O/T Question Time

[countygump]

Anyone see it last nate? Reason I ask is cos Mansfield's very own Carolyn Radford was a guest. "The country needs to pull together and the Gov needs to get this sorted". Seemed to be her stock answer, studied politics at Durham Uni, my ar5e.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

She got an absolute roasting on Twitter from the general public. She said she voted leave but relies on EU trade for her business and everyone was saying she's going to pull Mansfailed out of the football league 😂

[sidders]

Didn't pull up any trees, did she? What on earth were the programme's researchers playing at to recruit such a nondescript panellist.

[Elite_Pie]

The six-fingered ones were a bit more complimentary to her before the programme than after:

http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34016

I turned off after her first offering - she voted to leave but has now realised that trade will be more difficult if we do!!!! I am convinced that Brexit is the biggest farce in British political history. No-one knew what they were actually voting for (ie what leaving really means), and cast their vote based on a pack of lies from both sides. Our future is left with a hopelessly divided government where many of the major players are more concerned about their future careers than sorting an exit deal. The opposition parties are more concerned with winning the next election than sorting an exit deal. A complete and utter shambles.

I know the EU was far from perfect, but they weren't as bad as this lot.

[dam617]

The six-fingered ones were a bit more complimentary to her before the programme than after:

http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34016

I turned off after her first offering - she voted to leave but has now realised that trade will be more difficult if we do!!!! I am convinced that Brexit is the biggest farce in British political history. No-one knew what they were actually voting for (ie what leaving really means), and cast their vote based on a pack of lies from both sides. Our future is left with a hopelessly divided government where many of the major players are more concerned about their future careers than sorting an exit deal. The opposition parties are more concerned with winning the next election than sorting an exit deal. A complete and utter shambles.

I know the EU was far from perfect, but they weren't as bad as this lot.

When we end up remaining I'm going to email Mark Spencer and remind him of a famous Monty Python sketch involving a Norwegian Blue.
I'd suggest he start looking for a new job.

[Notsohumblepie]

Didn't pull up any trees, did she? What on earth were the programme's researchers playing at to recruit such a nondescript panellist.

Probably too busy recruiting a " balanced" audience

[sidders]

The six-fingered ones were a bit more complimentary to her before the programme than after:

http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34016

I turned off after her first offering - she voted to leave but has now realised that trade will be more difficult if we do!!!! I am convinced that Brexit is the biggest farce in British political history. No-one knew what they were actually voting for (ie what leaving really means), and cast their vote based on a pack of lies from both sides. Our future is left with a hopelessly divided government where many of the major players are more concerned about their future careers than sorting an exit deal. The opposition parties are more concerned with winning the next election than sorting an exit deal. A complete and utter shambles.

I know the EU was far from perfect, but they weren't as bad as this lot.

I am now going to rock your world, Elite. I agree with every word you've written in this post. We are of one mind and I bet you haven't often been told that on here.

[SwalePie]

I am convinced that Brexit is the biggest farce in British political history. No-one knew what they were actually voting for (ie what leaving really means), and cast their vote based on a pack of lies from both sides. Our future is left with a hopelessly divided government where many of the major players are more concerned about their future careers than sorting an exit deal. The opposition parties are more concerned with winning the next election than sorting an exit deal. A complete and utter shambles.

I know the EU was far from perfect, but they weren't as bad as this lot.

My goodness. I actually agree with you 100%. This is so much bigger than pathetic and transparent career or party politics. So sad if the result is not followed up with an 'are you really, really, really sure' second referendum but I fear it won't happen.

[Trickytreesreds]

My goodness. I actually agree with you 100%. This is so much bigger than pathetic and transparent career or party politics. So sad if the result is not followed up with an 'are you really, really, really sure' second referendum but I fear it won't happen.

Is this an EU measured "are you really, really sure" referendum result?

You know, the ones the Irish/Dutch/Danes had thrown back at them, until you vote the way we want you to?

[Airborn Pie]

Is this an EU measured "are you really, really sure" referendum result?

You know, the ones the Irish/Dutch/Danes had thrown back at them, until you vote the way we want you to?

I think that's a gimme

[Notsohumblepie]

My goodness. I actually agree with you 100%. This is so much bigger than pathetic and transparent career or party politics. So sad if the result is not followed up with an 'are you really, really, really sure' second referendum but I fear it won't happen.

Are you seriously suggesting that we go back to Europe, and say “I’m sorry we made a mistake “?

We’d be stripped like a corpse on a battlefield. The first thing to go would be the rebate , and then a number of historical “ scores” would be settled with Gallic gusto . The EU would punish us with barely disguised relish “ pour encourager les autres”

If you think the country’s polarised now, you’d have a de-facto civil war on your hands.

[Trickytreesreds]

Are you seriously suggesting that we go back to Europe, and say “I’m sorry we made a mistake “?

We’d be stripped like a corpse on a battlefield. The first thing to go would be the rebate , and then a number of historical “ scores” would be settled with Gallic gusto . The EU would punish us with barely disguised relish “ pour encourager les autres”

If you think the country’s polarised now, you’d have a de-facto civil war on your hands.

They'd want us in schengen and the single currency.
After all, that is what the project is all about. One united states of Europe.
https://www.rt.com/news/428456-szijjarto-hungary-soros-eu/

To have that, you have to have law/currency/policy under one control.
We and everyone else has had free trade hijacked by this pirate collective. Either comply, or we'll hurt your pocket.

We have to be brave and see it through. Others will follow, they need a push.

