I voted yes....but felt like I'd been kicked in the ba's the day

[Red_Zeppelin]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37219612

"A Nobel prize-winning economist says Scotland's plans for a currency union with the UK during the independence campaign may have been a mistake"

I feel like I've been lied to and cheated.

and don't get me started on you know who wanting us to join the EU and sign up to phukk knows what currency.

[Mook1]

It's probably your leather keks that are making you feel like you've had a boot in the baws.

[Red_Zeppelin]

I'll boot you in the ba's if ye keep spouting shyte......yer cards marked laddie.

[stewarty27]

You'll be fine Zep, come Independence we will be using our own currency probably the Scottish pound linked to our own central bank. We will most defo NOT be using the Euro as its optional to join and even if we did want to join we couldn't as we don't meet the criteria. You're right to feel you've been lied and cheated on. You have.... but it wasn't from the Yes side that's for sure.

[noahrab]

You'll be fine Zep, come Independence we will be using our own currency probably the Scottish pound linked to our own central bank. We will most defo NOT be using the Euro as its optional to join and even if we did want to join we couldn't as we don't meet the criteria. You're right to feel you've been lied and cheated on. You have.... but it wasn't from the Yes side that's for sure.

Any country joining the EU has to adopt the euro at some stage.

It isn't optional.

[JackSnakes]

Any country joining the EU has to adopt the euro at some stage.

It isn't optional.

At some stage... This is true...

[Hairdrier]

There are 9 EU countries that don't use the Euro as currency.

[Red_Zeppelin]

how many of those 9 are countries that joined after the euro currency was rolled out???

[Hairdrier]

how many of those 9 are countries that joined after the euro currency was rolled out???

Denmark has been in the European Union since the early 70's and hasn't succumbed to the Euro.

[stewarty27]

At some stage... This is true...

In theory yes Jack in reality seldom happens, Sweden good example the people said they didn't want it in 2003 so it never happened. Both the UK and Denmark have opted outs. All that would be thrashed out in negotiations. Scotland will start its Independence with its own currency probably the pound linked to its own central bank. Would prob shadow the UK pound for the first few years. Personally I don't particularly care what kind of money I have in my pocket all the same to me.

[Taintedice]

Whatever options they come up with next time, it cannot include any expectation of cooperation with or from England, which should be treated as a hostile entity, just as the Baltic States treated Russia as hostile. England will not look to do Scotland any favours at all, so less naivety from the SNP would be good if they're really serious about staging a second referendum.

[Nevermore666]

In theory yes Jack in reality seldom happens, Sweden good example the people said they didn't want it in 2003 so it never happened. Both the UK and Denmark have opted outs. All that would be thrashed out in negotiations. Scotland will start its Independence with its own currency probably the pound linked to its own central bank. Would prob shadow the UK pound for the first few years. Personally I don't particularly care what kind of money I have in my pocket all the same to me.

You not want to adopt the shekel stewy?

[noahrab]

In theory yes Jack in reality seldom happens, Sweden good example the people said they didn't want it in 2003 so it never happened. Both the UK and Denmark have opted outs. All that would be thrashed out in negotiations. Scotland will start its Independence with its own currency probably the pound linked to its own central bank. Would prob shadow the UK pound for the first few years. Personally I don't particularly care what kind of money I have in my pocket all the same to me.

Phuck all to do with theory.

The reality is their is no more opt outs.

A few posts ago you said it was optional.

[JackSnakes]

Hardly matters as long as it's spendable. Can't actually see why anyone would give the slightest fk what currency was used, as long as it was recognised and tradeable.

[Mook1]

Hardly matters as long as it's spendable. Can't actually see why anyone would give the slightest fk what currency was used, as long as it was recognised and tradeable.

They might give a phuck when the price of everything rockets like it did in Ireland.

[noahrab]

Hardly matters as long as it's spendable. Can't actually see why anyone would give the slightest fk what currency was used, as long as it was recognised and tradeable.

One big issue the last time was Salmonds insistence that we would get a currency union with RUK despite the RUK telling him it wouldn't happen.

[Red_Zeppelin]

could you imagine sturgeon on question time or standing up in front o the movers n shakers in oor business community and saying:

"Can't actually see why anyone would give the slightest fk what currency was used, as long as it was recognised and tradeable"

obviously she wouldn't use fk....but you get the drift.

she would get laughed at XD

[Taintedice]

Phukk the EU, no oil for them. Or whisky.

[stewarty27]

Phuck all to do with theory.

The reality is their is no more opt outs.

A few posts ago you said it was optional.


Yes I said it was "optional" then qualified it by saying in theory it was. But if you want to be pedantic (see I used your favourite word there) I assume you know what it means.

The Eurozone for Dummies and people called Paddy

The fact is Scotland couldn't join the Euro even if it wanted do. There is a thing called the The Eurozone Convergence Criteria.

The Eurozone Convergence Criteria (aka the Maastricht Criteria, as they were defined by the Maastricht Treaty in 1994) state five conditions that a country must fulfil before it is allowed entry into the Eurozone. These are:

1. Price stability – the country’s Consumer Price Inflation (HICP) rate must not be more than 1.5% above the rate of the three best performing Eurozone member states.

2. Sound public finances – the government’s deficit must not be higher than 3% of GDP.

3. Sustainable public finances – the government’s debt must not be higher than 60% of GDP.

4. Durability of convergence – the country’s long-term interest rate must not be more than 2% above the rate of the three best performing Eurozone member states in terms of price stability.

5. Exchange rate stability – the country’s existing currency must have been part of ERM II (Exchange Rate Mechanism II) for at least 2 years without severe tensions.

Now, let’s just think about how many of those conditions Scotland would fulfil on day one of independence because unless we met all five in full on Day 1 of independence, Errm Phuck all.

Whether Scotland could meet any of the first four as a brand new independent country is open to debate, quite simply because we’ll have a lack of history outside the UK to prove it.

An Indy Scotland would be commited to taking on their part of the UKs massive debt .unless we told the conniving Britnats to feck off which legally we could do. But we're better than that Ken ;D So we’ve taken on a proportionate share of the debt, we’re instantly buggered on 3 and possibly 2. following so far Paddy ?



But the last of the five – essentially the last step before any country can join the Eurozone – is membership of ERM II for a minimum of two years. Now, unless the current UK government has a complete reversal in policy towards the Euro pretty much right now, Scotland cannot possibly be said to have been in ERM II for two years on independence day, because right up until then Scotland’s currency will have been Sterling, and so won’t have been in ERM II for two minutes, never mind two years.

There’s simply no way the EU would bend this rule either, as Sweden’s continued policy of failing this rule on purpose to give a de facto Euro opt-out shows. So just as Scotland cannot be forced to join the Euro, we are also prevented from joining it voluntarily – just like Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland and Romania, all of whom want to join the Euro, but can’t because they don’t fulfil the five criteria (Sweden don’t want to, and the Czechs can’t seem to decide).

There is, of course, one other requirement which is not in the Maastricht Criteria, because to be bound by the Maastricht Criteria you must have one fundamental quality first – being a member of the EU ;D

So every person who talks of Scotland “joining the Euro” is implicitly confirming that they believe Scotland would be a full member of the EU on day one of independence. No EU membership, no Eurozone entry. (Unless you think Scotland is a micro-state like Monaco, San Marino and the Vatican City.)

There is one way Scotland could use the Euro without meeting the Maastricht Criteria. It’s the same way Montenegro are able to use the Euro, despite not being in the EU and not meeting the criteria. That is to use the Euro without permission, in the same way Scotland can use Sterling if it wants to, because the Euro is a fully convertible currency. (Of course, that’s not joining the Euro, that’s using the Euro.)

But if this was the option that journalists were referring to, then why limit our options to the Euro? Why not include the Danish, Norwegian or Swedish Kroner? The Swiss Franc? The Canadian Dollar, even? More to the point, if Scotland goes down the road of using a fully convertible currency without permission, then it’d be absurd and pointless to use anything but Sterling.

So bearing all that in mind, is there any chance that everyone could shut up until they have at least the vaguest beginnings of a clue what the hell they’re talking about?

Anyway this is and always been a red herring and part of project fear its really not as big an issue as the Britnats like to make it.

[Red_Zeppelin]

the very money we have in our pockets......not a big issue?......I shake my head.

so where are we now:

- the euro is a no go
- the sterling zone with the rest o the uk is also a no go (see link in first post)

- maybe we could go wi the scottish pound and find out its nae actually worth a sh1t.

[noahrab]

Yes I said it was "optional" then qualified it by saying in theory it was. But if you want to be pedantic (see I used your favourite word there) I assume you know what it means.

The Eurozone for Dummies and people called Paddy

The fact is Scotland couldn't join the Euro even if it wanted do. There is a thing called the The Eurozone Convergence Criteria.

The Eurozone Convergence Criteria (aka the Maastricht Criteria, as they were defined by the Maastricht Treaty in 1994) state five conditions that a country must fulfil before it is allowed entry into the Eurozone. These are:

1. Price stability – the country’s Consumer Price Inflation (HICP) rate must not be more than 1.5% above the rate of the three best performing Eurozone member states.

2. Sound public finances – the government’s deficit must not be higher than 3% of GDP.

3. Sustainable public finances – the government’s debt must not be higher than 60% of GDP.

4. Durability of convergence – the country’s long-term interest rate must not be more than 2% above the rate of the three best performing Eurozone member states in terms of price stability.

5. Exchange rate stability – the country’s existing currency must have been part of ERM II (Exchange Rate Mechanism II) for at least 2 years without severe tensions.

Now, let’s just think about how many of those conditions Scotland would fulfil on day one of independence because unless we met all five in full on Day 1 of independence, Errm Phuck all.

Whether Scotland could meet any of the first four as a brand new independent country is open to debate, quite simply because we’ll have a lack of history outside the UK to prove it.

An Indy Scotland would be commited to taking on their part of the UKs massive debt .unless we told the conniving Britnats to feck off which legally we could do. But we're better than that Ken ;D So we’ve taken on a proportionate share of the debt, we’re instantly buggered on 3 and possibly 2. following so far Paddy ?



But the last of the five – essentially the last step before any country can join the Eurozone – is membership of ERM II for a minimum of two years. Now, unless the current UK government has a complete reversal in policy towards the Euro pretty much right now, Scotland cannot possibly be said to have been in ERM II for two years on independence day, because right up until then Scotland’s currency will have been Sterling, and so won’t have been in ERM II for two minutes, never mind two years.

There’s simply no way the EU would bend this rule either, as Sweden’s continued policy of failing this rule on purpose to give a de facto Euro opt-out shows. So just as Scotland cannot be forced to join the Euro, we are also prevented from joining it voluntarily – just like Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland and Romania, all of whom want to join the Euro, but can’t because they don’t fulfil the five criteria (Sweden don’t want to, and the Czechs can’t seem to decide).

There is, of course, one other requirement which is not in the Maastricht Criteria, because to be bound by the Maastricht Criteria you must have one fundamental quality first – being a member of the EU ;D

So every person who talks of Scotland “joining the Euro” is implicitly confirming that they believe Scotland would be a full member of the EU on day one of independence. No EU membership, no Eurozone entry. (Unless you think Scotland is a micro-state like Monaco, San Marino and the Vatican City.)

There is one way Scotland could use the Euro without meeting the Maastricht Criteria. It’s the same way Montenegro are able to use the Euro, despite not being in the EU and not meeting the criteria. That is to use the Euro without permission, in the same way Scotland can use Sterling if it wants to, because the Euro is a fully convertible currency. (Of course, that’s not joining the Euro, that’s using the Euro.)

But if this was the option that journalists were referring to, then why limit our options to the Euro? Why not include the Danish, Norwegian or Swedish Kroner? The Swiss Franc? The Canadian Dollar, even? More to the point, if Scotland goes down the road of using a fully convertible currency without permission, then it’d be absurd and pointless to use anything but Sterling.

So bearing all that in mind, is there any chance that everyone could shut up until they have at least the vaguest beginnings of a clue what the hell they’re talking about?

Anyway this is and always been a red herring and part of project fear its really not as big an issue as the Britnats like to make it.

Withoot reading what you've just cut and pasted from some biased pysh like wingsoversomerset or some other propaganda site, it isn't 'optional' or 'in theory' but a matter of fact that you have to use the euro.

When that happens is another debate but it's a condition of joining.

Just admit you were wrong...again.

I have no problem with you wanting independence but please deal in facts as it makes you look desperate for it at any price, as opposed to those that want to know the price.

[stewarty27]

the very money we have in our pockets......not a big issue?......I shake my head.

so where are we now:

- the euro is a no go
- the sterling zone with the rest o the uk is also a no go (see link in first post)

- maybe we could go wi the scottish pound and find out its nae actually worth a sh1t.

Very pessimistic outlook Zep. The whole thing has changed since Brexit .The pound's value has dropped greatly since then and will prob never recover to what it was. The point I was making was its not the type of currency you have in your pocket its what its worth. I have listened to the Stiglitz interview and he did NOT say it was a mistake he said " it MAY have been a mistake" big difference !

The "mistake" the Yes side made was thinking there would be some kind of goodwill on the Unionist side and they would be logical about it. But they used it as a weapon !!! Yes thought that the Tories would act in a logical and reasonable manner.The shared currency proposal gave UKOK an opportunity to damage the Yes campaign by declining the SNP proposal,a proposal that Westminster couldn’t block in reality . A lesson learned, next time do not set out your stall assuming any cooperation with UKOK. That was what Stiglitz meant.
There is absolutely NO reason Scotland could not have its own currency probably the "Scottish Pound would be best. Why would the Scottish pound be... actually worth a sh1t. it would be a bona fide tradable currency like any other in the world. The only potential difference in currency valuations would occur if Scotland launched its own currency and the most likely outcome is that Scotland currency would be worth more than the rest of UK’s so we would have to devalue / peg our currency to sterling so that exchange rates didn’t make scottish goods and services to expensive for the R UK to buy.

