The Cleveland "No Names"

[Pacman1903]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639638

This raises its head again. The Cleveland Indians Chief Wahoo is racist. I like baseball and I clung onto the Indians as a nipper (When MLB was on sky) as I thought they had the coolest badge. Being young I did not realise the racist stereotyping that it conveyed. To this day I still watch the Indians on BT Sport and they have a real chance at the World Series. If they beat the Blue Jays they are going there. I have an extensive collection of Indians emblazoned caps. They are the only team I go out my way to watch as well as the Dons

But is it racist? Yes I suppose it is offensive. But I didn't used to be?

My issue with this is its a reasonably new thing to call out the team for racism as the first official case noted was in 1997 a full 87 years since the team formed. Is it a case of the world has gone to PC?, the world has gone soft and more easily offended? they have a point? If they do have a point then why has it only been an issue for 20 years and not 116 years?

Also to add after the way the Native Americans were treated in America its a bit late to stick up for them now

But its not just Cleveland that get stick, The Washington Redskins (NFL) (were even going to change their name recently), The Atlanta Braves (MLB ), Kansas City Chiefs (NFL) and the Chicago Blackhawks (NHL) all get it too

The Chief Wahoo logo is still used but not to the extent it used to be as the uniforms are now emblazoned with the "C" logo.

Thoughts? Most folk probably dinna give a sh@te on here.

Edit-Sh@te wrong forum

[StandfreeFM]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639638

This raises its head again. The Cleveland Indians Chief Wahoo is racist. I like baseball and I clung onto the Indians as a nipper (When MLB was on sky) as I thought they had the coolest badge. Being young I did not realise the racist stereotyping that it conveyed. To this day I still watch the Indians on BT Sport and they have a real chance at the World Series. If they beat the Blue Jays they are going there. I have an extensive collection of Indians emblazoned caps. They are the only team I go out my way to watch as well as the Dons

But is it racist? Yes I suppose it is offensive. But I didn't used to be?

My issue with this is its a reasonably new thing to call out the team for racism as the first official case noted was in 1997 a full 87 years since the team formed. Is it a case of the world has gone to PC?, the world has gone soft and more easily offended? they have a point? If they do have a point then why has it only been an issue for 20 years and not 116 years?

Also to add after the way the Native Americans were treated in America its a bit late to stick up for them now

But its not just Cleveland that get stick, The Washington Redskins (NFL) (were even going to change their name recently), The Atlanta Braves (MLB ), Kansas City Chiefs (NFL) and the Chicago Blackhawks (NHL) all get it too

The Chief Wahoo logo is still used but not to the extent it used to be as the uniforms are now emblazoned with the "C" logo.

Thoughts? Most folk probably dinna give a sh@te on here.

Edit-Sh@te wrong forum

It's tricky. I love going to the US, go over quite often to visit my brother (shout out to G if he's snooping). In my experience the folk there have a funny relationship with Native Americans. A kind of deep seated guilt when the subject is brought up which is extremely rarely. I read something that said the majority of Native Americans in a poll didn't mind the Redskins moniker but that was by the Washington Post so they may have a vested interest (link below but not attached, still to figure this out). My own view is that the Resdskins as a name derives from a term of abuse and so should probably be ditched. Cleveland Indians seems ok in that regard but there is also the issue of cultural appropriation which would be harder to defend.

Anyway, how the playoffs going to go? Was disappointed but completely unsurprised when the Giants bullpen fell apart again. Cleveland were canny as fu(k against the Red Sox, kinda hope they keep it going against the Blue Jays. Anyone but the Dodgers tbh. Cubs still favourites tho.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

[Br0chred]

It's tricky. I love going to the US, go over quite often to visit my brother (shout out to G if he's snooping). In my experience the folk there have a funny relationship with Native Americans. A kind of deep seated guilt when the subject is brought up which is extremely rarely. I read something that said the majority of Native Americans in a poll didn't mind the Redskins moniker but that was by the Washington Post so they may have a vested interest (link below but not attached, still to figure this out). My own view is that the Resdskins as a name derives from a term of abuse and so should probably be ditched. Cleveland Indians seems ok in that regard but there is also the issue of cultural appropriation which would be harder to defend.

