Give the manager more time

[optipez]

Success and failure are both collective. Nobody should be immune from constructive criticism when things aren't going well, but getting the pitchforks out and looking for one person to blame doesn't help either.

So far it seems we want the manager and coaches out, recruitment head out and now the chief exec. Not long now until some will want the Bros out.
Blowing everything up is just destructive. I suspect what we really need is Matty Palmer, an upgrade on Nemane as a wing back and two or at least one dominant centre half who can organise the defence and a big competent keeper.
Maynard is chopping and changing after we are leaking goals. I've written before how many games we've been behind within 15 minutes, it took 5 last night and against Crewe. We've got no chance of being successful like that, it's like playing with a handicap.

[jackal2]

So far it seems we want the manager and coaches out, recruitment head out and now the chief exec. Not long now until some will want the Bros out.

Blowing everything up is just destructive. I suspect what we really need is Matty Palmer, an upgrade on Nemane as a wing back and two or at least one dominant centre half who can organise the defence and a big competent keeper.
Maynard is chopping and changing after we are leaking goals. I've written before how many games we've been behind within 15 minutes, it took 5 last night and against Crewe. We've got no chance of being successful like that, it's like playing with a handicap.

Funnily enough I actually heard some old fart shout "Sack the board" at the Reedtz brothers when we let the third goal in against Crewe, although I remember his long, thin miserable face from a few years ago when he was a contributor to the toxic atmosphere then as well. The kind of brainless so-called 'fan' who could best serve the club by p*ssing off and never coming back.

As you say, tough times right now and there needs to be collective responsibility for the bad times just as there was for the good times, but blowing up everything would indeed be destructive and possibly fatal. We're on a bad run of results and confidence is low - it happens in football - and while the fans' frustration is understandable it shouldn't be allowed to turn into something hostile against a regime that saved the club and delivered us back into the Football League. The whole club needs to use the current experience as a learning opportunity with a view to becoming better and stronger next season. No success was ever achieved without going through adversity.

[upthemaggies]

What I take from that table is how deceptive and random such snapshots can be in judging a manager's eventual quality. Gudjon Thordarson and Steve Thompson in the top six! Sam Allardyce would have been at or very near the bottom if a slightly longer timeframe had been used.

Thompson is one of our better performing managers this century, the 5th best 4th tier manager who was in charge for at least 10 games, so he's where you'd expect him to be.
2 of the top 3 ultimately got us promoted, the other just missed out on the play offs.

Most managers 'set their stall out early'. A few on that list enjoyed a new manager bounce before it all went south (Thordarson, Fullarton, Kiwomya) whilst towards the bottom Allen and Burchnall are the only two that stand out as top half managers, Ardley's fortunes only changed after relegation and McP's with Munto. That table gives us as fair an idea as any as to what to expect, short of a crystal ball that would tell us SM's final stats. It's really not looking good for him unless we're relying on a prayer as opposed to results so far, which you have to compare to contrast and bring in to focus.

[sinophile]

It would be more useful if it was weighted to the league position of the opponents? SM has had a very difficult first few games (before last night).

[jackal2]

Thompson is one of our better performing managers this century, the 5th best 4th tier manager who was in charge for at least 10 games, so he's where you'd expect him to be.
2 of the top 3 ultimately got us promoted, the other just missed out on the play offs.

Most managers 'set their stall out early'. A few on that list enjoyed a new manager bounce before it all went south (Thordarson, Fullarton, Kiwomya) whilst towards the bottom Allen and Burchnall are the only two that stand out as top half managers, Ardley's fortunes only changed after relegation and McP's with Munto. That table gives us as fair an idea as any as to what to expect, short of a crystal ball that would tell us SM's final stats. It's really not looking good for him unless we're relying on a prayer as opposed to results so far, which you have to compare to contrast and bring in to focus.

You may be right about Maynard - time will tell - but the current owners are at least likely to give him some time, as is their way.

Thompson being (statistically) one of our better performing managers this century probably says more about our general fortunes up to 2020. Put it this way, next time the manager's role becomes vacant, I can imagine the reaction if anyone suggests Steve Thompson for the role!

[upthemaggies]

It would be more useful if it was weighted to the league position of the opponents? SM has had a very difficult first few games (before last night).

What about form? Stags and Wrexham were in poor form when we played them, Barrow have only won two games since Christmas and Gillingham were below us when SM arrived.
You can chuck in all sorts of variables but the bottom line is he's won 1 game out 7, lost 5 out of the last 6 and dropped us down from 6th to 14th in a league where apparently "anybody can beat anybody" as the saying always goes...... unless you've got Maynard in charge I guess.

[sinophile]

you've slightly misinterpreted what I was saying. Of course, current form when we played each team might be a better indication. All I was suggesting is that the stats are blunt instruments. Slightly different contexts might give different outcomes, I don't know. My comment was not a defence of SM. I think the sensible thing will be to give him more time, when more evidence will be available.

[Kent Magpie]

So far it seems we want the manager and coaches out, recruitment head out and now the chief exec. Not long now until some will want the Bros out.
Blowing everything up is just destructive. I suspect what we really need is Matty Palmer, an upgrade on Nemane as a wing back and two or at least one dominant centre half who can organise the defence and a big competent keeper.
Maynard is chopping and changing after we are leaking goals. I've written before how many games we've been behind within 15 minutes, it took 5 last night and against Crewe. We've got no chance of being successful like that, it's like playing with a handicap.

I think that this points out to the fact that there is a cumulation of things, not just one. Personally, I don't think any drastic personnel changes are needed, but some lessons taking on board and implementing and some support for SM as he tries to get to grips with things. If it is true that JoB is a more qualified coach, then I can see this being an issue unless they bring him more into the coaching team.

One thing I find interesting is that in football the first reaction is to sack the manager, but in reality there are multiple reasons for things going wrong and as a result replacing the manager doesn't ultimately solve the issue, and at best papers over the cracks. We saw that with Trew and Hardy, where they were the root cause of the issues. I think that our owners have moved beyond that and will look to see where all the issues are before deciding what needs to be done (including replacing the manager), which I think is the right approach.

I don't think the CEO needs to go, but I do think the culture has changed (not necessarily for the worse, just changed) and this will cause disruption and realignment. There has been a lot of upheaval off the field in the last 12 months, so is to be expected, but while things were going reasonably well it was hidden. Now things are going wrong elsewhere and so this changing culture will exacerbate things, which is what I think we are seeing in terms of cohesion on and off the field.

It wouldn't surprise me to see significant changes over the summer and going into 2025. I don't think our owners will change everything all at once, but one or two things at a time and see what the effects are and I suspect SM isn't the first thing in the firing line (at this point in time).

[upthemaggies]

All I was suggesting is that the stats are blunt instruments.

They are yes, but ultimately that's what it all hinges on, the final league table being no less blunt and paying no mercy to crucial decisions going against you, long term injuries, your rivals getting lucky with meeting more teams just before they sacked their manager etc. etc.

[the_anticlough]

You may be right about Maynard - time will tell - but the current owners are at least likely to give him some time, as is their way.

I don't think we should take it for granted that we know what 'their way' is when it comes to hiring, and especially firing.
The club was a mess when they took over. They allowed Ardley to steer us to 3rd (?) with steady progress up the table, and got to the covid-affected play-off final. But I don't think they hung about long in the second season and fired him pretty sharpish when the first prolonged run of poor results came along.
They don't want a dead ground with many thousands less attending. I don't think we should assume that they're not the types to be ruthless.