[stewarty27]

Withoot reading what you've just cut and pasted from some biased pysh like wingsoversomerset or some other propaganda site, it isn't 'optional' or 'in theory' but a matter of fact that you have to use the euro.

When that happens is another debate but it's a condition of joining.

Just admit you were wrong...again.

I have no problem with you wanting independence but please deal in facts as it makes you look desperate for it at any price, as opposed to those that want to know the price.

Your issue dodging again Noah. What i posted was researched from alternative sources and they are facts. Facts taken from the EUs OWN Eurozone document, Sadly you won't find theses facts on the Unionist MSM as they don't suit their agenda. If its mandatory (is that what your saying ?) answer me this why didn't the UK ever join the Euro or Denmark or Sweden for that matter ?

[Taintedice]

A Scottish pound has to be tied to the English pound, which then leaves it vulnerable to events in England, such as Engxit which saw the £ drop dramatically. If it's a standalone currency, the barrowboys and spivs in London masquerading as currency traders will do everything to destabilise it, at the behest of a bitter English government who will see their own sterling zone plunge. Hope the SNP have a strategy.

[Taintedice]

I have no problem with you wanting independence but please deal in facts as it makes you look desperate for it at any price, as opposed to those that want to know the price.you should email that to the SNP headquarters as if they really want a second referendum they need to explain how everything will work instead of the nonsense fat eck came away with i.e. it'll be alright on the night. Which it won't.

[Taintedice]

Your issue dodging again Noah. What i posted was researched from alternative sources and they are facts. Facts taken from the EUs OWN Eurozone document, Sadly you won't find theses facts on the Unionist MSM as they don't suit their agenda. If its mandatory (is that what your saying ?) answer me this why didn't the UK ever join the Euro or Denmark or Sweden for that matter ?are you saying the EU can't change their conditions of entry to suit themselves? Malta joined in 2004 and now has the Euro, I was not aware of that myself until I asked for some Maltese lira :D. Doubt they were given a choice.

[stewarty27]

are you saying the EU can't change their conditions of entry to suit themselves? Malta joined in 2004 and now has the Euro, I was not aware of that myself until I asked for some Maltese lira :D. Doubt they were given a choice.

As far as I know Malta wanted to join the Euro as do most of the eurozone members. I'm not advocating an Indy Scotland use the euro I favour our own currency. But in saying that the Euro suits a lot of countries a lot of the time its the best option for them. In this country UK we have been tainted (no pun there ;D) to the Euro the xenophobia of the Tories and the likes of the daily mail/express has made use of the euro toxic more for "land of hope and glory reasons rather than pragmatic one's. For me if the price of Independence was using the Euro fine. But before Noah jumps in I'd much rather prefer our own currency.

[noahrab]

Your issue dodging again Noah. What i posted was researched from alternative sources and they are facts. Facts taken from the EUs OWN Eurozone document, Sadly you won't find theses facts on the Unionist MSM as they don't suit their agenda. If its mandatory (is that what your saying ?) answer me this why didn't the UK ever join the Euro or Denmark or Sweden for that matter ?

Sweden signed up knowing they have to join the euro sometime.

Denmark and the U.K. had an opt out...which doesn't happen anymore.

If you researched from reliable sources you would know that.

[noahrab]

you should email that to the SNP headquarters as if they really want a second referendum they need to explain how everything will work instead of the nonsense fat eck came away with i.e. it'll be alright on the night. Which it won't.

Nail, head, hammer.

Those who want independence at any cost are the ones who have closed minds. Those open to independence but want to know the cost are called traitors, britnats blah blah blah.

Wee stuartie has said if having the euro was the price for independence he would happily accept it.

Wonder what would be too high a price to pay :O

[stewarty27]

This is all academic anyway an Independent Scotland which I believe will happen sooner than later will be in uncharted territory it may well be Scotland would retain its EU membership with terms and conditions already in place.. some EU officials have already said this may be possible. would we retain any of the UK's exemptions? That would have to be negotiated with the 26 member states of the EU

I suspect if and when this situation arises it will be down to the Scottish people to decide via Referendum. If the result is yes then its yes ..If its No the EU will respect that as they have done in Sweden. The EU Commission have publicly accepted that the decision will be made by Sweden. If the people of Sweden continue to say no, then Sweden will not be joining the euro.

Wonder no more Noah if the price of Scotland being Independent was Scotland and its people being worse off that would be too high a price to pay.

However I firmly believe and based on the information I have garnered over the years Scotland has the people the resources the know how and the right to be Independent. I also believe Scotland would be a more equal and fairer society its for those reasons I fight for Independence.

[Taintedice]

For me if the price of Independence was using the Euro fine. But before Noah jumps in I'd much rather prefer our own currency.if you're happy to be the voice of the SNP on here, then you're going to have to explain exactly what will happen if you hope to convince folk like noah that independence is workable from day one. iScotland can't use the Euro for at least 2-3 years, it can't use sterling, so what exactly will it use? Sturgeon said a new currency supported by a central bank, which is fine. Will this be stable, pegged to sterling, or allowed to float and find its own value. What if it ends up worth only 50p or valued at £1.50, how is that going to work in practice. The SNP need to have answers to these questions or are doomed to failure for a second and final time.

[stewarty27]

if you're happy to be the voice of the SNP on here, then you're going to have to explain exactly what will happen if you hope to convince folk like noah that independence is workable from day one. iScotland can't use the Euro for at least 2-3 years, it can't use sterling, so what exactly will it use? Sturgeon said a new currency supported by a central bank, which is fine. Will this be stable, pegged to sterling, or allowed to float and find its own value. What if it ends up worth only 50p or valued at £1.50, how is that going to work in practice. The SNP need to have answers to these questions or are doomed to failure for a second and final time.

Two things Tainedice.. I'm not the voice of the SNP I'm just someone who supports Independence. And I'm not an Economist. What I do know is there is absolutely no reason an Independent Scotland could not have its own successful currency. I will leave the practicalities and finer points to the experts. What I do agree with is the Yes Campaign must have much more clearer and defined answers (as I said earlier we relied far to much on the opposition being fair and logical) So I'm looking forward a much more dynamic proposals re currency and financial matters. What I'm not going to do is fall into the trap of saying how every penny will be used blah blah. because I don't know, However I do know Scotland is a very wealthy country even without oil&gas we are resource rich.

I'm not in the slightest bit sentimental about currency. It's only a tool. I really don't care what it's called. Or whose picture is on the notes and coins. But I do know an Independent Scotland would hold all the cards to make us a prosperous and successful Nation

[England_First]

[QUOTE=stewarty27;38256576. In this country UK we have been tainted (no pun there ;D) to the Euro the xenophobia of the Tories and the likes of the daily mail/express has made use of the euro toxic more for "land of hope and glory reasons rather than pragmatic one's. .[/QUOTE]

Yet it was the socialist heartlands in the North of England who voted to stick two fingers up to Club Euro, funny that.

[England_First]

are you saying the EU can't change their conditions of entry to suit themselves? Malta joined in 2004 and now has the Euro, I was not aware of that myself until I asked for some Maltese lira :D. Doubt they were given a choice.

You think an experienced pilot would know this sort of stuff, what a biff.

[noahrab]

Wonder no more Noah if the price of Scotland being Independent was Scotland and its people being worse off that would be too high a price to pay.



What about the £14bn hole in income/expenditure that's just been announced?

[Taintedice]

Two things Tainedice.. I'm not the voice of the SNPMy bad. An easy mistake to make, though :D here's hoping the SNP can work through all the issues which torpedoed the last referendum and fat eck is kept well away.

[Bodie80]

What about the £14bn hole in income/expenditure that's just been announced? Don't worry about trivial little things lime that Noah, we have the resources and the people to deal with it. Are you stupid or something ? :)

[stewarty27]

What about the £14bn hole in income/expenditure that's just been announced?

What about it ? Its almost the same as it was last year only difference is a fall of 2Bn to 60 M in oil&gas revenues. That's quite an achievement for a country supposedly totally dependent on Oil revenues. To me that shows Scotland's economy is doing good. Care to comment on the UK deficit 1.64 TRILLION the last time I looked. If an Independent Scotland couldn't do better than that we wouldn't deserve to be Independent.

[stewarty27]

Don't worry about trivial little things lime that Noah, we have the resources and the people to deal with it. Are you stupid or something ? :)

And we could do without your sarcasm Bodie. Show a bit o respect :mad:

[Buc]

What about it ? Its almost the same as it was last year only difference is a fall of 2Bn to 60 M in oil&gas revenues. That's quite an achievement for a country supposedly totally dependent on Oil revenues. To me that shows Scotland's economy is doing good. Care to comment on the UK deficit 1.64 TRILLION the last time I looked. If an Independent Scotland couldn't do better than that we wouldn't deserve to be Independent.


That's the thing unionists are happy to down Scotland but never compare how we are doing compared to our very good friends over the border

[noahrab]

That's the thing unionists are happy to down Scotland but never compare how we are doing compared to our very good friends over the borderThis where you c**** lose respect.Our independence debate has phuck all to do with comparison to the RUK. Can't see anyone 'downing' Scotland.Deal with the facts and stop phuckin deflecting.We have a 14bn hole in our finances, how would an iScotland deal with it?

[JackSnakes]

could you imagine sturgeon on question time or standing up in front o the movers n shakers in oor business community and saying:

"Can't actually see why anyone would give the slightest fk what currency was used, as long as it was recognised and tradeable"

obviously she wouldn't use fk....but you get the drift.

she would get laughed at XD

That is solely down to the fact that, despite anyone with a brain knowing it matters not a whit, you have to come up with something concrete to give to the plebs, because The Sun readers like to know that what they are spending has a name.
In reality, if it takes me three minutes work to earn enough to buy a loaf of medium Warburtons, I couldn't give a flying fk if we used cowrie shells, as long as it still only took three minutes to earn enough of them to buy a loaf of medium Warburtons.
The fact is that what you call it matters not a jot as long as the government behind its issue has enough in its coffers to cover it. My £20 note says that the bank of England promises to pay me £20 if I walk into the bank with it. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing unless the issuing bank has the confidence of the market to sustain its issue.
An independent Scotland would need the confidence of the market. If it has it, we're laughing... if not, well then a wee bit more work would have to be done.

[Buc]

This where you c**** lose respect.Our independence debate has phuck all to do with comparison to the RUK. Can't see anyone 'downing' Scotland.Deal with the facts and stop phuckin deflecting.We have a 14bn hole in our finances, how would an iScotland deal with it?


We are dealing with it..

Please stop posting in abusive ways I've never known anyone like you maybe do some yoga .



http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/

[stewarty27]

This where you c**** lose respect.Our independence debate has phuck all to do with comparison to the RUK. Can't see anyone 'downing' Scotland.Deal with the facts and stop phuckin deflecting.We have a 14bn hole in our finances, how would an iScotland deal with it?

Of course it has everything to do with what's happening in rUK. If you can't see that your even a bigger thicko than I took you for. They manage over 70% of our economy. And talk about us deflecting the UK economy has been mismanaged to the tune of £1.64 BILLION ! and you happily totally ignore that and tell us how useless Scotland is ! You really are a

[Buc]

Of course it has everything to do with what's happening in rUK. If you can't see that your even a bigger thicko than I took you for. They manage over 70% of our economy. And talk about us deflecting the UK economy has been mismanaged to the tune of £1.64 BILLION ! and you happily totally ignore that and tell us how useless Scotland is ! You really are a

Trillion Stewarty :O

[noahrab]

We are dealing with it..

Please stop posting in abusive ways I've never known anyone like you maybe do some yoga .



http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/

"We" are dealing with it, then goes on to quote an SNP propaganda publication XD XD XD

What a pap.

[noahrab]

Of course it has everything to do with what's happening in rUK. If you can't see that your even a bigger thicko than I took you for. They manage over 70% of our economy. And talk about us deflecting the UK economy has been mismanaged to the tune of £1.64 BILLION ! and you happily totally ignore that and tell us how useless Scotland is ! You really are a

So no answers as to how we plug the 14bn gap?

Plenty of whataboutery though XD XD XD

Pap.

[Bodie80]

"We" are dealing with it, then goes on to quote an SNP propaganda publication XD XD XD

What a pap. From 2013

[Bodie80]

We are dealing with it..

Please stop posting in abusive ways I've never known anyone like you maybe do some yoga .



http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/ Okay please explain to me how you are dealing with it, cheers :)

[Bodie80]

Percentage wise we are double that of the U.K. and worse than Greece. Nothing to worry about though, the SNP are dealing with it. How though ?

[Bodie80]

And we could do without your sarcasm Bodie. Show a bit o respect :mad: It is a massive problem though that we need proper answers to. We also don't want to hear everything blamed on big bad Westminster. They need to take some bloody resposibility for all their failures for once.
To show respect the SNP need to gain it and honestly Stewarty I have zero respect for them and what they have done and are doing. I would respect them more if they put aside this ridiculous idea of independence that is getting ripped apart week by week and put all their efforts into running Scotland properly and stop blaming Westminster for everything.

[stewarty27]

So no answers as to how we plug the 14bn gap?

Plenty of whataboutery though XD XD XD

Pap.

Dearie me Paddy there is just no hope for you is there ? Under Westminster rule we are now part of a 1.64 TRillion black hole. And you talk about Whataboutery !! you really are a closed mind clot. Re the 14b and how to plug it

one word

Independence. it really is as simple as that.

Here's one thought. which of course you will just ignore ! but I'll write it anyway.

Norway produces roughly twice as much oil as Scotland; they make £10bn/year in tax at current prices, while Scotland makes £60m or just 11p per barrel, according to GERS. A new report from the Tax Justice Network says the UK is actually giving its oil away for less than nothing.
Something tells me indyScot would find a way to cover its deficit... Don't you think Paddy ?

[stewarty27]

Edit... SCOTLAND'S OIL.

