Cardinal George Pell

[blueheeler1]

The Vatican treasurer and Australia's most senior Catholic figure, Cardinal George Pell, has been charged with *** offences in Australia.

If you haven't seen this it's very funny (although the subject matter isn't) and its worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtHOmforqxk

[oldcolner]

Written and produced in 1 day - that's amazing. Bit different to Matilda The Musical!

Charges follow A royal Commission that heard £171M has been paid out to thousands of victims in Australia and 7 % of priests were abusers. The policy of moving abusers round parishes is coming home to roost and is now at the door of the Vatican.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-38988995

[The Bedlington Terrier]

What people will do in the name of religion, they will either blow you up, touch you up or just dress up in frocks...

5151

[sinkov]

It's a continuing mystery to me why we allow these superstitions to so dominate our lives. We require scientific proof for everything except religion, try claiming climate change might not be entirely man made and you get laughed at, and a load of scientific evidence (often pseudoscience but never mind) chucked at you. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever for any religion, quite the opposite in fact, but it's taken seriously and treated with the utmost respect the world over. I suppose it's understandable in under-developed 3rd world countries, but this is Europe in 2017 FFS.

Beats me.

[blueheeler1]

It's a continuing mystery to me why we allow these superstitions to so dominate our lives. We require scientific proof for everything except religion, try claiming climate change might not be entirely man made and you get laughed at, and a load of scientific evidence (often pseudoscience but never mind) chucked at you. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever for any religion, quite the opposite in fact, but it's taken seriously and treated with the utmost respect the world over. I suppose it's understandable in under-developed 3rd world countries, but this is Europe in 2017 FFS.

Beats me.

So much there but I can't disagree.

It starts off with mankind trying to understand himself in the universe and coming to a conclusion that all the good things that happen and all the bad things that happen must be part of a controlling influence beyond our lives.

Some in-built belief that humans are so important there has to be a reason for our existence--if only we could understand what needs to be done.

Possibly good people start to try and "appease" the Gods to influence their needs during drought; famine; hurricanes etc.

Then other, cleverer, people latch onto it (or create it in the first place) claiming intimate knowledge and understanding of the Gods and what they want you to do to make all the bad stuff disappear.

These "knowledgeable" people may do it "for the good of the people" or for their own power and influence.

And religion is born.

For reasons I can never understand we worship people and supposed events that happened thousands of years ago.

As if their "knowledge" and "understanding" has been lost over time.

Religion has always fascinated me and continues to do so.

But I would rather put my thinking cap on to the question of Artificial Intelligence and their obvious ability to learn from the environment and to problem-solve by themselves.

AI will probably evolve into having emotions and suffering and dreaming and pondering their existence.

And then I wonder what Mankind will do in granting AI's "Rights".

In other words we will be their living God for a while until they take over.

[nutsinmay]

It's a continuing mystery to me why we allow these superstitions to so dominate our lives. We require scientific proof for everything except religion, try claiming climate change might not be entirely man made and you get laughed at, and a load of scientific evidence (often pseudoscience but never mind) chucked at you. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever for any religion, quite the opposite in fact, but it's taken seriously and treated with the utmost respect the world over. I suppose it's understandable in under-developed 3rd world countries, but this is Europe in 2017 FFS. Beats me.

I agree.

It's also a continuing mystery that there are people who say the country is skint, and we have to cut health services, police and emergency services, but then they find £1bn to buy votes to keep them in power, and people believe it. Hallelujah!!

[1959_60]

A very heavy subject...but there are so many unanswered questions about, say, the creation of the universe, and so many theories.

The theory of the "big bang", which is the current most accepted thinking, was actually postulated by Georges Lemaître who was a Roman Catholic priest based at the Vatican Observatory.
He, along with many eminent scientists, saw no conflict between science and religion.

Here is a list of religious scientists - many are still alive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology#Curre ntly_living

Many theories in nuclear physics for example have practically zero evidence - but the "best" theories achieve acclaim - barmy as they are.

I suggest an open mind is the best way.

[Altobelli]

I like Tim Minchin 59_60, he does some good material.

Only the other day Lord George Carey "colluded" with *****phile bishop Peter Ball, which I see has not been aired as much as it should unless I have missed it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/26/lord-carey-quits-church-england-role-report-found-colluded-***/

Like BT has alluded to, Never trust a man in a dress.

Well wrote that man in post # 4.

[Norder]

.

it's traditional - a history of bloodshed...the blind leading the blind..."do not bow down to graven images"....so they put on some robes and kneel to them - all Man made...so what do we expect, give the frauds power for nothing and they'll do with it whatever they please.