Anyway, how the playoffs going to go? Was disappointed but completely unsurprised when the Giants bullpen fell apart again. Cleveland were canny as fu(k against the Red Sox, kinda hope they keep it going against the Blue Jays. Anyone but the Dodgers tbh. Cubs still favourites tho.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html


I would agree with you Stand Free that Redskins should be ditched, which is a pity as my American Football team is the redskins and I chose them as they had "Red" in their name (and a WR called Charlie Brown and liked snoopy at that age)

[StandfreeFM]

I would agree with you Stand Free that Redskins should be ditched, which is a pity as my American Football team is the redskins and I chose them as they had "Red" in their name (and a WR called Charlie Brown and liked snoopy at that age)

As good a reason as any. I chose the Jets because of The Wonder Years. That wee pr!ck Fred Savage has cursed me to a lifetime of disappointment...

[Pacman1903]

Anyway, how the playoffs going to go? Was disappointed but completely unsurprised when the Giants bullpen fell apart again. Cleveland were canny as fu(k against the Red Sox, kinda hope they keep it going against the Blue Jays. Anyone but the Dodgers tbh. Cubs still favourites tho.

]

I would love to see the Indians get there but any of the 4 can win it. I was in San Diego on season open day 2 years ago and the Padres were playing the Dodgers and all the bars were stowed out with Dodger fans and I found them to be obnoxious loud mouth pr@cks. The only pr@cks I met in three weeks of being in that neck of the woods. So for that f@ck the Dodgers

I cant watch any of the playoffs as streaming out here doesn't work and just by sods law I will be in the air on route to Amsterdam on way home when the final game of the World Series is on. So I miss the lot.Gutted

[Skacel]

Let's just call them the Cleveland Steamers.

[Br0chred]

As good a reason as any. I chose the Jets because of The Wonder Years. That wee pr!ck Fred Savage has cursed me to a lifetime of disappointment...

But they play in green?????

[Skacel]

Steelers or Falcons for the Superbowl. Calling it now B)

Or Vikings just because their D-Fence looks awesome.

[Hewitt_Scores]

Pac- interesting thought. I am an Indians fan principally because of the film Major League, and I have several caps etc as I like the logo. Find it difficult to come to a real conclusion, as My over-riding opinion is that the world has gone OTT re political correctness, but cannot ignore where the Native American has been wronged. I am not sure the logo or Indians name are offensive (tho who am I to judge!) but agree with the above that the Redskins can more clearly be seen as inappropriate. Really hope the Indians can make the World Series.

[Pacman1903]

I asked my yank/mexican room mate what his views were and he couldn't care less and its a case of the world going soft. He also pointed out that the people who get offended by this are usually Caucasian and its not the Natives themselves. Polls have been held and they don't care

He was also telling me that where he went to high school, the hand egg team were called the "Cotton Pickers" due to the rich cotton tradition in the town (Texas somewhere). There was no slavery ever in his town and all walks of life worked in the cotton fields, but the name was deemed racist by a group of soft c@nts. So much so that there was a movement to get the name changed. It was a big story was on ESPN and made national news. So the vote went ahead with the towns people and former pupils allowed to vote for change or no change. 98% were in favour of keeping the name. Up yours PC police.

But again this had been the team name for decades but only recently it was deemed racist(even without any slavery background to it).

He also told me BP had a rig in the Gulf of Mexico called the Crazy Horse and so many people complained about it BP got sick of it and changed it to the Thunder Horse.

[InversneckieDob]

I heard that, due to the extreme distastefulness and negative connotations, The Washington Redskins were changing their name.




To "The District of Columbia Redskins".





I'm here all week....etc.

[Pacman1903]

Cleveland up 1-0. B)

Second game at 9 tonight

[Buc]

Aye I saw some of that on Al-Jazeera news last night.
Very interesting it was too still don't know enough to make a good comment.