[noahrab]

Dearie me Paddy there is just no hope for you is there ? Under Westminster rule we are now part of a 1.64 TRillion black hole. And you talk about Whataboutery !! you really are a closed mind clot. Re the 14b and how to plug it

one word

Independence. it really is as simple as that.

Here's one thought. which of course you will just ignore ! but I'll write it anyway.

Norway produces roughly twice as much oil as Scotland; they make £10bn/year in tax at current prices, while Scotland makes £60m or just 11p per barrel, according to GERS. A new report from the Tax Justice Network says the UK is actually giving its oil away for less than nothing.
Something tells me indyScot would find a way to cover its deficit... Don't you think Paddy ?

So no answers but more whatabouterry.

Phuckin pap.

[Bodie80]

So no answers but more whatabouterry.

Phuckin pap. They don't have answers Noah, all they have is blame and whatabouterry and we all know who they blame for absolutely everything.
In all honesty they don't have a clue and are prepared to put all our futures at risk for their own pipe dream. Selfish and very worrying

[stewarty27]

They don't have answers Noah, all they have is blame and whatabouterry and we all know who they blame for absolutely everything.
In all honesty they don't have a clue and are prepared to put all our futures at risk for their own pipe dream. Selfish and very worrying

You're worried are you Bodie. Well for me that's very pleasing that an ubar Britnat fanatic like yourself is worried. Could it possibly be you know the Union is totally unsustainable, Your half wit cohort from Dundee is also worried that its him that has no answers, Whatever he thinks about the state of Scotland's finances (and it seems to give him and his ilk a fair amount of glee to point out how totally shyte we are.) the bottom line is For the past 300 years the levers of economic control in Scotland have been firmly in the hands of the Westminster Parliament. that's not whataboutery that's a glaring fact.

[Buc]

So no answers but more whatabouterry.

Phuckin pap.


Not sure what life is like for you in Monifieth Paddy but going by your replies on here I hope they don't reflect on your personality.

:?

[noahrab]

Still no answers from Braveheart and Rob Roy as to how an iScotland would fill the near 15bn hole in our finances.

Proof if any was needed that these types want independence regardless of the cost to Scotland. In reality they don't really care about democracy or the future of our country.

Couple of paps.

[GFLower]

15bn hole in our finances?

Just goes to show the power of the media. You can fool some of the people ALL of the time

[noahrab]

15bn hole in our finances?

Just goes to show the power of the media. You can fool some of the people ALL of the time

Hows yer team gettin on in the diddy leagues XD XD XD

[Buc]

Still no answers from Braveheart and Rob Roy as to how an iScotland would fill the near 15bn hole in our finances.

Proof if any was needed that these types want independence regardless of the cost to Scotland. In reality they don't really care about democracy or the future of our country.

Couple of paps.

Looks like to me you only read what supports your politics and you disregard the rest.
How do we get the 1-6 trillion of dept created by Westminster down.
It's not by renewing trident at a cost of now over 205bn .
Well how do we get that 1-6 trillion of dept down I await your reply .

[noahrab]

Looks like to me you only read what supports your politics and you disregard the rest.
How do we get the 1-6 trillion of dept created by Westminster down.
It's not by renewing trident at a cost of now over 205bn .
Well how do we get that 1-6 trillion of dept down I await your reply .

More deflection. I'll type the next bit slowly to see if you can understand it any easier and to see if you can answer the question.

How would an iScotland deal with near 15bn hole in our finances?

[Buc]

More deflection. I'll type the next bit slowly to see if you can understand it any easier and to see if you can answer the question.

How would an iScotland deal with near 15bn hole in our finances?

Again you avoid my question you are the one who CANT answer any question there's a few on here that has answered your questions but you ignore them or indeed say whatever rude word you feel like using at the time .
It's obvious you are a unionist at ALL costs .and again your hate for the SNP shows through Paddy
Regards John .

[Bodie80]

You're worried are you Bodie. Well for me that's very pleasing that an ubar Britnat fanatic like yourself is worried. Could it possibly be you know the Union is totally unsustainable, Your half wit cohort from Dundee is also worried that its him that has no answers, Whatever he thinks about the state of Scotland's finances (and it seems to give him and his ilk a fair amount of glee to point out how totally shyte we are.) the bottom line is For the past 300 years the levers of economic control in Scotland have been firmly in the hands of the Westminster Parliament. that's not whataboutery that's a glaring fact. You have picked me up wrong Stewarty. What I mean it's worrying that there is people that will put all our futures at risk for their own personnel pipe dream.
I'm not worried at all that Scotland will be independent in my lifetime.

[stewarty27]

More deflection. I'll type the next bit slowly to see if you can understand it any easier and to see if you can answer the question.

How would an iScotland deal with near 15bn hole in our finances?

You really are one dence dunderheid. You cannot compare Scotland under the current constitutional framework. to an Independent Scotland ! There is only a deficit because of the £68 billion charged against Scotland over £28 billion relates to "other uk expenditure". Within that number we get charged £3 billion for defence but only £1.3 billion is spent in Scotland, Do you understand that ?!!! For 32 years in a row Scotland produced a surplus its only since t5he oil slump and the total mismanagement of that sector by the UK Gov has this deficit appeared, We would manage our economy very differently to the UK THATS THE WHOLE PHUCKING POINT OF INDEPENDENCE !! Jezz o how can one man's mind so locked and frozen.

Now read this very slowly Paddy. as its the final answer I'll give to your tedious repetitive childlike haverings.

Scotland is a very wealthy country. We would not need to deal with Deficits. could give you the facts and figures but they would just go over your head,

[JackSnakes]

More deflection. I'll type the next bit slowly to see if you can understand it any easier and to see if you can answer the question.

How would an iScotland deal with near 15bn hole in our finances?

"Deal with"...
Interesting choice of words - "deal with"... "manage" "repay"... all very different, and I know you are a guy who likes to pin posters down on the exact wording they have used so you obviously do not mean "How would an iScotland repay the near 15bn hole in our finances?"...
The fact is that Scotland has debt just as all other countries have debt. It is rarely repaid but is managed.
Semantics aside, (I know they are your thing but they bore the erse off me...), Scotland's debt to GDP ratio has increased to a level higher than that of the rest of the United Kingdom.
Whether someone is for or against independence, there is no denying that reckless spending that cannot be sustained is not a policy that should be pursued.
Now, all this notwithstanding, it is actually rather difficult to pin down a figure here - one rag says it is twice the rUK figure, another three times the rUK figure, and all are reporting this as if it was the end of the world. It is plainly not but it is a major concern, and SHOULD be a major concern to those advocating independence.
I do not think that it is unreasonable to ask the question as to why Scotland's deficit (as a % of GDP) has grown so large, and what steps the Scottish government have taken, and/or are taking to either reduce it or to stop it from increasing.

[Bodie80]

Again you avoid my question you are the one who CANT answer any question there's a few on here that has answered your questions but you ignore them or indeed say whatever rude word you feel like using at the time .
It's obvious you are a unionist at ALL costs .and again your hate for the SNP shows through Paddy
Regards John . Buc , Noah's question has not been answered at all. You are like the party you support, deny, deflect and blame someone else.
Maybe you will answer me. Please explain how an independent Scotland will handle the 15 billion pound hole in our finances ? Thanks in advance :)

And I would say you want independence at any cost. I remember you saying that you would give your life for Scotland to be independent.Now to me that is at any cost. I certainly wouldn't give my life for Scotland to stay in the Union. And your hate for the Union shines through as you have proven time and time again. That's fair enough but you have to accept that there is people like myself that totally disagrees with your political views in every shape and form. People,that love both Scotland and GB.
That's life

[noahrab]

"Deal with"...
Interesting choice of words - "deal with"... "manage" "repay"... all very different, and I know you are a guy who likes to pin posters down on the exact wording they have used so you obviously do not mean "How would an iScotland repay the near 15bn hole in our finances?"...
The fact is that Scotland has debt just as all other countries have debt. It is rarely repaid but is managed.
Semantics aside, (I know they are your thing but they bore the erse off me...), Scotland's debt to GDP ratio has increased to a level higher than that of the rest of the United Kingdom.
Whether someone is for or against independence, there is no denying that reckless spending that cannot be sustained is not a policy that should be pursued.
Now, all this notwithstanding, it is actually rather difficult to pin down a figure here - one rag says it is twice the rUK figure, another three times the rUK figure, and all are reporting this as if it was the end of the world. It is plainly not but it is a major concern, and SHOULD be a major concern to those advocating independence.
I do not think that it is unreasonable to ask the question as to why Scotland's deficit (as a % of GDP) has grown so large, and what steps the Scottish government have taken, and/or are taking to either reduce it or to stop it from increasing.

All I want is to know what an iScotland would/could do to mitigate/repay/deal with/manage, call it what you will, WITHOUT the independence at any cost posters trying to bat it away by blaming someone else for it.

As you say, for those advocating independence, to convince No/undecided voters it should be a major concern.

Saying 'a big boy did it and ran away' won't wash.

[stewarty27]

"Deal with"...
Interesting choice of words - "deal with"... "manage" "repay"... all very different, and I know you are a guy who likes to pin posters down on the exact wording they have used so you obviously do not mean "How would an iScotland repay the near 15bn hole in our finances?"...
The fact is that Scotland has debt just as all other countries have debt. It is rarely repaid but is managed.
Semantics aside, (I know they are your thing but they bore the erse off me...), Scotland's debt to GDP ratio has increased to a level higher than that of the rest of the United Kingdom.
Whether someone is for or against independence, there is no denying that reckless spending that cannot be sustained is not a policy that should be pursued.
Now, all this notwithstanding, it is actually rather difficult to pin down a figure here - one rag says it is twice the rUK figure, another three times the rUK figure, and all are reporting this as if it was the end of the world. It is plainly not but it is a major concern, and SHOULD be a major concern to those advocating independence.
I do not think that it is unreasonable to ask the question as to why Scotland's deficit (as a % of GDP) has grown so large, and what steps the Scottish government have taken, and/or are taking to either reduce it or to stop it from increasing.

That's all very good and well Jack but we don't have the tools powers and means to manage it. This is one of the key planks to Independence.

[JackSnakes]

All I want is to know what an iScotland would/could do to mitigate/repay/deal with/manage, call it what you will, WITHOUT the independence at any cost posters trying to bat it away by blaming someone else for it.

As you say, for those advocating independence, to convince No/undecided voters it should be a major concern.

Saying 'a big boy did it and ran away' won't wash.

It is a concern - of that there should be no question. having a deficit/gdp ration similar to that of the Congo does not scream "prudent financial management".
Now, I am absolutely certain that this will have been discussed at governmental level - there may even be policies or actions that have come out of these discussions - but it would seem that they are not generally available.
I think it is perfectly acceptable, given that there is no credible opposition party in Scotland, for the people to ask the question.

[Hairdrier]

Scotland's biggest problem is it's excessive reliance on the public sector - where will the funds for that come from if we became independent (which we won't)?

[stewarty27]

Maybe you will answer me. Please explain how an independent Scotland will handle the 15 billion pound hole in our finances ?

Bodie please try and understand what is being said here. GERS is compiled by the Westminster Government regardless of who is in charge and the base data comes from the Treasury in London these are facts. Using the data supplied to them the civil servants in Scotland compile the GERS figures using accounting rules laid down by / agreed with the Treasury for all regional accounts, North of England, Wales etc etc – it therefor includes a population share of costs of running the UK of which many would not apply in an independent Scotland. These figures cannot be used to compare an independent Scotland. Much of this particular figures have been accrued in Westminster. I'll give you one example ..Defence Scotland's contribution is £3Bn but it only has £1.3 is spent in Scotland thus we have £1.7Bn added to our running costs. So the point I'm trying to get across is its totally ridiculous to ask how an Independent Scotland would deal with a £14Bn deficit because we would be in a completely different situation. Without being rude do you actually understand that Bodie. ?

[noahrab]

Bodie please try and understand what is being said here. GERS is compiled by the Westminster Government regardless of who is in charge and the base data comes from the Treasury in London these are facts. Using the data supplied to them the civil servants in Scotland compile the GERS figures using accounting rules laid down by / agreed with the Treasury for all regional accounts, North of England, Wales etc etc – it therefor includes a population share of costs of running the UK of which many would not apply in an independent Scotland. These figures cannot be used to compare an independent Scotland. Much of this particular figures have been accrued in Westminster. I'll give you one example ..Defence Scotland's contribution is £3Bn but it only has £1.3 is spent in Scotland thus we have £1.7Bn added to our running costs. So the point I'm trying to get across is its totally ridiculous to ask how an Independent Scotland would deal with a £14Bn deficit because we would be in a completely different situation. Without being rude do you actually understand that Bodie. ?

SNP quite happy to use GERS when it suits though.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2l8zp6q.jpg

[JackSnakes]

It isn't actually Scotland's deficit though is it?
It isn't actually a debt incurred by Scotland to be payed back is it?
It is simply a calculation based on the difference between the amount of money Scotland gives to the UK treasury and the total amount of public spending in Scotland divided by the population. I would imagine that when it was Scotland's money Scotland was spending, they wouldn't be quite so liberal with the sweeties...

Bottom line though - this isn't actually any kind of debt that Scotland has...

[noahrab]

It isn't actually Scotland's deficit though is it?
It isn't actually a debt incurred by Scotland to be payed back is it?
It is simply a calculation based on the difference between the amount of money Scotland gives to the UK treasury and the total amount of public spending in Scotland divided by the population. I would imagine that when it was Scotland's money Scotland was spending, they wouldn't be quite so liberal with the sweeties...

Bottom line though - this isn't actually any kind of debt that Scotland has...

Its a good barometer of where we'd be though.

Of course all government has debts to pay for major infrastructure projects, something the separatists fail to mention when they bang on about uk debt.

Difference being most governments borrow against bonds released to raise money and also from world banks. That's fine if you have a good credit rating with these organisations.

