O/T Farage needs to be very careful

[Lullapie]

With the Peterborough By-Election nearing, the result could leave The Establishment in an awful position. The Brexit Vote was a shot across their bows, the EU Elections was a torpedo in their hull, however if The Brexit Party win the By-Election as convincingly as some political commentators predict, the only way to stop the de-stabilising of the Old Order could be worse than most decent people could bear to think. I am sure there are some who would like to see the back of Nigel Farage and I'm sure we all agree, that some of those people have tremendous power and are unanswerable to the Law of the Land.

Nigel Farage needs to be extremely careful and I hope for the democracy of the UK, there are people who will do their utmost to protect him. I'd feel the same for Jeremy Corbyn or whoever the new leader of the Tories will be if either of them were making waves as big as Farage is. Don't think for one minute that is could never happen in good old Blighty as it wouldn't be cricket.

[countygump]

With the Peterborough By-Election nearing, the result could leave The Establishment in an awful position. The Brexit Vote was a shot across their bows, the EU Elections was a torpedo in their hull, however if The Brexit Party win the By-Election as convincingly as some political commentators predict, the only way to stop the de-stabilising of the Old Order could be worse than most decent people could bear to think. I am sure there are some who would like to see the back of Nigel Farage and I'm sure we all agree, that some of those people have tremendous power and are unanswerable to the Law of the Land.

Nigel Farage needs to be extremely careful and I hope for the democracy of the UK, there are people who will do their utmost to protect him. I'd feel the same for Jeremy Corbyn or whoever the new leader of the Tories will be if either of them were making waves as big as Farage is. Don't think for one minute that is could never happen in good old Blighty as it wouldn't be cricket.


Only one way to see the back of Farage and that's deliver Brexit rather than delay, avoid, deny, obfuscate, etcetera, etcetera.....................

[BigFatPie]

With the Peterborough By-Election nearing, the result could leave The Establishment in an awful position. The Brexit Vote was a shot across their bows, the EU Elections was a torpedo in their hull, however if The Brexit Party win the By-Election as convincingly as some political commentators predict, the only way to stop the de-stabilising of the Old Order could be worse than most decent people could bear to think. I am sure there are some who would like to see the back of Nigel Farage and I'm sure we all agree, that some of those people have tremendous power and are unanswerable to the Law of the Land.

Nigel Farage needs to be extremely careful and I hope for the democracy of the UK, there are people who will do their utmost to protect him. I'd feel the same for Jeremy Corbyn or whoever the new leader of the Tories will be if either of them were making waves as big as Farage is. Don't think for one minute that is could never happen in good old Blighty as it wouldn't be cricket.

Stopped reading at ‘The Establishment’.

[forwardmagpie]

Stopped reading at ‘The Establishment’.

Why BFP, the Establishment wants to remain which is probably why we haven’t left yet and very likely won’t.

[Lullapie]

Stopped reading at ‘The Establishment’.

Why, because it was a word of more than one syllable?

[nottsco2002]

The intelligence services were very close to intervening in the Wilson government in the 60's and 70's and by todays political standards you wouldn't consider them extreme. Very unlikely Farage will win as the polls say he will.

[drillerpie]

If they want to kill him it wouldn't be that hard, just rachet up the rhetoric, play on visceral insticts like fear, patriotism, call him a traitor, demonise and depersonalise him to legitimise self-defence against a perceived existential threat, then claim plausible deniability when some nutjob takes him out.

We've already seen how well that works with the guy who stabbed the MP and the various letter bombs and so on in the US.

I still don't get how people consider Farage anti-establishment either. Out of Farage and Corbyn whose anti establishment credentials are better? I won't be voting for either of them but there's no doubt in my mind it's Corbyn.

[jonnyt1]

Yes Wilson stood down when he found out about the cour that was planned.

[forwardmagpie]

If they want to kill him it wouldn't be that hard, just rachet up the rhetoric, play on visceral insticts like fear, patriotism, call him a traitor, demonise and depersonalise him to legitimise self-defence against a perceived existential threat, then claim plausible deniability when some nutjob takes him out.

We've already seen how well that works with the guy who stabbed the MP and the various letter bombs and so on in the US.

I still don't get how people consider Farage anti-establishment either. Out of Farage and Corbyn whose anti establishment credentials are better? I won't be voting for either of them but there's no doubt in my mind it's Corbyn.

Corbyn is basically a leaver so also not toeing the Establishment line.

[drillerpie]

Corbyn is basically a leaver so also not toeing the Establishment line.

Again, the automatic equivalence between being pro Brexit and anti establishment baffles me.

[forwardmagpie]

Again, the automatic equivalence between being pro Brexit and anti establishment baffles me.

If the Establishment want to remain - what baffles you ?

[drillerpie]

If the Establishment want to remain - what baffles you ?

Depends how you define establishment I suppose.

[Old_pie]

Stopped reading at ‘The Establishment’.

For what it's worth I'm against antidisestablishmentariasm .... I think.

[the_anticlough]

You can't get any more 'establishment' than Farage a privately educated, career politician, ex-stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS.

He's a tory of the worst kind who just wants to deliver the UK on a platter to US business.

