The Fletcher Scenario

[animallittle3]

Ok let's assume he wants to come back to the club and kick start his career .

It seems fairly common knowledge that West Ham insist on any club taking him on loan does so and pays his wages in full , 7 or 8k a week .

That's fine in principle because it's affordable I would argue because it's only for one season .

The problem with that is this , it's likely to break our wage structure and could pyss off a number of our players , the players it's most likely to hack off are the ones who were here last season , Davies , Yiadom , Macdonald , Moncur and Mowat , Bradshaw .

I don't imagine these players are on anything like approaching 8k a week , half of that figure tops .

The last thing we need is these lads kicking off , they played their part last season at various times and we need unrest in the camp like we need Tom Kennedy in the back four .

The newer additions haven't any clout and are likely to mutter under their breath and keep their hands down , they've proved nowt yet , Davies and co have and they are our senior players now .

I tell you this if some young dude walks straight into the dressing room on double my bubble after I've done my bit to establish the club back in the championship then Hecky and co had better get their wallet out and double my money pronto .

And that is why he possibly won't be signing , Ash Fletcher or not , the harmony in the dressing room is our strength and nothing should be risked in that respect .

[Jules88]

Totally agree with that! The ethos is to build around same age players... creating the spirit. Damaging that spirit with wage disparity wouldn't help.
Sowhere do we get a cheap, young forward? If we go for an Older/ Proven head as some want they'll be on more money too, won't they ? Which will still create disharmony.
It's a rock and hard place!

[animallittle3]

Totally agree with that! The ethos is to build around same age players... creating the spirit. Damaging that spirit with wage disparity wouldn't help.
Sowhere do we get a cheap, young forward? If we go for an Older/ Proven head as some want they'll be on more money too, won't they ? Which will still create disharmony.
It's a rock and hard place!

Well I take your point jules however .

Bringing in 2 or 3 older players with championship pedigree would carry more clout within a dressing room than a 21 years old lad from the smoke .

The key here is the credibility and how that comes across to players already here .

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Hammill is our significant top earner , that doesn't appear to cause an issue because he's 29 and got the T shirt .

[animallittle3]

From what I've read from ex players who were with the club during our PL season money did cause a fair bit of unrest .

Redders. Sherdian , Eaden and co were pretty pyssed off about Tinkler , Hristov and one or two more coming to the club on far bigger wages , Redders said in his book the senior players had got the club promotion and a bunch of unproven players just waltzed through the door and claimed the cream .

However , they didn't begrudge Ashley Ward a penny because he was the real deal with the quality and work ethic he brought to the club .

Hope that makes my point rather better than the previous post .

[pass_and_move]

From what I've read from ex players who were with the club during our PL season money did cause a fair bit of unrest .

Redders. Sherdian , Eaden and co were pretty pyssed off about Tinkler , Hristov and one or two more coming to the club on far bigger wages , Redders said in his book the senior players had got the club promotion and a bunch of unproven players just waltzed through the door and claimed the cream .

However , they didn't begrudge Ashley Ward a penny because he was the real deal with the quality and work ethic he brought to the club .

Hope that makes my point rather better than the previous post .


Fair point mate. I think the fact that they were foreign didn't help either and i don't use that term in a stereotypical way. I think hristov is the perfect example of a young unproven striker coming in for a big transfer fee and wages. Was he any better than the strikers we already had? Probably not.

Maybe players like Ward and Barnard came in on bigger money but our promotion players had instant respect for them because they knew all about them. Tinkler, Georgi, Marksted, Krizan etc were an unknown quantity simply because they were foreign yet expectations of them were high. Having seen them in training and how the season went they failed to deliver and you can understand discontent in the camp. Our foreign contingent contributed very little when you think about it.

Funny because De Zeeuw, Clint and jovo who were crucial to the promotion squad but were more than likely sharing parity in the wages with the rest of the lads. It's a very shrewd point you make Animal.

Unity is our strength, absolutely ***** is the spirit in this camp. Young lads who probably wear their hearts on their sleeves and probably are lacking in rational thought wouldn't welcome a player who still has much to prove yet is getting double the dough. Its a poser.

Should West Ham perhaps share the wages of Fletch with us then it may well ease any possible volatile situation. It's all hypothetical but in reality i think whoever loans him will have to pay his money, should that be a leeds, Derby, forest etc it's certainly not a problem to them. Certainly gives food for thought

[asbin]

I cannot see how you can complain about the wages of any player that comes in on loan, especially from a premier league club. If we buy a player and put him on a wage far greater than what existing players are on then fair comment. Its common knowledge that any premier league player is on far more money than our players are on.
If a club loans us a player, then we have to pay him his wages unless the parent club agrees to pay some as did Leicester last season. If West ham are saying we will have to pay all Fletchers wages then so be it.

