We have no long term plan.

[Pocket rocket]

The club doesn’t still have a long term plan.

TS said that he wanted to look at a longer term model developing young players and selling them in for a profit similar to the Barnsley model.

Well to do that takes bravery from the management team. There’s none of that if a player has a bad game then they’re out.

Rodak on loan how is this a long term signing ?

Wood how is this a long term thinking decision?

Ajayi looked good when he came he looks like he’s been coached to be worse then dropped for most games. Again 1 bad game and he’s out.

Purrington his confidence must be shot to **** dropped for someone who is average at best.

Bray what’s happened to him ?

Newell looks half the player he was.

Up front David Ball why sign him if we’re not going to play to his strengths ? He was a good player before he came to us but looks poor now that can’t be just a coincidence. Yes he’s been injured but a lot of the passes bypass him.

JCH why get him to sign another contract ?

Brin mentioned on another thread about MK Dons bravery for developing their home grown academy players when do we do that ?

TS vision was all good and proper but he has a manager who looks lost tbh.
Warne needed a really experienced assistant with him not his pals who could help him.

We don’t have a plan as a club yes trying to win games at any club is obviously important but nothing has changed from last year apart from most of the opposition is easier to play against.

Are we looking at longer term or just plodding on week by week ?

Next week could get ugly for the Management team if we lose again. Already people having a go yesterday and it’s only going to get worse.

UTM

[Yak]

It’s not just that though is it?
Supporters aren’t willing to give the young ones time they are instantly judged and then that’s it.

Maybe it’s a bigger problem with the whole club?

[kempo]

A very good post pocket.

Developing youth is an interesting one.

Doing this correctly is a speculate to accumulate situation ie significant investment is needed in infrastructure set up,increase in better coaching staff and so on.

A couple of huts at the training ground does not represent significant investment.

But yes,a very good post rocket

[Silly-miller]

Pocket we do have a long term plan but it’s not working lol

[kempo]

In the long term we are all dead so plans should always be short or medium term.

[Casper64Frank]

Pocket, MK Dons had a helping hand financially when they sold Dele Alli to Spurs for £5M.
Some of that cash was used on their Academy set up.
We are nowhere near that situation and nowhere near the Academy we had in the mid 70's.

Very easy spending someone else's cash.

EDIT : Good post Pocket....did your nipper help you write it lol..

[Pocket rocket]

Lol Casper yeah I’m nearly on joined up writing now😆.

Agree with you about the money situation.
Look at the players we have though it just doesn’t look from the outside like the young uns if that’s what you call them are been given time.

I also think that Warne is stuck with playing them for the long term because TS came out and said he expects the play offs which doesn’t necessarily fit the model we’re trying to work to.

UTM

[millertop]

Is that down to TS or Warney though?

[Pocket rocket]

A stronger manager with more experience would probably do what he wanted but Warne loves the club and probably wants to please everyone.

UTM

[tony260674]

If we are going to go down that route (and I favour it) then we must not overreact to every mistake that these young players make by dropping them from the team. One of my friends who support Barnsley suggests that the supporters have seen these young players come through, make mistakes, keep their place and improve before moving on for huge fees and are now educated to see the mistakes of their long players as a learning experience. They don't get dropped and the fans don't get on their backs. For me we should have played Ajayi and Purrington week in, week out. They will make mistakes this season, then less next season with a full years experience behind them. They then become mainstays to build the team around or the move on for big fees. You do need some experienced players around them but that is a long term plan.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

No long term plan?

I'm not convinced we have a short term plan either.

When you look at our coaching set up it's very limited. Both manager and assistant manager are ex forwards so no real experience of defending, an area which is painfully wrong.

As for Warne's much reported fitness regime, running up Austrian mountains etc it's surprising how many players are carrying excess "timber". Look at JCH and Emmanuel for example, thighs like giant redwoods, and painfully losing pace as a consequence. Jerry Yates is turning into a suffler, D Ball has lost what pace he had, Frecks is as injury prone as ever (maybe more so now).

As for Pollitt coaching keepers, well maybe he has bad stock to work with but chop and change isn't helping. Remember also that Pollitt had more clubs than Jack Nicklaus so quite a few managers had in the past found him a bit wanting. There was a time when he was a flapper when it came to crosses and he had his best spell with us when McIntosh and Swailes were in front of him which tells you a lot.

I still think we need a major overhaul of coaching staff before TS wastes any more money on player transfers.

[tom12026]

I have decided to put my 2 pennyworth in-We have some players who are not too bad but nobody really special.For myself I go to the games to enjoy the day and to a certain extent the actual match is a by-product.I go hoping for a good result but I don,t kick the cat if we lose (yet again).It,s all a bit deja vue all over again to be honest.I do smile when I think about top teams like Liverpool who spend more on directors sandwiches than we do on players yet get whopped by Spurs,Man City etc.Spurs then lose to Man U. .What I am trying to say is I try not to get too up if we win or to down WHEN we lose.Enjoy the weekend-it,s another one you will not live through again.

