when will rafas plan start to work

[pboromag]

some armchairs seem to think that rafa is working to a plan
sorting the defence out blah de blah

some even think they are great tacticians and number threads from the kronikle

and try and tell us how the great rafa is working on the defencce
hence the dire negative footy

well isnt it about time it started to wrork
this great master plan that some think rafa has

im sure we have conceded in more games than we have kept a clean sheet
in fact from memory im sure we have only kept 2 maybe 3 clean sheets this season

yet again rafa was out thought by a young manager who doesnt get invited to best pals does and get voted in the top 10 influential managers awards

first half was 50 -50 second half they out thought us out witted us out played us and showed they could change as the game went on
under rafa

nothing


once they had worked us out they changed
at no point from then did rafa have the noce to get back on top

the boos at the ed of the game proved my point

are the match going fans turning ?????


the reason we have a negative goal differance is because we play negative footy
and we aint very good at doing that

[ghostrider]

I can't argue with any of that.
I know people will think it's a wind up but if Rafa carries this on I'm confident that many fans will simply turn.
The only thing Rafa has in his favour is the excuse that he didn't have the cash to spend. This is his get out of jail free card....but I'm not buying into it.

He bought attack minded players mostly and left out players that have potential to effect games in Mitro, etc.
Mitro might not be Aguero or the likes but he can win you games if played to his strengths.
Rafa doesn't do attacking strengths and in fact seems to clearly use attack as an after thought.


It's almost as if he played Gayle with Joselu as a sort of one fingered salute to the fans and pundits who's been calling him negative, as much as to say " tehre you go, look what attacking set ups get you."

Maybe he didn't but it frigging seems like he'd do that.

I honestly want him gone.

[pboromag]

he did have cash and he had top fizzy players and a fair few prem players from the season before and player brought for the prem

so i aint going with that excuse
he may not have had the cash the top 7-8 teams had but he had cash

he just wasted it

he phecked up getting rid of carr so quick

when he got rid of ashlys man ash cut him adrift and will let him sink

it wont be long before the fans turn and ash will have little smile at that

[Kal]

when he got rid of ashlys man ash cut him adrift and will let him sink

it wont be long before the fans turn and ash will have little smile at that



In what way would any of this be good for NUFC ?

[BenArfa10]

LOL we didn't put any of our 16 shots in the back of the net, we hit the post, had a goal ruled out for offside and lost 1-0. Our 2nd 1-0 loss in 2 games. We could have been 4-0 up in that first half!

Blame him for not playing Mitrovic and not sorting things out in 2nd half but anything else is just overkill. So we booed after losing at home; no big club in Europe has ever done that before LOL. Don't equate that to majority of SJP holding your views and wanting Rafa gone.

Can't believe you 2 want him gone.

[toptoon]

are the match going fans turning ?????


The ones that go the away games aren´t.

You spend half your time saying that our team, players and manager are sh*t and the other half complaining that we aren´t winning in style. For a frequent match goer, you don´t know much about football.

[toptoon]

I honestly want him gone.

....and there it is. XD

[Zippity]

are the match going fans turning ?????



No, we're not.

The boos-from those who did-I, for one, didn't- were on the final whistle and lasted...well, as long as it takes to say 'boooooo' XD It was an expression of frustration at how ****e we'd been in the second half; don't think you can read any more into it than that.

[ex_pat_magpie]

No, we're not.

The boos-from those who did-I, for one, didn't- were on the final whistle and lasted...well, as long as it takes to say 'boooooo' XD It was an expression of frustration at how ****e we'd been in the second half; don't think you can read any more into it than that.

But it's anti Rafa and anti the team so it's bound to be twisted to support the views of those "loyal" moaning dissenters. B)

[HughieG]

some armchairs seem to think that rafa is working to a plan
sorting the defence out blah de blah


It's working, mate. And you can't argue against it. We're 11th in the league and the aim is to not go down this season. So far it's working. End of.

[Cannylad]

If some people want Rafa gone then who would you like to replace him, pray tell ?
This club's mentality has changed 100% since he took over, fair enough, at times he has frustrated me by some of his set ups etc. but in no way would I want rid of him, just think back to some of the idiotic, inane furkin' chancer managers we have had in the not so distant past. Compared to them he is gold, long may he reign.

[toonlegend]

No, we're not.

