Give the manager more time

[the_anticlough]

Nice debate, but talking about the club's overall approach is just tiptoeing around the issue. It's absolutely fine and given us a clear identity. The issue is what's happening exactly now.

Since we thumped Morecambe 5-0, there's been a middle-order batting collapse, just 5 points from an available 27 - W1 D2 L6

In terms of vibe, I feel like we've been catapulted back to the moment IB walked out, just after the Grimsby loss, to move up in the world to Nailsworth's FGR. And the season we had Ruben, Williams and Maca at the club all at the same time seems like a glorious interlude (like Munto) that interrupted the business of usual thread from Ardley and IB to SM

All the losses, the break down in play, the collapse in confidence, the ill-discipline, the petulance... all points towards a morale problem and they aren't easy to turn around.

[wiseoldmagpie]

Nice debate, but talking about the club's overall approach is just tiptoeing around the issue. It's absolutely fine and given us a clear identity. The issue is what's happening exactly now.

Since we thumped Morecambe 5-0, there's been a middle-order batting collapse, just 5 points from an available 27 - W1 D2 L6

In terms of vibe, I feel like we've been catapulted back to the moment IB walked out, just after the Grimsby loss, to move up in the world to Nailsworth's FGR. And the season we had Ruben, Williams and Maca at the club all at the same time seems like a glorious interlude (like Munto) that interrupted the business of usual thread from Ardley and IB to SM

All the losses, the break down in play, the collapse in confidence, the ill-discipline, the petulance... all points towards a morale problem and they aren't easy to turn around.

I think that this is actually just as big an issue, if not bigger, than our obvious shortcomings in defence. No doubt the whole squad were gutted when Luke left, and SM therefore inherited a downbeat squad and a shortage of decent defenders whilst taking on a club way bigger than the one he left. We don't have an inspirational captain to drive the dressing room, and it seems some of our players are sensitive to fans criticism. All in all that is a potent mix of negative factors to contend with.

Best realistic case might be gradual improvement in performances and results to end mid-table, SM finds his way in the process, the summer sees some successful business and we start next season competitively though without Macca and Jodi. This is the best achievable outcome because we have completely lost momentum and have to fight to get it back.

[BanjoPie]

Are we getting a little carried away, as I sit here reading this whilst waiting to go down to theatre I’m thinking “its only a game of football”.

[slack_pie]

I'm sure I read the LAH hadn't kept one clean sheet during his loan at Crawley. It does make me wonder how Montague and the bothers think this is better than any of 3 including Brooks

I assume we signed him because he's comfortable with the ball at his feet and playing the sweeper-keeper role. Whether he can save shots, command his area, and claim crosses is secondary to that. Same with Stone. It's bonkers really.

[slack_pie]

I think that this is actually just as big an issue, if not bigger, than our obvious shortcomings in defence. No doubt the whole squad were gutted when Luke left, and SM therefore inherited a downbeat squad and a shortage of decent defenders whilst taking on a club way bigger than the one he left. We don't have an inspirational captain to drive the dressing room, and it seems some of our players are sensitive to fans criticism. All in all that is a potent mix of negative factors to contend with.

Best realistic case might be gradual improvement in performances and results to end mid-table, SM finds his way in the process, the summer sees some successful business and we start next season competitively though without Macca and Jodi. This is the best achievable outcome because we have completely lost momentum and have to fight to get it back.

There definitely seems to be an attitude problem. It's not that our players collectively have a bad or unprofessional attitude, it's more that they simply don't have the mindset to battle and fight when needed. You can't really teach that.

We have some incredibly gifted players, but the clubs has become a sort of refuge for talented players who have lost their way, and Luke Williams was a big reason why they rediscovered their form and love for the game. We'd do well to mix up that kind of player with battle-hardened warriors who won't crumble when things go wrong, or lash out at fans.

[jackal2]

Quarter of a season to go. We can't sign better players. We can't rely on a coach to achieve anything with his "tweaks", can't rely on a coach to make sure players players have discipline and don't show petulance to our supporters. Maybe there might be a an alternative to avoid a flirtation with relegation that doesn't involve tippy tappy football at the back that consistently highlights our deficiencies, resulting in one or two mistakes that end up with the ball in the back of our net. The one thing we can do is look to better defensive system, delivering security - as Maynard himself says - but obviously this old fashioned view is alien to the rose-tinted specs brigade. What worked for one of our seasons in non-league hasn't worked in League 2. We are playing better teams with more nous. Cliche? "Give the manager more time."

"Give the manager more time" may well be a cliche and I didn't write it, but I did write "evolution not revolution", which I suppose is another!

Seven games and one month isn't enough time to make a measured judgement about any manager, and I would be very surprised if the owners made any changes in the immediate future, because it's not their way. They make judgements based on reasonably large sample size of results and performances, as they did with Neal Ardley. The fact that there is a 'quarter of the season to go' will not be an overriding factor in their planning, because they have never adopted a 'promotion or bust' approach anyway. They keep calm and focus on the bigger picture, regardless of whether we're having a good or bad run of results in the short-term, and even if it means taking the long route rather than the short route to our ultimate collective goal of promotion. That's the right way compared with the constant chopping and changing seen under the previous regimes which led us out of the league. It's the patient approach of the current owners that led us back into the league, overcoming a couple of failed attempts and some dodgy runs of results along the way.

You seem to be making the case against 'tweaks', but then you suggest a single tweak. If you're talking about playing less tippy-tappy football in our own half then I agree and have said that myself in previous posts. Neil Warnock used to say "play your football in the opponent's half and not your own", and I think his reasoning was perfectly sound, i.e. if you're going to lose the ball or play a sloppy pass, which players at this level tend to do, then don't do it in the part of the field where there's no time to recover.

