SNP activists

[Bodie80]

When can the missus and I expect to open our front door to one of these fruit loops with their clip boards wondering what they have to do to make us change our minds on the way we would vote ? Could it be Buc or Stewarty ?
Whoever it is we cannot wait :)

[stewarty27]

When can the missus and I expect to open our front door to one of these fruit loops with their clip boards wondering what they have to do to make us change our minds on the way we would vote ? Could it be Buc or Stewarty ?
Whoever it is we cannot wait :)

Gies your address Bodie and we'll send roon the A Team to you ;D

[JackSnakes]

When can the missus and I expect to open our front door to one of these fruit loops with their clip boards wondering what they have to do to make us change our minds on the way we would vote ? Could it be Buc or Stewarty ?
Whoever it is we cannot wait :)

What is it they have to do?

And is there any chance you could answer my last question about what exactly makes this union so 'fantastic'?

[stewarty27]

I echo Jacks question Bodie. What will make you change your mind ?

[noahrab]

What is it they have to do?

And is there any chance you could answer my last question about what exactly makes this union so 'fantastic'?

Dont think anyone says it's fantastic just that we don't have a viable credible alternative.

The SNP, when given the opportunity to convince the population last time, failed spectacularly to answer simple basic economic questions and only had the mantra 'trust us, it'll be ok. We're telling the truth, everyone else is lying.'

Didn't wash then and economically they are still floundering.

If they got on and governed like they were elected to do, proved we could do better with the extra economic levers we now have, Scotland and its people would be better served than this constant talk of neverendums which won't happen anytime soon.

Then and only then will they start to win the hearts and minds they require to make their dream a reality.

Blaming Westminster for every phuckin thing they can just grates on those they need to convince. The fact they and their supporters can't see that does them no good at all. Voters are bored of it.

[stewarty27]

Dont think anyone says it's fantastic just that we don't have a viable credible alternative.

The SNP, when given the opportunity to convince the population last time, failed spectacularly to answer simple basic economic questions and only had the mantra 'trust us, it'll be ok. We're telling the truth, everyone else is lying.'

Didn't wash then and economically they are still floundering.

If they got on and governed like they were elected to do, proved we could do better with the extra economic levers we now have, Scotland and its people would be better served than this constant talk of neverendums which won't happen anytime soon.

Then and only then will they start to win the hearts and minds they require to make their dream a reality.

Blaming Westminster for every phuckin thing they can just grates on those they need to convince. The fact they and their supporters can't see that does them no good at all. Voters are bored of it.

Personally I think the economics are sound. The potential is there its really just a case of who you trust with the Levers of power. Westminster or the people who have Scotland's real interests at heart. Hey Noah I've just got my "National Survey through this morning would you fancy being my first interviewee ? would be happy to do it on here with you.

[noahrab]

Personally I think the economics are sound. The potential is there its really just a case of who you trust with the Levers of power. Westminster or the people who have Scotland's real interests at heart. Hey Noah I've just got my "National Survey through this morning would you fancy being my first interviewee ? would be happy to do it on here with you.

A 15billion hole in the P&L and the economics are sound :)

The SNP have their own narrow agenda at heart and couldn't give a phuck about our real interests. A one policy party.

You c**** need to open your eyes and start looking at the poor performance in many areas of our society that they are directly responsible for.

[Taintedice]

The SNP don't have the experience to run an independent country, doubt they ever will. The only way I think it could ever happen was with a coalition of anti-tory parties in Scotland with all the electoral support those parties currently attract. Labour MPs with experience of Westminster government would be highly beneficial to that, but doubt they'll ever commit to their home country when the expenses in London make them millionaires.

[spameater1]

When can the missus and I expect to open our front door to one of these fruit loops with their clip boards wondering what they have to do to make us change our minds on the way we would vote ? Could it be Buc or Stewarty ?
Whoever it is we cannot wait :)

People like yourself unfortunately are so indoctrined in your Fear and Hatred of any new Ideas you would happily accept anything your Imperial Masters tell you,so don't bring yer Missus into your Brainwashed Union Flagism Bull Shyte.It belongs to you and you alone don't drag others into it.

