Pierce Bird

[Elite_Pie]

I am desparately trying to look for positives tonight, and the emergence of this lad is probably the best I can find. For me he was second only to CMS as MOM today, and has never looked out of his depth since he was given his chance.

I predict he will be a player of the season contender next season.

[optipez]

I thought exactly the same, second best player today for us. Always seems to have a bit of time, strong and brave enough not to just hoof it.

[Freeman25]

For me he was second only to CMS as MOM today

Said exactly the same to my uncle during the game and he replied that we probably wouldn't be able to hang on to him for long, I hope you're right and he really kicks on for us next season (and stays) regardless of what league we're in, he's already came a long way in a short time.

[durhampie]

Said exactly the same to my uncle during the game and he replied that we probably wouldn't be able to hang on to him for long, I hope you're right and he really kicks on for us next season (and stays) regardless of what league we're in, he's already came a long way in a short time.

He should have played more games than he did. Also, there is no way that Barclay is a better player

[St Kitts Magpie]

He should have played more games than he did. Also, there is no way that Barclay is a better player

Agreed. and really only playing because Duffy injured and Barclay suspended..

[slack_pie]

Agreed, Bird has looked the part whenever he has played. He also seems to have a decent left foot and can pick a pass. The one positive of getting relegated is that some of our younger players might have the chance to get more game time - players like Bird, Osborne, and Crawford. Perhaps watching hungry, local lads taking pride in the shirt in the National League will be better than watching a bunch of mercenaries on their final pay day in L2.

Also, the fact we have Rose and O'Brien singed up for next season (assuming we hold on to them) is promising.

[Robertomac]

He should have played more games than he did. Also, there is no way that Barclay is a better player

My thoughts are the same. Bird has looked class and composed every time I've seen him so why was he dropped and missed so many games?

[jonnyt1]

Was always a good player at Dunkirk when my lad used to play against him.

He’s really impressed me wearing the black and white and in my opinion is the only bright thing this season.

However it won’t surprise me if another league 2 or even league 1 club wants him in the summer.

[sidders]

Agreed, Bird has looked the part whenever he has played. He also seems to have a decent left foot and can pick a pass. The one positive of getting relegated is that some of our younger players might have the chance to get more game time - players like Bird, Osborne, and Crawford. Perhaps watching hungry, local lads taking pride in the shirt in the National League will be better than watching a bunch of mercenaries on their final pay day in L2.

Also, the fact we have Rose and O'Brien singed up for next season (assuming we hold on to them) is promising.

Which bugger has been careless with a flame thrower in the dressing room, Slacky?

[maddogslater]

He should have played more games than he did. Also, there is no way that Barclay is a better player

Agreed, thought Stubbs was second for MOM.

[Elite_Pie]

Which bugger has been careless with a flame thrower in the dressing room, Slacky?

Maybe Ardley overdid the hair dryer roasting at half time.

[McCullochisGod]

Maybe Ardley overdid the hair dryer roasting at half time.

Amazing what happens when you give youth a chance isn't it. Good luck to Pierce. IMO there have been better players with potential released over the last couple of seasons that were never given the chance by short sighted managers.

[Dunce]

Very impressed by this lad. Cool, calm and does the basics well. Lets hope the next guy in charge gives him a fair crack of the whip. Hes certainly ready for the main stage now.

[countygump]

He should have played more games than he did. Also, there is no way that Barclay is a better player

This. All the defenders we have on our books are more capable than the 2 young kids that Ardley signed. We all agreed months ago it was the cover in front of them that was lacking. Since the tranny window we have had that in Mitch, O'Brien and Doylie.

[drillerpie]

This. All the defenders we have on our books are more capable than the 2 young kids that Ardley signed.

I disagree, Stubbs looks a real find.

Plus if you go back to last November or December the people saying Duffy and Brisley were good defenders who are just in need of a bit of cover were few and far between.

[OP67]

Be interesting to see what the new owners intent will be. Will they invest the money saved from the cut price sale due to relegation and keep players like Bird, Osborne and Etete. Or will they bank the money and cash in?