[LaughingMagpie]

We did know what we were voting for. We voted to leave the single market and the customs union. The problem lies with the politicians (charged with ensuring Brexit happens) dilly dallying and sucking up to the EU because their heart isn't in it. We need to be strong and come from a position of strength. Not bickering and in fighting. That only fuels remoaners like Anna Sourbitch and encourages people like Merkel.

[macse15]

We did know what we were voting for. We voted to leave the single market and the customs union. The problem lies with the politicians (charged with ensuring Brexit happens) dilly dallying and sucking up to the EU because their heart isn't in it. We need to be strong and come from a position of strength. Not bickering and in fighting. That only fuels remoaners like Anna Sourbitch and encourages people like Merkel.

I don't recall leaving the SM and CU being mentioned on the ballot paper. In fact I distinctly recall in the run-up some Brex****eers saying that would not happen. And they wouldn't lie would they?

[Elite_Pie]

We need to be strong and come from a position of strength. Not bickering and in fighting.

Maybe true in an ideal world, but it must be apparent to even the most fervent Brexiteers that we don't have a position of strength.
What we have is plenty of bickering and in fighting from a government who just don't know what to do next.

[dam617]

I don't recall leaving the SM and CU being mentioned on the ballot paper. In fact I distinctly recall in the run-up some Brex****eers saying that would not happen. And they wouldn't lie would they?
No it didn't.
It did on the remain propaganda sent to every address in Britain, printed with taxpayers money.
Read the leaflet, make your mind up and go to the polling station.
How many times have you voted in a General Election and next to the candidates name are their political views and aims? None.
Will you see any in the future? No.
This 'what wasn't on the ballot paper' has been laughable and desperate since it first appeared.
Across the pond another bunch of crybaby losers are still throwing toys around too. They are actually harassing people and breaking up meetings.
History has a name for these people.

[crazyfists]

The six-fingered ones were a bit more complimentary to her before the programme than after:

http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34016

I turned off after her first offering - she voted to leave but has now realised that trade will be more difficult if we do!!!! I am convinced that Brexit is the biggest farce in British political history. No-one knew what they were actually voting for (ie what leaving really means), and cast their vote based on a pack of lies from both sides. Our future is left with a hopelessly divided government where many of the major players are more concerned about their future careers than sorting an exit deal. The opposition parties are more concerned with winning the next election than sorting an exit deal. A complete and utter shambles.

I know the EU was far from perfect, but they weren't as bad as this lot.

Is the correct answer. It's a monumental foul up of the highest order. No one in the leave campaign thought they'd win, they were just furthering their career and lining their pockets. Then when they did win no one had and still has a clue what to do about it. An absolute joke.

[MagpieTony]

Is the correct answer. It's a monumental foul up of the highest order. No one in the leave campaign thought they'd win, they were just furthering their career and lining their pockets. Then when they did win no one had and still has a clue what to do about it. An absolute joke.

I would counter that argument with the fact that those who wanted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for and how to go about it. The problem has been that the process has been overseen and controlled by those who voted remain and they have never reconciled themselves to the result of the referendum. Consequently, there has been a plethora of obfuscation, incoherence and indecision. I do not think that May could have done a worse job which to me shows that she is either completely incompetent or a saboteur who is deliberately trying to scupper the possibility of a successful separation from the corrupt union which we voted to leave.

[TheBlackHorse]

... the politicians abdicated their responsibility to take a decision on the EU when they/Cameron opted to pass the decision to the voting population. This means they have absolutely no right to hamper the leaving process of getting out of the corrupt and failing EU. All they should do is cut out the whingeing and deal with day-to-day UK matters; ie., shut up about leaving and let those charged with negotiating get on with it. In any event, we know that the EU don't know how to negotiate; all they do is compromise at the very last minute - in this case probably Jan/Feb next year.
So just relax, enjoy the World Cup; enjoy the new challenges at NCFC; enjoy Christmas and let's see how it unfolds. COYP.

[seriouspie]

... the politicians abdicated their responsibility to take a decision on the EU when they/Cameron opted to pass the decision to the voting population. This means they have absolutely no right to hamper the leaving process of getting out of the corrupt and failing EU. All they should do is cut out the whingeing and deal with day-to-day UK matters; ie., shut up about leaving and let those charged with negotiating get on with it. In any event, we know that the EU don't know how to negotiate; all they do is compromise at the very last minute - in this case probably Jan/Feb next year.
So just relax, enjoy the World Cup; enjoy the new challenges at NCFC; enjoy Christmas and let's see how it unfolds. COYP.

Wise and factual words.

[i961pie]

I am now going to rock your world, Elite. I agree with every word you've written in this post. We are of one mind and I bet you haven't often been told that on here.

Only by you, how unusual>;)

[i961pie]

I would counter that argument with the fact that those who wanted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for and how to go about it. The problem has been that the process has been overseen and controlled by those who voted remain and they have never reconciled themselves to the result of the referendum. Consequently, there has been a plethora of obfuscation, incoherence and indecision. I do not think that May could have done a worse job which to me shows that she is either completely incompetent or a saboteur who is deliberately trying to scupper the possibility of a successful separation from the corrupt union which we voted to leave.

Ditto

[Elite_Pie]

Good to know that after the crisis meeting the cabinet are now fully united behind Mrs May.

Oops, scrub that! The EU must be laughing their tits off at this shambles of a government.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

I don't recall leaving the SM and CU being mentioned on the ballot paper. In fact I distinctly recall in the run-up some Brex****eers saying that would not happen. And they wouldn't lie would they?

this is exactly what was being touted !!!

