FAO Tricky Tree Reds

[Romanis]

I have a bone to pick with you- your support of UKIP.

Let's just for argument sake say you're right - the Lib Dems/Tories and Labour are all useless, you mean to tell me that UKIP should lead the country?

And you can't just say, all politicians and parties are the same, they are hopeless. Hopeless they may be, but at the end of the day, the country needs a Govt in place. It's like a football match, the referee is rubbish, but can you have a match without a referee?

And we just can't have a lot of individuals voted in as MPs and not be part of some kind of party discipline. There would be deadlock, no Bills will be passed, No budget, nothing, just chaos because each will want something special.

Parliamentary democracy is still the best system here. And the 3 main parties, whatever their faults, still are the only ones that can provide a semblance of stability. Disagree with their policies yes, but at the end of the day, people choose where to put their faith in and the majority view

[Elite_Pie]

You may hate the Tories, but you gotta accept that they have the mandate that came from the people in what our system provides for.


I hate the Tories, but the system that saw them (kind of) elected is still the best we've got. Proportional Representation will lead to another toothless coalition. I prefer one party to carry out their mandate even if it is the Tories.

[Romanis]

Given the Tories or a Govt under Red Ed, you choose the lesser of 2 evils - the Tories. Although I'm very concerned of a Boris Johnson Govt.

[Trickytreesreds]

oooooooh a good old political debate.
I love these.
Yes I hate the Tories, I hate Liebor, the Lib dims aren't even worth a mention.

Fundamentally you are correct. We have to have a decent government to lead the day to day running.

So why do I vote UKIP?
At this moment in time, they give me what my personal feelings want. Surely that is the point? They want my vote, then implement what I want.

So what is it that bugs me?

Basically the EU and everything it represents.
It was supposed to be a common market, but now it's a dictatorial establishment, hell bent on expanding it's influence. All identities are being stripped, by faceless nobodies, that have been elected in like the politburo.

We, as a nation are being swamped. Services buckling, debt mounting, housing crisis, ethnic tensions, crime, policies forced on us and on and on and on. I fear for my son's future and any grandchildren's future. In fact, I have told my lad, to get out if he can, the country is knackered.

What do I

[Romanis]

You do realise UKIP is a 1 trick pony?

They got nothing else, put them in charge, we'll end up worse than Ukraine.

[Elite_Pie]

Running the country is a bit more than EU membership. Lots wrong with the EU, but I still feel we will be better off staying and fighting our corner rather than becoming isolated.

Have you had a look at the UKIP hierarchy? A bunch of loonies that couldn't be trusted with a village fete never mind the economy, education, health etc. The main parties may be poor, but they are still miles in front of UKIP.

[Trickytreesreds]

You do realise UKIP is a 1 trick pony?

They got nothing else, put them in charge, we'll end up worse than Ukraine.

Yes, of course I do. However, the other 3 have shown no sign of bending to concerns. They seem to believe they don't have to listen.
ANother party, causes chaos for them and that's good.
I HOPE IT FORCES SOMEONES HAND.

Sooner or later someone will wake up and realise, they stand to either lose/gain votes
if they address this. The UKIP voters would sweep someone to power.

It's called democracy. Something the EU doesn't exactly embrace.

Vive la revolution

[Romanis]

You're doing exactly what the SNP did in 1979.

Because Callaghan refused to give in to some of there demands for Scotland, they joined forces with their eternal enemies - Margaret Thatcher's Tories.

Labour lost the Confidence vote, the Tories crept in and Thatcher duly stuck Scottish devolution up the SNP's posterior.

You and others vote UKIP - you get Red Ed leading a fragile Labour Govt with Clegg (he'll follow the wind). He'll go to bed with Brussels and you get screwed further.

At least with the Tories now, the issue of Europe is NOT burning on all cylinders.

[Romanis]

Labour is all tax and spend. Who do you think created the current mess?

A vote for UKIP is a vote for Ed Milliband.

