Prime Directive Ignored.

[RedBasie]

In the Sixties Gene Roddenberry attempted to launch a television series about what America shouldn't do in Vietnam and said that they shouldn't be there at all. It was a failure and was withdrawn.Not to be deterred he used the same message in a new science fiction series called Startrek which became a global success.The same message which was once totally ignored now became accepted worldwide.What was it? Starfleet Prime Directive prevents Starfleet personnel from interfering in the internal development of alien civilisations specially those below a certain threshold of development,and should not impose on those civilisations ideals and values purely by superior technology and weaponry. In other words nations should be left to work their own destinies. They may well become successful even more so than us and then again they may not, that's up to them. That brings us to modern day Iraq and a future Afghanistan. Would this ethnic cleansing made possible by hijacking superior US armamen

[45red]

Its very easy to say that now but if our anscestors had of took that advice then we wouldnt exist

[Trickytreesreds]

Its very easy to say that now but if our anscestors had of took that advice then we wouldnt exist

There isn't a country on the planet, that hasn't interfered with another, either directly or indirectly at some point.

[45red]

Its very easy to say that now but if our anscestors had of took that advice then we wouldnt exist

There isn't a country on the planet, that hasn't interfered with another, either directly or indirectly at some point.[/quote]

But lets be fair tricks we were the masters hense owning most of the world at one point

[RedBasie]

Its very easy to say that now but if our anscestors had of took that advice then we wouldnt exist

There isn't a country on the planet, that hasn't interfered with another, either directly or indirectly at some point.[/quote]

Us more so than others,international slave trade on the African Continent, destruction on the North American continent and Australasia of it's first peoples. I wonder if we'll ever improve on our record that out of 200 nations on the globe, there's only 26 we've haven't invaded. If we'd just kept to our national boundaries and limited our population to sustainable levels who knows what would have be achieved. There wouldn't have been starvation in Africa, which was caused by Europeans imposing state boundaries and preventing indigenous migratory peoples from following wildlife migrations and favourable weather conditions.The same goes for Iraq, which was once p

[Romanis]

I was just talking today with a friend about the Dutch invading the Far East back in the day, notably present day Indonesia.

Most of the time, they started something that forced the locals to retaliate, then wham, they used their superior firepower to gain victory (more land) by getting the natives to sign a Treaty.

[Trickytreesreds]

Its very easy to say that now but if our anscestors had of took that advice then we wouldnt exist

There isn't a country on the planet, that hasn't interfered with another, either directly or indirectly at some point.[/quote]

Us more so than others,international slave trade on the African Continent, destruction on the North American continent and Australasia of it's first peoples. I wonder if we'll ever improve on our record that out of 200 nations on the globe, there's only 26 we've haven't invaded. If we'd just kept to our national boundaries and limited our population to sustainable levels who knows what would have be achieved. There wouldn't have been starvation in Africa, which was caused by Europeans imposing state boundaries and preventing indigenous migratory peoples from following wildlife migrations and favourable weather condi

[RedBasie]

If we ever were to move outwards we would eventually meet a species vastly more superior to our own. They would no doubt be quick to point out how we've have treated our world, it's millions of species and races.No doubt you would prefer their judgement to be really harsh as you seem to believe that only in war and conflict real progress accrues to mankind. Perhaps not to Native Americans,Africans and Aborgines maybe,but to the European master race yes.Where have I heard that before?

[RedBasie]

I was just talking today with a friend about the Dutch invading the Far East back in the day, notably present day Indonesia.

Most of the time, they started something that forced the locals to retaliate, then wham, they used their superior firepower to gain victory (more land) by getting the natives to sign a Treaty.

Yep, that's also how the Wild West was won. Gandhi used better tactics in India. The British had to leave when the locals totally ignored us and the country became ungovernable and unexploitable.

[Trickytreesreds]

If we ever were to move outwards we would eventually meet a species vastly more superior to our own. They would no doubt be quick to point out how we've have treated our world, it's millions of species and races.No doubt you would prefer their judgement to be really harsh as you seem to believe that only in war and conflict real progress accrues to mankind. Perhaps not to Native Americans,Africans and Aborgines maybe,but to the European master race yes.Where have I heard that before?

Basie, your wonderful utopia makes grand reading doesn't it?
How we would all be wonderful and excellent to each other. To run, laugh, love in the sun. Then to sleep and dream of rainbows, puppies, and magic lands of sweets and pirates.
But I'm sorry to say it isn't. As I have said, it is in our nature.
You speak of Gandhi. Fine man. Have all India followed his vision and teachings ? No. Hindu, Sikhs, Muslims, blood guts and fire. Brilliant.
You say

[RedBasie]

Maybe you should get your facts right, surely you mean Chamberlain and not Attlee. Hitler and his henchmen never killed anyone, it was those who blindly obeyed him and started to kill those they didn't know and have never met and probably would have liked if they ever met. Of course then it became a people's a war of survival to the end. How many conflicts today are wars of survival and not just of greed,acquisition and racial prejudice.But then again for you war is good because it brings real progress although it's difficult to see how the Holocaust affected our material wellbeing.

