We're a bottom 5 championship football club

[Back of the net]

We have bottom 5 players.

We have bottom 5 support.

We have bottom five finances.

Stubbs has brought in a few decent ones a few average ones and a few poor ones.

Who's faults is that well partly him and partly the budget I guess.

Yesterday was 2 relegation candidates one team wanted it more.

I understand Kempo calling for Warnock back but he didn't want to stay last time so not sure why he would change his mind now.

Also we had a large slice of luck under Warnock not sure we would have that again. We would just be in the same position again next year when he left.

The facts are we are a bottom 5 club and will be fighting to stay up whoever the manager is in my opinion.

Do I think Stubbs can keep us up I'm not sure but what I won't do is slag him off depending on the result.

I think he's getting some stuff wrong at the moment and did against forest but we managed a draw.

We may aswell get used to it were a bottom 5 team and hopefully will do enough to stay up.

UTM

[mellowmiller]

Some good points there BOTN.
The problem is, being a bottom 5 Championship club is probably not sustainable in the long term as support will dwindle and sponsors will not rush to be associated with a struggling club.
There have been plenty of debates on here about whether TS should be looking to attract additional external finance. Personally I don't think he will as the Stewart family will not want to relinquish control over what they have built so it looks like we'll be stuck with a team that perennially battles relegation.
I'm guessing the next throw of the dice by TS will be to sack the manager if results don't improve soon but then what? His record of managerial appointments is pretty poor and it will need someone of special calibre to improve things with such a small budget.
Not much fun being a Miller at the moment but there are worse things in life.

[Monkey46]

The sit back and get spanked approach isn't pretty to watch, and we have already said that's the last away trip, until he has gone, not wasting my hard earned coin on watching that shi-,

[monty_rhodes]

BOTN, there is very little in your post that I would disagree with. Kempo is an intelligent poster but I feel he's flying a bit of a kite with the Warnock idea. Not going to happen and I'm not sure it would be a good idea anyway.

[gwru]

Difference with the Warnock or Stubbs way. Up front former had 1 up front with Derbs working his socks off on the left. Under Stubbs the one + Izzy & Ward have struck up an understanding. So we've got to play to that.

Defence has got to push up. Midfield as got to cover the defence as one & push forward as one. Halford is to slow for that, Adeyemi just doesn't look fit.

So side for next sat' Camp Fisher Fry Ball Mattock Taylor Vaulks Frecks Newell Brown Ward. Midfield has not got to go gun ho. Got to bide its time, when we get that break take it. Is that to simple.

[gm_gm]

I'd say we are a bottom 4 club which is even more fraught with danger.

[rolymiller]

Nah too generous, I would say we are a bottom club at the moment.You cant concede 3 or 4 goals every game and hope to finish anywhere else. Till Stubbsy starts getting clean sheets against us we are doomed.

[Anderson Council]

I think that the way forward to recreate the seige mentality that Warnock did. Its a strange one that a great central defender cant get a team that can keep a clean sheet. For me, sucess begins at the back. Kelly and Wilson look shot and Kirky can't get back soon enough.

At the moment I would question fitness and also think that the employment of a psychologist by the club would not go amiss. Its a fact that to suceed in most things you need to get your head right. Some of our body language looks defeatist to me.

Like most on here I would take 5th bottom this season.

[Amanda_Hugg_n_Kiss]

You get luck when you have belief and fight. Positivity is the key.

UTM!

[mellowmiller]

You get luck when you have belief and fight. Positivity is the key.

UTM!

Well that's certainly true.
We had a hell of a lot of luck at times last season when Warnock was in charge but he also created a siege mentality and most players would have run through a brick wall for him.
Unfortunately I don't see much of that attitude or application in the current squad and very few of our problems can be put down to bad luck.

[rolymiller]

The refs are still wonk -crap again yesterday-but that isnt stopping us getting pasted every week.

[Nardendee]

Depends on your point of view. There is now so much disparity in this league and our budget is a fraction of most of the clubs in this league.

I would ask all those who are ultra critical to be careful what they wish for.

Go through the teams in this league count how many ex Prem teams there are?
Two or three years ago the likes of us and Burton were plying our trade in League 2.

Go back to the Play Off Final in 2014. One missed penalty separated us from Leyton Orient who are now back down in league 2.

I have been supporting this club since 1965 when (the younger generation might not believe this) we actually were on a level playing field with clubs such as Derby, Crystal Palace, Cardiff City, Norwich City, Hull City, all of whom had later had more success whereas we went backwards.
There was nowhere near the money. All clubs were owned by local business men. There was no TV money. Total level playing field.

The Championship is now the fifth biggest league in the world, many clubs backed not only with fabulously rich benefactors but with Premiership parachute money all vying to catapult them into (with the new TV deal) the Premiership and into the top 25 clubs in the world.

Competing in that league is our Club, with Burton excepted, has the smallest budget by a wide margin.
Many of the owners are BILLIONAIRES who bankroll them, not on a budget like us.

We shop at Lidl whereas they shop at Harrods.

Without such an owner we are now punching WAY above our weight and I think supporters should think back to the time our club nearly went out of business until the white knight in the form of Mr. Stewart gave us belief and built us a new ground and brought in what proved to be a master stroke of a Manager, a man relatively unknown apart of course from a colourful past.
That man of course was Steve Evans, who introduced a siege mentality, Millwallesque in a way, no one likes us we don't care. Teams didn't like playing us, neither did they like playing Warnock teams. Up and at em. In your face. Players like Frecks, combative epitomised those teams. Even now we are not the same team without him.
This is the only way we can compete because we cannot out football these bigger teams. They have better players. What these better players don't like though is the combative 100% blood and guts type of player who get in their faces on a cold Tuesday night in January.
These are the players we need and a Manager who can motivate players.