[Pacman1903]

Im going to see if streaming works in the office. Doesnt on the recreation wifi

Go Indians

[EdmontonDandy]

Aye it's a tricky one, a Redskins fan masel but it wouldn't bother me if they changed the name, maybe a bit different with The Indians though. Anyway to the game today, been in Canada 28 years now but was an Expos fan mare than a Jays fan. Having said that supporting the Jays all the way here, really put the boots to the Texas Huns in the last round. Happ pitching today coming off a 20 win season and with the Jays hitting power I believe they'll go back home 1-1 and take the series in 6.

[Brian Grantland]

I heard that, due to the extreme distastefulness and negative connotations, The Washington Redskins were changing their name.




To "The District of Columbia Redskins".





I'm here all week....etc.

that would be factually incorrect, as a man of your knowledge should know, in the same way that your 'New York' Giants are actually the New Jersey Giants

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/MetLife+Stadium/@40.8128397,-74.0742091,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x8184280d31051734!8m2!3d40.81 28397!4d-74.0742091

[InversneckieDob]

that would be factually incorrect, as a man of your knowledge should know, in the same way that your 'New York' Giants are actually the New Jersey Giants

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/MetLife+Stadium/@40.8128397,-74.0742091,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x8184280d31051734!8m2!3d40.81 28397!4d-74.0742091

I think you missed the point if my wee attempt at a joke there Chief.

[Pacman1903]

Indians win 2-1 last night

http://i67.tinypic.com/34oc7df.png

Chief Wahoo likes this

[StandfreeFM]

Andrew Miller and those sliders...

[Pacman1903]

3-1 Cleveland. Blue Jays pulled one back last night

[StandfreeFM]

Ach, it'll make it all the sweeter when they win the Pennant in front of their own fans in Game 6.

Cubbies forgotton how to bat in the NLCS. Dodgers leading 2-1. Kershaw slated for Game 5 so reckon Cubs need to win tonight.

[Pacman1903]

Heading to the World Series B)

[sancho_panza]

I quite often tune out of baseball when the playoffs are on (a combination of real football/yank football starting up again and following the Mariners who haven't made the playoffs since 2001) but this year it's been a bit different. The Cubs/Dodgers series in particular is pretty gripping.

If anyone is vaguely interested in the sport and has never done it before I'd definitely recommend going out there and travelling around watching games in different stadiums. Something about it is almost like watching extinct animals still in their pomp - I feel like a sport like baseball can't survive in the modern world before it's overtaken by more glitzy alternatives, but it's still there going strong, all the traditions, chatting to old timers in the stadiums who have been watching the game since they were kids and are usually over the moon that some foreigner has come out to watch it, the history in places like Fenway and Wrigley... just brilliant.

Bored the absolute sh*te out of my girlfriend right enough.

[Brian Grantland]

On the topic of baseball

1931

shinnie lookalike kevin pillar

[Pacman1903]

On the topic of baseball

1931

shinnie lookalike kevin pillar

Brilliant. At least Graeme got to a final today after the disappointment of nae making the World Series

[Pacman1903]

Chicago Cubs it is. 'mon the Indians

[StandfreeFM]

Cubs in 5

[Brian Grantland]

Chicago Cubs it is. 'mon the Indians

there has been a campaign to get ricky vaughn to throw out the first pitch, looks to be a no

[ragnarok]

I asked my yank/mexican room mate what his views were and he couldn't care less and its a case of the world going soft. He also pointed out that the people who get offended by this are usually Caucasian and its not the Natives themselves. Polls have been held and they don't care.

Don't forget that grievance has now been professionalised. When folk are making a living out of grievance do you think they have any interest in addressing the underlying societal issues or do you think they benefit from generating as much grievance as possible? And yes, they are usually white.

[Hewitt_Scores]

They ought to go for that!!

[dandies_on_tour]

Pacman - Was in Toronto in time of the games - could not get ticket. But the game was almost postponed. A Toronto Citizen launched a court case banning Cleveland from Toronto due to the Racism in there name. Went to court. Wanted them banned from Toronto. Judge threw the case out.
Saying that Toronto was totally mad at time of all matches everywhere stopped when the games were on. Bars and tvs everywhere were full of the match.


