Lee Anderson suspended

[baggieal]

Labour is full of antisemitism and look no further than a lot of their MP’s and of course the nut jobs called Corbyn’s who attend the protests. Not heard a whisper about over throwing disgusting terrorists like Hamas and their heinous acts! Do the Palestinian civilians honestly think Hamas are doing them any favours?

Yes we are a democratic society but how many protests should there be for the same agenda. I bet the police bill alone will top 100 million along with innocents being injured and shops trashed. Maybe a limit on the number of protests which could mean more funds for Ukraine the forgotten country whilst Putin’s thugs march on. Surely Europe should be more bothered about what Russia is doing than eyes on Gaza albeit tragic but not on our door step!

[Omegstrat6]

Labour is full of antisemitism and look no further than a lot of their MP’s and of course the nut jobs called Corbyn’s who attend the protests. Not heard a whisper about over throwing disgusting terrorists like Hamas and their heinous acts! Do the Palestinian civilians honestly think Hamas are doing them any favours?

Yes we are a democratic society but how many protests should there be for the same agenda. I bet the police bill alone will top 100 million along with innocents being injured and shops trashed. Maybe a limit on the number of protests which could mean more funds for Ukraine the forgotten country whilst Putin’s thugs march on. Surely Europe should be more bothered about what Russia is doing than eyes on Gaza albeit tragic but not on our door step!

Certainly agree with you about Ukraine. Putin may have been surprised at the resilience and bravery of Ukrainians in thwarting his anticipation of a quick victory but think he has always known that playing the long game would lead to fatigue in Western support for them. Plus, of course, Russia simply has far more men and military hardware than Ukraine and he also has absolutely no scruples about using his own troops as cannon fodder to achieve his aims.

Personally, I don't believe that even Putin would want to engage in a direct confrontation with NATO forces, regardless of all his brinkmanship and rhetoric. If eventually successful in Ukraine, would he then go on to attack Poland? I don't think so but the Poles are clearly worried. As for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania maybe I'd be worried. Putin has long argued that NATO expansion eastwards has been a provocation to Russia. Maybe, but he clearly still thinks of these now independent countries as historically Russian and is oblivious to the fact that these countries themselves were keen to join NATO precisely because they feared Putin's intentions rather than NATO deliberately setting out to recruit them.

Worrying as the situation in the Middle East is, ultimately I agree with you that what happens in Ukraine will impact on us far more. To not continue to support Ukraine and allow Putin to achieve victory in his primary goals would be a very slippery slope, not only encouraging him to further actions but maybe also enboldening a watching China.

Potentially dangerous times ahead and whilst I believe that those claiming WW3 is just around the corner are doing a bit of scaremongering, I do agree with them that we urgently need to address the shortfall in our military capabilities.

[animallittle3]

Just read that Labour's Rachel Reeves has come under attack for her speech where she vowed to come down hard on individuals or communities who expressed anti-Zionist views by those claiming that this was a sign of growing Islamophobia in this country. I just wish that people would try and take the heat out of this debate and discuss things rationally rather than extremists on both sides using rhetoric that only inflames things and incites hatred and racism. Both the RW (including 123s beloved DM&#128513 and LW press are guilty of this.

As for Rachel Reeves, she needs to use her words more carefully- -or at least clarify her position. If she construed anti-Zionism to be those who would seek the destruction of the state of Israel then most right thinking people would surely agree with her. But Zionism is all about expansion. Ugly truth, it may be, but it isn't too different than the German concept of Liebestraum which Hitler used to justify Nazi expansion eastwards (though the idea actually predates him). Look at a map of Israel in 1949 and compare it to one today to see how much land Israel has annexed (illegally) from Palestine over the years. Netanyahu and other right wing Zionists have made no bones about the fact that they will continue this policy. Is it really wrong then to criticise Israel for this, or their treatment of Palestinians? Should the horrors that the Jews endured during the Holocaust (and under Stalin) prevent us from being able to challenge Israel? Netanyahu and others would argue that to do so is to be anti-Semitic but surely this is a lie as there is a difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism and there are many Jews who do not share extremist Zionist beliefs and would accept a two state solution. Rachel Reeves would have done better to make her views clearer.

