Pro Brexit factsEU news letters

[soulman101]

http://facts4eu.org/news_aug_c_2018.shtml
Has anyone read these.

[kettering_baggie]

What do they say?

[soulman101]

Hi ,just came across it there's a letter each month. The link i've put up , it explains about the EU cohesion fund of £57 billion pounds of which we have contributed to., but ain't allowed to have access to for UK projects.The Cohesion fund is for projects in Bulgaria ,Poland Malta etc.
Poland alone have had £23B, one Polish city Lodz has received £0.6 Billion to upgraded the railway. Our £39B exit fee is earmarked for these projects.
If you are a remainer it will open your eyes to what the EU is and has been up to and what a bad deal we have had being part of it.

[WBA123]

I'm confused, if we're leaving of course we're not going to get access to it?

We have had access to it and are entitled access to it until 2020.

As per below;




In 2014-2020, the UK will manage seven**** operational programmes under EU Cohesion Policy. Of these, six will receive funding from the European Regional Development Fund (one for Northern Ireland, two for Wales, one for Scotland, one for Gibraltar and one for England) and six will receive funding from the European Social Fund (one each for England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, two for Wales).

How much will the EU invest in the UK from 2014-2020? For 2014-2020, the UK has been allocated around € 11.8 billion (current prices) in total Cohesion Policy funding:

€ 2.6 billion for less developed regions (Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, West Wales and the Valleys).
€ 2.5 billion for transition regions (Northern Ireland, the Highlands and Islands, Cumbria, Tees Valley and Durham, Lancashire, South Yorkshire, East Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire, Lincolnshire, Shropshire and Staffordshire, and Devon).
€ 5.6 billion for more developed regions (Northumberland and Tyne and Wear; Cheshire; Greater Manchester; North Yorkshire; West Yorkshire; Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire; Leicestershire, Rutland and Northamptonshire; Herefordshire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire; West Midlands; East Anglia; Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire; Es***; Inner London; Outer London; Berkshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire; Surrey, East and West Sus***; Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Kent; Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Bristol/Bath area; Dorset and Somerset; Eastern Scotland; South Western Scotland; North Eastern Scotland; East Wales).
€ 866 million for European Territorial Cooperation.
€ 206million for the Youth Employment Initiative. Of this, the ESF will account for a minimum of €4.9 billion. The final share for ESF is fixed in light of the specific challenges the country needs to address in areas covered by the ESF.

The total allocation from Cohesion Policy funding for the 2007-2013 period was € 10.6 billion. Since the beginning of the 2007-2013 funding period, amongst other achievements, ERDF investments have helped the UK:

create more than 87 000 jobs;
assist the start-up of more than 29 000 businesses;
support more than 1 770 research and technical development projects. The ERDF provides investment for a wide variety of projects in order to stimulate and strengthen innovation in regions. This is achieved by increasing technology transfer from universities, institutes and businesses to improve products and processes, and boost commercialisation of innovations. It also promotes a shift towards knowledge-intensive growth clusters, supports businesses in their start-up phase, and encourages adoption of environmental best practice. ESF projects aim to enhance the employability and up-skilling of young people, particularly the ones not in employment, education or training (NEETs), the long-term unemployed and disadvantaged, to combat poverty, and to increase the participation of women in the labour market. In the current ESF programme in England there have been over 4 million participants (1.56 million unemployed, 554 000 inactive, 663 000 with basic skills needs, 17% disabled, 19% aged 50 and over, 36% women and 19% from ethnic minorities) of which 360 000 were in work after leaving, 150 000 gained basic skills and over 430 000 gained full qualifications at level 2 and over.

[soulman101]

Since joining we have given the EU £400B and got back £175B.

[albion68]

That’s why the eu are shytting themselves .

[holmleighchris]

Since joining we have given the EU £400B and got back £175B.

How have you sourced this figure? What does it include/exclude?

