Non footy-China!!

[Balanbam00]

I see in yahoo ( https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-ups-ante-high-altitude-standoff-india-022759882.html )
That tension is growing on the Indian - Chinese border.
Calling for the "immediate and unconditional" withdrawal of Indian troops, it warned Beijing would "take all necessary measures" to safeguard its interests.

Get ready for a Chinese -Indian war, coming anytime soon ,it must, even before winter starts !! China have already taken islands in the South China sea. They have taken and who can stop them? Expansion policy's work!!!

Crossing the Himalaya's and sizing the plane north of Dehli, they will stop the water flowing into the city etc . Having no water all will leave Dehli, This will cause the largest migration in the worlds history!!
Because of the land mass and each nations potential, the war will drag on some 4 years !!!

Who said it somewhere : "We will just continue to bimble along from crisis to crisis and we will just have to get on with it. C'est la vie!"
"We live in dangerous times. (TEC ).....Very very dangerous!!!

...." "how much they can get away with, in a region that is unlikely to draw the involvement of other major powers such as the US?"

[sinkov]

Especially dangerous in this case as both countries have a nuclear capability, you really don't want this one to get out of hand. Still it could put to the test the theory that nuclear weapons are a deterrent to war. We'll see, or perhaps we won't see anything at all, if they're not.

[Balanbam00]

Hi Sinkov, not being in a military frame of mind , I would say leaders ask their generals whats the options ,perhaps being? a) To have air superiority,then to be able to bomb strategic enemy positions at will. B) To have an excellent air defense system against incoming rockets. That could stop a war but here the question is what are China's gains ? What does she want? If her plan is to take the whole northern Indian plane, ,to be able to grow food to feed its population, a billion and more Chinese? Of course, I am not in China ,but is she effected by insufficient water irrigation systems, poor land crop growing areas (soil ) and natural disasters (floods ,drought etc)? ??

There will be war if not now after the winter I think before.

[Balanbam00]

Oh! and India has just been on a shopping spree here in Israel,what do you think it bought ?

[Altobelli]

Is this another super power flexing its military muscles instead of trying to reach an agreement amicably ?

[sinkov]

And then there's the great imponderable, what will the leader of the world's great superpower think about all this, if he thinks at all. And having thought, what will he do, they're still the world's policeman.

[map]

I live in China, I have for almost 12 years.
I find the comment "China have already taken islands in the South China sea", a little strange.
How does a country take islands that are in their territorial waters ?
I think that Britain is guilty of invading countries and enforcing their laws etc.
As for India....I've also lived there, believe me, India will never pose a threat to China nor any other country.
Of course just my opinion....

[Altobelli]

I'd hoped you'd reply to this thread map, thanks, hope you and yours are keeping well :)

[map]

Thanks for your reply too....I did not wish to be confrontational, I just feel that it is ridiculous that some posters base their opinions from what they read on various internet sites without any consideration for the true facts.

[Balanbam00]

Map:
( "I find the comment "China have already taken islands in the South China sea", a little strange.)

Philippines v. China (PCA case number 2013–19), also known as the South China Sea Arbitration, was an arbitration case brought by the Republic of the Philippines against the People’s Republic of China under Annex VII to the United Nations.

On 12 July 2016, the tribunal ruled in favor of the Philippines. It clarified that it would not "...rule on any question of sovereignty over land territory and would not delimit any maritime boundary between the Parties" The tribunal also ruled that China has "no historical rights" based on the "nine-dash line" map.

The Philippines contended that the "nine-dotted line" claim by China is invalid because it violates the UNCLOS agreements about exclusive economic zones and territorial seas. It says that because most of the features in the South China Sea, such as most of the Spratly Islands, cannot sustain life, they cannot be given their own continental shelf as defined in the convention.

Beijing has moved aggressively in recent years to cement its claims to most of the South China Sea, assert military control over the waters and thus weaken US influence.
China has built islands and airstrips on reefs and islets in the Spratlys archipelago, a strategic location in the southern part of the sea.
A US-based think tank released photos in December showing Beijing appeared to have installed weapons systems at its outposts in the area.
Because of its position, another military outpost at Scarborough Shoal is seen as the last major physical step required to secure control of the sea.
An outpost at the shoal would also put Chinese fighter jets and missiles within easy striking distance of US forces stationed in the Philippines.
The shoal also commands the northeast exit of the sea, so a Chinese military outpost there could stop other countries' navies from using the ***** stretch of waters.