[animallittle3]

I can't believe you guy's missed Stephan Payne who we let go in the summer , scoring for fun at Shrewsbury and right under your noses .

I'm not best pleased we let the lad go at all to be honest .

[gwru]

Pocket I'm like you I'm not a wordsmith. I just put it as I see it. Summer transfer window. We've ended up without a reliable keeper. No Right back or another Centre back apart from Ihiemke good enough. Left back we're unlucky to have Mattock banned & Purrington injured. No cover for Potter & no Left winger. Up front only Moore good enough unless we get JCH back to match sharpness. Whose fault is that. Head of recruitment, Warney? For me head of recruitment can put players to the manager but it's up to the manager to research the player being good enough, right for the club + fitness levels. Somebody tell me if I've got it wrong.

[kempo]

Spot on gwru..

It's unfortunate that these young replacements that you suggest are far worse than the players we have.

We are years and years away from bringing our own youth through as we have no infrastructure and we deal in peanuts.

To get a promising young player now you not only have to offer a significant amount of cash but grease the palms of immediate family members not to mention a house.

You also need way way better infrastructure as I have said ad nauseum.

We are a million miles away from developing players to even L1 standard.

[flourbasher]

I don't think it's feasible to develop players from youngsters because there are clubs who are already a lot better and more established at it than us.
Our best bet is to pick up younger players of say 19-20 yrs who have been discarded by other clubs and give them a chance to blossom.
They might be really good players but don't fit the ambitions of the club who let them go.
We would need a really good coaching set up though

[Yak]

I think that’s the point flourbasher even when we get someone with potential we seem to ruin it tbh.

We don’t develop players or improve them.

[PeteWaller]

Said it time and time again. We need the Academy for a sustainable future. It needs big sums to do it properly but nothing compared to waste of wages spent on players in our recent past.
But it needs to be an academy which should be the envy of L1. Nutrition. Sports Science people as well as physios and the like. Video rooms for teaching technique and playing pitches inside as well as out for all year training in warm conditions. Multiple machines for stamina building, core development, cardio.

Until we can see our way to doing this then L1 it will be. On top of that, we might like to set up a network of scouts (us fans) who may watch local football. They could observe regularly and when they themselves feel confident, make a recommendation to a Scouting Committee who would then follow it up. If they are happy, the next stage would involve the club manager etc. Costs minimal. Football fans I’m sure would recognise talent. Put enough in the net and let the club funnel the talent out and develop it.

From what I understand, old fashioned scouting had its day years ago. Bring it back, what would the club lose? Plenty of local talent missed by the big clubs that would be suitable for us. Miss out the really young ones and concentrate on those about 15 or 16. Put them through the high tech academy full of different types of coaches and develop them into saleable assets for the club. In the meantime have a string of good quality young players coming through who have the clubs interests at heart as well as their own. Team spirit in a set up like this would be immense.

Sponsor that TS !

Good post Pocket. Good to see you back again.

[mellowmiller]

I don't think it's feasible to develop players from youngsters because there are clubs who are already a lot better and more established at it than us.
Our best bet is to pick up younger players of say 19-20 yrs who have been discarded by other clubs and give them a chance to blossom.
They might be really good players but don't fit the ambitions of the club who let them go.
We would need a really good coaching set up though

I agree with this, there are plenty of young players out there who are just looking for an opportunity to prove themselves.
In my opinion our academy set up is way off the pace anyway and we will be lucky to bring any youngsters through who will make the grade.
My grandson was taken into the Rotherham youth development set up while his best mate went to Barnsley. I have watched several training sessions at each club and the difference is like chalk and cheese.
The Rotherham sessions are predictable, repetitive and boring whereas the Barnsley sessions are much more innovative and enjoyable.
The Barnsley set up is light years ahead of ours and their success in bringing young players through will continue to be way ahead of ours unless our club is prepared to invest in a more professional organisation.
I think that is unlikely to happen but, in any case, it would probably be preferable to go for a more focused approach by those responsible for recruitment with the aim of unearthing a few young rough diamonds who just need a bit of polishing.
Other clubs, Peterborough for example, do this very successfully so it is obviously a realistic strategy and one that we should invest in.

[Pocket rocket]

Said it time and time again. We need the Academy for a sustainable future. It needs big sums to do it properly but nothing compared to waste of wages spent on players in our recent past.
But it needs to be an academy which should be the envy of L1. Nutrition. Sports Science people as well as physios and the like. Video rooms for teaching technique and playing pitches inside as well as out for all year training in warm conditions. Multiple machines for stamina building, core development, cardio.

