O/T EU Vote In/Out

[Stupie82]

With only 9 days to go, I'm just interested to see how folk will vote next Thursday.


A nice simple, In, Out, Not sure or Not voting.

To kick it off :

Out

[Aldo1983]

Don't know yet.

I may well vote out.

[Jupiter]

I'm definitely voting out, the EU has been a big failure, but I expect in to win.

[Mason89]

In

[Aldo1983]

Changed my mind, I'm voting in now ;)

[Pacman1903]

In

Financial experts are the ones to listen to and there aint many sayin its a good thing. The politicians are w@nkers and i wouldnt listen to one word any single one said.

[gervaise_brookhampst]

In .........I'm counting the votes again, hope to f u c k it doesn't drag on like the last count, by 5am my eyes and brain were having a serious falling oot. :(

[Aldo1983]

In

Financial experts are the ones to listen to and there aint many sayin its a good thing. The politicians are w@nkers and i wouldnt listen to one word any single one said.

Those pesky financial experts again. The ones that never predict when things go chebs up.

[Mason89]

Changed my mind, I'm voting in now ;)

Good lad :D

[Pacman1903]

I believe the pesky c@nts

[Brian Grantland]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/brexit-fears-wipe-20-billion-off-ftse-100-in-shares-meltdown-a3271356.html

[GlezgaRed]

Have already voted by post....Out.

[mondo_notion]

Not going to vote I don't think. If anything I'd vote out purely for the increased chance of another Indy vote.

[Brian Grantland]

Not going to vote I don't think. If anything I'd vote out purely for the increased chance of another Indy vote.

Explain this one if you will, you would vote to leave a Union to potentially hasten the potential to leave another Union, whereby the Country would then look to be admitted to the Union you originally voted to leave.
(But at substantially less advantageous terms and conditions.)

Is that right?

[AberdeenArnold]

I'm voting in.

If you want to change any club for the better then you need to be a member to do so.

[Jupiter]

I'm still waiting to hear somebody say, "we should stay in, the EU is really great".

[Stupie82]

I'm voting in.

If you want to change any club for the better then you need to be a member to do so.

Unless said club is powerless to change, because it is effectively run by a higher power that is untouchable and needs all the members to agree to any sort of change.

[mondo_notion]

Explain this one if you will, you would vote to leave a Union to potentially hasten the potential to leave another Union, whereby the Country would then look to be admitted to the Union you originally voted to leave.
(But at substantially less advantageous terms and conditions.)

Is that right?

You've got it, pretty straight forward really.

[Stupie82]

Pulled this from a poster on yougov, so cant claim any credit, but nonetheless interesting and outlines their reason behind wanting to leave the EU


Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.


Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name one major technology company still running in the UK after the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

[TheDeeDon]

Out. Like the idea of Europe, but need to rip up the blue print and start again from scratch . If we vote to leave and I don't think we will I think a few more countries will follow. We will change nothing otherwise and as for the advice of the 'financial experts'...No thanks!

[ragnarok]

I'm voting in.

If you want to change any club for the better then you need to be a member to do so.

This is a commonly cited reason for voting in but where is the power/impetus to enact change going to come from?

Don't assume you'll be asked again. If you disapprove of the EU in its current form, the only way to vote is Leave. I don't think that voting Remain in the expectation or hope that reform will take place is a realistic option when it is a system that is incredibly resistant to reform. The European leaders are only just starting to pay attention now that it looks like there's a fair chance Leave will win.

[Steve1903]

Let me see. According to the In folk, should we vote out our pension will be worth diddly, the pound will collapse, we will plunge into a recession, we'll all be out of work and the health service will go tits up.
Count me out then.

[Jupiter]

If we do stay in, what's to stop other countries walking all over us? We can't threaten to leave again.

[Brian Grantland]

If we do stay in, what's to stop other countries walking all over us? We can't threaten to leave again.

scotland does and we got a sweet heart deal from rUK recently

[NEM83]

I'm voting in.

If you want to change any club for the better then you need to be a member to do so.


lol that's a good one!



Out.

Love Europe, hate the corrupt dictatorship that is the EU.

[Stupie82]

If the out vote wins, it will be interesting to see how it effects David Cameron... IMO, his position would surely be untenable considering he is pro EU and called the referendum in the 1st place. It would also be interesting to see where it would leave Scotland on a second referendum.

Its obvious people think voting IN will be an easier option than voting OUT, mostly because folk fear change, but I cant see how staying in the EU can benefit us in the long term. For me, its a definite out vote and I think "out" will prevail on the day.

[Brian Grantland]

competing flotillas on the thames

geldof getting told to get a job by ukip

its gone beyond anything ianucci could write

[Aldo1983]

Even News Thump having a go at Farage today. Lazy **** hasn't once voted on anything that relates to the UK fisherman.

[Brian Grantland]

http://www.slideshare.net/IpsosMORI/european-union-the-perils-of-perception?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipsos-mori.com%2Fresearchpublications%2Fresearcharchive% 2F3742%2FThe-Perils-of-Perception-and-the-EU.aspx

[Buc]

I'm voting in.
Nicola says its best so I'm listening to the best.:O

[Brian Grantland]

I'm voting in.
Nicola says its best so I'm listening to the best.:O

On what pray tell buc is she the best?

economy, health, education?

[Jupiter]

I'm voting in.
Nicola says its best so I'm listening to the best.:O

Don't listen to Mrs Krankie, she's wrong about everything.

[gervaise_brookhampst]

Do listen to her (for a change >;))

[Buc]

On what pray tell buc is she the best?

economy, health, education?




Not just me Brian


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/06/nicola-sturgeon-second-queen-uk-forbes-worlds-most-powerful-women-list

[Buc]

Just to show how stunning Queen Nicola is here's proof.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3025973/Why-not-calling-Scotland-s-Lady-Krankie-Nicola-Sturgeon-living-proof-women-***ier-age-income-office.html


A we treat for the lads :heart:

[Buc]

And finally Nicola is the most popular politician in the UK.


http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13211668.Poll_shows_Sturgeon_is_now_the_most_popul ar_politician_across_Britain/


:O

[Brian Grantland]

Not just me Brian


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/06/nicola-sturgeon-second-queen-uk-forbes-worlds-most-powerful-women-list

she's on the list because of her position

but we have a failing education system - unbelievable two tier
failing nhs with waiting time targets never being hit
enormous social problems, inequality and lack of mobility
an economy in the ne that is being crippled by the oil price and where growth across all of scotland has stagnated tosuch a degree that economists are talking recession...

but she takes selphies with acolytes

genuinely buc where is the competence in government we kept hearing about

[Aldo1983]

Economists must be running the biggest carve up known to man.

[ragnarok]

The Remain camp may have played its hand too early. Leave seems to be gaining momentum at a critical moment. There won't be any last minute 'vow' on offer this time.

The dire economic prognostications have been out there for weeks. Maybe it will have an effect on polling day but I think that Remain has lost control of the debate.

Maybe a sufficient number of would be Leave voters will chicken out on the day. I think that's basically Remain's strategy henceforth: reinforce the message and keep your fingers crossed.

[Aldo1983]

http://i68.tinypic.com/2rfsu52.jpg

[Buc]

she's on the list because of her position

but we have a failing education system - unbelievable two tier
failing nhs with waiting time targets never being hit
enormous social problems, inequality and lack of mobility
an economy in the ne that is being crippled by the oil price and where growth across all of scotland has stagnated tosuch a degree that economists are talking recession...

but she takes selphies with acolytes

genuinely buc where is the competence in government we kept hearing about

I would just like to say firstly NHS and waiting times have vastly improved on Labours record. The Scottish attainment has increased to £750 million all this achieved with one hand tied behind their back .. Re the decreasing block grant

The economy oil & gas so much for the broad shoulders of the UK this has happened under their watch not the SNPs ...the enormous social problems inequality and lack of mobility basically the fault of WM austerity policies .. The SNP have tried to mitigate wherever they can IE bedroom tax Finally people just DONT return incompetent governments.

I would also like to say our London born and living in Stevenage niece had to pay thousands to go to university to become a lawyer
Raking up huge dept .

My son went to Glasgow uni free .all we had to pay for was his living expenses IE flat rental etc.

[TheDeeDon]

If the out vote wins, it will be interesting to see how it effects David Cameron... IMO, his position would surely be untenable considering he is pro EU and called the referendum in the 1st place. It would also be interesting to see where it would leave Scotland on a second referendum.

I want Sturgeon to quit also if Scotland votes to leave, but cannot see it. The SNP seem pretty good at brainwashing the party membership.

[Barnared]

It doesn't matter what any of us here vote. England will decide what happens to Scotland, as per.

[LED]

The EU is nothing more than a large (getting larger by the day ) political union which hoovers in vast amounts of money for unelected beurocrats to allocate as t hey seem fit.

We as an island are entirely disconnected from the " being a European" principle. Do you think the British people would have put up with the sanctions the EU have imposed on Greece. Greece are now told by the EU how they should run their budget and what taxes they should impose while also being told what public sector jobs need cutting and which industries need privatising. Yet still despite effectively an in or out election Greece chose to remain in.

In this ever increasing club the power to influence is eroded by more "states" being added who hold various vetoes depending on what is in their interest.
All this talk of Cameron regarding EU nationals not being able to claim welfare benefits for four years etc isn't even a law. It still has to be voted by........ You guessed it the EU

[stewarty27]

she's on the list because of her position

but we have a failing education system - unbelievable two tier
failing nhs with waiting time targets never being hit
enormous social problems, inequality and lack of mobility
an economy in the ne that is being crippled by the oil price and where growth across all of scotland has stagnated tosuch a degree that economists are talking recession...

but she takes selphies with acolytes

genuinely buc where is the competence in government we kept hearing about

Obviously the post of a person who's hatred of the SNP completely obscures any reality or fairness. A Government which is a 100%
" Competent" just does not exist if he really want to talk about a "failing NHS" he need look no further than England &Wales " enormous social problems, inequality and lack of mobility " falls squarely on the Tory Government's austerity policies. with a falling block grant and not nearly enough devolved powers there is very little the SNP can do. although they did try mitigating the bedroom tax. Perhaps Mr Grantland would prefer the Tories or Labour to run Holyrood or even governed direct from WM.Which I suspect would be his preference. His post is nothing more than a SNP Baaaaaad rant we get from the Unionist press every day of the week,

[Buc]

I want Sturgeon to quit also if Scotland votes to leave, but cannot see it. The SNP seem pretty good at brainwashing the party membership.

Now now it wasn't Sturgeon who wanted the vote its David Cameron you should point the finger at.

The eyes are useless when the mind is blind. :O

[actonsheep]

Jo Cox MP - shot by terrorist shouting "Britain First". Step up from eggs I suppose.

But yeah, lets leave the EU and hand our country to the English right. That'll end well.

[TheDeeDon]

Now now it wasn't Sturgeon who wanted the vote its David Cameron you should point the finger at.

The eyes are useless when the mind is blind. :O

I couldn't give a f*ck about Cameron or any other tory f*ckwit, unless I am reading their obituary. The SNP are pushing all their efforts to keeping us in Europe that I see very little between them and the Tories I'm afraid. Both my eyes and mind are fine to make my own mind up, you on the other hand Buc, as an SNP apparatchik, certainly cannot see the wood for the trees.