At the referendum the SNP at one stage said they wouldn't accept any of the U.K. debt. Great for our credit rating aye.

Still waiting on Braveheart and Rob Roy telling us why the GERS figures were lauded by the SNP a few years ago when it suited the narrative.....but now is a big bad Westminster conspiracy.

[CraigieBuckler]

I'm beginning to think Far North Britain would be better sticking with Far South Britain, & rely on whatever decisions & handouts we get from there. It's for the best - we are far too wee & stupid to go it alone.

[Red_Zeppelin]

if we were to break free from south Britain's had outs then how would north Britain replace the near 14k jobs that would more than likely be lost in defence and in the ship yards building naval ships etc.

the guy from the GMB was on the radio this very morning talking about this.

if this question is too difficult to answer then you can just ignore it :D

EDIT: link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37252256

[JackSnakes]

I personally believe the economic scare stories are just that. These things find a balance.
Economics and immigration and all that pish aren't really the issue - all things will find a balance - it is the way of things. National sovereignty is really the only issue - you either want it or you don't.
Scotland's geography and lower population density means that certain things cost more than they do in England, which is why Scotland receives more public money than most other 'regions' of the UK.
Scotland as an independent nation would have to find more and better ways to save money and make money.
The Scots are globally renowned as a resourceful and inventive people who have led the world in many areas.
It is not unreasonable to suggest that making enough money to survive and thrive is not outwith the wit of the Scots, but Scotland has social diseases that mean that many are passengers. The shiftless drunks, junkies and lazy bassas who won't get a job will not help. Everyone would need to grab an oar and start rowing.
Scotland has much to offer: IT industries, tourism, food and drink exports - the Scottish brand is recognised around the world as a mark of quality - renewable energy with wind and wave power, currently untapped oil and gas reservoirs... but it would require investment in infrastructure, which would initially mean more borrowing etc. Having just got back from Italy, their inter-city train services are absolutely fabulous. We used trains to get from Rome to Naples and back, Rome to Florence, Florence to Pisa and back, and Florence to Bologna. Comfortable seats in air conditioned trains, running EXACTLY on time, taking people to where they wish to go. How hard is it to do that?
Anyway, fkn rambling again... the fact is that iScotland would have to either spend less or make more, neither of which is an impossibility. It only requires the wit and the will of one of the most resourceful and inventive countries this planet has ever seen.

[stewarty27]

Its a good barometer of where we'd be though.



Jezzo Paddy you make me work hard !!! OK will answer your point why the SNP lauded Gers .... Unionists and Nationalists alike spin the figures for cheap political points. Currently, the unionists are winning: GERS 2015-16, But previously in fact up until 2013 GERs showed a surplus in Scotland's favour. Its a political game both sides play.


It give's us a barometer says you ..Wrong !! You just cannot compare these figures of how an Independent Scotland would fare it just doesn't make sense.

As it stands, Scotland operates according to the economic priorities of a rightwing UK government it didn’t elect. With independence, it could set different priorities under a parliament it did. these GERs include expenditure NOT spent in Scotland like defence. Other costs, debt servicing for instance can be mitigated against assets to be shared. The whole point of Independence is to do things differently

The fact that GERS (good or bad) is based in the activities of a government not chosen by the Scottish people. GERS is simply a reflection of the spectacular failure of a Westminster government running Scotland's economy. The bigger the 'deficit' the bigger the failure of a Westminster government, And as I said Scotland did not vote for.

[noahrab]

Jezzo Paddy you make me work hard !!! OK will answer your point why the SNP lauded Gers .... Unionists and Nationalists alike spin the figures for cheap political points. Currently, the unionists are winning: GERS 2015-16, But previously in fact up until 2013 GERs showed a surplus in Scotland's favour. Its a political game both sides play.


It give's us a barometer says you ..Wrong !! You just cannot compare these figures of how an Independent Scotland would fare it just doesn't make sense.

As it stands, Scotland operates according to the economic priorities of a rightwing UK government it didn’t elect. With independence, it could set different priorities under a parliament it did. these GERs include expenditure NOT spent in Scotland like defence. Other costs, debt servicing for instance can be mitigated against assets to be shared. The whole point of Independence is to do things differently

The fact that GERS (good or bad) is based in the activities of a government not chosen by the Scottish people. GERS is simply a reflection of the spectacular failure of a Westminster government running Scotland's economy. The bigger the 'deficit' the bigger the failure of a Westminster government, And as I said Scotland did not vote for.

You are a phuckin idiot.

Try and answer a question without trying to deflect it away and you might convince people that independence is indeed the way forward.

Always blaming someone else doesn't phuckin wash.

It didn't work last time and it won't work if theirs another one.

Until you c**** come up with real answers and solutions you'll never convince anyone other than the independence at any cost mob.

We don't want to hear about how big bad Westminster, Tories, the MSM etc etc has it in for us, we're tired of hearing it. Give us answers to income, expenditure and borrowing in an iScotland....or are you scared we won't like the truth?

[Mook1]

I personally believe the economic scare stories are just that. These things find a balance.
Economics and immigration and all that pish aren't really the issue - all things will find a balance - it is the way of things. National sovereignty is really the only issue - you either want it or you don't.

I think you'll find economics are a fairly sizable issue with regards Scottish Independence.

[stewarty27]

I'm an idiot !!! XDXDXD, We wouldn't have GERs in an Independent Scotland its a Westminster invention. Which part of that can't you get that pickled walnut around. Do you have OCD or something ? when I do answer the question and I have several times you just keep asking it again, ONE More time Paddy (and you sure are living up to your name) income, expenditure and borrowing in an Scotland. would be done differently ! 70% of Scotland’s nominal operating deficit was due to £4.1 billion of interest payments on debt we didn’t need. If Scotland had been an independent country over the last 32 years we would have a cash surplus of around £50 billion even if we assume we would still have had the same expenditure including payments for banking collapse and nuclear weapons etc. If we had invested some of that £50 billion in a sovereign oil fund we would probably now have a much larger fund than Norway’s and our economy could be 25% larger than it is today. And that is still possible.. Ok there is a deficit at the moment but if we had control of our own economy we have the the resources and means to reduce that deficit !! THAT'S HOW WE WOULD DEAL WITH IT. Now your question is answered for about the 20th time !!!! we would be able to grow our economy which we can't do now. Oil and Gas prices won't always be that low,

I'll ask you a question .. Do you think Scotland is a poor country and unable to stand on its own two feet ?

[noahrab]

I'm an idiot !!! XDXDXD, We wouldn't have GERs in an Independent Scotland its a Westminster invention. Which part of that can't you get that pickled walnut around. Do you have OCD or something ? when I do answer the question and I have several times you just keep asking it again, ONE More time Paddy (and you sure are living up to your name) income, expenditure and borrowing in an Scotland. would be done differently ! 70% of Scotland’s nominal operating deficit was due to £4.1 billion of interest payments on debt we didn’t need. If Scotland had been an independent country over the last 32 years we would have a cash surplus of around £50 billion even if we assume we would still have had the same expenditure including payments for banking collapse and nuclear weapons etc. If we had invested some of that £50 billion in a sovereign oil fund we would probably now have a much larger fund than Norway’s and our economy could be 25% larger than it is today. And that is still possible.. Ok there is a deficit at the moment but if we had control of our own economy we have the the resources and means to reduce that deficit !! THAT'S HOW WE WOULD DEAL WITH IT. Now your question is answered for about the 20th time !!!! we would be able to grow our economy which we can't do now. Oil and Gas prices won't always be that low,

I'll ask you a question .. Do you think Scotland is a poor country and unable to stand on its own two feet ?

More phuckin deflection.

Try and answer without harking back to days of yore and tell me how an iScotland's balance sheet would look going forward.

Its not an episode of Bullseye with 'let's have a look at what you could've won'.

Try explaining our bright new future under independence as you c**** failed miserably during the last referendum and it's ultimately what lost it.

As for your last sentence, I don't believe we are a poor country but I'm not sure if we're rich enough to afford everything we do now, that's where the deficit comes in.

Have another go son.

[noahrab]

I think you'll find economics are a fairly sizable issue with regards Scottish Independence.

It's arguably the main issue.

[stewarty27]

More phuckin deflection.

Try and answer without harking back to days of yore and tell me how an iScotland's balance sheet would look going forward.

Its not an episode of Bullseye with 'let's have a look at what you could've won'.

Try explaining our bright new future under independence as you c**** failed miserably during the last referendum and it's ultimately what lost it.

As for your last sentence, I don't believe we are a poor country but I'm not sure if we're rich enough to afford everything we do now, that's where the deficit comes in.

Have another go son.

The bottom line is if your to thick to understand what I'm saying there is not much more I can do. Its difficult to know if your being deliberately obtuse or you really are just that thick. I'm happy to discuss this issue with others but no longer with you as its a total waste of my time.

[stewarty27]

I think you'll find economics are a fairly sizable issue with regards Scottish Independence.

Absolutely Mook and I'm not underestimating that. but the economic argument cuts both ways. My argument is plain and simple. 1 I think we have the resources the people and the will to make a complete success of our own country. and we would be a fairer more equal and affluent Country.

2 The right wing neoliberal policies of Westminster don't work for Scotland. They don't really work for the rest of rUK as well save a small elite. Scotland is a wealthy nation but being part of the Westminster system has stopped us from becoming a wealthy society. The fact that Scotland’s wealth does not stay in Scotland has led to a lack of investment in business and infrastructure, created worries about pensions, more poverty, lower life expectancy. And before that Dundee half wit jumps in this is not blaming Westminster this is the reality.

3 Is it actually possible to make a bigger mess of things than the UK has ? Billions upon Billions of Scotland's resources being squandered on tax cuts for the rich and illegal wars. and servicing a debt that has been run up by a greedy selfish few.

4 Its normal for sovereign Nations to be Independent.

[JackSnakes]

I think you'll find economics are a fairly sizable issue with regards Scottish Independence.

To who?
It shouldn't be.
It wasn't for Brexit because, despite knowing full well that they were shooting themselves in the pocket, they voted for it anyway because they wanted their country back.
Like indyref, Brexit was not really about the economy or immigration - these are just issues used to muddy the waters. Scare stories to make people think twice about their original position.
To be honest, if you don't want it badly enough to go for it despite the sure knowledge that you will be hit hard in the short term, then you really shouldn't even bother thinking about it.
Independence is a bold step for a country that has not had it for 300 years.
It is obviously too bold a step for many.

[JackSnakes]

It's arguably the main issue.

Why?
What does economics have to do with whether or not a country should be independent?
Independence is not about money, it is about sovereignty.
To those for whom it is a solely financial issue, I would say they should not vote for indeopendence because they do not deserve independence.

[noahrab]

The bottom line is if your to thick to understand what I'm saying there is not much more I can do. Its difficult to know if your being deliberately obtuse or you really are just that thick. I'm happy to discuss this issue with others but no longer with you as its a total waste of my time.

You c**** always run away when you can't answer.

You've answered phuck all without referencing another country or what's happened the past 30yrs.

You c**** lack the ability to look forward and convince the no and floating voters how our finances in an iScotland will stack up. I'm willing to be convinced.

I really can't see why you keep avoiding the issue.

Have another go without greetin or running away like a wee lassie.

[noahrab]

Why?
What does economics have to do with whether or not a country should be independent?
Independence is not about money, it is about sovereignty.
To those for whom it is a solely financial issue, I would say they should not vote for indeopendence because they do not deserve independence.


If anyone decided to go and work for themselves instead of working for a company they would look at the financial implications.

Being yer own man is no good if yer skint.

[noahrab]

Absolutely Mook and I'm not underestimating that. but the economic argument cuts both ways. My argument is plain and simple. 1 I think we have the resources the people and the will to make a complete success of our own country. and we would be a fairer more equal and affluent Country.

2 The right wing neoliberal policies of Westminster don't work for Scotland. They don't really work for the rest of rUK as well save a small elite. Scotland is a wealthy nation but being part of the Westminster system has stopped us from becoming a wealthy society. The fact that Scotland’s wealth does not stay in Scotland has led to a lack of investment in business and infrastructure, created worries about pensions, more poverty, lower life expectancy. And before that Dundee half wit jumps in this is not blaming Westminster this is the reality.

3 Is it actually possible to make a bigger mess of things than the UK has ? Billions upon Billions of Scotland's resources being squandered on tax cuts for the rich and illegal wars. and servicing a debt that has been run up by a greedy selfish few.

4 Its normal for sovereign Nations to be Independent.

Can you post a link to this 'illegal war'.

Not opinion, but fact based.

Cheers.

[JackSnakes]

Can you post a link to this 'illegal war'.

Not opinion, but fact based.

Cheers.



The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.
Mr Annan said that the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. In an interview with the BBC World Service broadcast last night, he was asked outright if the war was illegal. He replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added unequivocally: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and from the charter point of view it was illegal."




https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq

[Mook1]

To who?
It shouldn't be.
It wasn't for Brexit because, despite knowing full well that they were shooting themselves in the pocket, they voted for it anyway because they wanted their country back.
Like indyref, Brexit was not really about the economy or immigration - these are just issues used to muddy the waters. Scare stories to make people think twice about their original position.
To be honest, if you don't want it badly enough to go for it despite the sure knowledge that you will be hit hard in the short term, then you really shouldn't even bother thinking about it.
Independence is a bold step for a country that has not had it for 300 years.
It is obviously too bold a step for many.

To people who live & work in Scotland.

[noahrab]

The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.
Mr Annan said that the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. In an interview with the BBC World Service broadcast last night, he was asked outright if the war was illegal. He replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added unequivocally: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and from the charter point of view it was illegal."




https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq

Thats an opinion.

If it was declared illegal who has been brought to justice over it? Not debating the morality of it just who has been charged over it.

[JackSnakes]

If anyone decided to go and work for themselves instead of working for a company they would look at the financial implications.

Being yer own man is no good if yer skint.

I accept that - do you not think that people should be prepared to take a short term down-turn to prosper in the long run?

