London fire

[soulman101]

Such a tragic loss of lives.Profit before safety?
Can't beleave that nobody brought the safety issues of this product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQLIlIetDM

[soulman101]

£2 a panel for the fire proof cladding,they saved or should i say made an extra £5k profit. https://uk.yahoo.com/news/just-5000-fireproof-cladding-fitted-grenfell-tower-092130350.html

[regis80]

It absolutely shocks me that there has not been a single response to this thread about this tragic incident in London. Have we really got to such a low level of inhumanity that had this incident happened in a predominately white neighborhood we'd have more outcry on here?

I really hope that those responsible and guilty of this tragedy face the full wrath of the law. People before profit, never should it be the other way round!

[WBA123]

It absolutely shocks me that there has not been a single response to this thread about this tragic incident in London. Have we really got to such a low level of inhumanity that had this incident happened in a predominately white neighborhood we'd have more outcry on here?

I really hope that those responsible and guilty of this tragedy face the full wrath of the law. People before profit, never should it be the other way round!

I've purposely stayed away from the subject on here Regis because it's a tragedy and I wasnt sure its appropriate saying what I felt from a political viewpoint. But maybe I should, ultimately heads will roll and an inquest will find where the failures are. I don't think people haven't responded because of anything to do with race or wealth. Two things that spring to my mind immedietely are;

1. Our current govt are so keen on cutting everything that its obvious that we as a society will not be as safe than when they came into power in 2010. If you cut thousands upon thousands of police, nurses, doctors and firefighters...we will live in a more unsafe world. Thats a given

2. What always bugs me, is when I read or hear people talk about 'red tape'. Yes, we all have health, safety and other rules to follow in virtually every job, and yes they can be a massive pain in the arse. But guess what, 'Red Tape' is there for a reason and its usually to prevent accidents and save lives. So think about that next time you hear a politician talking about it, or a newspaper tells you there is too much regulation involved in something.

I only hope lessons are learned and nothing like this happens again. Unfortunately we have already had warnings with two other fires in high rise flats in London and the results were 'recommendations' for management companies. Lets hope this time they take it a bit more seriously

[Albionic68]

I've purposely stayed away from the subject on here Regis because it's a tragedy and I wasnt sure its appropriate saying what I felt from a political viewpoint. But maybe I should, ultimately heads will roll and an inquest will find where the failures are. I don't think people haven't responded because of anything to do with race or wealth. Two things that spring to my mind immedietely are;

1. Our current govt are so keen on cutting everything that its obvious that we as a society will not be as safe than when they came into power in 2010. If you cut thousands upon thousands of police, nurses, doctors and firefighters...we will live in a more unsafe world. Thats a given

2. What always bugs me, is when I read or hear people talk about 'red tape'. Yes, we all have health, safety and other rules to follow in virtually every job, and yes they can be a massive pain in the arse. But guess what, 'Red Tape' is there for a reason and its usually to prevent accidents and save lives. So think about that next time you hear a politician talking about it, or a newspaper tells you there is too much regulation involved in something.

I only hope lessons are learned and nothing like this happens again. Unfortunately we have already had warnings with two other fires in high rise flats in London and the results were 'recommendations' for management companies. Lets hope this time they take it a bit more seriously

Very damning news regarding a failure to act on the Lakanal Report (2013) which was compiled following the fire at Lakanal Tower in 2009 (Lambeth) .

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/kensington-chelsea/government-sat-on-tower-fire-report-four-years/

Coroner's recommendations following the Lakanal Inquiry linked below.

https://tinyurl.com/yac6tpev

As stated by Soulman, fire retardant cladding would only have cost £5,000 more.

https://tinyurl.com/ydgogswu

Terrible, terrible and needless tragedy.

[Albionic68]

It absolutely shocks me that there has not been a single response to this thread about this tragic incident in London. Have we really got to such a low level of inhumanity that had this incident happened in a predominately white neighborhood we'd have more outcry on here?

I really hope that those responsible and guilty of this tragedy face the full wrath of the law. People before profit, never should it be the other way round!

With the very greatest of respect I think that you're way off kilter here.

I make no apologies for not having commented on this terrible tragedy sooner.

Posters are not morally obliged to pass comments in the first instance, and in the second I haven't even been on the site since the thread began.

Out of respect for those directly affected by this tragedy I will pass no further comment regarding your initial suggestion.

However, I wholeheartedly agree with your last two sentences.

Those responsible should be brought to justice and people should always come before profit in instances such as these.

RIP to those who have passed and to those who may join them.

Deepest condolences to their loved ones, to their friends and the very best of wishes to the survivors.

[Leicesterbaggie]

I too Regis80 endorse your final two sentences but I urge everybody to keep politics out of this awful tragedy. Don't satanise Theresa May for not meeting survivors and their families as many of her critics are doing. She is the PM and it was correct for her to meet and talk with the professionals to ascertain the whole situation and how to proceed. On the other side of the coin Jeremy Corbyn is being portrayed as 'St Jeremy' because he visited some of the survivors and family members and put his arms around them. She has got a lot on her plate at present what with Brexit and these tragedies that have hit our country. For goodness sake, give her some slack.