So Map the true facts: Would you disagree that China has used the islands as fishing grounds but never taken control over it ?Many Nations have fished there so it has been like that in their history! If China controlled those islands ,why let other Nations fish there? But only now when they know that the islands are rich in minerals ,oil and gas??

Is it a fact President Xi Jinping said 4 days ago, ''China will never permit loss of ‘any piece’ of land'' (a one-hour speech in Beijing marking the 90th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army?) The speech followed a parade Sunday at a training ground on the edge of the Gobi Desert during which Xi donned fatigues and declared that the military has the "confidence and capability" to ensure China's sovereignty, security and national interests. Xi, has frequently spoken of his "China Dream" to restore China to a leadership position in international affairs with a modern, far-reaching military force to match.

However, China is currently engaged in a weeks-long border standoff with Indian forces near the countries' disputed border high in the Himalayas, with Chinese spokesmen demanding that Indian troops withdraw to avoid a clash potentially worse than the brief but bloody war the two fought in the region in 1962.

Has China built roads good enough to transport troops to the South? Towards Nepal and India? True or false?

So the alarm bells are ringing? Then what about India's reaction?

India will buy nearly $2 billion worth of weapons technology from Israel in what's being described as the “largest defence contract” ever signed by the military exporting giant. The deal will see state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries provide India with an advanced defence system of medium-range surface-to-air missiles, launchers and communications technology, the company said in a statement Thursday. The “mega” missile agreement is “considered to be the largest defense contract in Israel's defense industries' history”, the company said. The Israeli firm will also supply a naval defence system including long-range surface-to-air missiles for India's first aircraft carrier, which is still under construction.

Conclusion: never trust reading these 'doggy Internet sites and opinions from what they read on various Internet sites without any consideration for the true facts.

[map]

I suppose you got that information from an internet site.
As I wrote previously "I did not wish to be confrontational, I just feel that it is ridiculous that some posters base their opinions from what they read on various internet sites without any consideration for the true facts."
If you choose to believe everything you read on the the internet then of course that's your choice.
I live in China and therefore I feel that I have a right to comment on such issues.
For example....why is the U.S.A becoming involved the territorial situation ?
How would they react if China sent war ships, planes etc. into their territory ?

[Balanbam00]

Map:
Its irevelant, unrelated from where I got all my information. Are we to think all or most Internet sites are giving out false information? " Without any consideration for the true facts." What are the true facts or more precise your true facts? Be careful where are you going to get your information? If its from Chinese newspapers ?? Don't confront any poster just give your opinion ,all opinions welcome!
''For example....why is the U.S.A becoming involved the territorial situation ?''
The US has been involved a long time there , its called 'protecting one interest's', almost as the Falklands is of British interests .
Remember Spanish American war? The Japanese and their expansion? Vietnam? Its again called protecting American interests and policy's

For China, the US is making trouble for them and preventing its rise as a great power. The Chinese want to see the Americans abandon the South China Sea and withdraw from the western Pacific. America’s concern with the South China Sea is a result of China’s effort to secure control over the maritime territory and the resources it contains. China insists on “indisputable sovereignty” over the area but a number of other claimants – Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines – have the law on their side.

All have exclusive economic zones (EEZS) in the South China Sea, which is their right under UN Convention of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and which the Chinese dismiss. In July 2016, the tribunal issued its judgment and upheld the rights of the ASEAN claimants to their EEZs, noting that the Chinese claim had no legal basis. China, however, has ignored legality in this dispute and is prepared to back its claim with military power. If it does not recognize the rules, the regional order that the US has been promoting breaks up.

They have constructed three airfields there, two are 3,000 meter's in length, one is 2,600 meter's. These airfields can support military aircraft including bombers and large transport aircraft. With this military presence, China would be able to control the South China Sea. And its strengthened position has geopolitical consequences for the US. The Chinese could block Japanese trade, which would need to be diverted elsewhere at considerable cost. Indeed, control of the South China Sea would allow China to interfere with Japanese and South Korean trade conducted through the area.