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

For 2016

UK Total Contibution £18.9 billion

Rebate £4.2 billion

EU Funded public & private sector credits £5,6 billion

Net Contibution £8.1 billion.

If my number of noughts is correct that's £267 per year for each UK tax payer.

WARNING: This net figure is less than the £9.4 billion our own Office for National Statistics calculates as the net figure. The £8.1 billion is from a highly dubious source not exactly known for its efficiency. The European Commission.

[Leicesterbaggie]

All these figures quoted may be relevant or not, true or false, but the bottom line is, as a nation, we voted to come out. I'm a Tory voter but Theresa May is making a complete 'pig's ear' of it. The problem is that at heart she is a remainer and there lies the problem. What the final outcome will be, I haven't a clue, but what I do know is that if the government reneges on what the majority voted for then my faith in democracy will be completely and utterly shot!

[WBA123]

For 2016

UK Total Contibution £18.9 billion

Rebate £4.2 billion

EU Funded public & private sector credits £5,6 billion

Net Contibution £8.1 billion.

If my number of noughts is correct that's £267 per year for each UK tax payer.

WARNING: This net figure is less than the £9.4 billion our own Office for National Statistics calculates as the net figure. The £8.1 billion is from a highly dubious source not exactly known for its efficiency. The European Commission.

Can I ask you a question and also make an observation

Q. Why do you think every impartial and independent financial research or fiscal study appear to point out that we will be economically worse off for leaving the EU?

My observation is that its because the benefits of our single market membership is worth more than our contributions. Remember our contributions pay for many centralised European institutions which benefit the UK.

[WBA123]

All these figures quoted may be relevant or not, true or false, but the bottom line is, as a nation, we voted to come out. I'm a Tory voter but Theresa May is making a complete 'pig's ear' of it. The problem is that at heart she is a remainer and there lies the problem. What the final outcome will be, I haven't a clue, but what I do know is that if the government reneges on what the majority voted for then my faith in democracy will be completely and utterly shot!

Don't worry, when Brexit turns out to be a disaster - Farage, Davies, Gove, Boris etc. will all turn around and blame someone else. Its their standard playbook.

We need another vote.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Don't worry, when Brexit turns out to be a disaster - Farage, Davies, Gove, Boris etc. will all turn around and blame someone else. Its their standard playbook.

We need another vote.

I know that as far as politics are concerned 123, we are on different sides of the track. My only observation is that we had a vote and no matter who said what in the 'run up' we voted to come out. As far as I 'm concerned, that's democracy. What's the the point on any type of election if the losing side won't accept it and want a rerun. I didn't vote for Blair but I had to put up with him for ten years!

[Albionic68]

Christ, not all of this b@ll@cks again.

As if the ongoing debate over who's the greater cannot on Sweeper's thread wasn't enough XD .

Mental reminder to self: try really hard to resist temptation and leave this thread closed for others to chew the fat over.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Christ, not all of this b@ll@cks again.

As if the ongoing debate over who's the greater cannot on Sweeper's thread wasn't enough XD .

Mental reminder to self: try really hard to resist temptation and leave this thread closed for others to chew the fat over.

Yeah, you're probably right '68.

[Roymit]

I swore never to involve myself in a political thread again. There you are, I've just gone and sworn again!

[holmleighchris]

Christ, not all of this b@ll@cks again.

As if the ongoing debate over who's the greater cannot on Sweeper's thread wasn't enough XD .

Mental reminder to self: try really hard to resist temptation and leave this thread closed for others to chew the fat over.

I thought that but got pulled in a little. No match week, have to talk about something. Anything is better than the Al, Blood, Sweeper thread.

[WBA123]

I know that as far as politics are concerned 123, we are on different sides of the track. My only observation is that we had a vote and no matter who said what in the 'run up' we voted to come out. As far as I 'm concerned, that's democracy. What's the the point on any type of election if the losing side won't accept it and want a rerun. I didn't vote for Blair but I had to put up with him for ten years!