[stripes39]

The comments about the cost per panel are interesting and the suggestion that a fire-proof option would have cost £5K more. It seems a lot of people are blaming the contractor but isn't it the body issuing the tender who determine what is acceptable and who then sign it off?

I work in the data protection industry and a couple of years back my company went to a lot of expense submitting a tender for managing the confidential data of a large NHS Trust. Long story short, we met every stipulation in the contract and were one of only two serious contenders to provide what they required. The tender eventually got awarded to a company who we knew did not have the capability to deliver what the tender asked for. I met with a senior person from this NHS trust to ascertain why they had awarded a contract to a company that would put them in danger of a data security breach and who could not meet their security criteria. They explained that the tender was effectively a wish list which in an ideal world they would get for the budget they had. They explained that they had to greatly compromise even their own regulations as with what they wanted they simply did not have the finances to put in place an adequate solution with their budget.

So, if NHS trusts are having to use cheap-jack options that are not fit for purpose due to budget cuts, my guess is councils are doing likewise with construction projects in areas where they can cut costs. I might be wrong but it would not suprise me.

[baggieal]

I too Regis80 endorse your final two sentences but I urge everybody to keep politics out of this awful tragedy. Don't satanise Theresa May for not meeting survivors and their families as many of her critics are doing. She is the PM and it was correct for her to meet and talk with the professionals to ascertain the whole situation and how to proceed. On the other side of the coin Jeremy Corbyn is being portrayed as 'St Jeremy' because he visited some of the survivors and family members and put his arms around them. She has got a lot on her plate at present what with Brexit and these tragedies that have hit our country. For goodness sake, give her some slack.


I could not agree more with this post! Corbyn will resort to any tactics whether it's to offer free tuition fees to putting his arms around these survivors in London. Perhaps Corbyn should put his arms around those same families who have been blown up by the IRA. Different then!

Whether the area is white of black, is irrelevant as any loss of life to innocent people is absolutely tragic. Again Corbyn spouting all this nonsense about the two different divides of Kensington is crazy! I for one, would not be jealous whatsoever of anybody living in a London mansion - good luck to them as they most likely have worked for any assets or had luck on the way. It happens. Giving and being generous comes from the heart whether you have 1 pound or 5 million. Fair play to people like Rita Ora and Adele going back to their roots, and helping out.

[WBA1955]

I've purposely stayed away from the subject on here Regis because it's a tragedy and I wasnt sure its appropriate saying what I felt from a political viewpoint. But maybe I should, ultimately heads will roll and an inquest will find where the failures are. I don't think people haven't responded because of anything to do with race or wealth. Two things that spring to my mind immedietely are;

1. Our current govt are so keen on cutting everything that its obvious that we as a society will not be as safe than when they came into power in 2010. If you cut thousands upon thousands of police, nurses, doctors and firefighters...we will live in a more unsafe world. Thats a given

2. What always bugs me, is when I read or hear people talk about 'red tape'. Yes, we all have health, safety and other rules to follow in virtually every job, and yes they can be a massive pain in the arse. But guess what, 'Red Tape' is there for a reason and its usually to prevent accidents and save lives. So think about that next time you hear a politician talking about it, or a newspaper tells you there is too much regulation involved in something.

I only hope lessons are learned and nothing like this happens again. Unfortunately we have already had warnings with two other fires in high rise flats in London and the results were 'recommendations' for management companies. Lets hope this time they take it a bit more seriously

:star:

[saltnshake]

I too Regis80 endorse your final two sentences but I urge everybody to keep politics out of this awful tragedy. Don't satanise Theresa May for not meeting survivors and their families as many of her critics are doing. She is the PM and it was correct for her to meet and talk with the professionals to ascertain the whole situation and how to proceed. On the other side of the coin Jeremy Corbyn is being portrayed as 'St Jeremy' because he visited some of the survivors and family members and put his arms around them. She has got a lot on her plate at present what with Brexit and these tragedies that have hit our country. For goodness sake, give her some slack.
What you actually mean is she is far to busy trying to save her own skin as prime minister to go and visit these poor people, there are a lot of bad things going on in this country that are a direct result of savage cuts made by the Tory government, lets hope this tragedy is not one of them.

[phild]

How was the so called 'savage cuts' got to do with this terrible fire? The fire service were in attendance within minutes with extraordinary bravery. Apparently fire deaths are down year on year. Mayor Khan conducted his own review of the fire service when he became mayor and found the service was adequately provided for.

[goodlordmurphy]

It absolutely shocks me that there has not been a single response to this thread about this tragic incident in London. Have we really got to such a low level of inhumanity that had this incident happened in a predominately white neighborhood we'd have more outcry on here?

I really hope that those responsible and guilty of this tragedy face the full wrath of the law. People before profit, never should it be the other way round!

