Our identity

[Poulton Tyke]

Hello! I'm a long time reader, but first time poster!

I've found some of the recent threads about our business model/new identity really interesting so decided to stop being lazy and sign up. I really don't want to appear too negative on my first post, but the Rotherham result and fallout has done it for me! It was a friendly- I get that but it was what was said afterwards. For what it's worth, my take is this.

Because the way football has gone in recent years, I accept that we've dropped from our natural and rightful place as a second tier club and so our response was to come up with a new sustainable business plan which Johnson started (with little/limited success) and Hecky took on (brilliantly). But.... after the inevitable happened and our best players were cherry picked, we are now left stripped bare leaving our manager with a nigh on impossible job, and who now justifiably feels aggrieved to the point he went public on it. For him it must be the equivalent of building a really good house and then seeing it knocked down to be the told... "Roght we're starting over!" We're lucky he is a fan because I can't think of many who'd have not thought about sodding off.

The broader point is though, if this is our "sustainable business model", IMO it's flawed. There is nothing really sustainable about it apart from short term gain. From what I understand, sustainability comes from growth and our growth/continuity is compromised by the terms of the business plan????

I really hope I'm totally wrong and Hecky can work miracles, but I think we're in danger of once again standing still and not adjusting to the market we find ourselves competing in.

Sorry if this is a really negative first post- just felt the need to air my opinions.

[EastStandRed]

Welcome mate . Here's my take on it against Rotherham. Hecky picked his best team and was totally and utterly embarrassed by their display against a League 1 team , so to try and shake them into life he's said they're all cra p and he needs to sign at least another half of a new team . He knows he's short on a few players so used this as a perfect opportunity to give the owner/CEO the pressure and relieve himself of any blame which they are partly to blame but not fully to blame imo.

The team that started the game was this one plus Championship games involved in

Davies 44 Championship games
Yiadom. 34 Championship games
Jackson. 9.Championship games
MacDon. 39 Championship games
Friers. 12 Championship games 19 Premier League games
Isgrove. 8 Championship games
Moncur. 12 Championship games
Mowatt. 127 Championship games
Hammill 206 Championship games 19 Premier League
Ugbo. 0
Bradshaw 32 Championship games

3 players in the side we paid about £1/2milion for

On the bench we'd got
Townsend ... decent reserve goalie
McCarthy.... signed for £200k from Southampton, looks a good player to me
Pinnock.... supposedly cost £800k ?
Williams from Everton ... the only player Hecky praised
Brown .....from the academy did ok against Huddersfield
Sessi
Payne


I just don't get how that side is bare bones and totally inexperienced , we need more players but that side looks decent to me and it's Heckys team as well .

[EastStandRed]

We've also got Lindsay, McGeeham ,Mallan and Hedges who he's also signed for a combined £1.5m aprox and Kpekawa who we signed for £450k and let go for nowt

[EastStandRed]

I'm not Hecky bashing and I hope he stays for years and years as our HC but put your violins away lads. He's had more money to play with than practically any other manager we've had . He's had a short straw having to rebuild the team but the club gave him a chance to get into management when he'd no previous experience and he'll be paid quite handsomely for it . All this I'm surprised he hasn't jacked in talk is crazy . Who walks away from a well paid job just cause it gets a bit rough every now and again !

[Jules88]

Welcome mate . Here's my take on it against Rotherham. Hecky picked his best team and was totally and utterly embarrassed by their display against a League 1 team , so to try and shake them into life he's said they're all cra p and he needs to sign at least another half of a new team . He knows he's short on a few players so used this as a perfect opportunity to give the owner/CEO the pressure and relieve himself of any blame which they are partly to blame but not fully to blame imo.

The team that started the game was this one plus Championship games involved in

Davies 44 Championship games
Yiadom. 34 Championship games
Jackson. 9.Championship games
MacDon. 39 Championship games
Friers. 12 Championship games 19 Premier League games
Isgrove. 8 Championship games
Moncur. 12 Championship games
Mowatt. 127 Championship games
Hammill 206 Championship games 19 Premier League
Ugbo. 0
Bradshaw 32 Championship games

3 players in the side we paid about £1/2milion for

On the bench we'd got
Townsend ... decent reserve goalie
McCarthy.... signed for £200k from Southampton, looks a good player to me
Pinnock.... supposedly cost £800k ?
Williams from Everton ... the only player Hecky praised
Brown .....from the academy did ok against Huddersfield
Sessi
Payne


I just don't get how that side is bare bones and totally inexperienced , we need more players but that side looks decent to me and it's Heckys team as well .