[45red]

Maybe you should get your facts right, surely you mean Chamberlain and not Attlee. Hitler and his henchmen never killed anyone, it was those who blindly obeyed him and started to kill those they didn't know and have never met and probably would have liked if they ever met. Of course then it became a people's a war of survival to the end. How many conflicts today are wars of survival and not just of greed,acquisition and racial prejudice.But then again for you war is good because it brings real progress although it's difficult to see how the Holocaust affected our material wellbeing.

Have you Been to war basie ? because i CAN assure you there is not a lot of love lost between us and the radicalised " muslim " taliban

[Romanis]

To quote Kennedy on the nuclear option:

Only when we have arms sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.

[Trickytreesreds]

Maybe you should get your facts right, surely you mean Chamberlain and not Attlee. Hitler and his henchmen never killed anyone, it was those who blindly obeyed him and started to kill those they didn't know and have never met and probably would have liked if they ever met. Of course then it became a people's a war of survival to the end. How many conflicts today are wars of survival and not just of greed,acquisition and racial prejudice.But then again for you war is good because it brings real progress although it's difficult to see how the Holocaust affected our material wellbeing.

Basie most of what you say, is from a flower power perspective.
You make me sound out to be a war monger?
Not at all. However, I may never have started a fight in my life, but I have bloody well finished them.
If everything was from the way you want it to be, then great. But it isn't is it?
IT'S IN OUR NATURE. THE STRONG PREY ON THE WEAK.

So for me,

[Trickytreesreds]

To quote Kennedy on the nuclear option:

Only when we have arms sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.

Deployed*

[Romanis]

To quote Kennedy on the nuclear option:

Only when we have arms sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.

Deployed*[/quote]

Knobhead, he used employed.

It's taken from his inaugural address.
Another line I like:

Let every nation know, whether it wish us well or ill, that we'll pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend or oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty, this much we pledge and more..

[Trickytreesreds]

To quote Kennedy on the nuclear option:

Only when we have arms sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.

Deployed*[/quote]



Knobhead, he used employed.

It's taken from his inaugural address.
Another line I like:

Let every nation know, whether it wish us well or ill, that we'll pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend or oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty, this much we pledge and more..[/quote]

I'll bet it was in better English than that though. XD XD XD

[Elite_Pie]

Here's a poser for you Basil.
We are all harmonic and brothers.
Should we lay down every gun/bomb/missile/nuke/biochemical and devote all our efforts to planting marigolds? how would the world fare?


The world would obviously be a much happier place.

Unless you dislike marigolds.

[RedBasie]

Planting lots of marigolds is not a good idea and is bad ecology just like Forestry Commission conifer plantations.They are monocultures which become sterile areas which do not attract wildlife. There are much more better things to do like the restoration of ancient woodlands in the proposed National Forest just south of here,also restoring natural river meadows like the Green Prince has suggested and don't forget we do with natural wetlands to combat flooding caused by climate change and gardens being converted into car parks. Lots and lots to do for war junkies like yourself if you should decide to convert your swords into ploughshares.

[RedBasie]

Planting lots of marigolds is not a good idea and is bad ecology just like Forestry Commission conifer plantations.They are monocultures which become sterile areas which do not attract wildlife. There are much more better things to do like the restoration of ancient woodlands in the proposed National Forest just south of here,also restoring natural river meadows like the Green Prince has suggested and don't forget we do with more natural wetlands to combat flooding caused by climate change and gardens being converted into car parks. Lots and lots to do for war junkies like yourself if you should decide to convert your swords into ploughshares.

[Trickytreesreds]

Planting lots of marigolds is not a good idea and is bad ecology just like Forestry Commission conifer plantations.They are monocultures which become sterile areas which do not attract wildlife. There are much more better things to do like the restoration of ancient woodlands in the proposed National Forest just south of here,also restoring natural river meadows like the Green Prince has suggested and don't forget we do with more natural wetlands to combat flooding caused by climate change and gardens being converted into car parks. Lots and lots to do for war junkies like yourself if you should decide to convert your swords into ploughshares.[/quote]

Basie, in this wonderful world you paint, there won't be enough space to swing a cat in this country soon, never mind the rest of the world.
What then, for your save the planet/ make love not war war world then?

The point of your prime