what a load of **** holes on the direby site

[general_red]

what a bunch of ****s we have here with swaledale and his cronies , whose laughing now you **** holes - view external link (http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=181&fid=16&sty=2&act=1&mid=2111628092)

[Polish_ForestMad]

What actual advantage did the sheep gain by getting there business done early?they bragged about this but I can't think what the advantage was.they are still in the same position as before.we are breathing Down there necks with the same squad as before any business was done.lol.stenson has made himself look a plonker though.they gave some forest lads some stick about being premature!looks like they have shown that class that triz was talking about.

[dam617]

what a bunch of ****s we have here with swaledale and his cronies , whose laughing now you **** holes

Most of the bigmouths seem to be like argumentative 13 year olds.
They have an opinion and when it's proven wrong they tag something else on.


' you won't sign Hobbs and Silly Billy will throw a strop, engineer his own sacking and get a big pay off. You only had to look at the point he was making with his Watford starting eleven'

One 4 2 later and the best January transfer window we've had it's changed into 'how many are good enough to play in the Premiership anyway? Ner ner ne ner ner'. 'They are all loans'.

Children.

Perhaps The Werther's Over The River will shut up about 'trouble over the Trent'. Yeah, right XD

[Sma11ytheRam]

Bump.

[woolwhacker]

But there are six games to go, all those injuries are disappearing, surely second spot is achievable. :D

[triz]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :s

[Bologna_reunited]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...

[Sma11ytheRam]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]

Why when did you win the Champions League?

[Bologna_reunited]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]

Why when did you win the Champions League?[/quote]
OK, I'll play along with you Mr Pedant. We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.

[tomsdubs]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]

Why when did you win the Champions League?[/quote]
OK, I'll play along with you Mr Pedant. We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.[/quote]

Less games and teams with a group stage is easier? Great logic. B)

[Elite_Pie]

We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.

[triz]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]


you need to tell your fellow fans that...apparently we'll be 3 behind you soon :P

[swaledale]

No more than on your site it seems. Bet your all wishing you'd kept quiet about how you'd be out of site come May with "poor" derby clinging on to your shirt tales.

We did all tell you that bringing wee Billy back would end in tears and sure enough it has, nice that it was a 5-0 thrashing by your "poor" nieghbours that did it. You now have the task of clearing up after his mess, might take a season or two to do that.

As for Hobbs saga, well why did Hull sudenly whisk him away to force your hand to buy him? Very strange goings on.

[triz]

Pre season it was all "you'll be smelling our exhaust fumes" now they're all fixing up that hosepipe and shutting the garage door XD

[Sma11ytheRam]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]

Why when did you win the Champions League?[/quote]
OK, I'll play along with you Mr Pedant. We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.[/quote]

So...

Playing 6 games in a LEAGUE (hence the Champions League) followed by 6 games of home and away sudden death and then a final (13 games playing 7 different teams)

Is easier than:-

8 games of home and away sudden death and a final (9 games playing 5 different teams)???

Keep telling yourself that pal I'm sure you believe it.

[Elite_Pie]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]

Why when did you win the Champions League?[/quote]
OK, I'll play along with you Mr Pedant. We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.[/quote]

So...

Playing 6 games in a LEAGUE (hence the Champions League) followed by 6 games of home and away sudden death and then a final (13 games playing 7 different teams)

Is easier than:-

8 games of home and away sudden death and a final (9 games playing 5 different teams)???

Keep telling yourself that pal I'm sure you believe it.[/quote]


Yeah, but in those days it was

[Romanis]

In our first year we had to play the reigning Champions Liverpool and the German Champions Cologne.

In our 2nd we played the champions of Holland and Germany.

In both years we played the 2 best sides in Europe - Liverpool and Hamburg.

Yeah it was very easy.

The Liverpool team of 1978 were very ordinary mugs - yeah right. You guys can go on believing that.

[Elite_Pie]

That's not what was being discussed. The question was which competition was stronger and therefore harder to win.