T

[Buc]

I couldn't give a f*ck about Cameron or any other tory f*ckwit, unless I am reading their obituary. The SNP are pushing all their efforts to keeping us in Europe that I see very little between them and the Tories I'm afraid. Both my eyes and mind are fine to make my own mind up, you on the other hand Buc, as an SNP apparatchik, certainly cannot see the wood for the trees.

T

That's fine we will just have to disagree by the way I'm not all SNP the Scottish elections Greens 2nd vote.
Not sure about not seeing the forests for the trees maybe I could say that about you but I won't DD.
:) thanks for replying anyway

:O

[Barnared]

Jo Cox MP - shot by terrorist shouting "Britain First". Step up from eggs I suppose.

But yeah, lets leave the EU and hand our country to the English right. That'll end well.

I'd personally rather give my money to the EU than the English

[TheDeeDon]

That's fine we will just have to disagree by the way I'm not all SNP the Scottish elections Greens 2nd vote.
Not sure about not seeing the forests for the trees maybe I could say that about you but I won't DD.
:) thanks for replying anyway

:O

You cannot say that about me Buc, as I don't spout the rubbish you do about the SNP or your queen Nicola. I am an SNP voter, but I am not a party member and I certainly don't buy a lot of what they stand for, especially their position on Europe.

Thank you for replying though.

[Buc]

You cannot say that about me Buc, as I don't spout the rubbish you do about the SNP or your queen Nicola. I am an SNP voter, but I am not a party member and I certainly don't buy a lot of what they stand for, especially their position on Europe.

Thank you for replying though.

I would never mean any I'll of any poster on here its not my game .I'm fine with you telling me I speak rubbish my wife tells me that.

I'm a member of the Greens and have been for 2 years

[Barnared]

I would never mean any I'll of any poster on here its not my game .I'm fine with you telling me I speak rubbish my wife tells me that.

I'm a member of the Greens and have been for 2 years

Protest vote >:(

[Buc]

I would never mean any I'll of any poster on here its not my game .I'm fine with you telling me I speak rubbish my wife tells me that.

I'm a member of the Greens and have been for 2 years

No liked what I heard from their leader Patrick Harvey plus they don't point score they discuss things in the right manner without hate which I like.

[actonsheep]

No liked what I heard from their leader Patrick Harvey plus they don't point score they discuss things in the right manner without hate which I like.

Was tempted to vote Green at the last election, but was put off by John Finnie campaigning to keep a aluminium smelter in his constituency open whilst at the same time campaigning for a managed rundown of the North Sea oil industry.

Being able ignore the social and environmental damage mining does to third world countries simply for the benefit of a handful of constituents, whilst at the same time railing against the relatively benign north sea oil industry which provides for thousands of families across the country doesn't seem to be doing things in the "right manner" to me. Its self serving, and hypocritical.

[Rochead]

Oot

[Buc]

Was tempted to vote Green at the last election, but was put off by John Finnie campaigning to keep a aluminium smelter in his constituency open whilst at the same time campaigning for a managed rundown of the North Sea oil industry.

Being able ignore the social and environmental damage mining does to third world countries simply for the benefit of a handful of constituents, whilst at the same time railing against the relatively benign north sea oil industry which provides for thousands of families across the country doesn't seem to be doing things in the "right manner" to me. Its self serving, and hypocritical.

Some good points one I wasn't aware of regarding Finnie .

In the right manner for me is discussing without hate that you see from the likes of most politicians the worst has to be Lewis McDonald ..
Really find that off putting I've never seen anyone with so much hate as him ..

[ObanRed]

Latest odds from Betfair

http://politicalodds.bet/eu-referendum?time=14#i

[Mason89]

Patrick Harvey is a walloper

[TheDeeDon]

Some good points one I wasn't aware of regarding Finnie .

In the right manner for me is discussing without hate that you see from the likes of most politicians the worst has to be Lewis McDonald ..
Really find that off putting I've never seen anyone with so much hate as him ..

I'll agree with you 100% Buc, about Lewis McDonald, an arse of a man.

Also, apologies for saying you were an SNP member. I assumed you were and as they say never assume...

[Buc]

I'll agree with you 100% Buc, about Lewis McDonald, an arse of a man.

Also, apologies for saying you were an SNP member. I assumed you were and as they say never assume...

I am an SNP member also plus CND and a few more animal rights could go on but don't want bore you ..
Nothing to apologize for .DD.

[Buc]

Patrick Harvey is a walloper

Never met Patrick as yet but I maybe would agree with you if I did Mason.

[Barnared]

Never met Patrick as yet but I maybe would agree with you if I did Mason.

While I find him well meaning, I also think he's an utter fantasist.

[Mason89]

Never met Patrick as yet but I maybe would agree with you if I did Mason.

My opinion of him hasn't changed since we were at the same school. I'm willing to accept that might be a little unfair :)

[Buc]

My opinion of him hasn't changed since we were at the same school. I'm willing to accept that might be a little unfair :)

A little unfair that made me laugh.:)

[Redmadders96]

I'm an "IN" man myself...........financial experts or the vast majority of them say its not a very clever thing to vote out.....and who am I to go against them

[NEM83]

I'm voting in.
Nicola says its best so I'm listening to the best.:O

Proof if ever it were needed the elderly shouldn't be allowed the vote :P

[NEM83]

Jo Cox MP - shot by terrorist shouting "Britain First". Step up from eggs I suppose.

But yeah, lets leave the EU and hand our country to the English right. That'll end well.

Poor show trying to politicise her murder, the poor lassies nae even cold yet. Shame on you

[Buc]

Proof if ever it were needed the elderly shouldn't be allowed the vote :P

Elderly shouldn't be allowed to vote :)

I challenge you to a hill race or indeed a 6 mile run ..I will give you a start of 5 mins.:O

I will prove to you that the elderly aren't housebound anymore.

I will be at elrick and brimond tomorrow 9am 2,000 ft of running..just over from the Xmas tree car park.

The young lads on here have no respect for us auld boys onymare.

Onybudy else up for the challenge..;D

[Brian Grantland]

Elderly shouldn't be allowed to vote :)

I challenge you to a hill race or indeed a 6 mile run ..I will give you a start of 5 mins.:O

I will prove to you that the elderly aren't housebound anymore.

I will be at elrick and brimond tomorrow 9am 2,000 ft of running..just over from the Xmas tree car park.

The young lads on here have no respect for us auld boys onymare.

Onybudy else up for the challenge..;D

you equate physical endurance with ability rather than mental acuity

[Buc]

you equate physical endurance with ability rather than mental acuity

There's no doubt that my mental acuity is decreasing with OLD age.

Physical endurence is an ability of the mind suffering pain and training through it .. Some people have ability to be very good but don't want to go through the pain barrier to get there ...

And no I don't equate physical endurance with mental acuity ..

I'm only having a we bit of fun Brian .

[actonsheep]

Poor show trying to politicise her murder, the poor lassies nae even cold yet. Shame on you


Shes an MP, who was assassinated carrying out her job, it was born political.

Shame on anyone who denies that England has a problem with right wing nationalism. F'ucking appeasers.

[Brian Grantland]

Shes an MP, who was assassinated carrying out her job, it was born political.

Shame on anyone who denies that England has a problem with right wing nationalism. F'ucking appeasers.

r u for real?

[actonsheep]

r u for real?

Of course I am. Are you blind?

You have Britain First calling for "direct action" against the elected Mayor of London, whilst invading mosques and attempting to shut down businesses who they believe to have muslim links. You have men wearing the St Georges Cross running around France telling immigrants to go home, and how they're going to "do worse than ISIS". You have mainstream politicians unveiling posters with naziesque imagery, and text that symbolises white supremacism, and to top it off you have a gent with known links to extreme far right groups killing an MP - the first such event since the IRA killed an MP in the 90s.

All because an English right wing government couldn't be arsed actually dealing with the problems the country faces, and decided it was easier just to blame immigrants. Lovely isn't it?

[redscot]

Of course I am. Are you blind?

You have Britain First calling for "direct action" against the elected Mayor of London, whilst invading mosques and attempting to shut down businesses who they believe to have muslim links. You have men wearing the St Georges Cross running around France telling immigrants to go home, and how they're going to "do worse than ISIS". You have mainstream politicians unveiling posters with naziesque imagery, and text that symbolises white supremacism, and to top it off you have a gent with known links to extreme far right groups killing an MP - the first such event since the IRA killed an MP in the 90s.

All because an English right wing government couldn't be arsed actually dealing with the problems the country faces, and decided it was easier just to blame immigrants. Lovely isn't it?

Jeezo, did you vent your spleen when those two muslim guys hacked the soldier to death on an English street ?

[actonsheep]

Jeezo, did you vent your spleen when those two muslim guys hacked the soldier to death on an English street ?

No, because people seem to be less reluctant to label muslim terrorists for what they are. Why might that be?

[redscot]

"No"

Thanks, you seem to have double standards.

[Barnared]

Poor show trying to politicise her murder, the poor lassies nae even cold yet. Shame on you

I don't think that is entirely fair. I'm pretty sure he wrote that when the story first broke and the poor wee thing was still alive.

I think he was merely drawing attention to the fact that the attack was politically motivated and that there is some dangerous sh!t brewing up down there in England.

Shame on anyone that says shame on you. :)

[Brian Grantland]

the closer it gets to polling day, the more I hear from leave, the more its just incredibly thinly veiled racism.

[Aldo1983]

Leave side might be winning in the polls but they've run out of things to say and that's all I'm hearing as well.

[Barnared]

I suppose it all boils down to who you are most scared of....

[Brian Grantland]

https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/744480636707143681/photo/1

[redscot]

So anyone that is thinking of voting out is racist, right-wing and or a potentional murderer ?? XD

[ragnarok]

The level of debate from both sides in the media really has been plumbing new depths in the last few days. Even worse than the Independence Neverendum.

I don't know what the hell Farage was thinking with the poster.

The Jo Cox story is a horrible tragedy but there's really no reason for it to be linked to the referendum (although it's impossible to think that it wouldn't less than a week out). There is currently only one person who understands the motivation for this act and we won't have any insight until long after the vote.

[Getintaethem]

Anyone who is left leaning should watch this video about the EU... Lexit the Movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq72f81kkM4

Remain funded by Goldman Sachs and the other rich bankers... anyone smell a rat? Workers rights are safe in the EU? Tell that to the state owned train workers in France who are on strike because the EU wants harmonization of workers packages across the state owned and private sectors.

Just heard that Greenpeace has received documents that discuss the confidential US/EU trade deal. Every year US and EU delegates will get together to discuss state owned monopolies with a view of getting rid of anything that distorts the market. Aye, that's right, that means the NHS is under threat. No other country in the EU has healthcare like the NHS so no other country will be fighting its corner and we may not even have a UK representative at the talks. This is not even getting into the potential for any US company to have the right to tender to supply any service currently provided by the NHS.

Independernt article discussing the US/EU trade deal:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

I saw a comment about trusting the EU more than Westminster. That is the same EU that went about and is still bullying Greece and has already replaced elected leaders in 2 countries, because of the Euro is responsible for huge unemployment rates in countries such as Greece, Spain and Portugal, is holding off on announcing decisions already made that will severely impact on the UK until after the referendum and has no answer for the migrant crisis. I would rather trust Maxwell with my pension contributions.

Voting in this referendum is not only about what the EU is now... it is about what it will become in the future.

[Buc]

https://www.facebook.com/ian.johnstone.969/videos/1007337556000830/

Thought I'd share this.

[Getintaethem]

https://www.facebook.com/ian.johnstone.969/videos/1007337556000830/

Thought I'd share this.

why?

