Cameron…

[hissingdwarf]

Possibly, I think Austin’s 100% better under SM and I’d say that for Nemane too. I think against popular opinion he’s starting to get the best out of JJ, I think people are wrong he wants to play on the left as when he joined he said cutting in off the right was his best position and I agree, as an inside right I would say is his best position, it’s too easy now to double mark him wide left now.

I think the double marking is spot on. Teams had us sussed. Teams had JJ down as the supply line and doubled or tripled at times the attention he got and it was far easier to mark him out of a game when he’s hugging the touchline on the left.
The point being fluidity is always the best option, even if as emotive fans we can’t see the reasons ‘in match.’

[PedroTheFisherman66]

At the risk of sounding like a member of his family, I think Cameron has long been unfairly maligned on here. I get that the defensive record has been shocking and he is the captain at the centre of it, liable to drop a rick from time to time, but I don't think it's fair to make him the whipping boy.

i second that emotion !!

[slack_pie]

I think he'd be good as a left back in a four. It's great to see him have a decent game and hope he drives us on for the rest of the season.

That's where I'd play him. He's decent on the ball for a defender and can even put a cross in, so full-back makes sense.

[Notts78]

So we play with full backs?

Problem with a lot of fans is that they are old fashioned in what they expect. Let’s take a centre back. They need to be rugged, horrible, 6ft 5in power houses. Except those types can’t play the way we want them to. Rawlo is the closest to the above and he has been found wanting.
The club have made a decision about the way they want us to play and as such we have ended up with ball playing defenders rather than the dominant CB’s many want. Due to the standard we are play at, the players make more mistakes as they are not used to playing the way we do.
I think KC gets more grief because he’s the captain, where as Baldwin has been immune to criticism from some because he’s the best defender at the club. This is the player that has dropped many a ******* this season. Maybe he should play right back?

[drillerpie]

So we play with full backs?

Problem with a lot of fans is that they are old fashioned in what they expect. Let’s take a centre back. They need to be rugged, horrible, 6ft 5in power houses. Except those types can’t play the way we want them to. Rawlo is the closest to the above and he has been found wanting.
The club have made a decision about the way they want us to play and as such we have ended up with ball playing defenders rather than the dominant CB’s many want. Due to the standard we are play at, the players make more mistakes as they are not used to playing the way we do.
I think KC gets more grief because he’s the captain, where as Baldwin has been immune to criticism from some because he’s the best defender at the club. This is the player that has dropped many a ******* this season. Maybe he should play right back?

I think the difference is that Baldwin shows himself to be an excellent defender in between his **** ups. He seems to actually like the physical battles with attackers and he likes tackling.

Cameron seems to me to not enjoy defending and to be scared of that part of his job. He doesn't seem to like getting tight with burly attackers in case they out strength him or roll him, which they often do. I would say he doesn't seem to trust his tackling so drops ever deeper to avoid being beaten. He doesn't like turning and clearing the ball under pressure hence the falling over.

In terms of characteristics that make a natural defender I would say Cameron is only good at heading the ball and popping up with blocks on the line. That's why I was happy to see Angry Kyle last weekend - that bit of aggression might help make him less fearful.

Cameron at full back against a pacey tricky winger would worry me. Assuming Baldwin leaves, I think our best bet is to leave him where he is and put a marquee signing solid reliable defender next to him, so he can focus on what he's good at, which is bringing the ball out and getting forward.

[The Dug Out]

We had 2 "hard men" in defence, Rawliinson & Baldwin, we now have only one......Baldwin. I like him, nearest we have to being a defensive nutter.

[jackal2]

Problem with a lot of fans is that they are old fashioned in what they expect. Let’s take a centre back. They need to be rugged, horrible, 6ft 5in power houses. Except those types can’t play the way we want them to. Rawlo is the closest to the above and he has been found wanting. The club have made a decision about the way they want us to play and as such we have ended up with ball playing defenders rather than the dominant CB’s many want. Due to the standard we are play at, the players make more mistakes as they are not used to playing the way we do. I think KC gets more grief because he’s the captain, where as Baldwin has been immune to criticism from some because he’s the best defender at the club.

