How Bad Would Relegation Be?

[rileyev.the.third]

Okay, I know the Championship or even better is where we all want to be. But.....

Should we go down and assuming we don't suffer financial disaster with the loss of the current revenue we get, which looking at how TS does things, I don't think we will.

Just how gutted will people all be?

Although I have enjoyed the last 2 seasons, I enjoyed the previous 2 promotion seasons much more. Seeing us winning games on a regular basis and challenging at the top of the league was for me, a more enjoyable experience than the last 2 seasons, often not knowing where our next 3 points were going to come from.

Having said that the run Neil Warnock took us on was brilliant and fully enjoyable but was an unexpected bonus in a season that was looking dead and buried.

I'm not being defeatist here either. My wish would be to find a way of competing in this league, whether through additional investment, or if he can afford it, TS making more funds available. That said if he can't and investment isn't forthcoming, I do not advocate him bankrupting the club for a 1 swallow in a summer moment.

All I'm trying to say is would it be the end of the World if we did go down but had a great season in League 1 next year.

Perhaps I'm just pining for some of those last minute winners that got us to the level we are at now.

Oh to be the fan of a small club in the big boys league eh!!!!!

Please try and keep responses civil peeps!!!!

[lbj]

Watching Sheff - U v Gillingham

Very poor -

Just looking through the fixtures is a thrill - to even be in this league is a privilege!

Going down would NOT be good!

Just want AS to get the lads together and be competitive !....UTM

[redhouse]

I really want us to stay in this league even if it is a struggle at times, it's nice to be able to compete

towards the top of any league you are in

But I would be really disappointed if we went down, what I would really like and I am still quite confident

it could happen is for us to compete playing like we did for that first half hour against Wolves

UTM :)

[Casper64Frank]

It would ask the question should he have squeezed a bit more out of the budget.
Accounts ending December 2014 showed a turnover of £11M with wages & salaries of almost £5M.
Unless you're in the know it's pure speculation what this year's will be. Extra cash from Sky TV but we've not sold anyone recently, was Arnie & Agard the last two ?
Hospitality & Corporate are booked up evey game, more sponsor's than we've ever had. Record season ticket sales this season.
The usual will happen, a drop in revenue & Tony Stewart will cut his cloth to suit.

[animallittle3]

Relegation cost my club Barnsley around 4 million pound's , that figure maybe even more now with the new tv deal , I'd suggest all your top earners will have to go and it's a case of trying to re-balance the books and bring in after the fire sales what you can as suitable replacements , we were able to buy Hourihane and Winnall after selling Chris O'Grady to Brighton .

Footballing wise league one's much better than it was the last time we were at that level in 2006 , deffo more football getting played than the usual kick and rush .

League one's got an honesty about it that you don't find in the championship , already I've seen the divers and play actors and QPR's defenders waving imaginary yellow cards to the ref in order to get our players booked , hate that aspect of it .

Far from the end of the world getting relegated , proper clubs with proper fans down there instead of the plastic p illocks you find in the championship , you win more games too which is helpful and a guaranteed derby with the blunts who seem to like life in that division given their reluctance to get out of it .

[Back of the net]

Don't want to go down would be gutted.

That said I'd go and watch us play in Clifton park.

UTM

[mellowmiller]

There is a view that it is better to be doing well in the division below than to be struggling in the one above.
This may be true to a certain extent but presumably the point of doing well in the division below is to get out of it and be able to play in the one above.
That is the dilemma for a small club like ours but I think it is pretty obvious that Tony Stewart doesn't even want to contemplate relegation as the financial implications would be far reaching.
He has said he wants the club to become established in the Championship and has even loftier ambitions.
Most level headed supporters are struggling to understand how either of these targets can be achievable without increasing the budget or securing additional investment.
Personally I want us to stay in the Championship as relegation to League 1 doesn't bear thinking about but, if we keep sacking managers and building new squads, this is going to be pretty difficult.

[CAMiller]

History over the last 20 years shows us that League 1 (Division 3) is a place we don't stay very long, just 4 seasons there compared to 7 in the Championship and 9 in League 2. Admittedly the two seasons on the way down were tainted with administration/financial issues and the two single seasons on the way up were astonishing to say the least and having done it once under RM nobody I believe expected it under SE. All in all I'd say it's a place we need to avoid if at all possible.

