School Praying Ban Backed

[baggieal]

Totally agree the Head’s decision was backed about a praying ban. Religion in my view unless a faith school should be kept out of education.

Surely this person if they wanted to pray could have done this at lunch break in a quiet spot or when going for a number 2!

[Omegstrat6]

Totally agree the Head’s decision was backed about a praying ban. Religion in my view unless a faith school should be kept out of education.

Surely this person if they wanted to pray could have done this at lunch break in a quiet spot or when going for a number 2!

My understanding is that for devout followers of Islam there are 5 important prayer times and that to miss any of them is regarded as a serious lapse of faith. That said, there are only two that may impact on normal school times. The first, Dhuhr, is just after noon and so could fall during a normal lunch hour. The second, Asr, is normally late afternoon. All prayer times are dictated by the position of the sun so will change slightly through the year. For today, as example, Dhuhr falls at 12:53 and Asr at 16:43. This means that Asr falls outside of school times.

Depending on the strictness of the individual's faith there may be some compromise and flexibility so that prayer times can be as close as possible to these times rather than exact. In these cases-where only Dhuhr may apply-I personally don't see why such a mid-day prayer cannot be accomodated, especially if there is a large Muslim population in the school. If they are that strict (which would mean the children would have to also be up to pray just before sunrise for Fajr as well as still be up for Isha at around 10pm) then, yes, attending a Faith school should be the option.

Personally, however, I dislike any kind of Faith School as I believe they can too easily only serve to indoctrinate and encourage closed minds and discrimination. Religion, to me at least, is like politics and whilst not instilling hatred, we should encourage our children to learn about various forms of it and challenge beliefs where needed rather than follow them blindly.

[kettering_baggie]

There should be no religious ‘education’ in schools, none at all, a complete waste of time. Fairy tales are for the nursery.

[mickd1961]

My understanding is that for devout followers of Islam there are 5 important prayer times and that to miss any of them is regarded as a serious lapse of faith. That said, there are only two that may impact on normal school times. The first, Dhuhr, is just after noon and so could fall during a normal lunch hour. The second, Asr, is normally late afternoon. All prayer times are dictated by the position of the sun so will change slightly through the year. For today, as example, Dhuhr falls at 12:53 and Asr at 16:43. This means that Asr falls outside of school times.

Depending on the strictness of the individual's faith there may be some compromise and flexibility so that prayer times can be as close as possible to these times rather than exact. In these cases-where only Dhuhr may apply-I personally don't see why such a mid-day prayer cannot be accomodated, especially if there is a large Muslim population in the school. If they are that strict (which would mean the children would have to also be up to pray just before sunrise for Fajr as well as still be up for Isha at around 10pm) then, yes, attending a Faith school should be the option.

Personally, however, I dislike any kind of Faith School as I believe they can too easily only serve to indoctrinate and encourage closed minds and discrimination. Religion, to me at least, is like politics and whilst not instilling hatred, we should encourage our children to learn about various forms of it and challenge beliefs where needed rather than follow them blindly.

The parent and child knew the school rules before the girl joined which should make this a non story.

But it won’t.

Get ready for the masses ranks of zealots and nutters at the school gates holding placards etc.

I give this courageous head teacher a month before she’s forced out.

[baggieal]

The parent and child knew the school rules before the girl joined which should make this a non story.

But it won’t.

Get ready for the masses ranks of zealots and nutters at the school gates holding placards etc.

I give this courageous head teacher a month before she’s forced out.

The Head should be commended!

[Omegstrat6]

Tbh, I think that a school should not ban pupils prayer times merely as a point of principle but that they should only accommodate such a request if they can make the necessary "reasonable" adjustments. If they cannot then they can then refuse with an appropriate explanation to support that decision and the parents would have no recourse to complain.


Just because a pupil or parent demands something should not mean the school has to give in-"I want doesn't get" as I'm sure many of us of a certain generation were told as kids. Sadly it seems too many these days have an over exaggerated sense of self entitlement and seem to think they have a "right" to whatever they want. Recent surveys amongst teachers show just how much time they now spend on dealing with both pupils and parents who seem to think school rules do not apply to them and theirs whether this is around issues of religion, gender self identification, mobile phones or skirt lengths.

