Additional Income ????

[jwess]

As season ticket holders, except for those in the Centenary Bar who paid an extra 25% this season, supporters have enjoyed "rise free" admissions for the last three seasons.
While we accept this gesture from the club any treasurer of any Club will advise that rather than hold the prices, a small rise of say A£10.00
(approx. 50p per game) per year would have been more acceptable than one of say A£40.00 when the prices are increased.
I also feel that the club should look at their generosity in handing out Complimentary Tickets.
Twice this season my mate and I have been about to pay at the gate when we were EACH handed two tickets, and on another occasion we were offered single tickets from three other individuals.
So, how many "freebies" are issued on match days ...I would hazard a guess that with players from both teams and the coaches etc. all receiving say four each the the figure must be around the around the 150 mark.
My nephew plays for a Premier League Club and he is given two bo

[steviex]

[quote="jwess" admissions for the last three seasons.
While we accept this gesture from the club any treasurer of any Club will advise that rather than hold the prices, a small rise of say Ai10.00
(approx. 50p per game) per year would have been more acceptable than one of say Ai40.00 when the prices are increased.
I also feel that the club should look at their generosity in handing out Complimentary Tickets.
Twice this season my mate and I have been about to pay at the gate when we were EACH handed two tickets, and on another occasion we were offered single tickets from three other individuals.
So, how many "freebies" are issued on match days ...I would hazard a guess that with players from both teams and the coaches etc. all receiving say four each the the figure must be around the around the 150 mark.
My nephew plays for a

[Wellup4it]

I would have thought that a rise of £40-45 would strike the right balance if we also charged for the first cup game. Also increase concessionary age from 60 to 65.

[Sup3rw3ll]

do most people not go for the early bird prices which are further reduced again on the already frozen standard prices ?

Do you know who was it that handed the free tickets to you, and which gate were you entering?

[sieb1886]

I think you're missing jwess's point a wee bit steviex. My view (and his I think), is had the club put a tenner on season tickets for the past 3 seasons, revenue would've upped 75-100K with no reaction from fans. However, if there's now a rise of 40-50 quid that's a different argument, and some will jump ship IMO.
I believe our board do many things right, but freezing prices for 3 seasons is seriously flawed. We've had a core season ticket support of around 3-4,000 these past 4 years, so did the board think we'd fekk off if the price went up a tenner or so a season?

[Wellup4it]

I think you're missing jwess's point a wee bit steviex. My view (and his I think), is had the club put a tenner on season tickets for the past 3 seasons, revenue would've upped 75-100K with no reaction from fans. However, if there's now a rise of 40-50 quid that's a different argument, and some will jump ship IMO.
I believe our board do many things right, but freezing prices for 3 seasons is seriously flawed.

Irrespective of what has happened in the past few seasons, and don't forget there's been a recession during which most folk's wages have been frozen or cut, we are where we are. The past is history.

Going forward, wages have now stabilised or are beginning to increase. What is the club to do about season ticket prices? No increase, 10% hike or more? That is the question facing our Board of Directors.

[Sup3rw3ll]

i understand the idea behind increase season tickets, but this is not going to cure the problem. Yes, increases to keep in touch with inflation would have been ideal. But, i think still a risky idea during the bad times of 2010, 2011 when things were very rough.

What must be done is to be more creative and look for NEW money and not increase the existing income. Core fans only have a finite disposal and even a 30% increase (~£100) wouldn't fix this long term. By fixing the product league wide and being more competitive, you have something more people who are not motherwell fans would want to watch. As such you have more "eyes" to advertise too and commercial opportunities. This is where the real money comes from... business. they have more money than any group of fans would have.

I also think that for the remainder of the season (except celtic >;) ) an away ticket gets you two kids in free, just like the cooper. I'd rather have a free kid on a seat than fresh air. At least they m

[jwess]

Thanks to SIEB 1886. That was my point which I obviously did not make clear.
The gate we use is adjacent to the gate for season and complimentary tickets holders.
No one identified who had given them the comps. but where we ended up sitting on each occasion was amongst 'Well fans not amongst visiting supporters,so I can only assume that they came from our own allocation.

[steviex]

I think you're missing jwess's point a wee bit steviex. My view (and his I think), is had the club put a tenner on season tickets for the past 3 seasons, revenue would've upped 75-100K with no reaction from fans. However, if there's now a rise of 40-50 quid that's a different argument, and some will jump ship IMO.
I believe our board do many things right, but freezing prices for 3 seasons is seriously flawed. We've had a core season ticket support of around 3-4,000 these past 4 years, so did the board think we'd fekk off if the price went up a tenner or so a season?

Fair Point...

[steviex]

[quote="Sup3rw3ll"]i understand the idea behind increase season tickets, but this is not going to cure the problem. Yes, increases to keep in touch with inflation would have been ideal. But, i think still a risky idea during the bad times of 2010, 2011 when things were very rough.

What must be done is to be more creative and look for NEW money and not increase the existing income. Core fans only have a finite disposal and even a 30% increase (~AA?100) wouldn't fix this long term. By fixing the product league wide and being more competitive, you have something more people who are not motherwell fans would want to watch. As such you have more "eyes" to advertise too and commercial opportunities. This is where the real money comes from... business. they have more money than any group of fans would have.