[PedroTheFisherman66]

No it didn't.
It did on the remain propaganda sent to every address in Britain, printed with taxpayers money.
Read the leaflet, make your mind up and go to the polling station.
How many times have you voted in a General Election and next to the candidates name are their political views and aims? None.
Will you see any in the future? No.
This 'what wasn't on the ballot paper' has been laughable and desperate since it first appeared.
Across the pond another bunch of crybaby losers are still throwing toys around too. They are actually harassing people and breaking up meetings.
History has a name for these people.

I'm afraid you are talking out your rear orifice DAM 617 ..
Gove, Boris and Farage were all saying that the EU have got to trade with us , as we buy all of their BMW'S there is no way they would put tariffs on us as we are a major importer of there goods
They forgot to mention that if the EU did not make an example of us then the EU as it stands would collapse.
They have no choice but to put Tariffs' and border checks in place and also lets not forget free movement of people is none negotiable ............
unfortunately all the leave campaign forgot to mention anything bad would happen..........it was all win win...
EU will not tax us and we can go out and trade with the rest off the world as they are queuing up to buy our black puddings etc !!!
This and more was promised to the Brexiters , lets not forget the 250 million a week we could go out and spend ...that was immediately revoked the next morning by none other than Farage !!!

[i961pie]

I don't recall leaving the SM and CU being mentioned on the ballot paper. In fact I distinctly recall in the run-up some Brex****eers saying that would not happen. And they wouldn't lie would they?

David Cameron came on tv a week before the election and stated if you vote to leave the EU that means leaving the the single market and customs union. How much clearer can you be.
At the next general election it won't state on the ballot paper how May intends to sell the leave voters down the river or how Corbyn and his cronies want to turn the UK into a Marxist state.

[i961pie]

Good to know that after the crisis meeting the cabinet are now fully united behind Mrs May.

Oops, scrub that! The EU must be laughing their tits off at this shambles of a government.

Of course they are laughing especially when most of our negotiators and leader are remainers who don't actually want brexit.

[drillerpie]

David Cameron came on tv a week before the election and stated if you vote to leave the EU that means leaving the the single market and customs union. How much clearer can you be.


And Brexiters on here said it was project fear and that it would never happen because we import so many Volkswagens.

[i961pie]

And Brexiters on here said it was project fear and that it would never happen because we import so many Volkswagens.

What would never happen?

[i961pie]

And Brexiters on here said it was project fear and that it would never happen because we import so many Volkswagens.

I think the Prime Minister at the time stating what would happen carries a bit more weight than what people on a football forum said.
Or maybe you dote on every word said on here.>;)

[drillerpie]

I think the Prime Minister at the time stating what would happen carries a bit more weight than what people on a football forum said.
Or maybe you dote on every word said on here.>;)

Clearly it doesn't carry any weight because people said they were going to ignore it as it was project fear.

[i961pie]

Clearly it doesn't carry any weight because people said they were going to ignore it as it was project fear.

They did ignore it and project fear so what is your point?

[drillerpie]

They did ignore it and project fear so what is your point?

Nonsense alert

[sidders]

Only by you, how unusual>;)

Should have gone to Spec Savers, shouldn't he, Mr Swale?

[Notsohumblepie]

Nonsense alert

Typical response from one of the "usual suspects"

In view of the current crisis , and as you obviously hold the current negotiating position in total contempt, perhaps you could offer your own suggestions regarding a resolution to the current impasse

I realise that you may wish to consult Sid first, so take your time. Acolytes should know their place

[sidders]

Typical response from one of the "usual suspects"

In view of the current crisis , and as you obviously hold the current negotiating position in total contempt, perhaps you could offer your own suggestions regarding a resolution to the current impasse

I realise that you may wish to consult Sid first, so take your time. Acolytes should know their place

Now that is one dumb post. I have made it clear that I see Driller as a soft Tory with socialist pretensions. I would be the last person he would consult.

[Notsohumblepie]

" A soft Tory with socialist pretensions"

Less cloying than the pretension to Papal Infallibility I suppose

[drillerpie]

Typical response from one of the "usual suspects"

In view of the current crisis , and as you obviously hold the current negotiating position in total contempt, perhaps you could offer your own suggestions regarding a resolution to the current impasse

I realise that you may wish to consult Sid first, so take your time. Acolytes should know their place

Firstly it made no sense in English, secondly it made no sense in the context of the conversation, hence it was nonsense.

[Airborn Pie]

Government negotiating strategy maybe just became clear.

Lord Adonis just stated that 'he hopes' for a 'no deal' outcome which he thinks will force another referendum. This would go a long way to explaining the chaos and lack of clarity that's ensued, it's all been a ploy by the government to get another vote and the outcome they want / ed at the same time saving face and avoiding the accusations of ignoring democracy.

[drillerpie]

Government negotiating strategy maybe just became clear.

Lord Adonis just stated that 'he hopes' for a 'no deal' outcome which he thinks will force another referendum. This would go a long way to explaining the chaos and lack of clarity that's ensued, it's all been a ploy by the government to get another vote and the outcome they want / ed at the same time saving face and avoiding the accusations of ignoring democracy.

Adonis is Labour isn't he?

[Airborn Pie]

Adonis is Labour isn't he?

It's a clear indicator to me, as to why this is such a mess, the remainers want a 'no deal', they think it will lead to another referendum.

Remainers are all pulling with the same aim regardless of party allegiance, I wish they'd pull for the people and country instead of themselves.