For America, then, the future of the current regional order and the security of its allies – Japan and South Korea – is at stake. To maintain its geopolitical position in the western Pacific, the US is obliged to defend the regional alliance system, and reassure local powers who are concerned about China’s intentions.

Trump has already broken with diplomatic convention by speaking with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen over the phone. More can be expected to demonstrate a new American assertiveness.

Wait ,wait this could be false news ? So what are the true facts??

[map]

I did give my opinion.
I'm not sure what your point is ?

[Balanbam00]

map:

Thats a very weak comment on a reason China has grabbed islands in the South China sea. ''How does a country take islands that are in their territorial waters ?(you say?) You are living in China and could add to that statement ,by saying, how, when and why, they own those islands?

In the past all countries have fished there, non have had the need to take those islands. They are reefs ,atoll's just sand, grass, some rocks ,perhaps migrating birds, no crops ,nothing! So therefore no country needed the reefs they just fished near there. No deep water, no harbour , no need for a trading post!! Besides some islands are about 600 plus miles away from china and within a 200 mile distance from the Philippines.

Apart from taking these islands physically,it acquires them on an intellectual level, with aiding a country's economic situation. China does not want any international court or agency involved it rejects them all ,it simply wants bi-national talks ,what does this mean in simple terms? They want to talk only with a country of local interest i e ASEAN (Association of South East Asian Nations )Such countries as Cambodia ,Philippines and Laos ! ( Without the presence of the USA! ) Here they have poured billions of dollars into each countries economy in return for their assistance around the voting table. Which President would not like billions pumped in to his country's economy?? Cambodia does not have any islands what can they lose, they can only win ! The Philippines with so much poverty, yes a deal can be done!! Laos is in the same situation.

For China to be a 'Global Superpower' in the near future, it needs to have a legitimacy in the eyes of the west, if not it will remain an East Asian superpower.

China has been importing oil since 1993. It is estimated that its proven oil reserves will be depleted by 2018. China is overly dependent on Middle East oil: 80% of China’s imported crude oil comes from 10 countries and 60% from five countries in the Middle
East and Africa.

My point is that a war will start between China and India ,and now we know who will start this !!

[map]

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrSbnagAYlZLLQAqR1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEz b3F0dDkwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVUkwMkM1XzEEc2 VjA3Nj?p=what+islands+do+china+own+in+the+south+ch ina+sea&fr=tightropetb

[Balanbam00]

To a gentleman in China!

It seems pointless having a debate with you. You say you live in China yet give no proof, just a lot of images under ''what islands do china own in the south china sea'' In the same token you could use the images under 'what islands do china NOT own in the south china sea' However you said something about facts. Your words,'' I just feel that it is ridiculous that some posters base their opinions from what they read on various internet sites without any consideration for the true facts."

Territorial waters or a territorial sea as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state.

Generally, a state's exclusive economic zone is an area beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea, extending seaward to a distance of no more than 200 nautical miles (370 km) out from its coastal baseline.

In the early 20th century, some nations expressed their desire to extend national claims: to include mineral resources, to protect fish stocks, and to provide the means to enforce pollution controls. etc

Distances: (In Nautical miles)

From China (Hai nan Island ) to the Spratly Islands some 490, reaching to 580 (In Nautical miles)
From the philippines : (Reed Bank 88 reaching to 149 (In Nautical miles) Clearly within its territorial limits of the 200 mile limit !!

Take Vietnam's position :
"Once again, Viet Nam reiterates that Viet Nam has full historical evidence and legal foundation to reaffirm its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, (Paracel islands) as well as other legal rights and interests of Viet Nam in the East Sea.

It is Viet Nam's consistent position to fully reject China's claim over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes and the adjacent waters, as well as China's claiming of ‘historic rights' to the waters, sea-bed and subsoil within the "dotted line" unilaterally stated by China."

In short : Cambodia's position:
" Hey phook it ! We care not, as long as china invests billions in our country we shout ''long live China !''
The Phillipine position:
''We believe that calmness should prevail as long as China has an open check book policy towards us".
Laos :
"No, understand english or chinese but million dollars, give to us,velly nice people China!"