Yet again, the EFL stick two fingers up to loyal footy fans....

[Elite_Pie]

.... with the draw for the third round of the Carabao Cup (the League Cup in old money). The third round draw will take place in Beijing at 04:15 am this Thursday. Yes, you read it right, it really happens at 04:15 in Beijing!!!! Even though we won't be involved, a few clubs at our level will. This is the round the big clubs (those in Europe) join, so it's an eagerly awaited fixture for a few lower league fans. Their excuse is that it opens up the competition to new markets, the reality is that Beijing offered the EFL enough cash to sell their souls. An utterly disgraceful decision, how long before a game will be played in China with a 04:15 kick off ?

[upthemaggies]

.... with the draw for the third round of the Carabao Cup (the League Cup in old money). The third round draw will take place in Beijing at 04:15 am this Thursday. Yes, you read it right, it really happens at 04:15 in Beijing!!!! Even though we won't be involved, a few clubs at our level will. This is the round the big clubs (those in Europe) join, so it's an eagerly awaited fixture for a few lower league fans. Their excuse is that it opens up the competition to new markets, the reality is that Beijing offered the EFL enough cash to sell their souls. An utterly disgraceful decision, how long before a game will be played in China with a 04:15 kick off ?

I get where you're coming from and I think most would agree with you, but - after the ridiculous talk of the 39th Premier League fixture a few years ago and the fear that may come up again in the future - staging the League Cup final in China would be a good compromise. We don't care about the League Cup anything like we used to, maybe playing towards a big event abroad would breath fresh life into it.

[Freeman25]

With how badly the first draw was done I doubt you'll be missing much

[Elite_Pie]

I get where you're coming from and I think most would agree with you, but - after the ridiculous talk of the 39th Premier League fixture a few years ago and the fear that may come up again in the future - staging the League Cup final in China would be a good compromise. We don't care about the League Cup anything like we used to, maybe playing towards a big event abroad would breath fresh life into it.

So you think a final played in China at 04:15 our time would breathe "fresh life" into the League Cup?

In that case I hope it dies a quicker death than the Pisspot Trophy.

[BigFatPie]

I've read far more about the League Cup third round draw today than ever before.

I'd say the sponsors and consequently the EFL will say it's a job well done.

[upthemaggies]

So you think a final played in China at 04:15 our time would breathe "fresh life" into the League Cup?



They're 8 hours ahead of us, so we'd most likely see it around lunchtime - or at least those who subscribe to Sky/BT, maybe 1pm if they kicked off at 9pm. Highlights on BBC or ITV at night.

[Elite_Pie]

They're 8 hours ahead of us, so we'd most likely see it around lunchtime - or at least those who subscribe to Sky/BT, maybe 1pm if they kicked off at 9pm. Highlights on BBC or ITV at night.

The timescale is irrelevant. It's the principle of whether a cup final involving two English teams should be played anywhere but Wembley.

[JoePass]

.... with the draw for the third round of the Carabao Cup (the League Cup in old money). The third round draw will take place in Beijing at 04:15 am this Thursday. Yes, you read it right, it really happens at 04:15 in Beijing!!!! Even though we won't be involved, a few clubs at our level will. This is the round the big clubs (those in Europe) join, so it's an eagerly awaited fixture for a few lower league fans. Their excuse is that it opens up the competition to new markets, the reality is that Beijing offered the EFL enough cash to sell their souls. An utterly disgraceful decision, how long before a game will be played in China with a 04:15 kick off ?


Totally agree, it's worse than a joke.

[Notts78]

The timescale is irrelevant. It's the principle of whether a cup final involving two English teams should be played anywhere but Wembley.