The boos-from those who did-I, for one, didn't- were on the final whistle and lasted...well, as long as it takes to say 'boooooo' XD It was an expression of frustration at how ****e we'd been in the second half; don't think you can read any more into it than that.

personally i thought the boos were for the ref and linesmen

(the linesman for being crap and the ref for not being able to keep up - remember gave a yellow card for something he couldn't have seen because he was still 25 yards down the pitch trying to catch up)

[Zippity]

personally i thought the boos were for the ref and linesmen

(the linesman for being crap and the ref for not being able to keep up - remember gave a yellow card for something he couldn't have seen because he was still 25 yards down the pitch trying to catch up)

Oh, aye...there was a second set of boos reserved for when those ****ers went off.

Another shocking ref determined to prove he's not swayed by a big, partisan crowd by giving the opposition everything and an inept linesman too incompetent to do his job properly.

[kingstonbob]

Gayle's goal was incorrectly ruled offside and when he was hauled down when through on goal after they scored the ref waved play on. Inept officiating that massively affected the game. As for booing there were people round me who booed but they were the one offs not ST holders. When he is allowed to buy a proper striker and No 10 we will score more goals. It looks to me when Ritchie plays well so do the rest and when hes quiet it affects the rest?

Lets just muscle in and get Mourinho so we can win trophies, ffs his footballs dreadful for one of the supposed best managers.

[HughieG]

Oh, aye...there was a second set of boos reserved for when those ****ers went off.

Another shocking ref determined to prove he's not swayed by a big, partisan crowd by giving the opposition everything and an inept linesman too incompetent to do his job properly.

That was a tough call for the linesman, very hard to see. I think Gayle should've had the benefit of the doubt, but it was so close no human could have possible seen it in the moment.

In the studios, they've got all the right technology and can watch incidents from 11 different angles as much as they like - easy to blame a linesman then, isn't it. Until we provide the referees with some kind of technological aid, these incidents will keep occurring and it's not because a linesman is not doing his job properly.

[Zippity]

Someone sent a text during the game saying Defoe was offside for the shot that led to the corner they scored from. Anyone know if he was?

[kingstonbob]

Gayle's goal could have been sent up to the 4th official for the decision to be scrutinised 20 secs tops. Lets not forget Begovic was time wasting every goal kick (25/30 secs) without the ref doing anything so he would have still had plenty of time by his standards.

[Nufcian]

Amazing how some people had little to say when we were doing well, yet a couple of one nil defeats and they wanna play the “I told you so” card 😂

[pboromag]

Amazing how some people had little to say when we were doing well, yet a couple of one nil defeats and they wanna play the “I told you so” card ��

and some of us siad what a boring pilr of ****e it is under rafa

boring as pheck

even winning under him is like tooth ache

[michaelowen]

What the **** pboro and ghost? 2 defeats and you want him out? Its not like weve been schooled or ****ted 4 or 5 nil. ****ing get a grip. Oh and try to remember all the way back to our last few managers. Its no wonder people call our fans deluded when they hear these kind of mutterings from the fifth collumist few. Like i said, get a grip and put it into perspective.

[pboromag]

What the **** pboro and ghost? 2 defeats and you want him out? Its not like weve been schooled or ****ted 4 or 5 nil. ****ing get a grip. Oh and try to remember all the way back to our last few managers. Its no wonder people call our fans deluded when they hear these kind of mutterings from the fifth collumist few. Like i said, get a grip and put it into perspective.

it aint 2 defeats you clown its the way we are playing

some think rafa has started to sort the defence out (amazing what you read in the kronikle)

yet we have only kept 2 clean sheets under him this season maybe 3

weare getting beaten by the likes of huddersfield bournemaouth,brighton,etc

if rafa is so great when will his master pan start to work ???

if this was fat sam,houghton or any other manager we would be calling for a replacment

yet every idiot thinks rafa has a master plan

well if he does when will it start to kick in

wnen will we see a positive goal differance

when will we see positive footy
when will we be entertained

because under rafa we aint seen any of that

and in the past
that has been a definate requireent of any toon manager

[kingstonbob]

Well he played 2 up top and was more adventurous yesterday and it showed particularly in the first half hour. We scored, but it was wrongly called offside. It would have been a game changer as they clearly came for a point and would have had to open up more thus leaving gaps. Our forward options are limited. Yes he bought Murphy and in hindsight that £12 million should have gone with the £5 million spent on Joselu for a better quality striker, but if Ashley had given more money to strengthen then im sure we could be more expansive.

Tbh I wish we had kept Daryl Murphy. For the money we sold him for, in my opinion he would have been a better option than Mitro or Joselu as he would have been able to hold the ball up and wasn't afraid to have a shot.

[Zippity]

Not just saying it to argue against you but I've definitely been entertained at times this season. No, I agree, we're not set up to attack and at times it's definitely not good to watch.