Is it European Cup or Champions League?

[triz]

He made no claims about your games romanis, just that with the old format it was a lot harder to win back then. Which is plainly bollox frankly.

[UpTheRams1884]

Who is this Direby, please help me i'm dying to know. Which country and league are they in???







You sir talk full off **** reddog. P.S


M
I
N
D

T
H
E

G
A
P



5 NIL :heart: :) :star:

[UpTheRams1884]

You're doing so well winning the league and getting into the champions league so far oh wait... XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD


;D

[Romanis]

He made no claims about your games romanis, just that with the old format it was a lot harder to win back then. Which is plainly bollox frankly.

It can seen in both ways.
It was definitely harder to get in back then, either you be Champions or the holders, no other way. So it can be said to be harder, winning your league was a hard ask. But once in, it's slightly easier compared to now.

The group stage basically not that difficult depending on the draw, but the additional knock out phase against the cream made it harder.

This season may be an exception because the semis are tough, but usually it's the Rd of 16 and the quarters that's the real challenge. Once in the semis, you are quite safe, because of some upsets, you could get teams like PSV, Lyon, Monaco and was it Schalke 2 years ago?

This past 2 seasons - the semis are tough. Last year - Bayern, Dortmund, Barca and Madrid
This year - Bayern, Real, Chelsea and Atleti - all doing

[Elite_Pie]

It was definitely harder to get in back then. But once in, it's slightly easier compared to now.


Correct answer. It was definitely harder to qualify back then, but once you had it was much easier to win.

[triz]

I think you had a tough few games that is clear. I will add though that we were cheated out of it in quite ludicrous fashion.

[essexred52]

[quote="triz" now they're all fixing up that hosepipe and shutting the garage door XD[/quote] and i'll continue to say it next season,if you fail in the play offs its back to square 1 minus your camp players :D

[Romanis]

I think you had a tough few games that is clear. I will add though that we were cheated out of it in quite ludicrous fashion.

Clough was cheated of it in 1973 by Juventus(semis), but in a sense poetic justice, the great Ajax side won the Final.

But you failed too in 1976, competition won by the crack Bayern side.

But it's questionable whether you could beat Cruyff and Co in the 1973 Final, few teams could.

Bayern although cheated (by the referee) in 1975 denying Leeds were still the best team in Europe then.

But of course with Cloughie in 1973 anything was possible. 1976 I doubt would have been your year. Clough would again be cheated by a referee in our 1984 UEFA Cup semis with Anderlecht.

[triz]

I think you had a tough few games that is clear. I will add though that we were cheated out of it in quite ludicrous fashion.

Clough was cheated of it in 1973 by Juventus(semis), but in a sense poetic justice, the great Ajax side won the Final.

But you failed too in 1976, competition won by the crack Bayern side.

But it's questionable whether you could beat Cruyff and Co in the 1973 Final, few teams could.

Bayern although cheated (by the referee) in 1975 denying Leeds were still the best team in Europe then.

But of course with Cloughie in 1973 anything was possible. 1976 I doubt would have been your year. Clough would again be cheated by a referee in our 1984 UEFA Cup semis with Anderlecht.[/quote]

Yeah i agree with pretty much all that.

[triz]

and i'll continue to say it next season,if you fail in the play offs its back to square 1 minus your camp players :D


What does that actually mean? Yes we will no doubt lose our loan players. And yes we will start the season on 0 points :?

[worcesterred]

[quote="triz" so you have lots of chances to go and win it so it is obviously easier to win !!!!!

[Sma11ytheRam]

[quote="worcesterred" so you have lots of chances to go and win it so it is obviously easier to win !!!!![/quote]

In the old format you could lose 4 out of 9 games and still be champions of Europe.

[Elite_Pie]

[quote="worcesterred" so you have lots of chances to go and win it so it is obviously easier to win !!!!![/quote]


The Champions of Albania, Latvia, Luxembourg, Estonia.

The runner-up in Spain, Germany, Italy, England.