Don't know enough about it to make a serious observation...other than it was a tragedy for those residents.

[phild]

And another thing that pees me off about this fire. Loads of people demanding answers with some now storming the town hall with justifiable anger. AND yet when our kids got flippin blown up in Manchester we were told 'not to look back in anger' Hypocrisy doesnt even come close sometimes.

[saltnshake]

How was the so called 'savage cuts' got to do with this terrible fire? The fire service were in attendance within minutes with extraordinary bravery. Apparently fire deaths are down year on year. Mayor Khan conducted his own review of the fire service when he became mayor and found the service was adequately provided for.
It's appears that when the tower block was refurbished corners were cut(cheap cladding, no fire alarm no sprinkler system) was this down to lack of council money? a fire on the scale of this one shouldn't happen.

[wbaliquidator]

Simple fact is that high rise flats have been a feature of our inner cities for decades now. Firemen have routinely attended fires at such places with great success. So something dramatic has changed here. It’s plain to see from the various footage that something was highly combustible, and I don’t think it was just the external cladding.
The building industry is well regulated and even with the most stringent cost cutting there is still a certain standard that must be adhered to.
So people can blame government and local authorities as much as they like but the main responsibility is with …
The Body that specifies the building regulations.
The manufacture who make the materials, if they don’t meet the regulations as advertised.
The architects and planners who work with and specify the design and materials and keep to the regs.
The building contractors who implement the design and keep to the regs.
At least one of the above will be culpable and probably corporate manslaughter in some cases.
As for installing sprinklers, let’s remember the kids would be setting them off every week

[Q165]

And another thing that pees me off about this fire. Loads of people demanding answers with some now storming the town hall with justifiable anger. AND yet when our kids got flippin blown up in Manchester we were told 'not to look back in anger' Hypocrisy doesnt even come close sometimes.

The hijacking of this desperately tragic event by those pursuing their own particular agendas was inevitable.

[phild]

The hijacking of this desperately tragic event by those pursuing their own particular agendas was inevitable.

:star:

[phild]

And another thing, what about this bloke who actually DID start the fire. Not much being said about him is there? The fire began in his flat on the fourth floor and while it was taking hold he was packing his bags which also included luggage. He then left the blazing flat and woke up his neighbour. A bit late then don't ya think? Therefore the fire must have been fairly benign whilst he packed his bags. This guy made sure he had plenty of stuff to wear today. But lets blame Theresa May and the Tory cuts.

[wbaliquidator]

It is being politicised I agree.
It’s going to open up a wider debate
What about the escalating population, and how this is straining our social infrastructure.
Nobody wants to tackle the world wide population explosion and we have imported it here.
We are now becoming a third world society in our inner cities. The images remind me of scenes beamed to our old monochrome TV in the past from struggling overpopulated third world countries. The news readers would suggest it was corrupted officials. poor building work and basic regulations ignored. In many cases they were erected in a desperate attempt to solve the massive homeless problem. I would suggest the same forces were at play in London the other day.

[boingy]

Regis, I care a lot about many things. I used to do this and do that, even set up a charity and worked my socks off. NOTHING CHANGES. So I quietly care but no big show, no protests no look at me look how much I care, been there done it and wore out countless T shirts. Its a terrible tragedy, and there will be countless others on all fronts, terrorism, bad business practice cost cutting and killing people because of it....you name it...save the whale...save the planet...ban Ivory hunting etc,etc.
People are incapable of ruling people. Centuries of proof.

[WBA1955]

Two'words,privatisation,profit.
Nothing'more,need,be,said.

[Newcy Wolf]

Two'words,privatisation,profit.
Nothing'more,need,be,said.

But only God knows how much worse this tragedy would have been if Corbyn was in charge.

[baggieal]

But only God knows how much worse this tragedy would have been if Corbyn was in charge.


Don't know why all the abuse at Theresa May. Corbyn has milked the PR by cuddling up to the victims. Pity, he does not cuddle up to the victims of IRA atrocities but then again, he supported these terrorists.

The fire is absolutely tragic but making bigger headlines than the scumbag who killed many kids who went to a kids concert. Should all these same protesters with placards, running into town halls and marching through London, not be doing the same to stop future scumbags attacking innocent kids again. Seems these bombings are yesterdays news which is heartbreaking. I hope though these victims of the fire get justice through a in depth investigation and no stone is left onturned.

[BaggieBlood]

My heart goes out to the tragic families who have lost loved ones in this terrible fire.

RIP the poor souls who have passed.

On another note I never subscribed to banning anyone but, that scum dingle's post is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Instead of leaving a respectful message of condolence, he leaves one to antagonise Baggieal.

Even a sensitive thread as such cannot stop this degenerate from his only pass time, trying to get a rise from posters.

Beautiful day.

Is he out with his "kids "?

No, he's on here trying to get a rise.

The lowest of the low!