Good post mate

[Jules88]

I'm not Hecky bashing and I hope he stays for years and years as our HC but put your violins away lads. He's had more money to play with than practically any other manager we've had . He's had a short straw having to rebuild the team but the club gave him a chance to get into management when he'd no previous experience and he'll be paid quite handsomely for it . All this I'm surprised he hasn't jacked in talk is crazy . Who walks away from a well paid job just cause it gets a rough every now and again !

And again

[renno]

my take on it is this - we all know PH faces a massive task this coming season to keep us up - the comments have done nothing to help anyone but serve more as a worry to some sections of supporters. It does nothing to galvanise the club. PH would get no less thought of (I'm assuming) by fans if we did go down - we know his constraints and arguably so did he when he took the gig and subsequently got promoted. I think his comments we're as I said before to give a rocket to some players - He has defended everyone to the hilt upto press and they might now know that if he's actually peeved then they have definately overstepped the mark. His comments seem more as a fan than the manager (old habits die hard!).

Do Burton get the same rumblings from Nigel Clough ? (I dont know the answer to that but they face as big a problem as us in stopping up)

Why not play on the 'its only Barnsley' attitude alot of teams have when we rock up to their ground.

Lets be honest I cant think of many other home grounds where win,lose or draw players will get clapped off at half and full time.

Thats why I think we should go back to the 442 up and at 'em game because for me that epitomised what as a town we're about - getting stuck in and shoving it up 'em!

As for the OP and our 'rightful place' theres no such thing in any walk of life. Industries are constantly evolving and you have to move wit the times - that unfortunately can be an attitude that drags you down - Bournemouths rightful place if you were to look at history is certainly not the top tier of english football.

what PH has to remember is that he is getting paid to be frustrated - we pay to be frustrated!

[Jules88]

"what PH has to remember is that he is getting paid to be frustrated - we pay to be frustrated "

Some great early morning posts today

[Poulton Tyke]

Welcome mate . Here's my take on it against Rotherham. Hecky picked his best team and was totally and utterly embarrassed by their display against a League 1 team , so to try and shake them into life he's said they're all cra p and he needs to sign at least another half of a new team . He knows he's short on a few players so used this as a perfect opportunity to give the owner/CEO the pressure and relieve himself of any blame which they are partly to blame but not fully to blame imo.

The team that started the game was this one plus Championship games involved in

Davies 44 Championship games
Yiadom. 34 Championship games
Jackson. 9.Championship games
MacDon. 39 Championship games
Friers. 12 Championship games 19 Premier League games
Isgrove. 8 Championship games
Moncur. 12 Championship games
Mowatt. 127 Championship games
Hammill 206 Championship games 19 Premier League
Ugbo. 0
Bradshaw 32 Championship games

3 players in the side we paid about £1/2milion for

On the bench we'd got
Townsend ... decent reserve goalie
McCarthy.... signed for £200k from Southampton, looks a good player to me
Pinnock.... supposedly cost £800k ?
Williams from Everton ... the only player Hecky praised
Brown .....from the academy did ok against Huddersfield
Sessi
Payne


I just don't get how that side is bare bones and totally inexperienced , we need more players but that side looks decent to me and it's Heckys team as well .

Ta for the welcome East Stand. I take your point re the 11, but I'm not really suggesting hecky hasn't spent the money, I just think it's unrealistic to build a brand new team in pre-season and how we as fans, have got to accept that this is the way we do things at Oakwell. I can't think of any other club in the 92 that's had to rebuild on such a major scale in such a short space of time- that's my main point, not the relative quality or otherwise of the players. Seems to me a business model which ends up with you having to completely reboot every time you get a modicum of success needs looking at.

[Jonnyboy501]

Can't afford to go back to 4-4-2 formation after all the midfielders we've bought. 1-8-1's the way to go.😄

[EastStandRed]

Ta for the welcome East Stand. I take your point re the 11, but I'm not really suggesting hecky hasn't spent the money, I just think it's unrealistic to build a brand new team in pre-season and how we as fans, have got to accept that this is the way we do things at Oakwell. I can't think of any other club in the 92 that's had to rebuild on such a major scale in such a short space of time- that's my main point, not the relative quality or otherwise of the players. Seems to me a business model which ends up with you having to completely reboot every time you get a modicum of success needs looking at.