As for Islamic Extremism, which would aim to destroy Western democracy, freedoms and values, I totally agree with animal that this poses a very real threat to us and that we have been far too soft in dealing with those who preach such hatred. This over tolerance will ultimately destroy the tolerances of our own society if we let it so we do need to fight back a lot harder. That said, the vast majority of Muslims in this country do not subscribe to these views and I believe that the scaremongering and (sometimes racist) RW rhetoric is throwing fuel on the fire and only increasing Islamophobia in the country. Anti-Semitism is certainly unacceptable but Islamophobia is equally so.

The heinous actions by Hamas in their attack on innocent Israelis rightly drew world wide condemnation and Israel has every right to seek out those responsible but does the legitimacy of this aim then justify the huge "collateral damage" done to the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza or make anyone who criticises this anti-Semetic?

As Mick said, the whole Israel/Palestine issue is so complex that whilst the two state option might appear the obvious solution, there are no easy answers. It is not helped by having two opposing extremists in positions of power and until Palestinians in Gaza turn against Hamas and Israelis against Netanyahu, sadly, there seems little hope of improvement. Anti-Semitism is abhorrent, but regarding Israel, it should not be forgotten that in his desire to drive a widening rift between Palestinians in Gaza and those in the West Bank (to prevent a united Palestinian front) Netanyahu has effectively propped up Hamas for years. A dirty, but rather open secret that people might also remember when discussing the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7th October.

I wouldn't claim the Israelis are angels by any means but none the less Hamas hides amongst the Palestinian people in Gaza which is why they are taking huge civilian casualties , you've got to ask yourself just how much do Hamas care about the Palestinian people ?

Here's the thing right , there are two million Arabs currently living in Israel peacefully and side by side with Jews and sharing its economic prosperity .

There is hardly a Jew tolerated in the middle eastern Islamic country's , they drive them out or kill them .

It isn't the land with the Palestinians it's the religion that's the issue and that's a view shared by the nearby Islamic nations , they've all had a pop at Israel only to lose badly .

They have a state in Gaza and they have a government and make their own decisions , the only thing they don't control is the airspace .

And yet on October 7th Hamas committed such dreadful atrocities against innocent Israelis .

Hamas are a terrorist organisation who specialise in murdering innocent civilians .

Israel is a country who kill terrorists and along the way innocent people did .

That's the difference .

[baggieal]

I wouldn't claim the Israelis are angels by any means but none the less Hamas hides amongst the Palestinian people in Gaza which is why they are taking huge civilian casualties , you've got to ask yourself just how much do Hamas care about the Palestinian people ?

Here's the thing right , there are two million Arabs currently living in Israel peacefully and side by side with Jews and sharing its economic prosperity .

There is hardly a Jew tolerated in the middle eastern Islamic country's , they drive them out or kill them .

It isn't the land with the Palestinians it's the religion that's the issue and that's a view shared by the nearby Islamic nations , they've all had a pop at Israel only to lose badly .

They have a state in Gaza and they have a government and make their own decisions , the only thing they don't control is the airspace .

And yet on October 7th Hamas committed such dreadful atrocities against innocent Israelis .

Hamas are a terrorist organisation who specialise in murdering innocent civilians .

Israel is a country who kill terrorists and along the way innocent people did .

That's the difference .

Correct! Do you think if the West had gone in hard in Ukraine like Israel have done with Hamas then the situation would be different? Of course it would because Putin knows there’s little appetite and inconsistent military aid!

[Omegstrat6]

I wouldn't claim the Israelis are angels by any means but none the less Hamas hides amongst the Palestinian people in Gaza which is why they are taking huge civilian casualties , you've got to ask yourself just how much do Hamas care about the Palestinian people ?

Here's the thing right , there are two million Arabs currently living in Israel peacefully and side by side with Jews and sharing its economic prosperity .

There is hardly a Jew tolerated in the middle eastern Islamic country's , they drive them out or kill them .

It isn't the land with the Palestinians it's the religion that's the issue and that's a view shared by the nearby Islamic nations , they've all had a pop at Israel only to lose badly .

