O/T Scottish Election

[Aldo1983]

Anyone care? Seems to be a lack of interest.

I'll grow to hate them like I hate most things but right now the SNP get my two votes.

I hope Sarwar doesn't get in but that stupid list thing will see to that I'm sure.

Hope Jo Swinson doesnt get in either. She sent a hand written letter to my wife looking for her vote. Desperate stuff.

[WestCoastDon]

I would vote but Homes Under the Hammer is on television.

[Mason89]

I would vote but Homes Under the Hammer is on television.

Id take that show off the tv. Sends out the wrong message.

As for the election, Jackie the Hutt is standing here, so I have to vote SNP.

[Buc]

SNP 1 Greens 2.for me I don't think a one horse race is a good thing .
But by tomorrow we will find out the final result. Have to be fair coming from a minority government to full control in the way the snp have done is amazing .. Credit when and where due.

[donsdaft]

I think I'll probably vote, but only because Mrs. Donsdaft will drag me out.
Difficult to take an interest in a country that volunteers to be ruled over by the English.

[simarooskimoose]

Cock and balls on the ballot paper for me. Couldn't scrape together a redeeming feature about any of my local candidates.

Looking like turnout will be utter pish as well.

[donsdaft]

Voting done.

National Front, that's Nicola isn't it?

[Geoff_Tipps™]

I saw a poll earlier this week that suggested the Tories would gain some support in Scotland.

[TheDeeDon]

I have paid no interest to this campaign whatsoever. I think seeing their mugs on the TV puts folk off, regardless of political persuasions. I think people know that regardless who we vote for nothing will change, one brand of toryism for another, quite sad really.

I'll drag my airse doon to the polling booth by closing time though.

[Barnared]

2 votes each and some retards are voting for 2 different partys. A bit like buying a season ticket for Pittodrie and a half season ticket at mcdairmid park....

[Steve1903]

Not voting -and before anyone gives it the "oh well you can't complain about the result then" garbage, here were my options:
SNP, Tory, Labour, Lib Dem. That's it, no independents or minor parties standing, nor even a looney party type person.
Having a built in hatred of all the major parties I'm left out in the cold on this one. Now if they were to add a "none of the above" option I'd have happily moseyed along to register my disinterest in the standing liars and thieves.

[Brian Grantland]

I voted for an independent as the green party aren't fielding a candidate in my constituency, then green in the list

[Mason89]

2 votes each and some retards are voting for 2 different partys.

A lot of people didn't have the option to vote for the same party twice.

[The_Verninator]

I would vote but my lazy ass says otherwise - the ass wins !!

[InversneckieDob]

2 votes each and some retards are voting for 2 different partys.

A lot of people didn't have the option to vote for the same party twice. [/quote]

Yeah, no Green option for me in the first poll, so I c0ck 'n' ballsed it and voted Green in the second.

I am strongly in favour of a "none of the above" option on ballot papers, though it'll never happen because the career orientated, ideology free, status quo maintaining, real world a mystery, image and spin obsessed flotsam who currently masquerade as political options know that it would win a faaaarkin' landslide.

Unfettered capitalism by default cos nae c u n t has the stones to do anything about it.

[Brian Grantland]

2 votes each and some retards are voting for 2 different partys. A bit like buying a season ticket for Pittodrie and a half season ticket at mcdairmid park....

Retard is a horrible word

Seems to be a lot of split voters here, due to options.

Your thinking leaves no room for good local representation, such as a Margo MacDonald, just vote party and don't concern urself with local issues.

Exactly what the chunts in charge like
sheep like thinking.

[leontrotsky]

SNP and RISE . Whilst its a truism that the working class has no nationality , SNP offer at least the opportunity to break from the British ruling class , albeit replace with a Scottish one . Its still a step in the right direction . Another truism , multinationals couldn't give a **** whether you call yourself Scottish or British thus RISE get my second vote
"INDEPENDENCE & DEMOCRACY
RISE believes that Scotland needs the full powers of an independent country in order to tackle the full extent of inequality of wealth and power.

We support a second referendum on independence within the lifespan of the next parliament at a time of Scotland’s choosing, with or without Westminster’s consent.

We are committed to using the powers of the Scottish Parliament to the fullest extent possible; however, even after the implementation of the Scotland Bill, our parliament will lack control over key areas of our lives. This makes securing an independence referendum a pressing concern.
RISE’

[WestCoastDon]

Your use of the vile word retard is more damning than my (and many others I'm sure) voting choices...

It's kind of ironic using the term "retard" to damn people's perfectly justifiable voting intentions in the same sentence as using the wrong plural for party.

[WestCoastDon]

Whilst its a truism that the working class has no nationality

no it's not.

[leontrotsky]

Whilst its a truism that the working class has no nationality

no it's not.[/quote]

yes it is

[WestCoastDon]

Whilst its a truism that the working class has no nationality

no it's not.[/quote]

yes it is
[/quote]

I am working class and I have a nationality. Therefore, I am the one person that disproves your "truism". In fact, I am sure there are a few others.

Just because it says that in the Marxist manifesto does not make it true. Now that is a "truism".

