The United Kingdom

[Aldo1983]

Load of old *******s eh? Can't we get another referendum sooner rather than later? I'm sick of hearing pish from the Tories. We shouldn't have let the Huns vote.

[Mason89]

It's fairly obvious that No voters dropped a b*llock here. They must be cringing

[StandfreeFM]

It's fairly obvious that No voters dropped a b*llock here. They must be cringing

Nit. Saved y'all from financial ruin and what thanks to we get. Fu(k all.

[tamzarian]

Over-rated IMO.

[Mason89]

Nit. Saved y'all from financial ruin and what thanks to we get. Fu(k all.

I managed financial ruin all by myself thank you very much.

[Buc]

Financial ruin Westminster caused the dept of £1_6 trillion and rising.
Scotland will be a successful country when the time comes..
The union is falling apart its on its knees and we the YES voters have a taste for it and its not going away.
The Tories will see to that.

[Aldo1983]

Hopefully queen Nicola is the actual leader of an independent scotland Buc. Can't see it not happening.

[Buc]

Hopefully queen Nicola is the actual leader of an independent scotland Buc. Can't see it not happening.

If not queen Nicola the a certain one for the future that young lass Black.

[Rochead]

If not queen Nicola the a certain one for the future that young lass Black.

Black as Leader of the SNP, definitely a match made in heaven.

[Jupiter]

Queen Nicola LOL. She looks like she is in the middle of a *** change.

[Buc]

You unionists on here don't like Nicola and the young lass Black they are the best quality in any party and they will finish the job .
No fear.

[Buc]

Black as Leader of the SNP, definitely a match made in heaven.

I agree :)

[Buc]

Queen Nicola LOL. She looks like she is in the middle of a *** change.


Now I have I'm sure we all agree great taste with the ladies .
Nicola looks stunning whilst wearing they tartan heels she should have been a model.
:heart:

[Buc]

Here's the young upcoming star of the SNP making her maiden speech at Westminster.

Enjoy.
https://youtu.be/lZAmhB55_-k

[Rochead]

I agree :)

If Nicola finds out that you have a twinkle in your eye for a younger woman you will be in deep doo doo. ;D

[Buc]

If Nicola finds out that you have a twinkle in your eye for a younger woman you will be in deep doo doo. ;D

ACH I can't afford to be fussy .but I can always dream.:heart:

[sancho_panza]

Although I spent most of the referendum arguing against it, I'm not against independence in principle. Politically I would back it as I think however much I might disagree with the slightly disturbing SNP can do no wrong crowd, there's a fairly rotten core of English public opinion which I find completely alienating: the blighty rules the world, let the migrants drown, Daily Express view of society.

It depends entirely on the timing though. Sturgeon knows that fine well and she's going to sit it out in the hope the underlying economic figures improve. At present we'd have a major hole in our finances if we were independent. We can dance around that fact all we like and try and paper over the cracks with appeals to raw emotion or paranoia, but it is what it is. Maybe in 5-10 years it'll be more viable and I'll support it.

[stewarty27]

Although I spent most of the referendum arguing against it, I'm not against independence in principle. Politically I would back it as I think however much I might disagree with the slightly disturbing SNP can do no wrong crowd, there's a fairly rotten core of English public opinion which I find completely alienating: the blighty rules the world, let the migrants drown, Daily Express view of society.

It depends entirely on the timing though. Sturgeon knows that fine well and she's going to sit it out in the hope the underlying economic figures improve. At present we'd have a major hole in our finances if we were independent. We can dance around that fact all we like and try and paper over the cracks with appeals to raw emotion or paranoia, but it is what it is. Maybe in 5-10 years it'll be more viable and I'll support it.