I'd hope they'd invest for an instant return to the Football League

[Freeman25]

I disagree, Stubbs looks a real find.

Yeah I think Stubbs looks a class above, I'd be more than happy to see him back next season if we stay up


Be interesting to see what the new owners intent will be. Will they invest the money saved from the cut price sale due to relegation and keep players like Bird, Osborne and Etete. Or will they bank the money and cash in?

I'd hope they'd invest for an instant return to the Football League

The general consensus on Etete is that we've already agreed a deal with Tottenham for him and he'll leave when the window opens.

[jackal2]

Be interesting to see what the new owners intent will be. Will they invest the money saved from the cut price sale due to relegation and keep players like Bird, Osborne and Etete. Or will they bank the money and cash in?

I'd hope they'd invest for an instant return to the Football League

Perhaps both!

Notts County's greatest achievements in recent decades under Sirrel, Warnock and Allardyce came from a combination of shrewd (rather than 'big') signings and the active development of young players (i.e. actually giving them game time). We seem to have stopped doing both during the Trew and Hardy eras, instead attempting to take shortcuts by spending big money on players who rarely deliver good value.

The biggest concern for me would be that the new owners would come in splashing the cash based on an expectation of instant success, because the logical continuation of that mindset is to sack the manager (whoever they choose) if results aren't instant, which would set us off again on the same course that has led us to where we are now.

I would prefer the new owners to take a more considered, 'softly, softly' approach, investing smaller amounts of money wisely and consistently, and understanding that the creation of a winning team is a gradual building process, not a case of 'instant fix'. This club desperately needs stability on the pitch and on it.

[Elite_Pie]

IMO there have been better players with potential released over the last couple of seasons that were never given the chance by short sighted managers.

But all the youth players we have released have ended up at lower non-league clubs! That suggests the correct decisions were made, but we're not very good at recruiting talented kids.

[Freeman25]

The replay of the goal on the Notts twitter account has mugged him right off, there's no chance it was his, it was either an own goal or Stubbs, Bird isn't even trying to head it XD

[SwalePie]

The replay of the goal on the Notts twitter account has mugged him right off, there's no chance it was his, it was either an own goal or Stubbs, Bird isn't even trying to head it XD

I noticed it had been officially credited as an own goal

[McCullochisGod]

But all the youth players we have released have ended up at lower non-league clubs! That suggests the correct decisions were made, but we're not very good at recruiting talented kids.

Talking out of your arse again. They will end up at non league clubs when released at 18 from a club 90th to 92nd in the league, which is not a fault of their's. If they were given a chance to develop like Bird I believe they would have done, I always thought he lacked pace when I saw him play at Highfields. Kennedy-Williams has far more ability than Bird but is he ever given a chance NO! As for bad recruitment. Jack Bearne just won an FA Youth Cup winners medal with Liverpool (£170,000) Dong Da He £350,000. The correct decisions have never been made at the club in years, that's why we are on our way out. God forbid!

[slack_pie]

Talking out of your arse again. They will end up at non league clubs when released at 18 from a club 90th to 92nd in the league, which is not a fault of their's. If they were given a chance to develop like Bird I believe they would have done, I always thought he lacked pace when I saw him play at Highfields. Kennedy-Williams has far more ability than Bird but is he ever given a chance NO! As for bad recruitment. Jack Bearne just won an FA Youth Cup winners medal with Liverpool (£170,000) Dong Da He £350,000. The correct decisions have never been made at the club in years, that's why we are on our way out. God forbid!

Are you saying we should have rejected six-figure bides for untested youngsters instead?

[DelroyFacey22]

Hardy was pretty pissed off with the way Jack Bearne was sold to Liverpool so I'm not even sure why you bring him up, it's not like anyone could have done anything different with him when the owner seemed to just be cashing at the last minute before leaving (which seems to be happening again now with Etete). And what would you have done differently with Dongda? Once a Chinese owned Premier league club comes knocking and he's not signed a pro deal or played a single game for us they basically had us by the gonads and we should be happy with whatever we got out of that.