[blinlemon]

https://www.facebook.com/ian.johnstone.969/videos/1007337556000830/

Thought I'd share this.

Serial tax dodger, fuel rebate subsidy junkie, immoral business technique-practising homophobe Brian Souter doesn't even feature as a vampiric leech on the public arteries.

Of course, he funds The Party, and is beyond reproach.

Nothing to see here. On your way.

Anyway, the 1872 Reform Act (as I recall) enshrined the secrecy of ballots, so feck off with your impertinent question about my voting intentions, if I bother.

[Barnared]

It's all about race, don't you know?

[Getintaethem]

It's all about race, don't you know?

strange. very strange.

[Buc]

It's all about race, don't you know?

There's a we bit of that for sure.:(

[Buc]

Serial tax dodger, fuel rebate subsidy junkie, immoral business technique-practising homophobe Brian Souter doesn't even feature as a vampiric leech on the public arteries.

Of course, he funds The Party, and is beyond reproach.

Nothing to see here. On your way.

Anyway, the 1872 Reform Act (as I recall) enshrined the secrecy of ballots, so feck off with your impertinent question about my voting intentions, if I bother.

Do you know what I've never made one rude post or swear at anyone in all the years of posting here and never will but that's fine

Just don't get rude or angry replies don't see the point.

[Getintaethem]

There's a we bit of that for sure.:(

In what way is it about race? Just interested because the Leave campaign are at lengths of saying that they are not anti immigration, they are more about controlled immigration. Like Dyson says, we train engineers from around the world but he cannot employ them without great difficulty. These engineers come from the places like China, Singapore, India, Pakistan etc. None of which are as close to our "race" as people from the EU.

Can you provide one quote from the Leave campaign, journalist supporting leave, business person, charity or union that are supporting Leave that mentions anywhere anything about race?

The US would not allow uncontrolled immigration from south america in their trading zone, Canada would not, India would not, China would not, Australia would not, Mexico would not, Singapore would not, Japan would not, South Africa would not... nothing to do with race at all...

[Rochead]

Controlling immigration is Racist, utter garbage, that has got to be one most pathetic accusations made in this debate, sounds like desperation.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK, why then is the leadership of the SNP turning the EU referendum into a mini referendum about having another Separate from the UK referendum? Geez a break, the decision has been made.

[Buc]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/racism-on-the-rise-in-uk-with-1-in-3-people-admitting-prejudice-9443555.html



Racism is everywhere unfortunately

[Rochead]

Of course racism exists, however in this referendum anyone voting out are deemed to be doing so as an act of racism in many quartets.
There will be very many racists voting remain.

[Brian Grantland]

Of course racism exists, however in this referendum anyone voting out are deemed to be doing so as an act of racism in many quartets.
There will be very many racists voting remain.

genuine question

have u seen the faces in this poster

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5762970815000030001b9bb6.png

do u think farage is a racist

[Barnared]

genuine question

have u seen the faces in this poster

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5762970815000030001b9bb6.png

do u think farage is a racist
:zzz:

[ragnarok]

genuine question

have u seen the faces in this poster

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5762970815000030001b9bb6.png

do u think farage is a racist

I don't like the poster at all. Of course Farage will claim that it's highlighting a point he has made on numerous occasions (that many of the supposed refugees trying to enter the country are young single males). However, I think it's very different to raise such questions in an interview than it is to make the point with a poster like this which clearly trying to appeal to the concerns of a particular type of voter.

The debate on immigration takes you into some very murky waters. Accusations of racism don't add anything. If there's one subject that requires rational dispassionate debate it is this one.

[Barnared]

Of course racism exists, however in this referendum anyone voting out are deemed to be doing so as an act of racism in many quartets.
There will be very many racists voting remain.

Aye, have to agree with that, it's just run of the mill English politics. I won't be bothering to vote so I don't give a phuk either way.

I think that a lot of folk planning to vote remain are sh!t scared of the immigration problem (cause it is that) in England too but are slightly more scared of Cameron and Osbornes doomsday scenarios.

[Rochead]

Yes I have seen the poster, is he racist? he very well may be despite his denials, only he can answer that question. My opinion of the poster is that it is abhorrent, to use mass refugees in that way is disgusting, however that is the work of UKIP and not the official leave campaign, in my belief immigration should be controlled the way it is in other countries as mention by a previous poster. War refugees, that is a separate matter altogether and nothing to do with whether or not we should leave the European market.
I did not agree with joining the common market, at the time I felt we were cutting out too many other markets, other countries we were dealing with at the time. My preference would be to deal with all markets without any rules coming from Brussels, I do not accept the rhetoric of doom being spouted by the remain team, no country is going to refuse to deal with us if we leave, they have got their own economies to think about.
Also, I would not like our economy to be connected with the Euro, too many weak economies linked to it, wouldn't want the burden already borne by Germany and France in trying to constantly bail them out.

[TheDeeDon]

Yes I have seen the poster, is he racist? he very well may be despite his denials, only he can answer that question. My opinion of the poster is that it is abhorrent, to use mass refugees in that way is disgusting, however that is the work of UKIP and not the official leave campaign, in my belief immigration should be controlled the way it is in other countries as mention by a previous poster. War refugees, that is a separate matter altogether and nothing to do with whether or not we should leave the European market.
I did not agree with joining the common market, at the time I felt we were cutting out too many other markets, other countries we were dealing with at the time. My preference would be to deal with all markets without any rules coming from Brussels, I do not accept the rhetoric of doom being spouted by the remain team, no country is going to refuse to deal with us if we leave, they have got their own economies to think about.
Also, I would not like our economy to be connected with the Euro, too many weak economies linked to it, wouldn't want the burden already borne by Germany and France in trying to constantly bail them out.

Rochead - Your post above is one of the best I have read on here on this subject.

[Aldo1983]

Agreed.

[Getintaethem]

Yes I have seen the poster, is he racist? he very well may be despite his denials, only he can answer that question. My opinion of the poster is that it is abhorrent, to use mass refugees in that way is disgusting, however that is the work of UKIP and not the official leave campaign, in my belief immigration should be controlled the way it is in other countries as mention by a previous poster. War refugees, that is a separate matter altogether and nothing to do with whether or not we should leave the European market.
I did not agree with joining the common market, at the time I felt we were cutting out too many other markets, other countries we were dealing with at the time. My preference would be to deal with all markets without any rules coming from Brussels, I do not accept the rhetoric of doom being spouted by the remain team, no country is going to refuse to deal with us if we leave, they have got their own economies to think about.
Also, I would not like our economy to be connected with the Euro, too many weak economies linked to it, wouldn't want the burden already borne by Germany and France in trying to constantly bail them out.

Great post. With regards to the rhetoric of doom you mention...there has been a lot of talk about all the "experts" stating that the economy would reduce if we exited the EU. Some of these experts also predicted that the economy would reduce if we did not take up the Euro (hmm), others like the IMF said that we would have mass unemployment given the reduced public spending by Osbourne (hmm)... so I thought I would take a look at the assumptions of these "experts".

There are some issues with the models used by these experts, however, it is not the models that are the major problem. It is the starting assumptions. As with all modelling, what you put in as the start (your assumptions) has a major impact on what you get out at the end. Looking at the assumptions these "independent" experts have done something rather interesting. They have assumed that the UK would choose to put protectionist tariffs against trade from all countries around the world, including the EU. The assumption was that the protectionist tariffs would be in line with the general tariffs that countries adopted prior to joining the EU.

In short the decision of the "experts" to assume that the UK instead of using Brexit as an opportunity to move to general free trade pursues general protectionism which in effect reduces the extent of free trade is important in obtaining its negative results for output.

My big issue with this is that tariffs are on the whole going down around the world. The EU would not put tariffs on our goods (it is against their own economies interests). In fact, if they did we could still run a non protectionist agenda. New Zealand implemented a global zero tariff policy in the 1980's.

If these models changed their original assumptions and instead did (as David Cameron said during the general election) that "Britain was open for business", we can look at a scenario where we do not introduce protectionism. In that scenario, instead of Brexit being bad for GDP, we get positive growth figures. (analysis performed by Prof. Patrick Minford). This analysis is based on WTO rules and no protectionism policies. Oh and by the way, if we went with a non protectionist policy prices of everything you buy would go down. Given that only 15% of companies actually sell stuff abroad this would be a huge boost to consumers and by definition have greatest relative impact for benefit for the poorest in our society.

[blinlemon]

Do you know what I've never made one rude post or swear at anyone in all the years of posting here and never will but that's fine

Just don't get rude or angry replies don't see the point.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[LED]

I see Cameron's welfare package which he negotiated is only for 12 years. So these laws that he keeps going on about regarding the 4 year claiming benefits law etc have still to be passed my the EU council of ministers and when/if they are will be capped to 12 years from now.

It begs the question, why are Brussels waiting to after the referendum to ratify these laws, and if we stay what will replace them in 12 years?

[Getintaethem]

I see Cameron's welfare package which he negotiated is only for 12 years. So these laws that he keeps going on about regarding the 4 year claiming benefits law etc have still to be passed my the EU council of ministers and when/if they are will be capped to 12 years from now.

It begs the question, why are Brussels waiting to after the referendum to ratify these laws, and if we stay what will replace them in 12 years?

Yep I saw that and could see him thinking... "what did I just say".

A vote to Remain in the EU will be taken by the EU as an affirmation that we agree with what they have done in the past and will do in the future.

I will vote to Leave because I see how they have treated Greece, how their people have no hope, how pensioners are suffering etc. and would not be able to look myself in the mirror and tell myself I knew this and still gave them my blessing.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-19/greeks-send-open-letter-uk-citizens-about-brexit

[Rochead]

Rochead - Your post above is one of the best I have read on here on this subject.

Thank you, just the way I see it, I know many people have a different view

[LED]

Yep I saw that and could see him thinking... "what did I just say".

A vote to Remain in the EU will be taken by the EU as an affirmation that we agree with what they have done in the past and will do in the future.

I will vote to Leave because I see how they have treated Greece, how their people have no hope, how pensioners are suffering etc. and would not be able to look myself in the mirror and tell myself I knew this and still gave them my blessing.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-19/greeks-send-open-letter-uk-citizens-about-brexit
I lived in Greece for a couple of years around the time the Euro was introduced. Every single main infrastructure program from the airport to the new roads and metro were awarded to German companies with vast amounts of EU funding. The tax receipts from these companies went straight back to the German exchequer or German banks through loans
.
Now Greece is left to clear up it's mess while the EU impose tax and welfare reforms that the Greek economy cannot cope with. The direct result of the EU intervention is mass unemployment with families now so poor the church is overwhelmed with new born babies and children who are bei g given up by parents who think the riches of the church will give them a better life. The richer families send their kids abroad as soon as they finish school.

I will vote leave because there are no guarantees that at some point in the future the EU won't impose similar tariffs to the UK ,for me we are better out and let democracy decide what the politicians can and cannot impose on the British people.

[Brian Grantland]

Yes I have seen the poster, is he racist? he very well may be despite his denials, only he can answer that question. My opinion of the poster is that it is abhorrent, to use mass refugees in that way is disgusting, however that is the work of UKIP and not the official leave campaign, in my belief immigration should be controlled the way it is in other countries as mention by a previous poster. War refugees, that is a separate matter altogether and nothing to do with whether or not we should leave the European market.
I did not agree with joining the common market, at the time I felt we were cutting out too many other markets, other countries we were dealing with at the time. My preference would be to deal with all markets without any rules coming from Brussels, I do not accept the rhetoric of doom being spouted by the remain team, no country is going to refuse to deal with us if we leave, they have got their own economies to think about.
Also, I would not like our economy to be connected with the Euro, too many weak economies linked to it, wouldn't want the burden already borne by Germany and France in trying to constantly bail them out.