Until we can see our way to doing this then L1 it will be. On top of that, we might like to set up a network of scouts (us fans) who may watch local football. They could observe regularly and when they themselves feel confident, make a recommendation to a Scouting Committee who would then follow it up. If they are happy, the next stage would involve the club manager etc. Costs minimal. Football fans I’m sure would recognise talent. Put enough in the net and let the club funnel the talent out and develop it.

From what I understand, old fashioned scouting had its day years ago. Bring it back, what would the club lose? Plenty of local talent missed by the big clubs that would be suitable for us. Miss out the really young ones and concentrate on those about 15 or 16. Put them through the high tech academy full of different types of coaches and develop them into saleable assets for the club. In the meantime have a string of good quality young players coming through who have the clubs interests at heart as well as their own. Team spirit in a set up like this would be immense.

Sponsor that TS !

Good post Pocket. Good to see you back again.

Cheers Pete pal hope you and the family are keeping well ?

Cracking post mate.

Bloody hard work at time following the millers.

[Pocket rocket]

I agree with this, there are plenty of young players out there who are just looking for an opportunity to prove themselves.
In my opinion our academy set up is way off the pace anyway and we will be lucky to bring any youngsters through who will make the grade.
My grandson was taken into the Rotherham youth development set up while his best mate went to Barnsley. I have watched several training sessions at each club and the difference is like chalk and cheese.
The Rotherham sessions are predictable, repetitive and boring whereas the Barnsley sessions are much more innovative and enjoyable.
The Barnsley set up is light years ahead of ours and their success in bringing young players through will continue to be way ahead of ours unless our club is prepared to invest in a more professional organisation.
I think that is unlikely to happen but, in any case, it would probably be preferable to go for a more focused approach by those responsible for recruitment with the aim of unearthing a few young rough diamonds who just need a bit of polishing.
Other clubs, Peterborough for example, do this very successfully so it is obviously a realistic strategy and one that we should invest in.

Yep think your on to something there mellow.

[Casper64Frank]

Mark Burton ex Barnsley Academy was recently appointed as Head of Academy at our club. Not 100% sure but he was supposed to be in charge when John Stones, Mason Holgate and Bree came through the academy. Perhaps the Barnsley lads that come on here can confirm or refute that info.

[Casper64Frank]

PeteWaller, most of the things you mentioned in your earlier post the club are already operating that way. They've very recently advertised for Academy scouts, you've missed the boat Pete.
Some of our young lads don't live local, I think Bailey-King is originally from the London area, others have been on the books at other clubs.

Good to see you back Pete, do hope your beloved is washing, cleaning, polishing and looking after that Porche of yours.

[kentmillerman]

Said it time and time again. We need the Academy for a sustainable future. It needs big sums to do it properly but nothing compared to waste of wages spent on players in our recent past.
But it needs to be an academy which should be the envy of L1. Nutrition. Sports Science people as well as physios and the like. Video rooms for teaching technique and playing pitches inside as well as out for all year training in warm conditions. Multiple machines for stamina building, core development, cardio.

Until we can see our way to doing this then L1 it will be. On top of that, we might like to set up a network of scouts (us fans) who may watch local football. They could observe regularly and when they themselves feel confident, make a recommendation to a Scouting Committee who would then follow it up. If they are happy, the next stage would involve the club manager etc. Costs minimal. Football fans I’m sure would recognise talent. Put enough in the net and let the club funnel the talent out and develop it.

From what I understand, old fashioned scouting had its day years ago. Bring it back, what would the club lose? Plenty of local talent missed by the big clubs that would be suitable for us. Miss out the really young ones and concentrate on those about 15 or 16. Put them through the high tech academy full of different types of coaches and develop them into saleable assets for the club. In the meantime have a string of good quality young players coming through who have the clubs interests at heart as well as their own. Team spirit in a set up like this would be immense.

Sponsor that TS !

Good post Pocket. Good to see you back again.

Absolute great post Pete, thanks. Really like the academy reference. For the love of our club, hope it can really go forward. Although ......> long term :(

[animallittle3]

Mark Burton ex Barnsley Academy was recently appointed as Head of Academy at our club. Not 100% sure but he was supposed to be in charge when John Stones, Mason Holgate and Bree came through the academy. Perhaps the Barnsley lads that come on here can confirm or refute that info.

Yes he was involved in the development of all three of those lads frank .

There's plenty of talent at the clubs academy right now which he is responsible for , the midfield lad Bird is a very good prospect I hear and he's made a couple of appearances this season already .

Once the takeover is completed we hear the academy will be upgraded to the top rating and hopefully we will see a few more coming through .


You have to remember the academy , indoor complex and training grounds were paid for out of our sky tv PL bounty in 1998 and it cost millions then .

It's not a cheap project either , it's well over a million quid a year to run the academy and you need it to produce or they get shut down like Huddersfield recently did despite their PL bounty .

Not as straight forward as it sounds getting a productive academy going .