I'm not saying the Tories are perfect. Thatcher's fault - she did right in curbing the unions, giving ownership and cutting nationalisation, is that she forgot about those that were disenfranchised by her policies.

Policies are supposed to benefit many but some always get affected. Thatcher forgot about the common man, that's in a way the primary flaw in Conservative policies.

I hate to say this but China's growth policy wasn't bad. They started with the big cities and then slowly worked their way inwards, bringing growth to all.

(Anyway we'll continue this discussion a bit tomorrow, I got a long day ahead since it's a holiday here on Saturday. Would be good to take Basie's views on this as well).

[Trickytreesreds]

You're doing exactly what the SNP did in 1979.

Because Callaghan refused to give in to some of there demands for Scotland, they joined forces with their eternal enemies - Margaret Thatcher's Tories.

Labour lost the Confidence vote, the Tories crept in and Thatcher duly stuck Scottish devolution up the SNP's posterior.

You and others vote UKIP - you get Red Ed leading a fragile Labour Govt with Clegg (he'll follow the wind). He'll go to bed with Brussels and you get screwed further.

At least with the Tories now, the issue of Europe is NOT burning on all cylinders.

Maybe, but I still believe the UKIP seed is growing and it will hurt more and more.

That's my opinion anyway. SO stop forcing your views on me >:(
You don't even live here Robinson Crusoe



XD XD XD

[Bologna_reunited]

You do realise UKIP is a 1 trick pony?

They got nothing else, put them in charge, we'll end up worse than Ukraine.

As may be but they are the only ones concerned with addressing the one thing the vast majority are concerned about.

Stop immigration or stop the one thing the immigrants seek - welfare.

[Romanis]

I am in full agreement with the policy that we should stop welfarism for others merely taking advantage of our system. Many years ago, I met an Indian national who wanted to come to Britain and seek asylum or some form of permanent residency. He told me bluntly - Britain has a lot of human rights and the state provides which they won't get back home. I was appalled. Fortunately he didn't succeed but he's got citizenship in Singapore, which I think will make a British stay much easier. Singaporeans do not need visas to come to Britain.

I am not well versed in immigration or social welfare laws, my thinking is that it's very hard for Her Majesty's Govt to deny people who have been given a right of abode here access to welfare.

It's something in the Law I believe, welfare is for all. Any change my understanding (which can be wrong because I'm guessing), means it'll affect everyone here, both HM's subjects and those granted residency.

Personally I'm against welfare except in totally nee

[Romanis]

UKIP has only highlighted the problem, I don't think they have the solution either.

A vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour which in turn I believe for a repeat of the past.

Red Ed is weak and will be at the mercy of the unions and the Euro lovers in his party. Worse still if he needs the Lib Dems, you'll end up more pro-Europe and of course the crazy notion of proportional representation, where Parliament will be hijacked by smaller groups or parties who will demand their pet projects get implemented.

Labour needs a leader in the mould of Atlee, Wilson or Callaghan, not a Blair or Brown, certainly not Red Ed.

[Trickytreesreds]

UK welfare, by far exceeds the benefit most europeans get.
The new backward nations, get more in benefits here, than they do in their homeland.
This is wrong. Yet the lovely EU, says, "you will pay them, it's equality".
********. Why do EU migrants and illegals fight their way here?
Because they know damn well they'll get welfare, housing and help.

No one in europe, stops outsiders from working their way over europe to get at us. If it's equality, then stuff it.

The politicians lie all the time. We cherry pick. Immigration is good for us. Being in europe is good for us. We are all one happy continent.

Bollox.
They don't cherry pick. You don't get asked what you can do. It doesn't matter if you're crippled or too old to find work, we'll keep you. Sell the big issue? Welcome, you're self employed.
Immigration is good for us? No it isn't. In it's present form it has caused division and sectarian areas, as ethnicities band together.

Being in europe is good for us?
If we leave our goods