[Trickytreesreds]

It's a clear indicator to me, as to why this is such a mess, the remainers want a 'no deal', they think it will lead to another referendum.

Remainers are all pulling with the same aim regardless of party allegiance, I wish they'd pull for the people and country instead of themselves.

This is now going to blow up across all the political bands.
The OUTers will not forgive May and any attempt at a new referendum or/deal.
So what will they do?
The would withdraw their Tory vote and Labour being a complete ass wipe of ideals, expect a new party rising. or a re-surge of UKIP.

No one party will get anything and the turmoil will go on.
Fail to uphold democracy, you get revolution and anarchy.
No deal on the table and infighting for years. Well done snow flakes.

[ncfcog]

The whole sorry episode is an embarrassment and an outright disgrace. Regardless of which way you voted in the referendum democracy is the loser, if ever a country was crying out for a new centrist party it is the UK.

I don't tend to post much on here about politics as I feel I'm not really well enough informed to carry a decent argument, however I'm so angry about May and her incompetent bunch of cockwombles and their ineptitude in fulfilling their duty to the electorate that I just had to do some angry typing!

I'm going to be very transparent, I have always voted Tory and I also voted Leave. I'm a business owner and most of my overseas trade is done outside of the EU so saw Brexit as an opportunity to form trade deals with these non EU countries that would benefit my business and ultimately those who rely on it.

Instead the whole process has been nothing short of catastrophic, this ship is sinking and we are running out of life jackets. I'm currently in total despair.

[Elite_Pie]

In view of the current crisis , and as you obviously hold the current negotiating position in total contempt, perhaps you could offer your own suggestions regarding a resolution to the current impasse

The Tories have taken two years to finally agree on an exit strategy, and it's collapsed in a heap inside two days. I suppose asking a poster on a footy messageboard to suggest a resolution is as good an idea as anything the government might come up with.

[crazyfists]

The Tories have taken two years to finally agree on an exit strategy, and it's collapsed in a heap inside two days. I suppose asking a poster on a footy messageboard to suggest a resolution is as good an idea as anything the government might come up with.

Ha ha Elite is right, what a complete mess. Even if you take into account they didn't plan on having to leave, the time they've taken to come to where we're at today is mind blowingly inept.

[drillerpie]

This is now going to blow up across all the political bands.
The OUTers will not forgive May and any attempt at a new referendum or/deal.
So what will they do?
The would withdraw their Tory vote and Labour being a complete ass wipe of ideals, expect a new party rising. or a re-surge of UKIP.

No one party will get anything and the turmoil will go on.
Fail to uphold democracy, you get revolution and anarchy.
No deal on the table and infighting for years. Well done snow flakes.

Ah it's all the snowflakes' fault, thanks for clarifying that.

I'll ask my question again: there are loads of pro Brexit MPs in the Conservative party who keep going on about the Brexit dividends, the sunlit uplands and so on. May is now weaker than ever (and she's always been weak so that's saying something) so why doesn't one of them take control of the party and negotiate a hard Brexit?

[MagpieTony]

The Tories have taken two years to finally agree on an exit strategy, and it's collapsed in a heap inside two days. I suppose asking a poster on a footy messageboard to suggest a resolution is as good an idea as anything the government might come up with.

I think this may well spell the end of the Tory party if May is not ousted and open up the way for a Corbyn government. At least then, the death of the Country would be 'painful but swift' rather than the prolonged and tortuous 'strong and stable'.

[Elite_Pie]

"Let's take control of our own destiny"

That was the rallying cry of many a Brexiteer. It sounded really impressive, as if we were heading for a dazzling future. I did warn at the time that those "taking control" were a divided and incompetent Tory government. I didn't think they would be this divided and this incompetent however. MagpieTony is right, the Tories don't have a clue and Labour wouldn't be any better. It's hard to see this farce ending in anything but tears.

[Trickytreesreds]

Ah it's all the snowflakes' fault, thanks for clarifying that.

I'll ask my question again: there are loads of pro Brexit MPs in the Conservative party who keep going on about the Brexit dividends, the sunlit uplands and so on. May is now weaker than ever (and she's always been weak so that's saying something) so why doesn't one of them take control of the party and negotiate a hard Brexit?

Because to do so meant turning the Tory party on its head by ousting their elected leader.
The opportunity is now there though. Biggest mistake ever made, was to let a remainer set the strategy. They have undermined it at every turn, whilst the real snot boxes like Sourby and Clarke have been the mouth pieces.
But **** the Tories. The leavers gave them a chance of a major party seeing this through.
They've failed and watch the rebellion begin.
Farage and others offered to help her. She slapped them down.

Well, my prediction still stands. Those voters will be looking for a another party to vote for now.
No faith in Labour and the clowns in charge.
Cables spineless goons? No chance.
So they'll either push a surge back in UKIP or another party emerges.
No one wins, it all gets dirty.

So yes I blame the snow flakes and their refusal to accept a democratic vote. Well the dissent works both ways.

*** Best good news in this. We'll finally be able to get rid of the jocks.

Every cloud and all that.

[drillerpie]

Because to do so meant turning the Tory party on its head by ousting their elected leader.
The opportunity is now there though. Biggest mistake ever made, was to let a remainer set the strategy. They have undermined it at every turn, whilst the real snot boxes like Sourby and Clarke have been the mouth pieces.
But **** the Tories. The leavers gave them a chance of a major party seeing this through.
They've failed and watch the rebellion begin.
Farage and others offered to help her. She slapped them down.