Read it slowly, think about it, then decide which would be the stronger opposition.

[worcesterred]

[quote="Elite_Pie" are better than in the European cup... what is the difference between champions league qualifying to early rounds of the european cup i bet if you c

[Trickytreesreds]

Two things come to mind for me, that are the defining factors in the difference of the two systems.
1. Seeding. The big guns are kept away from each other till the later stages. In the original format, the luck of the draw prevailed.

2. Squads. Most of the better teams now have too big a squad to use and manipulate. Those players are mainly of foreign origin and quality.
The original format saw most teams use mainly home grown players and the quality was limited.
To have a player suspended could easily result in your exit from the competition. Not now though.
Money now rules the competition, not guile/tactics/luck/passion and even conditions.

[dam617]

We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.[/quote]

Yes we do. You argue this EVERY TIME some ****er brings up the European Cups. Cups, back to back
Boring.

If your mate had gone out with Audrey Hepburn you would say her feet stink

[Elite_Pie]

We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.[/quote]

Yes we do. You argue this EVERY TIME some ****er brings up the European Cups.[/quote]


No, I argue it every time someone claims it was a stronger competition back then because only Champions were allowed in it.

Because of the reasons I've stated above, that is clearly not true.

[worcesterred]

We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.[/quote]

Yes we do. You argue this EVERY TIME some ****er brings up the European Cups.[/quote]


No, I argue it every time someone claims it was a stronger competition back then because only Champions were allowed in it.

Because of the reasons I've stated above, that is clearly not true.[/quote] Please tell me you don't actually believe this !!!!

[Elite_Pie]

So you think the champions of Lithuania are better than the runner-up in Spain, because they are CHAMPIONS.

I believe the Flat Earth Society are looking for new members.

[woolwhacker]

Blimey, who would of thunk, Forest talking about winning the European cup, not living in the past one bit

[hawthorne]

Beats me why you Forest boys keep arguing with our erstwhile local rivals. European cup or champions league, Ha. It was so easy to win in the old days, we all won it. Oh, wait a minute...
Same with their criticism of Stuart Pearce, we can all have a 78 cap former england captain return as boss can't we?
Oh, wait another minute...
The sheep can have their day in the sun, I genuinely hope they win the play offs, and that we can join them the following season, if they can stay up.
Though what the other tribe have to crow about is beyond me.

[Elite_Pie]

Same with their criticism of Stuart Pearce, we can all have a 78 cap former england captain return as boss can't we?

Though what the other tribe have to crow about is beyond me.


If you think 78 caps as a player guarantees a good manager, it seems that's not the only thing beyond you.

[hawthorne]

Show me where I said it did.
After the horrible little jock we just got rid of, I'd take a returning former hero of SP's standing over just about any other so called successful manager any day. I didn't think I'd need to explain that, I thought you were smart enough to work that out. Seems I was wrong.

[Elite_Pie]

I read it as you thinking Pearce was a good manager. I apologise for my error.

[i961pie]

Same with their criticism of Stuart Pearce, we can all have a 78 cap former england captain return as boss can't we?

Though what the other tribe have to crow about is beyond me.


If you think 78 caps as a player guarantees a good manager, it seems that's not the only thing beyond you.[/quote]

Like bobby Moore or Alan ball or Martin peters or Bryan robson or even David platt

[Bologna_reunited]

We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.[/quote]
Of course to the sheep and to your lot we won it simply by playing the likes of Aspley Old Boys and such like but in those days if you lost one game by a couple of goals you were out.

[Bologna_reunited]

Winning the champions league this year seems under threat now :sas may be but sure as **** the sheep worriers will always be two wins behind us...[/quote]

Why when did you win the Champions League?[/quote]
OK, I'll play along with you Mr Pedant. We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.[/quote]

So...

Playing 6 games in a LEAGUE (hence the Champions League) followed by 6 games of home and away sudden death and then a final (13 games playing 7 different teams)

Is easier than:-

8 games of home and away sudden death and a final (9 games playing 5 different teams)???

