One for the historians

[jdfc]

Why was the main stand at Dens built on an angle ? is there any other examples of other grounds with similar stands

[Mudskipper]

I was always led to believe it was for viewing purposes which probably makes sense as if you were at the extremities of the stand you wouldn't have to look directly into the persons next to you shoulder if you see what I mean .

Designed by Archibald Leitch who pretty much was the go to designer at the time ,his work includes Hampden /Ibrox/Goodison/Roker park/Stamford Bridge might even be Wembley though not sure of the top of my head and loads more.

You'll probably remember at Ibrox /Roker and Goodison there was a lattice design on the upper tiers that was very much a Leitch signature at the time.

Goodison also has a kink in the main stand if you look at an old historical view ,actually pretty sure he did the Tynecastle main stand that has just been demolished.

[Returnofrros]

I was always led to believe it was for viewing purposes which probably makes sense as if you were at the extremities of the stand you wouldn't have to look directly into the persons next to you shoulder if you see what I mean .

Designed by Archibald Leitch who pretty much was the go to designer at the time ,his work includes Hampden /Ibrox/Goodison/Roker park/Stamford Bridge might even be Wembley though not sure of the top of my head and loads more.

You'll probably remember at Ibrox /Roker and Goodison there was a lattice design on the upper tiers that was very much a Leitch signature at the time.

Goodison also has a kink in the main stand if you look at an old historical view ,actually pretty sure he did the Tynecastle main stand that has just been demolished.

Bradford and Bradford park avenue also spring to mind.

Bonus question.

Who was stand opened against?

Score?

Capacity of stand?

[Returnofrros]

Windsor park, Twickenham, parkhead, white Hart lane, the Dell. Molineux and craven cottage are others.

But United have the finest grandstand in the land😂

Oh and they don't fear relegation......****.

[Mudskipper]

A dab at my work was trying to talk down the main stand at Dens and I was about to go down the Archibald Leitch route ,his argument was that it was a fire hazard ,after a few minutes further discussion turns out he lives in a timber framed house ,some peeps are to stupid to insult ,I still think it looks impressively old school we'll miss it when we're at Campy nou...

[Returnofrros]

A dab at my work was trying to talk down the main stand at Dens and I was about to go down the Archibald Leitch route ,his argument was that it was a fire hazard ,after a few minutes further discussion turns out he lives in a timber framed house ,some peeps are to stupid to insult ,I still think it looks impressively old school we'll miss it when we're at Campy nou...

First end I was a "regular " in, section nearest the provie.

Year st mirren won league and clydebank runners up.

ALso in there when we beat tic 5-1.

Fantastic auld stand.

[shaded]

we played
ayr utd, won 1-0 in front of 20,000 goal scorer w mclean

original stand held 11592



Bradford and Bradford park avenue also spring to mind.

Bonus question.

Who was stand opened against?

Score?

Capacity of stand?

[Mudskipper]

Opened against St Bernard's ,had to look that up though as I knew it was a team that was no longer in existence but was looking at Third Lanark or similar....

[Returnofrros]

we played
ayr utd, won 1-0 in front of 20,000 goal scorer w mclean

original stand held 11592

That's my understanding although 6840 of that capacity was the enclosure.

[Returnofrros]

Opened against St Bernard's ,had to look that up though as I knew it was a team that was no longer in existence but was looking at Third Lanark or similar....

Where are you getting that from mudskipper?

Wonder if there was a first game and an official opening.

[Mudskipper]

Think it was on the official site under history tab ,started off at West Craigie onto Carolina Port and then to Dens.

Just had a wee look on Archibald Leitch also ,that is some CV in stadia ,unsurprisingly the one ground that always impressed me even though I've never been was Villa Park with the old Holte End ,looked more like a stately home than a football ground.

Always liked the facade at Ibrox with the glass stairwells and the old entrance to Hampden ,just from an architectural point of course....

[Returnofrros]

Think it was on the official site under history tab ,started off at West Craigie onto Carolina Port and then to Dens.