I asked my yank/mexican room mate what his views were and he couldn't care less and its a case of the world going soft. He also pointed out that the people who get offended by this are usually Caucasian and its not the Natives themselves. Polls have been held and they don't care

He was also telling me that where he went to high school, the hand egg team were called the "Cotton Pickers" due to the rich cotton tradition in the town (Texas somewhere). There was no slavery ever in his town and all walks of life worked in the cotton fields, but the name was deemed racist by a group of soft c@nts. So much so that there was a movement to get the name changed. It was a big story was on ESPN and made national news. So the vote went ahead with the towns people and former pupils allowed to vote for change or no change. 98% were in favour of keeping the name. Up yours PC police.

But again this had been the team name for decades but only recently it was deemed racist(even without any slavery background to it).

He also told me BP had a rig in the Gulf of Mexico called the Crazy Horse and so many people complained about it BP got sick of it and changed it to the Thunder Horse.

[Skacel]

Mon the Cubbies. BTTF was nearly right when it said it was 2015 :O

[Pacman1903]

Boooooo the cubs

[StandfreeFM]

Heading to the World Series B)

Tribe win Game 1 behind Kluber.

[Pacman1903]

Just got up to the good news.

Good start

[Pacman1903]

Cubs win second game 5-1 :mad:

[Pacman1903]

2-1 Indians after a 1-0 win (and record breaking 5th playoff shut out) last night

[Jupiter]

Only 1 run, that must have been a really dull game.

[Pacman1903]

Only 1 run, that must have been a really dull game.

A wins a win in the World Series min

[Pacman1903]

http://i66.tinypic.com/w2gkyw.jpg

Hud that Cubs

7-2 the tribe and 3-1 up in the series

[Pacman1903]

Next game 00.15 Monday morning our time

[Pacman1903]

Balls. 3-2 Cubs this morning

3-2 Indians heading back to Cleveland on tomorrow morning

Eddie Vedder did the take did "take me out to the ball game" this morning. Legend

[deaconred]

Will be devastated for the Cubs if Cleveland win. They've been the best team all year, great loyal fanbase. It's not all over yet though. Go Cubbies.

[Pacman1903]

Piss off Cubbies.

The 107 year wait will turn into 108

'mon the Tribe

[sancho_panza]

I don't mind the Cubs, but I hope they lose nonetheless just to preserve the streak of failure. I remember wanting the Red Sox to win in 2004 to break the curse, but the second they did win the World Series they became almost as contemptible as the Yankees. I prefer the Cubs as the perennial losers.

[deaconred]

Piss off Cubbies.

The 107 year wait will turn into 108

'mon the Tribe

I've kept really quiet but I'll tell you something, you went down in my estimations when you said that. We're still fighting for this title and Cleveland Whatevers have still got to do something to win it.
And I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them. Love it.

(with no apologies to Kevin Keegan)

A Beer says Cubbies Pacman.

[Pacman1903]

I've kept really quiet but I'll tell you something, you went down in my estimations when you said that. We're still fighting for this title and Cleveland Whatevers have still got to do something to win it.
And I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them. Love it.

(with no apologies to Kevin Keegan)

A Beer says Cubbies Pacman.

Its deal mate

[deaconred]

good man!

[Pacman1903]

A crate of 7 Giraffes will do pal

[Pacman1903]

F@ck sake the capitulation is on. Cubs win 9-3 taking the series to the 7th game

[deaconred]

I dont even have a clue what a crate of giraffes is/are!

Got up early to watch the recording. Cleveland let down by poor starting pitching.

Apparently there are now thousands of Chicagoans (?) heading to Cleveland for game 7. The price of tickets for game 7 rocketed after the first innings yesterday, then again after the second to levels unheard of for a baseball game in Cleveland. Hotels are charging $700 for $50 rooms.

Exciting.

[Pacman1903]

F@ck f@ck f@ck

Cubs Champions after a thrilling 8-7 final game

Gutted

[ByeByeScum2012]

F@ck f@ck f@ck

Cubs Champions after a thrilling 8-7 final game

Gutted

Some game.