They have a state in Gaza and they have a government and make their own decisions , the only thing they don't control is the airspace .

And yet on October 7th Hamas committed such dreadful atrocities against innocent Israelis .

Hamas are a terrorist organisation who specialise in murdering innocent civilians .

Israel is a country who kill terrorists and along the way innocent people did .

That's the difference .

No debate with you at all about the nature of Hamas animal and nor do I dispute that very many Jews and Arabs reside happily enough alongside each other in Israel or that many Middle Eastern countries, under more extreme Islamic rule, would actively persecute Jews. I just think that whilst it may be true that Israel does not engage in outright terrorist atrocities, it's actions over many years regarding expansion into Palestinian lands and the treatment of the Palestinians there have too often bordered on apartheid. Actions on both sides have caused resentment and provided fertile grounds for extremists to exploit.

A good few years ago the situation looked a bit more promising with younger generations of both Jews and Arabs more accepting of the two state proposal and willing to work together. The failure of democracy and of the so called "Arab Spring" in the region however has since led to the rise of autocratic Islamic Extremism in many countries and the Iranian backed "axis of resistance". Sadly, extremism on this side only led to the rise of right wing Zionists like Netanyahu on the other as Israel felt itself increasingly threatened.

Very difficult to see how the situation can be resolved when those with most power are so entrenched in their beliefs and refuse to compromise. I know that the situation is more complicated than just this but to start with ordinary Palestinians in Gaza need to turn against Hamas and Netanyahu needs to be voted out for there to be even a glimmer of hope for a resolution. The likelihood of this, however, seems sadly remote.

[DaveP67 is back!]

The conflict currently going on in Israel seems to me to have brought to the surface what the UK has become .

My blood boiled at the pathetic capitulation by the cowards we have representing us in Westminster last week .

That message projected on to Big Ben just about summed this country up .

I'll tell you where I am , I'm an ex miner who was on the wrong side of Thatcher but I'll tell you something I'd have her back in a heartbeat to sort this out .

Fecking MPs intimidated by extreme Islamists , the Jewish population scared to walk the streets !!!! .

Don't get me started on the left backing Palestine most of whom don't even know the history of this conflict and seem to have conveniently forgotten the events of October 7th which started the current conflict .

When Thatcher talked of " The Enemy Within " and the NUM it's not 1% of what we have living amongst us today .

I haven't a problem with immigration , I have a problem with people who hate us , hate our way of life , have no tolerance and are now intimidating democracy .

We have a real problem here because our current bunch of yellow bellied politicians haven't the minerals to face down these people and make the tough decisions like Thatcher did whether I agreed with her or not .

I'll leave you with this one .

Can you Baggies remember the 1980 Iranian Embassy siege in central London ?

Do you think you'd see the same ending today ?

I personally don't , that's how much this country has changed in my opinion .

I have only just read this, you are 100% right, I’m no little Englander and have been fortunate to travel the globe, the biggest threat to our liberal way of life is Islam, all bar the most moderate simply do not want our way of life to continue.

[DaveP67 is back!]

Just read that Labour's Rachel Reeves has come under attack for her speech where she vowed to come down hard on individuals or communities who expressed anti-Zionist views by those claiming that this was a sign of growing Islamophobia in this country. I just wish that people would try and take the heat out of this debate and discuss things rationally rather than extremists on both sides using rhetoric that only inflames things and incites hatred and racism. Both the RW (including 123s beloved DM&#128513 and LW press are guilty of this.

As for Rachel Reeves, she needs to use her words more carefully- -or at least clarify her position. If she construed anti-Zionism to be those who would seek the destruction of the state of Israel then most right thinking people would surely agree with her. But Zionism is all about expansion. Ugly truth, it may be, but it isn't too different than the German concept of Liebestraum which Hitler used to justify Nazi expansion eastwards (though the idea actually predates him). Look at a map of Israel in 1949 and compare it to one today to see how much land Israel has annexed (illegally) from Palestine over the years. Netanyahu and other right wing Zionists have made no bones about the fact that they will continue this policy. Is it really wrong then to criticise Israel for this, or their treatment of Palestinians? Should the horrors that the Jews endured during the Holocaust (and under Stalin) prevent us from being able to challenge Israel? Netanyahu and others would argue that to do so is to be anti-Semitic but surely this is a lie as there is a difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism and there are many Jews who do not share extremist Zionist beliefs and would accept a two state solution. Rachel Reeves would have done better to make her views clearer.