[TouchEm]

You can't get any more 'establishment' than Farage a privately educated, career politician, ex-stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS.

He's a tory of the worst kind who just wants to deliver the UK on a platter to US business.

Totally agree

[seriouspie]

Only one way to see the back of Farage and that's deliver Brexit rather than delay, avoid, deny, obfuscate, etcetera, etcetera.....................

Is the correct answer.

[forwardmagpie]

You can't get any more 'establishment' than Farage a privately educated, career politician, ex-stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS.

He's a tory of the worst kind who just wants to deliver the UK on a platter to US business.

If you call someone who worked for 20 years mainly as a metal broker a career politician what do you call someone who has really only ever worked as a trade union official, a local councillor or an MP.

[Trickytreesreds]

If you call someone who worked for 20 years mainly as a metal broker a career politician what do you call someone who has really only ever worked as a trade union official, a local councillor or an MP.

Cameron/Milliband/Clegg are what you call career politicians.
Never done another job in their lives expect pocket public money.

All 3 were pro european. I wonder why?

Give me a dozen Farages any day of the week.

Ps is Farage's poster looking wrong now, seeing as the inflatable invasion season is taking shape?

[Notsohumblepie]

You can't get any more 'establishment' than Farage a privately educated, career politician, ex-stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS.

He's a tory of the worst kind who just wants to deliver the UK on a platter to US business.

" A group in a society exercising power, and influence over matters of policy, opinion, or taste, and seen as resisting change. ( Oxford Dict) "

I don't think Nigel is resisting change , and I don't think you would call him an arbiter of taste .

[the_anticlough]

If you call someone who worked for 20 years mainly as a metal broker a career politician what do you call someone who has really only ever worked as a trade union official, a local councillor or an MP.

Definitely part of the tory establishment, definitely a career politician.

Just look at his profile, tory since 1978, salary-collecting member of the EP for the past 20 years

A snake oil salesmen of the highest order who only wants to harm the interests of working people

Personal details
Born Nigel Paul Farage
3 April 1964 (age 55) Downe, Kent, England
Political party Brexit Party (2019–present)
Other political affiliations
Independent (2018–2019)[2]
UKIP (1993–2018)
Conservative (1978–1993)[3]
Spouse(s)
Gráinne Hayes
(m. 1988; div. 1997)
Kirsten Mehr
(m. 1999)
Residence Single Street, London, England
Education Dulwich College

[seriouspie]

Definitely part of the tory establishment, definitely a career politician.

Just look at his profile, tory since 1978, salary-collecting member of the EP for the past 20 years

A snake oil salesmen of the highest order who only wants to harm the interests of working people

Personal details
Born Nigel Paul Farage
3 April 1964 (age 55) Downe, Kent, England
Political party Brexit Party (2019–present)
Other political affiliations
Independent (2018–2019)[2]
UKIP (1993–2018)
Conservative (1978–1993)[3]
Spouse(s)
Gráinne Hayes
(m. 1988; div. 1997)
Kirsten Mehr
(m. 1999)
Residence Single Street, London, England
Education Dulwich College

The answer of the envious.

[Trickytreesreds]

Definitely part of the tory establishment, definitely a career politician.

Just look at his profile, tory since 1978, salary-collecting member of the EP for the past 20 years

A snake oil salesmen of the highest order who only wants to harm the interests of working people

Personal details
Born Nigel Paul Farage
3 April 1964 (age 55) Downe, Kent, England
Political party Brexit Party (2019–present)
Other political affiliations
Independent (2018–2019)[2]
UKIP (1993–2018)
Conservative (1978–1993)[3]
Spouse(s)
Gráinne Hayes
(m. 1988; div. 1997)
Kirsten Mehr
(m. 1999)
Residence Single Street, London, England
Education Dulwich College

I wish you'd tell the whole truth, before assassinating someone.

After leaving school in 1982, Farage decided to seek employment in the City of London, trading commodities at the London Metal Exchange.[23] Initially, he joined the American commodity operation of brokerage firm Drexel Burnham Lambert,[25] transferring to Crédit Lyonnais Rouse in 1986.[25] He joined Refco in 1994, and Natixis Metals in 2003.[25]

Farage joined the Conservative Party in 1978, but voted for the Green Party in 1989 because of what he saw as their then "sensible" and Eurosceptic policies.He left the Conservatives in 1992 in protest at Prime Minister John Major's government's signing of the Treaty on European Union at Maastricht.

In essence. His career politics began in 1999 as an MEP.

So, would care to explain now, how Cameron/Clegg/Milliband who have never had a "job," are not classed as career politicians like you are on about Farage?

Difference is, people know Farage's history.
The Private boys clubs politicians, aren't to be trusted.

[BigFatPie]

This thread is like;

NUTTER; The Establishment will want to kill Farage, he should be careful!

SANE PEOPLE; What you on about, look at his background, Farage is the Establishment personified!!

NUTTER2; You’re just jealous!


There’s literally no reasonable discussion to be had. Some of you lot are gone.

[forwardmagpie]

This thread is like;

NUTTER; The Establishment will want to kill Farage, he should be careful!

SANE PEOPLE; What you on about, look at his background, Farage is the Establishment personified!!

NUTTER2; You’re just jealous!


