Storming Norman

[alexbarmy]

So he's converted the shares to A?30 shares - no coincidence that gives the desired result to write off his loan. He had to wait until selling Powell in order to legally execute what had been 'voted on' in 2009.

All you little shareholders are left with a piece of paper worth A?30, not A?1 - he has been able to cash his in!

On top of that, he's borrowed £1.8m from Crewe Alexandra Limited!

[number1stuartevans]

old news im afraid>:(

[alexbarmy]

I didn't know he had borrowed more money!

Great! Fit and proper?

[ChalkDust]

How the **** has he managed to borrow A?1.8m after virtually losing A?1.2m last time out.

[alexmick]

This site is not functioning when you type in A£A£A£A£A£'s...that is pounds in cash. Confusing or what?

[PAULCAFC]

AiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAiAi

[PAULCAFC]

you`re right! type in Guineas Mick, your prefered denomination!(together with Leicester)XD XD :D

[alexmick]

you`re right! type in Guineas Mick, your prefered denomination!(together with Leicester)XD XD :D

We actually prefer Guinness. Although other drinks are available. ;)

[AlexLeicester]

you`re right! type in Guineas Mick, your prefered denomination!(together with Leicester)XD XD :D

We actually prefer Guinness. Although other drinks are available. ;)[/quote]

Such cheek from PaulCAFC ... and make mine a doubloon! :-D

[Timon]

The sad thing is nothing is ever said or investigated on Radio Stoke or in the Sentinel. Heck, when Puli$ or Adam$ can't find a pen to sign some pokey contract extension they never stop banging on about it for weeks/months!

[itwasin]

What you think of Bowler and Gradi now for letting him get away with it, next they be telling us not enough
money to buy new players! I wonder Why!

[alexbarmy]

Bowler and Gradi are powerless to stop him.

I agree with Timon-Martin Tideswell worked very hard to expose Port Vale problems, but nothing at Crewe.

[somersetcrewe]

What you think of Bowler and Gradi now for letting him get away with it, next they be telling us not enough
money to buy new players! I wonder Why!


If your comment was in isolation, I might have had some sympathy - but strangely I don't!!

Do you honestly believe that CAFC is run by a bunch of crooks? - because that is what you are insuating!!

[Timon]

What you think of Bowler and Gradi now for letting him get away with it, next they be telling us not enough
money to buy new players! I wonder Why!


If your comment was in isolation, I might have had some sympathy - but strangely I don't!!

Do you honestly believe that CAFC is run by a bunch of crooks? - because that is what you are insuating!![/quote]

No one could go as far as calling Norman a crook. As far as I'm aware he's not been found guilty of anything. But his business practices are pretty immoral not as he would care too much about mine or our views on this.

The unpaid excise duty on the vodka importation case appears to be rumbling on, there's a hearing in May where HMRC resumes battle with Norman's European Brand Trading.

As for Dario, JB or any of the other directors, they are powerless to resist. Hassall is the majority shareholder in the company that is the majori

[Timon]

Bowler and Gradi are powerless to stop him.

I agree with Timon-Martin Tideswell worked very hard to expose Port Vale problems, but nothing at Crewe.

As much as we all appreciate G McG's work on reporting at Crewe, he's too close to the club to deal with any of this. Someone independent needs to do some serious investigative journalism on this one.

[number1stuartevans]

hang on guys are we saying hes "borrowed" a FURTHER 1.8 m or is this just the 1.2 m + interest he "borrowed" a few years ago that has now hit the public domain? If this is new news where did the information come from?
If he has I think we'd be better off going bust and starting again a la wimbledon than carrying on making money for his fin piggybank.

[somersetcrewe]

Someone independent needs to do some serious investigative journalism on this one.


Agreed!!

What about Lee Blakeman? ;D
"What will it do for the team's confidence ..." SHUT UP, LEE!!!!

[alexbarmy]

[quote="number1stuartevans" a few years ago that has now hit the public domain? If this is new news where did the information come from?
If he has I think we'd be better off going bust and starting again a la wimbledon than carrying on making money for his fin piggybank.[/quote]

This is a new loan - the previous 1.2m was 'repaid' by rolling the shares up into Crewe Alexandra Limited.

[AstonAlex]

Two comments.

Firstly it emphasises what a good job it is that we have John Bowler as Chairman and not this 'gentleman' despite JB's inability to prevent the dubious borrowing by the leading shareholder. I worry what the situation might be if he was able to run the club without the influence of Bowler.

Secondly, how would Storming be affected if HMRC finds against him and prosecutes? Would he then fail the Fit and Proper Persons Test (or whatever it's called these days)? If so then we may need to get our wallets out and wrest control of our club from the shady character (and his business associates) before the shares go elsewhere. . . . fat chance!!

[VindePays2009]

We know who the forensic journalist is who has blown the lid off the dodgy finances of Crawley, Leeds and other clubs of that ilk.

His is David Conn of the Guardian, and he once almost played for the Alex youth (but then Alan A'Court got the sack and it all fell through).

I wonder if the likes of GossipColumnist (as was), who are in the newspaper business, could persuade him to take an interest? He's very pro-Crewe, hence might be prepared to take this one on.

