NS6 Row H Seat 136 Racist abuse

[just_a_goal]

The chap sat behind me in this (or very close) to this seat made mine and my sons day a misery today.
The whole game slating and hurling racist abuse at not just Crewe's black players but ours as well.
Everytime any black player got near or on the ball he raised his voice and shouted abuse.
I'm not going to repeat on here some of the things I heard but to say I was ashamed is an understatement. I didnt want to get into a confrontation about this with him as I had my young son with me.
Even my lad said he was getting fed up with him, 2 hours of targetted abuse really is not on.

Does anyone on here sit near this area and know or heard him?

[millertop]

Understandable you don't want a confrontation but maybe you could have mentioned it to a steward at half time

[jolly_roger]

The chap sat behind me in this (or very close) to this seat made mine and my sons day a misery today.
The whole game slating and hurling racist abuse at not just Crewe's black players but ours as well.
Everytime any black player got near or on the ball he raised his voice and shouted abuse.
I'm not going to repeat on here some of the things I heard but to say I was ashamed is an understatement. I didnt want to get into a confrontation about this with him as I had my young son with me.
Even my lad said he was getting fed up with him, 2 hours of targetted abuse really is not on.

Does anyone on here sit near this area and know or heard him?

Bloke near me continuously called Revell a useless **** all through the match.

But there's a difference isn't there.

(is there?)

[gramiller1959]

the one that shouted "ya black b@stard" ?



and ime in nth4

[crashbang]

The chap sat behind me in this (or very close) to this seat made mine and my sons day a misery today.
The whole game slating and hurling racist abuse at not just Crewe's black players but ours as well.
Everytime any black player got near or on the ball he raised his voice and shouted abuse.
I'm not going to repeat on here some of the things I heard but to say I was ashamed is an understatement. I didnt want to get into a confrontation about this with him as I had my young son with me.
Even my lad said he was getting fed up with him, 2 hours of targetted abuse really is not on.

Does anyone on here sit near this area and know or heard him?




Inform the club with seat number. tell them the reason. They will monitor with cctv for evidence.

[jolly_roger]

Yeah, just like they caught the Crewe fan setting off the flares.

Yeah right.

[Adventus2012]

Report it to the club and let them investigate it there is CCTV plus they may be able to trace who purchased the ticket for that seat.You must be absolutely certain that the offender was definitely sat in the seat you are quoting though!!

Morons like the one you encountered today, have no place in football, let alone the New York Stadium

Good luck!!

[millertop]

Yeah, just like they caught the Crewe fan setting off the flares.

Yeah right.

Didn't they escort one out?

[jolly_roger]

Yes.

They attempted to throw one or more out but met with opposition, so they gave up, then one moron decided to jump on the back of a retreating steward and he was the one they eventually dragged out.

Meanwhile PC Plod looked out through the window of the police box and tucked into sarnies and hot coffee.

[millertop]

Yes.

They attempted to throw one or more out but met with opposition, so they gave up, then one moron decided to jump on the back of a retreating steward and he was the one they eventually dragged out.

Meanwhile PC Plod looked out through the window of the police box and tucked into sarnies and hot coffee.

XD he was having a right rant at the steward by the looks

[jolly_roger]

Every village has its idiot.

[crashbang]

Every village has its idiot.



Which village are you from Jolly?

[ilikecarling]

so should everyone who calls steve evans a fat scottish kent be done on racist grounds, or discrimination?

probably neither as hes white, get a grip you div.

[shiregreenmillers]

so should everyone who calls steve evans a fat scottish kent be done on racist grounds, or discrimination?

probably neither as hes white, get a grip you div.But that's the truth

[crashbang]

WHY Don't they go to the front of the ground

and call them black b******** to their face, or meet them outside the ground?]
It happened with a boxer, till he turned up outside their house. - view external link (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/mar/12/english-boxer-curtis-woodhouse-twitter-troll)

[ilikecarling]

call a steward a kent, they **** it, FACT.

