Is BREXIT F * C K E D?

[mickd1961]

I think it probably is.

There's no way Theresa May can go into negotiations now.....if her or Corbyn enter into the discussion room with Juncker and the rest of them we will get butt f k d by the Europeans.

It's the youth vote that has seen this election result happen and Labour know this and will want to keep the kids happy as they are the strength of that party now so I wouldn't be surprised to see either another BREXIT vote next year OR a very soft BREXIT with full and free movement of people still allowed.

What an unholy f c k up the "Liberal Elite" and career politicians have made of the last few months and years.

I don't like Corbyn and his politics at all but I take my hat off to him for his campaign.

There's no secret to it really,if you offer people giveaways and free cash they're likely to vote for you,students don't want to pay for their education and neither do their parents,most people want everything for nothing and so after years of austerity this is appealing.

Prepare yourself for the non existent BREXIT.

[rambaggie]

As these kids who voted labour grow older, they will wonder why they are paying so much tax when they finally pick up their first real wage packets. And people want 16 year olds to vote! I was still into subbuteo at that age. Can someone please turn the lights out when they leave.

[WBA123]

Similarly if you offer people no hope for the future, no clear future directives without insulting the other side or any palpable change. Then you can't be surprised with the end result.

Just as you are blaming the 'Liberal Elites', I could just as easily blame the 'Extreme Right Wingers' who voted for Brexit which in reality created this chaos we are in now. It started a chain of events where Cameron reisgned, Our economy shrank, U-Turn Theresa took over and triggered article 50 and then called an election, how dumb is that? She did it purely in her own and her party's interest, not in the national interest.

She's a shambles and should resign immedietely.

[mickd1961]

Similarly if you offer people no hope for the future, no clear future directives without insulting the other side or any palpable change. Then you can't be surprised with the end result.

Just as you are blaming the 'Liberal Elites', I could just as easily blame the 'Extreme Right Wingers' who voted for Brexit which in reality created this chaos we are in now. It started a chain of events where Cameron reisgned, Our economy shrank, U-Turn Theresa took over and triggered article 50 and then called an election, how dumb is that? She did it purely in her own and her party's interest, not in the national interest.

She's a shambles and should resign immedietely.

Liberal Elite also inhabit Labour,it's not exclusive to the Tory Party.

I agree with much of your other musings though.

Bottom line is the fact that Cameron was pathetic when negotiating a better deal with the Europeans.

At the end of the day it's the free movement of people that has created this situation,nothing more and nothing less.

I expect free movement to now continue but it creates an interesting question concerning the youngsters who voted Labour yesterday,in 10-15 years from now when another 3-4 million people are living here and their youngsters are struggling to get school places and public services are under further pressure will they think back to today?

Nobody ever asks politicians the most important question about migration and that is......"even if we only allow 250,000 a year into Britain in 100 years there will be another 25 million people plus their children and in 400 years there will be another 100 million migrants plus their children so where do we put them all?

It has to stop at some point,we are an island so can you tell me 123 in which year we have to put an end to it because you can't out a quart in a pint pot?

250,000 a year for ever and ever!!??

[albion68]

As these kids who voted labour grow older, they will wonder why they are paying so much tax when they finally pick up their first real wage packets. And people want 16 year olds to vote! I was still into subbuteo at that age. Can someone please turn the lights out when they leave. yes ram very true.
I think corbyn has conned the younger generation, with free this and free that and the other,end of the day WE will all have to pay. Thers no such thing as a free meal.if something to good to be true it usually is.

[WBA123]

Liberal Elite also inhabit Labour,it's not exclusive to the Tory Party.

I agree with much of your other musings though.

Bottom line is the fact that Cameron was pathetic when negotiating a better deal with the Europeans.

At the end of the day it's the free movement of people that has created this situation,nothing more and nothing less.

I expect free movement to now continue but it creates an interesting question concerning the youngsters who voted Labour yesterday,in 10-15 years from now when another 3-4 million people are living here and their youngsters are struggling to get school places and public services are under further pressure will they think back to today?

Nobody ever asks politicians the most important question about migration and that is......"even if we only allow 250,000 a year into Britain in 100 years there will be another 25 million people plus their children and in 400 years there will be another 100 million migrants plus their children so where do we put them all?