There's a lot of nonsense talked - mostly in defence of Baldwin and Cameron - about them being compatible with the way the club wants to play, effectively excusing their failings by presenting a false dichotomy between them and the 'rugged, horrible, 6ft 5in power house' who can't pass for toffee. The implication being that any supporter who calls out the defensive failings of Kyle and Aden is somehow a neanderthal harking back to a bygone age and type of centre-half.

The truth is, even if you become the best team on the planet in terms of controlling possession, you're never going to have 100% of it, and when you haven't got the ball, you need players who can take up the correct defensive positions, concentrate, be aggressive, head the ball consistently, and tackle. In other words, you need some players whose primary ability is defensive, and the idea is to create a balance between that type of player and those who can be more comfortable and creative with the ball at their feet.

It's true that a good defender doesn't have to be huge, or a 'clogger' - Lisandro Martinez at Manchester United is a great example of a comparatively small defender who can also play - but his defensive fundamentals and instincts are excellent. He recognises that as a centre-half his primary job in the team is to destroy and win the ball back, and the fact that he can play a bit too is a bonus.

Unfortunately, League Two has exposed the fact that Cameron and Baldwin's defensive fundamentals are not very good, and it's not even really a point up for "debate" because 79 goals against tells its own brutal story. Of course it's not all their fault, but it doesn't reflect well on two players who are supposed to be our defensive kingpins. I do actually think they're both good footballers who could perhaps contribute to the team in other ways, but we can't rely on them (together) as the cornerstone of our defence going into next season.

One thing I would say is that, if we sign a couple of 'proper' central defenders/stoppers, either Cameron or Baldwin could benefit from playing alongside such a player or players, not just in the sense of learning from example, but by having someone there who can do the job they patently cannot, thereby covering their weaknesses and highlighting their strengths.

[SmiffyPie]

There's a lot of nonsense talked - mostly in defence of Baldwin and Cameron - about them being compatible with the way the club wants to play, effectively excusing their failings by presenting a false dichotomy between them and the 'rugged, horrible, 6ft 5in power house' who can't pass for toffee. The implication being that any supporter who calls out the defensive failings of Kyle and Aden is somehow a neanderthal harking back to a bygone age and type of centre-half.

The truth is, even if you become the best team on the planet in terms of controlling possession, you're never going to have 100% of it, and when you haven't got the ball, you need players who can take up the correct defensive positions, concentrate, be aggressive, head the ball consistently, and tackle. In other words, you need some players whose primary ability is defensive, and the idea is to create a balance between that type of player and those who can be more comfortable and creative with the ball at their feet.

It's true that a good defender doesn't have to be huge, or a 'clogger' - Lisandro Martinez at Manchester United is a great example of a comparatively small defender who can also play - but his defensive fundamentals and instincts are excellent. He recognises that as a centre-half his primary job in the team is to destroy and win the ball back, and the fact that he can play a bit too is a bonus.

Unfortunately, League Two has exposed the fact that Cameron and Baldwin's defensive fundamentals are not very good, and it's not even really a point up for "debate" because 79 goals against tells its own brutal story. Of course it's not all their fault, but it doesn't reflect well on two players who are supposed to be our defensive kingpins. I do actually think they're both good footballers who could perhaps contribute to the team in other ways, but we can't rely on them (together) as the cornerstone of our defence going into next season.

One thing I would say is that, if we sign a couple of 'proper' central defenders/stoppers, either Cameron or Baldwin could benefit from playing alongside such a player or players, not just in the sense of learning from example, but by having someone there who can do the job they patently cannot, thereby covering their weaknesses and highlighting their strengths.

Agree completely and said the same many times.