Keep telling yourself that pal I'm sure you believe it.[/quote]

So sudden death is easier than

[Bologna_reunited]

We won it twice ( yes, we really did) when it was sudden death which is a damn sight harder than it is now.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.[/quote]

Yes we do. You argue this EVERY TIME some ****er brings up the European Cups.[/quote]


No, I argue it every time someone claims it was a stronger competition back then because only Champions were allowed in it.

Because of the reasons I've stated above, that is clearly not true.[/quote]

May not have been a stronger competition then - compared to today, but as it was sudden death it was a harder competition to win.

[Bologna_reunited]

Same with their criticism of Stuart Pearce, we can all have a 78 cap former england captain return as boss can't we?

Though what the other tribe have to crow about is beyond me.


If you think 78 caps as a player guarantees a good manager, it seems that's not the only thing beyond you.[/quote]

No it doesn't, however, he is no better or worse than anyone else mentioned but he does have a good head start by the fans being on his side from minute one and he has a genuine affection for the club.

[Elite_Pie]

No, I argue it every time someone claims it was a stronger competition back then because only Champions were allowed in it.

Because of the reasons I've stated above, that is clearly not true.

May not have been a stronger competition then - compared to today.[/quote]


We got there in the end. I'm not sure how a competition with much stronger teams is easier to win than a competition with weaker teams though. There's no doubt that winning the European Cup was a fantastic achievement for a club of Forest's size, but why can't you do what most of your fans do and enjoy it for what it was? Trying to pretend it was something it clearly wasn't just makes you look a bit silly.

[Bologna_reunited]

No, I argue it every time someone claims it was a stronger competition back then because only Champions were allowed in it.

Because of the reasons I've stated above, that is clearly not true.

May not have been a stronger competition then - compared to today.[/quote]


We got there in the end. I'm not sure how a competition with much stronger teams is easier to win than a competition with weaker teams though. There's no doubt that winning the European Cup was a fantastic achievement for a club of Forest's size, but why can't you do what most of your fans do and enjoy it for what it was? Trying to pretend it was something it clearly wasn't just makes you look a bit silly.[/quote]

This is the part which gets up my hooter, "good for a club of a Forests size" so therefore then the "big boys" should have been winning it every year

[Elite_Pie]

[quote="Bologna_reunited" should have been winning it every year then. So how come even allowing for the easier format nowadays we are still the last English team to retain it?[/quote]


Already answered that. Champions League is a much stronger, more competitive competition therefore harder to win. This "easier format" thing is a red herring any way. The league part of CL is simply to maximise tv revenue while ensuring the stronger teams are there when it reverts to a knock-out format. UEFA realised that people wouldn't pay to see small clubs play each other (Forest v Malmo?) and they only really wanted the big guns involved. Like it or not, the clubs now make a fortune from the competition when it was a relative pittance in the EC.

[Bologna_reunited]

Already answered that. Champions League is a much stronger, more competitive competition therefore harder to win. This "easier format" thing is a red herring any way. The league part of CL is simply to maximise tv revenue while ensuring the stronger teams are there when it reverts to a knock-out format. UEFA realised that people wouldn't pay to see small clubs play each other (Forest v Malmo?) and they only really wanted the big guns involved. Like it or not, the clubs now make a fortune from the competition when it was a relative pittance in the EC.

You're changing the argument dude, don't doubt that the

[essexred52]

Already answered that. Champions League is a much stronger, more competitive competition therefore harder to win. This "easier format" thing is a red herring any way. The league part of CL is simply to maximise tv revenue while ensuring the stronger teams are there when it reverts to a knock-out format. UEFA realised that people wouldn't pay to see small clubs play each other (Forest v Malmo?) and they only really wanted the big guns involved. Like it or not, the clubs now make a fortune from the competition when it was a relative pittance in the EC.