Isaiah on religion " your works are as a filthy rags before god"

Mathew 23.

Jesus.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. Outwardly you look as righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.
“But in saying that, you testify against yourselves that you are indeed the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead and finish what your ancestors started. Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell?

..


:)

[Balanbam00]

This subject could be debated until the end of time but will there be an end of time ,what is time? Time is a measurement of the mind. Lets see it in another light, not religiously but spiritual

All religions are dogmatic, that is they do not allow the mind, or thoughts to cross certain boundaries.
But it is a human characteristic when we can perceive an object we say it is, and when we cannot perceive it we simply say ''it does not exist!'' Science can not say anything about that which is beyond the mind , the mind can not grasp. This created universe is in a state of 'flux' everything is moving everything is changing. That which under goes change can not be the truth.
Man has a reflective consciousness, that is he has the ability to know who he really is!! The Greeks told us ''know thyself'', animals do not have this ability,in this respect man is far superior.

Man has consciousness ,and consciousness is also found in the animal and plant kingdoms. It is found in the whole cycle of creation. We came out of consciousness! Through metamorphoses and pressure the elements were created, from the subtle coming to the crude, 'solid'. From 'solid' we return to again to the subtle. We left as unqualified consciousness and return as qualified consciousness. So the question asked, ''why did God create this creation?'' You can say, (He) is qualifying is own Self!! We will all at some point in time merge in to that Consciousness, Just as you take a piece of salt and touch the Ocean, what will happen the salt looses its identity and becomes the Ocean! That is unification.

1959_60

I do not believe this is a heavy subject we have been given the Judeo Christian beliefs and accepted them. A kind of ''thats whats written ,thats it!'' Stop any more searching!

On Georges Lemaître, The big Bang theory is the effect , what was the cause ? If he gave us the "primeval atom" or "the Cosmic Egg, exploding at the moment of the creation".but what caused the explosion? If no forces existed then it can not explode! Yes some may say ,it became unstable ! So let the answer be God created. ( metamorphosis of Consciousness !) The "primeval atom" or "the Cosmic Egg, is not the cause it is part of an effect ! Science can not go beyond the 'Big Bang'

Feel free to comment !!

[blueheeler1]

This subject could be debated until the end of time but will there be an end of time ,what is time? Time is a measurement of the mind. Lets see it in another light, not religiously but spiritual

All religions are dogmatic, that is they do not allow the mind, or thoughts to cross certain boundaries.
But it is a human characteristic when we can perceive an object we say it is, and when we cannot perceive it we simply say ''it does not exist!'' Science can not say anything about that which is beyond the mind , the mind can not grasp. This created universe is in a state of 'flux' everything is moving everything is changing. That which under goes change can not be the truth.
Man has a reflective consciousness, that is he has the ability to know who he really is!! The Greeks told us ''know thyself'', animals do not have this ability,in this respect man is far superior.

Man has consciousness ,and consciousness is also found in the animal and plant kingdoms. It is found in the whole cycle of creation. We came out of consciousness! Through metamorphoses and pressure the elements were created, from the subtle coming to the crude, 'solid'. From 'solid' we return to again to the subtle. We left as unqualified consciousness and return as qualified consciousness. So the question asked, ''why did God create this creation?'' You can say, (He) is qualifying is own Self!! We will all at some point in time merge in to that Consciousness, Just as you take a piece of salt and touch the Ocean, what will happen the salt looses its identity and becomes the Ocean! That is unification.

1959_60

I do not believe this is a heavy subject we have been given the Judeo Christian beliefs and accepted them. A kind of ''thats whats written ,thats it!'' Stop any more searching!

On Georges Lemaître, The big Bang theory is the effect , what was the cause ? If he gave us the "primeval atom" or "the Cosmic Egg, exploding at the moment of the creation".but what caused the explosion? If no forces existed then it can not explode! Yes some may say ,it became unstable ! So let the answer be God created. ( metamorphosis of Consciousness !) The "primeval atom" or "the Cosmic Egg, is not the cause it is part of an effect ! Science can not go beyond the 'Big Bang'

Feel free to comment !!


Why did God feel the necessity to create?

[oldcolner]

Why did God feel the necessity to create?

Which God though? :?

Throughout recorded history, we can count anywhere from 8,000–12,000 gods who have been worshiped. But we can only count around 9 different types of gods (based on theological characteristics) that have been worshiped. Every modern god also fits into one of these types, and 5 of them are Hindu types.