You've obviously given your position a lot of thought.

I think facts go against the majority of your points. But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Many leave voters will be motivated by racism in their voting intentions.
Which raises a rather horrible prospect for a post-Brexit society.

[Aldo1983]

I lived in Greece for a couple of years around the time the Euro was introduced. Every single main infrastructure program from the airport to the new roads and metro were awarded to German companies with vast amounts of EU funding. The tax receipts from these companies went straight back to the German exchequer or German banks through loans
.
Now Greece is left to clear up it's mess while the EU impose tax and welfare reforms that the Greek economy cannot cope with. The direct result of the EU intervention is mass unemployment with families now so poor the church is overwhelmed with new born babies and children who are bei g given up by parents who think the riches of the church will give them a better life. The richer families send their kids abroad as soon as they finish school.

I will vote leave because there are no guarantees that at some point in the future the EU won't impose similar tariffs to the UK ,for me we are better out and let democracy decide what the politicians can and cannot impose on the British people.

I was in Athens not so long ago and I was speaking to a few locals who were raging about owing the Germans so much money for the road and airport. especially since the road is near a graveyard for the locals they massacred.

I felt sorry for them then starting hearing from a taxi driver who bought his flat for €400k whilst paying little tax.

It is indeed a messy one but they play a major part in their own downfall.

Valencia is the prime example of taking the Piss.

[Barnared]

Phuk Greece. I'm not having that poor Greece malarkey. They phukin lied through their teeth to get in, albeit as the EU weren't looking too hard but they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

I was in Spain when things went t!ts up there too. Again, they're to blame for that themselves.

The thing is that these countries, Italy included, in years gone by would simply devalue the phuk out of their currencies as a short term fix to get themselves out of their messes, which was a frequent occurence but it never solved their problems and continually held them back. It could be argued that the inability to do that is actually going to help them in the long run.

[LED]

But thats the point Barnared. The EU looked the other way when the books didn't balance and let Greece in anyway. They also did the same for Spain and Italy. All for the political cause of the EU and at the expense of its citizens. And by citizens I mean all member states including us. Who's to say that the EU won't at some point in the future do it to us?

The main problem with the EU is it's a Political Union without any monetory or financial unity. Just look at the zones that have the Euro and then you have those that don't. All working to different rules while trying to pretend that the are actually all behaving within a set of rules that nobody actually knows exist. For example debt to GDP ratio.

[Getintaethem]

Barnared, not only is your post morally wrong, it is also economically wrong and historically wrong.

Morally wrong - Where is all the togetherness that we heard from the Remain camp in your "Phuk Greece" statement. It is now a them and us situation? At the end of WW2, the Germans had massive debt. So much that they could not be expected to pay it back without huge turmoil in the country. WW2 was Germany's fault. What did the allies do? They wrote off 50% of the debt and let the Germans pay the rest back over a huge period of time. What happened, the German economy rose from the ashes to be the biggest success story in Europe. Their is no debt write off with Greece. In fact, the EU is adding debt onto Greece. One of the reasons is that the big banks mainly in France but in other countries such as Germany had a huge financial exposure to Greece. (yep... the EU is in cahoots with big business and big banks).

Economically wrong - Normally when governments with their own currencies borrow too much the cost of borrowing increases in the international markets. Therefore, they stop borrowing as much. In the Euro, every country had the same cost of borrowing so they could go on borrowing at the same low rates as Germany. This is a fundamental flaw with the Euro. In order for it to work there needs to be a single policies on all government activity throughout the EU, a single tax and spend policy throughout Europe for all countries. i.e. borrowing is controlled centrally and countries are only allowed to spend what they are told they can. This is why there will be more unification of countries and more central control to the EU.

Where did you get that Greece needing to pay back all this debt would be good for the country. The opposite happened with Germany and other countries that defaulted on debts or had debts written off. These countries got back on their feet quicker, interest rates on their loans were high because they were seen as a risk and therefore these countries did not borrow above their ability to pay. The fact is changing monetary policy in order to counter issues in the economy is well understood as being critical to getting a country out of recession. Before they joined the Euro there was meant to be harmonisation of the economies across the currency zone. Clearly there was no such thing. Being in the Euro means that they cannot change monetary policy (increase/reduce interest rates, devalue the currency etc.). There is a comparison with the US here where there is a monetary union. The monetary policy is set by Washington for the industrial zones (eastern and western sea borders on the whole). The south should have had lower interest rates for decades and a lower exchange rate than the rest of the US in order to stimulate the economy but as part of the union they cannot and they have been relatively poorer to the richer parts of the Union since the civil war. Incidentally, the same could be said for the UK where the north of england and scotland could have historically benefited from a different monetary policy to the South East of England.

Historically wrong - the Greek Government did not accept their application to the Euro. It was the EU. There was meant to be monetary harmonisation but for political reasons this was swept under the carpet. This is not said in hindsight, there were plenty of economists saying that the economies were not harmonised but the EU decided that anyone in the EU could join the Euro for political reasons. Perhaps the EU's internet was down for 5 years before the Euro was introduced and they did not hear this? Which country was denied entry? If you apply for a mortgage it is the responsibility of the bank to check that what you say is true. They look at your bank statements for example. Same with the EU... did they not check? Did they not know? Ofcourse they did and they knew exactly what the position was before accepting Greece into the EU.

Now did Greece do nothing wrong? Ofcourse they did. They spent spent spent on cheap credit until the credit crunch. But where were all the "independent experts" (them again) telling them to stop? Yep the experts were wrong then and they are wrong now.

[LED]

Barnared, not only is your post morally wrong, it is also economically wrong and historically wrong.

Morally wrong - Where is all the togetherness that we heard from the Remain camp in your "Phuk Greece" statement. It is now a them and us situation? At the end of WW2, the Germans had massive debt. So much that they could not be expected to pay it back without huge turmoil in the country. WW2 was Germany's fault. What did the allies do? They wrote off 50% of the debt and let the Germans pay the rest back over a huge period of time. What happened, the German economy rose from the ashes to be the biggest success story in Europe. Their is no debt write off with Greece. In fact, the EU is adding debt onto Greece. One of the reasons is that the big banks mainly in France but in other countries such as Germany had a huge financial exposure to Greece. (yep... the EU is in cahoots with big business and big banks).

Economically wrong - Normally when governments with their own currencies borrow too much the cost of borrowing increases in the international markets. Therefore, they stop borrowing as much. In the Euro, every country had the same cost of borrowing so they could go on borrowing at the same low rates as Germany. This is a fundamental flaw with the Euro. In order for it to work there needs to be a single policies on all government activity throughout the EU, a single tax and spend policy throughout Europe for all countries. i.e. borrowing is controlled centrally and countries are only allowed to spend what they are told they can. This is why there will be more unification of countries and more central control to the EU.

Where did you get that Greece needing to pay back all this debt would be good for the country. The opposite happened with Germany and other countries that defaulted on debts or had debts written off. These countries got back on their feet quicker, interest rates on their loans were high because they were seen as a risk and therefore these countries did not borrow above their ability to pay. The fact is changing monetary policy in order to counter issues in the economy is well understood as being critical to getting a country out of recession. Before they joined the Euro there was meant to be harmonisation of the economies across the currency zone. Clearly there was no such thing. Being in the Euro means that they cannot change monetary policy (increase/reduce interest rates, devalue the currency etc.). There is a comparison with the US here where there is a monetary union. The monetary policy is set by Washington for the industrial zones (eastern and western sea borders on the whole). The south should have had lower interest rates for decades and a lower exchange rate than the rest of the US in order to stimulate the economy but as part of the union they cannot and they have been relatively poorer to the richer parts of the Union since the civil war. Incidentally, the same could be said for the UK where the north of england and scotland could have historically benefited from a different monetary policy to the South East of England.

Historically wrong - the Greek Government did not accept their application to the Euro. It was the EU. There was meant to be monetary harmonisation but for political reasons this was swept under the carpet. This is not said in hindsight, there were plenty of economists saying that the economies were not harmonised but the EU decided that anyone in the EU could join the Euro for political reasons. Perhaps the EU's internet was down for 5 years before the Euro was introduced and they did not hear this? Which country was denied entry? If you apply for a mortgage it is the responsibility of the bank to check that what you say is true. They look at your bank statements for example. Same with the EU... did they not check? Did they not know? Ofcourse they did and they knew exactly what the position was before accepting Greece into the EU.

Now did Greece do nothing wrong? Ofcourse they did. They spent spent spent on cheap credit until the credit crunch. But where were all the "independent experts" (them again) telling them to stop? Yep the experts were wrong then and they are wrong now.
That is a fantastic post. Spot on

[Brian Grantland]

Since the UK joined the European Economic Community in 1973, Britain has done relatively well, outperforming the EU’s largest economies, Germany, France and Italy – and the US.
FACT

Cost of membership to UK exchequer in 2015
8,473bn (net)
Considerably less than £350m per week...

[TheDeeDon]

The shyte from the politicians will be ramped up in the last couple of days all the great and corrupt in our society will be out telling us the dangers of breaking away. It will be a remain win come Thursday IMO, but the margin of their success is going to be interesting, they really need around 70% of the vote, in my opinion, for this to go away. If it is a narrow win for remain the tory part will turn on itself so could be interesting times, just a pity there is no real opposition to rip them to bits.

[Getintaethem]

Since the UK joined the European Economic Community in 1973, Britain has done relatively well, outperforming the EU’s largest economies, Germany, France and Italy – and the US.
FACT

Cost of membership to UK exchequer in 2015
8,473bn (net)
Considerably less than £350m per week...

Oh I love a good FACT

So, we have outperformed the US. So, exactly, which of the 300 odd stats that are used to measure the economy are you using? If we look at real GDP figures, for example, the growth in the US economy has been over 300% and the growth in the UK economy has been less than 240% since 1973.

I suppose our exports to Germany and the rest of Europe are doing well by increasing whereas the US exports to Germany and the rest of Europe are reducing... cos the US is outside of the EU and therefore by definition they would never be doing better than us trading with the EU. Damn pesky FACTS

[Brian Grantland]

growth in real gdp per capita

[Getintaethem]

growth in real gdp per capita

This is where your whole FACT falls down. You cannot and should not look at one stat in isolation. Most people would say that China has outperformed the UK over the past few years as GDP has been huge. But GDP per capita is tiny in comparison to the UK's and wealth disparity is even larger. Comparing one stat from one country against another country is what politicians do to make political points... its called spin. It is also easier to get larger percentage increases in GDP per capita over a period of time when you are comparing relatively poorer countries to richer ones.

There are many problems with GDP per capita (does not include assets (houses, stocks etc.), the black economy, wages or wealth distribution) and even more problems when trying to compare GDP per capita between countries. The black economy in Italy is estimated to be around 30%, for example, in comparison to the UK's 5%. Even worse when you do it in isolation of all the other economic, historical and social differences between countries.

So, it is not really a FACT, its more an opinion with the backing of one statistic in isolation that in of itself does not compare apples with apples.