[WBA1955]

But only God knows how much worse this tragedy would have been if Corbyn was in charge.

yeah,he'would'have,probably'been'the'one
who'started'it.:rolleyes:
But'as,you'said'he's'not'in'so'just'conjecture.
Not'very'consistent'in'your'views'are'you

[mickd1961]

How sad that this sort of thread gets highjacked by people wanting to either points score in terms of politics or goad other posters!

Really guys......how sad and selfish.

On a serious note,I can't get my head around the lack of regulation in regards to the cladding of these tower blocks,it really is criminally negligent by numerous agencies and regulatory bodies.

Imagine a discussion with F1 racing drivers......"By the way Mr Vettel,your new safety suit has been fitted with a layer of polyethylene plastic along with the inside of your car".

"Oh great,thanks a lot......no point worrying about a cremation for me if I have a crash!!

It's mind boggling stupidity on a multitude of levels.

I rent out a few small houses,the regulation imposed on me as a private individual is increasingly onorus and rightly so,I like a lot of small landlords tread a very careful line with our properties because it's so easy to end up on a manslaughter charge these days.

I don't actually blame the people who fitted the panelling,they have to live with this on their conscience for the rest of their lives,the real blame lies with whoever gave this material a pass mark.....they should be done for manslaughter.

Local government should also be holding builders to a higher level of standard,you can't blame cuts all the time,surely common sense should lead to the correct questions being asked by the planning and building control departments of local govt!?

[baggieal]

How sad that this sort of thread gets highjacked by people wanting to either points score in terms of politics or goad other posters!

Really guys......how sad and selfish.

On a serious note,I can't get my head around the lack of regulation in regards to the cladding of these tower blocks,it really is criminally negligent by numerous agencies and regulatory bodies.

Imagine a discussion with F1 racing drivers......"By the way Mr Vettel,your new safety suit has been fitted with a layer of polyethylene plastic along with the inside of your car".

"Oh great,thanks a lot......no point worrying about a cremation for me if I have a crash!!

It's mind boggling stupidity on a multitude of levels.

I rent out a few small houses,the regulation imposed on me as a private individual is increasingly onorus and rightly so,I like a lot of small landlords tread a very careful line with our properties because it's so easy to end up on a manslaughter charge these days.

I don't actually blame the people who fitted the panelling,they have to live with this on their conscience for the rest of their lives,the real blame lies with whoever gave this material a pass mark.....they should be done for manslaughter.

Local government should also be holding builders to a higher level of standard,you can't blame cuts all the time,surely common sense should lead to the correct questions being asked by the planning and building control departments of local govt!?


Agree with all this. Seems the cladding was banned in other countries and thought our safety regulations were amongst the best in the world! I am glad May is calling for a full investigation and those responsible ( if any ) should be brought to justice and if the cladding is the cause of the blame, then other places need to be made safe immediately. Someone also needs to get all these people re-housed immediately, but then this not not help the poor souls who have perished. Don't like though, fingers being pointed at May, although don't particular like her, especially when other politicians are trying to score points from this tragic disaster. Everyone should pull together as one with politics left out of it. Every effort should be made to help those that need help immediately!

[Newcy Wolf]

yeah,he'would'have,probably'been'the'one
who'started'it.:rolleyes:
But'as,you'said'he's'not'in'so'just'conjecture.
Not'very'consistent'in'your'views'are'you

Very consistent thank you.

I thought you of all people would have detected the sarcasm.

Anyway, I'm off because although the politics was mentioned well before my initial post, looks like that was overlooked and I seem to be getting the blame for it all.

[Q165]

How sad that this sort of thread gets highjacked by people wanting to either points score in terms of politics or goad other posters!

Really guys......how sad and selfish.

On a serious note,I can't get my head around the lack of regulation in regards to the cladding of these tower blocks,it really is criminally negligent by numerous agencies and regulatory bodies.

Imagine a discussion with F1 racing drivers......"By the way Mr Vettel,your new safety suit has been fitted with a layer of polyethylene plastic along with the inside of your car".

"Oh great,thanks a lot......no point worrying about a cremation for me if I have a crash!!

It's mind boggling stupidity on a multitude of levels.

I rent out a few small houses,the regulation imposed on me as a private individual is increasingly onorus and rightly so,I like a lot of small landlords tread a very careful line with our properties because it's so easy to end up on a manslaughter charge these days.

I don't actually blame the people who fitted the panelling,they have to live with this on their conscience for the rest of their lives,the real blame lies with whoever gave this material a pass mark.....they should be done for manslaughter.

Local government should also be holding builders to a higher level of standard,you can't blame cuts all the time,surely common sense should lead to the correct questions being asked by the planning and building control departments of local govt!?

Planning departments have little, if any, involvement or say over detailed constructional issues such as this.

[WBA1955]

How sad that this sort of thread gets highjacked by people wanting to either points score in terms of politics or goad other posters!

Really guys......how sad and selfish.