Just had a wee look on Archibald Leitch also ,that is some CV in stadia ,unsurprisingly the one ground that always impressed me even though I've never been was Villa Park with the old Holte End ,looked more like a stately home than a football ground.

Always liked the facade at Ibrox with the glass stairwells and the old entrance to Hampden ,just from an architectural point of course....

Think that game was the opening of Dens.

Stand didn't open till late 20's.

[shaded]

That's my understanding although 6840 of that capacity was the enclosure.

the directors box held over 100

[shaded]

That's my understanding although 6840 of that capacity was the enclosure.

i have copys o the original drawings mate fantastic they are,let u see them sometime

[Mudskipper]

Think that game was the opening of Dens.

Stand didn't open till late 20's.

Apologies guys...brain fart moment yes that was ground opening not the stand...as you were....��

[jdfc]

Glass stairwells at ibrox only came in late 80's early 90's, all the stands that have been mentioned don't have the "kink" like Dens

[Mudskipper]

I was just naming some other grounds that he had designed not claiming they had the kink ,maybe never made myself clear ,only Goodison has the kink in fact 2 kinks but not on the main stand like I thought but directly across from it,pic won't load up to the site but it's definitely there but less prominent than Dens ,don't know what era it was from as obviously not like now would guess at 50's maybe...

[Returnofrros]

i have copys o the original drawings mate fantastic they are,let u see them sometime

Lol. Excellent taste.

I have print hanging up in my sun room.

Number 10/21.

Bought at a very good price from a very good Dee man.

[ABERFELDYDEE]

i have copys o the original drawings mate fantastic they are,let u see them sometime

like

[shaded]

Lol. Excellent taste.

I have print hanging up in my sun room.

Number 10/21.

Bought at a very good price from a very good Dee man.

yip i know the 1 you mean,but there are other drawings ,1 thats very interesting as it has the plans of the rooms below the seating area,board room/treatment area etc,very interesting stuff well from my point of view,all done in true techy drawing hand,
sadly when i looked at the plans it appears to show the only location of where Hugie Ferguson couldv ended his life,story below.He had a rough time at dens thru illness etc,story tells the dundee timespan near the end


Among the seething Cardiff City support in Wembley this afternoon will be a son and his elderly father clutching a stuffed black cat. Despite their Scottish accents and unusual fan accessory, the pair will go largely unnoticed as the Bluebirds are caught up in FA Cup final frenzy. Yet perhaps they should not. For there in their surname, and yes in that manky old moggie, lies a story that should touch the hearts of any footballing romantic. Cardiffian or not.

In 1927, Hughie Ferguson scored Cardiff's goal that defeated Arsenal and in that instant the English Cup was renamed. It was famously not the Scotsman's only contribution to the Celtic cause. For at Royal Birkdale golf course just before a fifth-round tie at Bolton, Ferguson had felt a black cat brush against his leg just as he was about to wage war on his "gutty". His drive went straight and he deemed it to have been a lucky enough omen to make enquiries where the cat lived.So off to the Southport home Ferguson trotted, carrying Trixie. He knocked on the door and asked the startled owners if he could "borrow" the pet as Cardiff's lucky mascot for the rest of the Cup run. He offered two tickets for the final in exchange – when and if they made it – and that was that; another enchanting Cup tale in the making. Trixie's magic duly did the trick and there she can be seen in the old team photos and ensuing celebrations at Cardiff Town Hall. In fact, Trixie did not much fancy a return to the seaside and saw out the rest of her life at Ninian Park.


Except that was not that. After the final, Ferguson spotted a stuffed black cat in a shop window and purchased it for his wife. And today that black cat will be making the same journey up Wembley Way as the "real" one did 81 years ago. It will be taken up there by Ferguson's son and grandson who will doubtless have a tear in their eyes. The word "doubtless" must appear because of what happened next in the tragic tale of Hughie Ferguson.