Even if you were right and we have experienced higher growth in comparison to the US and other countries in the EU, this does not prove that this happened because we were in the EU. Our growth could have been the same or larger outside the EU. No one knows for sure as we cannot both be in and out of the EU at the same time and therefore this is not a FACT either.

[Buc]

By Friday morning this EU vote will be put to bed.

For me it looks like 55% in and 45% out with the undecideds mostly voting in..

Now this isn't a fact its just my gut feeling.:O

What do you lads think the percentage vote will be .B)

[Buc]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F_PQN0A8FbI

[Rochead]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F_PQN0A8FbI

Sorry Buc, disappointed when I went on to the Link and saw Salmond, I didn't watch it, I assumed the link had something to do with the polls as your previous post was about percentages.
The leave campaign seems to have lost some momentum, between the suspension of campaigning due to the tragic death of the MP plus UKIP's sordid poster.
I wouldn't be surprised if your own figures were close to the mark. One thing I do know is that the result will be accepted. Unlike our own referendum where we still have the SNP leadership who seem unable to accept our decision and constantly are looking through their own eyes for half an excuse to go again. Their inability to accept the result is creating uncertainty in the country.

[TheDeeDon]

Sorry Buc, disappointed when I went on to the Link and saw Salmond, I didn't watch it, I assumed the link had something to do with the polls as your previous post was about percentages.
The leave campaign seems to have lost some momentum, between the suspension of campaigning due to the tragic death of the MP plus UKIP's sordid poster.
I wouldn't be surprised if your own figures were close to the mark. One thing I do know is that the result will be accepted. Unlike our own referendum where we still have the SNP leadership who seem unable to accept our decision and constantly are looking through their own eyes for half an excuse to go again. Their inability to accept the result is creating uncertainty in the country.

I don't think the result will be accepted by leave, unless they get under 40% of the vote. For what it's worth I have a feeling remain will be comfortably ahead with over 60% of the vote and also turnout may well be low.

[Stupie82]

By Friday morning this EU vote will be put to bed.

For me it looks like 55% in and 45% out with the undecideds mostly voting in..

Now this isn't a fact its just my gut feeling.:O

What do you lads think the percentage vote will be .B)

As much as I am voting out, "In" will win. % guess I would say 52% in and 48% out. Per country % will vastly differ, with the English being the closest call out of the lot.

[Buc]

Sorry Buc, disappointed when I went on to the Link and saw Salmond, I didn't watch it, I assumed the link had something to do with the polls as your previous post was about percentages.
The leave campaign seems to have lost some momentum, between the suspension of campaigning due to the tragic death of the MP plus UKIP's sordid poster.
I wouldn't be surprised if your own figures were close to the mark. One thing I do know is that the result will be accepted. Unlike our own referendum where we still have the SNP leadership who seem unable to accept our decision and constantly are looking through their own eyes for half an excuse to go again. Their inability to accept the result is creating uncertainty in the country.

You should have opened the link then Rochead ..

Its all about opinions and for me its hard for me just this once not to disagree with him.:)

[NEM83]

genuine question

have u seen the faces in this poster

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5762970815000030001b9bb6.png

do u think farage is a racist

i see young, fit, economic migrant faces in the poster - how about you?

[Buc]

i see young, fit, economic migrant faces in the poster - how about you?

I see desperate people

[NEM83]

I see desperate people

How many have you taken in?

[Getintaethem]

Rochead... couple of videos just for you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9_EhmfxHys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulkh10sSmVE

[Buc]

How many have you taken in?

Glad you asked I'm in the process if you want to know more give me a call or even email me jb39steps@gmail.com

[NEM83]

Glad you asked I'm in the process if you want to know more give me a call or even email me jb39steps@gmail.com

:D

[Barnared]

But thats the point Barnared. The EU looked the other way when the books didn't balance and let Greece in anyway. They also did the same for Spain and Italy. All for the political cause of the EU and at the expense of its citizens. And by citizens I mean all member states including us. Who's to say that the EU won't at some point in the future do it to us?

The main problem with the EU is it's a Political Union without any monetory or financial unity. Just look at the zones that have the Euro and then you have those that don't. All working to different rules while trying to pretend that the are actually all behaving within a set of rules that nobody actually knows exist. For example debt to GDP ratio.

I'm not sticking up for the virtues of the EU or anything like that, if that's what you think !? Simply giving my opinion that Greece itself and it's complete mismanagement and cooking of books from the start was as much to blame for its mess as the rest of the EU that allowed them in.

I don't accept for a minute that "the same can be said for Italy and Spain" as each country had seperate, different and also historic problems. What linked them and caused the domino effect was largely down to their massive debts being held in each others banking structures. There is no such clamour in Spain or Italy to leave the EU or the Eurozone, indeed from what I gather, in Spain there seems to be a recognition that their own problems caused by the housing and construction boom and corruption in the banking and lending sector would have been much worse had they not been able to receive the bailout. No phuker there wants to go back to the peseta, no phuker. I'm pretty confident that Italians don't want the lira back. Both countries would simply be happy if they could finally put and end to corruption.

I can say with complete certainty that what happened in Spain 6/7 years ago would have happened regardless of euro or peseta. Everyone there knows that. It is how the country is run and always has been. It will happen again and will continue to. Ireland might not be too quick to follow their model in future though. Italy will always be as corrupt as hell also. Oh and we will always have an island mentality too, can't see that changing either.

@getintaethem, your post is good and I agree broadly with what you are saying. I don't get how any of it suggests that what I am saying is wrong though.

[Buc]

This has more than likely been posted before worth another look though .



https://conversation.which.co.uk/money/uk-state-pension-comparison-serps/

[Rochead]

You should have opened the link then Rochead ..

Its all about opinions and for me its hard for me just this once not to disagree with him.:)

OK Buc, I gave in and opened the link, nothing to disagree with there, I think we all know that many though not all are hard working people, just like any other section of society. I believe the argument is about the open door policy. As it stands anyone from the EU is entitled to enter and stay, no restrictions, this must add greatly to the burden on councils and the NHS etc. I have no problem in allowing immigrants in who can bring added and needed skills but it must be controlled. That forms part off my reason for voting leave, having the ability to trade with any market and making our own decisions are the main reasons.
Of course it is about opinions, this forum gives us the opportunity to exchange them. 😊

[Rochead]

Rochead... couple of videos just for you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9_EhmfxHys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulkh10sSmVE

Thanks, I enjoyed them. The first one in particular sums it up nicely.

[Buc]

Thanks for opening up that link Rochead .

[Buc]

Found this interesting



http://www.lbc.co.uk/11-would-vote-remain-if-pm-vetoed-turkey-joining-132570

[DirkDonDiggler]

Out for me. When have the big corporations and the banking system funding the remain campaign, to me the warning signs are there. I suggest the people on the fence look up Daniel Hannan and listen to his talks.

https://www.facebook.com/danielhannan/videos/10153437832957331/

[elginred]

Hard to argue with some of the Leave arguments on here.Am mostly out at this stage,mainly for democratic reasons,Cameron and Co have only given economic arguments.
Still open to persuasion though.On one hand am thinking our leaving may trigger the break up of the EU,and possible security issues,but on the other it may be help address the complacency/unaccountabilty of your Mandelsons and fellow Eurocrats

[Getintaethem]

Hard to argue with some of the Leave arguments on here.Am mostly out at this stage,mainly for democratic reasons,Cameron and Co have only given economic arguments.
Still open to persuasion though.On one hand am thinking our leaving may trigger the break up of the EU,and possible security issues,but on the other it may be help address the complacency/unaccountabilty of your Mandelsons and fellow Eurocrats

I understand your concerns. I had them too.

I think the EU is going to fall at some point in the future. This could be a gradual failure or it could be a dramatic failure. The dramatic failure would happen because the Euro and the policies of Germany and the EU against nations like Greece or the issues with Italy and France. Without billions and billions going into these economies to prop them up the Euro it will fail. At some stage, Germany's government may decide enough is enough. There are huge economic challenges with no easy answers for the EU and their only answer so far is to pump billions in.

The EU cannot continue with some members in the Euro and others outside it. The EU in order to save the Euro will need the Euro members to get ever closer to a State with all tax and spend being controlled centrally. This will drive non Euro states away from the EU and perhaps some others in the Euro.

With regards to security, it is in everyone's interest to continue intelligence sharing. The UK (like it or not) has the biggest intelligence operation in the whole of Europe and one of the largest in the World. This has been proven by the intelligence leaks that have happened over the past few years. We therefore share more intelligence with our partners in Europe that we receive. Intelligence sharing will continue. There are some things that we can control and others we cannot. We cannot control the consequences of a dramatic failure of the Euro inside or outside of the EU.

[TheDeeDon]

I might vote for whoever promises no more TV debates. Do we really vote people such as the shower we saw on TV last night to look after our interests? Politics is in an even bigger mess than I thought.

[Mason89]

376

When a nation and its peoples stand on the knife edge of history, its often the most unexpected who arise to steer us to the higher ground

[ObanRed]

376

When a nation and its peoples stand on the knife edge of history, its often the most unexpected who arise to steer us to the higher ground
Where the hell did you find that !!!

[Aldo1983]

He's one of the last people I'd have expected to vote remain.

[Mason89]

When the 1979 News of the World champion speaks, people will listen.

Game set & match Boris!

[GlezgaRed]

When the 1979 News of the World champion speaks, people will listen.

Game set & match Boris!

I thought that happened when David Beckham broke ranks to tell us that we should all vote to remain !!

[NEM83]

I thought that happened when David Beckham broke ranks to tell us that we should all vote to remain !!

Show's how desperate the establishment are getting when they roll out thick as mince ex footballers who live abroad.

[Aldo1983]

Show's how desperate the establishment are getting when they roll out thick as mince ex footballers who live abroad.

He is a gentleman. Won't have a bad word said against him.

[Brian Grantland]

Show's how desperate the establishment are getting when they roll out thick as mince ex footballers who live abroad.

Leave tried it.
But their John Barnes lie got caught out by John Barnes.
Oh and Beckham lives in London...

[Brian Grantland]

Hard to argue with some of the Leave arguments on here.Am mostly out at this stage,mainly for democratic reasons,Cameron and Co have only given economic arguments.
Still open to persuasion though.On one hand am thinking our leaving may trigger the break up of the EU,and possible security issues,but on the other it may be help address the complacency/unaccountabilty of your Mandelsons and fellow Eurocrats

Be interested to know what the 'democratic reasons are' in your opinion.

[elginred]

I understand your concerns. I had them too.

I think the EU is going to fall at some point in the future. This could be a gradual failure or it could be a dramatic failure. The dramatic failure would happen because the Euro and the policies of Germany and the EU against nations like Greece or the issues with Italy and France. Without billions and billions going into these economies to prop them up the Euro it will fail. At some stage, Germany's government may decide enough is enough. There are huge economic challenges with no easy answers for the EU and their only answer so far is to pump billions in.

The EU cannot continue with some members in the Euro and others outside it. The EU in order to save the Euro will need the Euro members to get ever closer to a State with all tax and spend being controlled centrally. This will drive non Euro states away from the EU and perhaps some others in the Euro.

With regards to security, it is in everyone's interest to continue intelligence sharing. The UK (like it or not) has the biggest intelligence operation in the whole of Europe and one of the largest in the World. This has been proven by the intelligence leaks that have happened over the past few years. We therefore share more intelligence with our partners in Europe that we receive. Intelligence sharing will continue. There are some things that we can control and others we cannot. We cannot control the consequences of a dramatic failure of the Euro inside or outside of the EU.