There’s literally no reasonable discussion to be had. Some of you lot are gone.

For once BFP I agree with you- the above post is not reasonable !!

[ivansneck]

Definitely part of the tory establishment, definitely a career politician.

Just look at his profile, tory since 1978, salary-collecting member of the EP for the past 20 years

A snake oil salesmen of the highest order who only wants to harm the interests of working people

Personal details
Born Nigel Paul Farage
3 April 1964 (age 55) Downe, Kent, England
Political party Brexit Party (2019–present)
Other political affiliations
Independent (2018–2019)[2]
UKIP (1993–2018)
Conservative (1978–1993)[3]
Spouse(s)
Gráinne Hayes
(m. 1988; div. 1997)
Kirsten Mehr
(m. 1999)
Residence Single Street, London, England
Education Dulwich College

Spot on

[drillerpie]

"

I don't think Nigel is resisting change

He's resisting the change towards European integration and the global trend of moving towards multilateral systems of governance, in favour of the traditional model of sovereignty, isn't he?

[the_anticlough]

The answer of the envious.

The answer of someone with nothing to contribute to the subject, apart from trying to lazily discredit.

[the_anticlough]

Farage has long been on record on breaking up the NHS and moving to a US-type medical insurance system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgKFcN6mZCE

Just look how shifty he gets from 0.50, touching his nose all the time. What he doesn't want to tell them is the full story of the NHS being sold off to the US Pharmaceuticals and healthcare industry? In USA, hundreds of thousands of people go bankrupt every year after they sick.

Just don't be so naive as to be taken in by Nigel Farage. A vote for him is one to scrap the NHS. Why would you want to do that to yourself and your families?

[Elite_Pie]

The answer of the envious.

Well done seriouspie, you have shown yet again how narrow minded you are. If anyone criticises the unequal spread of wealth in the world it has to be down to envy in your eyes, rather than a desire that those in charge take steps to rectify that inequality. Hopefully your bigoted generation will eventually be replaced those who are prepared to look at the bigger picture.

[forwardmagpie]

You can't get any more 'establishment' than Farage a privately educated, career politician, ex-stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS.

He's a tory of the worst kind who just wants to deliver the UK on a platter to US business.

You didn’t reply AC on whether Mr Corbyn is a career politician.

Have you looked at Mr Corbyn’s education at
An Independent Preparatory School
A Day and boarding Grammar School
near his home at Yew Tree Manor - a 17th Century country house in Shropshire.

[forwardmagpie]

Farage has long been on record on breaking up the NHS and moving to a US-type medical insurance system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgKFcN6mZCE

Just look how shifty he gets from 0.50, touching his nose all the time. What he doesn't want to tell them is the full story of the NHS being sold off to the US Pharmaceuticals and healthcare industry? In USA, hundreds of thousands of people go bankrupt every year after they sick.

Just don't be so naive as to be taken in by Nigel Farage. A vote for him is one to scrap the NHS. Why would you want to do that to yourself and your families?

Calling people who disagree with you naive is not a winning argument.

The NHS despite Mr Blair’s massive investment is in a mess but I would never vote to scrap it.

I don’t think it can continue as it is but in your world anyone who might discuss other options or reform of the NHS is shifty.

Other than do another Mr Blair which seemed to increase non patient facing staff more than patient facing staff (and don’t get me started on PFI Hospitals) how do you think we can improve it.

[the_anticlough]

You didn’t reply AC on whether Mr Corbyn is a career politician.

Have you looked at Mr Corbyn’s education at
An Independent Preparatory School
A Day and boarding Grammar School
near his home at Yew Tree Manor - a 17th Century country house in Shropshire.

Isn't this thread about Farage and him being part of the establishment?

You can tell he's part of the establishment by how much exposure the media has given him over the years, just like Murdoch's FOX news led the way for Trump. Farage is the establishment media's poster boy

He's part of the extreme far right neoliberal project to turn the UK into an American hellhole, ripping up worker's rights, environmental protection, any state provision that's left. That'll mean the end of the NHS for sure. All he's ever wanted to do is deliver votes to the tories to deliver this climax to the Thatcherite wet dream!

Do people realise they're voting for that? They're being duped big time.

[forwardmagpie]

Isn't this thread about Farage and him being part of the establishment?

You can tell he's part of the establishment by how much exposure the media has given him over the years, just like Murdoch's FOX news led the way for Trump. Farage is the establishment media's poster boy

He's part of the extreme far right neoliberal project to turn the UK into an American hellhole, ripping up worker's rights, environmental protection, any state provision that's left. That'll mean the end of the NHS for sure. All he's ever wanted to do is deliver votes to the tories to deliver this climax to the Thatcherite wet dream!

Do people realise they're voting for that? They're being duped big time.

So you can post statements, say people are naive and being duped but are not willing to get into a debate or respond to any questions pertaining to your posts.

I have a question for you though, I do not want Mr Farage to run this country and don't believe he ever will but I have disliked and wanted to leave the EU for 25 years, can you advise me which party to vote for that will achieve this?

[the_anticlough]

And on the 'career politician' thing. Of course, they both are. Farage joined the tory party in his early ****s and has been an arch tory ever since.