[Fensmiller]

What would be the point in going down again? Surely the effort would then be to get back up to the Championship again and if we managed it what then? Would we want to go back down again. If we dont want to be in the Championship then there is no incentive to compete in L1. Which then begs the question do we want a football club at all.

Sport is about competing and striving otherwise there is no point in any of it

[Anderson Council]

History over the last 20 years shows us that League 1 (Division 3) is a place we don't stay very long, just 4 seasons there compared to 7 in the Championship and 9 in Le8ague 2. Admittedly the two seasons on the way down were tainted with administration/financial issues and the two single seasons on the way up were astonishing to say the least and having done it once under RM nobody I believe expected it under SE. All in all I'd say it's a place we need to avoid if at all possible.

Agreed Cam. Fact is the 3 times in living memory we have been relegated from the second tier we have dropped into the fourth tier before the climb back to championship level. Although weve done the 2 promotion bounce twice nobody would suggest the trip has been easy.

I say stay in the championship whether its finishing 4th bottom or mid table. Look at how Barnsley benefitted by staying in the league when promoted with us in 1981. They hung in there and eventually gained promotion and when they did drop down were back in the championship within 2 seasons. I say stay in as long as possible and gain a foothold.

[rileyev.the.third]

Just be clear, I'm not advocating a return to League 1.

Just asking if a successful campaign in L1 next season would be more enjoyable than a seasons struggle in the Championship.

I've already said I'd rather us compete at this level.

I just don't think we will!!

[PeteWaller]

Good topic Riley

Have to say my wife and I travelled to Plymouth by train when we got promoted from L2. It was a great day and I think there would be say 150 Millers fans that day. We won and were so excited at the prospect of promotion. But it was a bloody long day.

Then, next season and on to the Play Offs v PNE when we got to Wembley. Fantastic atmosphere at the NYS all season really so winning does give us fans that feeling of wellbeing. Then Wembley itself – the greatest day in our lives for me and my wife. Immensely excited, immensely proud and the prospect of Championship footy with that team of never say die players, just could not wait.

Then the Championship. We lost our players and lost our mojo some might say. Been nothing but a struggle with very few wins, good hidings every now and again and the season end elation when we achieve missing the trap door back to L1.
For me, the Championship is absolutely supreme. I love visiting the mainly first class stadiums, the much bigger crowds and boy do we as away fans put up a fair shout – until we fall behind at least. The quality in the Championship is far removed from L1 and L2, a different world. I have the chance to see our lads against £12 - £15 million pound players and teams approaching £100million in value. For me, I want our lads to pull that shirt on, be very proud to wear it and watch them get stuck in until such time as they are almost feeling sick because they are that knackered.

Not sure we’ve seen that this season but hopefully it will come.

I know and I have always known that the Millers can’t really compete at this level and I hope (in vain) that TS will get a joint investor in at some stage so that the miracle can happen. I doubt it will ever happen. I watched the Millers when we had 17 consecutive seasons in the then second division but I can’t remember that division ever being gifted with as many top clubs as the Championship possesses now. Money has talked and will continue to do so. Would love a little more so that we could afford the wages of a Gerry Gow for example or a Bob Delgado. We need a Mr Nasty to help us compete properly imo. We are way to nice and will be footballed off the field until we start to tackle hard. Maybe Stubbs can introduce this concept.

I like winning, who doesn’t? Never understood people saying they were happy to come second or third and glad to have taken part. Not for me, I hate getting beat but I hate getting beat when I think players haven’t put a shift in. Put a shift in and you’ll do for me.

So I suppose I might enjoy games in L1 more. Something tells me I won’t.

I prefer to battle the big boys and I love the big upset.

Championship all day long and every day for me.

