O/T The Traitor May

[TheBlackHorse]

... anyone else despise the traitorous establishment patsy May ... who tried to deliver Brexit in name only ... and who will stand there on the 6th June representing us to the world on the anniversary of one of the great events in world history.

[frenchmagpie]

She's a hero. Single-handedly destroyed the Tory party and maybe even saved you mugs from the Brexit you fell for. What's not to love.

[jackal2]

... anyone else despise the traitorous establishment patsy May ... who tried to deliver Brexit in name only ... and who will stand there on the 6th June representing us to the world on the anniversary of one of the great events in world history.

I don't despise her, but I'm glad she's gone because she was a barrier to progress. She should have stepped down after the General Election, having manifestly failed to achieve her own stated objective of strengthening her hand to negotiate and deliver Brexit. Instead, she went into denial mode and soldiered on, trying to sneak through a deal that was never remotely acceptable, and reneging on her own mantra that "no deal is better than a bad deal".

[slack_pie]

She's a hero. Single-handedly destroyed the Tory party and maybe even saved you mugs from the Brexit you fell for. What's not to love.

Unlikely on both fronts. The OP will probably get his wish as Boris drives us off the cliff with no deal come October, and even as he ruins the country, a majority of idiots will think he's a great bloke and a bit of a character - I mean look at him, what a lovable rogue!

[JoePass]

Unlikely on both fronts. The OP will probably get his wish as Boris drives us off the cliff with no deal come October, and even as he ruins the country, a majority of idiots will think he's a great bloke and a bit of a character - I mean look at him, what a lovable rogue!


Miles better than that Marxist lover of our enemies, what a tramp.

[slack_pie]

Miles better than that Marxist lover of our enemies, what a tramp.

Actually, I think the official line is 'terrorist-loving marxist tramp.'

[jackal2]

The media keep using the line that Parliament "won't vote for a No Deal", which is irrelevant because they don't have to. No Deal is the default position and the only way for MPs to stop it is by actively voting for a deal or to revoke Article 50.

[downunderpie]

The media keep using the line that Parliament "won't vote for a No Deal", which is irrelevant because they don't have to. No Deal is the default position and the only way for MPs to stop it is by actively voting for a deal or to revoke Article 50.

Is correct.

[countygump]

Unlikely on both fronts. The OP will probably get his wish as Boris drives us off the cliff with no deal come October, and even as he ruins the country, a majority of idiots will think he's a great bloke and a bit of a character - I mean look at him, what a lovable rogue!

In truth, I've come to the conclusion it's the only way we will ever be able to leave. The democracy deniers will never vote for any 'deal' as they only want to remain in the EU and regardless of the terms, they will always find an excuse not to vote for it. Any 2nd referendum is just an excuse to have a re-run of the first, simply because they didn't get the outcome they wanted.

[SwalePie]

... anyone else despise the traitorous establishment patsy May ... who tried to deliver Brexit in name only ... and who will stand there on the 6th June representing us to the world on the anniversary of one of the great events in world history.

Can't say that I've ever met Mrs. May so I can't despise her I'm afraid. I've only seen her on telly etc. She was dealt an unplayable hand and duly lost the game although history may one day judge that her creation of this huge delay may just save things in the long term. IMHO this kind of sensationalist name calling is not helpful at such a crucial moment in our nation's history. It smacks of Trumpian transparent rabble rousing and I find it all a bit cringeworthy to be frank.

[Notsohumblepie]

She's a hero. Single-handedly destroyed the Tory party and maybe even saved you mugs from the Brexit you fell for. What's not to love.

Assuming that you get the outcome you dream of , the prospect of the EU having to welcome an angry batch of Brexit Party MEPs might well deliver a delicious irony

Your schadenfreude might rebound

[frenchmagpie]

Is correct.

Not in the short term. They can just keep agreeing extensions until the tena-brigade die off and the kids vote in a progressive government. Then you are correct.

