Arabtrust - actions speak louder than words

[stokearab]

https://stv.tv/sport/football/1351878-boardroom-and-boss-needs-to-changes-says-dundee-united-fans-group/

Thompson goes quiet
Arabtrust go quiet

Any comment for the non Arabtrust paid up supporting fans?
Ironic that Arabtrust came in on the back of UFC and now they fail to even mention change. Or anything.
I don't care how much money they raise for our youth set up, spare me that ffs, what are they DOING to get rid of the cancer that is killing our club?

[offshore_arab83]

They're quite happy to sit back and pretend everything is fine and well

[ahlltanyirhide]

They're quite happy to sit back and pretend everything is fine and well

I don't think they will be OA, I think they will be just as concerned as the rest of us. Best if they continue to focus on what they are good at, coz if this goes tits up then all we will have left is the youth teams ;D

[stokearab]

I don't think they will be OA, I think they will be just as concerned as the rest of us. Best if they continue to focus on what they are good at, coz if this goes tits up then all we will have left is the youth teams ;D

If it goes tits up we will not have any youth teams. We will not have a club. Fullstop.
Thompson is a clear and present danger to the future of the club we love and underestimating this could be fatal.
Arabtrust should be instrumental in Change.
They came into being as The Fans Voice On The Board and now they hide behind youth fundraising while watching the club disintegrate.
So is it reasonable to ask what are they doing about the survival of our club?
They're smug, they're arrogant, they think a reply on a messageboard or a public statement to non members is beneath them and I despise them for their silence.
I hope the new ownership when it comes sees them for what they are.

[Retired Arab]

Really? You're spreading fake news again.

[Retired Arab]

Really? You're spreading fake news again.

Really? I think you're spreading fake news again. Evidence?

[offshore_arab83]

Really? I think you're spreading fake news again. Evidence?

youve just quoted yourself so we have no idea who your replying to but assuming your part of AT so welcome aboard, be good to hear whats happening on your side

[offshore_arab83]

I don't think they will be OA, I think they will be just as concerned as the rest of us. Best if they continue to focus on what they are good at, coz if this goes tits up then all we will have left is the youth teams ;D

we'll have badges

[stokearab]

Really? I think you're spreading fake news again. Evidence?

I presume this was for me. It's not fake news, how can it be, it's just the opinion of an individual.
Gavin Muir gave that interview 4 games before we were relegated.
So assuming you have a connection of some sort to AT, can you tell us what AT has done since then to further their aim stated in the interview - the bit about change in the Boardroom?
Eddie Thompson didn't want a fans representation on the board to become a smug elitist club as it appears you (they) have become. He would have wanted open communications to all fans not just paid up AT members.
So tell us all what AT are doing to foster change at Boardroom level?

[offshore_arab83]

they make badges stoke

[Retired Arab]

If it goes tits up we will not have any youth teams. We will not have a club. Fullstop.
Thompson is a clear and present danger to the future of the club we love and underestimating this could be fatal.
Arabtrust should be instrumental in Change.
They came into being as The Fans Voice On The Board and now they hide behind youth fundraising while watching the club disintegrate.
So is it reasonable to ask what are they doing about the survival of our club?
They're smug, they're arrogant, they think a reply on a messageboard or a public statement to non members is beneath them and I despise them for their silence.
I hope the new ownership when it comes sees them for what they are.

Actions may well speak louder than words but the pen is mightier than the sword

[Retired Arab]

This is such a sad and disturbing post. There are two key points that always seem to escape critics of the trust.

Firstly the FedDUSC and ArabTRUST were and both still are very concerned about governance at Tannadice and issued joint statements. This ceased suddenly when Fed decided to take an alternative approach because ArabTRUST would not withdraw the Associate Director role. A decision trust members were firmly not in favour of. Despite this disrespectful stance the Trust have always kept dialogue open but this has been regularly rejected by Fed. In addition two groups have been formed, Fans Utd and DU Supporters Foundation. Neither have been supportive of ArabTRUST objectives namely Youth Development and community initiatives e.g. Utd for Kids. This negativity is unhealthy and suits ST and Utd Board. A simple Divide & Rule strategy.

Secondly, if you or any other Arabs are really concerned about ArabTRUST then why not just join, argue your case and we all accept democratic process? UNITY IS STRENGH. Unlike Fed the ArabTRUST welcome a range of opinions.

[offshore_arab83]

Hi Mike

[stokearab]

This is such a sad and disturbing post. There are two key points that always seem to escape critics of the trust.

Firstly the FedDUSC and ArabTRUST were and both still are very concerned about governance at Tannadice and issued joint statements. This ceased suddenly when Fed decided to take an alternative approach because ArabTRUST would not withdraw the Associate Director role. A decision trust members were firmly not in favour of. Despite this disrespectful stance the Trust have always kept dialogue open but this has been regularly rejected by Fed. In addition two groups have been formed, Fans Utd and DU Supporters Foundation. Neither have been supportive of ArabTRUST objectives namely Youth Development and community initiatives e.g. Utd for Kids. This negativity is unhealthy and suits ST and Utd Board. A simple Divide & Rule strategy.

Secondly, if you or any other Arabs are really concerned about ArabTRUST then why not just join, argue your case and we all accept democratic process? UNITY IS STRENGH. Unlike Fed the ArabTRUST welcome a range of opinions.

It's your last post that's sad and disturbing!

You deflect from the question by playing the old chestnut "pay us and we might tell you" card. Did you not read my part about Eddie wanting AT to represent ALL fans? It's hardly surprising you get flak when you seek to remain a wee elite private club.

Also you deflect by trying to involve other fan groups. This has nothing to do with other groups, nothing at all.
It was a simple question which you failed to answer, so I'll ask it again

Since Gavin Muirs interview 4 games before we were relegated what has Arabtrust done to further the aims of change in the Boardroom. Is that too hard to answer?

[PortugueseFrank]

I kind of think this is aiming anger at the wrong target.

Plus all this argument is wasting energy. It’s not a difficult task for fans that want the Trust or any of the fans groups to adopt a different strategy to make them do just that.

If enough joined and forced an EGM to elect a new board tasked with new aims then voila.

So that’s my tuppenceworth. I see all this tribal stuff as a waste of energy.

Be the change you want to see.

And you’re hardly likely to win the support of those leading the groups by slagging them off. Hearts and minds and all that.

[shedboy71]

Hi Mike

Hiya ;D

[stokearab]

I kind of think this is aiming anger at the wrong target.

Plus all this argument is wasting energy. It’s not a difficult task for fans that want the Trust or any of the fans groups to adopt a different strategy to make them do just that.

If enough joined and forced an EGM to elect a new board tasked with new aims then voila.

So that’s my tuppenceworth. I see all this tribal stuff as a waste of energy.

Be the change you want to see.

And you’re hardly likely to win the support of those leading the groups by slagging them off. Hearts and minds and all that.

Frank I like your posts on here but a little confused with that. Do you mean EGM for DUFC because ST has 51% IIRC so don't think that's a runner.
If you mean and EGM for AT what good would that do?

As to wasting energy I'm only wasting the energy of typing out the question "what is our Fans Representation on the Board actually doing to further the aim stated in the Gavin Muir interview"

If AT truly had the best interests of Dundee United at heart they should be following up on their words. For example - have THEY helped in the search for a new majority shareholder? If not, why not. etc etc

Hiding behind anonymity while the very existence of club is at risk is a dereliction of their duty.