I think this season has been a one off where all the players contracts were up at once and weren't renewed due to the quick rise up the league and players refusing to re sign once they got down to the last year . All the new signings are tied down to three year deals and we now seem to have a decent CEO so hopefully we won't get in the same situation again.

[Poulton Tyke]

East Stand and others, I take your points. I know Hecky gets well paid for the job he does and I know he's been given a decent budget so I'm not really suggesting he hasn't spent the money, I just think it's unrealistic and unfair to the coach to expect him to build a brand new team in pre-season and also unfair to us the fans, if we now just have to accept that this is the way we do things at Oakwell. I can't think of any other club in the 92 that's had to rebuild on such a major scale in such a short space of time.

Personnel to one side, we're starting over and seeing what happens. Seems to me the sort of business model which ends up with you having to reboot every time you get a modicum of success needs looking at going forward.

[EastStandRed]

Anyway make sure you get your prediction in Poulton

[animallittle3]

Hello! I'm a long time reader, but first time poster!

I've found some of the recent threads about our business model/new identity really interesting so decided to stop being lazy and sign up. I really don't want to appear too negative on my first post, but the Rotherham result and fallout has done it for me! It was a friendly- I get that but it was what was said afterwards. For what it's worth, my take is this.

Because the way football has gone in recent years, I accept that we've dropped from our natural and rightful place as a second tier club and so our response was to come up with a new sustainable business plan which Johnson started (with little/limited success) and Hecky took on (brilliantly). But.... after the inevitable happened and our best players were cherry picked, we are now left stripped bare leaving our manager with a nigh on impossible job, and who now justifiably feels aggrieved to the point he went public on it. For him it must be the equivalent of building a really good house and then seeing it knocked down to be the told... "Roght we're starting over!" We're lucky he is a fan because I can't think of many who'd have not thought about sodding off.

The broader point is though, if this is our "sustainable business model", IMO it's flawed. There is nothing really sustainable about it apart from short term gain. From what I understand, sustainability comes from growth and our growth/continuity is compromised by the terms of the business plan????

I really hope I'm totally wrong and Hecky can work miracles, but I think we're in danger of once again standing still and not adjusting to the market we find ourselves competing in.

Sorry if this is a really negative first post- just felt the need to air my opinions.


Welcome to the board mate and a very good entrance if I may say so .

Here's my take on the Hecky fit following the debacle on saturday .

It's all about receiving back word in my opinion that's got Hecky going .

I think Hecky can live with the plan and all the difficulties that's presented this summer , but don't start ripping the pyss out of him by promising this that and the other , he's a barnsley lad and we don't take too kindly to folk doing a bull shyte number on us .

Cast your minds back to late last year and the words " we are not under pressure to sell " coming from the Oakwell oval office .

I know Hecky didn't want to lose anyone I'm sure , why would he sitting a point outside the top 6 ? , Hecky wanted to add Morsy to the squad , fee agreed , you know the rest .

Next thing the snakes done one to S6 , helped by the CEO who is quickly dispensed with , no 20 goal striker and no CEO to help him find a replacement .

A week or two later , the captain and promising young full back are off to Villa Park , we've just tonked Leeds 3-2 in front of the sky cameras in a pulsating game , Hecky bites his lip , play off dream gone in a flash , wtf .

At some meeting later in the season Hecky lays it on the line , this coming summer I need XYZ , no problem say the suits you'll get what you need , we will back you .

Sometime between said sit down and the NYS debacle the suits have been avoiding our head coach , nobody is around the club , Hecky can't get a straight answer from anyone on said promises .

Hecky bites his lip , there isn't much of it left by this time .

He soldiers on knowing full well he's pyssing in the wind with the Mo , Baz and The Zuk , the new CEO is still trying to locate the cheque book , maybe The Don's saving it for PC in his safe , what's the combination Don ? , fcuk knows I've never had to use the fcuker .

A spineless display in the last friendly hits the spot , it's incredible hulk time , " you won't like me when I get angry " , clearly .

Out it all pours and it's been coming since the snake did one in January .

Tell you here and now , Saturday's little moment was a game changer , I think Hecky will remain at the club but this isn't the one of us Hecky we've all come to love and respect .

The Hecky post saturday is biding his time and when the right opportunity arises it's fcuk this for a game of soldiers , it's number one and Hecky time .

Si thi Baz and Mo .

[Poulton Tyke]

Welcome to the board mate and a very good entrance if I may say so .