If the major hole you're referring to is the latest GERs figures it must be understood these figures do not and can't be applied to an Independent Scotland. Also closer inspection of GERs throw up a lot of anomalies. Corporation tax is is hidden off GERS because no single company declares and pays tax on their Scottish originating profits, neen o them !!. Take Whisky companies such as Diageo pay tax in London these are money raised in Scotland and taken from Scotland straight to London if this revenue was paid in Scotland. this would make a huge difference to GERs. the list goes on Argos, B&Q, ASDA, Tesco, Morrison’s, Next, Poundland, Sports Division and the list goes on and on, billions in profits are syphoned out of Scotland. In a nutshell GERs is Sh1te. And we really must ask ourselves can we afford to wait 10 years !!

[Buc]

If the major hole you're referring to is the latest GERs figures it must be understood these figures do not and can't be applied to an Independent Scotland. Also closer inspection of GERs throw up a lot of anomalies. Corporation tax is is hidden off GERS because no single company declares and pays tax on their Scottish originating profits, neen o them !!. Take Whisky companies such as Diageo pay tax in London these are money raised in Scotland and taken from Scotland straight to London if this revenue was paid in Scotland. this would make a huge difference to GERs. the list goes on Argos, B&Q, ASDA, Tesco, Morrison’s, Next, Poundland, Sports Division and the list goes on and on, billions in profits are syphoned out of Scotland. In a nutshell GERs is Sh1te. And we really must ask ourselves can we afford to wait 10 years !!

Thing is Stewarty how many of the Joe public actually are aware of this .
Secondly people need to start questioning why mainstream media like the BBC who will happily tell you GERs figures but not tell you the whole story rather misleading..
Keeping Scotland down

[StandfreeFM]

If the major hole you're referring to is the latest GERs figures it must be understood these figures do not and can't be applied to an Independent Scotland. Also closer inspection of GERs throw up a lot of anomalies. Corporation tax is is hidden off GERS because no single company declares and pays tax on their Scottish originating profits, neen o them !!. Take Whisky companies such as Diageo pay tax in London these are money raised in Scotland and taken from Scotland straight to London if this revenue was paid in Scotland. this would make a huge difference to GERs. the list goes on Argos, B&Q, ASDA, Tesco, Morrison’s, Next, Poundland, Sports Division and the list goes on and on, billions in profits are syphoned out of Scotland. In a nutshell GERs is Sh1te. And we really must ask ourselves can we afford to wait 10 years !!

Corporation Tax isn't hidden on the 'Government Expenditure & Review Scotland ("GERS"), it is estimated. From it's methodology statement "GERS apportions a share of UK corporation tax revenues based on the economic activity undertaken in Scotland and not the location of companies' headquarters"

These are the Scottish Government's statistics and their Chief Statistician, Roger Halliday, takes responsibilty for them.

[stewarty27]

Corporation Tax isn't hidden on the 'Government Expenditure & Review Scotland ("GERS"), it is estimated. From it's methodology statement "GERS apportions a share of UK corporation tax revenues based on the economic activity undertaken in Scotland and not the location of companies' headquarters"

These are the Scottish Government's statistics and their Chief Statistician, Roger Halliday, takes responsibilty for them.

Hi Standfree, Thanks for your reply. Your right to say GERs are compiled by the SG. What you don't say is they are set by parameters set by the UK Government. My understanding is Oil&Gas revenues are left off GERs are their seen as a joint asset. Do you think for a minute if the SG were allowed to compile their own figures set by their parameters they would leave off Oil ? And I stand by my corporation tax assertion most of the big companies operating in Scotland pay their taxes directly to London and are not included in Scottish figures. Safe to say in an iScotland these revenues would come to Scotland. If the Naesayers are basing their argument on the GERs figures then bring it on. I honestly believe its a tool(GERs) to hide Scotland's wealth.

[Buc]

Hi Standfree, Thanks for your reply. Your right to say GERs are compiled by the SG. What you don't say is they are set by parameters set by the UK Government. My understanding is Oil&Gas revenues are left off GERs are their seen as a joint asset. Do you think for a minute if the SG were allowed to compile their own figures set by their parameters they would leave off Oil ? And I stand by my corporation tax assertion most of the big companies operating in Scotland pay their taxes directly to London and are not included in Scottish figures. Safe to say in an iScotland these revenues would come to Scotland. If the Naesayers are basing their argument on the GERs figures then bring it on. I honestly believe its a tool(GERs) to hide Scotland's wealth.

