A win, but....

[offshore_arab83]

still concerned about the way we are playing. Weæve improved the players, no doubt about that so why are the performances still as bad as last season we ask...

Yeah its a win but f uck me this is a part time team who nearly held us to a draw and didnt sit in as much as people are making out

Im sorry but this is giving me flashbacks of last season already, que the usual people coming on saying a wins a win and we need to win ugly, aye, last season to an extent i agreed with this but when we continually perfomed poorly then our winning streak came to a abrupt hault and we continued top perform poorly it cost us the league IMO

We need to start playing better, im not sure exactly what the problem is, what it is we are missing, tactics, formations, the manager himself, but im seeing nothing different to last season except the names on the back of the shirts.

Cannot stress how important it is to get out this league and IMO playing like this, we wont...

[Whitfieldarab]

We played 4-4-2 today and we looked worse than when we play our normal formation until N'koyi came on.

Our midfield was sh*te today and Keatings when he wasn't sh*te looked like he wasn't interested. We are so lightweight it's unreal. King did better today too but you can knock him over with a feather.

[Charlie arab]

Imo the problem is we have too many of the same tippytappy type players who want too much time on the ball, we seem to get bullied every game. McKinnon has been in this league a few years now and should know you need a physical presence all over the park, not just defence. Hard to believe we have 9 points when you look at the performances.Tough game next week, need to do better than today to take something.

[Chick A Saw]

Thank god i didnt make it then!

I was one of the 3 points in the bag guys last season, until i started to pay attention to what i was ignoring and the dip came along. I think this one may have set of an epic rant like what happened towards the end of last season!

This season i think we actually do have the players to get us through, but i just hope the manager doesnt remain loyal to under performers like he did last season, as he has options if someone aint up to it!

[Whitfieldarab]

We simply have to play better in Paisley next week or we'll lose. Tough game. McMullan's back though.

[Chick A Saw]

Just wondering how we lined up in midfield and up front?

[stokearab]

Imo the problem is we have too many of the same tippytappy type players who want too much time on the ball, we seem to get bullied every game. McKinnon has been in this league a few years now and should know you need a physical presence all over the park, not just defence. Hard to believe we have 9 points when you look at the performances.Tough game next week, need to do better than today to take something.

Good post Charlie. The game v the Fun was quite an eye opener to see how small and lightweight we were compared to them. If you sign footballers - which everyone has been crying out for - they have to play football. And as long as they don't, there will be questions asked about Ray, justifiably. Think, hope, N'Kyoi might be a big influence for us in a partnership with McDonald.

But when was the last time we went out and smashed a team with a stunning attacking display?

[arab_pat]

To be honest I've quite liked the way we've gone about our football so far this season (Brechin aside). Teams have bad games and better it was against the likes of Brechin than the bigger teams. Ray will be right through them for next Saturday now I think

[arab81]

Agree with opening post, canny belive how bad keatings was today!. Dropped for next week.

[Chick A Saw]

Wondering if this is the culmination of not having a settled midfield and Ray trying to get some favourites match fit.

Fyvie - No denying a fit Fyvie should be one of the first picks, but should he have been ahead of (ok probaby injured) Briels?
Keatings - Was beginning to like him before he got injured, but if he is still injured, he should not be playing! There will be a time soon that we will really need him 100% which might not happen because of a desire to play.
Fraser - I think this is another one who has been playing through injury and sounds like he took another sore one today!

I really hope this is not Ray being stubborn to get his team on the park or an inability to say no to guys who want to play.

[GingerPetric]

Just wondering how we lined up in midfield and up front?

Not very well.

King and Fraser far too lightweight despite occasional nice touches.

Stanton who I have liked so far wasn't quite on his game but worked away.

Fyvie is a player who will increase in influence over the next wee while.

McDonald was poor in first half for dealing with long balls and lay offs. Usually a strength of his but he kept working away.