[frenchmagpie]

Assuming that you get the outcome you dream of , the prospect of the EU having to welcome an angry batch of Brexit Party MEPs might well deliver a delicious irony

Your schadenfreude might rebound

I think you'll find their type has been there for a while. They are just treated with humour and ignored.

[Notsohumblepie]

Not in the short term. They can just keep agreeing extensions until the tena-brigade die off and the kids vote in a progressive government. Then you are correct.


I wouldn’t use that offensive ageist collective noun if I were you.

To quote Auric Goldfinger “Choose your next witticism carefully ”, you just slagged of around 80% of the Pavis Stand, and exhortations to die off might be realistic, but not be appreciated.

"The kids vote in a progressive government" Jordan Bardella perhaps ?

[countygump]

I wouldn’t use that offensive ageist collective noun if I were you.

To quote Auric Goldfinger “Choose your next witticism carefully ”, you just slagged of around 80% of the Pavis Stand, and exhortations to die off might be realistic, but not be appreciated.

"The kids vote in a progressive government" Jordan Bardella perhaps ?

It's nonsense anyway. As people get older, their views change, so the 'Tena brigade' is as self replenishing as the youth are.

[navypie]

I wouldn’t use that offensive ageist collective noun if I were you.

To quote Auric Goldfinger “Choose your next witticism carefully ”, you just slagged of around 80% of the Pavis Stand, and exhortations to die off might be realistic, but not be appreciated.

"The kids vote in a progressive government" Jordan Bardella perhaps ?

I wanted to google some of that but couldn't be arsed. As for frenchmagpie, I have no idea why he's so European.

[Elite_Pie]

Miles better than that Marxist lover of our enemies, what a tramp.

I agree with you that Boris Johnson is a tramp, but disagree with the rest of your post. It's hard to make Corbyn look smartly dressed, but he manages it. Boris will be popular among the rank and file Tory members, but he's hated by half of his own party in parliament. The Tory party is so deeply divided that it will take someone much cleverer than him to get any sort of unity.

Regarding Mrs May, it's hard to despise her because she tried her best to solve a really difficult puzzle. Her big problem was that she was basically incompetent. She only landed the top job because her rivals either stabbed each other in the back or dropped out.

She was a poor Prime Minister, but I doubt the next one will be any better.

[navypie]

I agree with you that Boris Johnson is a tramp, but disagree with the rest of your post. It's hard to make Corbyn look smartly dressed, but he manages it. Boris will be popular among the rank and file Tory members, but he's hated by half of his own party in parliament. The Tory party is so deeply divided that it will take someone much cleverer than him to get any sort of unity.

Regarding Mrs May, it's hard to despise her because she tried her best to solve a really difficult puzzle. Her big problem was that she was basically incompetent. She only landed the top job because her rivals either stabbed each other in the back or dropped out.

She was a poor Prime Minister, but I doubt the next one will be any better.

I could hug you.

[seriouspie]

Miles better than that Marxist lover of our enemies, what a tramp.

Wonder if he'll be at the 'D' day landings remembrance day wearing his anorak?

[navypie]

Wonder if he'll be at the 'D' day landings remembrance day wearing his anorak?

He won't be there. He will be to busy saying people like my grandad should have tried talking to Germans,

[Bohinen]

Wonder if he'll be at the 'D' day landings remembrance day wearing his anorak?

Do you have any medals?

Only my Dad won the DFC fighting in the war so people like you and I could be free to vote for wheover we choose to. Not to be told we are Marxists because we dare to vote Labour.

[seriouspie]

He won't be there. He will be to busy saying people like my grandad should have tried talking to Germans,

Very true Navy ....... and the young man from Sneinton who would have been my father in law ... who bought it on some Sicilian beach during operation Husky.

[seriouspie]

Do you have any medals?

Only my Dad won the DFC fighting in the war so people like you and I could be free to vote for wheover we choose to. Not to be told we are Marxists because we dare to vote Labour.

Good of your dad Bo, a brave lad. Was he Bomber or Fighter command? I'm certainly not calling all Labour voters Marxists, only those who admit to it.