[noahrab]

People like yourself unfortunately are so indoctrined in your Fear and Hatred of any new Ideas you would happily accept anything your Imperial Masters tell you,so don't bring yer Missus into your Brainwashed Union Flagism Bull Shyte.It belongs to you and you alone don't drag others into it.

'Fear and hatred' XD XD XD

[spameater1]

'Fear and hatred' XD XD XD

Aye,no the only sheep in the village.

1585

[Bodie80]

People like yourself unfortunately are so indoctrined in your Fear and Hatred of any new Ideas you would happily accept anything your Imperial Masters tell you,so don't bring yer Missus into your Brainwashed Union Flagism Bull Shyte.It belongs to you and you alone don't drag others into it. You know phuck all about me Spameater so for you to judge me is laughable. And one thing for sure is you know zip about my missus. I will tell you one thing about he which is she is as big or not bigger a unionist than me and I can bring her into whatever I want. I certainly will not be told what to do by a brainwashed nut job like you

[spameater1]

You know phuck all about me Spameater so for you to judge me is laughable. And one thing for sure is you know zip about my missus. I will tell you one thing about he which is she is as big or not bigger a unionist than me and I can bring her into whatever I want. I certainly will not be told what to do by a brainwashed nut job like you

Only going by the Billy Britshyte you post on here.

[Bodie80]

Only going by the Billy Britshyte you post on here. Billy Britshyte :). What are you on about ?
And wtf does that even mean ?

[Bodie80]

Aye,no the only sheep in the village.

1585 That is smart as phuck.

[Bodie80]

I echo Jacks question Bodie. What will make you change your mind ? I don't think there is anything that will make me change my mind. I suppose I will get called the I'm all right Jack kind of guy by what I am going to say. Life for me and my family, close and far is pretty good. We all have jobs and roofs over our heads. We are all educated and all can get treatment when we fall ill. None of this has come easy and none of us are cash or property rich by any means. We are all working class and have worked bloody hard (and still are) for what we have. I don't want anymore than I have and also don't want to put at risk what I have built up for my family out at risk just so Scotland can become Independant. I want my family's kids to have the chance of a good future and I believe a leap into the unknown puts that at a huge risk which is just not worth it. And I do care about other people as does my missus. I have worked in the care sector with adults with learning difficulties and my missus still does. We give to charity every month. I really don't need to explain myself anymore but what I will say is call me what you want i.e repulsive, selfish, a Tory chunt, I'm alright Jack or whatever, I really don't care. I know that my family and myself are good people that does a lot for soceity.

[Bodie80]

I will add that I'm not obsessed with Scotland and being Scottish. Of course I am a proud Scot but also a proud Brit. I have English and Welsh family. I don't know if I have Northern Irish as I have not traced my family tree back. My family have also been big servers in Her Majesty's forces especially the RAF and Navy. I have lost close relatives serving our nation. We all stick together to protect these lands. I think of our union as one big family that competes with and against each other at many different sports. It is just a fantastic thing we have going and to break it up is just wrong IMO.

[noahrab]

Billy Britshyte :). What are you on about ?
And wtf does that even mean ?

DABmo, it means anything or anyone who doesn't follow the narrow separatist agenda and has a different viewpoint.

Apparently you're not allowed to have a different opinion which stems from the way the SNP is run.

Oh and by the way, your comment about them knowing phuck all about anyone on here is bang on, but hey ho, if it keeps them happy :)

[stewarty27]

I respect all that Bodie many people have done well out of the Union I can't and wont deny that. But on the other hand many have suffered through Westminsters neo liberal and austerity policies. There's also self respect ! as a bone fide sovereign Nation doesn't it make you slightly uncomfortable to be ruled by another Nation ? That's basically UK politics these days it can be understood very simply 156 constituencies in the affluent SE England alway decides who governs the UK. Tony Blair knew this. I also don't think its a leap into the unknown most sensible folk concede Scotland has all the resources to be a very successful Country. Even Alistair Darling leader of Better together admitted that. The essence of Better Together's message was "" We are Better Together"" when the reality is the two countries of England and Scotland are growing even further apart. Theres a xenophobic bitterness engulfing England at the moment. This Brexit has been the greatest political upheaval in British politics for a very long long time and it is also deepening the divide in the Union. You must see this Bodie and as a Unionist this must worry you. Some Scottish voters like yourself may not relish the thought of another independence referendum, but there is no doubt that what has happened in the past three months has fatally undermined support for the “caring sharing” UK that Gordon Brown and Better Together urged Scots to remain a part of two years ago. And on top of all this all the promises they made to us during Indyref1 are disappearing like snaw aff in dyke.

