O/T The blind leading the blind.

[KINDERSCOUT]

Following 40 years of pressure from a group of 45 right wing Tory extremists our worst ever Prime Minister Cameron agreed to a referendum regarding our EU membership. He ruled the referendum would be "after the next election" assuming Labour would win it according to the opinion polls and that would get him off the hook. When the Tories won it he set up a one question referendum assuming like most other pundits Remain would win it so made no preparations for the outcome. Before the vote we were subjected to a inane period of propaganda from both sides which was long on rhetoric and short on information. The three Tory propaganda papers, the Sun Mail and Telegraph (all owned by rich powerful owners) joined in the orgy of claptrap. When it came to the vote I, and I suspect many others had little idea what the implications would be of a leave vote. I voted remain on my limited knowledge because the EU has kept Europe free of war since WW 11 and it would eliminate our fawning over a dubious US Presidents (particularly the man with the orange face and the comb over) and being involved with their foreign policy. Please no more Iraqs and Afghanistans.
After the result of the referendum the 45 right wing extremists morphed into the European Research Group and some of them became Cabinet members involved with our negotiations with the EU. The last two years have been a shambles with a government which spends more time negotiating with itself than with the EU. For me personally this period and the debate has enabled me to learn more about the implications of our decision and it has become increasingly obvious that leaving the EU is going to be bad for our economy and all those employed in it. The only policies we have on the table is Mays half in half out policy or crashing out which would be a disaster. Meanwhlie the 45
right-wingers have not produced any policies for the countries future. European Research Group indeed, more like pretensious garbage.

[Exiletyke]

That's pretentious

[red flagged]

That's pretentious

XD

[yorkshireborn]

ere we go again

[Exiletyke]

ere we go again

Start a thread yourself then

[yorkshireborn]

ok

[anstonred]

Following 40 years of pressure from a group of 45 right wing Tory extremists our worst ever Prime Minister Cameron agreed to a referendum regarding our EU membership. He ruled the referendum would be "after the next election" assuming Labour would win it according to the opinion polls and that would get him off the hook. When the Tories won it he set up a one question referendum assuming like most other pundits Remain would win it so made no preparations for the outcome. Before the vote we were subjected to a inane period of propaganda from both sides which was long on rhetoric and short on information. The three Tory propaganda papers, the Sun Mail and Telegraph (all owned by rich powerful owners) joined in the orgy of claptrap. When it came to the vote I, and I suspect many others had little idea what the implications would be of a leave vote. I voted remain on my limited knowledge because the EU has kept Europe free of war since WW 11 and it would eliminate our fawning over a dubious US Presidents (particularly the man with the orange face and the comb over) and being involved with their foreign policy. Please no more Iraqs and Afghanistans.
After the result of the referendum the 45 right wing extremists morphed into the European Research Group and some of them became Cabinet members involved with our negotiations with the EU. The last two years have been a shambles with a government which spends more time negotiating with itself than with the EU. For me personally this period and the debate has enabled me to learn more about the implications of our decision and it has become increasingly obvious that leaving the EU is going to be bad for our economy and all those employed in it. The only policies we have on the table is Mays half in half out policy or crashing out which would be a disaster. Meanwhlie the 45
right-wingers have not produced any policies for the countries future. European Research Group indeed, more like pretensious garbage.

I agree, Kinder - in my opinion, the ERG are totally in it for themselves!

[animallittle3]

Not going very well is it .

I think a second referendum could happen , just my opinion .

[Ponte_Steve24]

Not going very well is it .

I think a second referendum could happen , just my opinion .

If at first you don't succeed moan, moan and bleat until you do. Some democracy that would be XD

[KINDERSCOUT]

If at first you don't succeed moan, moan and bleat until you do. Some democracy that would be XD
If you think something is wrong surely its best to question it before it happens not just sit back in a sea of apathy. Last time we did that was the decision to go to war with Iraq. That apathetic decision wrecked a country, cost thousands offlives and left us with a legacy of terroism.

[KerrAvon]

Not going very well is it .

I think a second referendum could happen , just my opinion .It’s gone as well as it was ever going to go. The EU holds all the cards in the negotiations and the likelihood is that any deal that the EU would agree to would be inferior to membership. The British position, in the meantime, was fragmented because no two MPs can agree on what Brexit means save, perhaps, for those who want a ‘no deal outcome.

As for a further referendum, how is that going to come about? It would be political suicide for anyone other than the Lib Dems to press for such an outcome. Labour doesn’t seem to have noticed, however; a further referendum may or may not be Labour policy, depending upon whether you believe Starmer or McDonnell. Chairman Corbett appears to have no particular opinion on the subject.

Irrespective of Labour’s position, I doubt whether there would be a Parliamentary majority for a further referendum bill to pass.

[KerrAvon]

If at first you don't succeed moan, moan and bleat until you do. Some democracy that would be XD

It would be the third referendum. The one in 1975 came out in favour of remaining in, the second, in 2016, for leaving.

How can asking the country to vote again on the issue now that the fantasy versions of Brexit have been outed be a bad outcome for democracy?

[Exiletyke]

....

[Ponte_Steve24]

It would be the third referendum. The one in 1975 came out in favour of remaining in, the second, in 2016, for leaving.

How can asking the country to vote again on the issue now that the fantasy versions of Brexit have been outed be a bad outcome for democracy?

Possibly because it is going against the will of the people that won the vote and devaluing their reasons for voting out. Let's keep voting til we get our own way is the message being conveyed to me by the "remoaners".

[KerrAvon]

What about going against the will of the people who voted remain in 1975?

And don't you think that people now have a better understanding of the issues than they did in 2016? The notion that we could simply say 'sithi' before carrying on just as we had before, but without making payments to the EU or being bound by the decisions of the ECJ is just a distant memory isn't it?

I would stress that I don't want another vote