Here's my take on the Hecky fit following the debacle on saturday .

It's all about receiving back word in my opinion that's got Hecky going .

I think Hecky can live with the plan and all the difficulties that's presented this summer , but don't start ripping the pyss out of him by promising this that and the other , he's a barnsley lad and we don't take too kindly to folk doing a bull shyte number on us .

Cast your minds back to late last year and the words " we are not under pressure to sell " coming from the Oakwell oval office .

I know Hecky didn't want to lose anyone I'm sure , why would he sitting a point outside the top 6 ? , Hecky wanted to add Morsy to the squad , fee agreed , you know the rest .

Next thing the snakes done one to S6 , helped by the CEO who is quickly dispensed with , no 20 goal striker and no CEO to help him find a replacement .

A week or two later , the captain and promising young full back are off to Villa Park , we've just tonked Leeds 3-2 in front of the sky cameras in a pulsating game , Hecky bites his lip , play off dream gone in a flash , wtf .

At some meeting later in the season Hecky lays it on the line , this coming summer I need XYZ , no problem say the suits you'll get what you need , we will back you .

Sometime between said sit down and the NYS debacle the suits have been avoiding our head coach , nobody is around the club , Hecky can't get a straight answer from anyone on said promises .

Hecky bites his lip , there isn't much of it left by this time .

He soldiers on knowing full well he's pyssing in the wind with the Mo , Baz and The Zuk , the new CEO is still trying to locate the cheque book , maybe The Don's saving it for PC in his safe , what's the combination Don ? , fcuk knows I've never had to use the fcuker .

A spineless display in the last friendly hits the spot , it's incredible hulk time , " you won't like me when I get angry " , clearly .

Out it all pours and it's been coming since the snake did one in January .

Tell you here and now , Saturday's little moment was a game changer , I think Hecky will remain at the club but this isn't the one of us Hecky we've all come to love and respect .

The Hecky post saturday is biding his time and when the right opportunity arises it's fcuk this for a game of soldiers , it's number one and Hecky time .

Si thi Baz and Mo .


Wow! Strong stuff that animal and though much of the detail may be slightly tongue in cheek, I've got to say, it's pretty much exactly how I read the situation. It's alright everyone saying Hecky's been given a budget, and a framework and of course he is well paid for the work he's doing, but that is by the by in my book. If, as he strongly suggested in THAT interview, promises made to him have not been kept- then he can be justifiably peed off with the goings on. His managerial stock is high and recognised so don't let's pretend his clear unfaltering loyalty to the club he supports, would get in the way of some Rick owner tripling his wages- particularly if as you say- he feels he's been 'unsupported' by his playing staff or the men above him in the post pin striped suits.

IMO, the club could have addressed the wage structure in place half way through last season when it was clear we were staying up and clearer still we were going to lose our top talent in January. This may or may not have kept a few of the remaining 'proven' players at the club. I'm not saying to the point where we "gamble" - but just send out a message to the likes of the since departed Scowen, Watkins et al, that your time with us was appreciated and is now reflected in increased terms. If we never take that step, we'll never make that step.

[renno]

I keep saying to other folk (in person on on the forums) that we need to pay him the going rate - I have no idea what he earns but if he's the right man for the gig give him a salary befitting of the task in hand and what other managers around are being paid - you thne might get a different response to the goings on behind the scenes. I get his frustrations but until we see how we go on week in and week out we simply cant comment on the ability of the signings. Training ground kickabouts and the mindset of a player on matchday for me are 2 totally separate beasts. Some of the greatest players ever lived very rarely trained well - so heres hoping!!

[Poulton Tyke]

I keep saying to other folk (in person on on the forums) that we need to pay him the going rate - I have no idea what he earns but if he's the right man for the gig give him a salary befitting of the task in hand and what other managers around are being paid - you thne might get a different response to the goings on behind the scenes. I get his frustrations but until we see how we go on week in and week out we simply cant comment on the ability of the signings. Training ground kickabouts and the mindset of a player on matchday for me are 2 totally separate beasts. Some of the greatest players ever lived very rarely trained well - so heres hoping!!


Can't argue with that mate and I for one will be giving all the new lads 100% backing as long as they're playing for the shirt. I just hope the club has learned a bit from last season, and the ones from the new crop that emerge and establish themselves are incentivised to stay with us for longer than a season and a half. Anyhow- I've said my piece... I'm off to work! Peace, love and Eccles cakes.