The Cleveland Hibs

[Pacman1903]

Some game.

The Cleveland Hibs

Surely the Cubs are more like Hibs as they hadnt won it in a lifetime+ and now have

[ByeByeScum2012]

Surely the Cubs are more like Hibs as they hadnt won it in a lifetime+ and now have

Decent argument for both I suppose. Must go down as the best WS Game 7 of all time though

[Pacman1903]

Decent argument for both I suppose. Must go down as the best WS Game 7 of all time though

I landed at Schipol during the tenth. Was gutted with the outcome but watched the highlights. A sporting spectacle.

[sancho_panza]

The game 7 in 2001 was pretty good - back in the old days of baseball on Channel 5, Mariano Rivera in his prime blowing the game with a walk off bloop single. But last night was probably up there with it for me.

[Pacman1903]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/sports/baseball/cleveland-indians-chief-wahoo-logo.html

Well well. The PC brigade have won. From next season the Cleveland Indians will ditch their famous Chief Wahoo that has been their insignia since 1948. Was it racist then. Was it f@ck, I chose them as my team approx. 25 years ago when MLB was on Sky Sports. The reason I thought the had the coolest badge. Was it racist then. Was it f@ck. So why is it racist now, because the world is too politically correct in this day in age.

It is not racist today either. The reason. Racism is surely only racism if the race themselves are bothered by it and in the case of American sports teams Native Americans don't give a f@ck. There are various, interviews, polls, articles and tv debates to prove they don't. The people who rock up outside Progressive Field in Cleveland are not Natives they are what is wrong with the world today. It pisses me off as they are the descendants of c@nts who wiped out a large percentage of the the Natives. If they are so inclined to stick up for them then give them their land back. Leave the country. Aye I thought not.

So now with one war won they will be gunning for more and it looks to be the Washington Redskins who are constantly under pressure to rebrand. Look out Kansas City Chiefs, Chicago Blackhawks, Atlanta Braves, the PC brigade will be heading your way

How long until this sh@t hits Football, Colo Colo? Kaizer Chiefs? Deportivo W@nka?




http://i68.tinypic.com/rjr4tc.jpg

Long live Chief Wahoo.



Edit- I forgot this was posted in the wrong place originally. I'm a fud

[Aldo1983]

Can we still watch Major League and Major League 2?

[Mason89]

Was it racist then. Was it f@ck. So why is it racist now, because the world is too politically correct in this day in age.


Bit like the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Dukes of Hazard was on for 7 seasons & no one gave a f*ck. One loon ball shoots up a church & all of a sudden it represents slavery & racism

People are odd balls, especially the ones that shoot up churches. The reaction is bizarre though

[Jupiter]

Typical snowflakes, getting upset about trivial stuff and ignoring more important things.

[Pacman1903]

I see the PC pricks are nae finished and want the team to totally rebrand dropping the Indians from their name. Also riddiculously dropping the red peaks on their caps. Imagine if they knew what the red on sevcos socks meant

#allforchiefwahoo

[Pacman1903]

Made it to the Post Season for 4th year running (inclusive of 3 ALC Divisions)

This year fingers crossed. Tribe rule

[StandfreeFM]

Made it to the Post Season for 4th year running (inclusive of 3 ALC Divisions)

This year fingers crossed. Tribe rule

Well done Cleveland. I suppose it does help when you play in the worst division in MLB however. Against teams in their division, the went 43-23. Against non-divisional teams they are 40-43.

[deaconred]

Made it to the Post Season for 4th year running (inclusive of 3 ALC Divisions)

This year fingers crossed. Tribe rule

I think they are going to be the weakest in the AL post season. Red Sox, Astros and Yankees all better. As it stands it looks like Cleveland will play the Astros with the winner of the wild card (Yankees Oakland) playing Boston. That'll give a Boston Astros match and the winner will go on to win the World Series against the Cubs. Would like to see the Yankees beat the Red Sox though and, if they do, they can go all the way.