Is it an issue that the 'YES' campaign were not prepared to admit that there would be economic fallout from a 'YES' vote?

Would it have changed your mind, or made it easier to accept, if they had been honest and said that the economy would fall off a cliff the morning after a 'YES' vote, but that good governance and financial management would restore confidence and that it would pick up?

UK and EU are really only loosely joined, and that separation is likely to take five years.
England and Scotland are so thoroughly intermixed that a final separation would take at least that plus several more I would imagine.
Given that there can really be no cast-iron guarantees, since world economics is not driven by reality but by opinions, what would need to happen to convince you that independence is a good idea?

There is absolutely no question that, whichever way you spin it, it is a bad idea financially in the immediate short term. Anyone who says otherwise is a bare-faced liar. Scotland may well be resource-rich - I happen to believe it is - but that doesn't mean that the morning after independence a huge waterfall of gold coins will start tumbling down into Holyrood. It would be a long difficult road. Whether it will be worth it in the end is anyone's guess. For some, like me, the prize would only ever be self-governance. The rest is add-ons.
Currency is a sticky one - I would imagine that, since stability is what is required, it would be wise to have a unique currency in the end but, immediately following a 'YES' vote, a significant period of using Sterling would be good whilst preparing the new currency and easing market fears. When confidence has returned, the new currency could be rolled out.
As has been demonstrated by the Brexit thing, Independence will be a shock. A very painful shock, but I believe it would get better.

[JackSnakes]

Thats an opinion.

If it was declared illegal who has been brought to justice over it? Not debating the morality of it just who has been charged over it.

It is the opinion of the head of the organisation that decides whether such things are legal or not.
American influence in such things will be enough to ensure that no-one will be brought to justice over it, just like current Israeli war-crimes that also do not conform to UN rules

[JackSnakes]

To people who live & work in Scotland.
Your wee one liners aren't contributing anything here by the way.
Say something sensible or fk off.

[noahrab]

I accept that - do you not think that people should be prepared to take a short term down-turn to prosper in the long run?

Is it an issue that the 'YES' campaign were not prepared to admit that there would be economic fallout from a 'YES' vote?

Would it have changed your mind, or made it easier to accept, if they had been honest and said that the economy would fall off a cliff the morning after a 'YES' vote, but that good governance and financial management would restore confidence and that it would pick up?

UK and EU are really only loosely joined, and that separation is likely to take five years.
England and Scotland are so thoroughly intermixed that a final separation would take at least that plus several more I would imagine.
Given that there can really be no cast-iron guarantees, since world economics is not driven by reality but by opinions, what would need to happen to convince you that independence is a good idea?

There is absolutely no question that, whichever way you spin it, it is a bad idea financially in the immediate short term. Anyone who says otherwise is a bare-faced liar. Scotland may well be resource-rich - I happen to believe it is - but that doesn't mean that the morning after independence a huge waterfall of gold coins will start tumbling down into Holyrood. It would be a long difficult road. Whether it will be worth it in the end is anyone's guess. For some, like me, the prize would only ever be self-governance. The rest is add-ons.
Currency is a sticky one - I would imagine that, since stability is what is required, it would be wise to have a unique currency in the end but, immediately following a 'YES' vote, a significant period of using Sterling would be good whilst preparing the new currency and easing market fears. When confidence has returned, the new currency could be rolled out.
As has been demonstrated by the Brexit thing, Independence will be a shock. A very painful shock, but I believe it would get better.

I don't expect it to be a bed of roses nor a smooth transition without pain but those desperate for independence shy away when asked what the risks and pain would be.

They would have us believe it will be the land of milk and honey.

All I want is honesty from them and an indication of income/expenditure and borrowing.

Shouting 'freedom' is a hollow victory if that's all we're left with.

[noahrab]

It is the opinion of the head of the organisation that decides whether such things are legal or not.
American influence in such things will be enough to ensure that no-one will be brought to justice over it, just like current Israeli war-crimes that also do not conform to UN rules

Still only an opinion though.

[Mook1]

Your wee one liners aren't contributing anything here by the way.
Say something sensible or fk off.

You're saying that economics aren't important, I'm not sure what to say to that other than to point out that they're hugely important to the people who live & work in Scotland.

Economics are the reason I didn't vote Yes in 2014, I don't want my Son to grow up in a country beset with unemployment & poverty. If the SNP got their currency & economics stuff sorted out, they might well pysh a second referendum.

[JackSnakes]

Still only an opinion though.

It is the most concrete statement of illegality you are ever likely to get from the head of the organisation that decides whether something is illegal.
Unfortunately it simply demonstrates that the big players can, literally, get away with murder.
You are unlikely to see any prosecutions from Russia's annexation of Crimea either...

[JackSnakes]

You're saying that economics aren't important, I'm not sure what to say to that other than to point out that they're hugely important to the people who live & work in Scotland.

Economics are the reason I didn't vote Yes in 2014, I don't want my Son to grow up in a country beset with unemployment & poverty. If the SNP got their currency & economics stuff sorted out, they might well pysh a second referendum.

The reason I say that economics are not important is for a couple of issues:
1) The economy is not a reason why anyone would ever vote for independence
2) No first-world resource-rich country's economy has ever gotten so bad after independence that they are currently 'beset with unemployment and poverty'. It is simply not a plausible scenario.
There is absolutely no question that the economy would take a severe and swift turn for the worse in the immediate aftermath of independence but that is simply a matter of confidence and not a matter of hard currency suddenly not being there.
The lessons of Brexit seem not to have any attention paid to them by either side up there.
One camp thinks everything will be wonderful, the other thinks it will all go to hell in a hand-basket.
Neither is anywhere near the truth but it would be a ridiculous stance to take to believe that an independent Scotland would be a long-term bad idea.
The actuality is that it is unlikely to be worse than what you currently have, with a chance of some movement either side of that

[noahrab]

The reason I say that economics are not important is for a couple of issues:
1) The economy is not a reason why anyone would ever vote for independence
2) No first-world resource-rich country's economy has ever gotten so bad after independence that they are currently 'beset with unemployment and poverty'. It is simply not a plausible scenario.
There is absolutely no question that the economy would take a severe and swift turn for the worse in the immediate aftermath of independence but that is simply a matter of confidence and not a matter of hard currency suddenly not being there.
The lessons of Brexit seem not to have any attention paid to them by either side up there.
One camp thinks everything will be wonderful, the other thinks it will all go to hell in a hand-basket.
Neither is anywhere near the truth but it would be a ridiculous stance to take to believe that an independent Scotland would be a long-term bad idea.
The actuality is that it is unlikely to be worse than what you currently have, with a chance of some movement either side of that

Point 1 is way off the mark.

[JackSnakes]

Point 1 is way off the mark.

I would like you to find me a 'YES' voter whose desire for independence is purely financial

[noahrab]

I would like you to find me a 'YES' voter whose desire for independence is purely financial

So you're saying they are all Braveheart Brigadoon types?

Those who voted No Thanks did so on the economy. To convert me/them to YES they need to answer the questions they couldn't/wouldn't answer last time and this time around are trying to bat away as 'it'll be ok'.

[JackSnakes]

So you're saying they are all Braveheart Brigadoon types?

Those who voted No Thanks did so on the economy. To convert me/them to YES they need to answer the questions they couldn't/wouldn't answer last time and this time around are trying to bat away as 'it'll be ok'.

I am sure some believed the scare stories about the economy... Some would have voted no even if Indy would make them millionaires... For me a lack of an admission that the immediate aftermath was going to be a bombsite would have made me nervous, but neither side provided anything remotely concrete. I wouldn't, and didn't, believe a word that came out of the better together camp because they were partisan and their claims were outrageous, but given that everything was conjecture, could not be solidly refuted. Independent forecasters said pretty much what sensible people knew already... Off a cliff, level out, rise again. It does not matter who is in charge, or if a diamond mine was discovered under Holyrood... The economic graph after indelendence would always be the same shape. If you do nit wish to go through that then you vote No.

[Taintedice]

Scotland's situation at the moment is one that isn't too bad at all, so people won't disregard that, disregard their standards of living. So economics are important. To convince people they'd be no worse off in an iScotland is the main role of the SNP, I feel, they shouldn't pretend it'll be so much better, as it won't. For the past 50 years, the tories have put Scots on the dole, Labour have created non-jobs in a bloated public sector. Teresa May is begging Apple to leave Ireland and come to the 'UK'. Does anyone think that doesn't mean England? Westminster will never create jobs in Scotland over England, can the Scottish government offer these companies what they want e.g. favourable tax status. Should they? I feel the barriers facing the independence movement in Scotland will never be lifted, unless the SNP can show Scotland can create jobs, get folk off the dole, out of the public sector. It's a leap of faith that not many No voters will take.

[JackSnakes]

Scotland's situation at the moment is one that isn't too bad at all, so people won't disregard that, disregard their standards of living. So economics are important. To convince people they'd be no worse off in an iScotland is the main role of the SNP, I feel, they shouldn't pretend it'll be so much better, as it won't. For the past 50 years, the tories have put Scots on the dole, Labour have created non-jobs in a bloated public sector. Teresa May is begging Apple to leave Ireland and come to the 'UK'. Does anyone think that doesn't mean England? Westminster will never create jobs in Scotland over England, can the Scottish government offer these companies what they want e.g. favourable tax status. Should they? I feel the barriers facing the independence movement in Scotland will never be lifted, unless the SNP can show Scotland can create jobs, get folk off the dole, out of the public sector. It's a leap of faith that not many No voters will take.
Therein lies the problem. If you need to be convinced, then you need someone pretty forceful and charismatic to convince you. There are barriers and yes, the SNP should be doing their utmost to give people the figures they need to make an informed decision.

[noahrab]

I am sure some believed the scare stories about the economy... Some would have voted no even if Indy would make them millionaires... For me a lack of an admission that the immediate aftermath was going to be a bombsite would have made me nervous, but neither side provided anything remotely concrete. I wouldn't, and didn't, believe a word that came out of the better together camp because they were partisan and their claims were outrageous, but given that everything was conjecture, could not be solidly refuted. Independent forecasters said pretty much what sensible people knew already... Off a cliff, level out, rise again. It does not matter who is in charge, or if a diamond mine was discovered under Holyrood... The economic graph after indelendence would always be the same shape. If you do nit wish to go through that then you vote No.

Nothing to do with scare stories and everything to do with Salmond telling us everyone else was wrong and he was right and that if we voted for independence the RUK parties that said no to a currency union would crumble.

Both sides in the debate were partisan.

You need to credit the No voters with a bit more intelligence than the independence at any cost voters, of which their was plenty, if you want to change their minds.

I would have respect for YES voters like Braveheart and Brigadoon and the like if they said ' I hate the basturd English and that's why I'm voting for independence.

Most of the YES voters are in the same bracket.

[JackSnakes]

Nothing to do with scare stories and everything to do with Salmond telling us everyone else was wrong and he was right and that if we voted for independence the RUK parties that said no to a currency union would crumble.

Both sides in the debate were partisan.

You need to credit the No voters with a bit more intelligence than the independence at any cost voters, of which their was plenty, if you want to change their minds.

I would have respect for YES voters like Braveheart and Brigadoon and the like if they said ' I hate the basturd English and that's why I'm voting for independence.

Most of the YES voters are in the same bracket.

I would vote for independence in a heartbeat - but I have nothing against the English, having lived among them for 30 years. I simply believe that a country should be self-governing.
I also detest the circumstances in which the Union was brought about, believing it to be unjust and unfair.
The current situation is also unjust and unfair. "Scotland's voice" that Ms Sturgeon is forever demanding to be heard is, in actual fact, a squeak that has absolutely no more right to be heard than any other region of the UK as things stand.
Scotland have 10% of whatever in the UK and everyone else has the other 90%. It is not unfair or unjust through any malice on the part of Westminster or the rest of the UK - it just so happens that when one side has 90% of the vote and the other side has 10%, anything Scotland wants, Scotland will be told to do one. Why should such a tiny percentage tell the rest of the UK how they should run their affairs?
Scotland is a small region of the UK with absolutely no voice and no choice except to suck up what England gives it.
If the Scots don't like this arrangement, then they should vote to leave.
If they are happy being some dog kicked around at its master's whim, then they should vote to remain.
There are undoubtedly benefits at being part of a larger organisation. Why pay to administer two health services, or two armies, or two driver licensing authorities et al when you can administer one?
When two companies merge, jobs are always lost - so a larger company is more streamlined than two smaller ones.
If the same two companies were to split, then more jobs would have to be created.
I shouldn't imagine Westminster would be keen on a break-up since it would still have to administer everything it currently does, but would have less income with which to do so. It would also cost Scotland. An independent Scotland would have no choice but to create jobs where none currently exist, but these would be public sector jobs, that contribute nothing financially and simply leech money off the taxpayer, like NHS managers and DVLA call centre wallahs...

I have never said No voters were idiots. Some of them undoubtedly were, but probably not enough to make the difference (I hope...) I am sure many had their country and their family's best interests at heart
Wanting independence at any cost may seem something unworthy of your respect, but many thousands of people have died to achieve independence for their country, so I would not take it as lightly as you appear to do.

Scotland has always been more about positive nationalism (We're great because of the great things we've done) rather than the more English negative nationalism (we're great because you're shlt).
There has always been a wee bit of friction with the English, although those who voted Yes because they blame the English for all their ills are just as thick as the ones who voted No because of the football team they support...

For me and for many it is just down to one issue - do you want Scotland to be an independent country?
If the answer is yes, then you should vote yes. If not, you vote no.

[54FairAndSquare]

I would like you to find me a 'YES' voter whose desire for independence is purely financial

Not likely. The main reason for ppl to want independence is their hatred of all things English

[JackSnakes]

Not likely. The main reason for ppl to want independence is their hatred of all things English

No it isn't.