Yo

[Trickytreesreds]

If it was easier, why did it take another English team 10 years to repeat the first win?
Then dominate for 6 years. A feat not surpassed since Real Madrid at the very start?
Since 1992, Spain and Germany have dominated.
Bologna is right, you can lose too many games and survive now, when you should be out.
Under the old format, the stronger team prevailed.

[Elite_Pie]

If you all really want to believe it was harder to win back then, who am I to spoil your little fantasy?

The Easter Bunny will soon be here, then only another 8 months or so and Santa Claus will be leaving you all presents.

[essexred52]

If you all really want to believe it was harder to win back then, who am I to spoil your little fantasy?

The Easter Bunny will soon be here, then only another 8 months or so and Santa Claus will be leaving you all presents. has got to be the worst response to an arguement ever, admit defeat elite and move on.

[Elite_Pie]

If you all really want to believe it was harder to win back then, who am I to spoil your little fantasy?

The Easter Bunny will soon be here, then only another 8 months or so and Santa Claus will be leaving you all presents. has got to be the worst response to an arguement ever, admit defeat elite and move on.[/quote]


Explain to me how the top 3 or 4 teams from Spain, Germany, Italy and England are weaker than the Champions of Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria and Belgium and I'll willingly move on. Strange how no-one has addressed that point! I'll try and explain it even clearer - imagine a British Cup. If you took the Champions of all the home nations, it would feature Man U, Celtic, The New Saints and St Patrick's Athletic. If you took the top four from England it would feature Man U, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Which would be the stronger competition and the harder one to w

[triz]

FA cup - knock out contest. Likely winners Arsenal...contenders Wigan, Hull.

Holders - Wigan

Premiership - League.Likely winners Man City...contenders chelsea,liverpool.

Holders - Man Utd


In a league the cream will usually rise to the top, in a knockout, anything can happen.


Not an ideal comparison but it does say something.


And as elite points out, the champions of every country weakens the tournament not strengthens it.


Having said all that, ill concede forest played some top teams on the way to winning their cups, credit where it's due. In my opinion though the new format will always be harder to win. I guess there are enough variables to have quite a large grey area however so anyone with a concerted interest (ie forest fans and there rivals) will have polarised views and argue maybe forever.


What cannot be argued is forest have won some though.

[Bologna_reunited]

If you all really want to believe it was harder to win back then, who am I to spoil your little fantasy?

The Easter Bunny will soon be here, then only another 8 months or so and Santa Claus will be leaving you all presents. has got to be the worst response to an arguement ever, admit defeat elite and move on.[/quote]


Explain to me how the top 3 or 4 teams from Spain, Germany, Italy and England are weaker than the Champions of Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria and Belgium and I'll willingly move on. Strange how no-one has addressed that point! I'll try and explain it even clearer - imagine a British Cup. If you took the Champions of all the home nations, it would feature Man U, Celtic, The New Saints and St Patrick's Athletic. If you took the top four from England it would feature Man U, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Which would be t

[Elite_Pie]

If you all really want to believe it was harder to win back then, who am I to spoil your little fantasy?

The Easter Bunny will soon be here, then only another 8 months or so and Santa Claus will be leaving you all presents. has got to be the worst response to an arguement ever, admit defeat elite and move on.[/quote]


Explain to me how the top 3 or 4 teams from Spain, Germany, Italy and England are weaker than the Champions of Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria and Belgium and I'll willingly move on. Strange how no-one has addressed that point! I'll try and explain it even clearer - imagine a British Cup. If you took the Champions of all the home nations, it would feature Man U, Celtic, The New Saints and St Patrick's Athletic. If you took the top four from England it would feature M

[i961pie]

I think as someone pointed out earlier it was harder to qualify for the competition in those days but easier to win it.
As for it being a knockout competition, that meant the 2 best teams in it could meet in the first round and one would go making the path to the final easier.
Today the league side of it is easier as you can lose and still qualify for the quarter finals but that is when the competition becomes much harder to win. In the last 8 you cannot avoid playing a top side from either Spain, Germany, England etc. The last 3 matches are all against the best teams.