I don't see any reason, with the players we've got, why we can't continue to play the sort of stylish football we played at Newport under Maynard, but make things less complicated in the defensive third, as we arguably did in that game. It doesn't have to be an either/or choice between 'tippy-tappy' and lumping it to the forwards or hitting balls down the channels every time. There's a right time for all of these things, but the players are far more likely to be able to adapt to that mixed approach if you make gradual tweaks. If you try to change too much too quickly, you get confusion and risk a loss of confidence in all approaches.

The "rose-tinted specs" brigade is another lazy cliche, usually used to lump together anyone who doesn't agree that there must be immediate and drastic change. It's perfectly reasonable to recognise that recent results haven't been good enough, and to agree that things need to improve, without jumping to the conclusion that we should sack the Head Coach and completely abandon the playing identity we've been developing.

Anything worth building takes time, and you hit many setbacks along the way, but the fanbase needs to play its part in understanding this and not over-reacting during times like this. All panic does is create more panic, further undermining the confidence of the team and damaging the morale of the club. It's easy to cheer and shower praise when your team has scored over a hundred points and won promotion through the play-offs, however it's times like now, when the team/club has hit a barrier, where the fans need to be calmest and most supportive. I realise that's a massive ask of the football fan mentality, and sometimes I come up short myself (such as when I've just seen Aden Baldwin give the ball away for Sutton's second goal), but it's something we must try to do, because that's when support really matters.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I think that this is actually just as big an issue, if not bigger, than our obvious shortcomings in defence. No doubt the whole squad were gutted when Luke left, and SM therefore inherited a downbeat squad and a shortage of decent defenders whilst taking on a club way bigger than the one he left. We don't have an inspirational captain to drive the dressing room, and it seems some of our players are sensitive to fans criticism. All in all that is a potent mix of negative factors to contend with.

Best realistic case might be gradual improvement in performances and results to end mid-table, SM finds his way in the process, the summer sees some successful business and we start next season competitively though without Macca and Jodi. This is the best achievable outcome because we have completely lost momentum and have to fight to get it back.

The club has been through a lot in the past 12 months both positive and negative. The loss of CEO Jason Turner, the head coach Luke Williams and a key player in Ruben Rodrigues in this period is going to cause a lot of change. Since promotion at Wembley the club have had a new CEO Joe Palmer, a new head coach Stuart Maynard and a new key player such as Crowley come in along with other new players such as Robertson, Macari and Jatta during the season who need time to integrate into the team.

The momentum from last season was only going to carry the club so far with so much enforced change, and the point where dark clouds have come over Meadow Lane has probably arrived quicker than we may have anticipated at the start of the season. It's also compounded because we have not had a period where we've shown bottom of the table form since we were last in the football league five years ago. So it's almost alien to lose more games than you win in a block of six to ten games.

I don't think the slump we find ourselves in today can be attributed to just losing Luke Williams either although it's played it's part there are a culmination of factors that have been discussed and debated at length on here. A perfect storm has been brewing and there will be lessons to be learned as we go through this transitional period. I also don't agree that Stuart Maynard should be the fall guy for it all and more time is needed there as well.

I'd agree the best case scenario now is to try to make it to port through this storm without further damage and take stock and reset at the end of the season. Fans patience and player discipline will be key to this. Calm heads are required.

Of course the perfect medicine will be to get a few wins and try and finish the season on an upward curve and in better form. Salvage what we can going into the summer and take it from there.

[durhampie]

There definitely seems to be an attitude problem. It's not that our players collectively have a bad or unprofessional attitude, it's more that they simply don't have the mindset to battle and fight when needed. You can't really teach that.

We have some incredibly gifted players, but the clubs has become a sort of refuge for talented players who have lost their way, and Luke Williams was a big reason why they rediscovered their form and love for the game. We'd do well to mix up that kind of player with battle-hardened warriors who won't crumble when things go wrong, or lash out at fans.

They had lost their form way before LW jumped ship. Partly due to his inability to change things, and his insistence of playing square pegs in round holes.. If he had stopped, things would probably have been no better than what they are now....

[60YearsAPie]

They had lost their form way before LW jumped ship. Partly due to his inability to change things, and his insistence of playing square pegs in round holes.. If he had stopped, things would probably have been no better than what they are now....

I’ll throw a couple of observations into the discussion.

The first table backs up durhampie. The monthly PPG average shows a steady decline month by month up until LW’s departure. Since then, though, the PPG has fallen off a cliff.



Another interesting stat shows how massive the loss of Matty Palmer has been. We’ve averaged exactly half the PPG without him that we were averaging before his injury.

[jackal2]

They had lost their form way before LW jumped ship. Partly due to his inability to change things, and his insistence of playing square pegs in round holes.. If he had stopped, things would probably have been no better than what they are now....

I think that's mostly true to be honest, but I wouldn't necessarily use it as a criticism of either the previous Head Coach or the current one. I think it's just the nature of getting promoted and finding out what you have, and indeed don't have, to compete in the new league.

We had a way of playing, with the personnel available, that really worked for us in the National League and still worked for most of the first half of this season as we rode the momentum wave of promotion, but opponents at this level have "worked us out" and are noticeably better not only at disrupting our style but also exploiting it to score goals against us.

That means going through a process of gradually adapting both the way we play, and the personnel in the squad, to improve our competitiveness at this level. Scott Robertson and Lewis Macari are more combative players than some of our previous recruits, and we will need more incoming, especially in the centre-half position, but they won't all be brought in at once.