[CraigieBuckler]

Not likely. The main reason for ppl to want independence is their hatred of all things English

It's not my reason.... I work with two of the incoming f*ckers................

[54FairAndSquare]

At least Craigie is honest. Unlike most of them.

[Bodie80]

Bodie please try and understand what is being said here. GERS is compiled by the Westminster Government regardless of who is in charge and the base data comes from the Treasury in London these are facts. Using the data supplied to them the civil servants in Scotland compile the GERS figures using accounting rules laid down by / agreed with the Treasury for all regional accounts, North of England, Wales etc etc – it therefor includes a population share of costs of running the UK of which many would not apply in an independent Scotland. These figures cannot be used to compare an independent Scotland. Much of this particular figures have been accrued in Westminster. I'll give you one example ..Defence Scotland's contribution is £3Bn but it only has £1.3 is spent in Scotland thus we have £1.7Bn added to our running costs. So the point I'm trying to get across is its totally ridiculous to ask how an Independent Scotland would deal with a £14Bn deficit because we would be in a completely different situation. Without being rude do you actually understand that Bodie. ? Spin it how you want Stewarty, you lot are good at that. Scotland would have a massive deficit and we would be screwed.
And how phucking rude and condescending, I thought you were better than that :mad:

[JackSnakes]

Spin it how you want Stewarty, you lot are good at that. Scotland would have a massive deficit and we would be screwed.
And how phucking rude and condescending, I thought you were better than that :mad:

Scotland's deficit would be no bigger than the rest of the UK's and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever except blind bias to believe that Scotland would be 'screwed'

[Bodie80]

Scotland's deficit would be no bigger than the rest of the UK's and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever except blind bias to believe that Scotland would be 'screwed' There is no reason or evidence to believe we would not be screwed.
And it's definitely not blind biased Jack

[54FairAndSquare]

Spin it how you want Stewarty, you lot are good at that. Scotland would have a massive deficit and we would be screwed.
And how phucking rude and condescending, I thought you were better than that :mad:

IQ27 is one of Nanny Nikki's little scotomatons who sit at keyboards all day spouting pre-fabricated propaganda from the Ministry of Truth. The fact he actually believes it is a bonus for them

[JackSnakes]

There is no reason or evidence to believe we would not be screwed.
And it's definitely not blind biased Jack

Eh? Does the sky fall down every time you go out?
This is just so ridiculously unreasonable it is impossible to argue against.
Are you seriously trying to say, on a public message board, that Scotland and the Scots have neither the will nor the wit to manage their affairs?
That a nation of five million people are utterly incapable of managing their affairs?
Is every household in Scotland struggling under a mountain of debt because every member of the population is too stupid to even maintain a reasonable household budget?
This is, by far, the most insulting thing I have ever seen on this topic. It even beats the disgusting "Hamish" rubbish the huns come out with.
It is desperately sad that you have such a low opinion of your countrymen.
Yet you want to move down here - this country IS screwed because the Westminster government are utterly incapable of managing their budget and the deficit is spiralling out of control and rising every second.
It makes it even more insulting that you think Scotland cannot do a better job than the incompetent idiots in Westminster right now

[psych]

Not likely. The main reason for ppl to want independence is their hatred of all things English

an utter pile of b0ll0cks

[JackSnakes]

an utter pile of b0ll0cks

It is a glimpse into the mindset of these people though.
They judge others by their own standards, which are obviously lower than a snake's baws...
Hatred is all they have

[Bodie80]

Eh? Does the sky fall down every time you go out?
This is just so ridiculously unreasonable it is impossible to argue against.
Are you seriously trying to say, on a public message board, that Scotland and the Scots have neither the will nor the wit to manage their affairs?
That a nation of five million people are utterly incapable of managing their affairs?
Is every household in Scotland struggling under a mountain of debt because every member of the population is too stupid to even maintain a reasonable household budget?
This is, by far, the most insulting thing I have ever seen on this topic. It even beats the disgusting "Hamish" rubbish the huns come out with.
It is desperately sad that you have such a low opinion of your countrymen.
Yet you want to move down here - this country IS screwed because the Westminster government are utterly incapable of managing their budget and the deficit is spiralling out of control and rising every second.
It makes it even more insulting that you think Scotland cannot do a better job than the incompetent idiots in Westminster right now You are taking what you think I mean out of my post which is insulting to me. I don't have a low opinion of my countrymen. Scotland would be running at a massive deficit, bigger than any other country in Europe. So yes I think we would be skint.
We do not have enough people or resources to maintain the standard of living we have just now. It's nothing to do with the will of the Scotttish people who by the way voted to stay in the Union. Please do not ever put words in my mouth, thanks :)

[spameater1]

Not likely. The main reason for ppl to want independence is their hatred of all things English

1288

[Bodie80]

It is a glimpse into the mindset of these people though.
They judge others by their own standards, which are obviously lower than a snake's baws...
Hatred is all they have The only hatred I have is for the SNP and what it is doing to the people in my country. It's disgusting

[JackSnakes]

You are taking what you think I mean out of my post which is insulting to me. I don't have a low opinion of my countrymen. Scotland would be running at a massive deficit, bigger than any other country in Europe. So yes I think we would be skint.
We do not have enough people or resources to maintain the standard of living we have just now. It's nothing to do with the will of the Scotttish people who by the way voted to stay in the Union. Please do not ever put words in my mouth, thanks :)

Who says Scotland would be running at a massive debt? It isn't me... It isn't even the newspapers reporting the public spending gap in March - it is you.
You certainly aren't saying it because you think Scotland is capable of running its own affairs... THAT is an absolute certainty.
Scotland has plenty of people and resources. Out of 28 current member states of the EU, Scotland is better off than 16 of them.
Scotland's employment rate is a record high, and unemployment is currently the same as the UK in total,and better than 24 out of 28 member states of the EU... and better than the USA.

Just how good do you think it has to get before you will consider it to be anything above disastrous???

[JackSnakes]

The only hatred I have is for the SNP and what it is doing to the people in my country. It's disgusting

It is the unionists who have caused the hatred.

[54FairAndSquare]

It is a glimpse into the mindset of these people though.
They judge others by their own standards, which are obviously lower than a snake's baws...
Hatred is all they have

Too true, snakes' baws, hatred is all they have


But none for England.

http://i66.tinypic.com/55krc9.jpg

[Taintedice]

Wish the hun vermin lady walloper would aim some of her angst at the nation which humiliated and liquidated them. All Scotland did was refuse to allow their new club funded by criminal filth a berth in the top league. Scotland did not liquidate the hun filth, that was England. And yet they still sing Rule Brittania XD

[Taintedice]

The only hatred I have is for the SNP and what it is doing to the people in my country. It's disgustingbelter XD

[Buc]

Buc , Noah's question has not been answered at all. You are like the party you support, deny, deflect and blame someone else.
Maybe you will answer me. Please explain how an independent Scotland will handle the 15 billion pound hole in our finances ? Thanks in advance :)

And I would say you want independence at any cost. I remember you saying that you would give your life for Scotland to be independent.Now to me that is at any cost. I certainly wouldn't give my life for Scotland to stay in the Union. And your hate for the Union shines through as you have proven time and time again. That's fair enough but you have to accept that there is people like myself that totally disagrees with your political views in every shape and form. People,that love both Scotland and GB.
That's life

Bodie you are the as huge a unionist with nearly the same dislike!e as noarab so NOTHING we ever will say will change your thoughts

But will say this you are at least a gentleman of this board unlike your unionist friend Paddy .

You are better posting over the road as I feel it will end up just a political board full of stalemate and even fewer posters on here they are leaving because of the likes of your hate filled friend ..

Just look at his abusive rude replies even though you may agree with his Politics I'm sorry to say this but he comes across as not all there .

[stewarty27]

Bodie's reasons for rejecting Independence.

We're are a pathetic bunch of basket cases barely capable of getting out of bed in the morning.

But much more than that.. Those who aspire to make this a better country for all are

DISGUSTING !!

[stewarty27]

Not likely. The main reason for ppl to want independence is their hatred of all things English

And this from a cretin who post nothing but hate filled sectarian divisive drivel on here. Up to 9-10 times a day !!

You couldna mak it up !

[JackSnakes]

Too true, snakes' baws, hatred is all they have


But none for England.

http://i66.tinypic.com/55krc9.jpg

A few erseholes is hardly representative. I could find more in one minute on FF that would confirm, by your idiot logic, that every rangers supporter is a moronic paranoid Catholic-hating Celtic-obsessed bigot...

[stewarty27]

Aye we hate oor English comrades.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/17/surge-english-snp-members-scottish-nationalist-party

[stewarty27]

A few erseholes is hardly representative. I could find more in one minute on FF that would confirm, by your idiot logic, that every rangers supporter is a moronic paranoid Catholic-hating Celtic-obsessed bigot...

Of course I do concede this sort of stuff is unacceptable but BOTH sides in the Indy debate are guilty of it. But zealots like IQ only ever see one side of it. And much more importantly the Media only reports one side of it. See if you can guess which side is the nasties !

[Rab_The_Ger]

Honestly this pish is becoming tiresome and boring. On the TT board there's a thread where all the political debate can be discussed, keep it in there lads.

We all have our own political views and trust me it creates more arguments than our own teams football results do.

Sf.net. has lost some good posters because of this, so use the TT board and maybe the forum will get back to being the busiest on the network as it once was.

[Buc]

Honestly this pish is becoming tiresome and boring. On the TT board there's a thread where all the political debate can be discussed, keep it in there lads.

We all have our own political views and trust me it creates more arguments than our own teams football results do.

Sf.net. has lost some good posters because of this, so use the TT board and maybe the forum will get back to being the busiest on the network as it once was.

Well said Rab .

[stewarty27]

Of course I do concede this sort of stuff is unacceptable but BOTH sides in the Indy debate are guilty of it. But zealots like IQ only ever see one side of it. And much more importantly the Media only reports one side of it. See if you can guess which side is the nasties !

Wouldn't post anything from the fascist Daily Express as a rule. But just to make the point about @rshole on both side's.
Check out the most vile and hateful comments on this article.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/707037/Nicola-Sturgeon-Miscarriage-Scotland-SNP-EU-Independence-Britain-Baby-Career-Children

[Rab_The_Ger]

Stewarty you are quoting yourself again on here, as was stated the TT forum has a Thread allocated for this debate.

[stewarty27]

Honestly this pish is becoming tiresome and boring. On the TT board there's a thread where all the political debate can be discussed, keep it in there lads.

We all have our own political views and trust me it creates more arguments than our own teams football results do.

Sf.net. has lost some good posters because of this, so use the TT board and maybe the forum will get back to being the busiest on the network as it once was.

You make a fair point Wab and I'm as guilty as the next one. But by far the worst offender is your fellow bear IQ/Walloper sometimes up to 6 threads a day ! I will if he will ;D:O

[noahrab]

Well said Rab .

They are welcome to ignore threads they don't like.

Its just a pity we've not lost certain posters for good, particularly ones that are so far up themselves it must be painful for them.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Keep it in TT.

[stewarty27]

Stewarty you are quoting yourself again on here, as was stated the TT forum has a Thread allocated for this debate.

OK Rab any future political posts I make will be on the TT page, But I reserve the right to mythbust IQ. Can't say fairer than that.

[Buc]

They are welcome to ignore threads they don't like.

Its just a pity we've not lost certain posters for good, particularly ones that are so far up themselves it must be painful for them.

Absolutely..:)

[Rab_The_Ger]

They are welcome to ignore threads they don't like.

Its just a pity we've not lost certain posters for good, particularly ones that are so far up themselves it must be painful for them.

Buc, will post his political views on the TT forum as advised, as was said before let's keep this to football views, banter etc.

Good season ahead for football, not politics.

[ZombieSkelper]

Can't believe it but I actually agree with mad wab.

[noahrab]

Buc, will post his political views on the TT forum as advised, as was said before let's keep this to football views, banter etc.

Good season ahead for football, not politics.

I'll post wherever the phuck I want.

[Rab_The_Ger]

I'll post wherever the phuck I want.

That's all well and good Paddy, crack on.

Loose the anger or it will lose you.

Malta v Scotland : 0:2.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Noah, here's something for you. Best to keep the trap shut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMLCrzy9TEs

[ZombieSkelper]

Can we put all mad wab's youtube pish in the tft as well? :?

[Rab_The_Ger]

Can we put all mad wab's youtube pish in the tft as well? :?

Yes.

B)

[Buc]

I'll post wherever the phuck I want.

Yup you certainly do that and dare I say it little of interest Paddy.

:)

[noahrab]

That's all well and good Paddy, crack on.

Loose the anger or it will lose you.

Malta v Scotland : 0:2.

'Loose' the anger???

Whatever you meant I don't have any anger.

[noahrab]

Can we put all mad wab's youtube pish in the tft as well? :?

Does anyc*** actually click on them?

[noahrab]

Yup you certainly do that and dare I say it little of interest Paddy.

:)

In English please.

[Rab_The_Ger]

In English please.

Away to your bed Noah.

[noahrab]

Away to your bed Noah.

Go phuck yersel.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Does anyc*** actually click on them?

Aye you Paddy, you gather the tim back up, and i'll count your light bulbs.

Deal.

[ZombieSkelper]

Does anyc*** actually click on them?

I don't think anybody on here clicks on hun links apart from other huns.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Go phuck yersel.


What a sad auld tadger you are. nae Dundee but Angus ken.

Watch what you post now. You've upset a few auld posters. B)

[noahrab]

Aye you Paddy, you gather the tim back up, and i'll count your light bulbs.

Deal.

Eh?

[noahrab]

I don't think anybody on here clicks on hun links apart from other huns.

You never know what you could catch.

[noahrab]

What a sad auld tadger you are. nae Dundee but Angus ken.

Watch what you post now. You've upset a few auld posters. B)

Apart fae the fact anyone who gets upset on an anonymous messageboard must be far too sensitive to be posting on it, how much do you think I care who I upset?