Keatings was poor, well off his game sadly.

When your 76th minute subbie (N'Koyi) wins a long ball header within a couple of minutes of coming on and it generates a huge ironic cheer from the crowd (cos it's the first one of the game) that's when the he manager should ken!

As per OP a wins a win but that was pretty pish today. A huge wake-up call to the manager. We have an excellent squad on paper, he should be looking to produce better with the resources he has....

The defence and keeper did fine by and large...I am liking that Ray has the stones to bench Toshney and the Edge. Up to them to seize their chance as and when they get back in.

One thing to mind though, did Hibs not only win 16 games all season? We've now won 3!

[huntedbyafreak]

That game today was one of the worst games of football I've ever had the misfortune to pay into. 3 points is 3 points but it was plucking brutal.

[huntedbyafreak]

Play like that next week and we'll be heading home from Paisley with our first defeat safely tucked under our arms

[An old shed boy]

Said before and I'll say again.
We have a squad that should win the league but a manager who isn't capable of getting the best out of them.
I would love Mackinnon to prove me wrong but best I can see is playoffs.

[shedboy71]

Not very well.

King and Fraser far too lightweight despite occasional nice touches.

Stanton who I have liked so far wasn't quite on his game but worked away.

Fyvie is a player who will increase in influence over the next wee while.

McDonald was poor in first half for dealing with long balls and lay offs AGAINST BRECHIN WE PLAYED LONG BALLS TO A 5 7 STRIKER?? class . Usually a strength of his but he kept working away.

Keatings was poor, well off his game sadly.

When your 76th minute subbie (N'Koyi) wins a long ball header within a couple of minutes of coming on and it generates a huge ironic cheer from the crowd (cos it's the first one of the game) that's when the he manager should ken!

As per OP a wins a win but that was pretty pish today. A huge wake-up call to the manager. We have an excellent squad on paper, he should be looking to produce better with the resources he has....

The defence and keeper did fine by and large...I am liking that Ray has the stones to bench Toshney and the Edge. Up to them to seize their chance as and when they get back in.

One thing to mind though, did Hibs not only win 16 games all season? We've now won 3!

oh my well rest of season to look forward to!!! :(

[shedboy71]

That game today was one of the worst games of football I've ever had the misfortune to pay into. 3 points is 3 points but it was plucking brutal.


say it again mckinnon and tictacs ..........................................

[RaysRedEye]

say it again mckinnon and tictacs ..........................................

Mint?

[SmedDUm]

It wasn't bonny at all.
Can only get better....

[tHeArAb]

We have a team built to play 4231. I dont care what folk say but every time we've played 442 we have been utter ****e, yesterday being a prime example. Get back to 4231, get the 3 attacking midfielders floating around with a freedom to play across the three instead of having to retain a solid flat 4 and we'll start playing football again. If we're playing 442 we need 2 very good wingers and we simply do not have that in King & Fraser.

[shedka]

Not overly concerned, was easily our worst performance in the 9 games this season, still got the 3 pts and are 5 wins out of 5 at home, better to have an off day in a game like that than next week where vast improvement is needed

[JamesMcClean]

Not overly concerned, was easily our worst performance in the 9 games this season, still got the 3 pts and are 5 wins out of 5 at home, better to have an off day in a game like that than next week where vast improvement is needed

I think the main issue is it followed on from a poor performance against QOTS and Beath (albeit with a changed side). As shown last year we cannot possibly hope to keep 'getting away with it' and winning by the odd goal.

[shedka]

We were down to ten men after half an hour though so delighted with us getting the win last weekend, of course I agree, see how it goes next week, will have to up our performance from yesterday then we have two weeks till the next league match

[SmedDUm]

Similar tempo to the Cowdenbeath game on Tuesday. Seemed like that game was just running on. We're lacking a spark & I don't mean Euan.
St Mirren game play N'Koyi. Keatings has to go away & get fit/match fit. Even his dead balls were off colour (sounds painful! :))

[Charlie arab]

I think the main issue is it followed on from a poor performance against QOTS and Beath (albeit with a changed side). As shown last year we cannot possibly hope to keep 'getting away with it' and winning by the odd goal.