[McCullochisGod]

Hardy was pretty pissed off with the way Jack Bearne was sold to Liverpool so I'm not even sure why you bring him up, it's not like anyone could have done anything different with him when the owner seemed to just be cashing at the last minute before leaving (which seems to be happening again now with Etete). And what would you have done differently with Dongda? Once a Chinese owned Premier league club comes knocking and he's not signed a pro deal or played a single game for us they basically had us by the gonads and we should be happy with whatever we got out of that.

I'm not being critical of selling young players, it will happen and you can't stop it. I'm questioning Elites statement about recruitment of young players and giving young players a chance. We have made over £500,000 on two young players, more no doubt when Etete goes.

[Elite_Pie]

I'm not being critical of selling young players, it will happen and you can't stop it. I'm questioning Elites statement about recruitment of young players and giving young players a chance. We have made over £500,000 on two young players, more no doubt when Etete goes.

My statement was more about your claim that we have wrongly released good youth team players. We haven't. You've named a few of these 'mistakes', and if you look into it you are clearly talking bollox. Here's a few that we've released who you claim weren't given a chance, and where they have played since we released them:

Colby Bishop - Gloucester City, Worcester City, Boston United, Leamington.
Fabien Spiess - Lewes, Corby Town, Torquay United, Alfreton Town, Boston United, Nantwich Town.
Greg Tempest - Ilkeston Town, Boston United, Lincoln City, Nuneaton town, Gainsborough Trinity, Basford United, Matlock Town.
Romello Nangle - Whitehawk.
Nathan Fox - Corby Town, Kettering Town, Rugby Town, Stamford, Slough Town.
Jordan Richards - Boston United, Sligo Rovers, Gainsborough Trinity, King's Lynn Town.

This info is from wiki, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most people will get the picture. It wasn't a mistake to release them, they were non-league journeymen who just weren't good enough to play league football.

[Woodsetts_Pie]

It wasn't a mistake to release them, they were non-league journeymen who just weren't good enough to play league football.

This point has been debated elsewhere on here, and my friend and I (Hi Des!!) were debating this pre the MKD match. I agree with you that if they clearly aren't going to make it then release them. But as was posted earlier, if you have never made it at L1/L2 with us (i.e. played 3 sub appearances or similar) then your career afterwards is not likely to be upwards of here, it's more likely to be Gainsborough, Boston, Nuneaton etc.

It's equally valid to say also that these players and many more like them never had a chance to develop here, because we signed worldbeaters like Ben Burgess (to name but one) instead.

Our "Youth system" has been a pointless excercise for years now, as the only player to come through and play more than a handful of games was Hayden Hollis. Thankfully, Pierce Bird looks to be one that bucks the trend -at long last, and if we keep hold of him of course. Who can tell with the way the club is run lately.

[legs77]

I can see both sides to this I know quite a few of them are just not good enough but as MIG says some have just not been given a chance at all and are being written off as not good enough as they can't get in this side or too lightweight (Mata / Silva anyone ?)

I remember I was listening to Frank Mclintock one Saturday and he said he can remember this reserve player training with the first team and he didn't rate him at all & he got selected in a game for Arsenal at Highbury he then went on to say he was wrong as the kid went onto have a blinder/future at the club and the atmosphere/crowd inspired him.

What i'm saying is you never know how a player will react its sink or swim but I can tell you this when we signed Enoch I remember saying on here he'd be useless before he kicked a ball I was told trail by wikipedia which is true but my gut feeling is when all these clubs dont keep you for a year they aren't all going to be wrong.

I haven't liked the way we have ran this club for a while we hardly ever play our own youth players as managers have no b*lls to do so, we have released the likes of Thompson/Rodman who are now both playing regular league one football and also Virtue who has been coached at Liverpool took stick funny how he is getting good reviews at Blackpool who guess what are a league soon to be two leagues above us !!