[shiregreenmillers]

call a steward a kent, they **** it, FACT.Crash is a steward i bet you won't say that to his face ...

[crashbang]

call a steward a kent, they **** it, FACT.Crash is a steward i bet you won't say that to his face ...[/quote]




No he's not :D

[ilikecarling]

not any more :blue:

think i might have XD

[WorcestershireMiller]

I sit just a few rows down and i thought i had heard some abuse was not sure.

If you complain to the club every seat will have a and address of the person buying, but i know these tickets can be transferable.

But this is the first ive heard this since the Ginger haired Racist Bigoted Lady was dragged out when we are at Millmoor Versus Wednesday.

I have the anti Ben Pringle brigade (2 old folks) on the end of my row, its funny when Pringle comes over to take a corner they give him praise, but when Pringle looses the ball, its not fit to wear thwe shirt, or they could do better LOL

[jolly_roger]

Every village has its idiot.



Which village are you from Jolly?[/quote]

Same as you Crash...S****horpe

[crashbang]

Every village has its idiot.



Which village are you from Jolly?[/quote]

Same as you Crash...S****horpe.[/quote]





You that black kid with the attitude?

[MoorlandMiller]

At the Bradford game we had a group of lads behind us who continually abused the Bradford players, inside the programme Bradford had a mobile number you could report abuse to, I got as far as putting the number in my phone, the main offender moved places at half time and I didn't want to report the wrong seat but I came so close to sending the block of seats. Maybe this anonymous system could be adopted by us too.

[jolly_roger]

Every village has its idiot.



Which village are you from Jolly?[/quote]

Same as you Crash...S****horpe.[/quote]





You that black kid with the attitude?[/quote]

Damn, was it the dreadlocks that gave me away?.

[Corner]

At the Bradford game we had a group of lads behind us who continually abused the Bradford players, inside the programme Bradford had a mobile number you could report abuse to, I got as far as putting the number in my phone, the main offender moved places at half time and I didn't want to report the wrong seat but I came so close to sending the block of seats. Maybe this anonymous system could be adopted by us too.

Mmm! I'm sure we used to have something like that, but I've just flicked through today's programme & can't see anything.

[rea65]

For any decent person the original post makes you feel a bit sick,
Others look for a sarcastic or cynical response to mimic the Daily Express.

[ZIPPY64]

At the Bradford game we had a group of lads behind us who continually abused the Bradford players, inside the programme Bradford had a mobile number you could report abuse to, I got as far as putting the number in my phone, the main offender moved places at half time and I didn't want to report the wrong seat but I came so close to sending the block of seats. Maybe this anonymous system could be adopted by us too.

Mmm! I'm sure we used to have something like that, but I've just flicked through today's programme & can't see anything.[/quote]

There is Corner, it's on page 3 just underneath the small photo...titled Report Hotline.

[paula_hurst]

Every village has its idiot.

That doesn't condone anyone's behaviour. If true, this is disgusting.

[jolly_roger]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

Or are we all pre-conditioned into being over concerned with racist or homophobic abuse?

To be honest, disgusting or not I mentally yawn when I see yet another thread about racist remarks.

[John2]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoid making such jokes because of what a terrible thing it would be to raise something so abysmal, and be offensive with it.

Racism is still comm

[Deepmidwinter]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoid making such jokes because of what a terrible thing it would be to raise something so abysmal, and

[jolly_roger]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoid making such jokes because of what a terrible th

[kempo]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoi

[BensDad]

It surprises me that the powers that be at the Millers don't make more of the links the club has to Arthur Wharton. The first professional black player, 5 years at Rotherham but never a mention. Some clubs would be trumpeting association with such a landmark figure of the game, but hardly anyone has heard if him. Check out his entry on Wikipedia or listen to his entry on Radio 4's Great Lives. He was a fascinating man who really went through it because if his colour and his penchant for the ladies!