Good post.You got time to listen to this,be interested in your opinion

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/16/watch-dishonesty-industrial-scale-eu-law-expert-analyses-referendum-debate/

[Barnared]

Bollox. The EU will not "fall" any time soon. No matter how much some folk dream that's going to happen, it's simply bollox.

England will vote to stay in it tomorrow and it will be even stronger as a result. It's only ever been going in one direction. Granted they rushed into letting too many poorer countries in too soon but they will work through it.

Nobody will ever leave.

[Getintaethem]

Bollox. The EU will not "fall" any time soon. No matter how much some folk dream that's going to happen, it's simply bollox.

England will vote to stay in it tomorrow and it will be even stronger as a result. It's only ever been going in one direction. Granted they rushed into letting too many poorer countries in too soon but they will work through it.

Nobody will ever leave.

keep telling yourself that.

[Barnared]

keep telling yourself that.

Nah, I know it already.

I'm telling you :)

[Getintaethem]

Nah, I know it already.

I'm telling you :)

because you have never been proven wrong on this board before...

http://reaction.life/brexit-will-win/

from the guy who headed the cross party committee for Yes to Scottish Independence... we shall see.

[TheDeeDon]

Well that's me voted. I voted out. If I wasn't sure how I was going to vote then a letter through the door last night from the SNP would have convinced me to vote out, just to piss that lot of sanctimonious c*nts right off.

I don't mind anything through from either campaign, but when it comes from a political party then they can GTF. It should be a free, open vote without the need for the party machines and their apparatchiks handing out leaflets based on fear.

[Aldo1983]

Well that's me voted. I voted out. If I wasn't sure how I was going to vote then a letter through the door last night from the SNP would have convinced me to vote out, just to piss that lot of sanctimonious c*nts right off.

I don't mind anything through from either campaign, but when it comes from a political party then they can GTF. It should be a free, open vote without the need for the party machines and their apparatchiks handing out leaflets based on fear.

So it's more to do with the SNP if you are being honest? ;)

I've had plenty of leaflets from the rest of them. I also got one featuring poppies and war heroes on the front with the quote "they fought for or freedom - vote leave"

[Stupie82]

Well as I said when I started this thread, I have voted OUT. Not even my beloved SNP party convinced me otherwise. It could well be I wake up tomorrow and still be in the EU, but that's the nature of the beast. When my parents originally voted for the common market in 75, they would never have imagined it would turn into what it is now. That is only going to continue until it is a federation with a single government. I maybe accused of being far fetched, but the EU will continue to evolve into something the people didn't vote for. I don't want the UK or Scotland top be any part of that.

[LED]

Bollox. The EU will not "fall" any time soon. No matter how much some folk dream that's going to happen, it's simply bollox.

England will vote to stay in it tomorrow and it will be even stronger as a result. It's only ever been going in one direction. Granted they rushed into letting too many poorer countries in too soon but they will work through it.

Nobody will ever leave.
You obviously haven't been looking at the economic data that has becoming out if the EU zone the last month. Intact even today the French economy has shrunk in the last four months which could push it and EU into recession again.

[TheDeeDon]

So it's more to do with the SNP if you are being honest? ;)

I've had plenty of leaflets from the rest of them. I also got one featuring poppies and war heroes on the front with the quote "they fought for or freedom - vote leave"

I never, ever read anything put through my door from a political party. I am able to make up my own mind without their lies to influence me. I was an SNP voter, up until last months election, but their stance on this vote has pissed me off greatly.

For me this vote shouldn't have been about party politics, but the SNP being the SNP couldn't help themself. If the fecker comes to me door tonight asking how I have voted he may regret the day he put on an SNP badge and knocked on my door.

[Mason89]

That's not really the SNPs fault to be fair. They were always going to push for a remain vote, while hoping they didn't get it.

[dons8321]

I never, ever read anything put through my door from a political party. I am able to make up my own mind without their lies to influence me. I was an SNP voter, up until last months election, but their stance on this vote has pissed me off greatly.

For me this vote shouldn't have been about party politics, but the SNP being the SNP couldn't help themself. If the fecker comes to me door tonight asking how I have voted he may regret the day he put on an SNP badge and knocked on my door.


Doesn't exactly tie up with what you said in post 157 " If I wasn't sure how I was going to vote then a letter through the door last night from the SNP would have convinced me to vote out, just to piss that lot of sanctimonious c*nts right off."

[Getintaethem]

They were always going to push for a remain vote, while hoping they didn't get it.

I am not sure. Jim Sillars states that there was no explicit terms in the manifesto that called for another referendum. This means the SNP would not have a mandate to hold one in this parliament. You can forget all the... something significant happening like a vote to leave the EU cos they knew there would be a referendum and this was not in their manifesto either.

I think this is more that the SNP have to be seen by their voters to look at options around a referendum. Personally, I cannot see that happening until after 2020 but the SNP is unlikely to get another majority so it is unlikely to happen for years to come. Sorry to disappoint but I think this is the reality.

Only my opinion mind.

[Brian Grantland]

all that really matters surely is Keith's mum

[Barnared]

You obviously haven't been looking at the economic data that has becoming out if the EU zone the last month. Intact even today the French economy has shrunk in the last four months which could push it and EU into recession again.
So what?

[TheDeeDon]

Doesn't exactly tie up with what you said in post 157 " If I wasn't sure how I was going to vote then a letter through the door last night from the SNP would have convinced me to vote out, just to piss that lot of sanctimonious c*nts right off."

I got a letter pushed through my door last night at 9:30 from the SNP, it went straight in the (recycle) bin unread, just like all the others I have received, it wasn't read just the fact I received a letter from them hacked me off.

I just don't like the way that the SNP machine has politicised the debate up here and spun the same type of lies which the Westminster parties used during the independence referendum.

[Aldo1983]

I got a letter pushed through my door

Some right aggressive Nazi party stuff right there.


I just don't like the way that the SNP machine has politicised the debate

Political party politicising debate shocker!

[terenceandphilip]

I'm 'in' but I'm not 100% (is anyone?)

Most annoying things of the whole debate are:

1. "Give us the facts" Jeezo, what planet are people on? The future is open, noone knows. If it was a fact and not an opinion or guess which way was better, we would know. Its a fact the earth is round, it's not a fact that being in the EU is better or worse.

2. Old people voting out. FFS. You'll be deid soon, it doesn't affect you, it's 2016 not 1920. People have been to other countries. Spaghetti goesn't grow on trees, foreigners are not weird, the French don't live on garlic. I would have capped the vote at 70. (max)

[Barnared]

There's nae way you should be allowed to vote once your retired, never mind 70.

[Buc]

There's nae way you should be allowed to vote once your retired, never mind 70.

:?
Hoi what are you saying Barnred you may get old too and then you will see things differently.

[Getintaethem]

:?
Hoi what are you saying Barnred you may get old too and then you will see things differently.

someone that is voting for the anti-democratic state that the EU has become like Barnared... no wonder he does not understand what democracy is all about...

anyway, I came upon this. I came across this and could not agree with it more.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/eu-may-well-survive-todays-vote-left-wont/

[LED]

So what?
Because the UK is one of the largest net contributor to the EU budget, if there is recession in the EU then the UK is asked to contribute more in order to help our fellow European cousins.

That would mean less money for us to spend on NHS, schools, welfare cheats etc.

[Barnared]

someone that is voting for the anti-democratic state that the EU has become like Barnared... no wonder he does not understand what democracy is all about...
What a total w@nk of a post that was.

That is the kind of drivel that I've heard whenever a brexit lover has been faced with someone who doesn't give a phuk what he/she thinks about the EU.

You assume 2 things incorrectly as you make a fool of yourself. 1- people that don't share your views don't understand democracy. 2- I voted for something.



Bring on the Euro €€€ XD

[Barnared]

Because the UK is one of the largest net contributor to the EU budget, if there is recession in the EU then the UK is asked to contribute more in order to help our fellow European cousins.

That would mean less money for us to spend on NHS, schools, welfare cheats etc.

Economic systems in all countries go up, then go down...then up, then down etc etc. Fact of life, there will be recession and there will be growth. So phukin what.

[Barnared]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Brexit (HBO): http://youtu.be/iAgKHSNqxa8
http://youtu.be/iAgKHSNqxa8

[Mason89]

Democracy has never worked in the history of the human race. Pensioners shouldn't be allowed to vote in the same way children aren't.

COYR

[Barnared]

Don't know what happened with the last link but this daft 5 mins edit rule is annoying.

Anyway try again. Song at the end is funny.


http://youtu.be/iAgKHSNqxa8

[Rochead]

Democracy has never worked in the history of the human race. Pensioners shouldn't be allowed to vote in the same way children aren't.

COYR

Why should pensioners not be allowed to vote?

[Mason89]

Why should pensioners not be allowed to vote?

Self interest mainly but there's a fairly long list of reasons.

[Rochead]

Self interest mainly but there's a fairly long list of reasons.

Self interest I can understand, be interesting to know what the long list is. Some of the comments regarding older people not being allowed to vote sounds like something Germany's Nazi party would have been proud off.

Perhaps a fairer system would be an IQ figure above 10 before voting. Judging by some of the suggestions on here some people would be ineligible.

[Barnared]

Self interest I can understand, be interesting to know what the long list is. Some of the comments regarding older people not being allowed to vote sounds like something Germany's Nazi party would have been proud off.

Perhaps a fairer system would be an IQ figure above 10 before voting. Judging by some of the suggestions on here some people would be ineligible.
Don't be daft. The Nazis didn't give anyone a vote.....always with the blooody Nazis.

[NEM83]

here we go here we go here we go

:D

[Aldo1983]

Bloody separatists

[Getintaethem]

Bollox. The EU will not "fall" any time soon. No matter how much some folk dream that's going to happen, it's simply bollox.

England will vote to stay in it tomorrow and it will be even stronger as a result. It's only ever been going in one direction. Granted they rushed into letting too many poorer countries in too soon but they will work through it.

Nobody will ever leave.

Barnared... just for you and all your **** posts...

GIFRUY.

Edit: I respect all other posters opinions on this subject and your votes.

[andoplzcumbak]

The fear of the immigrant boogeyman has won.

[ragnarok]

I'm in a state of shock to be honest. Can't quite believe this has happened especially given that it looked as though Remain would win quite comfortably just after the polls had closed (with Johnson and Farage both reported to have 'conceded').

The left definitely requires new leadership. It has basically turned into a small group of privileged liberal metro elites sneering at and lecturing the rest of the country and preoccupied with pet social projects that are of little concern to the population at large.

[Getintaethem]

I'm in a state of shock to be honest. Can't quite believe this has happened especially given that it looked as though Remain would win quite comfortably just after the polls had closed (with Johnson and Farage both reported to have 'conceded').

The left definitely requires new leadership. It has basically turned into a small group of privileged liberal metro elites sneering at and lecturing the rest of the country and preoccupied with pet social projects that are of little concern to the population at large.

Agree with all that. I think the only one that can save the left is Giesla Stewart. Giesla is absolutely believable and it was her more than anyone in the debates that convinced the labour voters to vote for Brexit. Just listened to a bunch of them and they are basically blaming the people, they are blaming the government, they are blaming immigration... anyone but themselves. There needs to be a complete change in the type of people in Labour for them to get back but with their leader and top people it looks very difficult.

[andoplzcumbak]

Too many blairites in Labour. A massive majority voted Corbyn in, he's been fighting these blairite pricks half the time! Get rid o them and Labour can move on.