[animallittle3]

I cannot see how you can complain about the wages of any player that comes in on loan, especially from a premier league club. If we buy a player and put him on a wage far greater than what existing players are on then fair comment. Its common knowledge that any premier league player is on far more money than our players are on.
If a club loans us a player, then we have to pay him his wages unless the parent club agrees to pay some as did Leicester last season. If West ham are saying we will have to pay all Fletchers wages then so be it.


Well let's apply this to our own working life .

The company you work for hires an agency worker to work alongside you on double what you earn , how would you feel ?


Alternatively you are a young kid still learning the job you are employed to do , the company hires a very experienced operator with a sound and established work record who you can learn much from , look up to and aspire to , would you begrudge him the extra money in the same way as the agency worker who has the same experience and age you have .

[DOOALI]

Top and bottom we can't pay championship wages even some Lg 1 clubs pay more than us.Why do you think we're relying on loans and lower Lg players and hoping they cut it in championship.Then we'll sell them and we start all over again.If bfc want championship football and a quote from top brass saying"it's where we belong" there will definitely have to be a different outlook and hopefully soon

[animallittle3]

Fair point mate. I think the fact that they were foreign didn't help either and i don't use that term in a stereotypical way. I think hristov is the perfect example of a young unproven striker coming in for a big transfer fee and wages. Was he any better than the strikers we already had? Probably not.

Maybe players like Ward and Barnard came in on bigger money but our promotion players had instant respect for them because they knew all about them. Tinkler, Georgi, Marksted, Krizan etc were an unknown quantity simply because they were foreign yet expectations of them were high. Having seen them in training and how the season went they failed to deliver and you can understand discontent in the camp. Our foreign contingent contributed very little when you think about it.

Funny because De Zeeuw, Clint and jovo who were crucial to the promotion squad but were more than likely sharing parity in the wages with the rest of the lads. It's a very shrewd point you make Animal.

Unity is our strength, absolutely ***** is the spirit in this camp. Young lads who probably wear their hearts on their sleeves and probably are lacking in rational thought wouldn't welcome a player who still has much to prove yet is getting double the dough. Its a poser.

Should West Ham perhaps share the wages of Fletch with us then it may well ease any possible volatile situation. It's all hypothetical but in reality i think whoever loans him will have to pay his money, should that be a leeds, Derby, forest etc it's certainly not a problem to them. Certainly gives food for thought

Not one of Danny's better man management day's .

At the point the club was being handed the cash and a PL club he had John Dennis eating out of the palm of his hand and probably wouldn't question anything he did .

I like to think Hecky's got a bit more oil in his lamp mate .

[Ponte_Steve24]

Animal your comparing football with the real world. The reality is that football has lost touch with reality. I agree with Dooali sign the lad and pay him 8k a week. With the money we have in the bank 416k over year is a drop in ocean with money in bank. Your said yourself if we're relegated with all that wonga there'd be someone wants fcuking.

[animallittle3]

Animal your comparing football with the real world. The reality is that football has lost touch with reality. I agree with Dooali sign the lad and pay him 8k a week. With the money we have in the bank 416k over year is a drop in ocean with money in bank. Your said yourself if we're relegated with all that wonga there'd be someone wants fcuking.

Well only in part steve as I've shown an example from 97 on how things can go with players and money .

You have to handle this very carefully mate or you risk mutiny in the dressing room .

We know the Ash Fletcher from our league one days and he's done nothing of note since and he's relatively untested .

The weekly wage isn't the issue steve it's the affect it has on the senior players who have contributed last season in establishing ourselves in the championship .

If the club brought in Chris Wood or Tom Ince on 8k a week through a loan then that's credible because they have the numbers to back the wage up with .

If we were putting in half of the lads wages then we'd get away with it because aren't in control of his West Ham earnings and it still fits our wage structure .

[EastStandRed]

All football clubs pay their players different though. They'll be probably over £5k a week difference between some of our lads . It's the way it is in football . The difference with football to real life is they're constantly assessed on performance and have to perform to earn they're next contract which could be doubled or tripled.

The pay wouldn't annoy me so much it's if players come in who are guaranteed a certain number of games playing that would bug me

[asbin]

Animal
That's a ridiculous comparison. Are you saying every loanee we get has to take a drop in wages if they are paid more by their parent club ?
The fact is that the two clubs either share the players wages or the club acquiring the loanee agrees to pay the players wages in full.