[leontrotsky]

It only proves they pull the wool over your eyes . Its a cunning ruse to keep you in serfdom to the ruling class . Simplistically , what have you in common with the British (Scottish ) ruling class ? Conversely what have you got in common with your fellow European , Asian etc working classes ?

[WestCoastDon]

It only proves they pull the wool over your eyes . Its a cunning ruse to keep you in serfdom to the ruling class . Simplistically , what have you in common with the British (Scottish ) ruling class ? Conversely what have you got in common with your fellow European , Asian etc working classes ?

In answer to your questions:

Simplistically , what have you in common with the British (Scottish ) ruling class?

About as much as I do with a Marxist.

Conversely what have you got in common with your fellow European , Asian etc working classes ?

Quite a lot. However, having something in common with another group does not have anything to do with nationality.

Having a nationality provides specific legal rights that are recognised by all the countries in the United Nations. (even you have these legal rights). That is why if you are in trouble in another country, for example, you can go to the UK Embassy. But I guess you

[TheDeeDon]

Just back fae the polling station. I opted for SNP and Rise and there was me adamant I wouldn't vote SNP this time :blue:

[leontrotsky]

Your answer only serves to prove we have no nationality.Legal rights should be common rights for all but because of the lie of nationality we need these....ahem .....organisations . Its a label to keep you tied , thats what it is . Whether the put a decent face on it doesnt change anything . Nationality is a con . You think there's always been a "Scotland "? for sure a land mass . Why did these nations come into being ? Thats right , ruling classes carved them up for their benefit , not yours . And called you Scottish . Told you you may be getting ****ed by us but at least your not English . Its nonsense min . The Brits or Scots who enslave us can go **** themselves . Your "brothers and sisters " all over the world are fed same lie . They need you to believe that .

[WestCoastDon]

[quote="leontrotsky" all over the world are fed same lie . They need you to believe that .
[/quote]

So what rights do people with "no nationality" have? where do they get these rights? where are they recognised? who recognises them? who enforces them?

To go

[ragnarok]

Working class is an arbitrary term. By the strict marxist definition it includes anyone who sells their labour (i.e. is on someone else's payroll).

So a senior manager on £80k a year is technically being exploited by his employer while the guy who owns and runs the local chipper at an annual profit of £30k/year is exploiting the part time staff he employs at £5/hour.

Thaty's why the equally arbitrary term petite bourgeoisie was coined - because Marxists don't like the fact that some people are quite happy to sell their labour on market.

[Barnared]

2 things I've noticed.

1 - there are quite a few tory voting scumbags still lingering around this poor country.
2 - people still don't seem to understand what it means to have 2 votes and how that actually effects who gets a seat.

[ragnarok]

Hardly surprising that the Scottish Tory vote is holding up given that it's the group of voters least likely to vote SNP. And now that Scottish Labour has become more or less pointless, they're bound to pick up a portion of the unionist vote.

[Brian Grantland]

Tories have historically done well in rural areas and with the screw up of the computer system the SNP put in place to manage payments leading to massive delays in farming people getting their EU rebates it wouldn't be a shock to see them do well in those types of constituency, especially in the borders and lowlands with the proximity of rUK and cross border trade.

[Stoney_Scarfer]

Jackie the Hut wins in Dumbarton Constituency!!! I mean what the actual Phuck!!!

Mason 89 winna be a happy chappy.

Mason, I think you need to go oot the day and hiv a word wi a few of the locals
(fars the double face palm smiley)
:blue:

[Geoff_Tipps™]

Tories win in Aberdeen West??

[Aldo1983]

Jackie the Hutt (cheers Mason) wins and Sarwar gets in via the list. ****e night overall.

[Steve1903]

F uck me, canna believe Dumbarton voted for the fat cow.

What is clear is that our election method is far more democratic than the UK first past the post. Cameron gets a majority with 38.6% while the SNP are failing to secure that with 47%.

[WestCoastDon]

F uck me, canna believe Dumbarton voted for the fat cow.

What is clear is that our election method is far more democratic than the UK first past the post. Cameron gets a majority with 38.6% while the SNP are failing to secure that with 47%.

Personally, I am not sure what is democratic that a party like the Greens wins no constituency seats and the Lib Dems win some (which is far harder to do), but get more MSP's that the Lib Dems. Also, how come the SNP win almost as much as the Tories and Labour together in the list vote (edit: in the Highlands) and get no MSP's.

No system is perfect but I don't understand this list system.

[Mason89]

She ran (or waddled) a simple campaign. There's 2 vote winners round here. Keep the Vale hospital & Faslane open. She wouldn't shut up about either in that horrible fake whiny voice of hers. She also had the help of the Orange Order believe it or not, who would rather vote for a Tim than a seperaist.

Shameful stuff from Dumbarton & I can't apologise enough. On the plus side, maybe now she'll let Solo & the Wookie free

[Aldo1983]

Did Kezia get back in via the list? I don't actually mind her so I hope she does. I'd feel sorry for her.

She's basically the Mixu of Scottish politics.

Sarwar getting in makes me feel physically sick though. His smugness could choke a horse.

[Barnared]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

[SimmieFour]

Tories have historically done well in rural areas and with the screw up of the computer system the SNP put in place to manage payments leading to massive delays in farming people getting their EU rebates it wouldn't be a shock to see them do well in those types of constituency, especially in the borders and lowlands with the proximity of rUK and cross border trade.