No one is quite sure how many gods are still worshipped in modern times, but no fewer than 24 major gods and maybe about a 100 or so minor deities and spirits. A lot of Asian cultures have a lot of minor divinities in their theologies.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-gods-are-currently-worshipped-on-earth

The real question is why did people feel it necessary to create gods? I suggest fear of the unknown and trying to control that fear is one factor.

[Norder]

Why did God feel the necessity to create?

...it likes to experiment.

https://media.giphy.com/media/6bf63Waphqogw/source.gif

.....is just playing.


so does it know it all ?....as what if even it - is caught on the inside.....having the ability to shape us wouldn't need this so called God to be the beginning and end of all and everything....would it ?



https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/5c/bc/2c/5cbc2c20557dc3f4fdc63bb2d64d3616.jpg

;D

[Balanbam00]

Why did God feel the necessity to create?


A philosopher can not answer this question why did God create the Universe because that is beyond the 'Cosmic mind'
let alone the unit minds. we can not comprehend beyond the limits of our minds.
I can not give any other meaning that when the subjective 'I' was without an object? therefore He created the objective Universe which is all in His mind. The same if we were without vision, sound, taste, touch or smell what would happen to our minds having no objects, would we go crazy? Ask someone that goes to church , they may say he created us so the we worship Him?
So after death, we are all going to be singing hymns,with music with harps playing , and women in long flowing dresses dancing in circles with kids?? Take be down to the bottom floor please,there might not me virgins there, but there could be alcoholic beverages??

( Another answer is that some parts of this Consciousness became Qualified ( Subjective Mind ) and other parts not ,so in effect that Consciousness is liberating its own self,qualifying its own self ? )

[blueheeler1]

Why did God feel the necessity to create?


A philosopher can not answer this question why did God create the Universe because that is beyond the 'Cosmic mind'
let alone the unit minds. we can not comprehend beyond the limits of our minds.
I can not give any other meaning that when the subjective 'I' was without an object? therefore He created the objective Universe which is all in His mind. The same if we were without vision, sound, taste, touch or smell what would happen to our minds having no objects, would we go crazy? Ask someone that goes to church , they may say he created us so the we worship Him?
So after death, we are all going to be singing hymns,with music with harps playing , and women in long flowing dresses dancing in circles with kids?? Take be down to the bottom floor please,there might not me virgins there, but there could be alcoholic beverages??

( Another answer is that some parts of this Consciousness became Qualified ( Subjective Mind ) and other parts not ,so in effect that Consciousness is liberating its own self,qualifying its own self ? )


I've just thought of an answer to the whole creation thing.

In a universe or dimension very very far way something was playing with chemicals that became unsafe.

Rather than have this potential danger in his own time and space it was jettisoned to a spare space known to them but so very far away it couldn't cause them any problems.

This unsafe chemical exploded causing our big bang.

This theory suggests there was a Creator, of sorts, by default but also acknowledges that there is no Divine "being"' that interfaces with our lives or even knows we exist.

Its all a bit of luck or bad luck whichever way you choose to look at it.

[Balanbam00]

I think some of the Wovers fans could accept that theory ,blue. But scientists and Turf Moor fans ?? That something' must have had intelligence of some sort, because 'it ' was playing. The question now is where did the chemicals come from? 'What created the chemicals? Did they just appear out of the 'blue'? Again 'playing means space was there, because there was movement,was that space expanding, it could not have been contracting, and it was not a vacuum,so some other element like ether must have been created? Out of what was the (lets say ether!) created?
Yet again gases must have been created, to cause heat,gases exploding creates light ,from the explosion elements would have cooled down from a liquid state, then become solid, from that you have the chemicals. Its all a bit 'sticky'.

'People solve problems in our daily life ,but this we can not solve'.

[Balanbam00]

Blue:
''This theory suggests there was a Creator, of sorts, by default but also acknowledges that there is no Divine "being"' that interfaces with our lives or even knows we exist.
Its all a bit of luck or bad luck whichever way you choose to look at it''.

Of course we can not really know the answer to this:
But if the world has been here for millions of years is it by accident ? Everything is governed by the Laws of action - reaction. Philosophers has stated there is no accidents in this world everything is because of this action - reaction, so everything is an incident!
Today we have seen the fall of Communism , soon we will see the fall of Capitalism,both are materialistic economic theory's. Religion is dogmatic ,it goes against the freedom of the expanding mind. We are now seeing in the world of Islam,how they are fighting will it meet its destruction, and will belief in it continue? In Christianity we are seeing ,well, these posts are under Cardinal Pell, what has happened in Australia and in Ireland with young boys and a lot more are churches full or becoming empty? But perhaps all of this is an accident??