[animallittle3]

Animal
That's a ridiculous comparison. Are you saying every loanee we get has to take a drop in wages if they are paid more by their parent club ?
The fact is that the two clubs either share the players wages or the club acquiring the loanee agrees to pay the players wages in full.

No not at all , I'm saying there are some loans with a track record in the championship worth 8k a week and then there's Ashley Fletcher whose done nowt above league one level .

I'd have the lad back in a flash but he wouldn't be getting twice as much as Andy Yiadom , Angus Macdonald or Davies in goal every week , 4k tops , that's not a bad wedge at 21 years old with nowt on his CV as such .

[Ponte_Steve24]

Fair point Animal. Although there comes a point where with money in the bank a little speculation wouldn't go amiss here n' there.

[animallittle3]

Fair point Animal. Although there comes a point where with money in the bank a little speculation wouldn't go amiss here n' there.

Fecking hell steve we own speculation mate , there's 5 million quid riding on this crop over the next 9 months .

If tha paying out more then tha wants more pedigree for thi dosh , that's all I'm saying mate .

[Ponte_Steve24]

That senegalese lad has a bit of pedigree mate. I wouldn't be disappointed if we signed him based on his Russian spell.

[Hodger1957]

I think a lot depends on the character and attitude of the loanee.
I was really impressed with Fletcher away at Fleetwood. He didn't play that well in a poor team performance but he chased everything down and put more effort in than anyone that day.
It's one thing experienced old pro's like Redders & Eaden getting pissed off, but most of our present squad arrived recently from non league/lower league and we probably trebled their wages not that long ago. To expect parity with a loanee from the Prem would be a bit rich. They would also benefit from any win bonuses he helped them win. If he delivers on the pitch I can't see how they can complain. Surely if he proved to be a dud we could terminate the loan

[EastStandRed]

It's a good job they didn't want parity with Matty James :O

[animallittle3]

It's a good job they didn't want parity with Matty James :O

Well he was another one wasn't he , we knew from day one we hadn't a cat in hells chance of signing him and the loan was as much about benefiting Leicester City as it was helping us out after Hourihane left .

Would paying his full wages for 4 months sat well with everyone because it wouldn't with me .

[Acido]

Ask ourselves if the total of his wages would be worth it over the course of the whole season ? (and some fans might have already mentioned this as an example)
We know what Ash is all about and if we played to his strengths and he got 10+ goals and helped towards us staying up for another season at least, surely the money coming from that would go well towards the outlay on his wages.
I dont like the idea of breaking the bank for one player and I would hope it wont cause unrest with the players we've got on less money. But if Ash and Wet Spam are happy with him coming here for the season, Id say we should make the effort and pay the 7k a week.

[Ponte_Steve24]

Yeah but in grand scheme of things Matty James did naff all Animal. Where as Fletcher contributed to our first cup final win in 104 years and a promotion. That's if it's where you're drawing your comparison mate

[animallittle3]

Ask ourselves if the total of his wages would be worth it over the course of the whole season ? (and some fans might have already mentioned this as an example)
We know what Ash is all about and if we played to his strengths and he got 10+ goals and helped towards us staying up for another season at least, surely the money coming from that would go well towards the outlay on his wages.
I dont like the idea of breaking the bank for one player and I would hope it wont cause unrest with the players we've got on less money. But if Ash and Wet Spam are happy with him coming here for the season, Id say we should make the effort and pay the 7k a week.

You know what acido I'd take the risk on him doing the business and our senior players accepting his wages if I thought we could sign him permanently .

The fact that he'd be on double bubble and not our player doesn't sit right with me , especially given he's unproven at this level .

[Kevthetyke]

Just out of curiosity does anybody know what we are paying any of our players, for instance mowatt must be on a quite high wage even with a pay cut he wouldnt have signed for that much difference surely.

[Acido]

You know what acido I'd take the risk on him doing the business and our senior players accepting his wages if I thought we could sign him permanently. The fact that he'd be on double bubble and not our player doesn't sit right with me , especially given he's unproven at this level .

Woohh thats opened up a new can of worms there Animal lol.
It has crossed my mind as well that what if we do have him on loan, and if he does really well, wont it be hard for us saying goodbye to him when he goes back to his 'parent club' all over again.
So what are the chances of this being made permanant ? I just cant see it but I really rate the kid and it would be brilliant if we could agree to that.
And by the way I might have been a bit harsh on him last night when I suggested hes probably not given us a minutes thought since the play off final.

[animallittle3]

Just out of curiosity does anybody know what we are paying any of our players, for instance mowatt must be on a quite high wage even with a pay cut he wouldnt have signed for that much difference surely.

I've no idea personally mate other than Hammill was or still is our top earner .