The referendum question was too open to interpretation and was hijacked by lies. How can any functioning democracy work to that?

Before the Referendum this happened;

- David Davies said that negotiating a deal with the EU would be 'the easiest deal in history'. He also said that by the time we were ready to come out of the EU, we would have up to 60 FTAs ready to sign.
- Liam Fox said we would be able to negotiate FTAs 'the day after the referendum'
- Dan Hannan said that a vote to leave 'wouldn't threaten our place in the Single Market'
- Boris Johnson campaigned for leave after writing an unpublished article to support remain, because he thought he would stand a better chance of becoming a PM by appealing to Tory Eurosceptics.
- Nigel Farage said repeatedly before the referendum we should have a 'Norway' style deal, who are in Schengen and have less border control than us. He also said that 'in the event of a 52-48 vote, it wouldn't be over by a long way' presumably when he thought the Leave vote wouldn't win the referendum. But now, this hypocrite thinks we should 'accept democracy'...

Two of the five people above have held cabinet ministerial positions in the last two years, they could effect change more than anyone in the country.

In light of the above, can you honestly say all 17m people who voted to leave voted for us to leave the CU and SM? Did they vote leave thinking we would be without a deal in 2019? Did they believe we would have a deal lined up with the EU and other FTAs in the pipeline by now?

More importantly, do you think that voters have more understanding about the effects of Brexit now compared to 2016?

There is nothing more democratic than another vote.

[talkSAFT]

People like "Save £350m per month" Johnson should be told to resign from Parliament by his Constituents after his bullsh.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Can I ask you a question and also make an observation

Q. Why do you think every impartial and independent financial research or fiscal study appear to point out that we will be economically worse off for leaving the EU?

My observation is that its because the benefits of our single market membership is worth more than our contributions. Remember our contributions pay for many centralised European institutions which benefit the UK.

Blimey someone who gives credence to what Financial 'Experts' predict. Their track record of getting things right is on a par with Pardew's time at the Baggies.

They said immediately after we voted for Brexit

There would have to be a emergency budget
UK house prices would plumet
Interest Rates would have to increase.

Mind you 'they' have been getting all of those and lots of others repeatedly wrong Brexit or no Brexit.

I posted after the vote that for those of us that voted Out things wouldn't be as good as we hoped and for those who voted Remain things wouldn't be as bad as they feared. Despite the best efforts of our leaders to make a complete pigs ear of it I still believe that to be true.

My great fear is Brexit results in Boris for PM or (and this bit really does concern me) a Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott led Goverment.

[WBA123]

Blimey someone who gives credence to what Financial 'Experts' predict. Their track record of getting things right is on a par with Pardew's time at the Baggies.

They said immediately after we voted for Brexit

There would have to be a emergency budget
UK house prices would plumet
Interest Rates would have to increase.

Mind you 'they' have been getting all of those and lots of others repeatedly wrong Brexit or no Brexit.

I posted after the vote that for those of us that voted Out things wouldn't be as good as we hoped and for those who voted Remain things wouldn't be as bad as they feared. Despite the best efforts of our leaders to make a complete pigs ear of it I still believe that to be true.

My great fear is Brexit results in Boris for PM or (and this bit really does concern me) a Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott led Goverment.

A couple of things I'd say about this,

- I'd listen to financial experts over our own politicians yes. Who would you rather trust Farage or the Governer of the BoE? And not only that, check the leaked Brexit Impact Assessment report, it doesn't make for good reading - especially for the West Midlands region.

- The day after the vote, the BoE offered large scale liquidity to financial institutions and cut the capital requirements on banks, in August 2016 they reduced interest rates down by a 1/4. These fiscal decisions saved us from recession. I know of one Medium sized business (about 300 employees) based in the UK who lost just shy of £500k in currency fluctuations the day after the vote, they were lucky they had good investors to be able to stay in business.