One thing different and in our favour this season is there is no team like hibs who will win most weeks, every team will drop points and teams like Brechin are well capable of taking points off our rivals. It's ***** we win games like yesterday and don't give the teams below us a chance to gain on us.

[Otm_Shank]

We've done enough to win our first three games and although yesterday was ugly we still won. People saying we should do this and do that.....if we did and it didn't work you'd still blame Ray despite it being exactly what you asked for. When we start losing then I'll start complaining that the tactics were wrong. When the tactics have us winning games I'm not going to complain.

[JamesMcClean]

We were down to ten men after half an hour though so delighted with us getting the win last weekend, of course I agree, see how it goes next week, will have to up our performance from yesterday then we have two weeks till the next league match

I think you're forgetting though that it was already 1-1 at the time of the sending off and frankly I felt we were struggling. Don't get me wrong I'll take the 3 points every day of the week but so far we look far from a standout from the other teams and I think it's noticeable already that teams are fancying their chances against us. Both yesterday and last week could have easily gone the other way and I don't think I'm being churlish to expect a little bit more.

[ianharab]

Manager and players not happy with display yesterday , so at least they know it wasn't good enough , would have been more worried if Ray came out with some poor excuse , am expecting much better as I believe we have a better team than last season .

Keatings clearly not ready to return , was surprised he came back so soon given nature of injury , no doing himself or team any favours , still to tippy tappy for me going forward .

[SmedDUm]

I think you're forgetting though that it was already 1-1 at the time of the sending off and frankly I felt we were struggling. Don't get me wrong I'll take the 3 points every day of the week but so far we look far from a standout from the other teams and I think it's noticeable already that teams are fancying their chances against us. Both yesterday and last week could have easily gone the other way and I don't think I'm being churlish to expect a little bit more.

Agreed James, well put.

[Whitfieldarab]

We've done enough to win our first three games and although yesterday was ugly we still won. People saying we should do this and do that.....if we did and it didn't work you'd still blame Ray despite it being exactly what you asked for. When we start losing then I'll start complaining that the tactics were wrong. When the tactics have us winning games I'm not going to complain.

Can't disagree with any of this. We have been poor but I feel our opposition haven't been any better, maybe a better team would have taken points off us though . RM got his subs spot on so tactically he got that right but outwith our back 5 we are so lightweight. We really need to address this if we have the funds.

[ianharab]

Agreed James , so far , scarily like last season , for me , we don't put teams under near enough pressure especially at Tannadice surely we are entitled to expect better

[tHeArAb]

I fear an absolute hammering next week if i'm being honest. Saints are flying. Managed 3 goals away from home yesterday despite being down to 10 men on 33 minutes.

[Arabdownsouth]

To say St Mirren are flying is not quite true, did they not get hammered themselves last week?

[shedka]

They did indeed, plus think I read yesterday that there has never been a home win in 12 meetings between Saints and Livi, including twice this season already (Livi won 1-0 in Paisley in the cup group)

[SmedDUm]

I fear an absolute hammering next week if i'm being honest. Saints are flying. Managed 3 goals away from home yesterday despite being down to 10 men on 33 minutes.

A 'hammering', no, but St Mirren away will be an acid test before the 'easy' home games the following week v Alloa in the Irn Bru & Dumbarton in the league.
'Easy' in inverteds cos on the evidence of yesterday nothing's gonna be easy.
We can expect marked improvement tho, the new team will take time. Pairings of McDonald & Keatings tried to bed in yesterday as did Durnan & Quinn.

[Sutherland Arab]

I fear an absolute hammering next week if i'm being honest. Saints are flying. Managed 3 goals away from home yesterday despite being down to 10 men on 33 minutes.