[stewarty27]

DABmo, it means anything or anyone who doesn't follow the narrow separatist agenda and has a different viewpoint.

Apparently you're not allowed to have a different opinion which stems from the way the SNP is run.

Oh and by the way, your comment about them knowing phuck all about anyone on here is bang on, but hey ho, if it keeps them happy :)

You see the trouble wi you Paddy is sadly you don't have the brain power or intellect to rise above your hatred for the SNP it consumes you and blinds you to the bigger picture. There are many like you and its a real shame. Never mind.

[noahrab]

You see the trouble wi you Paddy is sadly you don't have the brain power or intellect to rise above your hatred for the SNP it consumes you and blinds you to the bigger picture. There are many like you and its a real shame. Never mind.

Blah blah phuckin blah.

[stewarty27]

Blah blah phuckin blah.

Gonna tell us how the GERs figures are compiled Paddy. Whats your view on the Office for Budget responsibility ? Do you think its a Tory propaganda instrument ? C'mon Paddy boy Perhaps you share my view the Iraq war was illegal. Do you have a view on that.

[noahrab]

Gonna tell us how the GERs figures are compiled Paddy. Whats your view on the Office for Budget responsibility ? Do you think its a Tory propaganda instrument ? C'mon Paddy boy Perhaps you share my view the Iraq war was illegal. Do you have a view on that.

Wee man, you're allowed your own opinions.

You can't have your own facts though.

You'll thank me for that piece of wisdom.

[stewarty27]

Wee man, you're allowed your own opinions.

You can't have your own facts though.

You'll thank me for that piece of wisdom.

Just as I thought thick as sh1te in a bottle.

[noahrab]

Just as I thought thick as sh1te in a bottle.

Blah blah phuckin blah.

[Bodie80]

DABmo, it means anything or anyone who doesn't follow the narrow separatist agenda and has a different viewpoint.

Apparently you're not allowed to have a different opinion which stems from the way the SNP is run.

Oh and by the way, your comment about them knowing phuck all about anyone on here is bang on, but hey ho, if it keeps them happy :) Cheers Noah, I had no idea what that meant :)

[Bodie80]

I respect all that Bodie many people have done well out of the Union I can't and wont deny that. But on the other hand many have suffered through Westminsters neo liberal and austerity policies. There's also self respect ! as a bone fide sovereign Nation doesn't it make you slightly uncomfortable to be ruled by another Nation ? That's basically UK politics these days it can be understood very simply 156 constituencies in the affluent SE England alway decides who governs the UK. Tony Blair knew this. I also don't think its a leap into the unknown most sensible folk concede Scotland has all the resources to be a very successful Country. Even Alistair Darling leader of Better together admitted that. The essence of Better Together's message was "" We are Better Together"" when the reality is the two countries of England and Scotland are growing even further apart. Theres a xenophobic bitterness engulfing England at the moment. This Brexit has been the greatest political upheaval in British politics for a very long long time and it is also deepening the divide in the Union. You must see this Bodie and as a Unionist this must worry you. Some Scottish voters like yourself may not relish the thought of another independence referendum, but there is no doubt that what has happened in the past three months has fatally undermined support for the “caring sharing” UK that Gordon Brown and Better Together urged Scots to remain a part of two years ago. And on top of all this all the promises they made to us during Indyref1 are disappearing like snaw aff in dyke. People will suffer no matter what government is in or where that government is based be ot Westminster or Hollyrood. It's not just on these Isles either it's the world over. There will always be people who are not prepared to get off their lazy erses and get a job. There is lots of jobs out there but people are not prepared to work so scrounge off the state which really p1sses me off. Believe me I know some of these people unfortunately.
You ask about self respect well I've got loads. I've always worked and provided for my family. I have been made redundant twice in my life and both times found a job that payed a hellava lot less. To be governed from Westminster IMO is a good thing as I like being in the Union sharing everything with 60 million rather than 5 million people. I am a proud Scot but it's not the be all and end all as I am even prouder to be British.
The bottom line is Stewarty the most important thing to me is my family's happiness and they are so I would never put that at risk. I also will not put their future at risk just so Scotland is independent which really means nothing to me. My family is the most important thing in the world, nothing comes close.