But the picture is definitely not as bleak as you make out. There have been times when our slick one-touch passing has been the equal of anything we've seen over the years. There was a move that cut them open on their left yesterday and ended with Shelvey firing narrowly (ish :D ) over which wouldn't have looked out of place had it been Man City. Match of the Day highlighted some of our passing like this the other week with Martin Keown actually saying "remember, this isn't Man City we're watching".

Yes, I do think we're over-cautious at home but at the same time, Rafa is working with a limited squad who were playing Burton and Barnsley this time last season-we go too gung-ho and we'll get turned over big-style.

[Kal]

if rafa is so great when will his master pan start to work ???



When he gets the right ingredients for his paella. :D

[ghostrider]

What the **** pboro and ghost? 2 defeats and you want him out? Its not like weve been schooled or ****ted 4 or 5 nil. ****ing get a grip. Oh and try to remember all the way back to our last few managers. Its no wonder people call our fans deluded when they hear these kind of mutterings from the fifth collumist few. Like i said, get a grip and put it into perspective.

I used to spend an awful amount of time trying to push a positive from a mound of negatives once upon a short time ago.
I'm seeing far too many negatives for our manager to even bring myself to fight for a few positives, such is his mindset on this set up.

I shouldn't have to be grateful we're not getting beat 4 or 5 nothing and being happy with a 1 nothing defeat or a scraped draw or win that provides us with next to zero entertainment and many head scratching substitutions when trying to claw back a goal after going behind by spending the majority of the game defending like lunatics.

We all argue that our strikers are sub standard but I disagree.
they're not the best by any stretch but for me they're not even worked on to do the job of being a striker because we're set up as a ultra cautious unit 90% of the time.

If people want to suffer this type of football because they feel they don't want to hurt Rafa's feelings by letting him know it's mind numbingly boring and getting counter productive, then so be it but I know fans will only take so much more of this before they implode and explode onto Rafa and co.

I want rid of him but I'll sit back and hope he somehow changes his mindset on what he has available and how he sets us up.
I won't hold my breath and I'm fairly sure that the way he's got us playing will leave us in the mire.
I dread to think he gets hold of big cash to squander on better quality negativity that reaps the same results.

I'm getting beyond frustrated. I'm getting bored.

[ghostrider]

Not just saying it to argue against you but I've definitely been entertained at times this season. No, I agree, we're not set up to attack and at times it's definitely not good to watch.

But the picture is definitely not as bleak as you make out. There have been times when our slick one-touch passing has been the equal of anything we've seen over the years. There was a move that cut them open on their left yesterday and ended with Shelvey firing narrowly (ish :D ) over which wouldn't have looked out of place had it been Man City. Match of the Day highlighted some of our passing like this the other week with Martin Keown actually saying "remember, this isn't Man City we're watching".

Yes, I do think we're over-cautious at home but at the same time, Rafa is working with a limited squad who were playing Burton and Barnsley this time last season-we go too gung-ho and we'll get turned over big-style.

This is the issue.
We do have a team that's capable and although not at the top end, obviously...it is capable of being balanced out and giving us entertaining football with positive end results in many games and the obvious aris kickings in some.
It's what I ask for. To be entertained by this team that's clearly capable of which you highlighted in the slick passing at times and some decent end results that are just lacking a bit of extra edge.
Imagine if he set the team up to have a real go when necessary?

We just seem to go out and shout to the opposition " come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" from a defensive mindset whilst the opposition say " thanks, we'll keep trying to batter down your door, until we do."

What we should be doing is equally asking the same questions of their defence at every opportunity by working on that mindset in training.
It's clear that the attacking mindset is an after thought on that training pitch.

[Nufc204mag]

some armchairs seem to think that rafa is working to a plan
sorting the defence out blah de blah

some even think they are great tacticians and number threads from the kronikle

and try and tell us how the great rafa is working on the defencce
hence the dire negative footy

well isnt it about time it started to wrork
this great master plan that some think rafa has

im sure we have conceded in more games than we have kept a clean sheet
in fact from memory im sure we have only kept 2 maybe 3 clean sheets this season

yet again rafa was out thought by a young manager who doesnt get invited to best pals does and get voted in the top 10 influential managers awards

first half was 50 -50 second half they out thought us out witted us out played us and showed they could change as the game went on
under rafa

nothing


once they had worked us out they changed
at no point from then did rafa have the noce to get back on top

the boos at the ed of the game proved my point

are the match going fans turning ?????


the reason we have a negative goal differance is because we play negative footy
and we aint very good at doing that

Our defence has been solid we have conceded very little this season compared to when we had pardew where we would of conceded 4-5 goals in most defeats and we had a much better team then

[ghostrider]

Our defence has been solid we have conceded very little this season compared to when we had pardew where we would of conceded 4-5 goals in most defeats and we had a much better team then

It's been lucky if the truth be known.