[PortugueseFrank]

Frank I like your posts on here but a little confused with that. Do you mean EGM for DUFC because ST has 51% IIRC so don't think that's a runner.
If you mean and EGM for AT what good would that do?

As to wasting energy I'm only wasting the energy of typing out the question "what is our Fans Representation on the Board actually doing to further the aim stated in the Gavin Muir interview"

If AT truly had the best interests of Dundee United at heart they should be following up on their words. For example - have THEY helped in the search for a new majority shareholder? If not, why not. etc etc

Hiding behind anonymity while the very existence of club is at risk is a dereliction of their duty.

EGM for fan groups.

Then install boards and committees that are more in line with whatever your aims are.

It’s not a difficult process to change the direction of these groups and elect new boards. Just needs people interested enough in changing the directions of the Trust etc to put themselves forward.

That’s a lot easier than hoping that those in control will all of a sudden change to be in line with whatever aims critics have.

So my point is that these groups can be changed if people use the routes like an EGM.

Surely that’s more useful to those who want groups like the Trust to get more vocal?

Be the change you want to see and all that.

[ahlltanyirhide]

they make badges stoke

A lot of different tradesmen and women involved with ArabTRUST but yet to meet a tinsmith.

[Retired Arab]

It's your last post that's sad and disturbing!

You deflect from the question by playing the old chestnut "pay us and we might tell you" card. Did you not read my part about Eddie wanting AT to represent ALL fans? It's hardly surprising you get flak when you seek to remain a wee elite private club.

Also you deflect by trying to involve other fan groups. This has nothing to do with other groups, nothing at all.
It was a simple question which you failed to answer, so I'll ask it again

Since Gavin Muirs interview 4 games before we were relegated what has Arabtrust done to further the aims of change in the Boardroom. Is that too hard to answer?

They've done a considerable amount and certainly not enough time or space to post all details here but you're more than welcome to meet over a pint anywhere and discuss rationally like an adult.

[deebuster]

EGM for fan groups.

Then install boards and committees that are more in line with whatever your aims are.

It’s not a difficult process to change the direction of these groups and elect new boards. Just needs people interested enough in changing the directions of the Trust etc to put themselves forward.

That’s a lot easier than hoping that those in control will all of a sudden change to be in line with whatever aims critics have.

So my point is that these groups can be changed if people use the routes like an EGM.

Surely that’s more useful to those who want groups like the Trust to get more vocal?

Be the change you want to see and all that.

ArabTRUST do not have the Trust of most Arabs,

The fact that a supporters foundation is being set up means that the steering committee see them as rainted.

[Retired Arab]

Frank I like your posts on here but a little confused with that. Do you mean EGM for DUFC because ST has 51% IIRC so don't think that's a runner.
If you mean and EGM for AT what good would that do?

As to wasting energy I'm only wasting the energy of typing out the question "what is our Fans Representation on the Board actually doing to further the aim stated in the Gavin Muir interview"

If AT truly had the best interests of Dundee United at heart they should be following up on their words. For example - have THEY helped in the search for a new majority shareholder? If not, why not. etc etc

Hiding behind anonymity while the very existence of club is at risk is a dereliction of their duty.

You clearly don't understand that there is no Fans Representation on the DUFC Board only an ASSOCIATE Director REPRESENTING ArabTRUST and secondly Eddie Thompson wanted all United fans to join ArabTRUST.

[PortugueseFrank]

ArabTRUST do not have the Trust of most Arabs,

The fact that a supporters foundation is being set up means that the steering committee see them as rainted.

That’s as may be but the fact remains as the third largest shareholding in the club they have a big foothold and profile. So if fans want the Trust to be different it can be made to happen. All it takes is for people who want change to put themselves forward at an EGM or the Trust’s AGM.

Once in place they can put their views into action.

Surely that’s a better use of energy for those that think the Trust should act differently?

[Retired Arab]

That’s as may be but the fact remains as the third largest shareholding in the club they have a big foothold and profile. So if fans want the Trust to be different it can be made to happen. All it takes is for people who want change to put themselves forward at an EGM or the Trust’s AGM.

Once in place they can put their views into action.

Surely that’s a better use of energy for those that think the Trust should act differently?

^^^^^^^^^^
What a sensible post! Couldn't agree more.

[stokearab]

They've done a considerable amount and certainly not enough time or space to post all details here but you're more than welcome to meet over a pint anywhere and discuss rationally like an adult.
There's plenty space here! Fire away.
How about a bullet point summary?
Guess it would be quite short anyway.
Still refusing to answer a simple question I see 😅

[offshore_arab83]

A lot of different tradesmen and women involved with ArabTRUST but yet to meet a tinsmith.

Knitters for the scarfs?

[TerryTheTerror]

Knitters for the scarfs?

I'm not sure why folk are so down on ArabTrust's fundraising for youth development. Regardless of what form it takes it's a good thing, no?

[ahlltanyirhide]

Knitters for the scarfs?


Keep the witty retorts coming OA, and please let me know when another supporters organisation affiliated to Dundee United Football Club raises and provides over £250,000 in funding ;D

[blackandtangerine]

Keep the witty retorts coming OA, and please let me know when another supporters organisation affiliated to Dundee United Football Club raises and provides over £250,000 in funding ;D

Hiya ahlltanyirhide any news yet or were you just making it up??

[offshore_arab83]

Keep the witty retorts coming OA, and please let me know when another supporters organisation affiliated to Dundee United Football Club raises and provides over £250,000 in funding ;D

Mugs ceramic mugs

Can anyone name any other supporters organisations that never raised any alarm bells or had concerns about the running of the club?

[offshore_arab83]

I'm not sure why folk are so down on ArabTrust's fundraising for youth development. Regardless of what form it takes it's a good thing, no?

That's all it looks like they do M, it's a good thing but that seems to be all they do?

[Retired Arab]

Mugs ceramic mugs

Can anyone name any other supporters organisations that never raised any alarm bells or had concerns about the running of the club?

For someone only too swift to have a pop at fellow Arabs it's obvious you didn't even bother to read opening link

https://stv.tv/sport/football/135187...ed-fans-group/

If you have read it then you wouldn't have responded with more FAKE NEWS but of course you're just stirring. So so sad. Never ever thought I'd be so ashamed of fellow Arabs but hey ho I'm sure you've a few mates like the Tangerine & Black bearer of the Butchers Apron to support your silly extremist views :mad:

[Retired Arab]

There's plenty space here! Fire away.
How about a bullet point summary?
Guess it would be quite short anyway.
Still refusing to answer a simple question I see ��

I've not refused to answer a simple question at all so stop lying. I've offered you a clear opportunity to sit down and talk about and clearly explain your concerns about ArabTRUST matters but you haven't accepted. Why?
By the way a recent ArabTRUST tweet said "AT position not changed we want change but until that happens we work with whoever is running the club". Seems sensible, fair and practical to me and probably most reasonable Arabs too.

[stokearab]

I've not refused to answer a simple question at all so stop lying. I've offered you a clear opportunity to sit down and talk about and clearly explain your concerns about ArabTRUST matters but you haven't accepted. Why?
By the way a recent ArabTRUST tweet said "AT position not changed we want change but until that happens we work with whoever is running the club". Seems sensible, fair and practical to me and probably most reasonable Arabs too.
Maybe you should change your username to Rattled Arab because you clearly are.
I havn't lied about anything. I asked you twice for any evidence that AT have acted to move forward on the aims set out in Gavins interview. Twice you have deflected and twice you've refused.
I have no wish to sit down with you or anyone else at AT - a bizarre invitation by the way.
If you won't (can't more likely) list even the smallest action that AT have taken to foster change in the Boardroom since that pre relegation interview it seems likely that there hasn't been any action.
You're obviously unhappy that AT is being highlighted for inaction and just responding with daft insults and weird observations.
So lets give it one more try. Answer the question?