[brassgnat]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - un

[timebomb]

It surprises me that the powers that be at the Millers don't make more of the links the club has to Arthur Wharton. The first professional black player, 5 years at Rotherham but never a mention. Some clubs would be trumpeting association with such a landmark figure of the game, but hardly anyone has heard if him. Check out his entry on Wikipedia or listen to his entry on Radio 4's Great Lives. He was a fascinating man who really went through it because if his colour and his penchant for the ladies!
Their is some stuff about him in the council building along with some other memorabilia

[inhaler]

Contact Paul Davis on pdavis@rotherhamunited.net and report it to him there. They'll send a camera to watch him for 3 games. If he isn't racist in the next 3 home games, they'll forget it. Happened to me with a ****b4g sat behind me in the West stand. Reported him, they watched him, and dropped it after 3 games. Rubbish.

[crashbang]

It surprises me that the powers that be at the Millers don't make more of the links the club has to Arthur Wharton. The first professional black player, 5 years at Rotherham but never a mention. Some clubs would be trumpeting association with such a landmark figure of the game, but hardly anyone has heard if him. Check out his entry on Wikipedia or listen to his entry on Radio 4's Great Lives. He was a fascinating man who really went through it because if his colour and his penchant for the ladies!






Top post, I think he played at another club before ours, but he was our first black player.
His death and anonymity is shocking, he just disappeared with no recognition.

[crashbang]

His grave was given a headstone in 1997 after a campaign by anti-racism campaigners Football Unites, Racism Divides for recognition of Wharton's achievements.


Sad that is all he got

[millertop]

It surprises me that the powers that be at the Millers don't make more of the links the club has to Arthur Wharton. The first professional black player, 5 years at Rotherham but never a mention. Some clubs would be trumpeting association with such a landmark figure of the game, but hardly anyone has heard if him. Check out his entry on Wikipedia or listen to his entry on Radio 4's Great Lives. He was a fascinating man who really went through it because if his colour and his penchant for the ladies!
Their is some stuff about him in the council building along with some other memorabilia[/quote]

They could have posters made about him and put them up in the concourse, might educate some fans

[vespabri]

Every village has its idiot.



Which village are you from Jolly?[/quote] You really don"t do yourself any favours do you Crash.
I"m really trying to forget about your " Pet insurance " thread, but its as if you love the attention, good or bad...you revel in it don"t you.
Of all the members ive met i think there all cracking blokes...bar one!

[crashbang]

Every village has its idiot.



Which village are you from Jolly?[/quote] You really don"t do yourself any favours do you Crash.
I"m really trying to forget about your " Pet insurance " thread, but its as if you love the attention, good or bad...you revel in it don"t you.
Of all the members ive met i think there all cracking blokes...bar one![/quote]






Yes I must admit, Jolly was mortified after that post. He'll never be the same man again.
What was I thinking cracking a joke?

[vespabri]

Cracking sense of humour you have there pal.:blue: :blue: :blue:

[John2]

Mental yawning sets in again.

Is that it? No reasoned critique in response to my argument? A shame, but not a surprise.

[1960smiller]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoid making such jokes because of what a terrible thing it would be to raise something so abysmal, and

[shiregreenmillers]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoid making such jokes because of what a terrible thin

[John2]

I agree it's wrong but it a two way thing, it's used by some of the offended as a get out card ie. is cos I'm black you are picking on me.

It's a two way thing? As a white Englishman (lucky guess), you've been subjected to a lifetime of racist abuse and prejudice then? Don't be ridiculous.

I'm not even sure what you mean. A get out card? If someone calls somebody a black so-and-so... surely it is perfectly reasonable to cite this as racist abuse. If nobody ever gave racist abuse to others, no such 'card' would exist, although I've not seen any evidence to suggest such 'cards' are commonly brandished.

[shiregreenmillers]

I agree it's wrong but it a two way thing, it's used by some of the offended as a get out card ie. is cos I'm black you are picking on me.