The SNP making a c*nt of actual government? Surely not

XD

[WestCoastDon]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

You do yourself no favours with your language on this thread... calling people for using their democratic right scumbags (voting Tory) and retards (voting for two different parties), just because you do not agree with them shows more about you than these voters.

I do not vote but I have no problem with anyone that does for whichever party.

[SimmieFour]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

You do yourself no favours with your language on this thread... calling people for using their democratic right scumbags (voting Tory) and retards (voting for two different parties), just because you do not agree with them shows more about you than these voters.

I do not vote but I have no problem with anyone that does for whichever party. [/quote]

I'd imagine he wouldn't be slow in calling others "fascist" either XD

[Mason89]

My mate runs a takeaway next door to Jackie Baillies office.

Another 5 years he'll be able to retire and live like a king

[Barnared]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

You do yourself no favours with your language on this thread... calling people for using their democratic right scumbags (voting Tory) and retards (voting for two different parties), just because you do not agree with them shows more about you than these voters.

I do not vote but I have no problem with anyone that does for whichever party. [/quote]

It's my democratic right to call ANY tory voter a phukin dirty scumbag. Or someone a retard who doesn't yet understand how Scotlands PR system works and how it will always translate into seats. As you rightly point out.

Edit - to add, I find when discussing fitba, things are not generally black and white and opinions vary and indeed changs so much

[Herman]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

It's a relatively affluent area, it shouldn't be that surprising there's Tories around. And you're completely kidding yourself if you think all SNP voters are left wing. it would be no surprise at all to see SNP voters using their second vote for the tories. Aberdeenshire in general has never been left wing.

[Aldo1983]

Don't think it is your right but on you go.

[TheDeeDon]

Our parliament is set up to ensure we don't end up with some ****ised verion of westminster, It is not perfect, but I would rather have it than the terribly outdated first past the post system used by our London masters, which is very undemocratic in my opinion.

Only 55% of the registered voters, voted, I find that sad, but not surprised. Tories usually always vote, regardless of how the party is doing, they may change who they cast their vote for, but they always vote, not a bad thing, it would appear that they have went from Labour to Tory, which says a lot about the state of the Labour party and what it stands for or at least what it stood for, nobody really knows what purpose they actually serve now, there remaining voters are probably folk who remember or were brought up by parents who benefitted greatly from the glory days of the pre war Labour party, only to see their kids throw it all away.

We need to have a system, where if turnout is below say 80%, then the result doesn

[WestCoastDon]

It's my democratic right to call ANY tory voter a phukin dirty scumbag. Or someone a retard who doesn't yet understand how Scotlands PR system works and how it will always translate into seats. As you rightly point out.

Edit - to add, I find when discussing fitba, things are not generally black and white and opinions vary and indeed changs so much which is a good thing. I've found over the years that discussing politics is much simpler in fact. Pretty black and white really and not too confusing. I form a very simple opinion that there are parties for politically minded scumbags and parties for those that aren't.

never compare politics with football... it is something that actually matters in people's lives, has groups in it that you can laugh at, make fun of, get passionate over, argue over the smallest points, believe what people are saying and hard work is rewarded and the other is politics ;)

[Barnared]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

It's a relatively affluent area, it shouldn't be that surprising there's Tories around. And you're completely kidding yourself if you think all SNP voters are left wing. it would be no surprise at all to see SNP voters using their second vote for the tories. Aberdeenshire in general has never been left wing.[/quote]

I'm not sure who you think would suggest that the majority of SNP support is left wing !?

Anyway, no this is precisely my 2nd point. There are "retards" out there who would vote with one paper for the ruling party and with another paper for the opposition! In the same election!

[Barnared]

It's my democratic right to call ANY tory voter a phukin dirty scumbag. Or someone a retard who doesn't yet understand how Scotlands PR system works and how it will always translate into seats. As you rightly point out.

Edit - to add, I find when discussing fitba, things are not generally black and white and opinions vary and indeed changs so much which is a good thing. I've found over the years that discussing politics is much simpler in fact. Pretty black and white really and not too confusing. I form a very simple opinion that there are parties for politically minded scumbags and parties for those that aren't.

never compare politics with football[/quote]
XD witty but I didn't though did I? I likened them to both being topics that could be discussed. Same as ice cream flavours and favourite car models.

[WestCoastDon]

[quote="TheDeeDon"]Our parliament is set up to ensure we don't end up with some ****ised verion of westminster, It is not perfect, but I would rather have it than the terribly outdated first past the post system used by our London masters, which is very undemocratic in my opinion.

Only 55% of the registered voters, voted, I find that sad, but not surprised. Tories usually always vote, regardless of how the party is doing, they may change who they cast their vote for, but they always vote, not a bad thing, it would appear that they have went from Labour to Tory, which says a lot about the state of the Labour party and what it stands for or at least what it stood for, nobody really knows what purpose they actually serve now, there remaining voters are probably folk who remember or were brought up by parents who benefitted greatly from the glory days of the pre war Labour party, only to see their kids throw it all away.

We need to have a system, where if tur

[WestCoastDon]

Anyway, no this is precisely my 2nd point. There are "retards" out there who would vote with one paper for the ruling party and with another paper for the opposition! In the same election!