Of course it's a tool .
Keeping Scotland down but things are changing in the world of internet .

[Aldo1983]

Nobody knows anything about the finances hence why we are in a ****ing meltdown. It was an opportunity to annoy the Huns.

[Mason89]

There wasn't a single valid economic argument for voting no. It seems obvious now, that most of them are using it to hide their shame.

[Aldo1983]

Plus anyone that slags off the way Nicola looks as an excuse is clearly a Hun in disguise.

[Psaw]

Southern Tory here. You poor saps, Sturgeon is lying to you. Scotland cannot stand on its own two feet and maintain anything near your standard of living. Grow up! Its the Torys keeping you from penury. You cant survive without the UK. There should be some sort of sanction for lying politicians, and some sort of censure for gullible idiots. Like having their vote taken away, or custard pies in the face.

You know who i mean.

TORY AND PROUD. NIGEL.

[Mason89]

Looks like the nawbags have an opportunity to redeem themselves. Surely they won't sell out their country & future generations twice in a row?

[Aldo1983]

I doubt they will now. They might bottle it and pretend they are financial gurus but let's hope they've manned up by now.

[Buc]

I doubt they will now. They might bottle it and pretend they are financial gurus but let's hope they've manned up by now.

The no campaign can't change their tactics . From Westminster to the press to even the posh erm scottish Tories
We will change our tactics and hit them where it will hurt Westminster's loss Scotlands gain free from illegal wars WMD and we will prosper that I'm certain.
Remember once independent it's not the SNP who will take on the mantel it will more likely be labour.
Surely a much better option that the tories for most up here.
We will also be rid of the house of commons now surely that's a good thing .

[StandfreeFM]

Looks like the nawbags have an opportunity to redeem themselves. Surely they won't sell out their country & future generations twice in a row?

Ach, this doesn't mean much, just a pretty obvious attempt keep the more gullible independence supporters onside (much like 'The National Survey' nonsense).

[Buc]

Ach, this doesn't mean much, just a pretty obvious attempt keep the more gullible independence supporters onside (much like 'The National Survey' nonsense).

I would say the unionists are the ones who are indeed gullible.
Much like the unionist rubbish that's spouted out daily that you obviously believe.

[Jupiter]

It's the SNP who are detached from reality, after years of whingeing about independence they still can't tell us what currency we would use.

And the other thing that has always puzzled me about them is that they hate Scotland being ruled from London, but are absolutely gagging for Scotland to be ruled from Brussels. Where's the logic in that?

[Aldo1983]

It's the SNP who are detached from reality, after years of whingeing about independence they still can't tell us what currency we would use.

And the other thing that has always puzzled me about them is that they hate Scotland being ruled from London, but are absolutely gagging for Scotland to be ruled from Brussels. Where's the logic in that?

Currency shmurrency (even though they did come up with that we would use).

I'd rather be ruled from Brussels anyway, it's slightly better.

Can't wait for the referendum! Hope the queen goes as well.

[Jupiter]

Currency shmurrency (even though they did come up with that we would use).

I'd rather be ruled from Brussels anyway, it's slightly better.

Can't wait for the referendum! Hope the queen goes as well.

You'll never win a referendum without a credible plan for a currency. Your flippancy about it sums up the SNP's stupidity.

[Aldo1983]

You'll never win a referendum without a credible plan for a currency. Your flippancy about it sums up the SNP's stupidity.

As credible as your pish about how Nicola sturgeon looks. The kinda pish you probably get on a Huns forum.

[Buc]

You'll never win a referendum without a credible plan for a currency. Your flippancy about it sums up the SNP's stupidity.

It's not down to what you hope for .
And YES we will have currency in place . Maybe if you had hope over fear you'd join us on this new road for our country.
It can't really do no worse than the state that lot of pig headed Westminster MPs who really don't give a dam about the Scottish people.
They treat us as 2nd class citizens that I do know .