- Agree with your last point. Boris is a disaster as are almost all of the Tories. I won't vote for Corbyn again but still feel he is a better alternative to the Tories. My prediction is that a new centralist pro European party would clear up at the next election.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

A couple of things I'd say about this,

- I'd listen to financial experts over our own politicians yes. Who would you rather trust Farage or the Governer of the BoE? And not only that, check the leaked Brexit Impact Assessment report, it doesn't make for good reading - especially for the West Midlands region.

- The day after the vote, the BoE offered large scale liquidity to financial institutions and cut the capital requirements on banks, in August 2016 they reduced interest rates down by a 1/4. These fiscal decisions saved us from recession. I know of one Medium sized business (about 300 employees) based in the UK who lost just shy of £500k in currency fluctuations the day after the vote, they were lucky they had good investors to be able to stay in business.

- Agree with your last point. Boris is a disaster as are almost all of the Tories. I won't vote for Corbyn again but still feel he is a better alternative to the Tories. My prediction is that a new centralist pro European party would clear up at the next election.

Or the previous Governor of the BofE who thinks a hard Brexit is best.

Any review of the of financial forecasting I've ever seen is pretty scathing of their accuracy. Predominant reason given is there are too many variances. Well I can't think of anything more open to 'variations' than Brexit. Can you?

On the gov.uk website they list the top 18 forecasters. Just to take UK GDP for 2019 as an example one has 0.5% growth and another 2%. Take your pick!

Currency flucuations happen all the time and all companies should have contingency in place to cope.

Close to agreeing with you on your last point but I reckon a centralist pro British would clean up at the next election.

[baggieal]

People like "Save £350m per month" Johnson should be told to resign from Parliament by his Constituents after his bullsh.


What about the Jew hater - "free tuition fees for all uni students"! He's still trying to work out, where the dosh is coming from and one thing is for sure - it's not the 27 million dividend that Baggie Bird appears to have eaten!!!!

[WBA123]

What about the Jew hater - "free tuition fees for all uni students"! He's still trying to work out, where the dosh is coming from and one thing is for sure - it's not the 27 million dividend that Baggie Bird appears to have eaten!!!!

Absolutely bizarre.

I have no idea how you voted, but imagine it wasn't for the Tories. Because Labour's manifesto was actually costed and the Tories wasn't.

I also can't work out how you come to that conclusion given that Labour didn't win the last election and didn't put their costed manifesto to the test. It could entirely be plausible to give free tuition fees to Uni students - it happened before 1998, only 20 years ago. By the way, the Tories were in power before 1997 - giving all of those free tuition fees out....

If you did vote Tory, did you ask where they got the money from to pay the DUP £1.5b? Where did that cash come from to shore up their majority in parliament - probably from public money set aside for nurses and police.

I'm not a huge Corbyn fan, but he's better than the current shower we have in the box seat.

[WBA123]

Or the previous Governor of the BofE who thinks a hard Brexit is best.

Any review of the of financial forecasting I've ever seen is pretty scathing of their accuracy. Predominant reason given is there are too many variances. Well I can't think of anything more open to 'variations' than Brexit. Can you?

On the gov.uk website they list the top 18 forecasters. Just to take UK GDP for 2019 as an example one has 0.5% growth and another 2%. Take your pick!

Currency flucuations happen all the time and all companies should have contingency in place to cope.

Close to agreeing with you on your last point but I reckon a centralist pro British would clean up at the next election.

You make some good points. But do you believe we will be financially better off for leaving the EU?

Take a look at the Brexit Impact Assessment report. This is a report done by the Govt Dept for Brexit with the caveat that we will negotiate FTAs. There is a reason why May and Corbyn won't answer a simple question as to whether we will be better off for leaving the EU. The vast majority of forecasters say we won't be.