Given the success of the NFL at Wembley, it is not surprising. I think that the English League is a truly global product and the EFL and FA no doubt want to tap in to the commercial revenues of the Far East in particular. It could actually benefit clubs like Notts if prize money is increased... meaning clubs and fans take this competition seriously. Just look at the attendance for our game v Scunny, oh and the side selected (hardly our 1st choice 11)

[Elite_Pie]

Given the success of the NFL at Wembley, it is not surprising. I think that the English League is a truly global product and the EFL and FA no doubt want to tap in to the commercial revenues of the Far East in particular. It could actually benefit clubs like Notts if prize money is increased... meaning clubs and fans take this competition seriously. Just look at the attendance for our game v Scunny, oh and the side selected (hardly our 1st choice 11)

Great idea. Lets just forget over a century of history and tradition and just tender all fixtures to the highest bidder.

[Steward]

Good job we're not involved anymore.

[Notts78]

Great idea. Lets just forget over a century of history and tradition and just tender all fixtures to the highest bidder.

Not sure I presented an idea... The EFL cup has been declining for the last couple of decades, talk of tradition is futile, no one (in power) gives a **** when money is concerned. Its the way of the world now. I don't agree with it Elite, but I accept that we, the fans, are bottom of any considerations, and there is naff all that can be done.

[60YearsAPie]

We’re talking here about the draw for the 3rd Round of the Carabao Cup. As far as I’m aware there’s been no suggestion that the final is to be played abroad.

I don’t find it essential to hear the draw live. If we were still involved, I’d be quite happy to check who we’d drawn when I woke up.

[Steward]

Its the same with Sky, changing games to a Friday/Saturday night, sod the travelling fans

[Elite_Pie]

We’re talking here about the draw for the 3rd Round of the Carabao Cup. As far as I’m aware there’s been no suggestion that the final is to be played abroad.

I don’t find it essential to hear the draw live. If we were still involved, I’d be quite happy to check who we’d drawn when I woke up.


Not sure I presented an idea... The EFL cup has been declining for the last couple of decades, talk of tradition is futile, no one (in power) gives a **** when money is concerned. Its the way of the world now. I don't agree with it Elite, but I accept that we, the fans, are bottom of any considerations, and there is naff all that can be done.

With attitudes like those, no wonder the EFL treat fans the way they do.

[nay123]

Good job we're not involved anymore.it doesn't matter to notts because it's been years since we did anything in any cups​.

[60YearsAPie]

With attitudes like those, no wonder the EFL treat fans the way they do.

We’re talking here about the draw for the 3rd Round of the Carabao Cup. As far as I’m aware there’s been no suggestion that the final is to be played abroad.

I don’t find it essential to hear the draw live. If we were still involved, I’d be quite happy to check who we’d drawn when I woke up.

[drillerpie]

Doesn't bother me that much but it is just part of a larger series of events whereby running a sport has just become about making as much money as possible (selling tv rights, naming rights, letting betting companies take over etc) rather than looking after the best interests of the sport.

[Notts78]

With attitudes like those, no wonder the EFL treat fans the way they do.

It is pointless me even trying to have a meaningful debate with you. Much of what I have written on this thread is the reality of sport and in particular football. What can we as fans do? Refuse to attend games? That has really worked well.
If you are moaning about my attitide towards traditions of football, the game has evolved beyond recognition. In many cases for the worse. Do I see you moaning about those? No, have you accepted them? Seemingly so.
What are your thoughts on Spurs having Wembley as there home ground for this season? Has that not broken tradition? Yet I don't recall a thread about it.
Traditionally, a player has been able to make contact with another player without fear of being carded, yet now, a player can be sent off for 'excessive force' or how I would phrase it 'a good strong tackle'... have you started a thread about this?
The beauty of football is there are often so many talking points... as technology is integrated in to football these will become less so. Is this against traditions?
There are so many sports that have broken tradition. Cricket is the obvious one with the introduction of T20.. for the purists they hate it. However, you can not argue with the numbers.
But hey, that us just my **** attitude.

[upthemaggies]

As far as I’m aware there’s been no suggestion that the final is to be played abroad.