I also think that for the remainder of the season (except celtic >;) ) an away ticket gets you two kids in free, just like the cooper. I'd rather have a f

[steviex]

do most people not go for the early bird prices which are further reduced again on the already frozen standard prices ?

Do you know who was it that handed the free tickets to you, and which gate were you entering?

I think the early bird price saved me £10. A good gesture by the club but we need to be a bit more hard nosed. Our fluffy generous approach is doing Fpuck all to lift revenues and is now starting to hurt us.

[Sup3rw3ll]

i'm sorry but raising the season ticket by A£40 or more is the same argument as raise taxes. it gets to a point where it's counter productive.

It's true that fans will not just give up altogether and say "i'm not going anymore". Rather, it's very possible they won't get a season ticket and convert to pay at the gate.

At a time when celtic saw good business sense to reduce season tickets by A£100, why do you think a club like motherwell can increase tickets by A£40 and get away with it? I fully understand they had the champions league as alternate income, but they also understand the current operating climate.

Sure, you can't hand out tickets willy nilly for free as that upsets the inherent value of a season ticket or PATG. But, you can give tickets to away support kids as this is not related to the season ticket or adult PATG. Therefore, more people in the ground to affect short term money via stalls and long term money from sponsors when they view the average gate numbers f

[wellin]

At least they might want to eat something...Maybe they could do us a favour and eat neilsen...

[steviex]

[quote="Sup3rw3ll"]i'm sorry but raising the season ticket by Ai40 or more is the same argument as raise taxes. it gets to a point where it's counter productive.

It's true that fans will not just give up altogether and say "i'm not going anymore". Rather, it's very possible they won't get a season ticket and convert to pay at the gate.

At a time when celtic saw good business sense to reduce season tickets by Ai100, why do you think a club like motherwell can increase tickets by Ai40 and get away with it? I fully understand they had the champions league as alternate income, but they also understand the current operating climate.

Sure, you can't hand out tickets willy nilly for free as that upsets the inherent value of a season ticket or PATG. But, you can give tickets to away support kids as this is not related to the season ticket or adult PATG. Therefore, more people in the ground to affect short term money via stalls and long term money from spo

[skippy91]

Agreed, absolutely the cost of the sesaon ticket should rise. Our business case is a million miles not to mention pounds from the mankie mobs. They have the champs league money to bail them out, but they are also struggling due to the total lack of competion in the SPFL, that is why the have reduced their season tickets.

[Sup3rw3ll]

I've made a quick table of how i think the approx. 3500 season ticket fans are made up across the 3 stands and what comes in at the moment.. then, i've applied a 15% increase to the ST which is about 42 quid. the extra income without any drop off (D.O) is 142k.


ST Cost
$280.00
$300.00
$380.00
$80.00
[nextcol]
Fans
1500
1000
500
500
[nextcol]
Income
$420,000.00
$300,000.00
$190,000.00
$40,000.00
Total = $950,000.00
[nextcol]
Increase ST 15%
$42.00
$45.00
$57.00
$12.00


Extra Inc. (No D.O) =
[nextcol]
New Income
$483,000.00
$345,000.00
$218,500.00
$46,000.00
New Total = $1,092,500.00

$142,500.00


If you factor in a universal D.O rate across all three stands of 10%, then the extra income is just 33k. It is for this reason i believe such income analysis has probably been done by the club (with much more actuate figures), and a risk to reward ratio was not favorable enough for them

[mix106]

[quote="Sup3rw3ll"]I've made a quick table of how i think the approx. 3500 season ticket fans are made up across the 3 stands and what comes in at the moment.. then, i've applied a 15% increase to the ST which is about 42 quid. the extra income without any drop off (D.O) is 142k.


ST Cost
$280.00
$300.00
$380.00
$80.00
[nextcol]
Fans
1500
1000
500
500
[nextcol]
Income
$420,000.00
$300,000.00
$190,000.00
$40,000.00
Total = $950,000.00
[nextcol]
Increase ST 15%
$42.00
$45.00
$57.00
$12.00


Extra Inc. (No D.O) =
[nextcol]
New Income
$483,000.00
$345,000.00
$218,500.00
$46,000.00
New Total = $1,092,500.00

$142,500.00


If you factor in a universal D.O rate across all three stands of 10%, then the extra income is just 33k. It is for this reason i believe such income analysis has probably been done by the club (with much more actuate figures), and a risk to

[Sup3rw3ll]

the point being made wasn't one of what is motherwells actual position, rather to highlight the balancing act of increased prices vs. conversion to PATG or not turning up at all. Effectively, the increased income for ST would be in the tens of thousands at best which is not a lot of gain for annual income when you expose the club to a potential ST drop off from a large increase of £40+

3 ideas which i think are good commercial ventures that have been implemented are; free suite hire with ST, local business discounts with ST and 2 free kids with Cooper ST. All ideas which might well tip the value in the right direction to get more income in.. We will never know exactly if these ideas improved income because the numbers if these were not in place are not known.

I still think there is room for innovation. Not necessarily just customer facing, but how the club operate with scouting, contracts, youth etc.