On a serious note,I can't get my head around the lack of regulation in regards to the cladding of these tower blocks,it really is criminally negligent by numerous agencies and regulatory bodies.

Imagine a discussion with F1 racing drivers......"By the way Mr Vettel,your new safety suit has been fitted with a layer of polyethylene plastic along with the inside of your car".

"Oh great,thanks a lot......no point worrying about a cremation for me if I have a crash!!

It's mind boggling stupidity on a multitude of levels.

I rent out a few small houses,the regulation imposed on me as a private individual is increasingly onorus and rightly so,I like a lot of small landlords tread a very careful line with our properties because it's so easy to end up on a manslaughter charge these days.

I don't actually blame the people who fitted the panelling,they have to live with this on their conscience for the rest of their lives,the real blame lies with whoever gave this material a pass mark.....they should be done for manslaughter.

Local government should also be holding builders to a higher level of standard,you can't blame cuts all the time,surely common sense should lead to the correct questions being asked by the planning and building control departments of local govt!?

It'is'politial'given'the'fact'that'one'in'three'To ry'MP's'are'private'landlords'
Question'Mick,why'do'rich'and'powerful.people'give 'you'a'hard'on'and'why'do'you'despise'honest'worki ng'folk,

[WBA1955]

Very consistent thank you.

I thought you of all people would have detected the sarcasm.

Anyway, I'm off because although the politics was mentioned well before my initial post, looks like that was overlooked and I seem to be getting the blame for it all.

It'did'cross'my'mind'but'you'are'so'hard'to'fathom .Apologies

[mickd1961]

It'is'politial'given'the'fact'that'one'in'three'To ry'MP's'are'private'landlords'
Question'Mick,why'do'rich'and'powerful.people'give 'you'a'hard'on'and'why'do'you'despise'honest'worki ng'folk,

That comment is an absolute disgrace Des.

Sometimes you come right out of left field with ridiculous notions and this is one of them.

My one grandad was a postman,the other a bus driver and my one nan worked behind a bar until she was 80 years old....I was proud of them as a kid and I am now.

The rest of my family were Durham coal miners....grafters every one of them.

Don't judge me by the fact I vote Tory,I voted twice for Blair.


You've really gone too far on this one Des,we've met a few times and I liked and respected you.

[baggieal]

That comment is an absolute disgrace Des.

Sometimes you come right out of left field with ridiculous notions and this is one of them.

My one grandad was a postman,the other a bus driver and my one nan worked behind a bar until she was 80 years old....I was proud of them as a kid and I am now.

The rest of my family were Durham coal miners....grafters every one of them.

Don't judge me by the fact I vote Tory,I voted twice for Blair.


You've really gone too far on this one Des,we've met a few times and I liked and respected you.


Think everyone needs to calm down. There are many view points. Everyone agrees both the bombings and this fire were absolutely tragic but then other comments are taken out of context. I have added without any disrepect, it's rich for Corbyn to cuddle up to the victims of the fire, but the same "love" was not shown in Manchester or to any other terrorist victims. Is that anything to do with his past associations with the IRA?

You are then hearing mosques are coming out and heckling the PM - http://news.sky.com/story/pms-admission-fails-to-impress-grenfell-heckler-10918960 and many storming the town halls. Did these same people shout out when 22 people were slaughtered in Manchester ( mainly kids )? Many are saying this, and if there had been so much anger about the Manchester/London bombings which is yesterdays news, perhaps the country would do more to route out this evil. Sadly we will wait for the next.

I have contributed generously yesterday to the London Fire as it's absolutely tragic, and welcome anyone who is contributing and giving a welcoming hand. I do not like those who jump on the band wagon, and scream abuse about the fire but failed to show the same outpouring of aggression/sentiments to the bombings. Both the fire and bombings were equally as tragic, and a public investigation must be done with both i.e banning the cladding/ making safety improvements and throwing out/closing mosques/social media sites who contribute to hate. That's my view and that of many others, so do I care if anyone does not like it? No.

PS - incredible how emotions run higher over one incident over the other. Both are tragic, and again the same outpouring of rage needs to be shown about them both, especially from different communities.

[rambaggie]

A real shame is this tragedy. Two questions. Why was there a woman living in those flats with 6 children? And why was the 1st named victim a Syrian refugee living in those flats when we have people sleeping in the streets and have fallen on hard times? And people who have been waiting forever on the housing list.
Actually a 3rd question. How many people were living in those flats legally.

[Leicesterbaggie]

In all the conjecture as to how the fire started and why it spread so rapidly, we must try to avoid making jerk reactions. I fully understand why survivors, family and friends want answers to this shocking tragedy and it is easy for those of us, like myself, who lives in a tiny village in Leicetershire, making this type of statement. However, nothing is to be gained by throwing wild accusations at every agency or individual until all the facts are fully known. Unfortunately this will take time and only then, when the matter has been fully investigated, can a judgement be made and those responsible, if there is guilt, be punished. I must repeat though, that if you have been directly involved, it must be extremely difficult to be able to do this.