There hasn't but I can see it coming, or something similar being played abroad - The Charity Shield or FA Cup semi-finals maybe.
I think Wembley is currently under contact to stage these events so it would be a long way off but they're not going to be content staging all-Premier pre-season friendlies abroad, there's going to come a point where they'll want to showcase games that matter. Maybe they'll create a new competition in the hope that it usurps the League Cup, but I'd accept anything over an additional Premier League fixture or moving existing league fixtures abroad which would tip the balance of fairness. Do what you like with cups, who really cares about those today? The league however must retain its' integrity.

[Elite_Pie]

It is pointless me even trying to have a meaningful debate with you. Much of what I have written on this thread is the reality of sport and in particular football. What can we as fans do? Refuse to attend games?

Possibly. There are several people (me included) boycotting the Pisspot Trophy in protest at the inclusion of 'B' teams. If we all just sit back and accept things the EFL will push their agenda much quicker.



If you are moaning about my attitide towards traditions of football, the game has evolved beyond recognition. In many cases for the worse. Do I see you moaning about those? No, have you accepted them? Seemingly so.

I've moaned about some changes (see above), accepted some, even praised some. I just think that making the draw for an English cup competition in China at 04:15 is an open slap in the face to fans simply because a few EFL palms have been greased. If this goes unchallenged actual games abroad will soon follow.

[forwardmagpie]

Long time since I have listened to the League Cup draw live so don't really give a toss where and when it is made.
Since they played FA Cup games all over the place I lost interest in all cup draws but I agree with the sentiment regarding the EFL.

[SmiffyPie]

I get where you're coming from and I think most would agree with you, but - after the ridiculous talk of the 39th Premier League fixture a few years ago and the fear that may come up again in the future - staging the League Cup final in China would be a good compromise. We don't care about the League Cup anything like we used to, maybe playing towards a big event abroad would breath fresh life into it.This is obviously a wind so I will not treat the post with the contempt it deserves.

[60YearsAPie]

I don’t find it essential to hear the draw live. If we were still involved, I’d be quite happy to check who we’d drawn when I woke up.

Obviously there's a lot of people, like me, who aren't bothered about hearing the draw live.

They’ve currently got a poll going on the BBC website asking:

“Will you be up at 04:15 BST to follow the EFL Cup third-round draw?”

So far the result is:

Yes. Wake up alarm is already set. 7%

No chance. I need my sleep. 93%

[Elite_Pie]

Obviously there's a lot of people, like me, who aren't bothered about hearing the draw live.

What an infantile and ridiculous conclusion to draw. That question is a very general one, so fans in a similar position to us would have no interest in the draw whenever and wherever it was made. The question should be "If your team were involved, would you rather have the draw made at a reasonable time in England or at 04:15 in China?'. I predict that 99.9% (at least) would prefer the former. Even if Notts were involved I wouldn't be setting an alarm clock, but that wouldn't mean I "wasn't bothered" about hearing the draw live.

[JoePass]

What an infantile and ridiculous conclusion to draw. That question is a very general one, so fans in a similar position to us would have no interest in the draw whenever and wherever it was made. The question should be "If your team were involved, would you rather have the draw made at a reasonable time in England or at 04:15 in China?'. I predict that 99.9% (at least) would prefer the former. Even if Notts were involved I wouldn't be setting an alarm clock, but that wouldn't mean I "wasn't bothered" about hearing the draw live.


What he said.

[60YearsAPie]

What an infantile and ridiculous conclusion to draw.


What he said.

My old granny used to say, “Why waste words on people who only deserve your silence.”

As usual, she wasn’t wrong.

[Elite_Pie]

My old granny used to say, “Why waste words on people who only deserve your silence.”

As usual, she wasn’t wrong.

My old granny used to say "Never listen to people who quote what their old granny used to say when they talk crap themselves".

As usual, she wasn't wrong.

[forwardmagpie]

What an infantile and ridiculous conclusion to draw. That question is a very general one, so fans in a similar position to us would have no interest in the draw whenever and wherever it was made. The question should be "If your team were involved, would you rather have the draw made at a reasonable time in England or at 04:15 in China?'. I predict that 99.9% (at least) would prefer the former. Even if Notts were involved I wouldn't be setting an alarm clock, but that wouldn't mean I "wasn't bothered" about hearing the draw live.