[Bologna_reunited]

If you all really want to believe it was harder to win back then, who am I to spoil your little fantasy?

The Easter Bunny will soon be here, then only another 8 months or so and Santa Claus will be leaving you all presents. has got to be the worst response to an arguement ever, admit defeat elite and move on.[/quote]


Explain to me how the top 3 or 4 teams from Spain, Germany, Italy and England are weaker than the Champions of Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria and Belgium and I'll willingly move on. Strange how no-one has addressed that point! I'll try and explain it even clearer - imagine a British Cup. If you took the Champions of all the home nations, it would feature Man U, Celtic, The New Saints and St Patrick's Athletic. If you to

[Bologna_reunited]

I have no problem with how the current cup is played even though it is purely a money making exercise, and how on earth can it be the Champions League when nigh on 75% of participants aren't champions.

The format is based so the biggest clubs in the world can progress through to the knock out phase where the system as used by Forest kicks in - lose on aggregate and you're out.

I bet Liverpool fans don't have to defend their cup wins in this manner ;)

[Elite_Pie]

I suppose the conclusive proof that it was much weaker in the old format can be summed up in just one word...






















...Malmo.

[dam617]

I have no problem with how the current cup is played even though it is purely a money making exercise, and how on earth can it be the Champions League when nigh on 75% of participants aren't champions.

The format is based so the biggest clubs in the world can progress through to the knock out phase where the system as used by Forest kicks in - lose on aggregate and you're out.

I bet Liverpool fans don't have to defend their cup wins in this manner ;)

You're wasting your time mate, the Usual Suspects will argue to 30 pages because it's all about denigrating our European Cups and not about how difficult each competition is/was.

They can't even dream about standing on the terraces at at large European stadium and watch their captain lift up the greatest club cup in the world (watch some ****er argue about this too) so they try and drag ours down.
Jealousy, pure and simple.

They won't answer the point about Chelsea losing h

[Bologna_reunited]

I suppose the conclusive proof that it was much weaker in the old format can be summed up in just one word...

...Malmo.
Yes because they didn't beat big clubs ( at that time ) clubs like Monaco, Dynamo Kiev, Wisla Krakow and Austria Vienna en route.

They must have simply played Bulwell Town, Aspley a Rovers, Nuthall Villa & Carlton Old Boys to get there.

I thought I argued for the sake of it but you sir, hats off to a champion

By the way, you have a point in that Hamburg did beat the mighty Valur to start their campaign the year later. Oh and Dynamo Tblisi, Hadjuk Split and some other minnows - Real Madrid.

[Elite_Pie]

I thought I argued for the sake of it but you sir, hats off to a champion.


Arguing? We're in agreement on this one!




May not have been a stronger competition then - compared to today.

[i961pie]

No one is denying what a great achievement it was by Forest to win 2 European cups or by Liverpool, Man Utd. Villa or Celtic but that doesn't stop the fact it is a more difficult thing to win now than it was then so don't get paranoid about it.

[Bologna_reunited]

No one is denying what a great achievement it was by Forest to win 2 European cups or by Liverpool, Man Utd. Villa or Celtic but that doesn't stop the fact it is a more difficult thing to win now than it was then so don't get paranoid about it.

Paranoid XD

The only bunch of fans that denigrate what we achieved is your sad and sorry bunch of no mark muppets. Can't really think why that would be can you?

If it is more difficult to win now how come Chelsea etc etc? It is simply a long money generating exercise designed to protect the big clubs from going out in the early stages - we had no such luxury. Lose and out.

[worcesterred]

So you think the champions of Lithuania are better than the runner-up in Spain, because they are CHAMPIONS.

I believe the Flat Earth Society are looking for new members.

So you think glentoran in the irish league are better than some of the eastern block european teams because they play in a league format and have qualified by being sixth or something how can you be the best side in europe when there are lots of better sides in your own league !!!