So its an odds game, forecasters don't always get it right, but the odds are that we will be better off economically staying in the EU than leaving. I can't figure out why people just dismiss expert opinion. Do you listen to what your doctor tells you when you're ill, or a mechanic when your car breaks down? These people don't always get it right - but they're best placed to make a judgement.

Small currency fluctuations happen all the time yes, but the day after the ref the pound fell to a 31 year low. It absolutely tanked against the Euro and the Dollar. The company I'm talking about did take provisions in the event of a leave vote - they would have lost close to £1m had they not. And what for? Why are we taking these risks to our industry...I can't understand it. There is no tangible economic benefit to it.

I'm happy to discuss pros and cons with people, but the majority just say slogans and regurgitate crap they read in the gutter press.
Sounds like you're switched on though, so It would be good to get your angle on it and why you believe Leave is the way forward...

[soulman101]

Hi ,i voted in the 70s to join the Common market,not what it has grown into.The EU has never treated the UK with any respect,it's all been one way traffic.
Why would anyone want to part of this anti democratic corruption. The farce and cost of moving once a month to Strasbourg.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

You make some good points. But do you believe we will be financially better off for leaving the EU?

Take a look at the Brexit Impact Assessment report. This is a report done by the Govt Dept for Brexit with the caveat that we will negotiate FTAs. There is a reason why May and Corbyn won't answer a simple question as to whether we will be better off for leaving the EU. The vast majority of forecasters say we won't be.

So its an odds game, forecasters don't always get it right, but the odds are that we will be better off economically staying in the EU than leaving. I can't figure out why people just dismiss expert opinion. Do you listen to what your doctor tells you when you're ill, or a mechanic when your car breaks down? These people don't always get it right - but they're best placed to make a judgement.

Small currency fluctuations happen all the time yes, but the day after the ref the pound fell to a 31 year low. It absolutely tanked against the Euro and the Dollar. The company I'm talking about did take provisions in the event of a leave vote - they would have lost close to £1m had they not. And what for? Why are we taking these risks to our industry...I can't understand it. There is no tangible economic benefit to it.

I'm happy to discuss pros and cons with people, but the majority just say slogans and regurgitate crap they read in the gutter press.
Sounds like you're switched on though, so It would be good to get your angle on it and why you believe Leave is the way forward...

Good on you 123. A proper arguement well put.

I could give you a very detailed reply with lots of examples of where Financial Experts have failed. According to a Radio 4 prog I heard a week ago 'they' have failed to predict 98 of the last 100 recessions.

THE EXPERTS SAID JOINING THE EURO WAS A GOOD IDEA. Does anyone still think that was sound advice?

Can't accept your absolutely tanked quote. It went down 7%. I recall the Pound going from 10 French Francs to 7 in just a few years during the 90's, first time I went to the States (with Laker Airlines) it was 2.20. It's been tanking ever since.

The reason I voted out is simple.

I believe the whole concept is just plain wrong. How can it be a good idea to unify such diverse countries as the Scadanavians and the likes of Romania & Bulgaria? Common Market YES European Union NO>

The tiny Greek economy and its problems almost brought the Euro crashing down. It survived by the skin of its teeth.
What happens if the 10 times larger Italian or the Spanish economy goes bump and at sometime it will.

When that happens I passionately believe the further removed we are the better!

[soulman101]

Spread betting on Sterling, makes you wonder how many millions people in know are making before some of the Brexit speeches.
It's seem odd during the vote count when Farage said the remain had won and yesterdays Barnier speech.

[splinter]

Bored.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Bored.

If you are bored by posts about Brexit why are you reading and posting on threads with Brexit in the title?

[Baggiemadguern]

Imagine if at the toss up before a game of football, every time the loser of the toss said, er lets make it best of three, then the best of five and so on. You would never get the game started.

UK voted to leave, it is done.

That is from a non-member looking in. O:)

[holmleighchris]

Most of the people I know who voted to leave did so due to one thing they want curtailed>>>>>>immigration.
They weren't looking at the possible pitfalls of leaving, merely the fact the country is too full and more and more are flocking in each year.