[Newcy Wolf]

It'did'cross'my'mind'but'you'are'so'hard'to'fathom .Apologies

There is absolutely no need to apologise, written text can easily be misinterpreted.

Unfortunately it can also be twisted to suit but that's certainly not the case here.

[baggieal]

In all the conjecture as to how the fire started and why it spread so rapidly, we must try to avoid making jerk reactions. I fully understand why survivors, family and friends want answers to this shocking tragedy and it is easy for those of us, like myself, who lives in a tiny village in Leicetershire, making this type of statement. However, nothing is to be gained by throwing wild accusations at every agency or individual until all the facts are fully known. Unfortunately this will take time and only then, when the matter has been fully investigated, can a judgement be made and those responsible, if there is guilt, be punished. I must repeat though, that if you have been directly involved, it must be extremely difficult to be able to do this.


Agree with this Leicester! Still say though, whilst I have generously contributed to both the fire and bombings, the start of the thread was about very little comment about grief, and questioned whether it was about race. That is nonsense as this tragic fire has received more headlines than the slaughtering of kids in Manchester with headlines of murderers - PM being abused - riots - and crowds storming the town halls. Perhaps, the same consistency should be shown to two/three tragic incidents, and the voice of certain communities is coming across more loud and clear over one incident i.e the fire than the bombings. Why is this? Still do not get the love in for a terrorist sympathizer i.e Corbyn milking the horrific fire incident, over anything terror related - some would say that's sick, and others may say that's milking PR for beneficial gain.

You can't have your cake and eat it! Both the fire and bombings and equally as tragic, and the loud voice should be shouted out for - what is the government going to do about it, as opposed to some communities shouting more over one incident and staying more silent over the other. Should Politicians not go to the scene as one, rather than scoring points over each other?

[WBA1955]

That comment is an absolute disgrace Des.

Sometimes you come right out of left field with ridiculous notions and this is one of them.

My one grandad was a postman,the other a bus driver and my one nan worked behind a bar until she was 80 years old....I was proud of them as a kid and I am now.

The rest of my family were Durham coal miners....grafters every one of them.

Don't judge me by the fact I vote Tory,I voted twice for Blair.


You've really gone too far on this one Des,we've met a few times and I liked and respected you.

But'you'are'the'one'who'champion'people'like'Princ e'Philip'a'bloke'who'can't'even'dress'himself'or'w ipe'his'own'arse'while'admitting'you'take'photo's' of'council'workers'having'a'break.I'am'middle'of't he'road'it's'you'who'are'so'far'to'the'right'you's ee'communists'everywherel.Blair'is'a'Tory'and'war' criminal'by'the'way.

[goodlordmurphy]

Moderators this is getting so far removed from the original....it's time to knock this thread on the head.

[mickd1961]

But'you'are'the'one'who'champion'people'like'Princ e'Philip'a'bloke'who'can't'even'dress'himself'or'w ipe'his'own'arse'while'admitting'you'take'photo's' of'council'workers'having'a'break.I'am'middle'of't he'road'it's'you'who'are'so'far'to'the'right'you's ee'communists'everywherel.Blair'is'a'Tory'and'war' criminal'by'the'way.

You must've spent too much time out in the sun yesterday,you're spouting absolute bollox.

I don't "champion" Prince Phillip FFS.....when I mention on here what a fine job he does I'm being f u c k I n g ironic for christs sake,I think the royals are a bunch of w a n k e r s!

I've done absolutely nothing to deserve this personal abuse Des so pack it in,you're supposed to be a moderator FFS....in fact it was ME that was the first person to suggest you and Chris as moderators so maybe you could start by taking yourself in Hand!

[baggieal]

You must've spent too much time out in the sun yesterday,you're spouting absolute bollox.

I don't "champion" Prince Phillip FFS.....when I mention on here what a fine job he does I'm being f u c k I n g ironic for christs sake,I think the royals are a bunch of w a n k e r s!

I've done absolutely nothing to deserve this personal abuse Des so pack it in,you're supposed to be a moderator FFS....in fact it was ME that was the first person to suggest you and Chris as moderators so maybe you could start by taking yourself in Hand!


Must totally agree with you on this!

[goodlordmurphy]

It's a good job this board wasn't around in 1666...

[regis80]

It absolutely shocks me that there has not been a single response to this thread about this tragic incident in London. Have we really got to such a low level of inhumanity that had this incident happened in a predominately white neighborhood we'd have more outcry on here?

I really hope that those responsible and guilty of this tragedy face the full wrath of the law. People before profit, never should it be the other way round!