The massive difference is that Corbyn is the biggest threat to and enemy of the establishment. Farage is at the heart of the establishment and its dark plan to americanise us by stealth and by holding up false bogeymen

[the_anticlough]

There was the answer to your question.

The new question on who to vote for...
I think looking at your priorities and motivations might be a better place to start. Do you like the society we have today? If not, why not? What are the causes of the problems? Personally, I don't think food banks, rising crime, **** schools, lying politicians, poor health, declining life expectancy in places, mental health crises etc etc has anything to do with the EU. If the EU ever became an impediment to solving these issues, I'd campaign to leave myself. But it's all on the tories. They've screwed up our country, nobody else.

[forwardmagpie]

There was the answer to your question.

The new question on who to vote for...
I think looking at your priorities and motivations might be a better place to start. Do you like the society we have today? If not, why not? What are the causes of the problems? Personally, I don't think food banks, rising crime, **** schools, lying politicians, poor health, declining life expectancy in places, mental health crises etc etc has anything to do with the EU. If the EU ever became an impediment to solving these issues, I'd campaign to leave myself. But it's all on the tories. They've screwed up our country, nobody else.

You didn't answer the question on the NHS (including PFI) but am grateful that you do agree that there are many career politicians, there are also many privately educated politicians and many who have been married more than once.

I don't like your the issues in this country you list above either, if you want to blame everything on the Tories then that is your right.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor

Do you think remaining in the EU will solve the problems you highlighted above considering we have been members for 46 years.

[Lullapie]

You can't get any more 'establishment' than Farage a privately educated, career politician, ex-stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS.

He's a tory of the worst kind who just wants to deliver the UK on a platter to US business.

Firstly, Tory is a proper noun, hence should have a capital 'T'.

Secondly, do you seriously believe that all the people who want to retain the old order or Establishment are Conservatives? What a sheltered life. A couple who were protected by the Establishment were Greville Janner and Cyril Smith. As far as I am aware, neither were Tories. Mind you, I think Jimmy Savile was a Tory.

I know you're not young, but you reason like a child. In case you were unaware, the US have been pulling the strings of Britain ever since they stepped into the fray in the First World War to help us defeat the Germans/Austro-Hungarians. There have been countless examples since then where the US has had to bail us out. If you think that they don't pull the strings you are extremely naive.

I am assuming you're not a 'Tory', so let me point out a non-Tory leader who had a very brown nose due to him cuddling up to George W Bush (one of the most right-wing US Presidents in history) - Tony Blair.

[the_anticlough]

No, the 'establishment's' also disguised as the Brexit Party now.

From the rest of your post. I don't know what Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith and Tony Blair have to do with the subject you brought up...

Also, I hope you're not one of those brexit supporters that bang on about sovereignty, because it seems like you don't think we have any to start with.

You should spend less time in that shed.

[forwardmagpie]

There was the answer to your question.

The new question on who to vote for...
I think looking at your priorities and motivations might be a better place to start. Do you like the society we have today? If not, why not? What are the causes of the problems? Personally, I don't think food banks, rising crime, **** schools, lying politicians, poor health, declining life expectancy in places, mental health crises etc etc has anything to do with the EU. If the EU ever became an impediment to solving these issues, I'd campaign to leave myself. But it's all on the tories. They've screwed up our country, nobody else.

So who to vote for to get Brexit?

Conservatives - no they haven't been able to do the job now so why would they in the future and apparently they are to blame for everything.
Labour - no not even Labour supporters understand their Brexit policy.
LibDems - Remain party
Green - Remain party
UKip - Couldn't vote for any party that had anything to do with Tommy Robinson.
Change UK - Remain party if they are still here by the time of the next general election
Brexit party - seem to want Brexit

Yes you are right - I think looking at my priorities and motivations might be a better place to start, unless I suddenly become a remainer the choices appear limited!

[the_anticlough]

So who to vote for to get Brexit?

Conservatives - no they haven't been able to do the job now so why would they in the future and apparently they are to blame for everything.
Labour - no not even Labour supporters understand their Brexit policy.
LibDems - Remain party
Green - Remain party
UKip - Couldn't vote for any party that had anything to do with Tommy Robinson.
Change UK - Remain party if they are still here by the time of the next general election
Brexit party - seem to want Brexit

Yes you are right - I think looking at my priorities and motivations might be a better place to start, unless I suddenly become a remainer the choices appear limited!

Fair summary.
I've always wanted to be part of the EU. A reformed EU for sure, including actually implementing FoM restrictions, which the tories (not deserving of a capital letter btw, more proper c***s than a proper noun;D) and new labour never did.

I think Labour's position has been deliberately misrepresented in the media. It's not confusing at all.

There are at least as many possible "Brexits' as there are tory leadership contestants. Nobody has the right to claim they represent the brexit people voted for. It was so ill-defined apart from a consensus that we'd have a close relationship with the single market and a customs union and the GFA (as not mentioned much), wouldn't be affected.

Labour like everyone else has a right to advocate it's version of Brexit - One that protects workers' rights, environmental protections and forges a close relationship with our closest neighbours and allies, including a customs union and a mechanism to stay aligned with rights and protections as they evolve.