[Trickytreesreds]

Wonder if he'll be at the 'D' day landings remembrance day wearing his anorak?

he'll probably be busy with wake arrangements and state funeral of Seamus McGrane.

Standing tall to a 21 gun Kalashnikov salute.

[seriouspie]

he'll probably be busy with wake arrangements and state funeral of Seamus McGrane.

Standing tall to a 21 gun Kalashnikov salute.

Don't forget the neck tilted to the left (naturally) and the broken toothed grin.

[navypie]

Do you have any medals?

Only my Dad won the DFC fighting in the war so people like you and I could be free to vote for wheover we choose to. Not to be told we are Marxists because we dare to vote Labour.

Medals. My granpaps got one at El Alamein and the battle of Caen.He was taken of the beachers at Dunkirk but lost his brother during the retreat. The sacrifice your dad and my grandfather made are the reason we have the right to choose.

[BigFatPie]

he'll probably be busy with wake arrangements and state funeral of Seamus McGrane.

Standing tall to a 21 gun Kalashnikov salute.

Well done for bringing up the IRA when the Brexit party had a pro IRA pro Warrington bombing pro killing kids candidate standing for them in the North West.

Still, will of the people and all that.

[sidders]

Miles better than that Marxist lover of our enemies, what a tramp.

It's such a binary world you inhabit, Suckerman.

[MancMagpie]

Haha Haha. When people call Labour voters Marxist it makes me laugh so hard.

Yeah, it's really Marxist to want a health system that works for poorer people. It's really Marxist to want schools to be less focused on business and number crunching. It's really Marxist to want the richest people to pay higher tax and contribute more instead of finding loopholes in off shore tax havens. This isn't Marxist, this is just effing HUMAN.

Stop comparing Labour or Corbyn to Marxism. They're totally different. Read up about it instead of spouting crap.

[BanjoPie]

He won't be there. He will be to busy saying people like my grandad should have tried talking to Germans,

If Corbyn was around during WW2 he would probably have been shot for treason

(sorry for agreeing with you Navy old chap)

[ivansneck]

If Corbyn was around during WW2 he would probably have been shot for treason

(sorry for agreeing with you Navy old chap)

Really? I thought it was the Tories who wanted to appease the Nazis and the left who stood (and fought) against fascism. Not that I am a liker or supporter of Corbyn myself.

[Trickytreesreds]

Really? I thought it was the Tories who wanted to appease the Nazis and the left who stood (and fought) against fascism. Not that I am a liker or supporter of Corbyn myself.

Part true.

The Tories knew that Britain was in no way prepared for war 1938(ish). Germany had been on a major rebuild for years.
To have acted prematurely was futile.

Chamberlains biggest mistake, was to take Hitler at face value and trust he had an agreement.
There is something to be said running your armed forces down to nothing.
Corbyn needs telling that. Or are we still being led down the guerrilla army route instead?

[Bohinen]

If Corbyn was around during WW2 he would probably have been shot for treason

(sorry for agreeing with you Navy old chap)


Is that right? But what did Navy do for his country. Did he make gravy under gunfire?

Now, my wife, who always happens to vote Labour and therefore is a traitor and a Marxist, never saw her grandad. He's in Davey Jones' locker, having perished on the HMS Hood in WWII along with a 1400 others. But Navy thinks the only people ever to fight for their country were right wing.

[Notsohumblepie]

Really? I thought it was the Tories who wanted to appease the Nazis and the left who stood (and fought) against fascism. Not that I am a liker or supporter of Corbyn myself.

Opposition from the UK far left to World War II was most vocal during the early part of World War II, and stronger still before the war started. The UK Communist Party actively opposed the war during the period of the Ribbentrop- Molotov pact, but then backed it after Germany invaded the Soviet Union.

The Labour Party were obviously a key ingredient in Hitler's defeat, particularly people like Ernie Bevin.

I suppose you have to decide which philosophy is most representative of the modern Labour party.