In Aberdeen/shire, the SNP got more votes than the Tories and Labour together in the list. They got zero list MSP's, whereas the Tories got 4 and Labour got 1? Therefore all those second votes for the SNP actually helped the Tories and Labour... which is exactly the opposite to what the people voting SNP wanted. Another reason why I just don't get the list vote.

So, I do not see the problem if someone voted for the SNP in the constituency vote and Green in the list vote to try and reduce the chances of the Tories or Labour getting a MSP through the list if they were a SNP voter. In this case, would it not be better to vote Green as the second vote if you wanted a SNP government and less opposition from Labour/Tory?

[WestCoastDon]

XD witty but I didn't though did I? I likened them to both being topics that could be discussed. Same as ice cream flavours and favourite car models.

Vanilla and E-Type Jag.

[Barnared]

@westcoastdon
Mint choc chip and a countach please.

@ OBI
I understand fully how the votes have been spread and the total voting numbers for the snp are very impressive. It is a fact however that the Scottish version of PR is based on individual areas and not just total number of votes. It is striking that the SNP have almost DOUBLE the total amount of list votes than the torys but that translates to only 4 seats to the torys staggering 24! The labour list numbers are equally staggering.

It isn't opinion, it is blatantly obvious that Conservative voters (for discussion purposes they will be known as dirty phukin scumbags) have voted x2 (const. and region) and the people who have voted the SNP in, in virtually every constituency, have handed their second vote to another party, in certain areas. This is where my retarded insult comes in because in these areas, these people either voted with one paper for the leaders and the other paper for the opposition or they voted for the

[Buc]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

It's a relatively affluent area, it shouldn't be that surprising there's Tories around. And you're completely kidding yourself if you think all SNP voters are left wing. it would be no surprise at all to see SNP voters using their second vote for the tories. Aberdeenshire in general has never been left wing.[/quote]






I don't know one SNP voter who used their second vote to the Tories..

I myself SNP1& Greens 2 the Greens got a big number of votes from Nationalists and I know quite a number who were like myself.

[WestCoastDon]

@westcoastdon
Mint choc chip and a countach please.



Countach is easy. It's in the post...

http://s32.postimg.org/xqw4g2vr9/Michael_Racing_Car_red_1000x1000.jpg

[Brian Grantland]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

It's a relatively affluent area, it shouldn't be that surprising there's Tories around. And you're completely kidding yourself if you think all SNP voters are left wing. it would be no surprise at all to see SNP voters using their second vote for the tories. Aberdeenshire in general has never been left wing.[/quote]






I don't know one SNP voter who used their second vote to the Tories..

I myself SNP1& Greens 2 the Greens got a big number of votes from Nationalists and I know quite a number who were like myself.[/quote]

you can't know every snp voter

[Brian Grantland]

Only 55% of the registered voters, voted, I find that sad, but not surprised...

We need to have a system, where if turnout is below say 80%, then the result doesn't stand, contary to what people might think life would go on without voting for an MP/MSP. Make the annointed b@stards earn our votes before they get on the gravy train...


I still think it was a good result for them overall.

I think Josh Lyman said it best
https://youtu.be/7rIE0cT54yU?t=35s

Oh and despite not having an actual majority (de facto tho) I think in the long term you may be right about it being a good night for the snp, they will have to change from binary politics and they've overseen the end of Labour in Scottish politics.

[Aldo1983]

Did Kezia get back in via the list? I don't actually mind her so I hope she does. I'd feel sorry for her.

She's basically the Mixu of Scottish politics.

Sarwar getting in makes me feel physically sick though. His smugness could choke a horse.

Scottish Labour leader not winning their seat. Seems to be a pattern nowadays.
Unimaginable once upon a time :blue:

[/quote]


She's still an MSP through the list. It is a bizarre set up but I get that it's to prevent a majority so can't all be bad. Ruth Davidson was list MSP up until this morning.

Just seems a little undemocratic when people are being paid to represent the public when nobody voted for them.

Basically I just hate Sarwar.

[Brian Grantland]

sarwar is one of only 2 ethnic minorities out of 129 msps
that's fairly sh1t

[Brian Grantland]

Be a journey but they need to be a party of the left again.
If they can aggressively go at the SNP from the left and they can chip away locally with the right local people and that will offer the route back.
Never be as dominant as they were tho.

[Buc]

Labour have a mountain to climb but the climb will be too much.
They have had things their way in Scotland for far too long with people turning up at the polling stations supporting them like robots times have now changed I would say we in Scotland now know more about politics than we did a few years back ..

The SNP are here for the long haul.

[Mason89]

Just like to withdraw my previous apology on behalf of the good people of Dumbarton.

I didn't realise we were lumped in with all the Nigels from Helensburgh. There's your Jackie Baillie votes right there.

[Geoff_Tipps™]

Is there anything stopping the SNP and Greens forming a coalition?

[Brian Grantland]

yes
the greens would want no fracking enshrined in law

[Brian Grantland]

Just like to withdraw my previous apology on behalf of the good people of Dumbarton.

I didn't realise we were lumped in with all the Nigels from Helensburgh. There's your Jackie Baillie votes right there.