As for religion in schools, I know it may be a bit tricky, but I actually think that it is important that all pupils have a broad understanding of the different faiths but that such teaching is designed not to favour any one particular religion and is careful to be respectful so as not to provoke discrimination or hate. That said, however, I also believe that it is important to recognize that whilst the tenets of most religions encourage believers to lead a "good" life and help others, there are also some aspects and interpretations that are much less salubrious and can be anti-abortion, mysogynistic, patriarchal or homophobic for example. Surely, with older pupils especially, these aspects should be debated just as they might be expected to debate historical events and decisions. If parents or pupils of any faith find this heresy then they should leave and not have any recourse to complain.

[kettering_baggie]

It seems to me that it is nonsensical to ‘teach’ religion in schools. On one hand they teach science and then, by going into religion, effectively contradict the science by saying that fairy stories should be believed! Absurd, well that’s my view.

As for this recent case, legal aid was given to the pupil concerned, well over £150,000 apparently. What an utter waste of taxpayers money.

[Grand Wazoo]

It seems to me that it is nonsensical to ‘teach’ religion in schools. On one hand they teach science and then, by going into religion, effectively contradict the science by saying that fairy stories should be believed! Absurd, well that’s my view.

As for this recent case, legal aid was given to the pupil concerned, well over £150,000 apparently. What an utter waste of taxpayers money.

There are an awful lot of eminent scientists who now have changed their opinion and subscribe to a creator of the universe. Calling it fairy stories is a rather narrow minded and arrogant statement, in my opinion. But we will all find out for sure eventually. If your theory is correct you ain't gonna know that you were correct. But if you are wrong as I believe you are then you are in for a shock.

[mickd1961]

There are an awful lot of eminent scientists who now have changed their opinion and subscribe to a creator of the universe. Calling it fairy stories is a rather narrow minded and arrogant statement, in my opinion. But we will all find out for sure eventually. If your theory is correct you ain't gonna know that you were correct. But if you are wrong as I believe you are then you are in for a shock.

Who are these “eminent scientists” then?

I’d be interested to see the list of them?

Thanks in advance.

[Omegstrat6]

I'm sort of torn between atheism and agnosticism myself. Certainly I'm no fan of any "organised" religion as these have mostly been used over the centuries by the few to exploit and exert power over others but whilst I'll happily go along with a lot of what Hitchens says, I'm also mindful both that empiricism and science cannot explain everything and that faiths/ beliefs can bring a measure of comfort to some.

As for teaching religion in schools, the reason I think it is important is because whilst the importance and influence of the Christian churches may have waned greatly in Britain, religious beliefs are still highly relevant to other countries. These beliefs -especially extremist ones-can impact not only on the populations of these countries themselves but also into the wider world. Islamic extremism is the obvious example of religious zealoty posing a threat but the resurgence of neo-conservative Christian fundamentalism in the US is also worrying.

Just because religious beliefs are just that-beliefs-and cannot be scientifically substantiated doesn't mean that they don't still exert enormous influence over many and because of this, I believe children should be at least taught the basics of the major beliefs in order to gain some understanding. With 3.9 million identifying as Muslims , just over one million as Hindu, 520,000 as Sikh, 287,000 as Jewish and 248,000 as Buddhist in the UK surely it can be only a good thing for children to have a better understanding of the other religions in this country beside Christianity?

An appreciation of the differences between different branches of these individual religions (e.g. Sunni, Shi'ah and Khawarij within Islam or Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox within Christianity) might also help as too they often are lumped together through ignorance. The different branches of Islam for example are not in agreement on many issues just as the Catholics clashed with the Protestants in Europe for centuries and not all Muslims are Islamic extremists anymore than all Jews are ardent Zionists or all Christians bible thumping fundamentalists. Ignorance of the differences often helps fuel Islamophobia or anti-Semitism for example so anything that can be done to help prevent this and encourage a better understanding is surely worthwhile?