoint, that level holds limited interest.
The wall of secrecy and poor communication drives me further away and don’t feel I have the connection I once had. It is no longer enjoyable.
Bearing in mind having followed and travelled the length and breadth of the country in those dark days of the seventies that is some statement. Relegation to Division 4 for the first time.
Night games at Swansea, Southend Carlisle, long trips to Queen of the South for a friendly and hitch hiking to to Plymouth. I feel looking back we had more identity then than now. It was something to look forward to and enjoy, regardless of result. We knew we weren’t great but we knew who we were as a club.
Those days have gone though. We are just customers. There might be a plan but we don’t know. We just cannot compete at this level against much bigger teams, many of whom have a wages ratio of far more than 100% than revenue generated, which makes it impossible for us.
Money is king now. I am looking for a club that is no longer there, a bit like looking at pictures of Rotherham town centre from a bygone era. I went with my Dad, who passed in 2021 at the age of 98, having followed the club since 1933. It was more than a pastime. It was a whole way of life.
Those days will never return and perhaps I should accept that and should be looking at other forms of enjoyment away from football for my sporting fix.
I will always want the best for my team, but amongst all the vitriol within the fan base, the indifference and poor communication from the club, I feel that my love for the club that once meant so much to me, has sadly (along with my Dad) died.

[Tigerish]

Consolidation in the Championship means lots of lovely TV money comes in. Each season the cash in the bank gets bigger so you can push the boat out further. But to consolidate you need a manager who really knows what he's doing. When Warne left, we could and should have done far better than Taylor. We were doing well in the Championship, an attractive proposition looking as though we might consolidate. But Tony Stewart failed miserably to get the right man. And history has repeated itself now

[mellowmiller]

We are where we are I’m afraid. Whether that’s a good or bad thing depends on your point of view.
We have always been in the shadow of the bigger Sheffield clubs. Sure we have given them a bloody nose along the way, even been in higher divisions, but this will never make us a bigger club. Typically even under Anton Johnson, we survived just two seasons in the second tier, and Emlyn Hughes got sacked.
Even 30 million would only extend our stay by a season or two. Ronnies was the best attempt, where we survived four seasons before eventually descending.
There is now much more money, and larger squads favour the bigger clubs. Mega wealthy owners, stupid wages.
I must admit I am confused as to what to think.

Our natural level is League 1, and because of what has happened in recent years, a very strong and competitive League 1 team. An attractive proposition for that level but not so for the level above.
The big disappointment is that we are now well adrift in a very average league (aside from 4-6 teams) and the end of the season can’t come quick enough.

One side of me thinks League 1 is our level, and we should win more games but from a progressive viewpoint, that level holds limited interest.
The wall of secrecy and poor communication drives me further away and don’t feel I have the connection I once had. It is no longer enjoyable.
Bearing in mind having followed and travelled the length and breadth of the country in those dark days of the seventies that is some statement. Relegation to Division 4 for the first time.
Night games at Swansea, Southend Carlisle, long trips to Queen of the South for a friendly and hitch hiking to to Plymouth. I feel looking back we had more identity then than now. It was something to look forward to and enjoy, regardless of result. We knew we weren’t great but we knew who we were as a club.
Those days have gone though. We are just customers. There might be a plan but we don’t know. We just cannot compete at this level against much bigger teams, many of whom have a wages ratio of far more than 100% than revenue generated, which makes it impossible for us.
Money is king now. I am looking for a club that is no longer there, a bit like looking at pictures of Rotherham town centre from a bygone era. I went with my Dad, who passed in 2021 at the age of 98, having followed the club since 1933. It was more than a pastime. It was a whole way of life.
Those days will never return and perhaps I should accept that and should be looking at other forms of enjoyment away from football for my sporting fix.
I will always want the best for my team, but amongst all the vitriol within the fan base, the indifference and poor communication from the club, I feel that my love for the club that once meant so much to me, has sadly (along with my Dad) died.

Good post Nardendee and it probably encapsulates what quite a few supporters are feeling at the moment.
I was going to say, particularly us older ones, but as I've mentioned before, a lot of 40 somethings have given up on this season, probably won't renew and yet they're the sort of age group the club should be trying desperately hard to retain.