Well, my prediction still stands. Those voters will be looking for a another party to vote for now.
No faith in Labour and the clowns in charge.
Cables spineless goons? No chance.
So they'll either push a surge back in UKIP or another party emerges.
No one wins, it all gets dirty.

So yes I blame the snow flakes and their refusal to accept a democratic vote. Well the dissent works both ways.

*** Best good news in this. We'll finally be able to get rid of the jocks.

Every cloud and all that.

Well ok, let's wait and see which Brexiteer steps forward to be the national hero who will be fondly remembered for decades to come for leading us to a prosperous and glorious future.

My guess is none of them will because behind the rhetoric they know full well Brexit will be at best underwhelming, and at worst an economic catastrophe.

[Elite_Pie]

Because to do so meant turning the Tory party on its head by ousting their elected leader.

The Tories don't have an elected leader. May got the top job by default when Andrea Leadsom threw in the towel.

As for pinning your hopes on a UKIP revival, I'd advise you not to hold your breath on that one. Then again, on second thoughts.....

[countygump]

There was some talk recently of a middle of the road/pro Europe party in the throes of being formed.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/07/new-political-party-break-mould-westminster-uk-brexit

[crazyfists]

Bojo is out now.

[ncfcog]

Despair . . . utter despair :(

[sidders]

Despair . . . utter despair :(

Does ncfcog stand for notts county football club own goal? Cos you leavers have just scored a big one.

[andy6025]

You can rest assured that this will all come to an end, and when it does the result, whichever way, will be used to as an excuse to cut social services, privatise the NHS and give more tax breaks to the wealthy... u know... to 'attract investment.'

No matter what the plan or how united everyone could possibly have gotten behind it, this was always going to be the result.

[i961pie]

Ah it's all the snowflakes' fault, thanks for clarifying that.

I'll ask my question again: there are loads of pro Brexit MPs in the Conservative party who keep going on about the Brexit dividends, the sunlit uplands and so on. May is now weaker than ever (and she's always been weak so that's saying something) so why doesn't one of them take control of the party and negotiate a hard Brexit?

Because the majority of parliament are remainers and don't want brexit.

[Bohinen]

There was some talk recently of a middle of the road/pro Europe party in the throes of being formed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/07/new-political-party-break-mould-westminster-uk-brexit


That's all we need. Will Blair come back? Who will he declare war on this time?

[i961pie]

You can rest assured that this will all come to an end, and when it does the result, whichever way, will be used to as an excuse to cut social services, privatise the NHS and give more tax breaks to the wealthy... u know... to 'attract investment.'

No matter what the plan or how united everyone could possibly have gotten behind it, this was always going to be the result.

There is no result yet.

[i961pie]

The Tories don't have an elected leader. May got the top job by default when Andrea Leadsom threw in the towel.

As for pinning your hopes on a UKIP revival, I'd advise you not to hold your breath on that one. Then again, on second thoughts.....

Just out of interest EP what do you think the 17+ million that voted leave will do if brexit is fudged?

[Elite_Pie]

Just out of interest EP what do you think the 17+ million that voted leave will do if brexit is fudged?

Depends what you mean by 'fudged'. If the decision to leave is overturned I think they'll be better off along with the 16+ million who voted to remain. Did anyone on here who voted leave actually expect to see us in this dire situation two years down the line?

[Trickytreesreds]

Just out of interest EP what do you think the 17+ million that voted leave will do if brexit is fudged?

Exactly what I said 61, **** the system up in reprisal.
I'd vote UKIP again, in the knowledge they won't get power.
What it does, is fowls up British politics, where even the SNP have clout. Serves them right.
Democracy can be a real bitch when it hurts your personal agendas

[Elite_Pie]

What it does, is fowls up British politics.

Only a chicken like you would say that.

[i961pie]

Depends what you mean by 'fudged'. If the decision to leave is overturned I think they'll be better off along with the 16+ million who voted to remain. Did anyone on here who voted leave actually expect to see us in this dire situation two years down the line?

I didn't ask if you thought they were better off or not I asked what do you think they would do especially if brexit doesn't happen?
In answer to your question no I didn't think we would be in this mess but then again Ihought democracy would prevail and negotiations would be handled by people who believed in brexit. How naive am I?

[Elite_Pie]

I didn't ask if you thought they were better off or not I asked what do you think they would do especially if brexit doesn't happen?

The brighter ones will realise they voted the wrong way, the dimmer ones will burst into tears.

There is very little they can do, I'm afraid it's up to the Tories now.

[drillerpie]

Because the majority of parliament are remainers and don't want brexit.

So how have they passed any Brexit legislation?

[Trickytreesreds]

The brighter ones will realise they voted the wrong way, the dimmer ones will burst into tears.

There is very little they can do, I'm afraid it's up to the Tories now.

The dimmer ones will burst into tears? pmsl.

Remoaners have been doing that for months
Get that candle lit

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/candlelit-vigils-wearing-black-crying-remainers-spending-article/

[i961pie]

The brighter ones will realise they voted the wrong way, the dimmer ones will burst into tears.

There is very little they can do, I'm afraid it's up to the Tories now.

So for instance at the next general election you don't think they will have their say and they will just roll over and accept it?

[TheBlackHorse]

... it is said that governments lose elections rather than an opposition winning one. I would sooner see the puppet Corbyn and his commie barstards enter No. 10 and completely f-up, as they surely would, allowing a proper centre-right party back in. Come back Nigel.

[i961pie]

So how have they passed any Brexit legislation?

Only a watered down version will they accept

[ancientpie]

The brighter ones will realise they voted the wrong way, the dimmer ones will burst into tears.