[Bohinen]

Good of your dad Bo, a brave lad. Was he Bomber or Fighter command? I'm certainly not calling all Labour voters Marxists, only those who admit to it.

Bomber command, a pilot. Did two tours, North Africa, then dropping 4,000 lb cookies on various German cities, mainly Berlin. The whole war survival rate was really low but he said the most dangerous part was when he was training new pilots.

[i961pie]

Haha Haha. When people call Labour voters Marxist it makes me laugh so hard.

Yeah, it's really Marxist to want a health system that works for poorer people. It's really Marxist to want schools to be less focused on business and number crunching. It's really Marxist to want the richest people to pay higher tax and contribute more instead of finding loopholes in off shore tax havens. This isn't Marxist, this is just effing

Stop comparing Labour or Corbyn to Marxism. They're totally different. Read up about it instead of spouting crap.

Please explain why traditional labour voters are turning away from the party in their thousands then.

[Notsohumblepie]

Haha Haha. When people call Labour voters Marxist it makes me laugh so hard.

Yeah, it's really Marxist to want a health system that works for poorer people. It's really Marxist to want schools to be less focused on business and number crunching. It's really Marxist to want the richest people to pay higher tax and contribute more instead of finding loopholes in off shore tax havens. This isn't Marxist, this is just effing HUMAN.

Stop comparing Labour or Corbyn to Marxism. They're totally different. Read up about it instead of spouting crap.

"To understand Jeremy Corbyn and his cohorts, you have to appreciate their obsession with the history of Marxist revolutions. They take their cues not from dead presidents, but Ho Chi Minh, Samora Machel and Fidel Castro"
( The Guardian)

[seriouspie]

Bomber command, a pilot. Did two tours, North Africa, then dropping 4,000 lb cookies on various German cities, mainly Berlin. The whole war survival rate was really low but he said the most dangerous part was when he was training new pilots.

Thanks Bo. Yes I can believe what he said.

[MancMagpie]

Please explain why traditional labour voters are turning away from the party in their thousands then.

They aren't. If there was a general election then labour would do well. People have only turned their back on them in the European elections because they don't have a clear remain policy. Most Labour voters I know voted Lib Dem or Green in the European elections as a protest vote, but said they would still vote for Labour in a general election.

[Elite_Pie]

They aren't. If there was a general election then labour would do well. People have only turned their back on them in the European elections because they don't have a clear remain policy. Most Labour voters I know voted Lib Dem or Green in the European elections as a protest vote, but said they would still vote for Labour in a general election.

The sad thing is that politics today is dominated by one thing and one thing only - the farce known as Brexit. Before this happened, you would decide your political affiliation based on things like health, education, the economy, the environment, defence, welfare etc. These things don't seem to matter any more, it's now all about leave or remain. As an example, there is a by-election taking place in Peterborough next week after the disgraced Labour MP was deservedly given the boot after a recall petition. It's a marginal seat that looks like being won by the Brexit party. I can see why people would vote for them in an EU election, but this is for a seat in parliament. The Brexit party don't have any policies on health, education, the economy, the environment, defence, welfare etc. So what are their supporters actually voting for?

The answer has to be Brexit, because nothing else seems to matter.

[Trickytreesreds]

The sad thing is that politics today is dominated by one thing and one thing only - the farce known as Brexit. Before this happened, you would decide your political affiliation based on things like health, education, the economy, the environment, defence, welfare etc. These things don't seem to matter any more, it's now all about leave or remain. As an example, there is a by-election taking place in Peterborough next week after the disgraced Labour MP was deservedly given the boot after a recall petition. It's a marginal seat that looks like being won by the Brexit party. I can see why people would vote for them in an EU election, but this is for a seat in parliament. The Brexit party don't have any policies on health, education, the economy, the environment, defence, welfare etc. So what are their supporters actually voting for?

The answer has to be Brexit, because nothing else seems to matter.

For once and once only. I'm going to agree with snob head.

The only thing I can say about the Brexit party vote on this seat.
It's what the politicians have created themselves. Their credibility has gone out the window. No one trusts them or believes them.