I used to work with a girl from Helensburgh
She was common as muck.
Can't all be posh...

[Mason89]

Theres a shyte bit up the back but there's a world of a difference between a Helensburgh shytehole and one from Coatbridge for example.

She won by 109 votes.

She wouldn't have got near that without Helensburgh

[DandyDons1903]

Just like to withdraw my previous apology on behalf of the good people of Dumbarton.

I didn't realise we were lumped in with all the Nigels from Helensburgh. There's your Jackie Baillie votes right there.

It says all you need to know about Labour these days that Jackie Baillie was the Shadow Health Minister. A woman in charge of Scotland's health service that can't even look after her own weight.




I used to work with a girl from Helensburgh
She was common as muck.
Can't all be posh...

In Helensburgh a 5 minute walk can take you from a multi-million pound mansion to a zombie apocalypse of a housing estate.

[Mason89]

Even the zombie apocalypse of Kirkmichael would look down their noses at Westcliff, Castlehill & Brucehill

Posh Helensburgh Jackie voting ****s >:)

[Brian Grantland]

IIRC loads of hun players lived there in the 80s/90s
Still true?

[Mason89]

IIRC loads of hun players lived there in the 80s/90s
Still true?

I've no idea. I wouldn't recognise any.

Walter Smith, Judas Robertson & a few of their English players lived out there for a while

[Brian Grantland]

That's actually a good point
Neither would I

[Aldo1983]

I didn't even realise Jo Swinson wasn't even on the list till late last night. She's been writing letters to voters since she lost her seat at the Nationals. Even the good people in the nice part of Dunbartonshire don't even like her anymore XD

[mondo_notion]

IIRC loads of hun players lived there in the 80s/90s
Still true?

I saw Walter Smith walking his dog on the water front about 20 years ago. Well at least it looked like him.

Your welcome.

[Steve1903]

Just like to withdraw my previous apology on behalf of the good people of Dumbarton.

I didn't realise we were lumped in with all the Nigels from Helensburgh. There's your Jackie Baillie votes right there.

The Nigels up there are mainly tory w@nkers. Is she the reason Dumbarton has two Greggs?

[Brian Grantland]

is that humza fella laying the pipe to 'queen nicola'
looked affa pally and he looked a little disheveled

[scapegoat]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

You do yourself no favours with your language on this thread... calling people for using their democratic right scumbags (voting Tory) and retards (voting for two different parties), just because you do not agree with them shows more about you than these voters.

I do not vote but I have no problem with anyone that does for whichever party. [/quote]

It's my democratic right to call ANY tory voter a phukin dirty scumbag. Or someone a retard who doesn't yet understand how Scotlands PR system works and how it will always translate into seats. As you rightly point out.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that you understand the Scottish electoral system. Would you li

[Barnared]

Aye but Ruths a Tory!

LABOUR leader in SCOTLAND needing a list save, christ.

They are now like the jute, canna see how they can come back up.


What Ruth Davidson did was fairly shocking, in my opinion.
She gave up the seat that she had always stood for in Glasgow as she was sh!tting it. She didn't have the guts to stand in her own constituency and she choose to run for an Edinburgh seat that the Torys thought to be one of the safest going and of course she had the back up of being No 1 on the Tory list.

There are some big flaws with the PR list system in Scotland. It was designed by the main parties of the era, to allow the elite politicians to rule indefinitely and to allow for the creation of crony career politicians. We have politicians in Scotland now that we can NEVER get rid of, no matter what they do or how bad they are and some will just appear on the scene, chosen by their respective party rulers, to work a

[Barnared]

I'm not sure that you understand the Scottish electoral system

I'm pretty sure I have a fair grasp of how the Scottish electoral system works, thanks.
I haven't said that splitting your vote is inherently a bad thing, if you understand what will happen by doing so.

[leontrotsky]

"So what rights do people with "no nationality" have? where do they get these rights? where are they recognised? who recognises them? who enforces them?

To go back to your "truism" that workers have no nationality... You can tell me your beliefs... but you need to provide proof. I can provide proof of nationality in law. Where is your proof?

So it may be your belief but it is still not true."

So as you understand , nations have always existed ? They are natural phenomenon ? They haven't been artificially created ?

[leontrotsky]

From the comrades
Election in Scotland sees SNP surge continue


- view external link (https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/42701/Election+in+Scotland+sees+SNP+surge+continue)

[scapegoat]

I'm not sure that you understand the Scottish electoral system

I'm pretty sure I have a fair grasp of how the Scottish electoral system works, thanks.
I haven't said that splitting your vote is inherently a bad thing, if you understand what will happen by doing so.[/quote]

You stated in post 10 that "2 votes each and some retards are voting for 2 different partys. A bit like buying a season ticket for Pittodrie and a half season ticket at mcdairmid park...."

I would argue that voting SNP/SNP in the north east is effectively wasting your 2nd vote as they won all but one of the constituency seats. Hey but what do I know, I'm only some retard.

[InversneckieDob]

I think the list/PR thing is a long road for a short cut.

It does counter-balance the first past the post system, but it can be played, as sensible-shoes and co have proved.

Imagine the great election winning machine of days past needing a PR system to bring them back to something approaching three doors down from relevance.

Now that, Alanis, is ironic.