[Zippity]

Tbh, Rafa's working with what he's got (the issue of why he's got what he's got is unhelpful to the discussion of what he's doing with them). I think with better attackers we'd do more attacking. I know that sounds obvious but Rafa will be more aware than any of us how poor Joselu and Perez are as an attacking force. He picks them but only because there's no-one else to fit his system. I don't for one second think he's under any illusions about how **** our £5 million 'striker' is.

As I say, the issue of why the team is short of attacking quality is moot...Rafa is working with what he has and attack is where we are weakest, hence that's the weakest part of our game.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Tbh, Rafa's working with what he's got (the issue of why he's got what he's got is unhelpful to the discussion of what he's doing with them). I think with better attackers we'd do more attacking. I know that sounds obvious but Rafa will be more aware than any of us how poor Joselu and Perez are as an attacking force. He picks them but only because there's no-one else to fit his system. I don't for one second think he's under any illusions about how **** our £5 million 'striker' is.

As I say, the issue of why the team is short of attacking quality is moot...Rafa is working with what he has and attack is where we are weakest, hence that's the weakest part of our game.

And it's as simple as you have stated it but the only people who are too dense see it are a couple on here and of course Ashley.

[ghostrider]

And it's as simple as you have stated it but the only people who are too dense see it are a couple on here and of course Ashley.

Let's see who's dense as time goes on, because not everyone has to share the same views. Some do have different ideas and takes on what they deem right , acceptable or wrong.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Let's see who's dense as time goes on, because not everyone has to share the same views. Some do have different ideas and takes on what they deem right , acceptable or wrong.

So you are saying you would exclude Ashley's shortcomings (to be polite) from one of the major reasons as to why Rafa hasn't been able to progress and build the squad.

[ghostrider]

So you are saying you would exclude Ashley's shortcomings (to be polite) from one of the major reasons as to why Rafa hasn't been able to progress and build the squad.

Ashley's to blame for a lot of things. We've been through this.
So now it's down to Rafa.
Rafa has control and apparently this was written in his contract....fair enough up to now?


Ok so Rafa buys who he buys and yet the entire set up he's created is none of his doing when it looks bad but is his genius when it looks good.
Fair enough up to now?


Any issues as regards defeats and slides down the table should be attributed to a NET spend this season and not to be used in conjunction with the huge spend last season, because that was needs must and cannot be used against him.
Still fair enough?


The negative football for 90% of the time is due to him not having the means to play any other way despite purchasing attack minded players and pacey one's at that, while also leaving out players that he doesn't trust or try to argue their case for playing, maybe.

He's a world class manager who we should be extremely grateful to have and we should be thankful he's picking our football team at all, no matter how he sets them up.


So what is it?
Does he have control or does he only have control when things go right and control is taken away when things go wrong?
Is he so loyal that he decides to stay on despite realising he has no control even though he spend many many weeks going over his contract to ensure it omitted nothing, it appears?

He needs to shape up and man up and sort this squad out to play some decent football for more than 30 minutes a month or he should pack up and leave it to someone who will.

[usedtobeshearer]

I can't argue with any of that.
I know people will think it's a wind up but if Rafa carries this on I'm confident that many fans will simply turn.
The only thing Rafa has in his favour is the excuse that he didn't have the cash to spend. This is his get out of jail free card....but I'm not buying into it.

He bought attack minded players mostly and left out players that have potential to effect games in Mitro, etc.
Mitro might not be Aguero or the likes but he can win you games if played to his strengths.
Rafa doesn't do attacking strengths and in fact seems to clearly use attack as an after thought.


It's almost as if he played Gayle with Joselu as a sort of one fingered salute to the fans and pundits who's been calling him negative, as much as to say " tehre you go, look what attacking set ups get you."

Maybe he didn't but it frigging seems like he'd do that.

I honestly want him gone.

This from a guy that stuck up for parsnip!

[ghostrider]

This from a guy that stuck up for parsnip!

We played football then.
We play the worst football I've seen at this club for a long long time.
Even Allardyce looked gungho compared to Rafa.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Ashley's to blame for a lot of things. We've been through this.
So now it's down to Rafa.
Rafa has control and apparently this was written in his contract....fair enough up to now?