[stokearab]

For someone only too swift to have a pop at fellow Arabs it's obvious you didn't even bother to read opening link

https://stv.tv/sport/football/135187...ed-fans-group/

If you have read it then you wouldn't have responded with more FAKE NEWS but of course you're just stirring. So so sad. Never ever thought I'd be so ashamed of fellow Arabs but hey ho I'm sure you've a few mates like the Tangerine & Black bearer of the Butchers Apron to support your silly extremist views :mad:

Hope you're not the PR man at AT
Deary me.

[TerryTheTerror]

That's all it looks like they do M, it's a good thing but that seems to be all they do?

Clearly there is much more to the organisation than that, a quick look at their website will tell you that.

[ahlltanyirhide]

Hiya ahlltanyirhide any news yet or were you just making it up??

All good things come to those who wait :)

[ahlltanyirhide]

Mugs ceramic mugs

Can anyone name any other supporters organisations that never raised any alarm bells or had concerns about the running of the club?

The Blue Order, Dundee Supporters Society, and all supporter organisations affiliated to Celtic Football Club (coz if big jock knew, then surely to phukk someone else did ;D

[blackandtangerine]

All good things come to those who wait :)

Theres mair chance oh mckinnon starting with two up top i reckon ;D

[Retired Arab]

Maybe you should change your username to Rattled Arab because you clearly are.
I havn't lied about anything. I asked you twice for any evidence that AT have acted to move forward on the aims set out in Gavins interview. Twice you have deflected and twice you've refused.
I have no wish to sit down with you or anyone else at AT - a bizarre invitation by the way.
If you won't (can't more likely) list even the smallest action that AT have taken to foster change in the Boardroom since that pre relegation interview it seems likely that there hasn't been any action.
You're obviously unhappy that AT is being highlighted for inaction and just responding with daft insults and weird observations.
So lets give it one more try. Answer the question?

Just for you Stoke, to put a smile on your face, I can honesty confirm now that to the best of my knowledge ArabTRUST have encouraged at least one capable person to join the DUFC Board and continue to liaise with ST and other Directors on a weekly basis to achieve change. Now for goodness sake shut yer moaning pus!

[offshore_arab83]

For someone only too swift to have a pop at fellow Arabs it's obvious you didn't even bother to read opening link

https://stv.tv/sport/football/135187...ed-fans-group/

If you have read it then you wouldn't have responded with more FAKE NEWS but of course you're just stirring. So so sad. Never ever thought I'd be so ashamed of fellow Arabs but hey ho I'm sure you've a few mates like the Tangerine & Black bearer of the Butchers Apron to support your silly extremist views :mad:

Ha ha what fake news is that Mike? Extremist views lol because i dont think AT are doing enough for the club itself, not youth or charity works, you guys do a great job there but being a shareholder your all quite happy to sit back and take the saturday hospo packages, nothing extremist about that is there ha ha

P.S How did you get on with your membership for the United ladies? did you get in eventually?

edit to say: yer links no working

[offshore_arab83]

Clearly there is much more to the organisation than that, a quick look at their website will tell you that.

Is there? thats funny i cant see anything else apart from raising money for youth and charities which we've already discussed?

[Tannadicebunnet]

You never hear anything from arabtrust anymore. 3 or 4 years ago they would regularly post their opinions on their Facebook page but they never really comment anymore. Ok they might do some good fundraising work but would still like to hear their opinions.

Probably just another sign of the general malaise and staleness regarding everything United right now .

[offshore_arab83]

You never hear anything from arabtrust anymore. 3 or 4 years ago they would regularly post their opinions on their Facebook page but they never really comment anymore. Ok they might do some good fundraising work but would still like to hear their opinions.

Probably just another sign of the general malaise and staleness regarding everything United right now .

I had a lot of time for AT, i respect all the work they do for youth and charity work, and i can say that hand on heart, but i dont feel they do enough for the running of the club when many of their members have major concerns, from the outside looking in they have their associate director on the board and are the 3rd largest shareholder but they have zero pull or influence on the club, which is sad considering they supposedly represent their members . To have shares and a say in the running of the club, a UFC statement thats not being upheld today.

[stokearab]

Just for you Stoke, to put a smile on your face, I can honesty confirm now that to the best of my knowledge ArabTRUST have encouraged at least one capable person to join the DUFC Board and continue to liaise with ST and other Directors on a weekly basis to achieve change. Now for goodness sake shut yer moaning pus!

Thanks Retired. We got there in the end.
So with this Director now working on a weekly basis to achieve change would you say we are any closer to seeing a change of majority shareholder? ie ST

And I'll shut my moaning puss when the club show me that we're heading in the right direction again 😅

[ahlltanyirhide]

You never hear anything from arabtrust anymore. 3 or 4 years ago they would regularly post their opinions on their Facebook page but they never really comment anymore. Ok they might do some good fundraising work but would still like to hear their opinions.

Probably just another sign of the general malaise and staleness regarding everything United right now .

IMO ArabTRUST do best when they quietly go about their business, as they are back doing so now. 3-4 years ago there were a couple of right mouthy kunts involved, 'look at me' types who thought they were the bees knees :O thankfully they are not involved now.

Not surprising though that the only people being critical of ArabTRUST are those who have nothing to do with ArabTRUST.

[stokearab]

IMO ArabTRUST do best when they quietly go about their business, as they are back doing so now. 3-4 years ago there were a couple of right mouthy kunts involved, 'look at me' types who thought they were the bees knees :O thankfully they are not involved now.

Not surprising though that the only people being critical of ArabTRUST are those who have nothing to do with ArabTRUST.

If it's only turkey's voting you know Christmas is gonna get cancelled.
Your last para...

[ahlltanyirhide]

If it's only turkey's voting you know Christmas is gonna get cancelled.
Your last para...


Ya think? I thought there was a lot more to Christmas than just turkeys ;D

[stokearab]

Ya think? I thought there was a lot more to Christmas than just turkeys ;D

Well was just meaning that AT are not going to start a thread criticising themselves are they? I don't see why non paid up members can't ask questions and get replies. It's healthy surely.

[ahlltanyirhide]

Well was just meaning that AT are not going to start a thread criticising themselves are they? I don't see why non paid up members can't ask questions and get replies. It's healthy surely.

FFS it cost £15 a year to join, so if yir not willing to part with that paltry sum why the phukk should you get a say? Name me one other organisation with a paid up membership that allows non members to have a say in the running of its organisation. Eat an apple if you want to be healthy

[stokearab]

FFS it cost £15 a year to join, so if yir not willing to part with that paltry sum why the phukk should you get a say? Name me one other organisation with a paid up membership that allows non members to have a say in the running of its organisation. Eat an apple if you want to be healthy

That's exactly the type of arrogant self serving attitude I've come to expect from AT.
What I'm trying to say on this thread is that AT should be at THE FRONT of action for change. They should be LEADING it. And in view of the danger we face they shouldn't be slow to keep the wider non member fans informed.