[animallittle3]

Woohh thats opened up a new can of worms there Animal lol.
It has crossed my mind as well that what if we do have him on loan, and if he does really well, wont it be hard for us saying goodbye to him when he goes back to his 'parent club' all over again.
So what are the chances of this being made permanant ? I just cant see it but I really rate the kid and it would be brilliant if we could agree to that.
And by the way I might have been a bit harsh on him last night when I suggested hes probably not given us a minutes thought since the play off final.


It never looked the greatest move when he joined the Hammers , he was and clearly still is well short of the ability to cut it at PL level .

He's still very raw in my opinion but having said that he would benefit greatly by stepping down a level to a smaller club such as ourselves who will put more effort and time into getting the best out of the ability he has .

These lads go to PL clubs but they seem in my opinion just a shirt number , they have so much money the effort and the time doesn't go into their development as much as it does here , sink or swim is the gist of it .

Confidence is huge and it can take a beating at PL clubs for young lads and they can easily feel undervalued .

We give them a chance and put the necessary in and try and get them improving , that's what we do .

The lad has got ability there's no doubt about that and if anyone can get him to perform and improve then it's us .

[Acido]

What do we all think a Fletcher & Bradshaw partnership might do as 2 up front ?
Maybe one could help out and bring out the best in the other etc, and thats what we always want to see with strike partnerships.

I know we as a club have got a growing reputation these days as a great nurturing club, one where a player from the lower leagues can come to and learn great things until he obviously wants to move onto something bigger and better.
Im sort of proud of that but it pees me off all the same, it makes me feel like we're looked at as a stepping stone for some players who see the pound signs all of a sudden and cant wait to leave.

[animallittle3]

We need a spark up top , badly , Hecky needs a rabbit out of his top hat .

I'll tell you now if this doesn't happen we are going to struggle .

As time ticks on towards the first game it's worrying that we haven't at least another striker in , two would be sweet .

A fortnight to go , let's hope we get a couple in this week .

After the snake went , Watkins saw his contract out and Armstrong went back to Newcastle I thought we may have given this area our best effort considering how Hecky likes to play .

Very worrying that we haven't landed the targets as yet and I sincerely hope we don't end up with just squad fodder , anybody is better than nowt so to speak and a panic decision .

[Acido]

I mentioned on here at the end of June, that the pre-season is here at last and surely we know what our targets are.
But I cant believe that 3 weeks on we are STILL wanting that striker we need. I did think we would have somebody in place for the game at Rotherham on the 29th. :O

[pass_and_move]

We need a spark up top , badly , Hecky needs a rabbit out of his top hat .

I'll tell you now if this doesn't happen we are going to struggle .

As time ticks on towards the first game it's worrying that we haven't at least another striker in , two would be sweet .

A fortnight to go , let's hope we get a couple in this week .

After the snake went , Watkins saw his contract out and Armstrong went back to Newcastle I thought we may have given this area our best effort considering how Hecky likes to play .

Very worrying that we haven't landed the targets as yet and I sincerely hope we don't end up with just squad fodder , anybody is better than nowt so to speak and a panic decision .


Thing is we don't know how negotiations have gone or what's going into it behind the scenes. In a recent interview Hecky said that if we bid for a player and terms can't be agreed for whatever reason then we move on to the next target, simple as that. Maybe we've exhausted our options. To be frank, the longer this saga went on i always felt our main striker would end up being a loanee. If that's the case we may even have to wait until the transfer windows nears it's end to get him in. Clubs are not going to release a player on loan right now because a bid could come in for them until the end of August. Any players we do get in on loan right now will be of similar ilk to ugbo or Ryan Kent, young bairns.


Heckys probably frustrated as hell. He gave biscuit Barry and co a list of targets hoping to get them in early to enable him to work with them and bed them into his pattern and stlye of play. As yet they've failed to deliver on the striker front for whatever reason. It's a cause for concern. We need 2 strikers in imo.

It's hard to say without getting pelters and i'm not normally one to pass judgement wi art giving folk a chance but realistically young Pele is not a viable option, he probably won't pick up the pace of Championship football overnight nor will he get match fit in a hurry. At 18 he may well take 3 months to get summat like, realistically any fan expecting him to be the next Tammy Abraham, step in and do the job instantly is asking a helluva lot. I really hope I'm wrong, as wrong as Alan Hansen was when he rubbished the thought of fergies kids winning owt.

If young Pele comes to our rescue I'd be the first to eat humble pie. Good luck to the lad but i can't help but think he'd be more effective weaning his way into the team gradually, looking on from the bench and learning. This is Championship football, not lg1 or lg2