[stewarty27]

Ach, this doesn't mean much, just a pretty obvious attempt keep the more gullible independence supporters onside (much like 'The National Survey' nonsense).

Being lifelong supporter of Scottish Independence I find this post a tad condescending, Perhaps you can define a "gullible" Independence supporter for me.

[Mason89]

Voting No means you're voting for Savile. It really is that simple

[Buc]

Voting No means you're voting for Savile. It really is that simple

Yup

[StandfreeFM]

Being lifelong supporter of Scottish Independence I find this post a tad condescending, Perhaps you can define a "gullible" Independence supporter for me.

Someone who distrusts 'Mainstream Media' but accepts every word shat at them by The National, Wings Over Scotland or Scotland for business. They're pretty gullible. I suspect most people are aware the disinformation they are being fed but are content that the end result is the most important thing and it doesn't matter how it is achieved.

Actually 'gullible' was a dig at Mason who has talked about 'cringe' 'shame' 'nawbag' (is that's reference to Bawbag or Sh!tebag?) amongst other things. I voted No. Most of you voted Yes, fair enough, we have different opinions about the Union. Doesn't make us fu(king cowardly.

[StandfreeFM]

Voting No means you're voting for Savile. It really is that simple

Honestly. You don't half post some cr@p.

[StandfreeFM]

Hi Standfree, Thanks for your reply. Your right to say GERs are compiled by the SG. What you don't say is they are set by parameters set by the UK Government. My understanding is Oil&Gas revenues are left off GERs are their seen as a joint asset. Do you think for a minute if the SG were allowed to compile their own figures set by their parameters they would leave off Oil ? And I stand by my corporation tax assertion most of the big companies operating in Scotland pay their taxes directly to London and are not included in Scottish figures. Safe to say in an iScotland these revenues would come to Scotland. If the Naesayers are basing their argument on the GERs figures then bring it on. I honestly believe its a tool(GERs) to hide Scotland's wealth.

That'll be the same GERS statistics used extensively in the 'Scotland's Future' the Scottish Government independence White Paper?

Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true

[Buc]

Someone who distrusts 'Mainstream Media' but accepts every word shat at them by The National, Wings Over Scotland or Scotland for business. They're pretty gullible. I suspect most people are aware the disinformation they are being fed but are content that the end result is the most important thing and it doesn't matter how it is achieved.

Actually 'gullible' was a dig at Mason who has talked about 'cringe' 'shame' 'nawbag' (is that's reference to Bawbag or Sh!tebag?) amongst other things. I voted No. Most of you voted Yes, fair enough, we have different opinions about the Union. Doesn't make us fu(king cowardly.

But loads of people did vote no because they were scared .
But certainly a good number wanted to remain the end result no matter how it was achieved was a loss we accepted that but since that vote there's been huge changes .
Looks like to me we will have a better chance of winning this time.
Remember the YES campaign went from 27% P&J poll if you believe that rag. Or at best 33% generally to indeed taking the lead in the few weeks prior to the vote .that alone was an achievement.
We won't be staring as that low the next time added to that the EU.
I would say the tides turning .

[Aldo1983]

Voting No means you are also voting for Halliday and Orange Walks. Fact.

[StandfreeFM]

Ah, ok.

Enjoy

[Buc]

Ah, ok.

Enjoy

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9622/we-are-very-very-close-independence-angus-robertson-wins-snp16-depute-leadership


We will and I really hope you do SF.

[StandfreeFM]

But loads of people did vote no because they were scared .
But certainly a good number wanted to remain the end result no matter how it was achieved was a loss we accepted that but since that vote there's been huge changes .
Looks like to me we will have a better chance of winning this time.
Remember the YES campaign went from 27% P&J poll if you believe that rag. Or at best 33% generally to indeed taking the lead in the few weeks prior to the vote .that alone was an achievement.
We won't be staring as that low the next time added to that the EU.
I would say the tides turning .