You guys really bristle at this type of question, maybe because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

[stokearab]

FFS it cost £15 a year to join, so if yir not willing to part with that paltry sum why the phukk should you get a say? Name me one other organisation with a paid up membership that allows non members to have a say in the running of its organisation. Eat an apple if you want to be healthy

P.s. just to add I'm not looking for a say.

[offshore_arab83]

FFS it cost £15 a year to join, so if yir not willing to part with that paltry sum why the phukk should you get a say? Name me one other organisation with a paid up membership that allows non members to have a say in the running of its organisation. Eat an apple if you want to be healthy

wow what a reply!!! who says anyone wants a say, some people want to know what a majority shareholder that represents 'fans' is actually doing without having to pay £15

[offshore_arab83]

That's exactly the type of arrogant self serving attitude I've come to expect from AT.
What I'm trying to say on this thread is that AT should be at THE FRONT of action for change. They should be LEADING it. And in view of the danger we face they shouldn't be slow to keep the wider non member fans informed.

You guys really bristle at this type of question, maybe because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

Good post

[PortugueseFrank]

What I'm trying to say on this thread is that AT should be at THE FRONT of action for change. They should be LEADING it. And in view of the danger we face they shouldn't be slow to keep the wider non member fans informed.

As per my earlier contributions, surely then you and anyone who feels the same strongly enough should join and try to change their direction?

Try to force a Trust EGM, get elected on your platform.

It’s all doable. Surely a greater use of time and effort on trying to change them than complain about the actions of a board elected by its members? No?

I’m a broken record I know: Be the change you want to see.

[stokearab]

As per my earlier contributions, surely then you and anyone who feels the same strongly enough should join and try to change their direction?

Try to force a Trust EGM, get elected on your platform.

It’s all doable. Surely a greater use of time and effort on trying to change them than complain about the actions of a board elected by its members? No?

I’m a broken record I know: Be the change you want to see.

I hear what you're saying and if I lived in the area I would definitely want to get involved.
But on the wider issue there's no harm in voicing an opinion on a message board in the hope of prompting some openness.

[TerryTheTerror]

I hear what you're saying and if I lived in the area I would definitely want to get involved.
But on the wider issue there's no harm in voicing an opinion on a message board in the hope of prompting some openness.

If you were a member of the trust (still open to you abroad of course) you'd be much better informed about their actions.

[PortugueseFrank]

I hear what you're saying and if I lived in the area I would definitely want to get involved.
But on the wider issue there's no harm in voicing an opinion on a message board in the hope of prompting some openness.

Absolutely, Stoke. Nothing wrong with that.

I suppose my point can be summed up in the title you chose for this thread “actions speak louder than words”. It doesn’t need to stop at simply prompting openness. Your and many other’s desires for the Trust can be achieved.

Even though you live away you can still have an influence. You can still vote on things.

All it takes is to get enough trust members to force an EGM to propose a vote of no confidence in the current board and force elections.

Could you put together enough members/potential new members to force an EGM and stand on your platform in order to put through the change you want?

That to me seems your best route to get the Trust to be more in line with what you believe.

[deebuster]

FFS it cost £15 a year to join, so if yir not willing to part with that paltry sum why the phukk should you get a say? Name me one other organisation with a paid up membership that allows non members to have a say in the running of its organisation. Eat an apple if you want to be healthy

The phukking Masons ya phukking pryck. Wow!

[Otm_Shank]

Is there? thats funny i cant see anything else apart from raising money for youth and charities which we've already discussed?
We don't agree on much but I'm with you here. They're all to willing to taken the plaudits with that stuff (as well they should, they do a great job there by all accounts) but they don't take any criticism well at all.

[PortugueseFrank]

Being perfectly honest.

People need to put up or shut up when it is in fact itso simple to affect change on any of the fan groups directions.

Me. I’ve no interest in any of them.

There should be only one anyway.

And I’ll be honest. A changed Arabtrust is best placed to fulfil that role. Third largest shareholder, associate place on board already.

Yet. We have two new groups spring up recently that could achieve everything they wanted by forcing change at AT and the Fed, that hate the Trust anyway, could easily mobilise votes to take over control bit for some reason don’t. I find that in itself bizarre.

Portuguese Frankly I don’t see the point.

There only needs to be one group.

It smacks to me on all sides of egos and fear of defeat in winning the arguments.

We don’t need all these groups.

If you want change, go after the biggest fish (AT with its shareholding) and change it.

Everything else wastes time and muddy the waters which ultimately suits ST and his board of incompetents right down to the ground.

[seenitab4]

The phukking Masons ya phukking pryck. Wow!
Was just begining to think along these lines, cryptic lines,talk of charity work suggestions of corruption its all here really😏😏

[PortugueseFrank]

You know what I find fascinating?

The fact it takes me to point out the obvious and simple route to change the directions of a group like the Trust for people to go silent.

It’s almost as if those who call for different behaviour from the Trust or other groups don’t have the strength of their convictions to even attempt to follow through.

Is it easier to snipe from the sidelines than actually put your neck on the line?

If the trust, as an example, is to be accused of dereliction of duty then is it not also a dereliction of duty for those than can change things to simply stand back and not step forward?

That is why I find this whole conversation a complete minter for those that complain yet don’t follow the clearly set out and simple routes to change the direction of an organisation like Arabtrust.

It is in fact more damning to the critics than the trust itself.

[PortugueseFrank]

Easiest thing for disgruntled fans is to take over the Trust.

Fans United, The Fed, DUSF( who spent a ridiculous 13k setting up) could so easily have forced an EGM to take over the Trust, at no cost other than membership.

Then they’d collectively control the THIRD LARGEST SHAREHOLDER IN UNITED.

Yet for some reason they don’t.

What a waste of energy.

That is why we simply can’t take these multiple groups seriously. All of them

The trust can so easily be taken over yet for some reason these groups set up themselves?

These multiple groups’ lack of intelligence when it comes to the ease in which they could control the third largest shareholding group shows how fundamentally we as a support are beyond a joke in terms of intelligence and organisation.

I despair at the thought of fan ownership for United,

Can anyone argue to me that I’m wrong?

[shedboy71]

Easiest thing for disgruntled fans is to take over the Trust.

Fans United, The Fed, DUSF( who spent a ridiculous 13k setting up) could so easily have forced an EGM to take over the Trust, at no cost other than membership.

Then they’d collectively control the THIRD LARGEST SHAREHOLDER IN UNITED.

Yet for some reason they don’t.

What a waste of energy.

That is why we simply can’t take these multiple groups seriously. All of them

The trust can so easily be taken over yet for some reason these groups set up themselves?

These multiple groups’ lack of intelligence when it comes to the ease in which they could control the third largest shareholding group shows how fundamentally we as a support are beyond a joke in terms of intelligence and organisation.

I despair at the thought of fan ownership for United,

Can anyone argue to me that I’m wrong?

You are quickly becoming too sensible for this board. Some very good points and opinion in all your posts Frank.

[Retired Arab]

You know what I find fascinating?

The fact it takes me to point out the obvious and simple route to change the directions of a group like the Trust for people to go silent.

It’s almost as if those who call for different behaviour from the Trust or other groups don’t have the strength of their convictions to even attempt to follow through.

Is it easier to snipe from the sidelines than actually put your neck on the line?

If the trust, as an example, is to be accused of dereliction of duty then is it not also a dereliction of duty for those than can change things to simply stand back and not step forward?

That is why I find this whole conversation a complete minter for those that complain yet don’t follow the clearly set out and simple routes to change the direction of an organisation like Arabtrust.