[talkSAFT]

Most of the people I know who voted to leave did so due to one thing they want curtailed>>>>>>immigration.
They weren't looking at the possible pitfalls of leaving, merely the fact the country is too full and more and more are flocking in each year.

That's the one and only reason I voted Out. We're full up!

[WBA123]

Good on you 123. A proper arguement well put.

I could give you a very detailed reply with lots of examples of where Financial Experts have failed. According to a Radio 4 prog I heard a week ago 'they' have failed to predict 98 of the last 100 recessions.

THE EXPERTS SAID JOINING THE EURO WAS A GOOD IDEA. Does anyone still think that was sound advice?

Can't accept your absolutely tanked quote. It went down 7%. I recall the Pound going from 10 French Francs to 7 in just a few years during the 90's, first time I went to the States (with Laker Airlines) it was 2.20. It's been tanking ever since.

The reason I voted out is simple.

I believe the whole concept is just plain wrong. How can it be a good idea to unify such diverse countries as the Scadanavians and the likes of Romania & Bulgaria? Common Market YES European Union NO>

The tiny Greek economy and its problems almost brought the Euro crashing down. It survived by the skin of its teeth.
What happens if the 10 times larger Italian or the Spanish economy goes bump and at sometime it will.

When that happens I passionately believe the further removed we are the better!

You have your opinions and I have mine, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I would like another vote personally, because I feel we were lead down the garden path by Leave with their stream of lies. But if we don't get one, then I genuinely hope I am wrong and you are right. And that leaving the EU turns out to be the best thing we can do. I can't help but feel it isn't though...

[WBA123]

Most of the people I know who voted to leave did so due to one thing they want curtailed>>>>>>immigration.
They weren't looking at the possible pitfalls of leaving, merely the fact the country is too full and more and more are flocking in each year.

100% correct. The leave vote primarily won on immigration.

Issue is there will always be immigration, it can't be stopped. Immigration can be good for this country, it can improve standards - just look at what it has done for the Premier League as one example.

And EU immigration benefits the country financially. This has been backed up by research by the LSE.

Low or unskilled Non EU immigration is the issue. And the fact is that this won't change by leaving the EU.

[baggieal]

100% correct. The leave vote primarily won on immigration.

Issue is there will always be immigration, it can't be stopped. Immigration can be good for this country, it can improve standards - just look at what it has done for the Premier League as one example.

And EU immigration benefits the country financially. This has been backed up by research by the LSE.

Low or unskilled Non EU immigration is the issue. And the fact is that this won't change by leaving the EU.


It becomes irrelevant though what people voted for as it was a democratic vote. If there were to be a re-vote, then expect civil unrest which could lead to riots as democracy will be shot. Whilst EU immigration can benefit the country and would be difficult to stop, I still can't see why a points system is not in place for non EU immigration such as what USA/Australia have who oppose an open door policy. Perhaps, had Remain done more trying to press for a points system/proper controls, more people who voted leave would have taken them more seriously.

Everyone lied prior to the vote including the Jew hating Corbyn who harked on about free university fees which we all agree with but he could not answer the question - where would the money come from!

I am also a believer in any country/organisation will offer a fantastic trade deal if the price is right! After all, ISIS were selling Syrian oil to those countries who were condemning them - through the back door!

[WBA123]

It becomes irrelevant though what people voted for as it was a democratic vote. If there were to be a re-vote, then expect civil unrest which could lead to riots as democracy will be shot. Whilst EU immigration can benefit the country and would be difficult to stop, I still can't see why a points system is not in place for non EU immigration such as what USA/Australia have who oppose an open door policy. Perhaps, had Remain done more trying to press for a points system/proper controls, more people who voted leave would have taken them more seriously.

Everyone lied prior to the vote including the Jew hating Corbyn who harked on about free university fees which we all agree with but he could not answer the question - where would the money come from!