It's a two way thing? As a white Englishman (lucky guess), you've been subjected to a lifetime of racist abuse and prejudice then? Don't be ridiculous.

I'm not even sure what you mean. A get out card? If someone calls somebody a black so-and-so... surely it is perfectly reasonable to cite this as racist abuse. If nobody ever gave racist abuse to others, no such 'card' would exist, although I've not seen any evidence to suggest such 'cards' are commonly brandished.[/quote]Your spot on john white english men never get racially abused..:/ :/ I love do gooders like you :( :(

[John2]

Your spot on john white english men never get racially abused..:/ :/ I love do gooders like you :( :(

Do you HONESTLY believe you have it remotely as bad as someone who is non-white? Honestly? Seriously?

Care to provide real life examples of the sort of piercing racism you are often subjected to?

Did you once get called a whitey and it is still a painful memory to this day? If you're so sensitive to such abuse (and I agree, lets end all racism)... maybe you should be more supportive of efforts to put an end to it?

In reality, you haven't got the faintest clue what its like to be subjected to real and deep rooted racial abuse, its laughable that you seem to think you do.

[shiregreenmillers]

Your spot on john white english men never get racially abused..:/ :/ I love do gooders like you :( :(

Do you HONESTLY believe you have it remotely as bad as someone who is non-white? Honestly? Seriously?

Care to provide real life examples of the sort of piercing racism you are often subjected to?

Did you once get called a whitey and it is still a painful memory to this day? If you're so sensitive to such abuse (and I agree, lets end all racism)... maybe you should be more supportive of efforts to put an end to it?

In reality, you haven't got the faintest clue what its like to be subjected to real and deep rooted racial abuse, its laughable that you seem to think you do.[/quote]And i suppose you have john .By the way hows your friend mr akhtar ..

[John2]

And i suppose you have john .

That's exactly my point. Correct, I can't say I know what its like to be subjected to racist abuse and neither can you.

[kentmillerman]

shire. John asked you a question. What has Mr Akhtar got to do with it. :blue:

[kempo]

I admire your perseverance john2 in trying to continue with reasoned argument because as you have found many times. its extremely difficult on here to have a discussion without being abused.

I dont think any of the points that you have made on this thread could be reasonably challenged.

[BigRotherhamFanMe]

But is it any worse than any other verbal abuse?

Like away fans calling Steve Evans a fat **** for example?

I agree that all verbal abuse should be clamped down on.

However yes, racist abuse is worse because of its appalling history and the consequences of racism in society.

Nobody has any control over the race they are born into, and historically it has been used to justify the most appalling atrocities in human history.

If you were a part of a group that had historically been subjected to such terrible treatments merely for the colour of your skin, it would be a lot more raw and personal to receive abuse targeted at you for this reason.

For example some people make sick 'dead baby' jokes. Imagine if somebody had lost a baby themselves - unless you're an awful human being you'd avoid making such jokes because of what a terrible thing it would be to raise something so abysmal, and

[John2]

So when JT abused Anton Ferdinand, do you think Anton was ridden with angst over the historically poor treatment of black people or do you think he pressed charges simply because he could?

Erm, what an awful example, Anton Ferdinand didn't press charges, it was a member of the public.

But even if he had, it wouldn't have been an unreasonable thing to do... given he was subjected to racist abuse and you don't have the faintest clue what that must feel like.



I would imagine that for more and more black people, their main experience of outright discrimination and fear of violence is something that either their grandparents told them about or something they read in a history book.

That's quite an imagination you've got, and fortunately for such abuse is something you'll only ever have to imagine, I suspect the reality is different - this thread was created beca

[SurferRosa]

John - Agree with you on this mate. Well done for trying, but you are wasting your time. Right that you tried though`. My experience in my 44 yrs on this planet is that people very rarely change their minds. If they hold a view at 21 years of age they tend to hold that view until the day they die, whether that's politics, religion, (or indeed football team allegence). Some of the older members of my own family are outragious racists even though my brother's wife is black and even though they think she is great !
Life is complicated, you love your family but some of the views they hold and things they say...jeepers !