[Elite_Pie]

So you think glentoran in the irish league are better than some of the eastern block european teams because they play in a league format and have qualified by being sixth or something how can you be the best side in europe when there are lots of better sides in your own league !!!


What you can't dispute is that more of the stronger teams are in CL, making it harder to win. Still not one of you have pointed out any error in the logic of this post:


[quote="Elite_Pie"]
Explain to me how the top 3 or 4 teams from Spain, Germany, Italy and England are weaker than the Champions of Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria and Belgium and I'll willingly move on. Strange how no-one has addressed that point! I'll try and explain it even clearer - imagine a British Cup. If you took the Champions of all the home nations, it would feature Man U, Celtic, The New Saints and St Patrick's Athletic. If you took the top

[Bologna_reunited]

So you think glentoran in the irish league are better than some of the eastern block european teams because they play in a league format and have qualified by being sixth or something how can you be the best side in europe when there are lots of better sides in your own league !!!


What you can't dispute is that more of the stronger teams are in CL, making it harder to win. Still not one of you have pointed out any error in the logic of this post:


[quote="Elite_Pie"]
Explain to me how the top 3 or 4 teams from Spain, Germany, Italy and England are weaker than the Champions of Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria and Belgium and I'll willingly move on. Strange how no-one has addressed that point! I'll try and explain it even clearer - imagine a British Cup. If you took the Champions of all the home nations, it would feature Man U, Celtic, The New Saints a

[Elite_Pie]

I don't give a toss what teams are in mix.



So, by far the most important reason it is now harder (a lot more strong teams) is discounted because you "don't give a toss"???

You keep living in that little fantasy world, "don't give a toss" about the 10 teams above Forest, and they are without a doubt the best team in the Championship. Dead easy when you choose to ignore the facts just to suit your own argument!

[Bologna_reunited]

I don't give a toss what teams are in mix.



So, by far the most important reason it is now harder (a lot more strong teams) is discounted because you "don't give a toss"???

You keep living in that little fantasy world, "don't give a toss" about the 10 teams above Forest, and they are without a doubt the best team in the Championship. Dead easy when you choose to ignore the facts just to suit your own argument![/quote]

Regardless of what teams are in the mix ( and bear in mind that most of today's players would not cope playing in the 70s with 70s laws and 70s referees) the actual format of the competition at that time makes it harder to win.

In today's competition you can lose at home by a cricket score and still progress on to the final. After all Chelsea lost at home and away and are still in it...

[Elite_Pie]

I don't give a toss what teams are in mix.



So, by far the most important reason it is now harder (a lot more strong teams) is discounted because you "don't give a toss"???

You keep living in that little fantasy world, "don't give a toss" about the 10 teams above Forest, and they are without a doubt the best team in the Championship. Dead easy when you choose to ignore the facts just to suit your own argument![/quote]

Regardless of what teams are in the mix ( and bear in mind that most of today's players would not cope playing in the 70s with 70s laws and 70s referees) the actual format of the competition at that time makes it harder to win.

In today's competition you can lose at home by a cricket score and still progress on to the final. After all Chelsea lost at home and away and are still in it...[/quote]


Admirable

[Trickytreesreds]

I don't give a toss what teams are in mix.



So, by far the most important reason it is now harder (a lot more strong teams) is discounted because you "don't give a toss"???

You keep living in that little fantasy world, "don't give a toss" about the 10 teams above Forest, and they are without a doubt the best team in the Championship. Dead easy when you choose to ignore the facts just to suit your own argument![/quote]

Regardless of what teams are in the mix ( and bear in mind that most of today's players would not cope playing in the 70s with 70s laws and 70s referees) the actual format of the competition at that time makes it harder to win.

In today's competition you can lose at home by a cricket score and still progress on to the final. After all Chelsea lost at home and

[Elite_Pie]

It was a competition for league winners only. That's the point of it all for me.


So do what no-one else will do and answer this question.

Was it stronger when only Champions were allowed in or when 2nd, 3rd, 4th from major nations were allowed in?