[oldcolner]

Here's a list of Catholic abuse by country .... except there are separate sites for the UK and Ireland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_***_abuse_cases_by_country

Forced adoption in catholic unmarried mothers home
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/03/catholic-church-apologises-for-role-in-forced-adoptions-over-30-year-period
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/head-catholic-church-uk-says-9184739

Now what did the 10 commandments say!! The Vatican has presided over organised abuse and cover ups for years. Other churches are not immune.

Religious wars
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Wars in Europe caused by religion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

All these events and more caused by a need for ones God or ones version of the same god to be supreme.

[Altobelli]

That's a very long list for abuse by Countries Colner, too long, and that's just the one's that have come to light, it's frightening and I would not be shocked if there was many more that have happened and are happening now which will never be revealed, IMO it seems a safe haven for abusers rather than a place for worship and comfort.

My Mum (now passed) used to say abuse of children was disgusting and they should have their bits cut off, but she'd always watch Documentaries and Drama Series focusing on it as she said it was interesting even if terrible, I'd go around to visit her and a few times she'd be viewing it on TV, I'd have to go out for a long walk until it finished as I could not stomach it.

[blueheeler1]

Blue:
''This theory suggests there was a Creator, of sorts, by default but also acknowledges that there is no Divine "being"' that interfaces with our lives or even knows we exist.
Its all a bit of luck or bad luck whichever way you choose to look at it''.

Of course we can not really know the answer to this:
But if the world has been here for millions of years is it by accident ? Everything is governed by the Laws of action - reaction. Philosophers has stated there is no accidents in this world everything is because of this action - reaction, so everything is an incident!
Today we have seen the fall of Communism , soon we will see the fall of Capitalism,both are materialistic economic theory's. Religion is dogmatic ,it goes against the freedom of the expanding mind. We are now seeing in the world of Islam,how they are fighting will it meet its destruction, and will belief in it continue? In Christianity we are seeing ,well, these posts are under Cardinal Pell, what has happened in Australia and in Ireland with young boys and a lot more are churches full or becoming empty? But perhaps all of this is an accident??

But if the world has been here for millions of years is it by accident ?
a
ANS. Despite time, which has no meaning, it could have been an accident. Why should it have been "ordained"? It maks no sense at all.

Philosophers has stated there is no accidents in this world everything is because of this action - reaction.

ANS So everything is an action. Hence my theory.

Today we have seen the fall of Communism , soon we will see the fall of Capitalism,both are materialistic economic theory's. Religion is dogmatic ,it goes against the freedom of the expanding mind. We are now seeing in the world of Islam,how they are fighting will it meet its destruction, and will belief in it continue?

ANS Belief will always work against facts. If you believe in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs there is nothing to stop you.

We are now seeing in the world of Islam,how they are fighting will it meet its destruction, and will belief in it continue?

ANS No. Because bollxxks will be seen as Bollxxks eventually. The Prophet Mohamed was flawed.

In Christianity we are seeing ,well, these posts are under Cardinal Pell, what has happened in Australia and in Ireland with young boys and a lot more are churches full or becoming empty? But perhaps all of this is an accident?

ANS The horrible action against youth is no accident. It's due to scum using Religion as a vehicle.

[blueheeler1]

Balanbam00 I'm in Israel from 4th July 2017 for two weeks.

Want to catch up?

[Balanbam00]

Very nice blue, you have cornered me so I will answer in my way of thinking !

Your ANSWER: Despite time, which has no meaning, it could have been an accident. Why should it have been "ordained"? It maks no sense at all.

If we have movement,there must be space, and if something moves from a point (a) to a point ( b ) it must have taken time , then does space, movement and time, have no meaning?? I don't know but science may give us its answer.

''It could have been an accident''.?

Then lets ask, if an accident must have a cause? Or it happens without a cause?
''Why should it have been "ordained"?''

I have tried to answer the Causal Matrix, was Consciousness, and some parts were qualified (subjective )They became Cosmic Mind ,or we say God . The unqualified part He starts to qualify, therefore creation is started and the Cosmic cycle.

ANS: '' So everything is an action. Hence my theory.'' But all actions have a cause!

ANS Belief will always work against facts. If you believe in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs there is nothing to stop you.

Not really. I believe Burnley will win the league this year and the facts ???I believe I can fly to Mars would you believe me?

ANS The horrible action against youth is no accident. It's due to scum using Religion as a vehicle.

It does not matter if it was religion or Government. There was a cause. I would say they teach and preach about religion, but they do not feel God ,perhaps not feeling LOVE! If we do not feel love all forms of behaviour can happen and some not nice
disgusting behaviour too