[Timon]

Re point 1, spot on AA. This has been going on for years & must have weighed heavily on JB's mind. He should be supported by all fans.

Secondly it's a Tribunal at the moment. My guess is that HMRC are just trying to recover the money it believes Norman owes for the unpaid excise duty. Whether there are any other charges to answer, I've no idea, but must depend upon what comes out in May.

See page 14 on this document from the link - view external link (http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/tribunals/tax-and-chancery-upper-tribunal-/hearings-register.pdf)

[Timon]

We know who the forensic journalist is who has blown the lid off the dodgy finances of Crawley, Leeds and other clubs of that ilk.

His is David Conn of the Guardian, and he once almost played for the Alex youth (but then Alan A'Court got the sack and it all fell through).

I wonder if the likes of GossipColumnist (as was), who are in the newspaper business, could persuade him to take an interest? He's very pro-Crewe, hence might be prepared to take this one on.

Good points VdeP, I believe GC is Dave Maddock of the Mirror, their Liverpool football correspondent last time I saw him in print. Anyone know Dave?

[itwasin]

YES Birds of a Feather Flock Together.

[Timon]

YES Birds of a Feather Flock Together.

There's an old messageboard proverb too - A bit of a dick, so give him some stick.

Worth bearing in mind.

[number1stuartevans]

3 points guys:
1) alexbarmy is this information in the public domain so to speak? I wouldn't want you to reveal your sources but is there any way of you verifying this? I dont want to be involved in another of chalkies "somethings happening soon" threads.
2) Timon, I know you speak eloquently and authoratively on the legal aspect of cafc and have some expertise in this field. I thought hassall only had control of the club due to daniel potts voting with him. I thought they owned 30 and 23% respectively? If this is the case could we maybe put some pressure on him as norman doesnt give a flying one about our club?
Ken potts must be spinning in his grave if this is the case.
3) I cant believe some of you lads were laughing and joking on this thread for gods sake if this is true this man is destroying everything people have worked so hard for at the club for many years

[alexbarmy]

3 points guys:
1) alexbarmy is this information in the public domain so to speak? I wouldn't want you to reveal your sources but is there any way of you verifying this? I dont want to be involved in another of chalkies "somethings happening soon" threads.
2) Timon, I know you speak eloquently and authoratively on the legal aspect of cafc and have some expertise in this field. I thought hassall only had control of the club due to daniel potts voting with him. I thought they owned 30 and 23% respectively? If this is the case could we maybe put some pressure on him as norman doesnt give a flying one about our club?
Ken potts must be spinning in his grave if this is the case.
3) I cant believe some of you lads were laughing and joking on this thread for gods sake if this is true this man is destroying everything people have worked so hard for at the club for many years
1 - Yes, in the public domain. I downloaded a copy of Crew

[number1stuartevans]

ffs bump nothing on the field matters or in the academy if hes taking the money wake up cafc fans

[somersetcrewe]

ffs bump nothing on the field matters or in the academy if hes taking the money wake up cafc fans


But what exactly do you suggest we do? I doubt "bumping" this msg to the top of a msg board will have any effect.
I'm off to Priestfield today, don't know about you ...?!!

[valefaninpeace]

There was over 12-18 months of petitions, protests after every game, supporters club actions, contacting the FL, boycotts etc before the sentinel came on board (radio stoke pandered to them until the end, which is probably why Sandoz doesn't cover any vale anymore due to the way he covered it). Before that tideswell called bratt a steady hand on the tiller. If you think the clubs being screwed, do something about it, rather than sitting there expecting others to.

[alexbarmy]

ffs bump nothing on the field matters or in the academy if hes taking the money wake up cafc fans


But what exactly do you suggest we do? I doubt "bumping" this msg to the top of a msg board will have any effect.
I'm off to Priestfield today, don't know about you ...?!![/quote]
I'll start by contacting the Football League.

[alexbarmy]

There was over 12-18 months of petitions, protests after every game, supporters club actions, contacting the FL, boycotts etc before the sentinel came on board (radio stoke pandered to them until the end, which is probably why Sandoz doesn't cover any vale anymore due to the way he covered it). Before that tideswell called bratt a steady hand on the tiller. If you think the clubs being screwed, do something about it, rather than sitting there expecting others to.
I was referring to the Yank saga. Bratt was a steady hand-you lot just wanted more money pumping in to spend on wages or players.

[TwiceInABlueMoon]

The best thing us fans can do is notify the local press. Everyone send letters and emails, expressing your concerns, into the Crewe Guardian and the Stoke Sentinal. People power. Links below:

http://www.creweguardian.co.uk/contactus/

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/contact.html

[NEVTHEDEV]

Fed up with all this crap,surely its got to be legal,if it goes through the books? :blue: :? :?