Ok so Rafa buys who he buys and yet the entire set up he's created is none of his doing when it looks bad but is his genius when it looks good.
Fair enough up to now?


Any issues as regards defeats and slides down the table should be attributed to a NET spend this season and not to be used in conjunction with the huge spend last season, because that was needs must and cannot be used against him.
Still fair enough?


The negative football for 90% of the time is due to him not having the means to play any other way despite purchasing attack minded players and pacey one's at that, while also leaving out players that he doesn't trust or try to argue their case for playing, maybe.

He's a world class manager who we should be extremely grateful to have and we should be thankful he's picking our football team at all, no matter how he sets them up.


So what is it?
Does he have control or does he only have control when things go right and control is taken away when things go wrong?
Is he so loyal that he decides to stay on despite realising he has no control even though he spend many many weeks going over his contract to ensure it omitted nothing, it appears?

He needs to shape up and man up and sort this squad out to play some decent football for more than 30 minutes a month or he should pack up and leave it to someone who will.

How can it be down to Rafa when Ashley holds the purse strings and lies about what he will allow to be spent to almost every manager we have had.

[ghostrider]

How can it be down to Rafa when Ashley holds the purse strings and lies about what he will allow to be spent to almost every manager we have had.

How about you tell me what Rafa should have been allowed to buy in the summer right after promotion, other than what he bought and sold.

You tell me which buys were forced on him instead of the buys he was stopped from getting.
Do this in an honest way using what you know to be the truth from some source.

Because the way I see it is, we were and are in no position to barter for top end quality and if you think we are then tell me the ones Rafa could have got and at what price and wages.

12 million on Murphy. Why?
Future?
A tight owner who holds all the purse strings and Rafa pays 12 million for the future rather than addressing the now?
He has all summer to bring in a striker and decides on a Spanish Stoke substitute?

I could go on but I think the gist is there.
So none of it is down to Rafa and it's Ashley's fault we have those players, right?

Rafa is exempt from criticism because he's a world class manager and we really should be thankful whilst always remembering to blame Ashley when things don't go right.

Are you implying that Rafa signed a contract after scrutinising everything and having full control of all affairs football wise and what not but got screwed by Ashley when he asked for players?
And he decided this was the club for him under Ashley regardless of being lied to, because he feels a loyalty to the club or fans or whatever?

You know what. Sometimes when the pitch gets scuffed or the team play cack or it rains on the pitch, it's not always because Ashley planned it that way or hoped it would happen, just as it isn't when bad buys and refusal to play a decent system isn't Ashley's fault, either.

Mike Ashley has been a clown and a liar and a naive dipstick and many other things but the running of the club outside of his pocket is down to trusted people, of which many have repaid it in sin but this time he's left it in trust of others, plus Rafa and co, with Rafa on a 5 million a year contract iirc.... and you think it's nothing to do with Rafa that we're getting dealt this absolute garbage?


Defend him all you want to and all others can do so; it's your prerogative and mine is to call him out and want him out if he continues to dish this cack up.
All the man has to do is start dishing up the first 20 minutes of the Bournemouth attitude and build from that, because he's building nothing with his other nonsense other than discontent and another trip to the championship, or as close to it.


Soon enough some team is going to stick 8 past his so called impenetrable well organised so called super defense and it wouldn't surprise me if those gits do it next game. This is how low this man has got me.

I want him out and rather now that later when we are too far in trouble..

[HughieG]

How about you tell me what Rafa should have been allowed to buy in the summer right after promotion, other than what he bought and sold.

You tell me which buys were forced on him instead of the buys he was stopped from getting.
Do this in an honest way using what you know to be the truth from some source.

Because the way I see it is, we were and are in no position to barter for top end quality and if you think we are then tell me the ones Rafa could have got and at what price and wages.

12 million on Murphy. Why?
Future?
A tight owner who holds all the purse strings and Rafa pays 12 million for the future rather than addressing the now?
He has all summer to bring in a striker and decides on a Spanish Stoke substitute?

I could go on but I think the gist is there.
So none of it is down to Rafa and it's Ashley's fault we have those players, right?

Rafa is exempt from criticism because he's a world class manager and we really should be thankful whilst always remembering to blame Ashley when things don't go right.

Are you implying that Rafa signed a contract after scrutinising everything and having full control of all affairs football wise and what not but got screwed by Ashley when he asked for players?
And he decided this was the club for him under Ashley regardless of being lied to, because he feels a loyalty to the club or fans or whatever?