Labour's position is that we exit with this 'working people's' brexit. This would then be subject to a confirmatory vote by the electorate. Any reasonable person should agree to this check as there are infinite types of Brexit and would the public approve this particular one. That's been their position, which keeps them to their manifesto.
Whether this holds for much longer remains to be seen.

The euro elections shows that there's a clear anti-no deal majority and the Brexit party is the tory wolf in sheep's clothing and it'd be no health service and chlorinated chicken for dinner, even at the food banks.

[forwardmagpie]

Fair summary.
I've always wanted to be part of the EU. A reformed EU for sure, including actually implementing FoM restrictions, which the tories (not deserving of a capital letter btw, more proper c***s than a proper noun;D) and new labour never did.

I think Labour's position has been deliberately misrepresented in the media. It's not confusing at all.

There are at least as many possible "Brexits' as there are tory leadership contestants. Nobody has the right to claim they represent the brexit people voted for. It was so ill-defined apart from a consensus that we'd have a close relationship with the single market and a customs union and the GFA (as not mentioned much), wouldn't be affected.

Labour like everyone else has a right to advocate it's version of Brexit - One that protects workers' rights, environmental protections and forges a close relationship with our closest neighbours and allies, including a customs union and a mechanism to stay aligned with rights and protections as they evolve.

Labour's position is that we exit with this 'working people's' brexit. This would then be subject to a confirmatory vote by the electorate. Any reasonable person should agree to this check as there are infinite types of Brexit and would the public approve this particular one. That's been their position, which keeps them to their manifesto.
Whether this holds for much longer remains to be seen.

The euro elections shows that there's a clear anti-no deal majority and the Brexit party is the tory wolf in sheep's clothing and it'd be no health service and chlorinated chicken for dinner, even at the food banks.

Thanks by far your most thoughtful response with not too much to disagree with (slightly ruined by the last paragraph but hey you can’t have it all).

[forwardmagpie]

Didn’t expect Change UK to self destruct quite so quickly !!

[the_anticlough]

Didn’t expect Change UK to self destruct quite so quickly !!

I think it's for the best. They're not needed, a complete irrelevance.

But Chukka Umunna, eh? Walked out of more parties than Howard Hughes. Who'd trust him, hardly in it for the long haul...

Soubry's been left holding the baby! ChangeUK won't see the end of the month now, maybe not even the week

[SwalePie]

Didn’t expect Change UK to self destruct quite so quickly !!

I think the clue was in their title ;)

[forwardmagpie]

I think it's for the best. They're not needed, a complete irrelevance.

But Chukka Umunna, eh? Walked out of more parties than Howard Hughes. Who'd trust him, hardly in it for the long haul...

Soubry's been left holding the baby! ChangeUK won't see the end of the month now, maybe not even the week

Agreed 🤔

[seriouspie]

Well done seriouspie, you have shown yet again how narrow minded you are. If anyone criticises the unequal spread of wealth in the world it has to be down to envy in your eyes, rather than a desire that those in charge take steps to rectify that inequality. Hopefully your bigoted generation will eventually be replaced those who are prepared to look at the bigger picture.

Thank you Mr Socialist ..... I must read more on how Venezuela etc spread their wealth to all their populace.

[i961pie]

There was the answer to your question.

The new question on who to vote for...
I think looking at your priorities and motivations might be a better place to start. Do you like the society we have today? If not, why not? What are the causes of the problems? Personally, I don't think food banks, rising crime, **** schools, lying politicians, poor health, declining life expectancy in places, mental health crises etc etc has anything to do with the EU. If the EU ever became an impediment to solving these issues, I'd campaign to leave myself. But it's all on the tories. They've screwed up our country, nobody else.

Do you think everything that you mention has only happened in the last ten years?

[SmiffyPie]

An awful lot of sanctimonious BS going on here. If push ever came to shove most of you/us would quickly go the "not in my back garden" route.

[JoePass]

Thank you Mr Socialist ..... I must read more on how Venezuela etc spread their wealth to all their populace.


Dont expect a reply from a Corbyn lover.

[Elite_Pie]

Dont expect a reply from a Corbyn lover.

Rather ironic coming from the yellowback who always runs away and hides when asked a direct question.

If every Brit was as cowardly as you we would all be speaking German now.

[navypie]

Rather ironic coming from the yellowback who always runs away and hides when asked a direct question.

If every Brit was as cowardly as you we would all be speaking German now.

Komm schon,kuchen.

[the_anticlough]

Do you think everything that you mention has only happened in the last ten years?

The state of our country is a product of 4 decades of neoliberal ideology and the neoliberal policies of the tories and New Labour.

But I think that most people can recognise that the rate of deterioration has escalated since the tory-Lib Dem coalition brought in their austerity program. That's when we've seen the food banks, declining life expectancy, dying high streets, schools starved of funds, juvenile crime, knife crime, increase in mental health problems etc

Just walk around our cities and towns in left behind areas. Are people doing well? Are they happy? Are we heading in the right direction?

[i961pie]

The state of our country is a product of 4 decades of neoliberal ideology and the neoliberal policies of the tories and New Labour.