[Elite_Pie]

This point has been debated elsewhere on here, and my friend and I (Hi Des!!) were debating this pre the MKD match. I agree with you that if they clearly aren't going to make it then release them. But as was posted earlier, if you have never made it at L1/L2 with us (i.e. played 3 sub appearances or similar) then your career afterwards is not likely to be upwards of here, it's more likely to be Gainsborough, Boston, Nuneaton etc.

So me, you and Des are in agreement on this one.


It's equally valid to say also that these players and many more like them never had a chance to develop here, because we signed worldbeaters like Ben Burgess (to name but one) instead.

I don't really get this. So are you saying that if we had thrown in kids instead of Ben Burgess, they would have somehow magically 'developed' into first team regulars? Dropping a division or two isn't the end of a career, if the ability is there then the player will rise back up, but none have.


Our "Youth system" has been a pointless excercise for years now, as the only player to come through and play more than a handful of games was Hayden Hollis. Thankfully, Pierce Bird looks to be one that bucks the trend -at long last, and if we keep hold of him of course. Who can tell with the way the club is run lately.

Don't forget Curtis Thompson, who does look like a poor decision to release but he wasn't a youth team player when we did. The youth system may well be a pointless exercise, because the fixed fees mean that top level clubs can pick up 20 promising kids for peanuts (to them) like Bearne, Dongda He and Etete in the hope that one of them makes it. It depends whether the fees we get from selling them justifies running a scheme that doesn't give us much reward.

[Elite_Pie]

I can see both sides to this I know quite a few of them are just not good enough but as MIG says some have just not been given a chance at all and are being written off as not good enough as they can't get in this side or too lightweight (Mata / Silva anyone ?)

Maybe, but hindsight will give the answer. If we release kids that subsequently go on to play at our level above then we have made a mistake. If they end up in non-league then we must have got the decision right.

Apart from maybe Luther Wildin, we appear to have got it spot on.

[legs77]

Maybe, but hindsight will give the answer. If we release kids that subsequently go on to play at our level above then we have made a mistake. If they end up in non-league then we must have got the decision right.

Apart from maybe Luther Wildin, we appear to have got it spot on.

I know what you mean but its not always as black & white as that.

Bird is a prime example of this he played well at Lincoln and he has only now getting games as nobody else is left to play centre back he will be kept on now if we can hang onto him.

i'd imagine if you were someone like Osbourne you would be pretty annoyed the likes of Saunders/Hodge who were both awful got more minutes than you but only cos daddy was famous.

[McCullochisGod]

So me, you and Des are in agreement on this one.



I don't really get this. So are you saying that if we had thrown in kids instead of Ben Burgess, they would have somehow magically 'developed' into first team regulars? Dropping a division or two isn't the end of a career, if the ability is there then the player will rise back up, but none have.



Don't forget Curtis Thompson, who does look like a poor decision to release but he wasn't a youth team player when we did. The youth system may well be a pointless exercise, because the fixed fees mean that top level clubs can pick up 20 promising kids for peanuts (to them) like Bearne, Dongda He and Etete in the hope that one of them makes it. It depends whether the fees we get from selling them justifies running a scheme that doesn't give us much reward.

The FOOTBALL LEAGUE fund the scheme or 80% of it.

[McCullochisGod]

Maybe, but hindsight will give the answer. If we release kids that subsequently go on to play at our level above then we have made a mistake. If they end up in non-league then we must have got the decision right.

Apart from maybe Luther Wildin, we appear to have got it spot on.

We will be in Non League next season, will that change your mind then? Being the expert that you are.

[slack_pie]

I'm not being critical of selling young players, it will happen and you can't stop it. I'm questioning Elites statement about recruitment of young players and giving young players a chance. We have made over £500,000 on two young players, more no doubt when Etete goes.

One thing I don't get is that whenever Notts seem to get a talented youngster on their books, they are snapped up by a Prem team for an undisclosed fee. Granted, this fee is often large enough to make a real difference to the club, but still, the youngster never really makes an impact on the Notts first team.

Meanwhile, over the river, Forest have one of the best academies in the land, and loads of their talented youngsters (or which there are many) stick around long enough to make an impact on the first team. They are then sold for multiple millions.