It is in fact more damning to the critics than the trust itself.

Brilliant post PF it never fails to amaze me that there is always a simple solution to a tough problem. Common sense at last 👏

[TerryTheTerror]

Can anyone argue to me that I’m wrong?

No because you're not.

[stokearab]

You know what I find fascinating?

The fact it takes me to point out the obvious and simple route to change the directions of a group like the Trust for people to go silent.

It’s almost as if those who call for different behaviour from the Trust or other groups don’t have the strength of their convictions to even attempt to follow through.

Is it easier to snipe from the sidelines than actually put your neck on the line?

If the trust, as an example, is to be accused of dereliction of duty then is it not also a dereliction of duty for those than can change things to simply stand back and not step forward?

That is why I find this whole conversation a complete minter for those that complain yet don’t follow the clearly set out and simple routes to change the direction of an organisation like Arabtrust.

It is in fact more damning to the critics than the trust itself.

Wrong . It's created awareness and debate.

[PortugueseFrank]

Wrong . It's created awareness and debate.

What is the aim? Change or awareness and debate?

Cause if it’s change people want the steps are remarkably straightforward.

Straightforward to such a degree that it should scare the **** out of ordinary fans that those promoting and wanting to bring about change have ignored or worst are unaware of the simplest route to achieving it.

DUSF spending 13k setting up seems insane to me when they could have simply taken control of the Trust board and implemented their programme with the added clout of a place on the board (albeit a powerless AD) and the third largest shareholding.

Is it just me?

[stokearab]

What is the aim? Change or awareness and debate?

Cause if it’s change people want the steps are remarkably straightforward.

Straightforward to such a degree that it should scare the **** out of ordinary fans that those promoting and wanting to bring about change have ignored or worst are unaware of the simplest route to achieving it.

DUSF spending 13k setting up seems insane to me when they could have simply taken control of the Trust board and implemented their programme with the added clout of a place on the board (albeit a powerless AD) and the third largest shareholding.

Is it just me?


Frank, you made a lot of good points in your posts above. I've never swerved a thread in my entire time on here, but at work so can't devote much time to this. I'll post a proper response tonight.

[PortugueseFrank]

Frank, you made a lot of good points in your posts above. I've never swerved a thread in my entire time on here, but at work so can't devote much time to this. I'll post a proper response tonight.

No worries Stoke. You make good points and you’re a good poster. 👍🏻

It’s good to have debate. That’s what these boards are all about.

Would love to see more people get involved in this particular one.

[Whitfieldarab]

What is the aim? Change or awareness and debate?

Cause if it’s change people want the steps are remarkably straightforward.

Straightforward to such a degree that it should scare the **** out of ordinary fans that those promoting and wanting to bring about change have ignored or worst are unaware of the simplest route to achieving it.

DUSF spending 13k setting up seems insane to me when they could have simply taken control of the Trust board and implemented their programme with the added clout of a place on the board (albeit a powerless AD) and the third largest shareholding.

Is it just me?

If a supporters group were to get elected in as the new AT and have their place on the Utd board as the 3rd major shareholders what powers does ST have to oust them from the board? Can our chairman vote with the rest of the board to get rid of them? I'd imagine AT were handed their shares and never bought into the club so where would they stand on this? The new AT obviously wouldn't tow the party line and be yes men and would make life as uneasy as possible for ST and his cronies so what then? How much clout would the new AT really have?

Genuine questions and not a dig

[PortugueseFrank]

If a supporters group were to get elected in as the new AT and have their place on the Utd board as the 3rd major shareholders what powers does ST have to oust them from the board? Can our chairman vote with the rest of the board to get rid of them? I'd imagine AT were handed their shares and never bought into the club so where would they stand on this? The new AT obviously wouldn't tow the party line and be yes men and would make life as uneasy as possible for ST and his cronies so what then? How much clout would the new AT really have?

Genuine questions and not a dig

ST can remove their AD. As has been done in the past. But I’d imagine a new AT board that are wanting to remove ST would likely resign their AD position in protest at the way the club is run before that happened.

AT own their shares. So they’d continue to own them and be the third largest shareholder in the club. They could then do what DUSF want to do in collecting funds to entice new investors.

The clout would be the opportunity to bring about change as the third largest shareholder. Unifying the support behind one group (which is never going to happen in a million years as the supporter groups are so tribal anyway).

With their percentage they could perhaps club together with other minority shareholders to force a club EGM (5%) needed to get publicity and force a humiliating vote of no confidence in the current directors (which ST etc would see off with his 51% but it’s the publicity that would ratchet up the pressure).

Is this not the action people want? To crank up the pressure on ST etc?

I’m not advocating that specific action per se. Merely pointing out that when people say they want action to get ST out then these are strategies they could put in action themselves rather than saying “the trust should do x/y”.

People can actually make it happen themselves if they really wanted to.

[blackandtangerine]

Easiest thing for disgruntled fans is to take over the Trust.

Fans United, The Fed, DUSF( who spent a ridiculous 13k setting up) could so easily have forced an EGM to take over the Trust, at no cost other than membership.

Then they’d collectively control the THIRD LARGEST SHAREHOLDER IN UNITED.

Yet for some reason they don’t.

What a waste of energy.

That is why we simply can’t take these multiple groups seriously. All of them

The trust can so easily be taken over yet for some reason these groups set up themselves?

These multiple groups’ lack of intelligence when it comes to the ease in which they could control the third largest shareholding group shows how fundamentally we as a support are beyond a joke in terms of intelligence and organisation.

I despair at the thought of fan ownership for United,

Can anyone argue to me that I’m wrong?
Maybe it has been discussed.

[PortugueseFrank]

Maybe it has been discussed.

And what was the outcome of these discussions?

[blackandtangerine]

And what was the outcome of these discussions?
Nothing obviously as it never happened but it was discussed briefly. Maybe its something that should be discussed further with all the groups though.

[TerryTheTerror]

Nothing obviously as it never happened but it was discussed briefly. Maybe its something that should be discussed further with all the groups though.

It seems you're missing Frank's point that you think this needs discussed with 'all the groups'.

[PortugueseFrank]

And for anyone wondering how easy it is to call an EGM to install a new leadership of the trust the answer is:

“b. if a written requisition signed (except where these Rules say otherwise) by not less than 20 members or 10% of the membership, whichever is the higher, is delivered to the Society’s registered office. The requisition must state the purpose for which the meeting is to be convened. If the Secretary is not within the United Kingdom or is unwilling to convene a general meeting any Society Board member may call a general meeting.”

(Above is from a Trust website. Page 10 of the society rules)

So if it’s 500 members then you only need 50 folk to get a EGM. Surely doable if there are so many that want the Trust to go in a different direction?

[blackandtangerine]

It seems you're missing Frank's point that you think this needs discussed with 'all the groups'.
I think you are missing my point.

[Retired Arab]

I think you are missing my point.

What is your point caller? The clock is ticking TICK TOCK...

[Retired Arab]

and for anyone wondering how easy it is to call an egm to install a new leadership of the trust the answer is:

“b. If a written requisition signed (except where these rules say otherwise) by not less than 20 members or 10% of the membership, whichever is the higher, is delivered to the society’s registered office. The requisition must state the purpose for which the meeting is to be convened. If the secretary is not within the united kingdom or is unwilling to convene a general meeting any society board member may call a general meeting.”