As for Islamic Extremism, which would aim to destroy Western democracy, freedoms and values, I totally agree with animal that this poses a very real threat to us and that we have been far too soft in dealing with those who preach such hatred. This over tolerance will ultimately destroy the tolerances of our own society if we let it so we do need to fight back a lot harder. That said, the vast majority of Muslims in this country do not subscribe to these views and I believe that the scaremongering and (sometimes racist) RW rhetoric is throwing fuel on the fire and only increasing Islamophobia in the country. Anti-Semitism is certainly unacceptable but Islamophobia is equally so.

The heinous actions by Hamas in their attack on innocent Israelis rightly drew world wide condemnation and Israel has every right to seek out those responsible but does the legitimacy of this aim then justify the huge "collateral damage" done to the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza or make anyone who criticises this anti-Semetic?

As Mick said, the whole Israel/Palestine issue is so complex that whilst the two state option might appear the obvious solution, there are no easy answers. It is not helped by having two opposing extremists in positions of power and until Palestinians in Gaza turn against Hamas and Israelis against Netanyahu, sadly, there seems little hope of improvement. Anti-Semitism is abhorrent, but regarding Israel, it should not be forgotten that in his desire to drive a widening rift between Palestinians in Gaza and those in the West Bank (to prevent a united Palestinian front) Netanyahu has effectively propped up Hamas for years. A dirty, but rather open secret that people might also remember when discussing the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7th October.

Zionism isn’t about expansionism, the only large expansions the state of Israel has ever had is following Arab attacks on their state. Started in 47 then 67, settlement encroachment of Gaza and the west bank was stopped over twenty years ago and up until 2007 land was being handed back, Israeli military removed themselves, there was a future for Gaza and the West Bank, then the Palestinians elected Hamas, whose from the river to the sea policy has destroyed them. Even now they send rockets, use the populous as human shields, they can’t win they are pure evil. Any sane leader would have surrendered their arms months ago, but then any sane leader wouldn’t have launched an atrocity on October 7th. They are not our friends, they hate our way of life, I genuinely believe people that support them are mentally ill.

[Albionic68]

Ben Gurion and Benny Morris may disagree with your interpretation of Zionism there. I wouldn't as I'm not clever enough to know the difference. I'm off 😃 .

[DaveP67 is back!]

Ben Gurion and Benny Morris may disagree with your interpretation of Zionism there. I wouldn't as I'm not clever enough to know the difference. I'm off 😃 .

Have actually been to his house (Ben Gurion) was a modest place for such a powerful man and looked to have not been extended!

[westcountryvillain]

Hamas were elected by the Palestinians as a protest against the corrupt Palestinian Authority, whose representatives Hamas then threw off buildings and instead of using foreign aid to build a thriving state they decided to spend the money on rockets to attack Israel using their own people as human shields.

They "tax" their businesses for protection money, as much as 40%, protection against who? Hamas of course, their only goal is the obliteration of Israel and annihilation of all jews, their M.O depends on chaos & carnage - they are evil & vicious.

Arabs live in Israel with rights that Gazans could only dream of, Hamas prevents its own citizens leaving Gaza because they are cowardly terrorists who attack innocents only because they are jews. Their leaders live a life of luxury in Qatar off the millions given to them in aid, miles away from the front line and have publicly stated 7th October was just a rehearsal for what is to come.

Genocide? Israel is reported to have the capability to wipe out Gaza at a stroke, it has stated that it won't stop until the hostages are released and Hamas is destroyed. So Hamas could end this, after all, it has threatened further attacks - what choice does Israel have?

I'd recommend the YT vids by Son of Hamas, he's the son of one of the founders - with Hamas, there can be no Palestine. There have previously been deals offered for a 2 state solution, always rejected.

I don't see mass demonstrations against the false imprisonment of 1.1M Uigyhur Muslims in China.