I bought race up because i wanted to highlight the number of occasions where we have had on this board where there have been racial elements and tones in a posters comments. This board is toxic and breeds nothing but hate by these vile posters, they know who they are. So when this tragic event happened and the thread started by Soulman there had not been a single post/response which got me thinking about the number of racists on this messageboard that they will only care if the victims were white. I get that some of you are genuinely good hearted and have no racists views unlike some. But really do you expect goo lord murphy or Phil aka Throctova and the like to come and say what a sad loss?? This is what i was getting at.. as a consequence the response from them is the leftist attack, the daily mail transcript they have read, it was someone refrigerator, marxist, communist, corbyn's fault. FFS lives were lost!
We have had 3 events of late where lives have been lost, the terrorist attacks and now this fire. It would be just good if people just in general were a bit more humane.

[phild]

Posters on this thread have given their opinion as is their right. If that opinion goes against your sensitivities then you also have a right to express that but don't expect everyone to exude touchy feely sadness just because you want them to display some sort of blubbery emotion. I and every decent poster on this thread are all appalled as to what as needlessly happened at Grenfel, on the other hand I think posters on the whole are quite "vile and toxic" when they start bringing up race, to me it just shows that their agenda is the continuance of stirring up further hate and division.

[baggieal]

I bought race up because i wanted to highlight the number of occasions where we have had on this board where there have been racial elements and tones in a posters comments. This board is toxic and breeds nothing but hate by these vile posters, they know who they are. So when this tragic event happened and the thread started by Soulman there had not been a single post/response which got me thinking about the number of racists on this messageboard that they will only care if the victims were white. I get that some of you are genuinely good hearted and have no racists views unlike some. But really do you expect goo lord murphy or Phil aka Throctova and the like to come and say what a sad loss?? This is what i was getting at.. as a consequence the response from them is the leftist attack, the daily mail transcript they have read, it was someone refrigerator, marxist, communist, corbyn's fault. FFS lives were lost!
We have had 3 events of late where lives have been lost, the terrorist attacks and now this fire. It would be just good if people just in general were a bit more humane.


I contributed to both the fire and the bombings because the loss of life was tragic. You do have to remember though, headlines and the demand from all communities should be consistent with any tragic incident. I did not see Theresa May get violated in Manchester, and i did not see town halls being stormed, or riots, or placards. Why? 22 people at a kids pop concert were slaughtered. Is it racist for some to say, certain communities should pull together and condemn these atrocities?

All Politicians should come together as one in a sad moment of need but they score points. You don't see Corbyn with any victims of terrorist acts. Ask those victims of the IRA what they think of Mr Corbyn!

Problem with this country is to say the wrong word you are accused of being racist. Bit like saying everyone who wanted out is racist. Whilst Brexit was not about immigration, my view is that every person should be welcome as long as they have work or can financially support themselves! This is no different in countries like Australia or the USA, but such a statement here in the UK is considered in bad taste by some.

Another poster commented this country should massively cut foreign aid. Well is that racist, when some old folk here are living in poverty or worse on the street. I contribute absolutely loads to charities but will often put notes in charities closer to home - like kids hospices i.e Acorns. Is this wrong!

The old saying in life is so true - you can't have your cake and eat it!

[WBA123]

I contributed to both the fire and the bombings because the loss of life was tragic. You do have to remember though, headlines and the demand from all communities should be consistent with any tragic incident. I did not see Theresa May get violated in Manchester, and i did not see town halls being stormed, or riots, or placards. Why? 22 people at a kids pop concert were slaughtered. Is it racist for some to say, certain communities should pull together and condemn these atrocities?

All Politicians should come together as one in a sad moment of need but they score points. You don't see Corbyn with any victims of terrorist acts. Ask those victims of the IRA what they think of Mr Corbyn!

Problem with this country is to say the wrong word you are accused of being racist. Bit like saying everyone who wanted out is racist. Whilst Brexit was not about immigration, my view is that every person should be welcome as long as they have work or can financially support themselves! This is no different in countries like Australia or the USA, but such a statement here in the UK is considered in bad taste by some.

Another poster commented this country should massively cut foreign aid. Well is that racist, when some old folk here are living in poverty or worse on the street. I contribute absolutely loads to charities but will often put notes in charities closer to home - like kids hospices i.e Acorns. Is this wrong!

The old saying in life is so true - you can't have your cake and eat it!

The trouble is there is a line, you can't just quote 'too much political correctness' and then say any offensive things that pop into your head. Just like you can't quote 'freedom of speech' and then incite hatred. Both of these happens.

I don't think you can compare Manchester and Grenfell either, both of those incidents were tragically different and raised different emotions.

Is it racist to ask communities to pull together or condemn attrocoties? Absolutely not, and if you listen to some in the media that is exactly what they have been doing. Is it racist to ask for cuts to foreign aid to be spent elsewhere in solciety? Absolutely not. Is it fair to blame a whole religion on terrorist attacks? Absolutley not.

We obviously won't agree on Corbyn, but the IRA thing in my view is a complete smear by the press who want a Tory government. And in my opinion, Brexit was largely due to immigration. And the great thing about our country is that we are all entitled to our views, even if we don't agree with each other!

Everyone can have their cake and eat it, as long as they know where the line is between a fair and valid point or an offensive, potentially racist/***ist/homophobic point. And that line is pretty clear to me.

