You'll see me in court

[swaledale]

Except in 1966!

Beyond that I think I agree with you, but are there not ‘fixed lines’ drawn onto the screen in Stockley Park? I thought that was the point and that Jota’s goal, for instance, against Fulham on Sunday was given because the ‘lines’ actually touched.

As regards my comparison with photo finishes in athletics, Swale. With equal respect I can’t see the difference. Yes one is measuring the finish and the other is measuring something more like the beginning of a ‘race’ between defender and attacker but, technology wise, they are very much the same in that they are both measuring who is in front by the tiniest of margins at a specific moment.

The difference rA is that with athletics, the finishing line is a fixed point and is always the same point. Its essentially the same as judging whether a ball has crossed a painted line on the pitch, it either has or it hasn't. Whereas with offside it can be anywhere in the defending teams half and the line is drawn often from what I've seen several times by the VAR operators in order to reach a conclusion. Frankly its nonsense, under the laws of the game offside was not meant to be scrutinised to this extent, and for other offences surely it should just be used to pick up an incident where the ref has missed it? Then there's the distorting effect of slowing down tackles et c. its simply ruining the spontneity of the game IMO>

[ramAnag]

The difference rA is that with athletics, the finishing line is a fixed point and is always the same point. Its essentially the same as judging whether a ball has crossed a painted line on the pitch, it either has or it hasn't. Whereas with offside it can be anywhere in the defending teams half and the line is drawn often from what I've seen several times by the VAR operators in order to reach a conclusion. Frankly its nonsense, under the laws of the game offside was not meant to be scrutinised to this extent, and for other offences surely it should just be used to pick up an incident where the ref has missed it? Then there's the distorting effect of slowing down tackles et c. its simply ruining the spontneity of the game IMO>

Sorry, we’ll have to agree to differ on the athletics comparison. Agree about it ruining the spontaneity of the game but, as I’ve said, that’s what we (football fans) have to decide on. Do we want to increase the chances of making the correct decision or do we want to retain the spontaneous joy of goals being given without the current scrutiny? The two are not necessarily compatible but I suspect it is going to prove difficult to put the genie back in the bottle.

[Ramshank72]

it is going to prove difficult to put the genie back in the bottle.

That's the problem, the genie is worth £££.

[swaledale]

Sorry, we’ll have to agree to differ on the athletics comparison. Agree about it ruining the spontaneity of the game but, as I’ve said, that’s what we (football fans) have to decide on. Do we want to increase the chances of making the correct decision or do we want to retain the spontaneous joy of goals being given without the current scrutiny? The two are not necessarily compatible but I suspect it is going to prove difficult to put the genie back in the bottle.

I'm sorry to, that you don't seem to understand the difference between a camera aligned with a clear painted line that records in real time a body passing a fixed point and a person in a room remote from the pitch using a video from a number of different cameras, with no actual line, fiddling about and drawing lines using whatever technology to determine whther a minute part of a players body is in front of the other player at the time the ball was played.

In athletics, there is one view, one angle and a fixed "real" finishing line and all the people are moving in one direction. Its not subjective, its a photograph of when the runners break the beam at the exact time they do so.

In VAR, there are multiple cameras with different angle of view on the incident, at least two players moving often in different directions, a judgement as to when the ball the player received was played against a line drawn by the VAR operator. In the latter case there are multiple variables and many ways in which the image can be both manipulated and interpreted. If it was like athletics, the decision would be almost instant, not take several minutes.