In 1930, not even three years after being instrumental in taking the world's most famous trophy out of England for the first and so far only time, Ferguson was found dead at the Dundee stadium, Dens Park. A team of painters discovered his body prone on a gas ring in a kitchen at the back of the main stand with his cap drawn tightly around his head. The 33-year-old had not only left behind a wife, son and daughter, but also an unborn son.

Speaking to The Independent yesterday, his grandson, Hugh Jnr, tried to describe what it will be like at Wembley. "I went down to the semi-final and in a way toasted my grandad's memory then, but my father, Tom, who is 82, was ill and couldn't come with me," he said. "He is fit enough to travel down from Scotland this time, though, and I'm certain it will be emotional for him. I think he might struggle to keep it all in. You know, my father has never much talked about what happened to his dad and it's difficult to know how he will be feeling. I just know we'll both be cheering on Cardiff as much as anyone there and we hope the presence of the black cat helps. Legend says that it did in '27."
The cat has been lovingly stitched back together by Hugh Jnr's mother. "It's still got the original tartan ribbon as well," said the 51-year-old. "In fact I saw a few being carried down at the semi-final so we shouldn't look too odd and it will be funny that the other supporters realise the significance of our cat. I have my grandad's Cup-winners' medal so I'll give that a little rub. My family has always cheered on Cardiff and right until she died, when she was 97, my grandmother always looked out for their result, every Saturday without fail. It's a lovely story. Sad, yes. But still, a very proud story."

Best to begin at the beginning of the Fergusons' love affair with Cardiff. It was November 1925, and the Bluebirds, still smarting from their Cup final defeat against Sheffield United earlier that year, decided to break their transfer record to sign the little Glaswegian for £4,000 from Motherwell. The perfect evidence of what the Lanarkshire town thought of the striker who scored more than 100 goals in under four seasons, was provided in the closing down of the local steelworks for the workers to line the streets to wave Ferguson on his way.

Before too long the Welsh were similarly in awe. Of the 91 goals Ferguson scored in 138 games, one would inevitably stand out above all others – 23 April 1927. "It certainly wasn't my grandfather's best goal but it is the one for which he will forever be remembered," said Hugh Jnr. "There remains a bit of a conspiracy theory around it. The Arsenal goalkeeper, Dan Lewis, was Welsh, which cast some suspicion on him. He blamed the sheen that he said allowed the ball to slip through on the brand new jersey he was wearing and ever since it has been a superstition at Arsenal to put the goalkeeper's jersey through the wash before every game. They still do it to this day. Perhaps because of that, my grandfather never got the credit he deserved as the match-winner. But they all count. And boy did that one count."

Everything went largely to plan for a little while after the final. Ferguson scored five in a 7-0 win over Burnley, which is still a Cardiff record, but then a back injury struck and in 1929 he was transferred to Dundee for the used-goods price of £500. And within a few months he was dead.
The narrative always had it that Ferguson could not handle the abuse he was receiving from the Dundee crowd following just two goals in 17 appearances. His family have another theory, one that could, quite understandably, have made their grief that bit less of a burden to shoulder. "He was suffering from an imbalance of his inner-ear by the time he came up to play for Dundee," said his grandson. "There was something pressing down on his inner ear and the family believed it was a brain tumour that was never diagnosed.

"The result was that he kept falling down on the park, which didn't go down well with the Dundee fans. There were was a bit of barracking. That's how fans are. Hughie also suffered terribly from insomnia, so you can imagine how difficult things must have been for him."
For his wife, Jessie, it was unimaginably tough. She was pregnant with their third child, with little to console her barring the fact that her husband was still cherished in Motherwell and Cardiff. He still is, as his grandson proves with the occasional trip down to Ninian Park. "I travel a bit with my job as a salesman for a medical firm so whenever I'm in the area I'll give Cardiff a call and they look after me with a seat in the directors' box," he said. "They've sorted us out with final tickets and we're very grateful." Some say it is the least the club could do and it can only be hoped that Cardiff's first final since may help the Ferguson family at last gain some closure, however small, however irrelevant. Who knows, maybe the highs of that afternoon eight decades ago made the lows Ferguson was to suffer that much harder to bear and maybe Welsh football's finest hour did come at a terrible price? Football and the Fergusons will never know for sure.