You know what. Sometimes when the pitch gets scuffed or the team play cack or it rains on the pitch, it's not always because Ashley planned it that way or hoped it would happen, just as it isn't when bad buys and refusal to play a decent system isn't Ashley's fault, either.

Mike Ashley has been a clown and a liar and a naive dipstick and many other things but the running of the club outside of his pocket is down to trusted people, of which many have repaid it in sin but this time he's left it in trust of others, plus Rafa and co, with Rafa on a 5 million a year contract iirc.... and you think it's nothing to do with Rafa that we're getting dealt this absolute garbage?


Defend him all you want to and all others can do so; it's your prerogative and mine is to call him out and want him out if he continues to dish this cack up.
All the man has to do is start dishing up the first 20 minutes of the Bournemouth attitude and build from that, because he's building nothing with his other nonsense other than discontent and another trip to the championship, or as close to it.


Soon enough some team is going to stick 8 past his so called impenetrable well organised so called super defense and it wouldn't surprise me if those gits do it next game. This is how low this man has got me.

I want him out and rather now that later when we are too far in trouble..

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable :P

[ghostrider]

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable :P

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

[HughieG]

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.

2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system. Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him. That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.

3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.

[ghostrider]

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.
The lowest we've been under Pardew ( not that I want him back, I'm just saying) is 12th in terms of end of season finishes.
He managed this with very little to spend and working with cheap imports.
He had us playing some decent football and although not entirely ideal, it was much better football than what we've been dished up since his departure.



2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system.
Torres and Gerard weren't playing in a negative team. It wasn't set out in any negative way. It was balanced.
They also had the quality for the fight, so he's not incapable of employing it and getting the best out of these players who have a lot more in their technical tank than is being allowed to be shown.
He's battering it out of them in favour of a slogger mentality.
It's making players look more like headless greyhounds and in some cases galloping Donkey's when most are way better than that.
Sometimes we see the slick passing and movement and a nice balance in small time frames, so we know it's there.



Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him.
It is good enough. It's just not confident enough to effect it in many games, but when they are, it shows up like a beacon and looks impressive.
I think Rafa's tactics are taking the edge off some of the players mindset to putting the opposition to the sword.




That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.
Yes I believe it's Rafa's fault....absolutely.
Take a look at all of his signings.
Ashley hasn't forced them on him. He's obviously in charge so it's all down to him.




3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.

He's only triumphed into boring the hell out of most fans.
I understand fans not wanting to upset the applecart and wanting a bit of shhhhh, let's be patient and try and keep Rafa who is world class because we might not get another like him.

Borlicks I say. I don't want any manager who's like him if this is what he serves up.

Let's see what happens when we play Man Utd at old trafford, because I think the Bournemouth game has effected a slide that is going to takes one hell of a set of brakes to arrest and end up with us getting a massive tonking.
I sincerely hope I get proved wrong on this, I really really do and this is never like me to go on like this but this bloke has tipped me over the edge.

[Cannylad]

Some posters on here who seem to be after Rafa's blood all the time never say who they want to replace him with. F*ck me, it's so easy to harp on and on with criticism all the time without saying how to remedy the situation. C'mon now you f*ckers', stop pointing fingers and grow a pair, tell us who you want to replace him with ! :zzz:

[ghostrider]

Some posters on here who seem to be after Rafa's blood all the time never say who they want to replace him with. F*ck me, it's so easy to harp on and on with criticism all the time without saying how to remedy the situation. C'mon now you f*ckers', stop pointing fingers and grow a pair, tell us who you want to replace him with ! :zzz:

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

[Jammy89]

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

Hi Pboro . . . . Oh wait.

So you have no names then? Just the Rafa is wrong and must go.

He's not beyond criticism and has been criticised by several posters, it's just they acknowledge the positive aspects of what he's doing as well, also acknowledge that his hands were tied in summer.

[ghostrider]

Hi Pboro . . . . Oh wait.

So you have no names then? Just the Rafa is wrong and must go.

He's not beyond criticism and has been criticised by several posters, it's just they acknowledge the positive aspects of what he's doing as well, also acknowledge that his hands were tied in summer.

His hands weren't tied. He couldn't get his targets over the line and settled for other avenues.
I also acknowledged the positive aspects of his tenure right from him taking us down all through the championship and for a decent portion of the lead up to this season, plus half way through the games as of now, before I started to get a bit down beaten.

I can easily be swayed back towards Rafa if he starts to do what he did against Bournemouth when up against teams that beg for us to have a go, plus for him to change it up when necessary in the right way, not like he did against Bournemouth in the second half.

You see, I can easily be swayed by him having the ability to give us some football to watch and a team mindset to not only stop the opposition but to ask questions of it at every available opportunity.