[Pacman1903]

If Portugal can win the Euros then the Indians can do this

[Red Zone]

If Portugal can win the Euros then the Indians can do this

You never know but not sure their starting pitchers will be quite up to the standard of Astros, Red Sox

[Pacman1903]

Astros 7-2 Indians in game one

[Red Zone]

Astros 7-2 Indians in game one

Yeah, it's going to be real tough for them I'm afraid as that was with Cleveland's best pitcher. Astros and Red Sox still looking the best two teams

[Pacman1903]

Game 2

Astros 3 - 1 Indians

[Red Zone]

Game 2

Astros 3 - 1 Indians

Yeah going to be very difficult for Indians now albeit next two games in Cleveland

[deaconred]

Astros look too strong.

Yankees will hump them tho.

[deaconred]

I did a tour of Fenway a few years ago and really couldn't believe how far away home base looked from the Green Monster wall. I actually asked the guide if there was a "home run" line somewhere below the seating area as I felt it impossible that anyone could hit a baseball so far.

I've just watched (on TV) Gary Sanchez hit the ball clean out of the stadium over the Monster. Jeez.

[Pacman1903]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/cleveland-indians-to-change-team-name-here-are-some-of-the-best-options-including-spiders-and-rockers/amp/

And there it is............. .

[Aldo1983]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/cleveland-indians-to-change-team-name-here-are-some-of-the-best-options-including-spiders-and-rockers/amp/

And there it is............. .

About time.

[Skacel]

Let's just call them the Cleveland Steamers.

4 years ago ^^^

Now is the time!

[Mason89]

There’s a campaign to change the Vancouver Canucks badge too. How you can cultural appropriate a killer whale is anyone’s guess

[Aldo1983]

17790

[Jupiter]

How about the Cleveland Pant Pishers for caving in to the woke PC zoomers

[Aldo1983]

How about the Cleveland Pant Pishers for caving in to the woke PC zoomers

Why change the name to cave into the woke PC zoomers then change the name to offend them? You've not thought this through have you?

[Br0chred]

I'm as left wing as they come but can't help being disappointed that the Redskins are now WTF, sorry WFT.

[Jupiter]

Why change the name to cave into the woke PC zoomers then change the name to offend them? You've not thought this through have you?

I was making fun of them for caving in to the zoomers

[Aldo1983]

I was making fun of them for caving in to the zoomers

I was making fun of you. Zoomer.

[Aldo1983]

Now known as the Guardians.

Wonder what Jupiter has to say about this...

[Jupiter]

More like Cleveland Guardian readers.

[Aldo1983]

More like Cleveland Guardian readers.

XD

Good effort.

[Basingstokered]

Bet they’ll have a real fun mascot.

Wonder what Washington new name will be

[redscot]

Now known as the Guardians.

Wonder what Jupiter has to say about this...


Does it make you feel all fuzzy inside in your wee PC bubble? XD

[Jussi]

Did the teams take the knee last night ?
I missed the start.

[InversneckieDob]

Did the teams take the knee last night ?
I missed the start.

No, I was bitterly disappointed.
Ethically I'm largely ambivalent.

But it seems to wind up certain types of people I enjoy seeing wound up.

[Mason89]

I hate seeing people take the knee, unless it’s in front of royalty.
Know your place, c*nts

[KIWIRED]

I hate seeing people take the knee, unless it’s in front of royalty.
Know your place, c*nts
It's run its course now, it's getting boring
It was a trending thing to at the time
I am over It
BLM of course they do but let's not go overboard a football match

[Mason89]

Not sure you get to decide if it’s ran it’s course or not

[Basingstokered]

It’s now claimed the the Chiefs mascot, warpaint will no longer be galloping up the sideline after a chiefs touchdown.

[Aldo1983]

It’s now claimed the the Chiefs mascot, warpaint will no longer be galloping up the sideline after a chiefs touchdown.

I'm so offended by this.

[neilthedon]

I'm so offended by this.

Maybe if they also had a construction Worker, a Traffic Cop and a Cowboy , all with big moustaches running alongside he Chief,......ah. Probably not ?!