[Bodie80]

Bodie's reasons for rejecting Independence.

We're are a pathetic bunch of basket cases barely capable of getting out of bed in the morning.

But much more than that.. Those who aspire to make this a better country for all are

DISGUSTING !! What bullsh1t. Why are you turning into such an idiot towards me ? I thought you were better than that.

What is disgusting is the SNP rejecting the will of us and are wanting to put us all through another divisive referendum when they should be putting all their efforts into running the country, not ruining it.

Look at this board, all the hatred from both sides. Multiply that many times over and that is what is happening all over Scotland.

[Bodie80]

It is the unionists who have caused the hatred. You are joking aren't you ? From my experience the hated is from the nationalists. I've seen it and experienced it.
I'm not saying there is none from the Unionists but to say it's them that's caused it is wrong.

[Buc]

In English please.

Says you that behaves like a caveman on here hating anyone who doesn't agree with.

Not sure what kind of life you have in Monifieth but going by your posting on here not sure how good it would be.
:)

[JackSnakes]

You are joking aren't you ? From my experience the hated is from the nationalists. I've seen it and experienced it.
I'm not saying there is none from the Unionists but to say it's them that's caused it is wrong.

A little... :D but I do not share your opinions on the origins or the current sources of the division, so we'll leave it there.

[Bodie80]

A little... :D but I do not share your opinions on the origins or the current sources of the division, so we'll leave it there. But there .........no worries Jack we will agree to disagree :D

[Bodie80]

Bodie you are the as huge a unionist with nearly the same dislike!e as noarab so NOTHING we ever will say will change your thoughts

But will say this you are at least a gentleman of this board unlike your unionist friend Paddy .

You are better posting over the road as I feel it will end up just a political board full of stalemate and even fewer posters on here they are leaving because of the likes of your hate filled friend ..

Just look at his abusive rude replies even though you may agree with his Politics I'm sorry to say this but he comes across as not all there . Thank you for calling me a gentleman :)
You are right nothing I see or hear will change my mind. Infact as time goes on my mind is getting even stronger towards the unionist side.
Noah is a good lad and an interesting poster. He is not hate filled Buc, he is passionate and doesn't take fools gladly.

[stewarty27]

What bullsh1t. Why are you turning into such an idiot towards me ? I thought you were better than that.

What is disgusting is the SNP rejecting the will of us and are wanting to put us all through another divisive referendum when they should be putting all their efforts into running the country, not ruining it.

Look at this board, all the hatred from both sides. Multiply that many times over and that is what is happening all over Scotland.

All I'm doing Bodie is responding in kind to what you're doing. You seem to think its OK to treat those of us who truly believe Independence holds the best future for Scotland and it's people....... As Sh1t on you're shoes.
What you basically keep telling us is we're are useless we would make a total mess of running our country. According to you we are and must remain totally dependent on England. That's insulting and totally untrue.

As for the will of the people those people were conned and lied too.
We were told the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No. LIE
We were told through the "vow" we would have extensive New powers certainly "devo Max" and near to federalism.. LIE 72 % economic powers still with WM 85% welfare powers still with WM. LIE LIE.

Shipyard woulds close if YES vote ..If we vote No an order for 13 type 27 frigates would be placed..LIE

2000 HMRC jobs would go if Yes vote We vote No but they went anyway LIE.

Carbon Capture project promised if NO vote. 6 months after No project withdrawn by WM.

Oil Crisis "broad shoulders of the UK" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

The Union is the safest place for our most vulnerable.. After No vote 12Bn scrapped from welfare budget


The people have EVERY right to say haud on !!

[stewarty27]

I don't have any anger.


XDXDXD Paddy you are eternally Angry. A little fat squat man wi steam coming oot your ears kinda describes you :mad:

[Bodie80]

All I'm doing Bodie is responding in kind to what you're doing. You seem to think its OK to treat those of us who truly believe Independence holds the best future for Scotland and it's people....... As Sh1t on you're shoes.
What you basically keep telling us is we're are useless we would make a total mess of running our country. According to you we are and must remain totally dependent on England. That's insulting and totally untrue.

As for the will of the people those people were conned and lied too.
We were told the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No. LIE
We were told through the "vow" we would have extensive New powers certainly "devo Max" and near to federalism.. LIE 72 % economic powers still with WM 85% welfare powers still with WM. LIE LIE.

Shipyard woulds close if YES vote ..If we vote No an order for 13 type 27 frigates would be placed..LIE

2000 HMRC jobs would go if Yes vote We vote No but they went anyway LIE.

Carbon Capture project promised if NO vote. 6 months after No project withdrawn by WM.

Oil Crisis "broad shoulders of the UK" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

The Union is the safest place for our most vulnerable.. After No vote 12Bn scrapped from welfare budget


The people have EVERY right to say haud on !! I do not think that these people are sh1t on my shoes. You are getting more and more insulting towards me, making up things. Your next paragraph is also bulls1t. I will explain for the last time.
I think the SNP are disgusting for putting us all through another referendum when they should be concentrating on running the country. It's disgusting because it's divisive and causing a lot of hatred and division when it should have been put to bed in 2014.
And I think Scotland doesn't have the population or resources to carry on as we are now. What you are saying about me is insulting and totally untrue.
We will have to agree to disagree Stewarty as I think you are an arite guy and don't want us to come down to a childish slagging match. I respect your opinions although totally disagree with them, politically anyway :)
One last thing, as for the biggest bunch of lies all we have to do is read the white paper

[stewarty27]

I do not think that these people are sh1t on my shoes. You are getting more and more insulting towards me, making up things. Your next paragraph is also bulls1t. I will explain for the last time.
I think the SNP are disgusting for putting us all through another referendum when they should be concentrating on running the country. It's disgusting because it's divisive and causing a lot of hatred and division when it should have been put to bed in 2014.
And I think Scotland doesn't have the population or resources to carry on as we are now. What you are saying about me is insulting and totally untrue.
We will have to agree to disagree Stewarty as I think you are an arite guy and don't want us to come down to a childish slagging match. I respect your opinions although totally disagree with them, politically anyway :)
One last thing, as for the biggest bunch of lies all we have to do is read the white paper

Its the people of Scotland who will decide if we have a second referendum NOT the SNP. and in particularly those who voted NO. They are now finding they were lied too. As for the SNP ..They were clear in their manifesto that the Scottish Parliament would have the right to hold another one if there was a ‘significant and material change’ in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014 – such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.” and the majority of Scots accepted that by voting them into power. that's democracy that was the people !

[Bodie80]

Its the people of Scotland who will decide if we have a second referendum NOT the SNP. and in particularly those who voted NO. They are now finding they were lied too. As for the SNP ..They were clear in their manifesto that the Scottish Parliament would have the right to hold another one if there was a ‘significant and material change’ in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014 – such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.” and the majority of Scots accepted that by voting them into power. that's democracy that was the people ! I lied to by the snp who should be ashamed and apologise to us. Anyway Stewarty we could go round in circles as I will never ever agree with you and your sides spin on things and no doubt likewise you towards me. We are polar opposites, I think you are talking rubbish and you think I am.
Great result for our football team last night. Be brilliant if we could qualify for the WC for the first time since 1998. We have a good keeper, midfield and forward line just need to find some better defenders. The future is looking a wee bit brighter after last night :D. Time will tell because it is us and we could quite easily fall flat on our faces but just now the glass is most definitely half full

[stewarty27]

I do accept Alex Salmond said it was once in a generation decision. But you can't hold a whole Nation to the word of one Man's foolish remark. Anyway most poll's shows the biggest of those in favour of Independence is the younger generation. Perhaps they are thye next generation who will decide Scotland's future, As for the fitba I thought we were poor in the first half but I was encouraged by second half performance. But lets not get carried away it was only Malta.

[Bodie80]

I do accept Alex Salmond said it was once in a generation decision. But you can't hold a whole Nation to the word of one Man's foolish remark. Anyway most poll's shows the biggest of those in favour of Independence is the younger generation. Perhaps they are thye next generation who will decide Scotland's future, As for the fitba I thought we were poor in the first half but I was encouraged by second half performance. But lets not get carried away it was only Malta. I watched both us and the English and going by what I seen we have nothing to fear at Wembley in November. They once again were very poor. I've never seen such a talented group of individuals play so badly as a team over and over again. Three points is ours for the taken if we believe

[noahrab]

Says you that behaves like a caveman on here hating anyone who doesn't agree with.

Not sure what kind of life you have in Monifieth but going by your posting on here not sure how good it would be.
:)

Ive told c**** like you before, hate is a wasted emotion. Now you very well may 'hate' people or things, I don't.

Kinda makes me better than you I think.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Ive told c**** like you before, hate is a wasted emotion. Now you very well may 'hate' people or things, I don't.

Kinda makes me better than you I think.

Nae chance Paddy lad.

[noahrab]

Thank you for calling me a gentleman :)
You are right nothing I see or hear will change my mind. Infact as time goes on my mind is getting even stronger towards the unionist side.
Noah is a good lad and an interesting poster. He is not hate filled Buc, he is passionate and doesn't take fools gladly.

Stuartie and the other dafty are two of the biggest fools on here.

People like them with closed minds are what hold our country back.

[noahrab]

XDXDXD Paddy you are eternally Angry. A little fat squat man wi steam coming oot your ears kinda describes you :mad:

You may very well be an angry wee man, I ain't.

Your anger seeps through every post.

[noahrab]

Its the people of Scotland who will decide if we have a second referendum NOT the SNP. and in particularly those who voted NO. They are now finding they were lied too. As for the SNP ..They were clear in their manifesto that the Scottish Parliament would have the right to hold another one if there was a ‘significant and material change’ in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014 – such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.” and the majority of Scots accepted that by voting them into power. that's democracy that was the people !


How will the people of Scotland decide if theirs another referendum.

Do we have to have a referendum to find out if they want another referendum?

[noahrab]

Nae chance Paddy lad.


Rab, away and post another link that nae c*** will click on. This is a grown up debate.

Good lad.

[Rab_The_Ger]

You're raging, go on admit it. Btw Noah how many light bulbs can I buy for a quid pal?

[noahrab]

You're raging, go on admit it. Btw Noah how many light bulbs can I buy for a quid pal?

Proof if any were needed that Mad Rab can't hold a serious debate.

[redscot]

I do accept Alex Salmond said it was once in a generation decision. But you can't hold a whole Nation to the word of one Man's foolish remark.


A whole nation was nearly wrecked by that fat tw@t and his "foolish" (lies) remarks.


Edit to add a sweary word. :)

[Rab_The_Ger]

Proof if any were needed that Mad Rab can't hold a serious debate.

Proof that you Paddy lad are a complete and utter tadger.

[noahrab]

A whole nation was nearly wrecked by that fat **** and his "foolish" (lies) remarks.

Youve done it now.

They'll be along soon to call you a britnat, traitor, unionist etc etc.

Blah blah phuckin blah.

[noahrab]

Proof that you Paddy lad are a complete and utter tadger.

Do you think I care what you or anyone else thinks of me XD XD XD

You must be dafter than you come across as.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Do you think I care what you or anyone else thinks of me XD XD XD

You must be dafter than you come across as.

I'm as thick as phuck Paddy lad, my first call tomorrow is in Carnoustie, can I swing by Monifieth on my way and buy some light bulbs. How many for a quid Paddy?

[noahrab]

I'm as thick as phuck Paddy lad, my first call tomorrow is in Carnoustie, can I swing by Monifieth on my way and buy some light bulbs. How many for a quid Paddy?

First call XD XD XD

[Rab_The_Ger]

First call XD XD XD

Aye first call, so how many light bulbs can I buy for a quid Paddy lad?

[Bodie80]

Stuartie and the other dafty are two of the biggest fools on here.

People like them with closed minds are what hold our country back. Spot on with the closed mind comment and holding the country back. We are now two years on and they are still not accepting the result and the will of the Scottish people. Our country is in a mess and all they go on about is independence. The problem is people like them will never accept a no result. We could have another ten no results and they would still greet about it. The country cannot move forward until they accept we voted no

[noahrab]

Aye first call, so how many light bulbs can I buy for a quid Paddy lad?

Just you 'swing by' XD XD XD

[Bodie80]

Aye first call, so how many light bulbs can I buy for a quid Paddy lad? And you say I could bore the ass off a badger XD

[Rab_The_Ger]

Just you 'swing by' XD XD XD

Do sell socket extensions?

[Bodie80]

A whole nation was nearly wrecked by that fat tw@t and his "foolish" (lies) remarks.


Edit to add a sweary word. :) Coorect

[noahrab]

And you say I could bore the ass off a badger XD

Headshot fae DABmo.

[Rab_The_Ger]

And you say I could bore the ass off a badger XD

I was right though.

[noahrab]

Do sell socket extensions?

In English please.

[ZombieSkelper]

Give wab a break, it must be difficult to type correctly when his knuckles have been scraping off the ground all day. XD

[Rab_The_Ger]

Headshot fae DABmo.

"Headshot" some patter Paddy, pretty good from an auld guy.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Give wab a break, it must be difficult to type correctly when his knuckles have been scraping off the ground all day. XD

You getting pre match nerves this early in the week Skelper?

[noahrab]

Give wab a break, it must be difficult to type correctly when his knuckles have been scraping off the ground all day. XD

XD

Hes making a right c*** of himself here....as usual. XD

[Rab_The_Ger]

XD

Hes making a right c*** of himself here....as usual. XD

I don't sell light bulbs for a living, nor do I spam innocent people with E-mails Paddy lad.

[noahrab]

I don't sell light bulbs for a living, nor do I spam innocent people with E-mails Paddy lad.

Neither do I rubber nut.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Neither do I rubber nut.

Cheers for the clarification Paddy. see ya.

[noahrab]

Cheers for the clarification Paddy. see ya.


Cheers Rab.

Away back and flip those burgers son.

Im sure you'll get one star soon enough.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Cheers Rab.

Away back and flip those burgers son.