[mellowmiller]

Who could ever forget the League 1 promotion season and all that it entailed?
Brilliant team spirit, thrills and spills, last minute winners and then Wembley to cap it all off. Brilliant times!
BUT the purpose of it all was to earn the right to play at the next level and for the team to compete against the big boys.
So please let's not throw it all away now, or even think that it may be better to go down and try to come straight back up. What would be the point of that and fairy tales rarely come true anyway.
The Championship is the place to be and the board and manager have to do everything in their powers to keep us there.

[animallittle3]

Just how long do you think you guys can avoid the hang man's noose whilst operating under your present plan ? can you also name me 3 clubs you can finish above this season as the 3 promoted sides seem in better shape at present to compete at this level and all but Burton Albion also appear to have more resources .

I'm not here to put the knife in but it seems the majority of millers are living in hope rather than facing reality , who could be sold for 3 or 4 million in January allowing the manager to bring in 3 or 4 players that can make you more competitive ?

Can the owner re-finance the club and provide those funds if nobody can be sold ?

Reactive not proactive won't get 51 points on the board , this is the toughest championship of all time and I've never seen so many clubs spending so much money .

The 3 clubs who you think you can finish above would be ?

[mellowmiller]

I can't think of 3 at the moment but it's a bit too early to worry about that yet.
If we can make NYS a fortress, as the saying goes, we will have a fighting chance.
We're going to need a striker or two though!

[millmoormagic]

Just how long do you think you guys can avoid the hang man's noose whilst operating under your present plan ? can you also name me 3 clubs you can finish above this season as the 3 promoted sides seem in better shape at present to compete at this level and all but Burton Albion also appear to have more resources .

I'm not here to put the knife in but it seems the majority of millers are living in hope rather than facing reality , who could be sold for 3 or 4 million in January allowing the manager to bring in 3 or 4 players that can make you more competitive ?

Can the owner re-finance the club and provide those funds if nobody can be sold ?

Reactive not proactive won't get 51 points on the board , this is the toughest championship of all time and I've never seen so many clubs spending so much money .

The 3 clubs who you think you can finish above would be ?

The three 'B's....Burton, Blackburn, Barnsley, also not sticking the knife in, but it's a long old season in this division, you and Burton have had a very good start and well done, but 5 games in is too early to get carried away, and that applies to the doom monging Millers fans as well!!

[animallittle3]

The three 'B's....Burton, Blackburn, Barnsley, also not sticking the knife in, but it's a long old season in this division, you and Burton have had a very good start and well done, but 5 games in is too early to get carried away, and that applies to the doom monging Millers fans as well!!



I'm not getting carried away far from it and I am the glass half empty type of supporter , despite our solid start I'll take 4th bottom right now if it was offered .

We've got a good plan but it ain't perfect , dropped a bollox spending 650k on Moncur who we've just loaned out to a Posh , 3 or 4 of those and we are in hot water too .

[CAMiller]

Again, history shows us that in the end the power of the cheque book will always win out. You can buck the trend for a while (I would say punch above your weight by that would upset Monty) but eventually if you don't have the money you will struggle. Take a look at the leagues and in general, those that have/spend the money win out over those that don't. Without spending we can't keep pulling rabbits out of the hat forever so I can see the frustration of fans who are contemplating a perpetual struggle and want TS to either spend the money (it's his prerogative as it's his money) or bring others on board who will. However, you have to be careful what you ask for as we could end up being renamed The NY Knickerbockers and playing in blue and white stripes.

PS I wonder where our fans are who were wailing woe is me when we didn't sign Moncur?

[animallittle3]

Again, history shows us that in the end the power of the cheque book will always win out. You can buck the trend for a while (I would say punch above your weight by that would upset Monty) but eventually if you don't have the money you will struggle. Take a look at the leagues and in general, those that have/spend the money win out over those that don't. Without spending we can't keep pulling rabbits out of the hat forever so I can see the frustration of fans who are contemplating a perpetual struggle and want TS to either spend the money (it's his prerogative as it's his money) or bring others on board who will. However, you have to be careful what you ask for as we could end up being renamed The NY Knickerbockers and playing in blue and white stripes.

PS I wonder where our fans are who were wailing woe is me when we didn't sign Moncur?


Not sure about his ability Miller he's not started a game yet , Moncur and his dad knocked on Hecky's door and demanded a starting spot , Hecky told him he can't guarantee anyone a shirt so sent him out on loan , 5 games in and he's kicking off .