[Deepmidwinter]

John - Agree with you on this mate. Well done for trying, but you are wasting your time. Right that you tried though`. My experience in my 44 yrs on this planet is that people very rarely change their minds. If they hold a view at 21 years of age they tend to hold that view until the day they die, whether that's politics, religion, (or indeed football team allegence). Some of the older members of my own family are outragious racists even though my brother's wife is black and even though they think she is great !
Life is complicated, you love your family but some of the views they hold and things they say...jeepers !

What a great post.

[fivetide]

You do find it with a lot of older people. Different generation isn't it? You only have to look at HSBW's thread last week about gay footballers to see an example of someone that has entrenched views.

However, racism isn't a one way street. There is too much put on white people to accept different cultures (IMHO) and not enough the other way around.

Do we need street signs in Urdu? No. Does that encourage integration? No. We don't need special organisations for different ethnic groups we should have a community group that is exactly that, a reflection of the community at large not one that separates by race or skin colour.

That said, anyone wanting to suddenly move to Harlem or Brixton? Because you know, racism is only a one way thing and people who live there have put up with more racist abuse than white folks meaning they would welcome you with open arms.

[John2]

However, racism isn't a one way street. There is too much put on white people to accept different cultures (IMHO) and not enough the other way around.

What are you suggesting has been 'put on' white people?

Integration isn't even close to being the same thing as racism. If I moved to America, stubbornly refusing to call football by the soccer and raised my kids to support England that wouldn't be racist.



Do we need street signs in Urdu? No.

This seems an odd point as I don't think it has ever has ever happened?


That said, anyone wanting to suddenly move to Harlem or Brixton? Because you know, racism is only a one way thing and people who live there have put up with more racist abuse than white folks meaning they would welcome you with open arms.

I don't understand this paragraph. And personally I think I'd enjoy li

[stormmiller]

That said, anyone wanting to suddenly move to Harlem or Brixton? Because you know, racism is only a one way thing and people who live there have put up with more racist abuse than white folks meaning they would welcome you with open arms.

I don't understand this paragraph. And personally I think I'd enjoy living in Harlem or Brixton.[/quote]Quite clearly you don't understand that paragraph but should you move to brixton you would after the first time you were put in hospital for going into a self imposed "asian only area"

[shiregreenmillers]

John i think you would make a good politician .. Am sure with people like you the asian and eastern european communities will thrive in this country .. As for you wanting to live in harlem or brixton just move mate am sure you would love it ..

[fivetide]

What are you suggesting has been 'put on' white people?

Easy. Google the number of church bells silenced by noise complaints you get millions of them including:

700-year-old church bells under investigation for noise pollution

By Plymouth Herald | Posted: September 25, 2013

All Saints Church told to silence its bell after noise complaints

By The Bristol Post | Posted: April 25, 2012

Complaints silence church bells for first time in 117 years
A parish council claims it has been forced to turn off its church bells for the first time in more than 100 years because of complaints about the noise - Daily Telegraph

Now Google how many times the Muslim Call to Prayer has been subject tot he same thing. There aren't any on the first page of results (and there are a lot less results too).

Why should the police need to pay for expensive translation services for British citizens? Why should all material be published in ten languages?

[John2]

[quote="stormmiller"[/quote]

Huh, Brixton is famed for its Afro-Carribean community, much like where I have chosen to live in Bristol - St Paul's is the Brixton of Bristol, my street is part of the St Paul's carnival, my neighbours are black (the predominant race in the area), my local pub's most popular drink is Red Stripe, food is Jerk kitchen and music is reggae. I love living here and I've never had any issues or been put in the hospital.

[LiAmOfRuFc]

Huh, Brixton is famed for its Afro-Carribean community, much like where I have chosen to live in Bristol - St Paul's is the Brixton of Bristol, my street is part of the St Paul's carnival, my neighbours are black (the predominant race in the area), my local pub's most popular drink is Red Stripe, food is Jerk kitchen and music is reggae. I love living here and I've never had any issues or been put in the hospital.