There is very little they can do, I'm afraid it's up to the Tories now.

I will be one of those in tears but they will be for the end of Democracy in our country, why would anyone ever bother to vote on anything again if you know that the "ruling classes" will do what they like anyway?

[Bohinen]

... it is said that governments lose elections rather than an opposition winning one. I would sooner see the puppet Corbyn and his commie barstards enter No. 10 and completely f-up, as they surely would, allowing a proper centre-right party back in. Come back Nigel.

I think we've found some common ground on that one then, except the last bit. I can't quite see Nige as centre right.

And last I heard, he was both dead and dead ...

Not quite like Schrodinger’s Cat, so the thinking goes, Mr Farage now exists in two simultaneous states: dead and dead. If we’ve Voted Leave, Ukip are over. If we’ve voted Remain, Ukip are over.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-leaveeu-party-nigel-farage-ukip-leader-latest-updates-a7098551.html

[Elite_Pie]

So for instance at the next general election you don't think they will have their say and they will just roll over and accept it?

So how do they have their say at the next election? There would probably be an anti-Tory backlash, but then who do you vote for? Labour don't look ready to govern, LibDems are still in the recovery stage, and UKIP are finished (whatever Tricky might think). The time is ripe for a new party to enter the arena, but I doubt they would gain mass support by the next election.

[Elite_Pie]

I will be one of those in tears but they will be for the end of Democracy in our country, why would anyone ever bother to vote on anything again if you know that the "ruling classes" will do what they like anyway?

The thing is, if you really want democracy then surely the most fitting way to democratically represent a 52/48 split would be a very soft Brexit, but neither side seem to want that.

[Trickytreesreds]

So how do they have their say at the next election? There would probably be an anti-Tory backlash, but then who do you vote for? Labour don't look ready to govern, LibDems are still in the recovery stage, and UKIP are finished (whatever Tricky might think). The time is ripe for a new party to enter the arena, but I doubt they would gain mass support by the next election.

You're missing my point EP. 17.2 M voters are pissed off.
They are likely to vote SNP rather than the clowns of Conservative or Labour.
As I said, democracy can be a bitch in the wrong hands.

[Bohinen]

So how do they have their say at the next election? There would probably be an anti-Tory backlash, but then who do you vote for? Labour don't look ready to govern, LibDems are still in the recovery stage, and UKIP are finished (whatever Tricky might think). The time is ripe for a new party to enter the arena, but I doubt they would gain mass support by the next election.

Labour may not be ready to govern but they can't be any worse than what we have. They might even be more willing to implement Brexit, because Corbyn sure as Hell likes the idea. I'm sure there will be an insignificant little rebellion by the look at me brigade and the Party from Hell may well be formed. Chucky Omoaner and that awful Soubry woman will be prime candidates, along with Dale Winton lookalike Chris Leslie and Clegg.

In past times, a breakaway has been enough to wreck Labour and ensure Tory rule for what seemed like an eternity, but now if May welches on Brexit, the electorate will never forgive her and either there will be a split off to the right from them or UKIP will rise from its grave.

[Elite_Pie]

You're missing my point EP. 17.2 M voters are pissed off.

Wrong. I would guess that nearly all of the 33,551,983 who cast a Brexit vote are pissed off.

I doubt anybody voted to land this country in the sh!theap it now finds itself in.

[andy6025]

There is no result yet.

Nobody said there was a result yet.

[i961pie]

So how do they have their say at the next election? There would probably be an anti-Tory backlash, but then who do you vote for? Labour don't look ready to govern, LibDems are still in the recovery stage, and UKIP are finished (whatever Tricky might think). The time is ripe for a new party to enter the arena, but I doubt they would gain mass support by the next election.

Hmmm interesting times ahead me thinks. If what is happening in the rest of Europe and America is anything to go by when politicians don't listen to the electorate a lurch to the right often occurs.

[Elite_Pie]

Hmmm interesting times ahead me thinks. If what is happening in the rest of Europe and America is anything to go by when politicians don't listen to the electorate a lurch to the right often occurs.

Macron came from nowhere to defeat the right in France, but I think we are too entrenched in two-party politics over here for that to happen by the next general election.

[Airborn Pie]

Labour may not be ready to govern but they can't be any worse than what we have. They might even be more willing to implement Brexit, because Corbyn sure as Hell likes the idea. I'm sure there will be an insignificant little rebellion by the look at me brigade and the Party from Hell may well be formed. Chucky Omoaner and that awful Soubry woman will be prime candidates, along with Dale Winton lookalike Chris Leslie and Clegg.

In past times, a breakaway has been enough to wreck Labour and ensure Tory rule for what seemed like an eternity, but now if May welches on Brexit, the electorate will never forgive her and either there will be a split off to the right from them or UKIP will rise from its grave.
He does like the idea but he's pro free movement so that would be a soft Brexit and the worst possible outcome for the whole country, may as well be all in than out but paying in anyway.

[i961pie]

Macron came from nowhere to defeat the right in France, but I think we are too entrenched in two-party politics over here for that to happen by the next general election.

But the 2 main parties in France were ignored and the right got 35% of the vote. What with what happened in Austria, Italy and not forgetting Trump it might become a bit scary even over here.

[Elite_Pie]

But the 2 main parties in France were ignored and the right got 35% of the vote. What with what happened in Austria, Italy and not forgetting Trump it might become a bit scary even over here.