(above is from a trust website. Page 10 of the society rules)

so if it’s 500 members then you only need 50 folk to get a egm. Surely doable if there are so many that want the trust to go in a different direction?

simples

[stokearab]

simples

Retired - genuine questions - are the AT committee aware that you are responding on here? Have you been given authority to or are these your personal opinions?

[stokearab]

You know what I find fascinating?

The fact it takes me to point out the obvious and simple route to change the directions of a group like the Trust for people to go silent.

It’s almost as if those who call for different behaviour from the Trust or other groups don’t have the strength of their convictions to even attempt to follow through.

Is it easier to snipe from the sidelines than actually put your neck on the line?

If the trust, as an example, is to be accused of dereliction of duty then is it not also a dereliction of duty for those than can change things to simply stand back and not step forward?

That is why I find this whole conversation a complete minter for those that complain yet don’t follow the clearly set out and simple routes to change the direction of an organisation like Arabtrust.

It is in fact more damning to the critics than the trust itself.

TBH when I read this I was pretty despondent because all I wanted to achieve by criticising AT was to see them in these difficult times for the club being more open with communication to non paid up members.

But seeing your later posts I'm really encouraged. It's entirely possible that AT have good reasons for adopting the strategy they have but unless they open up a bit they will continue to leave themselves open to question. So lets see if they do.
Taking your example of a mass migration in of new fans who want to see the Associate Directorship resigned, using your figures 50 new members would have to convince an existing majority of 500 to go a different route. That wouldn't be easy and would possibly need to be grown to a "holding group" of some 250 who are agreed on a new set of actions and who then join all at once and make the coup. I'm not sure how that would or could work.

What I do believe is that a really strong PR campaign would be a good place to start, but with so many fan groups at the moment this seems unlikely to happen. Are the different fans groups talking and co-ordinating a set of actions or is everyone doing their own thing?

[Dyce_arab]

Retired - genuine questions - are the AT committee aware that you are responding on here? Have you been given authority to or are these your personal opinions?

This loon no the lunatic fa made a right c unt of himself on the ArabTrust facebook no too lang ago?

[Dyce_arab]

Being perfectly honest.

People need to put up or shut up when it is in fact itso simple to affect change on any of the fan groups directions.

Me. I’ve no interest in any of them.

There should be only one anyway.

And I’ll be honest. A changed Arabtrust is best placed to fulfil that role. Third largest shareholder, associate place on board already.

Yet. We have two new groups spring up recently that could achieve everything they wanted by forcing change at AT and the Fed, that hate the Trust anyway, could easily mobilise votes to take over control bit for some reason don’t. I find that in itself bizarre.

Portuguese Frankly I don’t see the point.

There only needs to be one group.

It smacks to me on all sides of egos and fear of defeat in winning the arguments.

We don’t need all these groups.

If you want change, go after the biggest fish (AT with its shareholding) and change it.

Everything else wastes time and muddy the waters which ultimately suits ST and his board of incompetents right down to the ground.

Am i reading this right porto loon? the fans can take over ArabTrust and throw oot the turds in charge the now ?

[stokearab]

This loon no the lunatic fa made a right c unt of himself on the ArabTrust facebook no too lang ago?

Dunno Dyce. Didn't exactly cover himself in glory on here B)

[Dyce_arab]

has to be the same loon, pardon the pun. he he

[stokearab]

Am i reading this right porto loon? the fans can take over ArabTrust and throw oot the turds in charge the now ?

I'm not answering for Frank but I think he's right, yes we can. But to do it we'd need a massive influx of new members in order to dilute their power to resist it. I don't know how many members they have and I don't even know if it's advisable or a real possibility. Worth exploring if only to make them sh1t their smug pants.

[Dyce_arab]

I'm not answering for Frank but I think he's right, yes we can. But to do it we'd need a massive influx of new members in order to dilute their power to resist it. I don't know how many members they have and I don't even know if it's advisable or a real possibility. Worth exploring if only to make them sh1t their smug pants.

So we can take over and get rid of people like this Retired loon? Surely having people like that on board canna be a good thing?

[stokearab]

So we can take over and get rid of people like this Retired loon? Surely having people like that on board canna be a good thing?

Well at this point we're just exploring possibilities. It's one thing stirring the pot from here in Spain, it's entirely different to see if there's an appetite for it am ong the local support. Also, before anything like that happens AT should have the chance to defend their position and set out their agenda a little more in the open for non paying members.

[Dyce_arab]

Well at this point we're just exploring possibilities. It's one thing stirring the pot from here in Spain, it's entirely different to see if there's an appetite for it am ong the local support. Also, before anything like that happens AT should have the chance to defend their position and set out their agenda a little more in the open for non paying members.

Hope they dinna defend themselves in the manner retired has or there will be blood and snotters ahwiys min

[Dyce_arab]

Onyway, this forums too mad fir me im awa back oor to TEKEL TOWERS, nae lunatics on there min.

[PortugueseFrank]

Am i reading this right porto loon? the fans can take over ArabTrust and throw oot the turds in charge the now ?

The trust is one member, one vote as DUSF are so fond of saying.

If an EGM is called and a vote of no confidence is carried by majority in the room and votes by proxy then a new board must be elected.

[PortugueseFrank]

I'm not answering for Frank but I think he's right, yes we can. But to do it we'd need a massive influx of new members in order to dilute their power to resist it. I don't know how many members they have and I don't even know if it's advisable or a real possibility. Worth exploring if only to make them sh1t their smug pants.

It doesn’t necessarily require an influx of great numbers of new members.

You simply need enough existing or new members to call an EGM and then a majority in the room to carry any vote,

So if 40 folk turn up and that’s all that votes then you’d only need 21 to carry any votes.

The trust has always had this remarkably Democratic route that could’ve been utilised at any time.

One member, one vote.

Instead of spending 13k (which will come out of the members direct debits) to set themselves up as pretty much exactly the same kind of legal entity as the trust, the DUSF simply could’ve spent around £750 signing up 50 members to the Trust then take over at an EGM.

Which I think illustrates quite acutely why DUSF seems to me to a missed a rather glaring and much simpler route and makes me a bit wary of their abilities to deliver.

I’m sure they are all smashing and smart guys but did not one of them sit up at their meetings and go “hey guys, could’nt we just take over the Trust? Would save our members a lot of cash”.

Instead 13k spunked reinventing the wheel. That’s ST thinking right there!

I’m reminded of the story (a myth but still) of NASA supposedly spending millions of dollars trying to invent a zero gravity pen, as pens don’t work in space. Millions of taxpayers money invested. What did the soviets do?

Used pencils. Voila.

So why use a zero gravity pen when you can just use a pencil?

[littlebeach]

Except the money spent DID NOT come out of direct debits! The expenses were covered personally by the Founder members!
As for Arabtrust, I believe it has been tainted by its continual act of disappearing up the boards backside and the only alternative was to set up a new entity without any baggage
Arabtrust could and should have had the vision to do what the Foundation are now setting out to do but did not do it. Why?

[PortugueseFrank]

Except the money spent DID NOT come out of direct debits! The expenses were covered personally by the Founder members!
As for Arabtrust, I believe it has been tainted by its continual act of disappearing up the boards backside and the only alternative was to set up a new entity without any baggage
Arabtrust could and should have had the vision to do what the Foundation are now setting out to do but did not do it. Why?

I get what you are saying but that’s still member money that could’ve been put to better use.

Ok, so founder members money pays to setup an organisation who’s very steering group could simply have taken over the Trust board at minimal cost in comparison.