Can I just say this somewhat childish argument is not even really that relevant to the O/P, who has put a post up simply because he or she has witnessed racist abuse (which is a disgusting thing), and wants to get it sorted out so that nobody (including young kids) has to hear it at fut

[harpo88]

[quote="stormmiller"

Quite clearly you don't understand that paragraph but should you move to brixton you would after the first time you were put in hospital for going into a self imposed "asian only area"[/quote]

Another top example of writing something with forceful emotive language without the knowledge to back it up. For a start, Brixton has a much higher proportion of people from an African or Caribbean family background than an Asian background. Secondly, it's getting more and more popular especially with young professionals eager to live in a convenient vibrant location, sample a wider range of cultures and make the most of the good food, drink and entertainment venues on offer. Not saying there aren't problems there, because you get a few not very nice people in all areas of London, but those that there are aren't triggered by hatred of white people by Asians as you suggest. Not many people wanting to move

[John2]

Easy. Google the number of church bells silenced by noise complaints you get millions of them

There's a simple reason for that: church bells by their nature are a fixed volume which leads to legal wrangles as they have to be switched off completely if they're too loud. The call to prayer comes over a speaker so the volume can easily be turned down. I can't find any articles from the UK which suggest there is any sustained problem with excessive volume from the call to prayer. Can you?


Why should the police need to pay for expensive translation services for British citizens? Why should all material be published in ten languages? Does that encourage integration? No.

How does this mean you are being 'put on'? You seem to know a lot about the cost, do you have a breakdown of the figures? Are you being forced to read things in another language?

[quote="fivetide" date="16:51 o

[John2]

Can I just say this somewhat childish argument is not even really that relevant to the O/P, who has put a post up simply because he or she has witnessed racist abuse (which is a disgusting thing), and wants to get it sorted out so that nobody (including young kids) has to hear it at future matches. There is no superior form of abuse, and this 'I've witnessed more racism than you have' debate is not helping the O/P. It's a football forum guys, just chill out a little bit. A guys put up a thread to try and do a good thing, and it ends up with a bunch of grown men squabbling and trying to make each other look daft.

The subject has drifted from the O/P - but that's perfectly natural. I think an important debate is occurring in a reasonable place and there's no need to be so rigidly fixated on the initial subject which has already been covered.

[fivetide]

John,

can't be bothered with all the quotes - glad you supported the christian woman there.

Do you not think that your very reference shows how fearful employers are of upsetting these 'community groups'? Do you not think that is exactly the opposite of integration? Perhaps it might, just might be that these groups have got too much influence or perceived influence and instead of things like the M&S move or the whole BA thing these people should accept the way things are done in the country they live in?

Here's a nice one for you, just to highlight my point on racism being two way:

[quote]The British Crime Survey reveals that in 2004, 87,000 people who described themselves as black or minority ethnic (BME) had been victims of what they believed was a racially motivated crime. They had suffered 49,000 violent attacks, with 4,000 being wounded.

At the same time a staggering 92,000 white people also said that racism was the cause of an attack or crime they had suffered. The number o

[brassgnat]

The people coming back at John2, do you have problem with the behavior of person sitting in NS6 Row H seat 136 or not?

[shiregreenmillers]

NO if you go in the west stand that kind of thing happens all the time ..

[Tuftydivot]

Wrong platform for this issue.

[John2]

glad you supported the christian woman there.

I didn't and nor do I support the Muslim. However both were actions taken (or not taken) by the employer and for whatever reason and do not involve either of us being 'put on'. Also, the Christian and Muslim in question are individuals who do not represent their community. The Muslim bloke in the newsagents across from me sells me alcohol all the time, there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims who sell alcohol, many even drink. So these tales are largely an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.