Bit of a sweeping generalisation. I could say loads of grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side morons voted for Yes who thought life is sh!t just now, what do I have to lose. Here, this is fun this game...

"We accepted that". No. No, you didn't.

[StandfreeFM]

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9622/we-are-very-very-close-independence-angus-robertson-wins-snp16-depute-leadership


We will and I really hope you do SF.

Sorry, that was to Aldo. Just realised what his game was (with a little help)

[Mason89]

1827

This is what I'm voting against

[Aldo1983]

Sorry, that was to Aldo. Just realised what his game was (with a little help)

;D team work makes the dream work. Vote Yes 2.

[stewarty27]

Someone who distrusts 'Mainstream Media' but accepts every word shat at them by The National, Wings Over Scotland or Scotland for business. They're pretty gullible. I suspect most people are aware the disinformation they are being fed but are content that the end result is the most important thing and it doesn't matter how it is achieved.

Actually 'gullible' was a dig at Mason who has talked about 'cringe' 'shame' 'nawbag' (is that's reference to Bawbag or Sh!tebag?) amongst other things. I voted No. Most of you voted Yes, fair enough, we have different opinions about the Union. Doesn't make us fu(king cowardly.

That's absolutely fine Standfree, thanks for the explanation. However given the MSM and I include the BBC in that are the forum for the vast majority of Scots would it be fair to refer to them as gullible ? As a fair minded Man will you be happy the MSM and the Unionist they serve are subjected to the rigorous scrutiny they avoided last time. And equally awkward question are asked of them similar to the ones asked of the Yes side last time ? ..A fair crack of the whip this time is all we are asking.

[Mason89]

I have no problem with calling standfreeFM out as a shytebag. I stick to my guns

[Jormungand]

And the other thing that has always puzzled me about them is that they hate Scotland being ruled from London, but are absolutely gagging for Scotland to be ruled from Brussels. Where's the logic in that?

Don't really understand this objection. Does that mean you think every other EU member state is ruled from Brussels? Surely it's the UK that's the anomaly here, nae the other countries of Europe.

[Buc]

;D team work makes the dream work. Vote Yes 2.

Yup.
Team work will do it . Some folk would be best to get rid of their hate for the SNP and see through what an independent country could be and what a part everyone could play in bringing our country forward.
The union isnt working its loosing it's grip on reality.
The most googled thing on the Internet the following day of the brexit vote was what does brexit mean you couldn't make that up.
The media like the daily mail front page hate stories really had a role in that too.
Let's get rid of Westminster let's change things for the better without the mist we will the see where we will go and what can be achieved. I've no doubt about that.

[StandfreeFM]

That's absolutely fine Standfree, thanks for the explanation. However given the MSM and I include the BBC in that are the forum for the vast majority of Scots would it be fair to refer to them as gullible ? As a fair minded Man will you be happy the MSM and the Unionist they serve are subjected to the rigorous scrutiny they avoided last time. And equally awkward question are asked of them similar to the ones asked of the Yes side last time ? ..A fair crack of the whip this time is all we are asking.

There are gullible folk on both sides. That's what happens when you read only what you know is going to support your views. I'm not naive enough not to see that newspapers and the media can have a slant but the National seems to be on a par with Fox News and Russia Today for myopic reporting. And as for 'Main Stream Media' (canna stand that 'Conspiracy Theories' type moniker), the BBC et al have journalistic standards which bloggers previously mentioned simply do not and will not follow.

[StandfreeFM]

Yup.
Team work will do it . Some folk would be best to get rid of their hate for the SNP and see through what an independent country could be and what a part everyone could play in bringing our country forward.
The union isnt working its loosing it's grip on reality.
The most googled thing on the Internet the following day of the brexit vote was what does brexit mean you couldn't make that up.
The media like the daily mail front page hate stories really had a role in that too.
Let's get rid of Westminster let's change things for the better without the mist we will the see where we will go and what can be achieved. I've no doubt about that.