[JackSnakes]

I don't really think the tone of this discussion helps anyone.
As can be seen there are people who want independence regardless of any ill-effects it may bring.
There are also people who will never vote for independence regardless of any positive effects it may bring, so this thread seems to be less about asking questions of those who will or won't, but just about abusing those who have a different opinion.

Well done.

That'll change the world.

[noahrab]

I don't really think the tone of this discussion helps anyone.
As can be seen there are people who want independence regardless of any ill-effects it may bring.
There are also people who will never vote for independence regardless of any positive effects it may bring, so this thread seems to be less about asking questions of those who will or won't, but just about abusing those who have a different opinion.

Well done.

That'll change the world.

You'll note that it's the independence at any cost posters that are the abusers as they cannot countenance anything else.

Those of us who could be swayed with the answers to pertinent questions are getting nowhere with them.

Every figure produced that shows up independence as anything other than the land of milk and honey, even figures from sources used by the SNP in the referendum, are dismissed as propoganda, Tory lies etc etc.

Its no wonder I take the pysh out of them.

[spameater1]

You'll note that it's the independence at any cost posters that are the abusers as they cannot countenance anything else.

Those of us who could be swayed with the answers to pertinent questions are getting nowhere with them.

Every figure produced that shows up independence as anything other than the land of milk and honey, even figures from sources used by the SNP in the referendum, are dismissed as propoganda, Tory lies etc etc.

Its no wonder I take the pysh out of them.

If Blah Blah Phucking Blah is your idea of taking the pysh,then all I can say is thank phuck for the comedy vision of Wlatty and Wolph.:zzz:

[noahrab]

If Blah Blah Phucking Blah is your idea of taking the pysh,then all I can say is thank phuck for the comedy vision of Wlatty and Wolph.:zzz:

Hardly, that's a comment on the wastemonster, fool Britannia, britnat, MSM etc et. pysh that appears from you c**** every other post.

Shows you c**** up for the uneducated phuckwits that you are.

[JackSnakes]

I am someone who would vote for independence unless there was a compelling argument against it. So far I have seen no such argument. I suppose there are many who would vote for the union unless there was a compelling argument against it. They are probably still waiting also. The fact is that it is an unknown entity and any argument is therefore all speculation and devoid of facts. There are some figures you can use but the bottom line is that if you do not want to be an independent country then you are not going to vote for independence. Arguing over who is an idiot or not is not really conducive to anything other than division and hatred which, according to some, is all on the unionist side. According to others, it is all on the nationalist's side. I see no reason either on here or in the popular press to take any sides on that one. Now, there are many things I enjoy getting aerated about - I enjoy a good barney... :D ... but the independence (or not) of a country is not really something that should be trivialised with name-calling and facetious arguments :)

[stewarty27]

I am someone who would vote for independence unless there was a compelling argument against it. So far I have seen no such argument. I suppose there are many who would vote for the union unless there was a compelling argument against it. They are probably still waiting also. The fact is that it is an unknown entity and any argument is therefore all speculation and devoid of facts. There are some figures you can use but the bottom line is that if you do not want to be an independent country then you are not going to vote for independence. Arguing over who is an idiot or not is not really conducive to anything other than division and hatred which, according to some, is all on the unionist side. According to others, it is all on the nationalist's side. I see no reason either on here or in the popular press to take any sides on that one. Now, there are many things I enjoy getting aerated about - I enjoy a good barney... :D ... but the independence (or not) of a country is not really something that should be trivialised with name-calling and facetious arguments :)