They've lost 5-0 to Thistle, 4-1 to Morton, scraped a win against East Kilbride in a cup they actually want to win.
Good on their day but after yesterday I expect a better performance from us and a 3-1 win in their midden.
Fingers crossed.

[tHeArAb]

Flying as in, scoring goals for fun. 14 goals in 5 games whereas we are exactly how we were last season, struggling to penetrate & put teams aways. Can see a 3-1 if I'm being honest. Gladly be proved otherwise obviously.

[TerryTheTerror]

Imo the problem is we have too many of the same tippytappy type players who want too much time on the ball, we seem to get bullied every game. McKinnon has been in this league a few years now and should know you need a physical presence all over the park, not just defence. Hard to believe we have 9 points when you look at the performances.Tough game next week, need to do better than today to take something.

Yeah and the game changed in our favour when Flood came on and we went onto dominate the midfield as he added the physically we were missing up to that point. Flood and Fyvie should be our first choice centre midfield partnership IMHO.

[tHeArAb]

They've lost 5-0 to Thistle, 4-1 to Morton, scraped a win against East Kilbride in a cup they actually want to win.
Good on their day but after yesterday I expect a better performance from us and a 3-1 win in their midden.
Fingers crossed.

They did but, Partick are a Premiership team. Morton, they were down to 10 men for 40mins (1-1 at the time of the sending off) and EK was a team similar to what we scraped by Cowdenbeath. Certainly not their 1st team, which would suggest they don't actually want to win it that much.

[Giant_Jouster]

I was delighted when I saw the team yesterday and if we had managed an early goal, I reckon we'd would have gained confidence from that. However, we did not and whilst we wilted, it was the opposite that happened and Brechin were the confident ones. At times in the first half I was looking down the pitch from the ETL to see both our full backs on either touch line and a player further forward on each touch line too. That is fantastic, but we did not appear to know how to connect the two. We need to solve that and probably should only start with a max of 4 from the likes of: Fraser, Smith, Keats, King, McDonald, Stanton type players. This season is purely and simply about amassing enough points to win the league and get promoted. In doing so, hopefully, sooner than later, we will do so in style.

[ClashCityRocker]

Brechin ( along with Arbroath and Forfar ) are among the best part time teams in Scotland and on their day these teams can give most teams in Scotland a game.

This is where being full time makes a difference - in the final 15- 20 mins of a match, a full time team should be fitter and also have fully fit subs on the bench etc.

Good example of having to grind out a result - there will be lots more matches like this !!!

[tHeArAb]

Brechin ( along with Arbroath and Forfar ) are among the best part time teams in Scotland and on their day these teams can give most teams in Scotland a game.

This is where being full time makes a difference - in the final 15- 20 mins of a match, a full time team should be fitter and also have fully fit subs on the bench etc.

Good example of having to grind out a result - there will be lots more matches like this !!!

Grinding out a result against Brechin. Well **** me.

[GUNBOAT]

Brechin ( along with Arbroath and Forfar ) are among the best part time teams in Scotland and on their day these teams can give most teams in Scotland a game.

This is where being full time makes a difference - in the final 15- 20 mins of a match, a full time team should be fitter and also have fully fit subs on the bench etc.

Good example of having to grind out a result - there will be lots more matches like this !!!

Dumbarton are the best part time team in Scotland and they tend to give us the run around in the last 20 even though their postie's have worked the same morning as we played them.

[jjaflup22]

Can't disagree with any of the above, it was a poor display, however last season we would probably have drawn that match or worse. Same goes for Qots game. We're not pretty to watch but there is a bit more fight in this team compared to last season.

[TerryTheTerror]

There is more quality in the team this season, no doubt in my mind. Whether it's good enough to win the league remains to be seen but we've had a good start.