[goodlordmurphy]

After watching the residents storming Council Offices my sympathy began to cool a bit, now they have beaten up a volunteer mistaken for a CEO of the building....with all due respects to the people killed and injured, the rest can now take a run and jump as far as I'm concerned.

[albion68]

After watching the residents storming Council Offices my sympathy began to cool a bit, now they have beaten up a volunteer mistaken for a CEO of the building....with all due respects to the people killed and injured, the rest can now take a run and jump as far as I'm concerned. Murphy don't blame the commuaty,infiltrates corbyn lefties mate ,and comrade McDonnell inciting his loonies

[WBA1955]

Can'anyone'say'how'they'would'react'if'family'were 'burned'to'a'crisp'in'the'name'of'profit
A'selfish,greedy'world'we'live'in
Labour'had'an'amendment'to'make'all.'properties'fi t'for'habitation'but'Tories'voted'it'out
1'in'3'Tory'MP's'are'landlords'so'don't'point,your ,feckin'fingers'at'us

[baggieal]

Can'anyone'say'how'they'would'react'if'family'were 'burned'to'a'crisp'in'the'name'of'profit
A'selfish,greedy'world'we'live'in
Labour'had'an'amendment'to'make'all.'properties'fi t'for'habitation'but'Tories'voted'it'out
1'in'3'Tory'MP's'are'landlords'so'don't'point,your ,feckin'fingers'at'us


In the end, I did not vote, as they are all useless. I may have voted Labour if the leader was not a fruitcake. Did Corbyn not ask for a minutes silence for IRA murderers? Did Corbyn refuse to condemn the IRA on many occasions - why? Bit like me not condemning a mass killer immediately! Did Corbyn say the use of drones to take out IS killers was not legal? Many would exterminate any killers immediately with absolute proof, if they could not do this on the ground! I agree about greed, as more give to charity than those who are loaded.

If you are taking the job on as a mod, perhaps you should not wade in two feet first! As Mick said, perhaps the sun has gone to your head........................

[albion68]

Can'anyone'say'how'they'would'react'if'family'were 'burned'to'a'crisp'in'the'name'of'profit
A'selfish,greedy'world'we'live'in
Labour'had'an'amendment'to'make'all.'properties'fi t'for'habitation'but'Tories'voted'it'out
1'in'3'Tory'MP's'are'landlords'so'don't'point,your ,feckin'fingers'at'us
I've just retired after 54years hard work . And I mean hard work.voted labour all my life till I was was conned by mr Blair.dont tell me you can't see through corbyn and is cronies, corbyn came from a wealthy Shropshire family .hes like all the luvvies as the actors are called .we can all be wealthy leftists and commies.ps bit like scargill.

[baggieal]

I've just retired after 54years hard work . And I mean hard work.voted labour all my life till I was was conned by mr Blair.dont tell me you can't see through corbyn and is cronies, corbyn came from a wealthy Shropshire family .hes like all the luvvies as the actors are called .we can all be wealthy leftists and commies.ps bit like scargill.


You have hit the nail on the head there! I would have voted for Labour in this election had it not been for Corbyn and Abbott in particular. With the pathetic PR campaign run by the Tories, Labour could have got in, had it not been for these two lunatics. Again all tragedies are heart breaking, but Corbyn has been far move involved in the last two incidents more so than the bombings. Why is that? Television and appearances don't lie! Why does Corbyn not outright condemn immediately the terrorists that kill young innocent kids?

[goodlordmurphy]

Murphy don't blame the commuaty,infiltrates corbyn lefties mate ,and comrade McDonnell inciting his loonies

albion68 I fully understand that 'other forces' are playing a part, but I have seen no arrests of people outside of the immediate community, if you have, then please let me know then I will be respectfully corrected and possibly reverse my emotions.

[WBA1955]

All'know'is'Tories'are'only'interested'in'money'an d'people'with'it'name'just'one'thing'they'have'eve r'done'for'ordinary'people
They'also'run'99%'of'the'media'and'people'are'gull able'enough'to'believe'it
I'look'forward'to'the'return'of'Fox'hunting'someth ing'for'everyone

[goodlordmurphy]

I've just retired after 54years hard work . And I mean hard work.voted labour all my life till I was was conned by mr Blair.dont tell me you can't see through corbyn and is cronies, corbyn came from a wealthy Shropshire family .hes like all the luvvies as the actors are called .we can all be wealthy leftists and commies.ps bit like scargill.

Agree with the wealthy leftist angle...none better at it than Tony Wedgewood-Benn...a multimillionaire in his own right...quiet political assassin.

[albion68]

albion68 I fully understand that 'other forces' are playing a part, but I have seen no arrests of people outside of the immediate community, if you have, then please let me know then I will be respectfully corrected and possibly reverse my emotions.murphy,not having a go.the lefties and loonies come out at the drop of a hat.i bet some of the old labour politicians are turning in there graves.