Given that the average Forest starlet is likely to have more potential than the average Notts starlet, why don't Prem clubs swoop in for them when they are 17? You'd think clubs like Liverpool and Wolves would just hoover up their young talent on the off chance one of them makes it. But instead, they end up playing several seasons for the first team before leaving. Am I missing something?

As great as it is to get six-figure fees for our youth products, it would be even better if they played a few seasons for the club before going for a larger amount, like they used to back in the 90s.

[Woodsetts_Pie]

Lets lighten the mood a little with a song that is unlikely to be heard from the Kop anytime soon.....

Altogether now

"He's one of our own, He's one of our OWN"
"(Insert random name here), He's one of our own"

[McCullochisGod]

My statement was more about your claim that we have wrongly released good youth team players. We haven't. You've named a few of these 'mistakes', and if you look into it you are clearly talking bollox. Here's a few that we've released who you claim weren't given a chance, and where they have played since we released them:

Colby Bishop - Gloucester City, Worcester City, Boston United, Leamington.
Fabien Spiess - Lewes, Corby Town, Torquay United, Alfreton Town, Boston United, Nantwich Town.
Greg Tempest - Ilkeston Town, Boston United, Lincoln City, Nuneaton town, Gainsborough Trinity, Basford United, Matlock Town.
Romello Nangle - Whitehawk.
Nathan Fox - Corby Town, Kettering Town, Rugby Town, Stamford, Slough Town.
Jordan Richards - Boston United, Sligo Rovers, Gainsborough Trinity, King's Lynn Town.

This info is from wiki, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most people will get the picture. It wasn't a mistake to release them, they were non-league journeymen who just weren't good enough to play league football.

Spiess, Tempest, Hollis and Thompson all played in a team that survived in League 1 not in a team grovelling at the foot of League 2? Were they given enough time to develop? IMO No. As for coming back into League football, some of them don't want to, they are happy in their careers and playing non-league football.

[McCullochisGod]

One thing I don't get is that whenever Notts seem to get a talented youngster on their books, they are snapped up by a Prem team for an undisclosed fee. Granted, this fee is often large enough to make a real difference to the club, but still, the youngster never really makes an impact on the Notts first team.

Meanwhile, over the river, Forest have one of the best academies in the land, and loads of their talented youngsters (or which there are many) stick around long enough to make an impact on the first team. They are then sold for multiple millions.

Given that the average Forest starlet is likely to have more potential than the average Notts starlet, why don't Prem clubs swoop in for them when they are 17? You'd think clubs like Liverpool and Wolves would just hoover up their young talent on the off chance one of them makes it. But instead, they end up playing several seasons for the first team before leaving. Am I missing something?

As great as it is to get six-figure fees for our youth products, it would be even better if they played a few seasons for the club before going for a larger amount, like they used to back in the 90s.

Exactly, they are given a chance to develop over the river. Not rocket science is it. Unfortunately we have been blessed with managers who have no idea how to run a club let alone coach a team.

[DelroyFacey22]

Spiess, Tempest, Hollis and Thompson all played in a team that survived in League 1 not in a team grovelling at the foot of League 2? Were they given enough time to develop? IMO No. As for coming back into League football, some of them don't want to, they are happy in their careers and playing non-league football.

I'd say players like Spiess, Tempest, Hollis and Thompson made the transition from "youth" to mens football as even if they weren't starting every week they were very often in the first team squad (Hollis and Thompson were certainly both not youth team players when they left), from that point on the problem (if there is one) is the managers, not the ownership or youth system.

I actually thought Richards, when he played under Sheridan, looked like a better player than Curtis Thompson and look where the two have ended up... I do think there is some truth that opportunity is one of the most important things that will develop a player, seeing if they will sink or swim when given a chance and in another world it could easily be Richards playing League One football with Wycombe.

When Southampton climbed up the leagues I bet there weren't many people that thought some of their players were Premiership (or international standard) when they were in the lower leagues, likewise with some of the players that have been with Bournemouth

[DelroyFacey22]

Exactly, they are given a chance to develop over the river. Not rocket science is it. Unfortunately we have been blessed with managers who have no idea how to run a club let alone coach a team.

