Some posters

[sherwoodmag]

Are saying that our current squad is worse than the one that got us relegated.I suggest you look at the Squad that started season 2015/16 Players like Sissoko,Obertan,Goufran,Taylor were in that squad how many of them would be first choice now.Would you rather have Sissoko than Ritchie or Cisse for Gayle.Could Taylor get in over Mbemba.The only one of that squad I would have back would be Wijnaldum and he only scored in home games.

[pboromag]

coolo townsend winjanum janmatt cabella and sissoks would all walk into thi side and we havent replaced them with anything as good
even to an extent taylor and jonas

look at our squad all of it near enough dead wood
not one player you would build a side around

not one player would a top 6-8 side want to buy

not oen except maybe gayle would be first choice in a top 12-15 side or s a direct swap

maybe ritchie ,mbemba our right back possibly

but after thatt we are championship players
cause that is what rafa brought for

he didnt buy players except gayle and ritchie that might make the step up add that to we sold the decent players and made 30 mill which we havent spent and were left with the dross that brought us down
colback perez dimmet,lascelles mistertrick etc etc

so our squad is much worse than what we had

[sherwoodmag]

coolo townsend winjanum janmatt cabella and sissoks would all walk into thi side and we havent replaced them with anything as good
even to an extent taylor and jonas

look at our squad all of it near enough dead wood
not one player you would build a side around

not one player would a top 6-8 side want to buy

not oen except maybe gayle would be first choice in a top 12-15 side or s a direct swap

maybe ritchie ,mbemba our right back possibly
J
but after thatt we are championship players
cause that is what rafa brought for

he didnt buy players except gayle and ritchie that might make the step up add that to we sold the decent players and made 30 mill which we havent spent and were left with the dross that brought us down
colback perez dimmet,lascelles mistertrick etc etc

so our squad is much worse than what we had Collo was finished,Sissoko was a One game in 10 player,Jaanmat ok going forward but poor defender.TAYLOR ffs he can't hold down a place in any lower league team,Cabella couldn't hack it the Prem and was sent back to France. Are you sure you don't just play on footy manager.The only decent one you've mentioned is Townsend who Rafa wanted back in January.

[Southerntoon75]

Collo was finished,Sissoko was a One game in 10 player,Jaanmat ok going forward but poor defender.TAYLOR ffs he can't hold down a place in any lower league team,Cabella couldn't hack it the Prem and was sent back to France. Are you sure you don't just play on footy manager.The only decent one you've mentioned is Townsend who Rafa wanted back in January.

And we now have Ritchie instead. On top of everything you've put which I agree with those players mentioned (apart from Taylor) wanted out. We do need transfers but at least this squad we have now seem to get it, want to play for us and the team spirit is excellent

[ex_pat_magpie]

And we now have Ritchie instead. On top of everything you've put which I agree with those players mentioned (apart from Taylor) wanted out. We do need transfers but at least this squad we have now seem to get it, want to play for us and the team spirit is excellent

And you can't put a value on team spirit.

[Andy1981_2]

coolo townsend winjanum janmatt cabella and sissoks would all walk into thi side and we havent replaced them with anything as good
even to an extent taylor and jonas

look at our squad all of it near enough dead wood
not one player you would build a side around

not one player would a top 6-8 side want to buy

not oen except maybe gayle would be first choice in a top 12-15 side or s a direct swap

maybe ritchie ,mbemba our right back possibly

but after thatt we are championship players
cause that is what rafa brought for

he didnt buy players except gayle and ritchie that might make the step up add that to we sold the decent players and made 30 mill which we havent spent and were left with the dross that brought us down
colback perez dimmet,lascelles mistertrick etc etc

so our squad is much worse than what we had

OK, let's run with this little thought experiment of yours then pboro... where did those players go, and how did they do? Answers below:

coolo - Coloccini went to San Lorenzo, a mid-table team in the Argentinian league and his boyhood club, and yet only managed twelve appearances and has been told to find another club to play for (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dream-move-gone-sour-sad-13334148) Don't see him getting into ANY Premier League side, let alone a top 15 side.

townsend - Andros Townsend went to Palace, where he has, by all accounts, struggled to produce the form he showed toward the end of his time at Newcastle. Palace finished 14th in the league, so I guess he sneaks into a top 15 team thanks to the good work of some of his teammates.

winjanum - No arguments here, Wijnaldum went to Liverpool who are a top side. Shaky start, but started to find a place in Klopp's system by the end of the season.