[Trickytreesreds]

It was a competition for league winners only. That's the point of it all for me.


So do what no-one else will do and answer this question.

Was it stronger when only Champions were allowed in or when 2nd, 3rd, 4th from major nations were allowed in?[/quote]

Impossible to answer EP, there's too many variables.
No second chances- Bigger squads
More big clubs- less pressure early on
Pitches/referees - tv review and 3 rd linos
home grown players - world wide players
Tougher seasons- disrupted programmes

So how can you answer it?
It was harder to qualify, but you could have a rough ride or easier ride to the final. Luck of the draw.


Now easy to qualify, easy early rounds with hic ups, but will meet tough opposition from the quarter finals on.

Money has ruined the competiton for me now. It's the first step to the eventual european super league.

Unless someone invents a time

[Elite_Pie]

It was a competition for league winners only. That's the point of it all for me.


So do what no-one else will do and answer this question.

Was it stronger when only Champions were allowed in or when 2nd, 3rd, 4th from major nations were allowed in?[/quote]

Impossible to answer EP, there's too many variables.
No second chances- Bigger squads
More big clubs- less pressure early on
Pitches/referees - tv review and 3 rd linos
home grown players - world wide players
Tougher seasons- disrupted programmes

So how can you answer it?
It was harder to qualify, but you could have a rough ride or easier ride to the final. Luck of the draw.


Now easy to qualify, easy early rounds with hic ups, but will meet tough opposition from the quarter finals on.

Money has ruined the competiton for me now. It's the first step to the eventual e

[Bologna_reunited]

It was a competition for league winners only. That's the point of it all for me.


So do what no-one else will do and answer this question.

Was it stronger when only Champions were allowed in or when 2nd, 3rd, 4th from major nations were allowed in?[/quote]

Would you agree that the ECL only gets interesting once the league part has finished and it enters the sudden death phase?

Oh, and be honest...

[Elite_Pie]

It was a competition for league winners only. That's the point of it all for me.


So do what no-one else will do and answer this question.

Was it stronger when only Champions were allowed in or when 2nd, 3rd, 4th from major nations were allowed in?[/quote]

Would you agree that the ECL only gets interesting once the league part has finished and it enters the sudden death phase?

Oh, and be honest...[/quote]


If I'm honest it doesn't get interesting for me at any stage. I'd never pay for Sky etc, I never watch the CL games on ITV, I won't watch the final because I don't care who wins it. I usually keep an eye on the scores / results but that's as far as my interest goes.

[i961pie]

No one is denying what a great achievement it was by Forest to win 2 European cups or by Liverpool, Man Utd. Villa or Celtic but that doesn't stop the fact it is a more difficult thing to win now than it was then so don't get paranoid about it.

Paranoid XD

The only bunch of fans that denigrate what we achieved is your sad and sorry bunch of no mark muppets. Can't really think why that would be can you?

If it is more difficult to win now how come Chelsea etc etc? It is simply a long money generating exercise designed to protect the big clubs from going out in the early stages - we had no such luxury. Lose and out.[/quote]

I work with a couple of Villa fans and even they agree the competition is much stronger now and harder to win. That doesn't take away what a great achievement it was for them and you to win the European cup.

[anonypie]

Two things come to mind for me, that are the defining factors in the difference of the two systems.
1. Seeding. The big guns are kept away from each other till the later stages. In the original format, the luck of the draw prevailed.

2. Squads. Most of the better teams now have too big a squad to use and manipulate. Those players are mainly of foreign origin and quality.
The original format saw most teams use mainly home grown players and the quality was limited.
To have a player suspended could easily result in your exit from the competition. Not now though.
Money now rules the competition, not guile/tactics/luck/passion and even conditions.

Wow. You're alive! ;D

[Elite_Pie]

Poor old Tricky hasn't been well at all. After the Derby game he was struck down with a severe bout of fivegoalitis. He had just got some silly pictures together to post on our board when he suffered another bout at the weekend.