There is a slight difference in that Forest can afford to hold off interest whereas we're like a homeless person that found a nice watch on the street and would be willing to sell it for a pair of socks only to later find out it was a rolex, it's much easier for teams to hang on to their players the higher up the leagues you get.

[bridpie78]

There is a slight difference in that Forest can afford to hold off interest whereas we're like a homeless person that found a nice watch on the street and would be willing to sell it for a pair of socks only to later find out it was a rolex, it's much easier for teams to hang on to their players the higher up the leagues you get.

the way to compete with bigger clubs with regard to holding on to young talent is to give them first team football, id rather we played some local youngsters and have a steady season mid table while they learn their trade playing for us and potentially build their transfer value for the future than loan in youngsters (like virtue) and let our own decent prospects leave for next to nothing before they even get a game.

[slack_pie]

There is a slight difference in that Forest can afford to hold off interest whereas we're like a homeless person that found a nice watch on the street and would be willing to sell it for a pair of socks only to later find out it was a rolex, it's much easier for teams to hang on to their players the higher up the leagues you get.

Haha, so true.

[Elite_Pie]

We will be in Non League next season, will that change your mind then? Being the expert that you are.

No. What will change my mind is if the youth players we release go on to play at our level or above.

When that happens, we will have got it wrong.

[Elite_Pie]

the way to compete with bigger clubs with regard to holding on to young talent is to give them first team football, id rather we played some local youngsters and have a steady season mid table while they learn their trade.

That sounds good in principle, but for it to work the young talent has to be good enough for league football. If their true level is the likes of Matlock Town, they wouldn't get us to 'steady mid table'.

Does anyone seriously think that if we had stuck with (for example) Greg Tempest he would be a first team regular now?

[McCullochisGod]

That sounds good in principle, but for it to work the young talent has to be good enough for league football. If their true level is the likes of Matlock Town, they wouldn't get us to 'steady mid table'.

Does anyone seriously think that if we had stuck with (for example) Greg Tempest he would be a first team regular now?

Being the expert you are I would say yes he might. Curtis Thompson is at a better club than ours.

[Elite_Pie]

Being the expert you are I would say yes he might. Curtis Thompson is at a better club than ours.

So Greg Tempest would now be a League 2 regular if we had kept him, but since he left us, he's played for Ilkeston Town, Boston United, Lincoln City, Nuneaton Town, Gainsborough Trinity, Basford United and Matlock Town. That's almost as funny as your claims that Fabien Spiess is a quality goalkeeper!

I can maybe forgive you that one though, as goalkeeping probably isn't your area of expertise.

[MagpieMike]

the way to compete with bigger clubs with regard to holding on to young talent is to give them first team football, id rather we played some local youngsters and have a steady season mid table while they learn their trade playing for us and potentially build their transfer value for the future than loan in youngsters (like virtue) and let our own decent prospects leave for next to nothing before they even get a game.

This. I was at Southend away when Tommy and Drapes made their senior debuts, seems a very long time ago. Would they be given a chance today?

It may seem obvious, but the first thing we need is effective scouting at youth level to spot the future Tommy and Drapes, then we need to have a decent youth system to develop them, and a manager who is prepared to play them when they are ready for the first team. Think we've forgotten just how good our youth system once was. Mick Walker was excellent at developing young players.

[jonnyt1]

Unfortunately the EFL sold out to the PL regarding the youth system.

We now get nearly £500k per year for the privilege of allowing PL clubs to take players on an agreed formula that includes little up front and the rest based on various appearances.

The days of selling youth players for £200,000 or even £1m have gone as they can literally walk into the higher graded academies without us being in agreement.

We have no say unless they have signed professional terms.

Upon relegation we lose that funding and another £450,000 plus from the EFL. That’s why we will have to cut the wage bill by something like 75%. It’s not going to be pretty.

In my opinion we shouldn’t have a youth system as it’s not viable since the PL sell out.