He's not doing that and I'm peed off at it.
We had a great chance to put some real daylight between us and the bottom 3 and we've blew it with a handful of games that begged for points gains.

I'm not buying into his held back stance, because I'm not expecting him to do anything other than ensure we beat relegation but by doing it with a team that gives us a large portion of decent football and we aren't getting it.

If this was most other managers doing this the crowd would be up in arms...especially when you think Rafa has been here nearly two seasons. It's not like he's just came in to effect change.

[Cannylad]

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

Still waiting to hear who you'd replace him with at the present time Ghostboro ??
I hear Carver, Pardew and 'Arry are all available, maybe Moyse when he finishes his part time job at WH :s

[HughieG]

The lowest we've been under Pardew ( not that I want him back, I'm just saying) is 12th in terms of end of season finishes.

Wrong. We finished 16th under Pardew the season after having finished 5th. For some reason people, such as the pundits, forget about that season, and tend to go on about how he almost took us into the top 4, and how we should worship him for that and how we gave him way too much stick and haunted him out of this club.

Now I do think that Pardew got more hate than he deserved because he worked under restrained conditions, but he certainly wasn't a god-send like the "experts" would have you believe.

Anyway, I think some of the points you're making are decent Ghost, but overall we disagree strongly and it's mainly the lack of patience that worries me with fans like yourself I have to say.

[pboromag]

i love it when posters who cant answer my question then attack posters for their views

no one has or can answer when will rfas defensive training pay off

he has most of the defenders for a couple of seasons now

he hasnt worked out playing shelvey in the middle negates his back 4 defending

we have a negative goal tally as we cant defend and cant score
all down to rafa

rfa brought in most of the back 4 we currently have they are his men

he has brought most of our creative players in


people keep saying he has fizzy players but he doesnt

the playe rs he picks most were brought and are prem players
lascelles shelvey perez mbemba atsu colback merino ritchie gayle mitro,joselwho murphy the goalies apart from freddy

so he has no excuse and most he has had two seasons to improve and get playing his way

apart from lascelles he hasnt improved one player
most are going backwards
and those wanting to play and fightt he wont give a game to

look at the four 5 he brought in this season
he eithe doesnt play or they are going backwards with maybe the lad in the middle being an exception

so when will his master plan come good

when will he sort the defending out and start on the striking and creativity

[ghostrider]

Still waiting to hear who you'd replace him with at the present time Ghostboro ??
I hear Carver, Pardew and 'Arry are all available, maybe Moyse when he finishes his part time job at WH :s I'd take Koeman in a heart beat.

[ghostrider]

Wrong. We finished 16th under Pardew the season after having finished 5th. For some reason people, such as the pundits, forget about that season, and tend to go on about how he almost took us into the top 4, and how we should worship him for that and how we gave him way too much stick and haunted him out of this club.

Now I do think that Pardew got more hate than he deserved because he worked under restrained conditions, but he certainly wasn't a god-send like the "experts" would have you believe.

Anyway, I think some of the points you're making are decent Ghost, but overall we disagree strongly and it's mainly the lack of patience that worries me with fans like yourself I have to say.

I'll tell you why I'm lacking patience, when normally I've been ultra patient in the past.
It's because I am starting to see some of the worst football I've seen for a long long time from players that are capable of offering much more. And that's down to the manager and coaches he instructs to set them up.

I also get bad vibes from Rafa and see him as a dummy spitting manager within the club, with players who maybe have questions for him. You know, stuff like " hey boss, I'm fit and working hard and biting at the bit, when do I get into team."
I think Rafa takes stuff like that as a personal dig rather than seeing a hungry player.
Ok I might have embellished that a little bit but I think you can see what I'm saying.

One manager I didn't like was McClaren. I accepted him because I hoped he would magically do something for us with the players he had. His smug smirks sealed his fate on top of his excuses for us not winning.

Rafa gives me the opposite feeling of dislike , because in Rafa I'm looking at him in a more cold sense. I don't get any real good vibes from him.
I feel like he's someone that's stood in his garden with his ball and telling all who wait outside to play, " you'll play how I want or I won't bring my ball out." Whilst the players are all thinking, " ahhh let's just get on with it, even though we hate playing like this."


I don't think it's just me that'll be losing patience. I honestly think that the players will start to revolt. I think you'll start to see the harmony become disharmony as it will show on that pitch.
No football player wants to be stifled or made to constantly play chicken chasing for most of a game. They want to show what they're capable off and Rafa is stifling that from just about all of them.