I like this post. And mea culpa I have engaged in some childlike name calling. However its borne out of pure frustration I have tried repeatedly to engage the poster Noah in mature and objective debate on the future of our country. But all I get back is bitter resentment that I have the nerve to challenge the status quo. In most of my posts I have tried to put forward a POSITIVE vision of the potential of our country. As for blaming """ wastemonger"" as keeps get thrown at me as an argument of course by default its a valid position to take .But the main thrust of my argument is about Scotland its people and its resources its massive potential to be a better fairer and a more equal country. Also to have the financial means to make this possible. Another argument that's prevalent is Noah's hatred of the SNP it clouds his thinking and stops objectivity. Independence is not about the SNP its far far bigger than that. The SNP are a means to an end that's all. So I invite Noah to discuss the pro's and con's of our future without the retort of Blah Blah phuckin Blah.

[noahrab]

I like this post. And mea culpa I have engaged in some childlike name calling. However its borne out of pure frustration I have tried repeatedly to engage the poster Noah in mature and objective debate on the future of our country. But all I get back is bitter resentment that I have the nerve to challenge the status quo. In most of my posts I have tried to put forward a POSITIVE vision of the potential of our country. As for blaming """ wastemonger"" as keeps get thrown at me as an argument of course by default its a valid position to take .But the main thrust of my argument is about Scotland its people and its resources its massive potential to be a better fairer and a more equal country. Also to have the financial means to make this possible. Another argument that's prevalent is Noah's hatred of the SNP it clouds his thinking and stops objectivity. Independence is not about the SNP its far far bigger than that. The SNP are a means to an end that's all. So I invite Noah to discuss the pro's and con's of our future without the retort of Blah Blah phuckin Blah.

'Mature and objective debate' XD XD XD

Dont make me phuckin laugh.

All you do is cut and paste from what can best be described as pro independence website or bloggers and at worst be described as independence propoganda.

You don't have a single original thought in yer head about independence wee man.

I don't hate the SNP, I can see them for what they are as opposed to you and yer ilk thinking the sun shines out of 'Nicola's' erse.

The next time you try and engage anyone in a 'mature and objective debate' will be the first.

[noahrab]

I am someone who would vote for independence unless there was a compelling argument against it. So far I have seen no such argument. I suppose there are many who would vote for the union unless there was a compelling argument against it. They are probably still waiting also. The fact is that it is an unknown entity and any argument is therefore all speculation and devoid of facts. There are some figures you can use but the bottom line is that if you do not want to be an independent country then you are not going to vote for independence. Arguing over who is an idiot or not is not really conducive to anything other than division and hatred which, according to some, is all on the unionist side. According to others, it is all on the nationalist's side. I see no reason either on here or in the popular press to take any sides on that one. Now, there are many things I enjoy getting aerated about - I enjoy a good barney... :D ... but the independence (or not) of a country is not really something that should be trivialised with name-calling and facetious arguments :)

What is the 'compelling' argument for it?

All I see is rhetoric with no substance and a 'trust us it'll be ok' reply.

How much financial pain would we go through to get to what the separatists desperately want? People might be prepared to put up with it if they knew. Surely that's not too much to ask before a decision is made.

[JackSnakes]

What is the 'compelling' argument for it?

All I see is rhetoric with no substance and a 'trust us it'll be ok' reply.

How much financial pain would we go through to get to what the separatists desperately want? People might be prepared to put up with it if they knew. Surely that's not too much to ask before a decision is made.
As I said in my post, those expecting one are still waiting for it and no, I don't think the truth is too much to ask.
I believe that perhaps people were treated as maybe not mature enough to handle the possible downside therefore they were not told it.
I think that was probably a mistake and indeed thought so at the time.
The fact of the matter is that both campaigns were so utterly gash that neither would have changed the mind of anyone but the most stupid.
Politicians usually believe that if they lay out the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then the media will simply sensationalise some bits much more than others, thereby swaying the minds of voters. In this respect, the politicians are right.
The media CAN sway many, and it is not difficult to exaggerate and bend facts to suit any particular agenda.
The old joke about the man hailed as a hero when he kills a vicious dog to save a child until he's found to be English/Muslim/Celtic supporter/rangers supporter and is then exposed as someone who murdered a poor family pet is a bit extreme, but not far from the truth.
It is, and was, incumbent upon both sides of the argument to lay out their vision and their beliefs for the future, warts and all, leaving nothing out, and ensure that everyone gets it straight from the horses mouth, and not after it has been subjected to bias and partiality by unscrupulous journalists with an agenda.
Surely if everything is going to be better, you have nothing to hide by giving people the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
If you give them an opinion, at least say it is an opinion and give the public the reasons why you have arrived at that opinion - which experts or public bodies have been consulted and why you think their opinion holds weight.