Then made clear their new focus and intention, their break with the perceived issues that see people so against the Trust. Would you have been against this, Little Beach? I’d be keen to know the answer to that.

Would anyone have been against that? And can they explain why?

Dundee United is tainted, so should we just set up a new club “without any baggage” as you put it? No of course not.

And let’s also not forget this important fact:

DUSF is an entity in much the same way as Arabtrust. In that it is one member, one vote.

What happens if the DUSF members all of a sudden decide to elect a board that stands on a platform to work with the current regime at Tannadice or even elects the current members of the Arabtrust board for example after they have stood on a platform to merge DUSF with the Trust?

Democracy being what it is, will this be accepted? Or will fans setup another group at a cost again?

How many groups will be setup when all you needed to do in the first place was to rally your vote and win control of the trust?

[Whitfieldarab]

It might just be that DUSF didn't want to be seen as confrontational from the outset. It might not look good to some that their 1st act as a new body were to usurp AT or maybe the long term goal of the foundation is to fully take over so they don't want to rock the boat.

All ifs and buts though.

[PortugueseFrank]

It’s not confrontational to seek to use democratic levers to change the direction of Arabtrust. It’s the best route to go down imo.

And if the brand is so damaged, one of their first acts could be to “rebrand”.

The more I think about it the more I come back to these points:

13k could’ve been saved by taking control of an organisation already setup to do what DUSF can with the added bonus of an existing seat on the club board (which they could resign if they wanted) and the third largest shareholding in the club.

And we also have to be alert to the fact that DUSF could eventually elect a leadership in favour of and vote by majority of members to provide finances to the club under its current regime.

I think I should point out this isn’t anything against DUSF. Im sure they’re great guys and hearts in right place.

Fans United for example could have done the same. Then they could’ve saved on the yellow scarfs, banners and leaflets.

The point is, any disgruntled groups could seize control of the trust, with all its shares etc, and push their agenda. It would also give the ordinary punter 1 group to get behind rather than 5 or 6.

[Retired Arab]

This loon no the lunatic fa made a right c unt of himself on the ArabTrust facebook no too lang ago?


Dyce is obviously incapable of contributing to this discussion so instead deflects from main issues by being abusive. Typical schoolkid behaviour. Mnnnnn.....So sad!

[Retired Arab]

Retired - genuine questions - are the AT committee aware that you are responding on here? Have you been given authority to or are these your personal opinions?


You're way off the mark here Stoke. You think you know but you've really not got a clue about many issues including who I am. Lots of decent Arabs support the ArabTRUST viewpoint. Just because they don't read or post on UNITED MAD or social media platforms doesn't mean they don't exist. Remember 28,000 went to Hampden just 7 years ago. Think about that number - TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND. And btw I'm certainly not saying they all support ArabTRUST.

[stokearab]

You're way off the mark here Stoke. You think you know but you've really not got a clue about many issues including who I am. Lots of decent Arabs support the ArabTRUST viewpoint. Just because they don't read or post on UNITED MAD or social media platforms doesn't mean they don't exist. Remember 28,000 went to Hampden just 7 years ago. Think about that number - TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND. And btw I'm certainly not saying they all support ArabTRUST.

Failing to answer a simple question yet again. Which was are you posting on behalf of AT or are these your own opinions.

Now if you're referring to the number 500 it was a hypothetical number used by by Frank to demonstrate that 10% - 50 - could force an EGM. No-one was suggesting that AT have a membership as low as that.

I don't know if you're involved in any capacity at AT but you're posts on here seem to confirm Dyce Arabs opinion because you display the type of smug arrogant attitude that we expect from AT

Personally I wouldn't trust you to make the tea at a meeting.

[littlebeach]

If I did not know better I would believe that Portuguese Tam and retired Arab are one and the same person

[PortugueseFrank]

Here we go.

First I was Jim Spence, now I’m retired Arab? What is that when you ask questions you get accused of being people you’re not?

I asked a question and sought your answer Little Beach.

I notice you haven’t answered and got straight to accusing me of being someone else.

Care to answer? It was a polite and non confrontational question.

[Dyce_arab]

Dyce is obviously incapable of contributing to this discussion so instead deflects from main issues by being abusive. Typical schoolkid behaviour. Mnnnnn.....So sad!
same as the abuse you dished oot to Stoke on the other thread while you deflected from the question he asked on here? Typical schoolkid behaviour, i hope that doesnt mean your gonna lift your hands to me

[Dyce_arab]

I don't know if you're involved in any capacity at AT but you're posts on here seem to confirm Dyce Arabs opinion because you display the type of smug arrogant attitude that we expect from AT

Personally I wouldn't trust you to make the tea at a meeting. aye thats the tosser Stokearab, hes a fool min.

[Retired Arab]

Here we go.

First I was Jim Spence, now I’m retired Arab? What is that when you ask questions you get accused of being people you’re not?

I asked a question and sought your answer Little Beach.

I notice you haven’t answered and got straight to accusing me of being someone else.

Care to answer? It was a polite and non confrontational question.

Are you Rumpelstiltskin?

[PortugueseFrank]

Why does this thread need to be derailed with squabbling? The original debate is still live and I think there are important points to be discussed.

Squabble in private message by Christ.

[Dyce_arab]

Why does this thread need to be derailed with squabbling? The original debate is still live and I think there are important points to be discussed.

Squabble in private message by Christ.

Sorry Porto min em awa back to TEK

[stokearab]

same as the abuse you dished oot to Stoke on the other thread while you deflected from the question he asked on here? Typical schoolkid behaviour, i hope that doesnt mean your gonna lift your hands to me

I have never met the person who is alleged to have lifted hands, but I know who you are referring to. Is this person involved at AT in any senior capacity? Or is he havering on here leading us a dance?

[stokearab]

Why does this thread need to be derailed with squabbling? The original debate is still live and I think there are important points to be discussed.

Squabble in private message by Christ.

Is the debate still alive? Not so sure. Will anything come of it? Unlikely.
The Judean Peoples Front springs to mind.

[PortugueseFrank]

Is the debate still alive? Not so sure. Will anything come of it? Unlikely.
The Judean Peoples Front springs to mind.

Yes it is all a bit Judean People Front.

It’s oretty disheartening to see so many uninvolved in this when there are so many that say they want ST out etc and I’ve set out a way to put pressure on with the added cloud of a directorship, the third largest shareholding and the legal wherewithal to do the foundation fundraising ideas.

Maybe there’s too many interested in having their own groups and not the confidence to win popular support.

Too many egos involved?

I certainly don’t have the all the answers.

I’ve posited one idea of winning control of the trust as a way to exert pressure with added clout of the shares etc.

Maybe I should setup the Dundee United Supporters Coalition and demand my place at the table with ST.

Seems to be the done thing these days.

[stokearab]

Yes it is all a bit Judean People Front.

It’s oretty disheartening to see so many uninvolved in this when there are so many that say they want ST out etc and I’ve set out a way to put pressure on with the added cloud of a directorship, the third largest shareholding and the legal wherewithal to do the foundation fundraising ideas.

Maybe there’s too many interested in having their own groups and not the confidence to win popular support.

Too many egos involved?

I certainly don’t have the all the answers.

I’ve posited one idea of winning control of the trust as a way to exert pressure with added clout of the shares etc.

Maybe I should setup the Dundee United Supporters Coalition and demand my place at the table with ST.

Seems to be the done thing these days.