"I often wonder what the poor man must have been going through," said Hugh Jnr. "He didn't live to see his children grow up, to see his youngest son, Jack, appear in two Olympics in water-polo. Of course, he wouldn't have been round to see Cardiff in the final again now but I'm sure he'll be watching. I know some people might say it's naff, but it'll be nice to think of him up there looking down with that black cat Trixie on his knee. That's surely what the FA Cup is all about."

Curse of the Cup final goalscorer Players who went into decline after hitting heights

[Returnofrros]

yip i know the 1 you mean,but there are other drawings ,1 thats very interesting as it has the plans of the rooms below the seating area,board room/treatment area etc,very interesting stuff well from my point of view,all done in true techy drawing hand,
sadly when i looked at the plans it appears to show the only location of where Hugie Ferguson couldv ended his life,story below.He had a rough time at dens thru illness etc,story tells the dundee timespan near the end


Among the seething Cardiff City support in Wembley this afternoon will be a son and his elderly father clutching a stuffed black cat. Despite their Scottish accents and unusual fan accessory, the pair will go largely unnoticed as the Bluebirds are caught up in FA Cup final frenzy. Yet perhaps they should not. For there in their surname, and yes in that manky old moggie, lies a story that should touch the hearts of any footballing romantic. Cardiffian or not.

In 1927, Hughie Ferguson scored Cardiff's goal that defeated Arsenal and in that instant the English Cup was renamed. It was famously not the Scotsman's only contribution to the Celtic cause. For at Royal Birkdale golf course just before a fifth-round tie at Bolton, Ferguson had felt a black cat brush against his leg just as he was about to wage war on his "gutty". His drive went straight and he deemed it to have been a lucky enough omen to make enquiries where the cat lived.So off to the Southport home Ferguson trotted, carrying Trixie. He knocked on the door and asked the startled owners if he could "borrow" the pet as Cardiff's lucky mascot for the rest of the Cup run. He offered two tickets for the final in exchange – when and if they made it – and that was that; another enchanting Cup tale in the making. Trixie's magic duly did the trick and there she can be seen in the old team photos and ensuing celebrations at Cardiff Town Hall. In fact, Trixie did not much fancy a return to the seaside and saw out the rest of her life at Ninian Park.


Except that was not that. After the final, Ferguson spotted a stuffed black cat in a shop window and purchased it for his wife. And today that black cat will be making the same journey up Wembley Way as the "real" one did 81 years ago. It will be taken up there by Ferguson's son and grandson who will doubtless have a tear in their eyes. The word "doubtless" must appear because of what happened next in the tragic tale of Hughie Ferguson.

In 1930, not even three years after being instrumental in taking the world's most famous trophy out of England for the first and so far only time, Ferguson was found dead at the Dundee stadium, Dens Park. A team of painters discovered his body prone on a gas ring in a kitchen at the back of the main stand with his cap drawn tightly around his head. The 33-year-old had not only left behind a wife, son and daughter, but also an unborn son.

Speaking to The Independent yesterday, his grandson, Hugh Jnr, tried to describe what it will be like at Wembley. "I went down to the semi-final and in a way toasted my grandad's memory then, but my father, Tom, who is 82, was ill and couldn't come with me," he said. "He is fit enough to travel down from Scotland this time, though, and I'm certain it will be emotional for him. I think he might struggle to keep it all in. You know, my father has never much talked about what happened to his dad and it's difficult to know how he will be feeling. I just know we'll both be cheering on Cardiff as much as anyone there and we hope the presence of the black cat helps. Legend says that it did in '27."
The cat has been lovingly stitched back together by Hugh Jnr's mother. "It's still got the original tartan ribbon as well," said the 51-year-old. "In fact I saw a few being carried down at the semi-final so we shouldn't look too odd and it will be funny that the other supporters realise the significance of our cat. I have my grandad's Cup-winners' medal so I'll give that a little rub. My family has always cheered on Cardiff and right until she died, when she was 97, my grandmother always looked out for their result, every Saturday without fail. It's a lovely story. Sad, yes. But still, a very proud story."