This is the only way we can compete.

I can't believe some people think that we would be better of a division below, considering the gap is widening. Why play Wolves under 23's in the Mickey Mouse Cupwhen we can play their first team in the league we are at?

Out driving today listening to Radio 5 and Alan Green actually said that Sunderland would be better off getting relegated than getting beaten every week?
Really? Ask the fans what they think? Ask their Directors. Everyone says the Prem is the only place to be. How can such a stupid comment be made after only 5 or 6 games? Equally how can we be talking about relegation. Yes we've had a few tonkings and our goal difference is a bit naff but this will happen.
Enjoy the ride because for a club of our size mixing it with the big boys and giving them a bloody nose is what dreams are made of.
Get behind the lads because this is dreamland guys. These National press types don't want us up there because we are not fashionable. Well tough. We are here on merit and instead of crass comments like Villa fans made - from Rotterdam to Rotherham, they should be thinking, how good are they? They have battled up to our level with a team that in total earns less than ONE of our players?
Looking at league tables at this stage is ridiculous I know, but already it's struggling Rotherham!! Not struggling Villa (1 point ahead) or Derby (same points)

Ask yourselves seriously - at this point, who of the three last mentioned teams is the most successful? The answer will surprise you. Who then are the real strugglers?

[millavanilla]

Thats a great post mate, and true, only thing is, if we dont stop the goals going in weve had it, and im not sure stubbs is up to it..

[PeteWaller]

Excellent post.

[mellowmiller]

Excellent post Nardendee.
I'd just say we can't keep looking backwards about what has been achieved at the club because that's the best way for the business to stagnate.
The chairman has repeatedly stated his ambitions for the club, ridiculously so in the view of many people, so he needs to tell us what plans are in place to achieve them.
Either that or accept we are never going to be able to compete consistently at the level we're at and prepare for the inevitable decline.
Somehow I don't think Tony Stewart will contemplate the latter but I've no idea how he can achieve the former.

[animallittle3]

Without wishing to be disrespectful guys and please accept this as an honest opinion without prejudice .

Rotherham United have always struggled at this level , even during the early 80s with a leveller playing field you went down after two seasons , at the begining of this century you only managed to stay the distance three seasons I believe , there wasn't the same money kicking around then either as we see today .

It's asking a hell of a lot to be very competitive at this level given your clubs resources , you've done very well to survive two seasons thus far , that in itself is a major accomplishment .

Yes I know it's easy for me to say riding high 4th in the league and 13 million quid in the bank but we are operating in exceptional times and having a mini golden period , however nothing is forever in football and once it's over and it will end one day then our rightful place these days is pretty much where you sit today .

You can only polish so many turds , you can only chance your arm so many times ( Warnock - Flitcroft ) and our owners are not Chinese or Russian billionaires .

It is what it is , Bury , Rochdale, Mansfield or The Spireites don't even get anywhere near us and they are very similar towns to ours , don't be too hard on the club or owner , there's only so much they can do and I'd suggest he's already totally transformed you from the Millmoor and DVS days , he's done a cracking job .

[Lasterman]

Nardendee is spot on. We can only compete in this league by out-battling teams, not out-playing them. I think most who are frustrated at the moment realise this, and also realise that's not how we're trying to play. I don't think we mind losing if we go down fighting. What we mind is getting beaten trying to play a game we're not equipped for.

[tom12026]

too much sense spoken by the last few posters,not sure if I,m dreaming.

[Nardendee]

Animalittle 3 one of your points is factually incorrect. We spent 17 consecutive seasons at this level between 1951 and 1968 and in 1955 missed out on promotion on goal average to the top flight. I do agree though, as I posted in my original thread that there wasn't the money around then. Tommy Docherty joined in 1967 and promised to get us out of the league and he was right - we went down with Plymouth in 67/68.
When I was watching them in the mid sixties Doncaster Rovers and Barnsley were in the 4th Division. Barnsley only really started overtaking us after we both got promoted in 1981.

Great days the mid sixties and I still remember most of the team without need of reference. Rod Jones, Wilcockson
Clish Rabjohn Hazelden Tiler Lyons Chappell Galley Casper & Pring. We had never been in the basement league until 1973 and that was such a farce it had to be seen to be believed as we were never in the bottom 4 until 10 days after we played our last game of the season.

[CAMiller]

What we mind is getting beaten trying to play a game we're not equipped for.

Football? ;D

[Nardendee]

Thinking about it 1973 was very much a defining year for me as a fan. The comedy of errors that led to our relegation sums it all up really. Fleeting success but more ups than downs...wouldn't have it any other way though, would be a bit boring winning every week wouldn't it.
Always a Miller though. Unlike Managers players even Directors, it is a lifetime commitment.
Certain games you know what's coming but the hope is always there.
I'll leave you with a parting true story. My old Uncle Charlie was a Sheffield United fan and every time (as a 50 something year old) they lost he used to go upstairs and lay on the floor in his bedroom and refuse to eat his dinner. True story but just to bring reality to it- no he didn't die of starvation, although he was a rather thin chap.😀