But I think that most people can recognise that the rate of deterioration has escalated since the tory-Lib Dem coalition brought in their austerity program. That's when we've seen the food banks, declining life expectancy, dying high streets, schools starved of funds, juvenile crime, knife crime, increase in mental health problems etc

Just walk around our cities and towns in left behind areas. Are people doing well? Are they happy? Are we heading in the right direction?

Your first statement blamed only the Tories but now I see you say it's been happening for 4 decades.
That I agree with you.,
And it's got worse this last few years.

[forwardmagpie]

The state of our country is a product of 4 decades of neoliberal ideology and the neoliberal policies of the tories and New Labour.

But I think that most people can recognise that the rate of deterioration has escalated since the tory-Lib Dem coalition brought in their austerity program. That's when we've seen the food banks, declining life expectancy, dying high streets, schools starved of funds, juvenile crime, knife crime, increase in mental health problems etc

Just walk around our cities and towns in left behind areas. Are people doing well? Are they happy? Are we heading in the right direction?

New Labour spent massively but still are to blame?

[forwardmagpie]

The state of our country is a product of 4 decades of neoliberal ideology and the neoliberal policies of the tories and New Labour.

But I think that most people can recognise that the rate of deterioration has escalated since the tory-Lib Dem coalition brought in their austerity program. That's when we've seen the food banks, declining life expectancy, dying high streets, schools starved of funds, juvenile crime, knife crime, increase in mental health problems etc

Just walk around our cities and towns in left behind areas. Are people doing well? Are they happy? Are we heading in the right direction?

In the four decades you speak of there has been an 11 million increase in the population of the UK - Just walk around our cities and towns in left behind areas. Are people doing well? Are they happy? Are we heading in the right direction?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a population increase, in fact it should be welcomed as it should bring in more jobs, more taxes, more consumers etc but has ours been badly managed without the infrastructure needed?

[the_anticlough]

New Labour spent massively but still are to blame?

Blame for the state we're in has to be relative.

In my opinion, the Thatcher govts plus the tory/Lib dem period since 2010 has seen the worst deterioration in our quality of life as a society (remember 'there's no such thing as society' ?)

The New Labour years were better, but that crew never really challenged the ideological and structural underpinnings of Thatcherism that said private sector is good, public provision bad. There was no genuine attempt to equalise life chances in our country. They stopped social housing and failed to regulate finance or deal with tax avoidance.

Remember what Thatcher said? New Labour was her 'single greatest achievement'.

Compared to the Eton mafia that has wrecked the country since 2010, I'd have them back like a shot (again, it's relative). 2010 to 2019 under the tories has been the pits.

[i961pie]

Blame for the state we're in has to be relative.

In my opinion, the Thatcher govts plus the tory/Lib dem period since 2010 has seen the worst deterioration in our quality of life as a society (remember 'there's no such thing as society' ?)

The New Labour years were better, but that crew never really challenged the ideological and structural underpinnings of Thatcherism that said private sector is good, public provision bad. There was no genuine attempt to equalise life chances in our country. They stopped social housing and failed to regulate finance or deal with tax avoidance.

Remember what Thatcher said? New Labour was her 'single greatest achievement'.

Compared to the Eton mafia that has wrecked the country since 2010, I'd have them back like a shot (again, it's relative). 2010 to 2019 under the tories has been the pits.

Spoken by a true Labour voter:s

[Lullapie]

Blame for the state we're in has to be relative.

In my opinion, the Thatcher govts plus the tory/Lib dem period since 2010 has seen the worst deterioration in our quality of life as a society (remember 'there's no such thing as society' ?)

The New Labour years were better, but that crew never really challenged the ideological and structural underpinnings of Thatcherism that said private sector is good, public provision bad. There was no genuine attempt to equalise life chances in our country. They stopped social housing and failed to regulate finance or deal with tax avoidance.

Remember what Thatcher said? New Labour was her 'single greatest achievement'.

Compared to the Eton mafia that has wrecked the country since 2010, I'd have them back like a shot (again, it's relative). 2010 to 2019 under the tories has been the pits.

Is that because she closed ALL the pits or because she stole milk from schoolchildren?

I can't think of any country where Socialism has benefitted the majority. It may benefit the voiciferous few, but never the majority.

We have a fantastic form of Socialism currently in New Zealand. 63% of the income tax take is from people earning the average wage (Treasury figures). The super wealthy know how to protect their money, those who don't work contribute nothing, so New Labour are coming for the normal working person. Under a manifesto of no new taxes in the first term (only three years over here), six**** new 'stealth taxes' have been introduced. New Zealand had a heathy Balance of Trade surplus, but current projections are for us to go into deficit as the economy grinds to a standstill (currently 1.2% growth, down from 3.9% growth) in the next eigh**** months.

New Labour, same old cow poo - it doesn't matter which country you live in.

[forwardmagpie]

SNP needs to be careful

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48543313

[navypie]

SNP needs to be careful

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48543313

Sturgeon will say ' Scotland ' about 40 times in 2 minutes, then blame a lack of funding from Westminster.

[the_anticlough]

Is that because she closed ALL the pits or because she stole milk from schoolchildren?

I can't think of any country where Socialism has benefitted the majority. It may benefit the voiciferous few, but never the majority.

