Were our 60's Albion heroes really all that good?

[holmleighchris]

Bobby Hope 2 Scottish caps
Tony Brown 1 English cap
Jeff Astle 5 English caps
Clive Clark 0 English caps
John Kaye 0 English caps
John Osborne 0 English caps
Indeed there was only Graham Williams who won many and that was for little old Wales.

Are we wrong looking back at these players with such fond memories? Surely the International managers knew best.
How about our final league positions? From 1963/4 to 1972/3 we finished: 10th,14th,6th,13th, 8th, 10th,16th,17th, 16th, 22nd. Hardly pulled up any trees did we?
We did manage 1 F.A.Cup win & 1 League Cup win. More than Villa & Wolves combined :)
I reckon if you asked the fans of every other club to name their best 20 players of that period, excluding their own, there would be no Albion players on anyone's list.
If you ask me I'd tell you all the above and more were bloody great :heart:

[Yarmbaggie]

One big difference just about every player for every club was from the Home nations and therefore it was so difficult to get into the national sides, the competition was so much greater. I also believe there was a great bias against sides like us. Bryan Robson would perhaps be the best example of that, but not the only one.

For me the biggest plus, irrespective of whether they played for their country or not is that they entertained, they gave their all and they linked with the supporters.

No one will convince me that the football is more entertaining now than it was then, despite (or maybe because of) the huge transfer fees and wages.

[phild]

There as always been bias against many Midland clubs in favour of The big northern and London clubs. Look at the greatest left back that I ever seen, Derek Statham. If he'd been playing for Arsenal instead of the virtually talentless Sampson then Derek would have had the 80 odd plus caps instead.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

When it came to cup football then yes they really were that good.

International caps the competition then was so much fiercer. Tony Brown v Charlton, Astle v Hurst, Hope v Baxter, Kaye v Moore.


As regards a Top 20 United had Charlton, Law and THE Best (didn't stop us putting 6 past em the year they won the European Cup) City- Bell Summerbee Lee
Chelsea-Hudson Cooke
Leeds-Bremner Giles Gray Clarke Charlton +another 7
Everton-Ball Harvey (1 cap)Kendall (0caps)Royle
Banks
The West Ham World Cup Winners
Spurs-Greaves Blanchflower
Liverpool StJohn HuntCallaghan Thompson

There's 20+ who fans from then would remember more easily. Apologies to those I've missed out.

Love em? Course I did they gave me the happiest day of my life May 18th 1968

[BaggiefromStafford]

There as always been bias against many Midland clubs in favour of The big northern and London clubs. Look at the greatest left back that I ever seen, Derek Statham. If he'd been playing for Arsenal instead of the virtually talentless Sampson then Derek would have had the 80 odd plus caps instead.

I was thinking exactly the same about Derek Statham phild.

[Joy_Division]

Those players from the 60's would probably struggle a bit when it came to the fitness of today's players. Sports science has improved diet and training techniques such a lot. I remember that picture of Kaye in the dressing room after the FA Cup semi against the Blues I think it was, sitting there with a fag on. But that aside I am sure that Brown, Astle Clarke etc would all be Premiership players, only probably not with Albion as other clubs would have snapped them up while we 'monitored' the situation.

[holmleighchris]

Those players from the 60's would probably struggle a bit when it came to the fitness of today's players. Sports science has improved diet and training techniques such a lot. I remember that picture of Kaye in the dressing room after the FA Cup semi against the Blues I think it was, sitting there with a fag on. But that aside I am sure that Brown, Astle Clarke etc would all be Premiership players, only probably not with Albion as other clubs would have snapped them up while we 'monitored' the situation.

That can't be true about John Kaye!!!
5917

[Q165]

That can't be true about John Kaye!!!
5917

Albion were at the cutting edge of sports science / player fitness and welfare! Weren't they also pretty free in giving injections to not fully fit players to get them playing? May be just a rumour.