[Getintaethem]

Too many blairites in Labour. A massive majority voted Corbyn in, he's been fighting these blairite pricks half the time! Get rid o them and Labour can move on.

40 years in the making. I found this video inspiring and it reminded me of how noble our politicians once were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j-Gb8Pk2Pk

I disagree that Corbyn is the answer though. He is no more in touch with the working classes in this country as Blair. To me he represents an elitist London based section of society that has no idea about the working class. Giesla Stewart on the other hand...

[Mason89]

I'm looking forward to seeing one new hospital built every week. They are going to build them right?

[Pacman1903]

I'm looking forward to seeing one new hospital built every week. They are going to build them right?

I see the pound has nose dived to a 31 year low, future markets crashed already too.

[Pacman1903]

I wonder how much the new passports will cost. Serious question

[Aldo1983]

Who cares how much a passport costs...

http://i65.tinypic.com/v6r98h.jpg


Farage already been on the telly saying the £350m for the NHS was a lot of ****e.

I see the polls have older people overwhelmingly voting out. Thanks old people. Selfish c'unts.

[Aldo1983]

Ach it'll all be fine. Dust will settle.

[The_Verninator]

I put my right hand in,
I put my right hand out,
In out, in out.
shake it all about.

I love it when a plan comes together

http://i67.tinypic.com/2q9cn00.jpg

[NEM83]

The fear of the immigrant boogeyman has won.


the race card :zzz:

[LED]

Bollox. The EU will not "fall" any time soon. No matter how much some folk dream that's going to happen, it's simply bollox.

England will vote to stay in it tomorrow and it will be even stronger as a result. It's only ever been going in one direction. Granted they rushed into letting too many poorer countries in too soon but they will work through it.

Nobody will ever leave.
That's now looking like a rather foolish post now. Not only has Britain decided to leave but I would suggest the whole deck of cards will now come tumbling down starting with France next.

[TheDeeDon]

If the out vote wins, it will be interesting to see how it effects David Cameron... IMO, his position would surely be untenable considering he is pro EU and called the referendum in the 1st place. It would also be interesting to see where it would leave Scotland on a second referendum.

Its obvious people think voting IN will be an easier option than voting OUT, mostly because folk fear change, but I cant see how staying in the EU can benefit us in the long term. For me, its a definite out vote and I think "out" will prevail on the day.

Cap doffed to you Stupie - You got it spot on. Although I voted out, I didn't think they had a cat in hells chance of winning.

I have a feeling we will be back at the polls for another EU vote within the next 18 months and cannot see anything other than another referendum for Scotland at some point soon.

[neilthedon]

I see the pound has nose dived to a 31 year low, future markets crashed already too.

Those stock markets are fannies !!, It'll go up a wee bit in the next couple of weeks. Then it depends how our westminsterites handle this.

a confidant statement of intent to " open borders and trade with the World AND Europe". Would get it rising again.

Our biggest problem now , is there may be a too long period of stagnation and decline , while the conservatives fanny around with internal power struggles and choosing a new leader/ policy.

I take the view that this is a great opportunity to get out there and sell , sell , sell. And Europe realy needs to engage with this , or their economies will be far worse off too.

So, let's just watch our elected representatives completely miss the point and carry on with their petty internal squabbles !!!

[TheDeeDon]

Those stock markets are fannies !!, It'll go up a wee bit in the next couple of weeks. Then it depends how our westminsterites handle this.

a confidant statement of intent to " open borders and trade with the World AND Europe". Would get it rising again.

Our biggest problem now , is there may be a too long period of stagnation and decline , while the conservatives fanny around with internal power struggles and choosing a new leader/ policy.

I take the view that this is a great opportunity to get out there and sell , sell , sell. And Europe realy needs to engage with this , or their economies will be far worse off too.

So, let's just watch our elected representatives completely miss the point and carry on with their petty internal squabbles !!!

Exactly - Now is the time for all politicians in the UK to earn their corn, but no, it will all be about positioning themselves to survive and stay on board the gravy train. It is also going to be a good few years before we actually leave the EU, if we ever do...

[dons8321]

I wonder how much the new passports will cost. Serious question

Not just a question of cost though. How are they going to issue 30 million (roughly) new passports in 3-4 years?

[Pacman1903]

Not just a question of cost though. How are they going to issue 30 million (roughly) new passports in 3-4 years?


I have two passports, so the better get working on it and give me them for free and Boris Joghnson pays out his own pocket for the (up to) 65 million passports

Speaking of travel, will we need visa to hit mainland Europe now. If so does that mean transit visa to connect at Schipol, Frankfurt etc.

Another thing I was thinking, take my old job. Fast response flying squad(like numerous other countries have), the purpose to fly out to jobs within 24 hours to fix break downs etc abroad and offshore, it was a huge earner for the company. I did my fair share on the mainland, Germany and Italy in particular. Will this be possible when the "Brexit" happens. "Aye sorry pal, we would be with you if we could but we need to apply for a visa for our guy and that will take 5 working days, hud tight min"

[AberdeenArnold]

Once again Scotland gets a decision that it didn't vote for.

[Stupie82]

Once again Scotland gets a decision that it didn't vote for.

As a whole, not it didn't. As part of the United Kingdom, technically it did. Im seeing so many people on social media greeting about the vote, but had voted No in the referendum. Tough ****e on those lot im afraid. They are quite happy to be in a union when it suits their agenda, but are unwilling to accept a democratic vote for the union when it goes against their beliefs.

You now have a four way problem. You have those who voted Out and want indy, those who Voted out and don't want indy, those who voted in and want indy and finally those who voted in and don't want indy. Its a mess. I voted Out last night and I stand by that decision, however I also supported independence.

What gets my back up is folk (not on here) accusing me of being some right wing nationalist, wanting to see Nigel and his crew tearing foreigners from there homes, just because I voted out. I couldn't disagree with Farages views anymore if I tried. He is a moron and a down right Xenophobic cuunt. I voted for completely different reasons and I stand by them.

[ILikeJam]

Those stock markets are fannies !!


I dunno like, they can have their uses...

http://i64.tinypic.com/143jiad.jpg

[terenceandphilip]

The demographics of the Brexit vote should surprise noone. I wouldn't have let the over 70s vote. They've pulled us out, and it won't affect them one bit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/

[neilthedon]

Once again Scotland gets a decision that it didn't vote for.

Aye, thon Democracy thing is nae eese issit ?!!

[neilthedon]

I have two passports, so the better get working on it and give me them for free and Boris Joghnson pays out his own pocket for the (up to) 65 million passports

Speaking of travel, will we need visa to hit mainland Europe now. If so does that mean transit visa to connect at Schipol, Frankfurt etc.

Another thing I was thinking, take my old job. Fast response flying squad(like numerous other countries have), the purpose to fly out to jobs within 24 hours to fix break downs etc abroad and offshore, it was a huge earner for the company. I did my fair share on the mainland, Germany and Italy in particular. Will this be possible when the "Brexit" happens. "Aye sorry pal, we would be with you if we could but we need to apply for a visa for our guy and that will take 5 working days, hud tight min"

In the Old days you`d hurl up to a Border point anywhere in Europe, join the Q. Show your passport, and they`d wave you through. On the nether regions of Europe they`d stamp it. But thats all. Nae bother. It`ll just be the same. We all show our passports coming in and out of UK even now anyway ?

[Mason89]

Aye, thon Democracy thing is nae eese issit ?!!

Correct. It'll be the downfall of civilisation

[neilthedon]

Aye, thon democracy thing is nae eese issit ? Again !!

They`ve worked all their lives, they`ve paid their taxes, etc etc. Dinna greet aboot it noo !!!

[neilthedon]

Too true Mason. We need something like they had in Spain under Franco,.....err, no hang on. Maybe an American style " Democracy" oh no , that doesn`t seem to work too well either.
Maybe a European parliament with Commissioners chosen by the inner circle, err no , we just said no to that ,......Heck. Thon democracy is nae eese i:?vvaa !!!

[AberdeenArnold]

Aye, thon Democracy thing is nae eese issit ?!!

It'll be the same democracy that will bring Indyref2 though.

Scotland won't leave the EU but it will leave the UK.

[neilthedon]

Ach, it`ll calm down, eventually.

Bit tricky for my bisiness. I import from the States and sell in the UK.

( My European business tailed off a good few years ago with the £ too strong agains the Euro. But as my costs go up , current state still won`t help !! )

FREEDOM !!! Comes at a cost. Always !!

[neilthedon]

Aye, I`m all for an independant Scotland. But it`ll probably greatly weaken the remains of the UK a.k.a England . They haven`t worked that out yet. Our exports even without oil are pretty strong part of our UK export trade.

I`m also very pro European. But think that the current Euro parliament thing is broken, and can`t be changed from within. Too much self interest . It needs to be broken down and started up again.

It`s going to hurt. For a good while .

[elginred]

Good post Stupie.That's where I'm at., although last night I still hadn't found enough reasons to swing my opinion one way or the other, so didn't vote in the end . Think an indy ref would be in poor taste.
Now that it's happened, maybe the EU empire has gotten too big and corrupt, like previous empires, and this is the kick up the arse it needs

[Skacel]

I wonder how much the new passports will cost. Serious question

Most likely your current passport(s) will be valid until they expire and when you renew you will get the new non EU passport.

[Rochead]

Scotland voted to stay in the UK, yesterday was a vote for the whole of the UK, it was not a vote on whether Scotland should have another vote on separation. SNP are unable to accept the result of any election that does not go its way.

[Skacel]

Scotland voted to stay in the UK, yesterday was a vote for the whole of the UK, it was not a vote on whether Scotland should have another vote on separation. SNP are unable to accept the result of any election that does not go its way.

Exactly. You could see this coming a mile off. This is what the no voters voted for so sit down and shut up #BetterTogether

[Rochead]

The demographics of the Brexit vote should surprise noone. I wouldn't have let the over 70s vote. They've pulled us out, and it won't affect them one bit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/


On your way off thinking we should also have stopped unskilled, semi skilled and lower educated people as they also voted to leave, and the there is over a million Scots voted leave, if they could have been identified beforehand they could have been stopped from voting, and then there is the 60 to 70 age group, apparently they were partly to blame. Democracy! What a bummer.

[Jormungand]

Phuckin hell

[Getintaethem]

I was up all night and I have to admit around 9am I had a "what the **** have we just done" moment. But I am now over that and looking forward to the future.

The EU as it stands is broken. It should never have been about politics only economics but we are where we are. The major issues with the EU are not going to go away overnight or easily such as the Euro, slow growth, undemocratic structures etc. The far right wing across Europe is just going to grow and grow. It just feeds off of social discontentment and the EU has done nothing but feed this. Could France actually vote in a far right leader next year? I would not bet against it. They do not have their problems to find that is for sure. Being pro European this pains me but these problems are systemic and we could never have solved them from within - proven by the small changes Cameron was able to negotiate. Hopefully, coming out will act as a catalyst for the countries remaining in the EU to tackle them. I have my doubts and that is why I believe others will almost certainly leave.

[gervaise_brookhampst]

Phuckin hell

I concur.

Wife's buisness is wholly reliable on the single market and the movement of goods in the eu, she will now lose her company because our country is being dragged out of the EU against our countries will. This is a nightmare :blue:

[neilthedon]

I concur.