But which party here offers a 'lurch to the right' from the current incumbents? Only a complete moron (hello Tricky) would vote UKIP as they are actually in an even worse mess than the Tories. They can't even find a credible leader let alone form a cabinet and a government. The only other options are the far right such as EDL, and they would struggle to get more than 2% of the national vote. We are stuck with Labour and Conservative, and neither inspire confidence.

[ancientpie]

The thing is, if you really want democracy then surely the most fitting way to democratically represent a 52/48 split would be a very soft Brexit, but neither side seem to want that.

On the leaflet that was sent to every household in the country I cannot remember any mention of a soft Brexit nor indeed a hard Brexit, what I can remember is a stark warning to think very carefully before casting your vote because the result would be binding & NO WAY would you get a 2nd chance, it now seems that this was only the case if the vote went the way that the powers wanted.

[Trickytreesreds]

But which party here offers a 'lurch to the right' from the current incumbents? Only a complete moron (hello Tricky) would vote UKIP as they are actually in an even worse mess than the Tories. They can't even find a credible leader let alone form a cabinet and a government. The only other options are the far right such as EDL, and they would struggle to get more than 2% of the national vote. We are stuck with Labour and Conservative, and neither inspire confidence.

Can't help yourself can you?

Twist/bend/insinuate. Pathetic really.
I brought up UKIP, not because I expect them to be in government or brilliant.
They are a protest party vote to rock the boat.
As I said, expect most of the 17.4 to do something similar again.
It's time the smirk was wiped off these idiots faces.
Corbyn/May/Cable absolutely useless and so out of touch with any majority.

It's a pity Lord Sutch isn't still around. Now would be his time.

[magpie_mania]

'It's a pity Lord Sutch isn't still around. Now would be his time'.

You have a real handle on politics tricky.

Never mind though, Nigel is going on LBC at 7.00 to reveal his next political step.

[Elite_Pie]

I brought up UKIP, not because I expect them to be in government or brilliant. They are a protest party vote to rock the boat.

As I said, expect most of the 17.4 to do something similar again.

That post sums up the sheer stupidity of your argument better than I ever could. If as you predict, most of the 17.4 million do something similar we could end up with UKIP ruining (sorry, I meant to type running) the country! We won't of course, because luckily most of the electorate aren't as thick as you. Keep shagging your blow-up Farage doll, it's as close as you'll get to satisfaction.

[drillerpie]

'It's a pity Lord Sutch isn't still around. Now would be his time'.

You have a real handle on politics tricky.

Never mind though, Nigel is going on LBC at 7.00 to reveal his next political step.

Second step surely, the first will be to extract himself from whichever of Donald Trump's orifices he's currently occupying.

[i961pie]

That post sums up the sheer stupidity of your argument better than I ever could. If as you predict, most of the 17.4 million do something similar we could end up with UKIP ruining (sorry, I meant to type running) the country! We won't of course, because luckily most of the electorate aren't as thick as you. Keep shagging your blow-up Farage doll, it's as close as you'll get to satisfaction.

But if there is a protest vote who do you think the people would vote for? The remain camp have never stopped moaning and trying to overturn a democratic vote yet you seem to think the leave voters will just think ok we were wrong and accept brexit not happening. In another post you ask who from the right wing is there to vote for and then at the same time say Macron came from nowhere to win the French election, so who knows.
Old Harold's a week is a long time in politics quote couldn't be more accurate.

[MagpieTony]

That post sums up the sheer stupidity of your argument better than I ever could. If as you predict, most of the 17.4 million do something similar we could end up with UKIP ruining (sorry, I meant to type running) the country! We won't of course, because luckily most of the electorate aren't as thick as you. Keep shagging your blow-up Farage doll, it's as close as you'll get to satisfaction.

Well, Tricky is not the only 'thick' member of the electorate in this speedily downward spiralling Country. I have even gone one step further down your road of mental and intellectual incapacity. As a result of the pathetic and incompetent Tory party and a contemptible and equally incompetent Labour party I have renewed my UKIP membership. This has nothing to do with Farage, rather than my belief that the two party political trap that we are in needs to be broken and if I continue to vote into that system it will just self perpetuate. In the words of Einstein "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." I am fed up with this seemingly inescapable political merry go round and view it as one big con. The politicians are complacent and self preserving, knowing that they will never be replaced as they have the public duped into believing that there is no credible alternative and anything else is a wasted vote. This is an illusion and a lie! Though UKIP may not be the perfect solution it at least provides some alternative as a voice and if the issue of Brexit is fudged, as much as everyone may deride and sneer, UKIP will grow in popularity in the same way it did to force the referendum in the first place. It may never get to government but can be a great influence on the political stage and in some way, maybe achieve the impossible, by keeping serving politicians honest and accountable!

[Bohinen]

But if there is a protest vote who do you think the people would vote for? The remain camp have never stopped moaning and trying to overturn a democratic vote yet you seem to think the leave voters will just think ok we were wrong and accept brexit not happening. In another post you ask who from the right wing is there to vote for and then at the same time say Macron came from nowhere to win the French election, so who knows.
Old Harold's a week is a long time in politics quote couldn't be more accurate.

I agree that it is massively naive to imagine Leave voters will just say, oh well, we were stupid and now see that the Remainers know best. But the Macron solution is not possible in the UK because we do not have their type of presidential voting system, with people knocked out in rounds like a talent show.

In France, there always seems to be an election of a president no-one really wants and it was the same with Macron, who only scored just over 20% in the first ballot, the same as the communists and the far right. And then the centre and soft right scared the living daylights out of the rest of the electorate with stories of revolutionaries and racists. It's like when Chirac was elected and people supposedly voted for him with pegs on their noses to see off Le Pen senior.