Then I am one of the 1% if the draw in China meant Notts got more money from the competition.
I can't remember the last cup draw of any competition I listened to.

[SmiffyPie]

There was a time when the League Cup had nearly as much importance as the FA Cup ONCE had. Then the Premier League was spawned and the chance for money evolved and both competitions, certainly the League Cup (or whatever it is now called) diminished. The only reason the FA Cup still carries any interest at a high level is because of the route it offers to European money.
No wonder the footballing world dislikes the English. Everything revolves around money and generating money. The pill would taste sweeter if you could the home nations kids coming through, too late now though.

[Elite_Pie]

Then I am one of the 1% if the draw in China meant Notts got more money from the competition.


Even that would be pretty meaningless. Firstly all clubs would get a bit so we wouldn't actually gain anything, and secondly the vast majority of any extra cash will be diverted to the top divisions. Clubs in the lower leagues will be thrown a few crumbs as usual.

[upthemaggies]

Prior to the late 1980's, did all workplaces and schools stop dead with everybody crowding around a radio at 1pm on a Monday afternoon to listen to the FA Cup draws? If not, how on Earth did they cope having to wait until they got home (and then for the news to come on)? No wonder we had so much hooliganism back then. Nothing like not hearing cup draws live to make you proper angry with life.

[forwardmagpie]

Even that would be pretty meaningless. Firstly all clubs would get a bit so we wouldn't actually gain anything, and secondly the vast majority of any extra cash will be diverted to the top divisions. Clubs in the lower leagues will be thrown a few crumbs as usual.

A little bit of something is worth more than an awful lot of nothing.
Even if it were just a few thousand pounds to me it would be worth it.
Do you really sit by your computer waiting for the cup draw???

[Elite_Pie]

Do you really sit by your computer waiting for the cup draw???

If we are involved and it's the FA or League Cup drawn at a reasonable time of day, the answer is yes.

[forwardmagpie]

If we are involved and it's the FA or League Cup drawn at a reasonable time of day, the answer is yes.

It's okay for us retired folk Elite but for most people even 1 pm isn't a reasonable time of day and guess what an hour later we have still drawn the same team.


I don't disagree with you about the dick heads running the game I just can't get too worked up about this particular issue but hey lets not get into a long winded argument about it and bore everyone.

[Elite_Pie]

and guess what an hour later we have still drawn the same team.

Not if you watched the draw for the first round and were a Charlton Athletic fan!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/40307187/internet-reacts-to-efl-cup-draw-blunders

[queenslandpie]

Possibly. There are several people (me included) boycotting the Pisspot Trophy in protest at the inclusion of 'B' teams. If we all just sit back and accept things the EFL will push their agenda much quicker.




I've moaned about some changes (see above), accepted some, even praised some. I just think that making the draw for an English cup competition in China at 04:15 is an open slap in the face to fans simply because a few EFL palms have been greased. If this goes unchallenged actual games abroad will soon follow.


You keep your old ways eLite Pie and don't move with the times. If you want to live in a capitalist society ( and I assume you do) then this is what happens eventually. It really doesn't matter either it's absolutely not a big deal. We are in effect complaining about an early round draw for a relatively insignificant trophy being made in Asia where football has a large fan base. Hopefully everyone made a few extra quid. What I would be more interested about is how the few extra quid will benefit Notts. We very much live in a global economy now and this sort of thing will become more common. I think it's great that clubs like Notts have the opportunity to be heard and talked about in another country and I think you're being very churlish but each to their own.

[Elite_Pie]

You keep your old ways eLite Pie and don't move with the times. If you want to live in a capitalist society ( and I assume you do) then this is what happens eventually. It really doesn't matter either it's absolutely not a big deal. We are in effect complaining about an early round draw for a relatively insignificant trophy being made in Asia where football has a large fan base. Hopefully everyone made a few extra quid. What I would be more interested about is how the few extra quid will benefit Notts. We very much live in a global economy now and this sort of thing will become more common. I think it's great that clubs like Notts have the opportunity to be heard and talked about in another country and I think you're being very churlish but each to their own.