Jeez, I don't hate the SNP. I know it's a cliche but some of my friends are members, some of them very involved. My issue is that the SNP have zealotry focus on independence that overrides everything which includes the governing of the country you and I live in. There is almost no incentive for them to govern effectively as they can do nowt and blame "Westminster" when something goes wrong.

"You couldn't make it up"? Maybe not. But context helps. How many searches were required to produce this result? Fewer than a thousand per day.

[stewarty27]

There are gullible folk on both sides. That's what happens when you read only what you know is going to support your views. I'm not naive enough not to see that newspapers and the media can have a slant but the National seems to be on a par with Fox News and Russia Today for myopic reporting. And as for 'Main Stream Media' (canna stand that 'Conspiracy Theories' type moniker), the BBC et al have journalistic standards which bloggers previously mentioned simply do not and will not follow.

This doesn't answer my point that the vast majority of the Scottish population get their info from the MSM and they are overwhelmingly pro Unionist. As far as I know there are 37 publications in Scotland including regionals. and only 2 of them are supportive of Indy. And the BBC were overtly biased during Indyref1 especially in the days up to the vote. As for journo's "standards" and integrity they do as they're told pure and simple. In fairness to pro indy blogger they ask the question a biased media won't. To be honest I have little time for WoS I don't like Campbells abrasive style. but at the same time the content can be v interesting. Surely we owe it to ourselves to look at all info available to us including the "alternative view" I do hope Standfree you will be opened minded when it comes to Indyref2.

[threestripes]

Voting No means you're voting for Savile. It really is that simple

Bang on.

Vote NO for Nonce.

The Yes Campaign can have that one for nothing.

[Jupiter]

Voting No means you're voting for Savile. It really is that simple

That has to be the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on here.

[stewarty27]

That has to be the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on here.

I suppose if you break it down.. Savile was Mr BBC a lot of his evil deeds were done on BBC premises The BBC covered up his acts knew about them and did nothing.... the BBc are culpable ... The BBC voice of the British Establish on internal and foreign policy was overtly biased during the referendum. Naw right enough it is stupid ;D

[mondo_notion]

bang on.

Vote no for nonce.

The yes campaign can have that one for nothing.

XD

[Buc]

Some reading here about the Butchers Apron


https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/02/446556.html

[threestripes]

That has to be the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on here.

Ah... you're new here eh?

[Disco Buc]

For me I can't see anything nowadays good about the union the quicker we break free from the shackles the better ..

Too we too poor what a load of tosh.

The union flag has nothing but blood on it . But go on keep supporting it.
We are now fighting back and will keep fighting one thing the no campaign can't change tactics we know them very well now.

But the YES campaign will.
I can't see what Scottish people!e born in Scotland prefer to be ruled by Westminster .
We will be successful I'm sure of it.
There's much more to Scotland than oil it's a bonus which we haven't up to now benefited from..

[fatshaft]

Too we too poor what a load of tosh.

Absolutely. I understand Yoon politicians have to use it, it's their thing. I understand English public using it, they've been spoon fed the lie about Scottish handouts and have no media giving them the facts.

But when it comes to full on Scottish cringers, who actually seem to believe that despite every tin pot country in the world seemingly getting on with life, Scotland, and Scotland alone, somehow is incapable of looking after itself and would somehow be "bankrupt"? I just can't understand these people.

[Disco Buc]

Absolutely. I understand Yoon politicians have to use it, it's their thing. I understand English public using it, they've been spoon fed the lie about Scottish handouts and have no media giving them the facts.

But when it comes to full on Scottish cringers, who actually seem to believe that despite every tin pot country in the world seemingly getting on with life, Scotland, and Scotland alone, somehow is incapable of looking after itself and would somehow be "bankrupt"? I just can't understand these people.

Bang on FS.
When we go to Spain for 2-3 months in the spring, our south of the border friends appear to be over the top with what they say about Scotland .

But our our friends in Northern England are much much better with how they feel about the Scottish.

The argument they don't like is that we get more money than them per person they seem to think we get much more money than we put in. The other one is we pay for your university education and your free prescriptions.