Im sure you'll get one star soon enough.

Gas Technician Paddy lad, who installs smart controls ie Nest etc when required, I don't sell them I INSTALL them when asked. Now what's the price on the light bulbs?

[noahrab]

Gas Technician Paddy lad, who installs smart controls ie Nest etc when required, I don't sell them I INSTALL them when asked. Now what's the price on the light bulbs?


A phuckin TECHNICIAN XD XD XD

Phuck all smart aboot you son.

Keep flippin Rab.

[Rab_The_Ger]

A phuckin TECHNICIAN XD XD XD

Phuck all smart aboot you son.

Keep flippin Rab.

24 YEARS Paddy, hence the reason I know Buc. there's nothing I can't do re gas central heating ask Buc. Drayton S plan or Y plan wiring is my speciality pal.

[ZombieSkelper]

The closest wab ever got to being a gas technician was that time he tried to smell his own farts in the bath.

[Rab_The_Ger]

The closest wab ever got to being a gas technician was that time he tried to smell his own farts in the bath.

You're certainly nervous Skelper.

[noahrab]

24 YEARS Paddy, hence the reason I know Buc. there's nothing I can't do re gas central heating ask Buc. Drayton S plan or Y plan wiring is my speciality pal.

S U R E

There is nothing you CAN do ya pap.

[noahrab]

The closest wab ever got to being a gas technician was that time he tried to smell his own farts in the bath.

XD XD XD

Once a week.

[ZombieSkelper]

You're certainly nervous Skelper.

Why would you sniffing your own farts make anyone nervous wab? :?

[Rab_The_Ger]

S U R E

There is nothing you CAN do ya pap.

Good to speak to you Paddy I'll be in touch and maybe cut a deal with some stuff. Cheers.

[noahrab]

Good to speak to you Paddy I'll be in touch and maybe cut a deal with some stuff. Cheers.

As many light bulbs as you can buy for a pound Rab XD XD XD

[Higgins09]

You are right nothing I see or hear will change my mind.


Spot on with the closed mind comment and holding the country back.

How open is your mind Dabmo?

[stewarty27]

How will the people of Scotland decide if theirs another referendum.

Do we have to have a referendum to find out if they want another referendum?

Fairly simple Paddy. surprised you didn't work it out yersel. mind you nae the brightest lightbulb in the box ...are you.

Give you a wee while to think it out.

[noahrab]

Fairly simple Paddy. surprised you didn't work it out yersel. mind you nae the brightest lightbulb in the box ...are you.

Give you a wee while to think it out.

You either want to debate it seriously or you want to keep coming across as a pap.

The question was a simple enough one but even then it's appears too difficult for you.


Do we have to have a referendum to find out if we want another independence referendum?

[stewarty27]

You either want to debate it seriously or you want to keep coming across as a pap.

The question was a simple enough one but even then it's appears too difficult for you.


Do we have to have a referendum to find out if we want another independence referendum?

Calm down there fella your anger will make you ill. We can always measure you're level of Peevishness by going from " you c***s to Son and when its steam oot O the ears time its "your a pap"

Not a referendum as such more an election let you work the rest out.

[Buc]

Nae chance Paddy lad.

Paddy you think you are better than anyone on here you don't know..

No I don't do hate but YOU DO.look at the endless list of replies on this board tell me enough about you

The number one being you obviously lack intelligence..

I do dislike some things but not hate you are full of it.:)

[Buc]

Hey Rab mate your wasting your time with noarab he's past redemption .

All the same god bless you Paddy.

[Bodie80]

How open is your mind Dabmo? Eh ? can you not read :)

[Rab_The_Ger]

Buc, leave it now mate. The net has closed as you know our industry is a close nit one. Bygones be bygones and all that.

[noahrab]

Brilliant.

I've now got Braveheart, Rob Roy and Rab 'the technician' , the Holy Trinty ganging up on me.

Should I be worried?

[noahrab]

Buc, leave it now mate. The net has closed as you know our industry is a close nit one. Bygones be bygones and all that.

I'm sure you meant 'knit instead of 'nit'.

To be fair, you're only a 'technician'.

[Rab_The_Ger]

I'm sure you meant 'knit instead of 'nit'.

To be fair, you're only a 'technician'.

Typo, and here's me thinking we were getting somewhere Paddy Lad.

Tut,tut.

[noahrab]

Typo, and here's me thinking we were getting somewhere Paddy Lad.

Tut,tut.

Typo :)

[Rab_The_Ger]

Typo :)


Sell me some Drayton controls, we could have a deal of sorts.

Technician, you better believe it. Paddy Lad.

[noahrab]

Sell me some Drayton controls, we could have a deal of sorts.

Technician, you better believe it. Paddy Lad.

FFS flip flop.

Earlier on you were looking fer light bulbs XD XD XD

[ZombieSkelper]

The lightbulb in wab's head went out a long time ago. :(

[noahrab]

The lightbulb in wab's head went out a long time ago. :(

Do you think 'the technician' is his underworld name XD XD XD

[Rab_The_Ger]

FFS flip flop.

Earlier on you were looking fer light bulbs XD XD XD

Light bulbs or whatever it's fine by me, it's a small world Noah, give Buc a break on here, i don't agree with Independence nor the SNP either and as I said earlier it creates a bigger and more bitter argument than football does.

Hope you take in what I said, no malice intended.

Cheers Rab.

[noahrab]

Light bulbs or whatever it's fine by me, it's a small world Noah, give Buc a break on here, i don't agree with Independence nor the SNP either and as I said earlier it creates a bigger and more bitter argument than football does.

Hope you take in what I said, no malice intended.

Cheers Rab.

Rab, I'll give anyone a break when they don't come the c***.

Hope you take in what I said, no malice intended.

Cheers Rab.

[stewarty27]

Light bulbs or whatever it's fine by me, it's a small world Noah, give Buc a break on here, i don't agree with Independence nor the SNP either and as I said earlier it creates a bigger and more bitter argument than football does.

Hope you take in what I said, no malice intended.

Cheers Rab.

Why don't you agree with Independence Rab ? Don't you think its a normal thing for a sovereign Nation to be ?

[Rab_The_Ger]

Rab, I'll give anyone a break when they don't come the c***.

Hope you take in what I said, no malice intended.

Cheers Rab.

You're nothing special. Buc's a diamond in real life and probably one of the best guy's I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, he has no angst nor a bitter bone in his body he hates confrontation and also abuse. Give him a break Noah, btw the world isn't against you. Some of your posts are spot on, some are way off, I'm far from perfect as well you know, but I'll fight my corner.

Give it a break and let bygones be bygones.

[ZombieSkelper]

Uncle Buc is a gentleman and a scholar.

Wab the fart smelling technician is a daft hun pryck.

[redscot]

Why don't you agree with Independence Rab ? Don't you think its a normal thing for a sovereign Nation to be ?


Nae luck Rab you have stewarty on your case now. XD

[noahrab]

You're nothing special. Buc's a diamond in real life and probably one of the best guy's I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, he has no angst nor a bitter bone in his body he hates confrontation and also abuse. Give him a break Noah, btw the world isn't against you. Some of your posts are spot on, some are way off, I'm far from perfect as well you know, but I'll fight my corner.

Give it a break and let bygones be bygones.

I'm a diamond in real life and I'll probably be one of the best guys you'll never have the pleasure of meeting.

He's happy to deal out abuse when it suits though.

I've nothing to let bygones be bygones for. Unlike others I don't take this, or any other messageboard seriously.

Some people need to chill or get the phuck off here if they're that precious about things.

[Rab_The_Ger]

Uncle Buc is a gentleman and a scholar.

Wab the fart smelling technician is a daft hun pryck.

Someone from section 111 or whatever should be used to the nose clips.

Good to see your nerves kicking in Skelper, trying to get my attention.

Remember and get a shower in Tollcross before heading down to BreezeBlock Boulevard.:P

[stewarty27]

You're nothing special. Buc's a diamond in real life and probably one of the best guy's I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, he has no angst nor a bitter bone in his body he hates confrontation and also abuse. Give him a break Noah, btw the world isn't against you. Some of your posts are spot on, some are way off, I'm far from perfect as well you know, but I'll fight my corner.

Give it a break and let bygones be bygones.

Have to say Rab you are showing a level of maturity I never knew you possessed

But I would have to say to you give Paddy a break.. OCD is a very disturbing condition.
Anyway about this Independence thingy :O

[ZombieSkelper]

Someone from section 111 or whatever should be used to the nose clips.

Good to see your nerves kicking in Skelper, trying to get my attention.

Remember and get a shower in Tollcross before heading down to BreezeBlock Boulevard.:P

Why would I go all the way to Tollcross for a shower when I have one in my house Wab? :?

[Buc]

I'm sure you meant 'knit instead of 'nit'.

To be fair, you're only a 'technician'.

No I'm not a technician Rab is the technician he knows more about fixing boilers than most ever will.
I'm a retired gas heating gas safe installer and have been since 1974 .
My gas tickets run out in January but I will more than likely renew even though I won't need it much .
Not ready for the scrap heap yet..
For the record I'm just having a laugh with you.
I've learned recently not to take football boards like this one too much to heart.

It's sad to see this board becoming more of a political board these days scone used to keep this board going with various topics and many very funny .

[neilo]

What a read this thread was. :(

A lot of the usual rhetoric Trident, Westmonster, no oil fund, being ruled by another country...blah blah. Yet as usual a lack of any real substance.

It seems the Nats still don't know the difference between debt and a deficit which would be mildly disturbing if it wasn't for the fact we all know there won't be a second referendum and there certainly will never be independence.

The Nats fail to share their ideas for paying for everything. i can't see anything other than austerity max and high taxes. Growing the economy will take decades and if by casting up £64trillion debt you mean Scotland will just borrow it like Westminster have done for years then I'd love to hear who's gonna lend IScotland the money with no LOLR and a made up currency.

[JackSnakes]

What a read this thread was. :(

A lot of the usual rhetoric Trident, Westmonster, no oil fund, being ruled by another country...blah blah. Yet as usual a lack of any real substance.

It seems the Nats still don't know the difference between debt and a deficit which would be mildly disturbing if it wasn't for the fact we all know there won't be a second referendum and there certainly will never be independence.

The Nats fail to share their ideas for paying for everything. i can't see anything other than austerity max and high taxes. Growing the economy will take decades and if by casting up £64trillion debt you mean Scotland will just borrow it like Westminster have done for years then I'd love to hear who's gonna lend IScotland the money with no LOLR and a made up currency.

I think I'd rather put my faith in those whose job it is to know these things rather than a bunch of opinionated amateurs who, frankly, know the square root of fk all about it.
There is no doubt there would have to be some savings found, and there is no doubt there would be a cost attached to becoming independent.
As has been previously mentioned, if that cost is too high for you then it is probably best if you just excuse yourself completely from the debate and put your wee 'X' in the 'No' box.
The very last thing an independent Scotland would need is a bunch of miserable passengers.
Much as the brexit stuff down here, it has happened, the turkeys voted for Christmas and now we all have to make the best of the mess they landed us in.
Mind you, there aren't quite so many extremists down here...

[Higgins09]

Bloody hell, even Wang's come out the closet (again) for this one.

[stewarty27]

What a read this thread was. :(

A lot of the usual rhetoric Trident, Westmonster, no oil fund, being ruled by another country...blah blah. Yet as usual a lack of any real substance.

It seems the Nats still don't know the difference between debt and a deficit which would be mildly disturbing if it wasn't for the fact we all know there won't be a second referendum and there certainly will never be independence.

The Nats fail to share their ideas for paying for everything. i can't see anything other than austerity max and high taxes. Growing the economy will take decades and if by casting up £64trillion debt you mean Scotland will just borrow it like Westminster have done for years then I'd love to hear who's gonna lend IScotland the money with no LOLR and a made up currency.

RHETORIC Neilo !! you don't see the irony in your own post ? You're actually saying the things you mention are of no importance to the Scottish people ?. It doesn't matter that over 40 years of Oil and Gas wealth has been completely squandered on Wars, tax cuts for the rich, English vanity projects, WMDs, Whilst children in Scotland live way below the poverty line. You just don't get it do you ?

As for the second referendum its coming as is Independence. We have learned so much for the practice run. and yes we made mistakes. Independence is now on the Scottish political agenda. Twenty years ago it wasn't an issue. Today nine people out of every twenty have voted for it. We saw Better Together side having to make hasty concessions at the eleventh hour, The VOW remember that Neilo ? and lo and behold those promises are dis appearing one by one. an unstoppable chain of events has been set in motion and you and you're right wing media friends can shout "Too wee Too poor, Too phuckin stupid all you like Neilo.

Just a wee note on demographics Neilo ..if you breakdown those who voted Yes it was the younger generation who were by far the biggest Yes voters. Whilst it was elderly generation who ultimately delivered the No vote and they are gradually dying out, Shame but thems the facts.

[Bodie80]

What a read this thread was. :(

A lot of the usual rhetoric Trident, Westmonster, no oil fund, being ruled by another country...blah blah. Yet as usual a lack of any real substance.

It seems the Nats still don't know the difference between debt and a deficit which would be mildly disturbing if it wasn't for the fact we all know there won't be a second referendum and there certainly will never be independence.

The Nats fail to share their ideas for paying for everything. i can't see anything other than austerity max and high taxes. Growing the economy will take decades and if by casting up £64trillion debt you mean Scotland will just borrow it like Westminster have done for years then I'd love to hear who's gonna lend IScotland the money with no LOLR and a made up currency. Excellent post Neilo as per from your goodself. Good to see someone with sense on this subject :)
Also it's good to see you posting on here again, long may it continue
Rule Britannia and all that B)

[stewarty27]

Excellent post Neilo as per from your goodself. Good to see someone with sense on this subject :)
Also it's good to see you posting on here again, long may it continue
Rule Britannia and all that B)

A northern Irish Unionist/Loyalist against Scottish Independence ..Shockeroooony !!