It has to stop at some point,we are an island so can you tell me 123 in which year we have to put an end to it because you can't out a quart in a pint pot?

250,000 a year for ever and ever!!??

Well I don't see free movement of people within the EU as a big issue. Its proven that Europeans who do come here largely work and pay taxes and contribute to society and the economy, which helps towards the upkeep of healthcare and educational services. It is also a fact that me or you could live and work in another 27 countries under the current freedom of movement laws.

Free movement of people within Europe isn't the issue, most of the people who come here and do not contribute to the system are from outside of the EU. And us leaving the EU won't change the amount of people who come here from Somalia or Eritrea for example.

Closing the border will not help us improve our economy, many industries will fail without certain groups of migrants both skilled and unskilled. So we need a managed system.

250,000 people net is manageable in the foreseeable years, particularly if they are all working, contributing to society and the economy and it makes our country more prosperous. 100 years is a long time Mick and economies change, so I would expect there to be other superpowers globally or even in Europe where many migrants may be able to move to. Don't deprive our future generations the opportunity to travel, work, live, love and enjoy other countries and other cultures.

Brexit, in my opnion, internationally isolates us and makes us worse off. I'd like the UK to be a respected member of the international community with a booming economy. I think Brexit takes us further away from being in that position.

[Leicesterbaggie]

The political pundits are pouring over the election results as to the reasons why we are in the situation we are in. As far as I'm concerned the main reason is the 'young vote', not for any altruistic reasons but purely and simply because Corbyn has promised to right off their debts and not to charge tuition fees. Let's be honest, if I was an 18 year old about to go to University or a thirty year old who has a £30,000 debt I'd be voting for him! The big question is, where's he going to get the money from??? This is along with all the other 'goodies' he's promising. He states he's budgeted for it. Did he go to the Diane Abbott School of Maths?

I will admit that the Tories didn't run a good campaigne but I think Theresa May is right to continue as there are no other serious options. What a lot of people forget is that she did win 62 more seats than Labour! As for the Labour Party wanting to form a government, they're living 'La la Land'.

[WBA123]

I'm amazed we are where we are, didn't think there was a chance of a hung parliament until the exit polls last night.

Truthfully, it is a mess. And you have to say Theresa May was the key contributor to where we are now. I agree with you Labour probably fell a few seats short of being able to form a government.

As a die hard Tory LB, can I ask you if you are happy with TM negotiating Brexit?

In terms of the financials of Labours manifesto, it was costed and clearly thought through. I can't say the same for the Tory one, they completely took voters for granted and are paying the price for it.

[rambaggie]

I think the only thing we agree on is that whoever runs the country must must put Britain and all its people first. Not just the elite or the dole scroungers but everyone. At least the SNP have had their wings clipped in this election.

[Leicesterbaggie]

I'm amazed we are where we are, didn't think there was a chance of a hung parliament until the exit polls last night.

Truthfully, it is a mess. And you have to say Theresa May was the key contributor to where we are now. I agree with you Labour probably fell a few seats short of being able to form a government.

As a die hard Tory LB, can I ask you if you are happy with TM negotiating Brexit?

In terms of the financials of Labours manifesto, it was costed and clearly thought through. I can't say the same for the Tory one, they completely took voters for granted and are paying the price for it.

I am a die hard Tory now but I have voted Labour in the past, mind you that was pre Tony Blair. To answer your question, of course I'm happy for Theresa May to negotiate. Who else? Just because we have a hung parliament it doesn't alter my opinions of Corbyn and his far left cronies. They aren't ready for it and the Tories are. As I 've said before, the only reason Corbyn did so well are his fantasy promises to all and sundry. It's very easy to run a country when you're not in power and promise the world. Wake up Britain and don't fall for his 'jackanories'.

[stripes39]

I think it probably is.

There's no way Theresa May can go into negotiations now.....if her or Corbyn enter into the discussion room with Juncker and the rest of them we will get butt f k d by the Europeans.

It's the youth vote that has seen this election result happen and Labour know this and will want to keep the kids happy as they are the strength of that party now so I wouldn't be surprised to see either another BREXIT vote next year OR a very soft BREXIT with full and free movement of people still allowed.

What an unholy f c k up the "Liberal Elite" and career politicians have made of the last few months and years.

