Making Mistakes vs Tactical Instruction

[LeftPeg_Pie]

Aden Baldwin.

Both managers have now asked him to play as the middle CB. In possession, he’s being asked to primarily play to the RCB, LCB or DM. Or, if he has opportunity, progress the ball himself and then bring one of the midfield four into play by passing forward depending on the shape of the opposition.

Out of possession, he’s being asked to sweep up the length and breadth of the back line. When he picks the ball up, he’s either trying to move forward or has his outlet ball of going home to the GK, very rarely does he play the ball out for a throw in or dump it into a channel.

Tonight’s first goal is indicative of the title issue. His positioning is good. Looks for his options in front of him (two but there’s a Stockport player splitting them so either pass has an element of risk). He’s obviously going to play it back (right decision). Slips. Goal.

Plenty of other examples but they’re mainly variations on the above. Ultimately, where does the blame lie?

Personally, I think it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other (maybe slightly weighted toward tactical instruction).

Baldwin is making mistakes because he’s being asked to do very specific things in the singularly most important position in our tactical method. If he was doing his role expertly, he wouldn’t be playing in League Two.

I really think there’s a player in there, but he needs to be given a better tactical framework.

[BJPIE]

Baldwins first touch for the opener was a good one and saw him take the ball past Wooton. He's then looking for options. Nemane could of made a run beyond the full back for Baldwin to play the ball in behind as they had pressed quite high. But, thats not how we play (which is bollox) there is never anything wrong with a ball in behind that does two things. Relieves pressure and causes their defenders to turn.
Because of our insistence on retaining possession he gets his feet in a mess and slips. Not great defending and it happens too often but until we cease this obsession with having possession it will continue no matter who the defenders are. Having possession hasnt altered how many goal attempts we give teams.

[queenslandpie]

So broadly because he is being asked to do too much he keeps slipping over? But yes as has been mused a million times on this board finding ball playing defenders in league 2 is no mean feat.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

So broadly because he is being asked to do too much he keeps slipping over? But yes as has been mused a million times on this board finding ball playing defenders in league 2 is no mean feat.

His slipping is more likely to be the fact that his mind is muddled. He knows he need to keep possession, but he also knows he's being closed down. If he has no options in front of him, he either needs to make a turn (whilst under pressure hence a slip) or make a blind pass, hence the under hit pass backs we tend to do. I've said before, the loss of Palmer to take the ball from the defenders mean they're being asked to do a job they aren't quite capable of doing leaving the keeper exposed. If Palmer loses the ball, there are defenders covering.

Don't get me wrong, we still made mistakes with Palmer in the team but we didn't make as many

[kill_the_drum]

It’s certainly a consequence of how we play, but so is the amount of goals we’ve scored.
We must be the highest scoring team to ever finish in the bottom half of a table!
After the goal went in everyone around me was berating him for not just clearing it.
The problem is his decision making was right. Back to the keeper was the best option, he just slipped over. My argument is that if he should be emptying that ball whenever he’s in that situation, then we can’t play the football that we do.
This style of play has the same risk/reward at any level, and you see the same issues; defenders slipping, keepers gifting the ball etc.
Spurs and Villa are two teams to adopt this system. Both are playing out from the back with an extremely high line. Overall they’re playing great football and are reaping the rewards. However, when they get it wrong it looks awful. Spurs got hammered by Newcastle last Saturday and you’d have thought our back line was playing for them.
The problem we’ve got is we’re too soft out of possession. Mistakes constantly get punished as we just can’t recover from them.
The only answer I can see is we need better players. Simple as that!

[Togtastic]

The 'possession model' can be and has been for Notts, effective up to a point. We are being punished more severely at this level whilst probably making no more mistakes than last season. Some players seem institutionlised into going backwards, ignoring the defenders, Bostock is in my eyes the most guilty in this. It was no coincidence that the two goals were created when he had left the field, by Robertson's desire to play forward for the first and follow his pass for the second.
That said what you do out of possession is equally if not more important than in possession and despite our world beating possession stats we have some real deficiencies without the ball. I will highlight Brindley because i think he could be decent if he wanted to but he has been on holiday since he signed his two year contract.
Remember he is a defender and then watch his movement for their 4th, he isn't marking anyone, he can see Nemane is as high as he is with space behind them, what does he do, does he drop to defend the space , No he continues ball watching whilst their guy runs in behind.
Their 5th isn't entirely his fault but Randall is on his own and he comes out at a trot and stands like a lemon.
You can argue luck wasn't on our side, both penalties seemed harsh but defending like we do despite having the ball for as long as we do is the biggest problem Maynard has to overcome.

[Notts78]

Aden Baldwin.

Both managers have now asked him to play as the middle CB. In possession, he’s being asked to primarily play to the RCB, LCB or DM. Or, if he has opportunity, progress the ball himself and then bring one of the midfield four into play by passing forward depending on the shape of the opposition.

Out of possession, he’s being asked to sweep up the length and breadth of the back line. When he picks the ball up, he’s either trying to move forward or has his outlet ball of going home to the GK, very rarely does he play the ball out for a throw in or dump it into a channel.

Tonight’s first goal is indicative of the title issue. His positioning is good. Looks for his options in front of him (two but there’s a Stockport player splitting them so either pass has an element of risk). He’s obviously going to play it back (right decision). Slips. Goal.

Plenty of other examples but they’re mainly variations on the above. Ultimately, where does the blame lie?

Personally, I think it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other (maybe slightly weighted toward tactical instruction).

Baldwin is making mistakes because he’s being asked to do very specific things in the singularly most important position in our tactical method. If he was doing his role expertly, he wouldn’t be playing in League Two.

I really think there’s a player in there, but he needs to be given a better tactical framework.

Wearing appropriate footwear would be a start… the number of ridiculous slips is nothing to do with any of the (fair) points you raise. I have never seen a footballer slip as much as he does. It’s like he is wearing trainers on a slick/wet surface wear any sudden change of direction results in him slipping.

[slack_pie]

Baldwin was at fault for the fourth too and that had nothing to do with tactical instructions. He simply didn't try hard enough to stop their player scoring. You can't coach that out of players, the same way you wouldn't be able to coach desire and aggression out of a player like Roy Keane.

But yes, our tactical approach is also to blame, but I can't see that changing.

[1955pie]

So broadly because he is being asked to do too much he keeps slipping over? But yes as has been mused a million times on this board finding ball playing defenders in league 2 is no mean feat.

That is why they won’t come cheap. The club have to grasp this nettle. A sizeable fee and a good wage.
Of course they can always do what has been rumoured on the Baldwin thread and offer him another contract.
Hmmmm … I wonder which way they will go?

[Smigpie]

When Stockport attacked us they did so in numbers and at pace overwhelming us and when we attacked them it took forever allowing them to canter back with 11 men behind the ball, not rocket science. All the top teams did the same hence they are top teams whilst we continue to adapt our possession football but sadly across the pitch, might be controversial but the facts don’t lie.