These crucial words in your reply probably make my point better than I did - "this sort of thing will become more common.". That's exactly why I'm opposing it in it's infancy. You are right in so far that a draw taking place abroad is fairly insignificant, but in my opinion it's the thin end of the wedge. What will be next? The odd low level game being sold to the highest bidder abroad as a 'toe in the water' experiment? You might be happy if in a few years if Notts play XXXXX in Azerbaijan because we can earn a few quid more, but to me it stinks to high heaven.

[SmiffyPie]

These crucial words in your reply probably make my point better than I did - "this sort of thing will become more common.". That's exactly why I'm opposing it in it's infancy. You are right in so far that a draw taking place abroad is fairly insignificant, but in my opinion it's the thin end of the wedge. What will be next? The odd low level game being sold to the highest bidder abroad as a 'toe in the water' experiment? You might be happy if in a few years if Notts play XXXXX in Azerbaijan because we can earn a few quid more, but to me it stinks to high heaven.Quite right. All this change for changes sake is a load of *******s.

[Elite_Pie]

Quite right. All this change for changes sake is a load of *******s.

I don't think it's really change for changes sake, it's change for money, pure and simple. The problem is that all that money goes to players, agents, owners etc while the poor old fan pays more and more to attend games. The way those in charge are openly treating loyal supporters like dirt is the main reason I started the thread, but it seems a fair few are quite happy to be treated this way, so it will only get worse.

[forwardmagpie]

I don't think it's really change for changes sake, it's change for money, pure and simple. The problem is that all that money goes to players, agents, owners etc while the poor old fan pays more and more to attend games. The way those in charge are openly treating loyal supporters like dirt is the main reason I started the thread, but it seems a fair few are quite happy to be treated this way, so it will only get worse.

Yes what next cricket in coloured clothes, white balls, pink balls, 20 over games, day night tests umpire reviews, Duckworth Lewis, etc etc but without all this my favourite sport would have died a slow death.

[Elite_Pie]

Yes what next cricket in coloured clothes, white balls, pink balls, 20 over games, day night tests umpire reviews, Duckworth Lewis, etc etc but without all this my favourite sport would have died a slow death.

You seem to be missing the point. I'm not against change, I'm against change simply in pursuit of cash where the everyday fan is openly sh!t on from a great height.

[Bohinen]

Yes what next cricket in coloured clothes, white balls, pink balls, 20 over games, day night tests umpire reviews, Duckworth Lewis, etc etc but without all this my favourite sport would have died a slow death.

In fairness, football doesn't need all that ****e to survive, so let's show some dignity. And I say that as an ex Notts CCC junior member who still watches every ball of their matches using the BBC live stream that gets updated every other time the scorer goes to the bog.

[forwardmagpie]

You seem to be missing the point. I'm not against change, I'm against change simply in pursuit of cash where the everyday fan is openly sh!t on from a great height.

Sorry I missed the memo that said crickets changes weren't about the pursuit of cash.

Cup draws were changed years ago.

But we disagree on the importance of this.

So get your last word in and we can move on !!

[Elite_Pie]

Sorry I missed the memo that said crickets changes weren't about the pursuit of cash.

I don't see how cricket in coloured clothes, white balls, pink balls, 20 over games, day night tests umpire reviews, Duckworth Lewis etc treats the average fan like a piece of sh!t. Most were positive changes which the average cricket fan would not be against. If you see an English cup draw at 04:15 in China as not being a slap in the face to the average football fan, we might as well just move on.

[forwardmagpie]

I don't see how cricket in coloured clothes, white balls, pink balls, 20 over games, day night tests umpire reviews, Duckworth Lewis etc treats the average fan like a piece of sh!t. Most were positive changes which the average cricket fan would not be against. If you see an English cup draw at 04:15 in China as not being a slap in the face to the average football fan, we might as well just move on.

Move on