[quote="fivetide"]Here's a nice one for you, just to highlight my point on racism being two way:

[quote]The British Crime Survey reveals that in 2004, 87,000 people who described themselves as black or minority ethnic (BME) had been victims of what they believed was a racially motivated crime. They had suffered 49,000 violent attacks, with 4,000 being wounded.

[Adventus2012]

When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion.

[fivetide]

these tales are largely an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.

When they set a precedent for the majority it isn't "irrelevant. Just because you don't agree with it and it undermines your argument doesn't mean you should be so dismissive.


H
Here's a nice one for you, provide the source where you got that quote from. Lets see if you can find it from somewhere reputable - remember, people make up things to support their argument. I'm skeptical its genuine, but open minded to being proven wrong - shouldn't be hard to do, I'm sure the Daily Mail would have run an article.

From, as it says, The British Crime Survey. The Guardian do you ok? Nice and lefty. I have a Daily Heil link too just to make you happy... - view external link (http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race)

[just_a_goal]

My original post was just to highlight vile racism at a footy ground from a certain individual.
I know this thread has moved on some what, but it seems that from what I originally posted is the norm.
:blue:

[BigRotherhamFanMe]

Erm, what an awful example, Anton Ferdinand didn't press charges, it was a member of the public.

But even if he had, it wouldn't have been an unreasonable thing to do... given he was subjected to racist abuse and you don't have the faintest clue what that must feel like.

Whether it was a poor example or not is pretty irrelevant, the point stands.



That's quite an imagination you've got, and fortunately for such abuse is something you'll only ever have to imagine, I suspect the reality is different - this thread was created because black players were being racially abused this Saturday just gone.

Its ironic you choose this thread to suggest that this discrimination is something black people 'read in the history books', when its been shown they can experience it at the NYS in the last week.

You're quite fond of making the point about whites not experiencing racism and therefore

[Archiemiller]

On a serious note guys,if "NS6 row H seat 136 is not a season ticket holder wonder which poor ****** will be sat in it at Crawley game...if hees not a M.M. member he,s going to be thinking why is everybody looking at me. OH S**T.!!!

[John2]

From, as it says, The British Crime Survey. The Guardian do you ok? Nice and lefty. I have a Daily Heil link too just to make you happy...

Thanks... except that link merely proves that the British Crime Survey exists (I knew that anyway) and doesn't in any way back up the statistics you provided.

[John2]

You're quite fond of making the point about whites not experiencing racism and therefore not understanding what it's like. The counter-argument is that neither do you, yet you're obsessed in making the point that racist abuse towards blacks is the worst sort of abuse imaginable, worse than any other.

No, you're right, I don't know, but I've heard accounts of friends who have been subjected to racist abuse, and witnessed vile racist abuse while possessing enough empathy to see it must be pretty damn unpleasant.



The point I'm making is that if racism is less prevalent than say 40 years ago, less black people will have a direct experience of it. So I'll ask you again, how long will it be before the 'rawness' becomes less raw or is this a permanent reminder of historic racism for white people?

You're looking at it the wrong way... I'd wager that all black people

[millertop]

This was about racist at the STADIUM, if you wanted to debate racist in general then you could have just started another thread.
Bit unfair to keep dragging it on this thread don't you think?

Post 75

[fivetide]

Thanks... except that link merely proves that the British Crime Survey exists (I knew that anyway) and doesn't in any way back up the statistics you provided.

Absolute rubbish John.

What a surprise you are dismissing it, having asked for a link for some data to back up my argument (and blow your "white folks don't get racist treatment" claims out of the water) you instantly dismiss it but provide no evidence of your own. That link clearly said half, yes half for those that didn't click on it, racist murders are committed AGAINST white people yet John here just keeps on claiming it isn't happening.

Today Ofsted, say that the fear of racism has meant white kids are suffering at school.

Until you wake up and realise this namby pamby attitude is making things worse not better we will never have a properly integrated society.

I despair. You think you are so right on when the truth is you are anything but. - [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/

[John2]

Absolute rubbish John.