I don't see how fans can defend him on this. It's misery.
I'm just moaning on and on, I know that but all I can see from this point on is more misery and then everything will turn nasty because of it and he will be hounded out or he'll walk out when he realises he's lost the fans and his squad.

Over the top?
I hope I am, I really do, because I'd hate to say I told you so.
I'd much prefer getting to the end of the season after doing much better and people telling me that I'm a pratt for being so doubtful and impatient.
I just don't see it though.

Moan over.

[HughieG]

I'll tell you why I'm lacking patience, when normally I've been ultra patient in the past.
It's because I am starting to see some of the worst football I've seen for a long long time from players that are capable of offering much more. And that's down to the manager and coaches he instructs to set them up.

I also get bad vibes from Rafa and see him as a dummy spitting manager within the club, with players who maybe have questions for him. You know, stuff like " hey boss, I'm fit and working hard and biting at the bit, when do I get into team."
I think Rafa takes stuff like that as a personal dig rather than seeing a hungry player.
Ok I might have embellished that a little bit but I think you can see what I'm saying.

One manager I didn't like was McClaren. I accepted him because I hoped he would magically do something for us with the players he had. His smug smirks sealed his fate on top of his excuses for us not winning.

Rafa gives me the opposite feeling of dislike , because in Rafa I'm looking at him in a more cold sense. I don't get any real good vibes from him.
I feel like he's someone that's stood in his garden with his ball and telling all who wait outside to play, " you'll play how I want or I won't bring my ball out." Whilst the players are all thinking, " ahhh let's just get on with it, even though we hate playing like this."


I don't think it's just me that'll be losing patience. I honestly think that the players will start to revolt. I think you'll start to see the harmony become disharmony as it will show on that pitch.
No football player wants to be stifled or made to constantly play chicken chasing for most of a game. They want to show what they're capable off and Rafa is stifling that from just about all of them.


I don't see how fans can defend him on this. It's misery.
I'm just moaning on and on, I know that but all I can see from this point on is more misery and then everything will turn nasty because of it and he will be hounded out or he'll walk out when he realises he's lost the fans and his squad.

Over the top?
I hope I am, I really do, because I'd hate to say I told you so.
I'd much prefer getting to the end of the season after doing much better and people telling me that I'm a pratt for being so doubtful and impatient.
I just don't see it though.

Moan over.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're moaning. You're presenting your views, some of which in my opinion are quite right and fair, and we're debating them. That's how it should be.

This whole 'he'll start losing games and the fans will turn on him' - isn't that what happens at every club once the manager starts losing games? And it's happening at a faster and faster pace in the Premier League. That's nothing special for Rafa (that's if he starts losing all the time, which I doubt will happen). The difference between Rafa and McClaren is that Rafa has not lost a lot of games in a row during his time here. Here's to hoping he won't in the future.

[pboromag]

i think ghost is right we have players more than capable of playing entertaining footy and attacking

but under rafa slowly their attacking skills are being drawn back and they are being turned into drones intent on defending

i dont see why anyone would defend a manager who ever he is who is producing the footy we are currently

surely that is double standards when we have had goes at managers in the past for not entertaining us

im not having a go as we are loosing
i have been having a go even when we are winning
it is the style of which we win or loose

[ghostrider]

For what it's worth, I don't think you're moaning. You're presenting your views, some of which in my opinion are quite right and fair, and we're debating them. That's how it should be.

This whole 'he'll start losing games and the fans will turn on him' - isn't that what happens at every club once the manager starts losing games? And it's happening at a faster and faster pace in the Premier League. That's nothing special for Rafa (that's if he starts losing all the time, which I doubt will happen). The difference between Rafa and McClaren is that Rafa has not lost a lot of games in a row during his time here. Here's to hoping he won't in the future.I absolutely agree.
The game is definitely becoming more expectant and I'm not any different in thought as of late, whereas I would have been more than happy to endure it as it is and keep shouting " I trust in Rafa" but the thing is I get a horrible feeling about it all, seriously.

I think Tony Pulis brought it up about fans getting over expectant when things go well and he's correct in that sense but I'm not even asking for that, although I am maybe jumping the gun a little bit on Rafa's sacking. All I'm asking for is a team that gives us something positive to talk about after each match in terms of entertainment, without us having to scrape the barrel for positives.

I'd even be more than happy with a 17th finish and escaping relegation by a point if it meant looking at the season and thinking we tried with what we had in terms of trying to score goals as well as keep them out but gave a good proportion of entertainment in the process.

I'd be well devastated if we do likewise by playing the cack that's been served up for most of the season.