janmatt - Went to Watford, made 26 appearances in the league for a team who finished 17th (so OUTSIDE the top 15).

cabella - Has played for one PL team, who finished 15th (that was us). Didn't seem to be a huge amount of interest in any other PL side taking him on, so we had to lend him to Marseille to get shot. Publicly said he couldn't handle the style of play in the PL.

sissoks - Well, he DID go to a good team that finished in the top 15. However, was quickly found out - by early December, his own manager was publicly criticising him by name. How often does that happen?

taylor - Went to a pub league in the US. Came back, played 3 times for Ipswich, and they decided against offering him a long-term contract. Last seen on trial at Doncaster Rovers.

jonas - Had a chance at a PL club with Norwich and a manager who knew and liked him, didn't make the grade. Back in Argentina for a mid-table team in their top division, managed half a season.

Doesn't seem like many of those guys have hit dizzying heights since they left - why think they're better than what we have?

[Jammy89]

And you can't put a value on team spirit.

Agree with this.

Even if the players who left are better in some people's opinion the team spirit is much better now and i think that will carry us in some games.

I know that Pboro has said it'll go very quickly if we start losing games but personally i don't think it will, think we've got quite a strong spirited squad.

[Nufc24Mag]

OK, let's run with this little thought experiment of yours then pboro... where did those players go, and how did they do? Answers below:

coolo - Coloccini went to San Lorenzo, a mid-table team in the Argentinian league and his boyhood club, and yet only managed twelve appearances and has been told to find another club to play for (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dream-move-gone-sour-sad-13334148) Don't see him getting into ANY Premier League side, let alone a top 15 side.

townsend - Andros Townsend went to Palace, where he has, by all accounts, struggled to produce the form he showed toward the end of his time at Newcastle. Palace finished 14th in the league, so I guess he sneaks into a top 15 team thanks to the good work of some of his teammates.

winjanum - No arguments here, Wijnaldum went to Liverpool who are a top side. Shaky start, but started to find a place in Klopp's system by the end of the season.

janmatt - Went to Watford, made 26 appearances in the league for a team who finished 17th (so OUTSIDE the top 15).

cabella - Has played for one PL team, who finished 15th (that was us). Didn't seem to be a huge amount of interest in any other PL side taking him on, so we had to lend him to Marseille to get shot. Publicly said he couldn't handle the style of play in the PL.

sissoks - Well, he DID go to a good team that finished in the top 15. However, was quickly found out - by early December, his own manager was publicly criticising him by name. How often does that happen?

taylor - Went to a pub league in the US. Came back, played 3 times for Ipswich, and they decided against offering him a long-term contract. Last seen on trial at Doncaster Rovers.

jonas - Had a chance at a PL club with Norwich and a manager who knew and liked him, didn't make the grade. Back in Argentina for a mid-table team in their top division, managed half a season.

Doesn't seem like many of those guys have hit dizzying heights since they left - why think they're better than what we have?

Couldn't of put it better myself and the only players that had any kind of affection for the club was Taylor colo and jonas the rest were mercenaries and I never want another player like them in our club again

[pboromag]

OK, let's run with this little thought experiment of yours then pboro... where did those players go, and how did they do? Answers below:

coolo - Coloccini went to San Lorenzo, a mid-table team in the Argentinian league and his boyhood club, and yet only managed twelve appearances and has been told to find another club to play for (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dream-move-gone-sour-sad-13334148) Don't see him getting into ANY Premier League side, let alone a top 15 side.

townsend - Andros Townsend went to Palace, where he has, by all accounts, struggled to produce the form he showed toward the end of his time at Newcastle. Palace finished 14th in the league, so I guess he sneaks into a top 15 team thanks to the good work of some of his teammates.

winjanum - No arguments here, Wijnaldum went to Liverpool who are a top side. Shaky start, but started to find a place in Klopp's system by the end of the season.

janmatt - Went to Watford, made 26 appearances in the league for a team who finished 17th (so OUTSIDE the top 15).

cabella - Has played for one PL team, who finished 15th (that was us). Didn't seem to be a huge amount of interest in any other PL side taking him on, so we had to lend him to Marseille to get shot. Publicly said he couldn't handle the style of play in the PL.

sissoks - Well, he DID go to a good team that finished in the top 15. However, was quickly found out - by early December, his own manager was publicly criticising him by name. How often does that happen?

taylor - Went to a pub league in the US. Came back, played 3 times for Ipswich, and they decided against offering him a long-term contract. Last seen on trial at Doncaster Rovers.

jonas - Had a chance at a PL club with Norwich and a manager who knew and liked him, didn't make the grade. Back in Argentina for a mid-table team in their top division, managed half a season.