I am also a believer in any country/organisation will offer a fantastic trade deal if the price is right! After all, ISIS were selling Syrian oil to those countries who were condemning them - through the back door!

A couple of flaws to your logic here,

1. 'Democracy'
There's nothing more democratic than having another vote, in my opinion. Voters are now much better informed than they were two years ago at the last referendum. Public opinion sways, and if enough public opinion has swayed to now want to remain then that is what we should do. In fact, if public opinion has swayed, then it is undemocratic to keep us on this path.

2. 'Civil Unrest'
The day we don't put on a vote or election for fear of civil unrest is the day we become a tinpot 3rd world country

3. 'Everyone lied prior to the vote'
Even more reason to have another vote

4. 'If the price is right'
The one I agree with you on. A country will only sign a FTA with us when it is in their interests do so and the chances are we will have to sacrifice something in return. There have been discussions with India, who requested free movement of people between our countries - do we want more immigration to set up a FTA with India? We already have 60 FTAs or partial FTAs in place negotiated by professional trade negotiators - or 'unelected bureaucrats' as our media like to label them - what is fundamentally wrong with them that we need to change? Why would a country negotiate and trade with us instead of the EU when they have 5 times the population and are 7 times the size of us in GDP terms and they are a much bigger market?

[baggieal]

A couple of flaws to your logic here,

1. 'Democracy'
There's nothing more democratic than having another vote, in my opinion. Voters are now much better informed than they were two years ago at the last referendum. Public opinion sways, and if enough public opinion has swayed to now want to remain then that is what we should do. In fact, if public opinion has swayed, then it is undemocratic to keep us on this path.

2. 'Civil Unrest'
The day we don't put on a vote or election for fear of civil unrest is the day we become a tinpot 3rd world country

3. 'Everyone lied prior to the vote'
Even more reason to have another vote

4. 'If the price is right'
The one I agree with you on. A country will only sign a FTA with us when it is in their interests do so and the chances are we will have to sacrifice something in return. There have been discussions with India, who requested free movement of people between our countries - do we want more immigration to set up a FTA with India? We already have 60 FTAs or partial FTAs in place negotiated by professional trade negotiators - or 'unelected bureaucrats' as our media like to label them - what is fundamentally wrong with them that we need to change? Why would a country negotiate and trade with us instead of the EU when they have 5 times the population and are 7 times the size of us in GDP terms and they are a much bigger market?


Your number 1 is wrong! It's clear almost 2 years down the line anybody would be better informed about anything whether it's Politics, strategic business decisions, doing XYZ rather than ABC etc. So should we say in life, any vote, decision, safety legislation, professional advice can be changed almost 2 years later because an individual is better informed. I signed a legal document over a year ago, but with new legislation and being better informed - can I tell the company concerned, I want to re-sign with new information that's come about? They no doubt, would laugh!

Your number 3 - come on! Many politicians lie every day of the week as do businessmen. As Prince Andrew never taken a bung? Did Philip Green not intentionally rob his company blind? Unfortunately, unless you have 100% evidence, it's all here say. Corbyn made a statement about getting free university fees and thousands of gullible students fell for it! Did he do any wrong - not legally perhaps, but where was the money going to come from? Then again all those young kids who got sucked in, would not have asked the money question, or cared less!

Your number 2 - I agree with but on a vote like this which was done and dusted, it would be highly dangerous to have a re vote. Many of my family voted to remain, but their view is - there can be no vote again otherwise democracy will be shot! Same in the USA - there can be no re vote unless evidence comes to light so Trump will be impeached. The fact, he's a serial shagger, and distorted the truth ( so they say ), and the minority who wanted Clinton to win, is irrelevant.

Personally, I would get rid of May and if we are going out, then go out without all this dilly dallying around and start calling the shots. In terms of negotiation, almost half of the UK goods went to the EU - why would this change, if we were outside of the EU? Other EU countries are starting to break ranks now, and the UK won't be the last country to leave. Perhaps, if the EU had different country tiers, and did something about non EU immigration, then many would not be so quick to condemn.