The kids not for us and clearly made of the wrong stuff , Marc Roberts and Josh Scowen spent weeks on the bench last season but fought their way back in and are now the first names on the team sheet .

As I say the plans fine right now but it ain't flawless .

[pip_y]

Reactive not proactive won't get 51 points on the board , this is the toughest championship of all time and I've never seen so many clubs spending so much money .

Well if you divide 51 points by 46 games and then multiply by 5 games played you will find that to be on target we should have 5.54 points, so I would argue that we are only 1.5 behind. Bearing in mind we have played 2 of the strongest teams away I'm not grumbling

[mygiddypant]

When I started watching the Millers in '59 we were an established 2nd Division side (now Chumpship). It was (almost) a given that we wouldn't be promoted or relegated. Clearly we are nowhere near 'permanent' status, and clearly it's going to become harder to achieve that because of the finances required.
I don't know anyone who has ever expressed the opinion that it would be a good idea to go down - 'cos you never know when you're coming back up.

[animallittle3]

Well if you divide 51 points by 46 games and then multiply by 5 games played you will find that to be on target we should have 5.54 points, so I would argue that we are only 1.5 behind. Bearing in mind we have played 2 of the strongest teams away I'm not grumbling


Thanks mate for the compliment , aye your right of course tough ask for you to get owt at fortress Oakwell ;D

[Anderson Council]

I can't think of 3 at the moment but it's a bit too early to worry about that yet.
If we can make NYS a fortress, as the saying goes, we will have a fighting chance.ĺ
We're going to need a striker or two though!

I think there is a lot of tosh spoken about the strength of the championship. Sure there are the big clubs whose wealth has been swollen by the totally undemocratic practice of parachute payments. Many clubs no longer belong to local owners, but to oversea tycoons who have their own idea of how to run a club.

However, there are a lot of ordinary clubs such as Preston, Barnsley, Blackburn, Burton, Cardiff, Brentford and ourselves. Perm any three from seven or maybe more. Yes we may be in the dreaded mix but TS has made a bold decision to hire a young manager who has changed the demographic of the side.

Will it work? We dont know. Not the moaners, not the happy clappers, not the pragmatists. Its going to be a very interesting sesson.

Up the Millers.

[caytonmiller]

Anderson. you mentioned 7 teams there. that imply s there are 17 other teams that are strong teams. which teams from league 1 would do any better than the 7 you mention in the championship? Bolton? Bradford? Millwall? sheff U?
most of the teams you mentioned would be pushing for auto promotion come May if they were in league 1.
sadly money talks and the fanbase has a massive influence on the success of the clubs.
though this season there are more teams with sim spending power to our own budget so relegation will be down to good management and a little luck..

[caytonmiller]

ow forgot to answer the original question.
no way can we afford to go down. looking over the past 5 years, teams of sim size to our self dont come back easily. donny, millwall, coventry, pompy, scunny. you do get the one or two exceptions. wigan/barnsley but wigan still had parachute payments so cash to burn for league one stds and barnsley all the stars aligned just right

[pip_y]

Thanks mate for the compliment , aye your right of course tough ask for you to get owt at fortress Oakwell ;D

Sorry to burst your bubble but both Brighton and Villa will finish above Barnsley. ����

[millavanilla]

What would be the point in going down again? Surely the effort would then be to get back up to the Championship again and if we managed it what then? Would we want to go back down again. If we dont want to be in the Championship then there is no incentive to compete in L1. Which then begs the question do we want a football club at all.

Sport is about competing and striving otherwise there is no point in any of it


Best post ever..

[millavanilla]

Good topic Riley

Have to say my wife and I travelled to Plymouth by train when we got promoted from L2. It was a great day and I think there would be say 150 Millers fans that day. We won and were so excited at the prospect of promotion. But it was a bloody long day.

Then, next season and on to the Play Offs v PNE when we got to Wembley. Fantastic atmosphere at the NYS all season really so winning does give us fans that feeling of wellbeing. Then Wembley itself – the greatest day in our lives for me and my wife. Immensely excited, immensely proud and the prospect of Championship footy with that team of never say die players, just could not wait.