[Buc]

yes
the greens would want no fracking enshrined in law






And fracking will not happen under the SNP government..

It looks to me the best option with the Greens if indeed they decide to go down that route.. - view external link (http://www.thenational.scot/politics/fracking-ban-means-it-aint-happening---sturgeon.14604)

[Buc]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

It's a relatively affluent area, it shouldn't be that surprising there's Tories around. And you're completely kidding yourself if you think all SNP voters are left wing. it would be no surprise at all to see SNP voters using their second vote for the tories. Aberdeenshire in general has never been left wing.[/quote]






I don't know one SNP voter who used their second vote to the Tories..

I myself SNP1& Greens 2 the Greens got a big number of votes from Nationalists and I know quite a number who were like myself.[/quote]

you can't know every snp voter[/quote]






No but have you seen my Faceboo

[Brian Grantland]

yes
the greens would want no fracking enshrined in law






And fracking will not happen under the SNP government..

It looks to me the best option with the Greens if indeed they decide to go down that route.. [/quote]

Why not put in place then if its not a stumbling block

I don't think anything is off the table,

[Brian Grantland]

So....Aberdeen (and shire) is FULL of Tory scum.

You might be one, you might be sitting next to one.

Imagine waking up a Tory voting scumbag.

That sh!t doesn't wash off you know.

It's a relatively affluent area, it shouldn't be that surprising there's Tories around. And you're completely kidding yourself if you think all SNP voters are left wing. it would be no surprise at all to see SNP voters using their second vote for the tories. Aberdeenshire in general has never been left wing.[/quote]






I don't know one SNP voter who used their second vote to the Tories..

I myself SNP1& Greens 2 the Greens got a big number of votes from Nationalists and I know quite a number who were like myself.[/quote]

you can't know every snp voter[/quote]

[Brian Grantland]

Aye but Ruths a Tory!

LABOUR leader in SCOTLAND needing a list save, christ.

They are now like the jute, canna see how they can come back up.


What Ruth Davidson did was fairly shocking, in my opinion.
She gave up the seat that she had always stood for in Glasgow as she was sh!tting it. She didn't have the guts to stand in her own constituency and she choose to run for an Edinburgh seat that the Torys thought to be one of the safest going and of course she had the back up of being No 1 on the Tory list.

There are some big flaws with the PR list system in Scotland. It was designed by the main parties of the era, to allow the elite politicians to rule indefinitely and to allow for the creation of crony career politicians. We have politicians in Scotland now that we can NEVER get rid of, no matter what they do or how bad they are and some will just appear on the scene, chosen

[Buc]

yes
the greens would want no fracking enshrined in law






And fracking will not happen under the SNP government..

It looks to me the best option with the Greens if indeed they decide to go down that route.. [/quote]

Why not put in place then if its not a stumbling block

I don't think anything is off the table, [/quote]



You always need to discuss things in the proper manner as the parties in question are representing their voters and the Greens will be well aware they got a fair amount of the SNP 2 vote.

But in time we will find out. Until then you are right nothing is off the table .

[Buc]

Aye but Ruths a Tory!

LABOUR leader in SCOTLAND needing a list save, christ.

They are now like the jute, canna see how they can come back up.


What Ruth Davidson did was fairly shocking, in my opinion.
She gave up the seat that she had always stood for in Glasgow as she was sh!tting it. She didn't have the guts to stand in her own constituency and she choose to run for an Edinburgh seat that the Torys thought to be one of the safest going and of course she had the back up of being No 1 on the Tory list.

There are some big flaws with the PR list system in Scotland. It was designed by the main parties of the era, to allow the elite politicians to rule indefinitely and to allow for the creation of crony career politicians. We have politicians in Scotland now that we can NEVER get rid of, no matter what they do or how bad they a

[WestCoastDon]

"So what rights do people with "no nationality" have? where do they get these rights? where are they recognised? who recognises them? who enforces them?

To go back to your "truism" that workers have no nationality... You can tell me your beliefs... but you need to provide proof. I can provide proof of nationality in law. Where is your proof?

So it may be your belief but it is still not true."

So as you understand , nations have always existed ? They are natural phenomenon ? They haven't been artificially created ?

Not want to answer my questions then?

I did not say that nations had always existed... But they do now... and its no conspiracy, it makes life easier, more efficient, provides a "single market" with single laws, single currency etc. We have laws, we have lawyers, police, army, united nations, nation states etc. all providing citizens of countries rights and enforcing laws. We can negotiate deals b

[WestCoastDon]

yes
the greens would want no fracking enshrined in law

And fracking will not happen under the SNP government..

[/quote]

If oil had only been found now in the North Sea would the SNP say they would not allow drilling? I just cannot understand on the one hand that the SNP are wanting to grow the economy but on the other when natural resources are found that could assist they run a mile for their own reasons.

If this were an economic argument then I would understand it... Why not get fracking working in Scotland and get Salmond's much loved national wealth fund going. Perhaps it would get more oil workers from Aberdeen employed in this country on good salaries at a time when the North Sea is getting harder economically.