So now they are stuck with Macron, massively unpopular now and Merkel's poodle. And the irony is, on every issue except immigration, he's far to the right of Marine Le Pen. I think the lesson for us is to beware of the so called centrists, they are wolves in sheep's clothing. I would rather the left or the right who openly state what they stand for. We can then make our choice, for better or for worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/09/macron-pledges-to-overhaul-french-welfare-state

An Odoxa survey last week found just 29% of French people thought his policies were fair.

[Elite_Pie]

Well, Tricky is not the only 'thick' member of the electorate in this speedily downward spiralling Country. I have even gone one step further down your road of mental and intellectual incapacity. As a result of the pathetic and incompetent Tory party and a contemptible and equally incompetent Labour party I have renewed my UKIP membership. This has nothing to do with Farage, rather than my belief that the two party political trap that we are in needs to be broken and if I continue to vote into that system it will just self perpetuate. In the words of Einstein "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." I am fed up with this seemingly inescapable political merry go round and view it as one big con. The politicians are complacent and self preserving, knowing that they will never be replaced as they have the public duped into believing that there is no credible alternative and anything else is a wasted vote. This is an illusion and a lie! Though UKIP may not be the perfect solution it at least provides some alternative as a voice and if the issue of Brexit is fudged, as much as everyone may deride and sneer, UKIP will grow in popularity in the same way it did to force the referendum in the first place. It may never get to government but can be a great influence on the political stage and in some way, maybe achieve the impossible, by keeping serving politicians honest and accountable!

I agree with pretty much everything you say about the horrors of the two party system, and also agree that neither Conservatives or Labour look capable of forming a competent government. I would also like an alternative party to put my 'X' against, but I find it incredible that anyone could consider UKIP as that alternative. They are a party in a far worse mess than any other, and a hundred times worse than the two main parties. They are riddled with infighting and can't even find a leader to last more than a few months. I also find the notion that they might "achieve the impossible, by keeping serving politicians honest and accountable" laughable. When it comes to feathering your own nest, there's not a lot you could teach Mr Farage.

[Notsohumblepie]

Second step surely, the first will be to extract himself from whichever of Donald Trump's orifices he's currently occupying.

I thought Sadiq Khan was using one of them to blow up his balloon.

[ancientpie]

I agree with pretty much everything you say about the horrors of the two party system, and also agree that neither Conservatives or Labour look capable of forming a competent government. I would also like an alternative party to put my 'X' against, but I find it incredible that anyone could consider UKIP as that alternative. They are a party in a far worse mess than any other, and a hundred times worse than the two main parties. They are riddled with infighting and can't even find a leader to last more than a few months. I also find the notion that they might "achieve the impossible, by keeping serving politicians honest and accountable" laughable. When it comes to feathering your own nest, there's not a lot you could teach Mr Farage.

If as now seems very likely "Brexit" is sabotaged by politicians feathering their own nests I believe that the next election will be full of people thinking much like Tony, the notion that parties like UKIP can "achieve the impossible" might be laughable but they haven't been given the chance YET whereas the main parties have a proven record of ignoring the people who vote for them! my prediction is that any far right party that stands next election will piss it on a protest vote from disgruntled "Brexiteers".

[Elite_Pie]

my prediction is that any far right party that stands next election will piss it on a protest vote from disgruntled "Brexiteers".

I would disagree wholeheartedly with your prediction. I accept that there will be millions of very disgruntled voters, but I would be amazed if any far right party got a single seat let alone enough to form a government. This country is undoubtedly in a bit of a mess, but I can't see why anyone would see the far right (or the far left) as a solution to the problems.

[i961pie]

I would disagree wholeheartedly with your prediction. I accept that there will be millions of very disgruntled voters, but I would be amazed if any far right party got a single seat let alone enough to form a government. This country is undoubtedly in a bit of a mess, but I can't see why anyone would see the far right (or the far left) as a solution to the problems.

No way would a far right party be able to form a government but it will be very interesting to see our 17 million pissed off voters react

[Trickytreesreds]

No way would a far right party be able to form a government but it will be very interesting to see our 17 million pissed off voters react

That 61, is what I said.
No one doubts that a party like UKIP is ever going to get in power. But out of that 17.4 M a quarter were UKIP voters, who will have backed the Tories to see this through.
Now they and others will be out to turn over the apple cart.
Conservatives have gone turn coat, Labour offer nothing, and the Lib Dems want it how it is now.
Not happening, so they'll do a protest vote, just to **** it up.

Don't respect democracy, it will come back to haunt you.

British politics is about to turn into a frenzy. I'm sure the MP's little pensions and the Lords cushy life make it seem reasonable for them.
But even the little man has a voice.

[Elite_Pie]

British politics is about to turn into a frenzy.

It really isn't. You have to realise that thankfully not everyone thinks your way. The next government will be either Conservative or Labour, and it's quite possible that both parties will have more seats rather than less. The other parties might get a few more votes, but it won't be translated into seats in the Commons. Your voice isn't anywhere near as loud as you think it is.

[Redrag]

That post sums up the sheer stupidity of your argument better than I ever could. If as you predict, most of the 17.4 million do something similar we could end up with UKIP ruining (sorry, I meant to type running) the country! We won't of course, because luckily most of the electorate aren't as thick as you. Keep shagging your blow-up Farage doll, it's as close as you'll get to satisfaction.

I'd sooner vote UKIP than Labour, Tory or Lib Dem.