But my wife a qualified nurse and brought up in London just says instead of moaning to us why don't you lot ask your government why you arent getting this. Point the finger at them.

I don't like to say this but the deep south are the ones who mostly want rid of us .
I'm very much laid back person but sometimes I can feel rather upset at what these folk say to me..

[Disco Buc]

The UK is one of the most disliked in the world making the top 10 .

Not surprising with that don't give a dam Westminster at the helm.

http://www.thetoptens.com/most-hated-countries/

Ouch :)

[sancho_panza]

The argument they don't like is that we get more money than them per person they seem to think we get much more money than we put in. The other one is we pay for your university education and your free prescriptions.

Saying the UK pays for our tuition fees/prescriptions isn't a valid argument because what we're talking about is the ability of Holyrood to decide to spend its own resources differently from how resources are spent in other parts of the country. It's pointless having devolution of spending powers if Scotland doesn't use its resources differently so there's always going to be something that people can point at and claim the rest of the UK is paying for. Obviously that's nonsense.

However is it fair to say we get more out than we put in? At this point in time that's absolutely the case. The latest figures (2015-16) indicated that we contributed around 7.9% of UK revenue and spent 9.1% of UK spending. See the full GERS figures here (http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Government-Expenditure-Revenue-Scotland-2015-16-294c.aspx). Historically that wasn't always the case and it might well be in future the picture changes, but at this exact moment in time we put in less than we get back in proportionate terms.

Personally I think the case for independence has to start from that point and then explain how things would progress following independence. There's an opportunity to do that because of the impact Brexit will have on the UK economy. But if the case for independence is just to ignore the numbers then it's going to be an incredibly weak one. We can come up with a thousand reasons to do this (too wee, too poor; stop talking the country down; it's all lies/propaganda; other countries survive so why can't we) but it's still a weak argument if you aren't taking the figures head on. The figures will be plastered over posters, raised in every debate, and trumpeted in the media in a way that wasn't the case in 2014 (the SNP actually based its own case in 2014 on GERS as the position was more favourable). Ultimately there has to be a better response than what we've seen so far or the argument simply isn't going to win.

The political case for independence is strong at present. A lot of people, myself included, don't want to be part of a country that's ruled by people like Boris, Liam Fox and David Davis, while Labour are broadly unelectable. Yes would probably win a referendum quite comfortably at this point if the economic argument was 50/50 rather than lopsided in favour of staying in the UK. I'd vote for it myself. So coming up with a real response to that issue (rather than rhetoric) should be the key priority.

[Disco Buc]

Sancho have you a link to that gers figures please.

Edit to say just to see what they take into account.

[Disco Buc]

Here is another take on the gers figures .


http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/question-ask-every-unionist-gers/

[kkong]

Sancho have you a link to that gers figures please.

The link is in the post where it says "here".

[Pacman1903]

The most googled thing on the Internet the following day of the brexit vote was what does brexit mean you couldn't make that up.


Thats hillarious buc (buc 123, disco buc)

[Disco Buc]

Thats hillarious buc (buc 123, disco buc)

Lol.

It's true .:) Aye buc 123 disco buc gee whiz I've forgotten my other one maybe it's just 3 names then .

[Aldo1983]

Absolutely. I understand Yoon politicians have to use it, it's their thing. I understand English public using it, they've been spoon fed the lie about Scottish handouts and have no media giving them the facts.

But when it comes to full on Scottish cringers, who actually seem to believe that despite every tin pot country in the world seemingly getting on with life, Scotland, and Scotland alone, somehow is incapable of looking after itself and would somehow be "bankrupt"? I just can't understand these people.

We would be envious of a country that can produce oil and whisky yet they were used against us for some reason. The most bizarre argument I've ever heard.

[Disco Buc]

We would be envious of a country that can produce oil and whisky yet they were used against us for some reason. The most bizarre argument I've ever heard.

Indeed we can no longer be fooled and ruled by Westminster keeping Scotland down.

Here's a nice read.


http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/gers-deniers.html