[WBA123]

Your number 1 is wrong! It's clear almost 2 years down the line anybody would be better informed about anything whether it's Politics, strategic business decisions, doing XYZ rather than ABC etc. So should we say in life, any vote, decision, safety legislation, professional advice can be changed almost 2 years later because an individual is better informed. I signed a legal document over a year ago, but with new legislation and being better informed - can I tell the company concerned, I want to re-sign with new information that's come about? They no doubt, would laugh!

Your number 3 - come on! Many politicians lie every day of the week as do businessmen. As Prince Andrew never taken a bung? Did Philip Green not intentionally rob his company blind? Unfortunately, unless you have 100% evidence, it's all here say. Corbyn made a statement about getting free university fees and thousands of gullible students fell for it! Did he do any wrong - not legally perhaps, but where was the money going to come from? Then again all those young kids who got sucked in, would not have asked the money question, or cared less!

Your number 2 - I agree with but on a vote like this which was done and dusted, it would be highly dangerous to have a re vote. Many of my family voted to remain, but their view is - there can be no vote again otherwise democracy will be shot! Same in the USA - there can be no re vote unless evidence comes to light so Trump will be impeached. The fact, he's a serial shagger, and distorted the truth ( so they say ), and the minority who wanted Clinton to win, is irrelevant.

Personally, I would get rid of May and if we are going out, then go out without all this dilly dallying around and start calling the shots. In terms of negotiation, almost half of the UK goods went to the EU - why would this change, if we were outside of the EU? Other EU countries are starting to break ranks now, and the UK won't be the last country to leave. Perhaps, if the EU had different country tiers, and did something about non EU immigration, then many would not be so quick to condemn.

Am I wrong? Safety legislation and regulations are updated constantly - 2 years ago the rules on high rise cladding was very different to now because of Grenfall. If you sign a legal document that you can reverse 2 years down the line because you believe you are worse off, would you?

Number 3, very serious. If those lies swung 2% of the vote can you honestly say we have a mandate for Brexit? Obviously we'll never know, but I do know the whole referendum campaign on both sides were a joke and full of misinformation.

Corbyn has nothing to do with the Referendum. But as I've said previously, you can't attack his tuition fee plans because he hasn't implemented it. Not only that, Labour's manifesto was costed and the Tories wasn't. Do you question where the Tories got the cash for the DUP?

How can democracy be shot by having a democratic vote now we've both confirmed people are more knowledgeable now? What you're advocating is more akin to dictatorship. There are so many holes in the Leave camp which is why we are in this mess.

In terms of our exports, yes - 44% go to the EU. They are by far our largest trading partner. This would absolutely change, because we are putting in place trading barriers to trade with them. Supply chains will be disrupted and prices will go up come March 2019. I don't think anyone can argue this point.

"Perhaps if the EU did something about Non EU immigration"
I'm not too hot on this, but I do know the EU have announced this week they are sending 10,000 border guards to help prevent Non EU immigration. Guess that isn't reported by our gutter press though is it...

[holmleighchris]

I agree with plenty of that Al.
I voted to stay in. My wife countered that with an out vote!
I accept the decision reached and would not welcome a second vote. The people spoke and that should be the end of it.
I'm sure both sides tried to lead the voters to their camp with some dodgy info.

[mickd1961]

Christ is this thread still going on……..i hadn't sprouted pubic hair when this started and now it looks like a burst mattress!

The "Remain" zealots just don't get it……..they lost and there will be no second vote.

The pathetic May will stitch us up to a deal that will leave you Remainers feeling like you've never left because we won't.

We'll be "out" in an "in" sort of way but crippled by the final deal.

Now i've sorted it out for you all can you padlock this thread please.

You're absolutely welcome……no problem at all folks…..my pleasure!