What a surprise you are dismissing it

Here's why I'm saying it doesn't back up any of the statistics you provided.

You provided:


The British Crime Survey reveals that in 2004, 87,000 people who described themselves as black or minority ethnic (BME) had been victims of what they believed was a racially motivated crime. They had suffered 49,000 violent attacks, with 4,000 being wounded.

At the same time a staggering 92,000 white people also said that racism was the cause of an attack or crime they had suffered. The number of violent attacks against whites reached 77,000, while the number of white people who reported being wounded was five times the number of black and minority ethnic victims at 20,000.

The article provided:

[quote]The data, released under Freedom of Information legislation, shows that between 1995 and 2004 there have been 58 murders where the police consider a racial eleme

[Adventus2012]

To live anywhere in the world today and be against equality because of race or colour is like living in Alaska and being against snow.

William Faulkner

[millmoormagic]

To have 82, now 83 replies to a thread started by somebody who should've reported it in the first place, but still isn't sure about the seat number, is quite frankly ridiculous.

[brassgnat]

Also on the crime statistics thing, one or two points.
Given the record of institutional racism, are the police more inclined to talk up racial motive if the victim is white and culprit non-white?
When Whites are victims of racial crimes are the culprits always non-whites?
With all the stuff being whipped up against East European migrants, it could be they are often victims from white and non-white British born or here longer.
So the figures quoted far from necessarily mean White means British born victims of race crime.

[jolly_roger]

Well I must admit John2 has loads of stamina.

Still peddling away on his bike to fantasy island.

Without doubt the most deluded poster we have on this board.

Next destination...soundbite city

Mega yawn :zzz:

[fivetide]

Well I must admit John2 has loads of stamina.

Still peddling away on his bike to fantasy island.

Without doubt the most deluded poster we have on this board.

Next destination...soundbite city

Mega yawn :zzz:

Bang on Jolly.

When someone descends into pointless pedantry rather than seeing the bigger picture that is being presented to them you know you are never going to get them to even begin to accept a different point of view than the one they have.

Sadly, people like this who present themselves as "open minded" yet show themselves to be completely closed off to any other way of thinking. The immediate dismissal of anything that upsets John's picture of the world shows that.

The simple points are:

1. The abuse at the match was wrong. I remember challenging a bloke at Brentford because he kept shouting Irish slurs at Paul Dillion so I have done something about this myself

2. The multicultural, inter racial utopia John se

[shiregreenmillers]

Please john don't, do it :blue: :blue: :blue: :blue:

[John2]

When someone descends into pointless pedantry rather than seeing the bigger picture that is being presented to them you know you are never going to get them to even begin to accept a different point of view than the one they have.

Irony is not dead.



The multicultural, inter racial utopia John seems to think focusing on white on minority crime will create will never happen.

When have I EVER suggested focusing on white on minority crime? Crime is crime and should be treated in a colour blind manner.

I'm as concerned about the Ofsted article in the BBC link as you are, all groups should be fairly represented and treated, I'm not sure it proves a wider conspiracy against white people or proves white people have it "as bad", its an oversight which needs correcting rather than a racist and vitriolic attack against the white community.


[quote="fivetide" date="20:07 on 15 Jan

[walter10]

I will say that every black person in the UK will have first hand experience of racism whether it be verbal or physical abuse or having career development or employment chances blocked off to them.

Verbal abuse and, to an extent, physical assault is not the issue.

[Adventus2012]

Playing devils advocate here, but couldn't this association be classed as racist??

It is not inclusive of all employees is it?

Is it racist or not?

I await being educated!

See link>>>>>>>> - view external link (www.nbpa.co.uk)

[walter10]

Adventus - read the constitution (not just the headline) and tell us what you think.

[Adventus2012]

Walter, I think the NBPA it is NOT racist and actually aims to promote good race relations in the police service and the wider communities in the UK.

But I can see how uninformed people may misinterpret its purpose.