Brown, Astle and Hope were truly outstanding players. Not a chance that we could have held on to them today, which is sad.

[WBA1955]

My'favourite'Albion'side'of'all'time.4'Cup'finals' in'5'years,the'other'year'was'a'semi'and'a'Europea n'quarter'final.
Clive'Clark'was'better'than'Willie'Johnston,Bobby' Hope'was'as'good'as'Giles.
Astle'more'prolific'than'Regis,Graham'Lovett'was'b eing'hailedas'the'next'Duncan'Edwards,
Asa'Hartford'became'our'first'fashionable'player,O sborne'was'as'good'as'any'keeper'we'have'had'befor e'or'since,
oh'and'then'there'was'Bomber.
Throw'in'Graham'Williams,John'Kaye'and'Dougie'and' it'wasn't'a'bad'side'at'all.
Division'One'was'much'more'open'than'the'EPL,and'a 'good'or'bad'start'determined'your'season.
The'early'60's'was'one'of'change'as'the'players'of 'the'great'50's'side'departed'and'new'ones'came'th ough.
The'mid'to'late'60's'were'very'exdciting'times.Gre at'football,lot's'of'goals'scored,and'in'an'era'wh en'defences'
were'much'tighter'than'previous'decades.
The'cap'thing'has'always'been'a'thorny'subject.How 'many'would'the'players'mentioned'have'got'had'the y'played'
for'Liverpool,United,Arsenal'etc
As'for'fitness'i'doubt'todays'thoroughbreds'would' manage'90'mins'with'no'subs'on'those'pitches,and't hose'players'of
yesteryear'would'revel'on'todays'billiard'tables'i n'a'non'contact'sport.Hardly'any'injuries'back'the n.
That'Albion'side'was'very'good'until'1970'when'it' began'to'slide,and'we'had'to'wait'5'years'until'an 'Albion'side'worthy'
of'the'name'rose'again.

[soulman101]

Best Albion side i've seen .They would be worth a fortune nowadays Chippy ,Hope, Astle and Bomber.Luck at what Bombers says about Chippy and remember the pitches and hard knocks he faced. http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-tony-brown-pays-7062282

[Q165]

I feel so lucky to have been able to witness that side in my ****s. They were exceptional in that period 67-70.

[kettering_baggie]

I may be wrong but at the time that Bobby Hope played for us, didn't Scotland have a policy of selecting players for their national team from teams in the Scottish leagues? I'm sure that I read somewhere that that was the case back then and would explain why Bobby had so few international caps. Our team today could well use a Bobby Hope clone........

[Albionic68]

I may be wrong but at the time that Bobby Hope played for us, didn't Scotland have a policy of selecting players for their national team from teams in the Scottish leagues? I'm sure that I read somewhere that that was the case back then and would explain why Bobby had so few international caps. Our team today could well use a Bobby Hope clone........

I too remember reading something along those lines, however........

Bobby Hope joined Albion in 1960 and left for Blues in 1972.

Bobby got two Scotland caps, both in 1968.

Billy Bremner joined Leeds in 1960 and left for Hull City in 1976.

Bremner was capped 54 times by Scotland between 1965 and 1976.

Courtesy of the much maligned Wiki.

[boingy]

Yes they were that good. There was just a lot of competition and back then there were still the favourite teams to pick the internationals from.

[Londonbaggie1968]

Some great points made on this thread, all absolutely valid. I started following the Albion during the 1967-68 season as an 8 year old and I thought that we had a wonderful side then and still believe that today. Without doubt, we had a great cup squad during the mid to late 60's and during that period there was far more glamour in the cup competitions than winning the league. As for the players rating, Astle, Brown, Clarke, Hope and Osborne were first rate players of the highest pedigree. Very happy memories.

[Leicesterbaggie]

If these players had been playing now they would have benefited from all the training and medical innovations of today and would have been playing on much better surfaces. So yes, what wonderful players these old Albion players would be in 2017!