[DelroyFacey22]

So Greg Tempest would now be a League 2 regular if we had kept him, but since he left us, he's played for Ilkeston Town, Boston United, Lincoln City, Nuneaton Town, Gainsborough Trinity, Basford United and Matlock Town. That's almost as funny as your claims that Fabien Spiess is a quality goalkeeper!

I can maybe forgive you that one though, as goalkeeping probably isn't your area of expertise.

I saw Tempest play in a friendly against someone like Kettering in a pre season game and he was god awful, he didn't look like he'd been out drinking the night before, he looked like he was playing drunk, it was comically bad.

A big thing to note is that if a young player is good enough when they get given some playing time, they need to make a difference, can anyone remember the last Notts youth team player that came into the side and actually made a positive impact? Richards and Thompson are the only ones that come close, the rest, like Hollis, Tempest, Nangle, Bishop, Howes, Gibson and even Etete (though he still has time obviously) have came into poor sides due to a lack of other options, not done a great deal or showed much and then gone back into hiding. Hollis being the odd one out in that list but he some how managed to stay in the side due to a lack of options.

[slack_pie]

I saw Tempest play in a friendly against someone like Kettering in a pre season game and he was god awful, he didn't look like he'd been out drinking the night before, he looked like he was playing drunk, it was comically bad.

A big thing to note is that if a young player is good enough when they get given some playing time, they need to make a difference, can anyone remember the last Notts youth team player that came into the side and actually made a positive impact? Richards and Thompson are the only ones that come close, the rest, like Hollis, Tempest, Nangle, Bishop, Howes, Gibson and even Etete (though he still has time obviously) have came into poor sides due to a lack of other options, not done a great deal or showed much and then gone back into hiding. Hollis being the odd one out in that list but he some how managed to stay in the side due to a lack of options.

The last youth team player to make a real impact on the first team was Kelvin Wilson, and that must be going back over 15 years now. He was a class act from the start and didn't really need bedding in.

Since then, Thompson and Hollis are the only two who made a decent number of appearances. Hollis, as you say, stayed longer than he probably should have, simply because he was a cheap option as backup. Curtis should have been given more opportunities, and really should still be playing for us.

None of the others ever made more than a handful of appearances really. So yeah, one quality player, one decent player, and one below-average player in the best part of two decades. Not great, is it.

Going back before Kelvin there were players like Richard Holmes and Michael Brough, but even at the time it was clear that they weren't going to make it.

[McCullochisGod]

So Greg Tempest would now be a League 2 regular if we had kept him, but since he left us, he's played for Ilkeston Town, Boston United, Lincoln City, Nuneaton Town, Gainsborough Trinity, Basford United and Matlock Town. That's almost as funny as your claims that Fabien Spiess is a quality goalkeeper!

I can maybe forgive you that one though, as goalkeeping probably isn't your area of expertise.

You are finally correct on one thing. Goalkeeping isn't my area of expertise, what is yours

[McCullochisGod]

Unfortunately the EFL sold out to the PL regarding the youth system.

We now get nearly £500k per year for the privilege of allowing PL clubs to take players on an agreed formula that includes little up front and the rest based on various appearances.

The days of selling youth players for £200,000 or even £1m have gone as they can literally walk into the higher graded academies without us being in agreement.

We have no say unless they have signed professional terms.

Upon relegation we lose that funding and another £450,000 plus from the EFL. That’s why we will have to cut the wage bill by something like 75%. It’s not going to be pretty.

In my opinion we shouldn’t have a youth system as it’s not viable since the PL sell out.

So how did we get £170,000 for Bearne and £350,000 for Dong Da He? We will also get the EFL Academy money for one season if relegated.

[Elite_Pie]

You are finally correct on one thing. Goalkeeping isn't my area of expertise, what is yours

Putting a question mark when I ask a question.

[forwardmagpie]

Putting a question mark when I ask a question.

Even in the case of Cyril Smith when you weren’t really asking a question. 😏

[McCullochisGod]

Putting a question mark when I ask a question.

I thought that was about as far as it stretched!