I don't like Corbyn and his politics at all but I take my hat off to him for his campaign.

There's no secret to it really,if you offer people giveaways and free cash they're likely to vote for you,students don't want to pay for their education and neither do their parents,most people want everything for nothing and so after years of austerity this is appealing.

Prepare yourself for the non existent BREXIT.

I agree with much of what you say here. After this last round of events I find myself becoming indifferent to the whole political spectrum in the UK. May was a lacklustre performer in this campaign and the Tory manifesto targetted cuts against many of its traditional voters. The terrorist incidents didnt help May as this gave Labour plenty of license to hit out at Police cuts.

As for Corbyn, I think he's fairly genuine even if I wouldn't vote for him. In life people often get what they deserve. The way I'm feeling as we pick up the pieces from this fu*k*ng mess we are in, I almost couldn't care less. Let him implement his policies when the time comes, and let the kids who were seduced by the abolition of tuition fees, increased benefits, cheap public transport etc together with the borrowing of untold billions, let them face the chickens as they come home to roost in a few years time. They will realise that if they aren't paying for all of these handouts now, then someone else is.

It's getting to a point for me where we all get what we deserve, a pile of disingenuous career politicians who despite embarrassing themselves routinely in the media, keep getting voted in.

[holmleighchris]

I can't see how Brexit can't go ahead. The people of the country voted for it and it is up to the government to do the bidding of the people. If it does not happen then democracy in this country is dead.

[WBA123]

I can't see how Brexit can't go ahead. The people of the country voted for it and it is up to the government to do the bidding of the people. If it does not happen then democracy in this country is dead.

I think it will still go ahead, its just that each person's perception of Brexit varies wildly. Does this mean we stay in the single market, do we stay in the customs union, do we stay in the ECHR?

Lots to discuss, it was a referendum vote which was a simple Yes/No but there was a lot of grey areas that weren't covered. Again, it was poor decision making from our politicians which lead us here.

[talkSAFT]

I don't understand why, 40+ years ago when we joined, that there weren't any conditions laid down should the Country decide to exit.
Surely every EU Country should get an annual Statement showing what's in the EU kitty, and how much it would cost them to exit.
What if every Nation one-by-one comes out? It could leave a whopping great surplus in the last man (say) Belgium's favour (along with a couple of million refugees)!

Shouldn't Dave have made tentative enquiries before the Referendum, so that the Public could make its mind up with full knowledge, instead of The Unintelligent Boris telling us all there would be £350m pw savings. (He, and other MPs who lie to the Public, should be imprisoned).
And a lot of people (myself included) made assumptions that we would get no more Euro Immigrants - this Country is full up to the brim, unless we want This Green and Pleasant Land to be one huge housing estate.

[stripes39]

I don't get this thing about a 'hard' and 'soft' Brexit. Prior to the vote last year, numerous Brexiteers are on record as saying a vote to leave would mean leaving the Single Market. It was very clear that if we want control of our borders and the ability to restrict movement of people then the EU will not allow us access to the Single Market. We are the outcasts as we've opted to leave the club so why on earth will the EU allow us access to the single market which will only entice other dissatisfied countries to do the same?

According to former Chancellor Nigel Lawson, the Single Market is not a big deal as weighted trade tarifs average 3% which does not stop the US, Canada and many countries outside the EU trading with Europe. So, Lawson's point was there is only one Brexit where we are not in the Single Market but where we control our borders, live by our own self-imposed laws and we carry on trading.

I'm disallusioned with it all tbh. May has displayed the same arrogance as Cameron is assuming that the public will give her what she wanted in a referendum. We MIGHT get Brexit IMO but I think there will be another election first and the end (Brexit) result will be a grossly watered down affair by the liberal elite and not at all what many of us thought we voted for. Sadly, history shows that in cases where the population has voted against Europe such as the Irish with The Lisbon Treaty, the result gets overidden by the elite who ask them to vote again until they get the result they want.

I think prior to Brexit though, we are in the midst of one almighty f8ck up by our politicians on all sides and at the moment I can only see uncertainty ahead due to so many low calibre career politicians making poor decisions and judgments that have landed us in this mess.

[WBA53]

i for one dont think its f00ked but having said that Cameron is the culprit here for not wording the referendum right.we will leave the EU but the final terms could be anything because of him