[WestCoastDon]

Do you actually believe this stuff, if so
Wow

I think that's a well written post.and yes I do agree with it.:O

My analysis on the post is:

The first paragraph to me makes no sense. Every party will do and does what it can to maximise its political gain in elections. It is not the first time and not the last that a politician takes on a seat that they think they can win. However, in this case, the Tories did come 4th last time and then went on to win. The Lib Dems, for example, have for years concentrated their resources in the few seats they think they can win. They were massively outspent by Labour but concentrated on a few seats in this election and as a result got more "first past the post" seats than Labour.

The second paragraph is 100% correct. If we had the list system in the UK General Election, then Ed Balls and Michael Portillo would still be in Parliam

[Buc]

yes
the greens would want no fracking enshrined in law

And fracking will not happen under the SNP government..

[/quote]

If oil had only been found now in the North Sea would the SNP say they would not allow drilling? I just cannot understand on the one hand that the SNP are wanting to grow the economy but on the other when natural resources are found that could assist they run a mile for their own reasons.

If this were an economic argument then I would understand it... Why not get fracking working in Scotland and get Salmond's much loved national wealth fund going. Perhaps it would get more oil workers from Aberdeen employed in this country on good salaries at a time when the North Sea is getting harder economically.
[/quote]




Fracking why not to . - [url=http://www.alternet.org/environment/8-dangerous-side-effects-frac

[WestCoastDon]

@Buc - so you ban it because it could have an environmental issue, which has still to be proven?

I still don't get this. Why not ban lithium ion batteries that are used in laptops and electric/hybrid cars. The damage caused by using nickel/cobalt/lithium is well known and proven.

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Design for the Environment program concluded that batteries using nickel and cobalt, like lithium-ion batteries, have the “highest potential for environmental impacts”. It cited negative consequences like mining, global warming, environmental pollution and human health impacts."

All economic activity has an impact on the environment. What is needed is regulation to minimise the risks... whether from fracking or batteries.

Nah, what we get is the usual political hubris of banning something that has not happened yet that no one will miss for political advantage. - [url=http://www.theguardian.com/*****-signs/2015/jun/10/tesla-batteries-environment-lithium-el

[Buc]

From the Guardian :O - view external link (http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/feb/14/environment.highereducation)

[InversneckieDob]

Aye but Ruths a Tory!

LABOUR leader in SCOTLAND needing a list save, christ.

They are now like the jute, canna see how they can come back up.


What Ruth Davidson did was fairly shocking, in my opinion.
She gave up the seat that she had always stood for in Glasgow as she was sh!tting it. She didn't have the guts to stand in her own constituency and she choose to run for an Edinburgh seat that the Torys thought to be one of the safest going and of course she had the back up of being No 1 on the Tory list.

There are some big flaws with the PR list system in Scotland. It was designed by the main parties of the era, to allow the elite politicians to rule indefinitely and to allow for the creation of crony career politicians. We have politicians in Scotland now that we can NEVER get rid of, no

[InversneckieDob]

As I said, I think that the Tories have the potential to be the largest single party in Scotland within 20 years. I got lambasted for even suggesting this after the referendum and again before this election but most would probably agree after yesterday that this could be a potential. As some point the SNP will win less seats than another party... it will happen within the next 20 years and it will be either Labour or Tory that are that party.




I don't know if I see that, certainly nae in the next 20 years.

I think it is a fair point that the Scottish Tories have done a good job distancing themselves from the Old Etonian Cabal dahn sarf, which has helped.

Also, as has been said, they played the system very well.
Remember, on the back of the most spectacular collapse of the Labour vote in a couple of generations (UK wise, in Scotland possibly ever) the Tories still polled less votes in Scotland than Labour did.

[57vintage]

On fracking:

A "moratorium" may well have been a delaying tactic by the previous administration until the election was out of the way, so as not to upset the green wing of the party and the potential for gathering green votes from their natural home.

With a majority, it would have been easy to predict that a new administration would do INEOS's bidding, and take the flak. Five years is a long time to spin other populist policy introductions and retain a vote. Never forget that the first priority of any administration is to ensure its own continuity beyond the next election.

The dynamic now means that the new administration may have to rely on guaranteed support from the Tories if they (and/or INEOS) decide to begin to grant licences.

There may be a quite a bit of unsavoury (to some) 'shoulder-to-shoulder' mini-alliances on particular issues to come.

[Pacman1903]

I didnt vote for the first time in my voting life as i didnt want to vote for any of them.

If i had voted it would have been a waste as i would have been voting for the best of a bad bunch and i dont agree with doing that

First time ive ever been of that opinion

[TheDeeDon]

I was thinking the same Vintage, but surely Sturgeon wouldn't ever be foolish enough to EVER get into bed with the tories...? I still think the Greens will support the SNP on most issues, but the fracking question needs to be resolved

I think it will be an interesting few years ahead of us

[leontrotsky]

i did answer your question ! States are artificial entities set up by rulers to protect their interests . That is why we have no nationality . All you have told us is the mechanisms of the state . We all know how thw state works

[terenceandphilip]

its so funny that people think conservative voters are 'closet tories' etc.

[WestCoastDon]

i did answer your question ! States are artificial entities set up by rulers to protect their interests . That is why we have no nationality . All you have told us is the mechanisms of the state . We all know how thw state works

We do have a nationality. That is the fact. Even if rulers created states in order to protect their interests (which is factually wrong) it does not mean that we have no nationality. Just cos you don't like something does not mean it isn't true.