Manifesto's? Don't make me laugh.
Like Chamberlains Hitler pact. Not worth the paper it's written on.

Democracy is not about what MP's want. Folks were screaming that major decisions should be decided by them?
Really? I'd rather ask a goldfish. At least he knows what colour he is.

[Elite_Pie]

For once and once only. I'm going to agree with snob head.

In that case, please could you delete my post Swale. I don't know what came over me.

ps Please use my correct title in future. I'm not snob head, I'm Snobhead1, always with a capital 'S'.

[jackal2]

The sad thing is that politics today is dominated by one thing and one thing only - the farce known as Brexit. Before this happened, you would decide your political affiliation based on things like health, education, the economy, the environment, defence, welfare etc. These things don't seem to matter any more, it's now all about leave or remain. As an example, there is a by-election taking place in Peterborough next week after the disgraced Labour MP was deservedly given the boot after a recall petition. It's a marginal seat that looks like being won by the Brexit party. I can see why people would vote for them in an EU election, but this is for a seat in parliament. The Brexit party don't have any policies on health, education, the economy, the environment, defence, welfare etc. So what are their supporters actually voting for?

The answer has to be Brexit, because nothing else seems to matter.

Essentially you're right, although I've never been convinced that party manifestos serve much of purpose anyway, because governing parties of all flavours routinely break promises when it suits them. It could even be argued that long, detailed manifestos are illogical, because circumstances can change and plans can become outdated very quickly, to the point where even the voters who supported a party on the basis of their manifesto might want them to ignore or divert from parts of it in light of new events and information that could make the original plan/policy impractical.

Isn't it more the case that people want to understand the general direction of a party and their leader, to a degree where they know what type of decision a Government or Prime Minister is likely to take in any given circumstance. Did anyone need to read the Conservative manifestos in the 1980s to know the general direction of travel Margaret Thatcher was willing to take. Do we need to read a Labour manifesto to know the general direction a Jeremy Corbyn Government would take as issues arise?

Let's face it, the vast majority of people who cast a vote have never read the manifesto of the party they are voting for, and only a certain percentage will read the kind of 'quality' newspapers that are likely to go into party policy in any depth. For many, it's a mixture of personality, maybe one or two particular promises that have caught their eye, and a general gut feeling about the party's ideology.

[ncfcog]

Elite has hit the nail on the head. The traditional lines of politics in this country are now extremely blurred with Brexit being the only thing that people want to talk about and it has essentially split the country into two types of voter. Unfortunately what has been lost within all of this is the fact that Brexit and how it is/is not delivered actually has an enormous impact on those traditional political policies many have appeared to have forgotten about.

[ncfcog]

Essentially you're right, although I've never been convinced that party manifestos serve much of purpose anyway, because governing parties of all flavours routinely break promises when it suits them. It could even be argued that long, detailed manifestos are illogical, because circumstances can change and plans can become outdated very quickly, to the point where even the voters who supported a party on the basis of their manifesto might want them to ignore or divert from parts of it in light of new events and information that could make the original plan/policy impractical.

Isn't it more the case that people want to understand the general direction of a party and their leader, to a degree where they know what type of decision a Government or Prime Minister is likely to take in any given circumstance. Did anyone need to read the Conservative manifestos in the 1980s to know the general direction of travel Margaret Thatcher was willing to take. Do we need to read a Labour manifesto to know the general direction a Jeremy Corbyn Government would take as issues arise?

Let's face it, the vast majority of people who cast a vote have never read the manifesto of the party they are voting for, and only a certain percentage will read the kind of 'quality' newspapers that are likely to go into party policy in any depth. For many, it's a mixture of personality, maybe one or two particular promises that have caught their eye, and a general gut feeling about the party's ideology.

I think in the past it was very black & white, you either swayed to the left or the right with a few liberal types down the middle. Politics isn't like that any more.