Best to begin at the beginning of the Fergusons' love affair with Cardiff. It was November 1925, and the Bluebirds, still smarting from their Cup final defeat against Sheffield United earlier that year, decided to break their transfer record to sign the little Glaswegian for £4,000 from Motherwell. The perfect evidence of what the Lanarkshire town thought of the striker who scored more than 100 goals in under four seasons, was provided in the closing down of the local steelworks for the workers to line the streets to wave Ferguson on his way.

Before too long the Welsh were similarly in awe. Of the 91 goals Ferguson scored in 138 games, one would inevitably stand out above all others – 23 April 1927. "It certainly wasn't my grandfather's best goal but it is the one for which he will forever be remembered," said Hugh Jnr. "There remains a bit of a conspiracy theory around it. The Arsenal goalkeeper, Dan Lewis, was Welsh, which cast some suspicion on him. He blamed the sheen that he said allowed the ball to slip through on the brand new jersey he was wearing and ever since it has been a superstition at Arsenal to put the goalkeeper's jersey through the wash before every game. They still do it to this day. Perhaps because of that, my grandfather never got the credit he deserved as the match-winner. But they all count. And boy did that one count."

Everything went largely to plan for a little while after the final. Ferguson scored five in a 7-0 win over Burnley, which is still a Cardiff record, but then a back injury struck and in 1929 he was transferred to Dundee for the used-goods price of £500. And within a few months he was dead.
The narrative always had it that Ferguson could not handle the abuse he was receiving from the Dundee crowd following just two goals in 17 appearances. His family have another theory, one that could, quite understandably, have made their grief that bit less of a burden to shoulder. "He was suffering from an imbalance of his inner-ear by the time he came up to play for Dundee," said his grandson. "There was something pressing down on his inner ear and the family believed it was a brain tumour that was never diagnosed.

"The result was that he kept falling down on the park, which didn't go down well with the Dundee fans. There were was a bit of barracking. That's how fans are. Hughie also suffered terribly from insomnia, so you can imagine how difficult things must have been for him."
For his wife, Jessie, it was unimaginably tough. She was pregnant with their third child, with little to console her barring the fact that her husband was still cherished in Motherwell and Cardiff. He still is, as his grandson proves with the occasional trip down to Ninian Park. "I travel a bit with my job as a salesman for a medical firm so whenever I'm in the area I'll give Cardiff a call and they look after me with a seat in the directors' box," he said. "They've sorted us out with final tickets and we're very grateful." Some say it is the least the club could do and it can only be hoped that Cardiff's first final since may help the Ferguson family at last gain some closure, however small, however irrelevant. Who knows, maybe the highs of that afternoon eight decades ago made the lows Ferguson was to suffer that much harder to bear and maybe Welsh football's finest hour did come at a terrible price? Football and the Fergusons will never know for sure.

"I often wonder what the poor man must have been going through," said Hugh Jnr. "He didn't live to see his children grow up, to see his youngest son, Jack, appear in two Olympics in water-polo. Of course, he wouldn't have been round to see Cardiff in the final again now but I'm sure he'll be watching. I know some people might say it's naff, but it'll be nice to think of him up there looking down with that black cat Trixie on his knee. That's surely what the FA Cup is all about."

Curse of the Cup final goalscorer Players who went into decline after hitting heights

Heard that story before but not read as much detail.

Great read but sad.

Dundee fans moaning.......never.

[shaded]

i mind an auld uncle o mine telling me about the suicide when i was a nipper,very early 70's somehow stuck in my head,mind o looking oot his windee in sandeman st over at the rhodedendrum bushies and then to the stand entrance