We have a fantastic form of Socialism currently in New Zealand. 63% of the income tax take is from people earning the average wage (Treasury figures). The super wealthy know how to protect their money, those who don't work contribute nothing, so New Labour are coming for the normal working person. Under a manifesto of no new taxes in the first term (only three years over here), six**** new 'stealth taxes' have been introduced. New Zealand had a heathy Balance of Trade surplus, but current projections are for us to go into deficit as the economy grinds to a standstill (currently 1.2% growth, down from 3.9% growth) in the next eigh**** months.

New Labour, same old cow poo - it doesn't matter which country you live in.

Same old Alt-Right hysterical nonsense and misrepresentation of the truth.

You started the thread with a ridiculous post about Farage and end it with irrelevant 'stats' from the other side of the world.

All gains working people have made in this country (and probably yours as well) have been won through the struggles of the labour movement.

The far-right crew have never had any solutions for people's lives and never will.

[nott5c]

Is Farage's poster looking wrong now? Are you kidding me? The purely racist duplication of a Nazi poster from the 40's? Having images of Syrians (not Europeans which is the whole point of Brexit surely?!) flooding into the Country, 65 million Turks coming into our Country. Let's face it, Brexit is a money making scheme to de-nationalise the Health Service to sell off to Insurance companies in the UK and US, and have done an excellent job of making a large proportion of the population forget about humanity and solely about their own irrational fears.




Cameron/Milliband/Clegg are what you call career politicians.
Never done another job in their lives expect pocket public money.

All 3 were pro european. I wonder why?

Give me a dozen Farages any day of the week.

Ps is Farage's poster looking wrong now, seeing as the inflatable invasion season is taking shape?

[SmiffyPie]

All gains working people have made in this country (and probably yours as well) have been won through the struggles of the labour movement.

The far-right crew have never had any solutions for people's lives and never will.I agree entirely. The only problem is the labour movement seem incapable of sustained financial prudence. Maybe they should be a perpetual opposition/pressure group

[BigFatPie]

Same old Alt-Right hysterical nonsense and misrepresentation of the truth.

You started the thread with a ridiculous post about Farage and end it with irrelevant 'stats' from the other side of the world.

All gains working people have made in this country (and probably yours as well) have been won through the struggles of the labour movement.

The far-right crew have never had any solutions for people's lives and never will.

A moron who lives in NZ? Can only bd the return of BoringPie.

[Notsohumblepie]

A moron who lives in NZ? Can only bd the return of BoringPie.

Wolfie Smith's cultural heritage lives on .

[navypie]

A moron who lives in NZ? Can only bd the return of BoringPie.

Bloody reactionary.

[forwardmagpie]

Brexit party 1 - 4 to win Peterborough Elite.
Worth a bet ?

[Elite_Pie]

Brexit party 1 - 4 to win Peterborough Elite.
Worth a bet ?

I had a modest bet on the Brexit party to win Peterborough at 5/6 just before the EU elections when it became apparent they would win most seats in that one. I struggle to understand how they can be voted into parliament however when they have no policies on the important issues like health, education etc. It seems politics today begins and ends with Brexit for many.

[BigFatPie]

Wolfie Smith's cultural heritage lives on .

Who’s Wolfie Smith?

I bet you’re the sort of bloke who now refuses to go through the EU bit of passport control.

[Trickytreesreds]

Is Farage's poster looking wrong now? Are you kidding me? The purely racist duplication of a Nazi poster from the 40's? Having images of Syrians (not Europeans which is the whole point of Brexit surely?!) flooding into the Country, 65 million Turks coming into our Country. Let's face it, Brexit is a money making scheme to de-nationalise the Health Service to sell off to Insurance companies in the UK and US, and have done an excellent job of making a large proportion of the population forget about humanity and solely about their own irrational fears.

A 15 year old profile with 28 posts. At least have the bollox to admit who you are. Without having a revert to a fake cover profile, in order to have a rant.
Pillock.

[i961pie]

I had a modest bet on the Brexit party to win Peterborough at 5/6 just before the EU elections when it became apparent they would win most seats in that one. I struggle to understand how they can be voted into parliament however when they have no policies on the important issues like health, education etc. It seems politics today begins and ends with Brexit for many.

It is called a protest vote, they will probably lose the seat at a general election.

[navypie]

A 15 year old profile with 28 posts. At least have the bollox to admit who you are. Without having a revert to a fake cover profile, in order to have a rant.
Pillock.

There are more reds on this board than yours at the moment dicky.

[forwardmagpie]

I had a modest bet on the Brexit party to win Peterborough at 5/6 just before the EU elections when it became apparent they would win most seats in that one. I struggle to understand how they can be voted into parliament however when they have no policies on the important issues like health, education etc. It seems politics today begins and ends with Brexit for many.

Looks like you may have lost your money Elite - web sites are saying Labour win.

[Elite_Pie]

Looks like you may have lost your money Elite - web sites are saying Labour win.

Just like when I bet on Notts to lose, I would be happy if the bookies keep my money on this one. If Labour do win, there are a few possible reasons why. One is that many people think Labour are a credible choice to govern, which I don't believe for a minute. The Tories are deservedly as popular as dogsh!t at the moment, but it seems that the Brexit party aren't picking up all of their disgruntled supporters. If people are finally seeing Farage for the arsehole he is, I see that as a positive.