Doesn't seem like many of those guys have hit dizzying heights since they left - why think they're better than what we have?

we aren't talking about when they left we are talking abouth when they were here
the original post asks wether staylor made any difference ,well he didn't as he was mainly injured that season

collo was still miles better than anything we had and apart from mbemba I still think the yer he went he was better than anything we have currently

so you can say that a few of them went to top half prem teams

none of our current squad apart from maybe 2 would do that at present

spirit when you are winning is easy to achieve
wait till they start struggling the crowd on their backs which always happens with the toon fans (they even turned on Sir Bobby )
and we will see that spirit shine through I'm sure

you have to remember players are here for the money they don't give a ****e about the club or the fans ,spirits will soon go down when the ****e hits the fans

they did in the prem last time

[TheOtherTerryMac]

we aren't talking about when they left we are talking abouth when they were here
the original post asks wether staylor made any difference ,well he didn't as he was mainly injured that season

collo was still miles better than anything we had and apart from mbemba I still think the yer he went he was better than anything we have currently

so you can say that a few of them went to top half prem teams

none of our current squad apart from maybe 2 would do that at present

spirit when you are winning is easy to achieve
wait till they start struggling the crowd on their backs which always happens with the toon fans (they even turned on Sir Bobby )
and we will see that spirit shine through I'm sure

you have to remember players are here for the money they don't give a ****e about the club or the fans ,spirits will soon go down when the ****e hits the fans

they did in the prem last time

Correct pboro team spirit and togetherness don't mean phuck all in the premiership.

Let's have a poll as to what current player has you on the edge of your seat and the hairs on the back of your neck stick up everytime they have the ball

My answer None

[ex_pat_magpie]

Correct pboro team spirit and togetherness don't mean phuck all in the premiership.

Let's have a poll as to what current player has you on the edge of your seat and the hairs on the back of your neck stick up everytime they have the ball

My answer None

Aye, it would be something if we could pick up a budding Cabaye, Ginola or Robert or even a ben Arfa who could be taken from early in his career and channelled in the right direction. That along with a certain amount of team spirit would hold us in good stead.

[TheOtherTerryMac]

Aye, it would be something if we could pick up a budding Cabaye, Ginola or Robert or even a ben Arfa who could be taken from early in his career and channelled in the right direction. That along with a certain amount of team spirit would hold us in good stead.

Would be nice to have someone that got the whole crowd on their toes but none of the current squad do that for me.

[Andy1981_2]

we aren't talking about when they left we are talking abouth when they were here

In which case I'm a bit confused - if our side was stocked with top 15 players, why did we finish in the bottom 3?

I think you're romanticising the quality of those players to be honest - Colo was finished by the time we went into that final season, both physically and mentally. And even if he was better than Lascelles was then, he wasn't better than Lascelles is now, because he wasn't as strong or as mobile as Lascelles and he was far more error prone. Sure, he could possibly read the game better, experience will do that for you, but what good is it being able to read well if your back is too ****ed to pick up a book?

And you say a few of them went to top half team (2 - Wijnaldum and Sissoko) and that maybe 2 of ours would at present. That's the same number mate, so it doesn't serve your argument at all. And nobody who knew anything about Sissoko thought that he was actually good enough to go to a top side, and it turns out that was true. I think most of us grudgingly accepted Wijnaldum could do it in a better team.

What I do agree with you on is that I don't think we have a player in our side who is at Wijnaldum's standard, which means that our players now fall within a bit of a bell curve. I don't think our worst players are any worse than those who took us down - they are, in some cases, the very same players - but our best players aren't as good. The overall standard is possibly slightly higher for our first 11 in spite of this, in that we have players who are a bit more disciplined in sticking to their task (like Ritchie over Sissoko, Gayle over Cisse). And I think we're adding a little more experience and quality to our cover by signing players like Manquillo (Mbabu was our only cover at RB the season we went down). It's painfully slow progress, and I can understand anyone being frustrated by that when you see what other sides are doing and have done since we were last in the PL, but I think you and TerryMac are totally misguided if you think it was a bunch of PL quality players that took us into the Championship and a bunch of Championship quality players that brought us back into the PL.

[Andy1981_2]

Would be nice to have someone that got the whole crowd on their toes but none of the current squad do that for me.

Would you have Ben Arfa back?

[ranat22]

Correct pboro team spirit and togetherness don't mean phuck all in the premiership.