[GingerPetric]

There will be a huge stewards enquiry if we don't win the league, given the relative quality and depth of our squad.

Falkirk, ICT and Morton appear to be weaker, big question is whether St Mirren or Dunfy can last the pace.

I don't think they will....

[stokearab]

General observation, mainly for OS I suppose - is it likely that the better quality of the players we have this season might find form and fluidity by themselves despite the opinion that Ray is weak on tactics and formations?

To be fair, it's still fairly early as these players bed in, get know each other and some still struggling for full fitness?

[offshore_arab83]

General observation, mainly for OS I suppose - is it likely that the better quality of the players we have this season might find form and fluidity by themselves despite the opinion that Ray is weak on tactics and formations?

To be fair, it's still fairly early as these players bed in, get know each other and some still struggling for full fitness?

I hope so but i see nothing to show even a glimmer of improvement

[Arabdownsouth]

There will be a huge stewards enquiry if we don't win the league, given the relative quality and depth of our squad.

Falkirk, ICT and Morton appear to be weaker, big question is whether St Mirren or Dunfy can last the pace.

I don't think they will....

Have to agree with all of this really. As poor as we were on Saturday we have opened up a very useful gap on Falkirk and Inverness which even at this stage will take some clawing back. With the depth we have in the squad this season other teams are going to struggle to keep up with us

[TerryTheTerror]

I'm not too sure if I agree with that or not to be honest. I think we need to play everyone first then judge where we are.

[RAM1971]

I'm not too sure if I agree with that or not to be honest. I think we need to play everyone first then judge where we are.


I think all of our players have had at least one game so far?

[TerryTheTerror]

Sorry, I meant every opposition team. :)

[shedka]

Yea way too early to say, for example Falkirk have a few very winnable games coming up while we have a difficult run, they could easily be near or level with us after we play them in mid Sept, need to focus on giving everything on Saturday then we'd have a nice fortnight break from league business

[skarne1]

Playing teams like Brechin, Forfar, Arbroath etc will nearlt always cause United problems. The players look on it as possibly biggest game of the season, some are local lads with mates turning up to watch so they want to put on a big performance and some hope to play well enough in the hope they may be signed.
We are the biggest in this leagie and everyone wants to beat us. Some new players will never have experienced this and need to get used to it

[RAM1971]

Sorry, I meant every opposition team. :)



My apologies yet again Trebs. I knew what you meant, but I couldn't help myself. Maybe I was reading too much about the Fun's potential move to Camper? The brain gets fried.

[shedboy71]

My apologies yet again Trebs. I knew what you meant, but I couldn't help myself. Maybe I was reading too much about the Fun's potential move to Camper? The brain gets fried.
Think yours fried a long time ago tbh RAM ��

[TerryTheTerror]

Fried mutton? Doesn't sound too appealing. :)

[RAM1971]

Think yours fried a long time ago tbh RAM ��

Yes my dear Garden Implement Storage Receptacle etc., I would have to concur with your analysis. A couple of more minutes in the frying pan and I might have become sane?

[tHeArAb]

I fear an absolute hammering next week if i'm being honest. Saints are flying. Managed 3 goals away from home yesterday despite being down to 10 men on 33 minutes.


To say St Mirren are flying is not quite true, did they not get hammered themselves last week?


A 'hammering', no, but St Mirren away will be an acid test before the 'easy' home games the following week v Alloa in the Irn Bru & Dumbarton in the league.
'Easy' in inverteds cos on the evidence of yesterday nothing's gonna be easy.
We can expect marked improvement tho, the new team will take time. Pairings of McDonald & Keatings tried to bed in yesterday as did Durnan & Quinn.


Flying as in, scoring goals for fun. 14 goals in 5 games whereas we are exactly how we were last season, struggling to penetrate & put teams aways. Can see a 3-1 if I'm being honest. Gladly be proved otherwise obviously.

Hammered by a team that are flying. FACT.

That's been coming.