[valefaninpeace]

There was over 12-18 months of petitions, protests after every game, supporters club actions, contacting the FL, boycotts etc before the sentinel came on board (radio stoke pandered to them until the end, which is probably why Sandoz doesn't cover any vale anymore due to the way he covered it). Before that tideswell called bratt a steady hand on the tiller. If you think the clubs being screwed, do something about it, rather than sitting there expecting others to.
I was referring to the Yank saga. Bratt was a steady hand-you lot just wanted more money pumping in to spend on wages or players.[/quote]

Shows how much you know. Bratt was the root of all the problems. The American bloke didn't cause any. And by the time miller and deakin came along the club were already in trouble and everyone (apart from Sandoz) could see it. People dislike deakin and miller (no one is fussed about th

[Proggs]

Hi VFiP, thanks for the win yday. What do you make of Vales short-term future? Adams sign or not? A?150k at moment. How about Smurf? Gossip says he may walk.

[alexbarmy]

There was over 12-18 months of petitions, protests after every game, supporters club actions, contacting the FL, boycotts etc before the sentinel came on board (radio stoke pandered to them until the end, which is probably why Sandoz doesn't cover any vale anymore due to the way he covered it). Before that tideswell called bratt a steady hand on the tiller. If you think the clubs being screwed, do something about it, rather than sitting there expecting others to.
I was referring to the Yank saga. Bratt was a steady hand-you lot just wanted more money pumping in to spend on wages or players.[/quote]

Shows how much you know. Bratt was the root of all the problems. The American bloke didn't cause any. And by the time miller and deakin came along the club were already in trouble and everyone (apart from Sandoz) could see it. People

[alexbarmy]

Just so you know a bit more. The 1.8m pounds has been lent to Norman Hassall Limited. I looked at Norman Hassall Limited's accounts and lo and behold there is no cash there - it has been used.

It has been used to buy into Commercial Enterprises (Crewe) Limited - the company which effectively owns the land when the companies were split. Because when the 1.2m old loan was secured on his shares he needed more cash in order to buy into the land company. So he has borrowed another 1.8m to do this.

Effectively Norman will have 'paid' 3m pounds for his shares in the football club and land company (by extracting the cash from the club).

It's a twisted web of affairs - all know is that 3m pounds which could be used for the day to day running of the club has GONE.

[Timon]

Reported today that Italian businessman Massimo Cellino has been prevented from buying Leeds due to unpaid import duty on buying a yacht.

If the unpaid excise duty case by HMRC finally goes against Norman then the FL needs to know. - view external link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26717044)

[alexbarmy]

Reported today that Italian businessman Massimo Cellino has been prevented from buying Leeds due to unpaid import duty on buying a yacht.

If the unpaid excise duty case by HMRC finally goes against Norman then the FL needs to know.

Very interesting - let's hope HMRC win!

[AstonAlex]

Very interesting - let's hope HMRC win!

Now that's not a sentence you hear every day!

But agreed, the short term upheaval might lead to a better long term financial future if the odd million in club funds doesn't get converted into shares every couple of years.

[itwasin]

If you remember whan all this was let out of the Bag Dario could not
afford to buy a C.F at the time for 5,000 now we know why, and the club was falling like a stone towards None League before Dario was pushed aside, all thanks to Stormin Norman , he needs putting in the Stocks in Pillory Street, until he comes clean along with those silently helping him !

[ALEXKNOWALL]

What planet do you live on?

[Timon]

What planet do you live on?

Exactly, it's blatantly obvious that Norman works aloan XD

[lukcour]

Supporters should be made aware that they could very easily be opening a very smelly and distasteful can of worms here.

The movement and use of funds in a company have very strict rules which have to be adhered to at all times. The transfer of a large sum of money from the company to a director for his personal/business use is indeed a grey area. The sums of money involved greatly exceed what could be reasonably considered salary. In these cases they have been registered as loans from the company to an individual director.

When a company finds themselves in a situation where they have a large surplus of funds it could be considered a reasonable business to make such funds available for loan to gain a profit on interest. It would be reasonable to request security of 3-5 times the value of the loans in the case of an individual.

In the current economic climate and with interest rates so low it would be difficult to justify a large interest rate of any significance. When you consi

[alexbarmy]

[quote="lukcour"]Supporters should be made aware that they could very easily be opening a very smelly and distasteful can of worms here.

The movement and use of funds in a company have very strict rules which have to be adhered to at all times. The transfer of a large sum of money from the company to a director for his personal/business use is indeed a grey area. The sums of money involved greatly exceed what could be reasonably considered salary. In these cases they have been registered as loans from the company to an individual director.

When a company finds themselves in a situation where they have a large surplus of funds it could be considered a reasonable business to make such funds available for loan to gain a profit on interest. It would be reasonable to request security of 3-5 times the value of the loans in the case of an individual.

In the current economic climate and with interest rates so low it would be difficult to justify a large inter

[bonehead]

yes i can hear the meeting now

all against ... all for (Normans 65%)

oh it seems its passed

would i get in touch with the papers and open a can of worms - YES

IF we were demoted a couple of leagues so what - if it means getting shut of Hassell

where are the new guys in all of this - the new directors

i think lets get our MP on it - tell him if nothings done we will ask why in the press

who knows maybe Norman is gonna offer the ground for a HS2 station - we couldnt vote against him

ask yourself - why does he want control

its as bad as Putin grabbing stuff for free saying someone voted 4 it