It should have been a careful and measured campaign but descended into shameful name-calling and personal attacks that were not worthy of the nation that was taking such an important decision.
It was like a class of five year-olds instead of this country's top politicians.
I would like to think that the people of Scotland are grown-up enough to be able to discern fact from fiction, to not allow themselves to be swayed by rhetoric either from politicians or the media, and to be able to make a decision based on the full and frank facts set before them.

[noahrab]

As I said in my post, those expecting one are still waiting for it and no, I don't think the truth is too much to ask.
I believe that perhaps people were treated as maybe not mature enough to handle the possible downside therefore they were not told it.
I think that was probably a mistake and indeed thought so at the time.
The fact of the matter is that both campaigns were so utterly gash that neither would have changed the mind of anyone but the most stupid.
Politicians usually believe that if they lay out the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then the media will simply sensationalise some bits much more than others, thereby swaying the minds of voters. In this respect, the politicians are right.
The media CAN sway many, and it is not difficult to exaggerate and bend facts to suit any particular agenda.
The old joke about the man hailed as a hero when he kills a vicious dog to save a child until he's found to be English/Muslim/Celtic supporter/rangers supporter and is then exposed as someone who murdered a poor family pet is a bit extreme, but not far from the truth.
It is, and was, incumbent upon both sides of the argument to lay out their vision and their beliefs for the future, warts and all, leaving nothing out, and ensure that everyone gets it straight from the horses mouth, and not after it has been subjected to bias and partiality by unscrupulous journalists with an agenda.
Surely if everything is going to be better, you have nothing to hide by giving people the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
If you give them an opinion, at least say it is an opinion and give the public the reasons why you have arrived at that opinion - which experts or public bodies have been consulted and why you think their opinion holds weight.

It should have been a careful and measured campaign but descended into shameful name-calling and personal attacks that were not worthy of the nation that was taking such an important decision.
It was like a class of five year-olds instead of this country's top politicians.
I would like to think that the people of Scotland are grown-up enough to be able to discern fact from fiction, to not allow themselves to be swayed by rhetoric either from politicians or the media, and to be able to make a decision based on the full and frank facts set before them.

Correct, it's not too much to ask for.

[stewarty27]

'Mature and objective debate' XD XD XD

Dont make me phuckin laugh.

All you do is cut and paste from what can best be described as pro independence website or bloggers and at worst be described as independence propoganda.

You don't have a single original thought in yer head about independence wee man.

I don't hate the SNP, I can see them for what they are as opposed to you and yer ilk thinking the sun shines out of 'Nicola's' erse.

The next time you try and engage anyone in a 'mature and objective debate' will be the first.

Oh Dear. You really dislike me don't you. Are you aware of the aggressiveness and tone in your responses to me ? I have asked you politely to discuss and debate Scottish Independence. are you prepared to do that ?

[noahrab]

Oh Dear. You really dislike me don't you. Are you aware of the aggressiveness and tone in your responses to me ? I have asked you politely to discuss and debate Scottish Independence. are you prepared to do that ?

You might dislike an anonymous person on an internet messageboard you've never met and don't know, fortunately, I'm not as shallow as you.

You have no interest in whether independence is good for Scotland or not, just that you want it.

You ain't worthy of debate.

[stewarty27]

You might dislike an anonymous person on an internet messageboard you've never met and don't know, fortunately, I'm not as shallow as you.

You have no interest in whether independence is good for Scotland or not, just that you want it.

You ain't worthy of debate.

Is it really beyond you to be civil ?

[noahrab]

Is it really beyond you to be civil ?

Can't see anything uncivil about my reply wee man.

If that upsets you I think you'd better not get involved in any 'debate' if that's a measure of how precious you are.