Let's have a poll as to what current player has you on the edge of your seat and the hairs on the back of your neck stick up everytime they have the ball

My answer None


team spirit and togetherness won leicister the premier league title!

[Southerntoon75]

team spirit and togetherness won leicister the premier league title!
👏👏

[pboromag]

team spirit and togetherness won leicister the premier league title!

they had some decent players to be fare
solid back 4 a couple of goal scorers and top lad who went on to win the title again with chelsea

we have at best 2-3 players that would amake atop 10-15 team

[NorthernRock]

team spirit and togetherness won leicister the premier league title!

:star:

[smorgan86]

I personally think it was important to get the poison out of the squad and let anyone with the wrong attitude leave. That seems to be done but I have to agree that we're missing a lot of quality. I think we have a decent spine but we're missing some key positions.
Central midfield could use some help, our number 10 is still up in the air (is it Perez, Diame or De Jong?) 1 up front good enough to get us through the season? Left back is still not sorted and the signings we've brought in seem to be squad players.

Have to agree with pboro that not many of our players are wanted by our competition which means that we're clearly missing some quality. A few first team players can fix all that though.

[NorthernRock]

Apparently teams/success are built by names and skill... Not work ethic, team spirit, hard work and cohesion.

Spot on post Andy1981.

FFS you could put a bad spin on anything in life, which is exactly what you're doing when you're criticising the manager, players and their achievements tbh.

Fwiw I think we've got a couple of special players in the making tbh.. Shelvey is excellent on his day and if he can be the man consistently then don't be surprised to see him in the England team and getting plaudits. I see him excelling against better opposition.

Lescelles I know some see him as a bit of a liability at times but I think this lad can really go all the way as our captain. He's not a Bramble, this lads the real deal, again I see him excelling against Prem teams. He'll only keep on improving.

Gayle I hear a lot of people talking about a striker (we do need one) but not to bench Gayle in my opinion, we need one to challenge/partner him... I think people are forgetting he was our main man last season fizzy pop or not.
He's our number 9, Rafa knew what that meant when he signed him and played him as our lone striker, I think people are under-estimating how much Rafa rates him tbh. He's paid and played to score goals, he does, end of. I think a fair few will be surprised with his goal tally (if we have a decent season, which I believe we will). Watch.

DeJong is another player who can change a game but through visions, pass and touch rather than dribbling ability and speed... He could definitely be our locksmith next season, I hope he stays fit.

I agree though, none of the above are the type of player mentioned, we need a player that gets you standing up "go on", someone who can skin players with pace and guile, a spark even when you're sinking underwater... Ben Arfa was that guy at times but I'd never have him back now though, he simply has not got the right attitude for our team.

My realistic choice for a maverick? Adama Troare... I really think Benitez could get the best out of the lad.

Realistically who would you lot want us to buy to make the "difference"?

[TheOtherTerryMac]

Would you have Ben Arfa back?

Ben Arfa was a game changer and really exciting to watch you could hear the crowd roar everytime he got the ball.

I wouldn't have him back because of his attitude but another player like him I would love to see at the Toon.

[pboromag]

Apparently teams/success are built by names and skill... Not work ethic, team spirit, hard work and cohesion.

Spot on post Andy1981.

FFS you could put a bad spin on anything in life, which is exactly what you're doing when you're criticising the manager, players and their achievements tbh.

Fwiw I think we've got a couple of special players in the making tbh.. Shelvey is excellent on his day and if he can be the man consistently then don't be surprised to see him in the England team and getting plaudits. I see him excelling against better opposition.

Lescelles I know some see him as a bit of a liability at times but I think this lad can really go all the way as our captain. He's not a Bramble, this lads the real deal, again I see him excelling against Prem teams. He'll only keep on improving.

Gayle I hear a lot of people talking about a striker (we do need one) but not to bench Gayle in my opinion, we need one to challenge/partner him... I think people are forgetting he was our main man last season fizzy pop or not.
He's our number 9, Rafa knew what that meant when he signed him and played him as our lone striker, I think people are under-estimating how much Rafa rates him tbh. He's paid and played to score goals, he does, end of. I think a fair few will be surprised with his goal tally (if we have a decent season, which I believe we will). Watch.

DeJong is another player who can change a game but through visions, pass and touch rather than dribbling ability and speed... He could definitely be our locksmith next season, I hope he stays fit.

I agree though, none of the above are the type of player mentioned, we need a player that gets you standing up "go on", someone who can skin players with pace and guile, a spark even when you're sinking underwater... Ben Arfa was that guy at times but I'd never have him back now though, he simply has not got the right attitude for our team.