A re*****ised AT could have a management committee comprising reps from FU DUBC DUSF FED etc (who have I missed), and the best from AT itself. That would be be a formidable committee/org. It would be nice to think that some in these organisations have read this thread and thought, yeah. Our club is in danger and this is no time for ego's and splinter groups with different agendas.

[PortugueseFrank]

A re*****ised AT could have a management committee comprising reps from FU DUBC DUSF FED etc (who have I missed), and the best from AT itself. That would be be a formidable committee/org. It would be nice to think that some in these organisations have read this thread and thought, yeah. Our club is in danger and this is no time for ego's and splinter groups with different agendas.

Stoke. That is a tremendous suggestion.

That way the third largest shareholder has the full cross section of groups, it’s place on the board to resignor otherwise and the small but symbolically significant shareholding that could, with other support, call a symbolic and pressure increasing club EGM.

Surely the will for change and the desire to put the club first and foresmost is so strong that these groups can collectively see a path for the greater good of all supporters of Dundee United.

I live in hope that it’s actually all about United and not individuals and egos.

[Retired Arab]

A re*****ised AT could have a management committee comprising reps from FU DUBC DUSF FED etc (who have I missed), and the best from AT itself. That would be be a formidable committee/org. It would be nice to think that some in these organisations have read this thread and thought, yeah. Our club is in danger and this is no time for ego's and splinter groups with different agendas.

Hallelujah, well said Stoke. You've got it at last 👏

[PortugueseFrank]

Leave the snide out RA.

This is about United.

The snide needs parked outside.

[Retired Arab]

Leave the snide out RA.

This is about United.

The snide needs parked outside.

Oops sorry Mike. I agree UNITED we Stand and DIVIDED we Fall

[stokearab]

Hallelujah, well said Stoke. You've got it at last 👏

Met a few of your types down the years >:(

[stokearab]

Oops sorry Mike. I agree UNITED we Stand and DIVIDED we Fall

I smell panic

[PortugueseFrank]

I smell panic

The sniping from all sides is so unnecessary and make me despair.

Stoke has made great contributions to this debate.

Keep the snide to private messages please.

Forums are a bit “Wild West” but ffs United is more important than petty squabbles.

So RA, SA etc please stop.

I’m only interested in United. Not interested in any posturing or egos.

You do what has been a 6 page, civil debate a disservice.

It’s meant to be about Dundee United so CHECK YOUR EGOS AT THE DOOR.

[offshore_arab83]

This has been a decent thread to be honest

[PortugueseFrank]

This has been a decent thread to be honest

It has.

I just wish more posters got involved.

Because at its crux is the role the support can play in securing our club’s future.

The petty squabbles are uneccesary and egocentric distractions.

Forums are about debate. Not snide.

It may be only my opinion but this is one of the most important threads on United Mad since I joined.

We all can play a role (however small) in shaping things from a “what the ordinary fan can do” perspective.

I want United to be a roaring success. Not what it is at the moment. That’s my only guiding focus on this forum.

I don’t have all the answers, no individual does. But debate can perhaps discover a route that achieves what we all want: a successful Dundee United.

[JamesMcClean]

It has.

I just wish more posters got involved.

Because at its crux is the role the support can play in securing our club’s future.

The petty squabbles are uneccesary and egocentric distractions.

Forums are about debate. Not snide.

It may be only my opinion but this is one of the most important threads on United Mad since I joined.

We all can play a role (however small) in shaping things from a “what the ordinary fan can do” perspective.

I want United to be a roaring success. Not what it is at the moment. That’s my only guiding focus on this forum.

I don’t have all the answers, no individual does. But debate can perhaps discover a route that achieves what we all want: a successful Dundee United.

Reading this thread confirms what I've thought for a while - that the baldy clown has reduced us to Fun-esque levels of mediocrity on the pitch, with squabbling and in fighting amongst various supporters factions off the pitch, who all claim to know better than the other ones.

He MUST be a Dee surely as no self respecting United supporter would ever have let it get to this.

Thanks very much Baldy.

[RAM1971]

I have long stated that in my opinion that all or most of our ills emanate from the top of the Club, that being the root or source of it all. At times I have been castigated for holding this view, whilst others have focused on the team coach etc. I personally cannot envisage any real improvement in just about any department at Tannadice until such time as we have new owners of the Club. Even then, change carries its own risks, but who would argue against taking such a risk?

These views are entirely my own.

[TangerineDream]

I agree with much of what Frank has posted here and especially all these differing factions and splits within the support and supporters groups.

We need ONE body , instead of all this bickering and jostling for position. Perhaps a re*****ised and reorganised Arabtrust would have been the way to go. Can't see it happening now though with all the arguing and different views/ positions. All the supporters groups need to get together and sort all this out for a unified approach to move our club forward. Can't see that happening somehow.

Hopefully we can get some change of ownership soon , appropriate ownership !! , and perhaps that will be the catalyst.

[PortugueseFrank]

Except the money spent DID NOT come out of direct debits! The expenses were covered personally by the Founder members!
As for Arabtrust, I believe it has been tainted by its continual act of disappearing up the boards backside and the only alternative was to set up a new entity without any baggage
Arabtrust could and should have had the vision to do what the Foundation are now setting out to do but did not do it. Why?

Popped in to defend DUSF. Which is fine.

Then deflected my question when the my accused me of being Retired Arab.

Ignored my polite and perfectly reasonable question.

I’m guessing youre a DUSF Steering group member. Perhaps even one who profited from the 13k spend? Which is fine.

Regardless. No reason not to answer my reasonable question.

For me it just adds to the obviousness of the egos at play

[offshore_arab83]

It has.

I just wish more posters got involved.

Because at its crux is the role the support can play in securing our club’s future.

The petty squabbles are uneccesary and egocentric distractions.

Forums are about debate. Not snide.

It may be only my opinion but this is one of the most important threads on United Mad since I joined.

We all can play a role (however small) in shaping things from a “what the ordinary fan can do” perspective.

I want United to be a roaring success. Not what it is at the moment. That’s my only guiding focus on this forum.

I don’t have all the answers, no individual does. But debate can perhaps discover a route that achieves what we all want: a successful Dundee United.

I know, alot of arabs are totally done with the whole thing, alot are totally drained...

[shedboy71]

I know, alot of arabs are totally done with the whole thing, alot are totally drained...

yup emotionally its obvious and no wonder

[PortugueseFrank]

I know, alot of arabs are totally done with the whole thing, alot are totally drained...

Understandable.

That just leaves us with the current failure fan groups that have achieved the square root of **** all in changing things.

Because it’s all half hearted.

If they were serious they’d put the club ahead of their own little private fiefdoms.

[offshore_arab83]

Understandable.

That just leaves us with the current failure fan groups that have achieved the square root of **** all in changing things.

Because it’s all half hearted.

If they were serious they’d put the club ahead of their own little private fiefdoms.

Again i agree with this. A big sit down is required IMO.

[PortugueseFrank]

Again i agree with this. A big sit down is required IMO.

Will never happen. Too much historical grudges and tribalism.

[shedboy71]

Will never happen. Too much historical grudges and tribalism.

sad stuff.

SRYB

[littlebeach]

Mike?
Ah now I get it

[stokearab]

Understandable.

That just leaves us with the current failure fan groups that have achieved the square root of **** all in changing things.

Because it’s all half hearted.

If they were serious they’d put the club ahead of their own little private fiefdoms.

fao Duke - this thread

[Dyce_arab]

Mike?
Ah now I get it

aye that fool!!! pish and wind min, hes pish and wind