Wife's buisness is wholly reliable on the single market and the movement of goods in the eu, she will now lose her company because our country is being dragged out of the EU against our countries will. This is a nightmare :blue:

Dinna panic min !! There will be ways around it all.

We all survived trading before EEC . We`ll survive after it.

After all, it`s only been a matter of hours so far. And there`s a two year exit schedule before it all kicks in ?

[Mason89]

Dinna panic min !! There will be ways around it all.

We all survived trading before EEC . We`ll survive after it.

After all, it`s only been a matter of hours so far. And there`s a two year exit schedule before it all kicks in ?


Any suggestions?

I'm not sure if it's really your place to tell people if they can panic or not.

[Brian Grantland]

Dinna panic min !! There will be ways around it all.

We all survived trading before EEC . We`ll survive after it.

After all, it`s only been a matter of hours so far. And there`s a two year exit schedule before it all kicks in ?

that was before globalisation and we still owned large swathes of the world.
one of the reasons we joined the eec was because that was ending.
if someone's job is reliant on trade with europe there will be a material change in their circumstances, costs and barriers to entry to european markets will exist.
only a fool would see it otherwise.

there is no phucking plan
these leave halfwits don't have one, or have you not been watching the news.

[gervaise_brookhampst]

Yup she may get a couple more years out of it hopefully, but when we leave the EU the service she does reporting goods movements within the EU becomes redundant.......That will be it .....tatties :(

[Getintaethem]

that was before globalisation and we still owned large swathes of the world.
one of the reasons we joined the eec was because that was ending.
if someone's job is reliant on trade with europe there will be a material change in their circumstances, costs and barriers to entry to european markets will exist.
only a fool would see it otherwise.

there is no phucking plan
these leave halfwits don't have one, or have you not been watching the news.

I cannot comment on the above example because the poster does not provide details of what the company is selling and what constraints etc. there are that are the issue here. I am happy to if this information is provided and I can provided. But in general jobs will not be at risk. This was even admitted by the Remain campaign's economic forecasts when they were not forecasting reduction in GDP but a reduction in the increase of GDP and no examples of specific jobs or industries going down were provided.

The major reason for joining the EEC was not in fact because we still owned vast swathes of the world it was because that world commerce was done in a high tariff environment. Joining the EEC was a way of stopping these high tariffs. Now we live in a world with low tariffs.

"if someone's job is reliant on trade with europe there will be a material change in their circumstances, costs and barriers to entry to european markets" - I assume you mean the EU here. How do you come to this conclusion? So, what you are saying here is any company that is not in the EU cannot trade with the EU because of all these issues and the people will lose their jobs. Should really tell that to the US with no trade deal, India, China whose trade with the EU is going up year on year... There are many Chinese companies that sell predominantly into the EU.

There is a plan and that plan is that the UK gets free trade access into the EU. There are a number of ways this could be achieved. The details of this need to be worked out. So what? Were all the details for Scottish Independence worked out before the referendum? It is actually better than that because if there is not an agreement around free trade (highly unlikely) we can use WTO rules as the worst case scenario.

With WTO rules jobs should not be at risk... or if it is then the company is so insecure financially that it would probably go under anyway. I do not know what the business is that this poster is talking about, but the change in the exchange rate between the UK and Euro today alone would easily offset this tariff. In fact, exchange rates go up and down all the time and businesses do not go out of business. I am not entirely sure why this business will go out of business because he does not explain the reasons behind why he believes this to be the case. The only conceivable way that it would be (without knowing something about the business) is if he is assuming that the market will close. If the business cannot handle 5% tariffs it certainly cannot handle the fluctuations in normal exchange rates between the £ and the €.

Regards

The HalfWit

[Getintaethem]

Yup she may get a couple more years out of it hopefully, but when we leave the EU the service she does reporting goods movements within the EU becomes redundant.......That will be it .....tatties :(

Ah, so this is a special case unlike the general case Brian was talking about.

Is it Intrastat reporting or good requiring licenses your wife is involved in or something else entirely?

[gervaise_brookhampst]

Yup Intrastat

[Getintaethem]

In this circumstance you do have uncertainty for this specialist business I agree. I do not think it is certain that it will go away though. It will depend on what type of deal is agreed.

I can understand your concerns.

[neilthedon]

that was before globalisation and we still owned large swathes of the world.
one of the reasons we joined the eec was because that was ending.
if someone's job is reliant on trade with europe there will be a material change in their circumstances, costs and barriers to entry to european markets will exist.
only a fool would see it otherwise.

there is no phucking plan
these leave halfwits don't have one, or have you not been watching the news.


No , I`m sure our cocky Westminster Govt did not make a contingency plan for losing. Just like they underestimated the Scottish referendum too. You`d have thought they would have learned just a little from that ?!!

But I was trying to be re-assuring to somebody feart of losing their job , hours after the decision. There is time yet to review it all, and MAYBE there is an option available for the future. I know what it`s like to be made redundant. Happened to me twice while working in Aberdeen. You adapt , find something different , or similar with the skills you have. I`m sure Gervaises Lass will be fine . It`s just all a bit up in the air today.

But it seems I`m a fool for doing that. ? Despite watching the news.!!

One thing I am sure of though. We wILL still be trading with Europe today , tomorrow and forever onwards. And yes, the methods and circumstances will alter. .....slightly. Unless the Germans decide to stop selling us BMW`s at more than they can get for them in their Home market. And the French decide to completely stop trying to sell us their Wine ?
Can`t see that happening. ?

[Getintaethem]

Yup Intrastat

I just posted on the other thread (indy ref mark II) about the negotiation. I am sure your wife is far more expert in this area than me but if we had access to the common market as described (instead of a new trade agreement) would this at least provide some hope that her services (in one form or another) would still be required moving forward?

I hope it works out for you and your wife.

[gervaise_brookhampst]

I just posted on the other thread (indy ref mark II) about the negotiation. I am sure your wife is far more expert in this area than me but if we had access to the common market as described (instead of a new trade agreement) would this at least provide some hope that her services (in one form or another) would still be required moving forward?

I hope it works out for you and your wife.

Cheers min ( we really do need a 'like' button back) Hope your right, things a bit calmer now, just have to wait and see what the future holds. Thanks anyway to yourself and neilthedon for your concern. Nice bunch of folk on here (well mostly ....I'm looking at you Buc....only joking XD:p)

[stewarty27]

Corbyn grows a pair, Just sack Hilda Benn for plotting against him ! Pa Benn win be chuntin n duncin in his grave XD

[Buc]

Cheers min ( we really do need a 'like' button back) Hope your right, things a bit calmer now, just have to wait and see what the future holds. Thanks anyway to yourself and neilthedon for your concern. Nice bunch of folk on here (well mostly ....I'm looking at you Buc....only joking XD:p)

:)
Aye the missing like button isn't good its always good to like a post that been a good one.

[Buc]

I concur.

Wife's buisness is wholly reliable on the single market and the movement of goods in the eu, she will now lose her company because our country is being dragged out of the EU against our countries will. This is a nightmare :blue:

She won't lose that now GB.B)

[Brian Grantland]

She won't lose that now GB.B)

do you know something no one else does

or are you just playing fantasy politics in your head

[Rochead]

Can we have a referendum to decide on the like button, I'm in the Aye camp.

[Landvetter83]

Can we have a referendum to decide on the like button, I'm in the Aye camp.

Exactly! Where the f@@k have all my likes gone?

Is Thursday's game still on now that we've voted oot? ;D

Better be - I'm booked for the away leg. Might just have to visit an EU institution instead - for posterity like ....

Anyways, Happy Days lads. 25 years overdue .... but worth the wait .... :D

[Brian Grantland]

Arse has fair fallen out of the bold Brexit Boris

[actonsheep]

What gets my back up is folk (not on here) accusing me of being some right wing nationalist, wanting to see Nigel and his crew tearing foreigners from there homes, just because I voted out. I couldn't disagree with Farages views anymore if I tried. He is a moron and a down right Xenophobic cuunt. I voted for completely different reasons and I stand by them.

I'm sure your reasons were very noble, and I'd never accuse you of being racist, but it doesn't change the fact you backed a campaign whose central message was based on xenophobia and a fear of the other. This has now unleashed something this country simply can't deal with. Racists are empowered. People who have made their lives here now feel like aliens in their own homes. Our European friends are going to look at every single one of us and wonder if we voted for them, and their kin to be denied the right to live here. Relationships are being broken, lives are being ruined. These are real human costs, not numbers on a ticker tape.

I don't care terribly much about the cost to the economy, it will recover - the cost to our relationships with our european friends? Probably not so much.

Never in the history of ever, has a left wing movement gained control of a situation where its being led by the right, never. Labour deciding to eat itself just as a power vacuum emerges really doesn't help.

Lexit is a fine proposition, but it needed the right people, in the right place, at the right time. This wasn't it, and its likely the chance has gone - in the meantime we've gifted the country to a bunch of utter f'uckwits.

[Getintaethem]

Acton - I have real sympathy for your views.

I consider myself pro European and pro immigration. However, it is not xenophobic to wish to take back control to a certain degree who comes to this country. If that were the case then Australia, Japan, China, India, South Africa, America, Mexico, Cuba and the majority of countries are xenophobic. The language from both sides was terrible throughout and played on the fears of certain groups of the population. As one group made one claim, the other made another both getting more extreme as it went on. Remain played on fears around the economy which were so extreme that they became counter productive and Leave around immigration, which especially in the final three weeks dominated the debate. I found both over played and pretty repugnant.

Secondly, just because one group attaches themselves to a cause for their own ends does not make the cause illegitimate. The campaign to leave the EU in the UK started out as a left wing cause with the likes of Tony Benn. The evidence, right up to his death, is that he would have supported coming out of the EU. Immigration is a relatively new issue but for decades people have campaigned to leave the EU.

I made my decision mostly not on immigration but on democracy, the actions of the EU against democratically elected governments in Europe and the general direction the EU was taking. I find the EU to be pro big banks (their actions against Greece are in large around protecting huge banks!) and big multinational business. The Remain camp was largely funded by the large banks. This is hardly a left wing ideal.

[Getintaethem]

Corbyn grows a pair, Just sack Hilda Benn for plotting against him ! Pa Benn win be chuntin n duncin in his grave XD

I do have a sneaky admiration for Corbyn with all these resignations. Reminds me of the Billy Connolly story when his Dad had a stroke and he was paralysed down one side of his body and when he visited him in hospital he raised his non paralysed hand up to God and said "Is this the best you have ****ing got".

[Brian Grantland]

now whilst it is fair to say that not all leave voters are racist
it is also fair to say that all racists voted leave
they now feel emboldened and legitimised by the vote and are not hiding under rocks any more

[Barnared]

Barnared... just for you and all your **** posts...

GIFRUY.

Edit: I respect all other posters opinions on this subject and your votes.

Its not me you should be apologizing to....

[Stupie82]

now whilst it is fair to say that not all leave voters are racist
it is also fair to say that all racists voted leave
they now feel emboldened and legitimised by the vote and are not hiding under rocks any more

Is that the same as not all w@nkers are Celtic fans, but all Celtic fans are W@ankers :-)

[Brian Grantland]

Is that the same as not all w@nkers are Celtic fans, but all Celtic fans are W@ankers :-)

very same

[Barnared]

Well, well, well. Hodgson seems to be the only Englishman with a concise and coherent plan to take England out of Europe.

Phuked off out of Europe twice in a week. Beats the dhims record.

[Rochead]

Sturgeon has a better chance of getting us into Europe than Strachan.