My realistic choice for a maverick? Adama Troare... I really think Benitez could get the best out of the lad.

Realistically who would you lot want us to buy to make the "difference"?

so you say we have 2 decent players and a probable
I agree if gayle gets the service he could score a few

but where is that quality sevice coming from

the new lad looked hopeless Saturday and I really feel the size of the crowd and the fact he is a toon supporter etc etc will get to him

it did Saturday he looked out of his depth agains PNE

shelveey can ping a ball but he wont get time in the prem ,the clever managers who put a man on hi, had him playing on our 18 yard line ,which wont be good for our back 4 .and when he is under pressure again like the good mangers did last season his passes more often than not go astray Norwich away for instance .

and we don't have many hard tacklers and we don't have anyone who can break the game up and de jong to me just needs to much time on the ball

sorry for sounding negative
but everyone and I mean everyone at the end of last season and us going up and with rafa being given assurances would not have thought we would be ware we are now with the players we have brought in

for **** sake we are even being linked to another muppet from hull

I sometimes wonder if rafa knows we went up last season

[Andy1981_2]

I agree if gayle gets the service he could score a few

but where is that quality sevice coming from...

shelveey can ping a ball but he wont get time in the prem ,the clever managers who put a man on hi, had him playing on our 18 yard line ,which wont be good for our back 4 .and when he is under pressure again like the good mangers did last season his passes more often than not go astray Norwich away for instance .


This is the problem - we were one-dimensional last season, so it needs to change this season i.e. we need creative outlets other than Shelvey. There are some reasons to be more positive though. For one, it's clear we've attempted to add width in Murphy, and I wouldn't write him off based on half a pre-season friendly. We also have Aarons as an option this season (at the moment, until another injury strikes). De Jong may be considered an option too, but the jury is very much out on him. We desperately need someone sitting alongside Shelvey in the middle who can free him up to do his thing, and someone to clean up after him when it goes wrong 9 out of 10 times. Delph and Acquah would be two great purchases on that front.

Also, Sam Clucas isn't that bad mate - I have some connections to Hull, so have seen him a fair bit. He's a real grafter, which is the type of player Rafa's (defensive) system needs. Can play at LB too, so might even be an alternative for Dummett. He won't offer much by way of creativity though, so isn't the solution to the problem above.

[NorthernRock]

See now we're talking straight.

I agree that we're one dimensional and I see where Peterborough is coming from but I still think you're not giving our current players enough credit, they can only beat what's in front of them and they did that consistently.

I think once Murphys settled he'll start showing what he's about, lets not forget we've got Aarons and Ritchie on the wings who I think both know how to cross a ball and score a goal, that's not a bad set of wingers at all (still think we need another one though).

Shelvey has already played in the Prem and done well in a decent Swansea team but if he's the focal point of our play I see him doing really well against top opposition, I rate him very highly, admittedly he needs to be on it for a full 90 and those hollywood passes should have their time and place.

Mbemba knows how to tackle and Lejuene is supposed to be good at breaking up play as well, going back to Lescelles I think he's a very good reader of the game and for a young lad he organises the defence competently.

I think we did rely too heavily on Shelvey and we missed him when he was suspended, we need more pace and creativity in our side, but Benitez knows that, he built a team to win the Championship now he needs to mould it into a good Prem team and I personally think he's only 2 or 3 away from doing that, anymore and it will be a bonus for me.

I see us counter-attacking a lot and that means we need more pace in the team, I know Yedlins rapid and Murphy/Aarons are quick but we need it from both angles, hence why I'd like the lad from Middlesbrough in, I think he'd definitely add another dimension to our game and don't be surprised if it happens late on in the summer.

I think we did have certain individuals in the last team who were at a higher standard but overall I think our squad is better/more balanced now and they've certainly got a better spirit amongst them now, team effort and plan is much more solid and consistent so as a TEAM i'd say we're better equipped this time round.

Don't get me wrong though, I want to see more signings and I want them to be top quality, but don't assume because a lads come from Norwich and Elber that they're not gonna be what we need, a bit uninspiring yeah but Rafa is good at building teams and selecting the right players in that system... I'm sure Liverpool fans weren't happy with a fair few of his but most did they're job in the system he established and that is what really makes a difference, not individuals.

I thought Kuyt was shyte but he was one of Benitez's favourite players and for good reason.

When you think about it, how many mavericks did he have in that Liverpool team barring Torres?

[sherwoodmag]

Bump