I think you have been smoking to much Marx.

[Landvetter83]

I turned 18 years old in August 1982.

Before Thursday, I had only ever once in my life seen the candidate I voted for actually win a seat.

Alexander Burnett, well done sir.

Although my "team" did nae bad on Thursday I'm under no illusion at all that the fundamentals of politics in Scotland will ever change from left of centre in my lifetime. Ruth Davidson fought with a clever strategy and appealed to the "No" voters - it succeeded.

[leontrotsky]

WEST COAST "We do have a nationality. That is the fact. Even if rulers created states in order to protect their interests (which is factually wrong) it does not mean that we have no nationality. Just cos you don't like something does not mean it isn't true.

I think you have been smoking to much Marx."

Heymin , As i say we don't and i back my statement up , unlike you . then again how can you ?

Anyway , election ;Has anything changed ?
Quite interesting stats in todays herald ;
Overall votes 4,564,905
pro indy 2,202,326 48.2%
pro union 2,320,194 50.8%
others 42,385 1%

This all votes , constitutional and regional .Still giving a overall pro union , the assumption being that the SNP , greens and noble leftist parties support independence. .Obviously in the referendum we got one vote , if we go along the regional ;
Indy 1,129,257 49.4%
union 1,125,851 49.3%
constitutional;
indy 1,073,069 47%
union 1,194,343 52%
(other

[simarooskimoose]

I didnt vote for the first time in my voting life as i didnt want to vote for any of them.

If i had voted it would have been a waste as i would have been voting for the best of a bad bunch and i dont agree with doing that

First time ive ever been of that opinion

I was of a similar mind, but I went in and spoiled my ballot paper. I think that makes more of a statement (albeit a hilariously minor one) than just not turning up.

Imagine a scenario where you had two million intentionally spoiled ballots, 'none of the above' or the classic cock and balls option. That'd be a boot up the arse of the establishment far more than those same people just not voting, which is what happened this time.

[simarooskimoose]

What Ruth Davidson did was fairly shocking, in my opinion.
She gave up the seat that she had always stood for in Glasgow as she was sh!tting it. She didn't have the guts to stand in her own constituency and she choose to run for an Edinburgh seat that the Torys thought to be one of the safest going and of course she had the back up of being No 1 on the Tory list.


Also, this is nonsense. The Tories never really anticipated winning Edinburgh Central. They finished FOURTH there in 2011. Even on the Wednesday before the vote, when they were predicting they'd overtake Labour based on their internal polling, they were still only talking about coming second in Edinburgh Central - and that was being talked about proudly as a good result. Nobody foresaw the Green vote taking enough out of the SNP for the Tories to actually nab it (something the Nats themselves are f*cking fuming about).

If she'd wanted a safe seat she'd have just

[InversneckieDob]

Totally fair comment, that.

The electoral system in Scotland was designed to make a majority pretty close to impossible, in theory, I think, to usher in more grown up, consensus based, politics.
It might.....a long way down the line, but for that to happen the main parties need much more local autonomy.
Labour is going to pay for a long time for standing shoulder to shoulder and high-fiving with their Tory mates during the Indy plebiscite.

[gruppenfuhrer]

on the smaller paper i put a big X over it as not party is worth voting for

[Brian Grantland]

I see the ferret has a story about ineos hiring senior staff for fracking in Central Scotland.

Nothing to see here, move along...

[57vintage]

I see the ferret has a story about ineos hiring senior staff for fracking in Central Scotland.

Nothing to see here, move along...

An interesting day (for once) in Holyrood yesterday.

"We're jist nae playing" by the government.

XD

[Brian Grantland]

http://i68.tinypic.com/2943yfa.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/73nwch.jpg

Slightly embarrassing one would say

[Ted_Maul]

I'd say the anti-science guff peddled by anti-frackers is more embarrassing than the SNP's stance. They support a moratorium and a consultation is ongoing - not following due process could lead to a judicial review.

Rather than kow-towing to cretinous middle class greens and the tinfoil hat brigade concerned about earthquakes, evil big business or taps going on fire, I wish the Scottish Government would frack on. Thousands have been laid off in the North East...and they have the transferable skills which could be used onshore for this industry.

Re: Ash Denham. Amazing how that hypocritical Common Weal muppet managed to get elected in Edinburgh Eastern. A socialist who doesn't like educational inequality? Then why not send your kids to private school!

[fatshaft]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-blowhards/#more-85709

Sorry you just slavishly followed the MSM lie there Brian

[Brian Grantland]

Don't read his nonsense min fatshaft and defo won't give him the clicks

Maybe u can let me on what I've fallen for...

[Devanha Red]

Here we go again.

[Devanha Red]

its so funny that people think conservative voters are 'closet tories' etc.

Huns. No ifs or buts.

[Devanha Red]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-blowhards/#more-85709

Sorry you just slavishly followed the MSM lie there Brian

Just who is this fatshaft cat and why does he have Paul Elliot as his profile picture.

[57vintage]

Just who is this fatshaft

Pro-Kingsford happy clapper.

[Devanha Red]

Pro-Kingsford happy clapper.

Best left on the scrapheap then.