Then the Championship. We lost our players and lost our mojo some might say. Been nothing but a struggle with very few wins, good hidings every now and again and the season end elation when we achieve missing the trap door back to L1.
For me, the Championship is absolutely supreme. I love visiting the mainly first class stadiums, the much bigger crowds and boy do we as away fans put up a fair shout – until we fall behind at least. The quality in the Championship is far removed from L1 and L2, a different world. I have the chance to see our lads against £12 - £15 million pound players and teams approaching £100million in value. For me, I want our lads to pull that shirt on, be very proud to wear it and watch them get stuck in until such time as they are almost feeling sick because they are that knackered.

Not sure we’ve seen that this season but hopefully it will come.

I know and I have always known that the Millers can’t really compete at this level and I hope (in vain) that TS will get a joint investor in at some stage so that the miracle can happen. I doubt it will ever happen. I watched the Millers when we had 17 consecutive seasons in the then second division but I can’t remember that division ever being gifted with as many top clubs as the Championship possesses now. Money has talked and will continue to do so. Would love a little more so that we could afford the wages of a Gerry Gow for example or a Bob Delgado. We need a Mr Nasty to help us compete properly imo. We are way to nice and will be footballed off the field until we start to tackle hard. Maybe Stubbs can introduce this concept.

I like winning, who doesn’t? Never understood people saying they were happy to come second or third and glad to have taken part. Not for me, I hate getting beat but I hate getting beat when I think players haven’t put a shift in. Put a shift in and you’ll do for me.

So I suppose I might enjoy games in L1 more. Something tells me I won’t.

I prefer to battle the big boys and I love the big upset.

Championship all day long and every day for me.


Bob delgado ? Really? Its a good post but bob delgado ?

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

The club need to stay in the championship, to sustain the fan base it has now, relegation to division 1 would be a crushing blow, & the fan base would drop accordingly.
The championship has good teams in it, be it we have our local derbies, plus better teams who have been relegated from the premier come to the NYS, & our fans visit their stadiums, personally I don't agree with the parachute payments the teams get when relegated from the premier.
When a premier team get relegated its up to the club to put a clause in the contract of players, that their wages will drop accordingly, whether the player stays with the club is up to them.
I am one of the old school, where as if a team plays better than the Millers, I accept defeat acknowledging the team that have beat us, same as in the past a visiting goalkeeper makes a good save, or the opposing team score a good goal, I acknowledge them by clapping.
We as Miller fans want to see good teams at our stadium, & want our team to win, if not winning, putting a decent shift in on the pitch.
The town needs Rotherham United, & Rotherham United need the town to give reason to fight for a championship place, be it the Millers finish 4th from bottom, it is a result for the club, with its finance against the millions other clubs have paid.
Looking at the money the other clubs are spending in the championship, it would seem that sooner than later Tony Stewart will look to get more investment into the club, while requiring a person also on board with more football knowledge, than what is in the boardroom now.

[mellowmiller]

Ericslad, concerning your last sentence, that's what a lot of us have been saying needs to happen for some time now for the club to have a realistic chance of becoming established in the Championship and not being involved in a relegation battle every season.
I'd like to know if Tony Stewart is actively pursuing further investment or if he genuinely feels he can continue to do it on his own at this level.
I suspect it is the latter.

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

Ericslad, concerning your last sentence, that's what a lot of us have been saying needs to happen for some time now for the club to have a realistic chance of becoming established in the Championship and not being involved in a relegation battle every season.
I'd like to know if Tony Stewart is actively pursuing further investment or if he genuinely feels he can continue to do it on his own at this level.
I suspect it is the latter.

Yes Mellowmiller I am one of the people who has been saying Tony Stewart needs some more finance from another source, but also needs a person on the board, who knows the ins & outs of the football minefield.

[caytonmiller]

Maybe start a thread Eric. Fans can put there pros and cons at outside investment

[mellowmiller]

Maybe start a thread Eric. Fans can put there pros and cons at outside investment

And there certainly are pros and cons Cayton.
It would make for an interesting debate though.