[i961pie]

They aren't. If there was a general election then labour would do well. People have only turned their back on them in the European elections because they don't have a clear remain policy. Most Labour voters I know voted Lib Dem or Green in the European elections as a protest vote, but said they would still vote for Labour in a general election.

I think you are wrong, I know many labour voters who won't vote for them while Corbyn and co are in charge, you hear it every day.

[drillerpie]

I think in the past it was very black & white, you either swayed to the left or the right with a few liberal types down the middle. Politics isn't like that any more.

I think the internet has changed politics in ways we haven't even fully understood yet.

[ncfcog]

I think the internet has changed politics in ways we haven't even fully understood yet.

I think you might be right.

[seriouspie]

I think you might be right.

I too agree with all the comments including Elite's. I can't argue about modern social media practices because apart from posting on this board, I don't use or particularly know how! Reading, writing and using the phone for basically contacting people still works for me although I acknowledge the benefits brought upon us by modern communications in many cases.

So admitting I'm an old Thicko on such matters back to Brexit and the vote.

Let's keep things basic and forget all the post vote shenanigans. Before the vote all the for's and against's were laid out and to the best of my knowledge the vast proportion of parliament decided to go ahead and trigger the vote as is the democratic way. Parliament also decided (not the government) to trigger article 50. Never mind the 48/52% result, even one vote either way is respected in any vote .......that's why voting takes place. We elect politicians to run our country, again that's democracy whether we support one side or another.... we abide with the result of a vote whether we like it or not. To even contemplate holding another vote is an absolute disgrace to the British way of life and just shows the level to which our politicians have dropped to. All this bullsh!t concerning 'Peoples' or 'Confirmatory' further votes is another stall. At the end of the day, we are one of the richest countries in the world, we aren't going to collapse even in the event of a no deal scenario. Christ almighty.... some on here should have been around during the winter of discontent, the miner's strike and even rationing after the war, these were real hardships but we got over them. Back to simplicity, if democratic voting is finished then so is our country.

[BigFatPie]

I too agree with all the comments including Elite's. I can't argue about modern social media practices because apart from posting on this board, I don't use or particularly know how! Reading, writing and using the phone for basically contacting people still works for me although I acknowledge the benefits brought upon us by modern communications in many cases.

So admitting I'm an old Thicko on such matters back to Brexit and the vote.

Let's keep things basic and forget all the post vote shenanigans. Before the vote all the for's and against's were laid out and to the best of my knowledge the vast proportion of parliament decided to go ahead and trigger the vote as is the democratic way. Parliament also decided (not the government) to trigger article 50. Never mind the 48/52% result, even one vote either way is respected in any vote .......that's why voting takes place. We elect politicians to run our country, again that's democracy whether we support one side or another.... we abide with the result of a vote whether we like it or not. To even contemplate holding another vote is an absolute disgrace to the British way of life and just shows the level to which our politicians have dropped to. All this bullsh!t concerning 'Peoples' or 'Confirmatory' further votes is another stall. At the end of the day, we are one of the richest countries in the world, we aren't going to collapse even in the event of a no deal scenario. Christ almighty.... some on here should have been around during the winter of discontent, the miner's strike and even rationing after the war, these were real hardships but we got over them. Back to simplicity, if democratic voting is finished then so is our country.

All that would be legitimate if MPs, including and especially hardcore Brexiters, hadn’t voted down Mrs May’s deal. If they hadn’t, we would have left as scheduled, on March 29th.

They didn’t, so we haven’t left, and now all Brexiters appear to be happy with is ‘no deal’ which, despite what is now said, wasn’t proposed during the campaign.

It is widely forecasted that ‘no deal’ will have a significant economic and practical effect on virtually everyone in the country. People deserve another say on whether they still want that to go ahead.

[MagpieMike]

She's a hero. Single-handedly destroyed the Tory party and maybe even saved you mugs from the Brexit you fell for. What's not to love.

This made me smile French. Great post.

[JoePass]

This made me smile French. Great post.


The absolute reason we democratic mugs want to leave..... the total contempt the pathetic losers have for 17.4 million people.