[the_anticlough]

Two things stood out from the press reports on Labour's election win last night

1) Farage was there but left by the back door just before the result was announced to avoid the media

2) The Brexit candidate gesturing behind the back of the winner like a delinquent kid during the acceptance speech

Low level behaviour on both counts

[the_anticlough]

The UKIP vote of just 400 is also interesting.

They've been completely dumped by the media. All the focus went with the tory stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS. The BBC for one were more than happy to shift all attention to the personal vehicle of the Establishment's main man - Farage.

It'd be true now to call UKIP anti-establishment and with no coverage it's hardly surprising that they are going under. But Farage and his one man pied piper act is an establishment con

[forwardmagpie]

The UKIP vote of just 400 is also interesting.

They've been completely dumped by the media. All the focus went with the tory stockbroker who wants to privatise the NHS. The BBC for one were more than happy to shift all attention to the personal vehicle of the Establishment's main man - Farage.

It'd be true now to call UKIP anti-establishment and with no coverage it's hardly surprising that they are going under. But Farage and his one man pied piper act is an establishment con

You sometimes speak sense and sometimes you don’t.

UKIP have failed because of bad organisation, repeated change of leaders and stupid decisions like Tommy Robinson.
Although the establishment BBC would like to ignore Mr Farage it’s too difficult even for them when he gets around 30% of the vote.

Watch the BBC carefully how many leavers were on question time last night?

[the_anticlough]

You sometimes speak sense and sometimes you don’t.

UKIP have failed because of bad organisation, repeated change of leaders and stupid decisions like Tommy Robinson.
Although the establishment BBC would like to ignore Mr Farage it’s too difficult even for them when he gets around 30% of the vote.

Watch the BBC carefully how many leavers were on question time last night?

I could easily say the same to you but prefer to call it agreement and disagreement to avoid being a dick ;)

Those factors are real for sure. But I've got a different take. When a party grows as big as UKIP did, competes at the national level and has that number of working class supporters it has to be more than a single-issue party. As soon as that single-issue was (half) finished, Farage bailed out and at THAT POINT, most of the media coverage the party had earned left with it. They continued following the tory stockbroker but turned their noses up at the working-class party he left behind. It should have been the other way around.

This has to be part of the reason UKIP collapsed at the 2017 General election and has been in a tailspin ever since.

[navypie]

Two things stood out from the press reports on Labour's election win last night

1) Farage was there but left by the back door just before the result was announced to avoid the media

2) The Brexit candidate gesturing behind the back of the winner like a delinquent kid during the acceptance speech

Low level behaviour on both counts

Just remind me again why the by election was called in the first place.

[the_anticlough]

Just remind me again why the by election was called in the first place.

Yes, it is because of our new Recall Petition system for MPs.

Next up is tory MP Chris Davies who was convicted of a false expenses claim. He faked invoices to get extra budget.

I think the result should be in the next week or so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-48200335

[Elite_Pie]

Just remind me again why the by election was called in the first place.

The reasons are obvious, which is why a Labour win was a bit of a pleasant surprise to me.

[forwardmagpie]

I could easily say the same to you but prefer to call it agreement and disagreement to avoid being a dick ;)

Those factors are real for sure. But I've got a different take. When a party grows as big as UKIP did, competes at the national level and has that number of working class supporters it has to be more than a single-issue party. As soon as that single-issue was (half) finished, Farage bailed out and at THAT POINT, most of the media coverage the party had earned left with it. They continued following the tory stockbroker but turned their noses up at the working-class party he left behind. It should have been the other way around.

This has to be part of the reason UKIP collapsed at the 2017 General election and has been in a tailspin ever since.

So because I think sometimes you rant rather than argue sensibly I’m a dick 🤔

Mr Farage “bailed” as you call it 3 months after the referendum was won by leave (although he did have a brief time as acting leader later that year).

What else did he need to do, he hadn’t been part of the official leave campaign and wasn’t part of the ongoing negotiations.

UKIP continued to be a news story long after he left but the constant leadership stories may not have interested you as it wasn’t Mr Farage.

[the_anticlough]

So because I think sometimes you rant rather than argue sensibly I’m a dick ��

Mr Farage “bailed” as you call it 3 months after the referendum was won by leave (although he did have a brief time as acting leader later that year).

What else did he need to do, he hadn’t been part of the official leave campaign and wasn’t part of the ongoing negotiations.

UKIP continued to be a news story long after he left but the constant leadership stories may not have interested you as it wasn’t Mr Farage.

Being a news story is not the same as being given a fair crack of the whip in the media.

Farage's "opinion' was elicited in countless Question Times, news interviews, quick opinion pieces. More than UKIP, Green, Lib Dem and SNP combined probably.

My point is that the establishment has been breaking its neck to give as much exposure as possible to One Man only, who just happens to be a tory stockbroker, in tow to Trump, with a plan to privatise anything that moves, including the NHS.

[ncfcog]

Farage, Bojo, Corbyn, May, Abbott, Gove, Sourby et al . . . all media gold regardless of their political in-persuasions. It's like a real life series of Spitting Image, only those puppets from the 80's had more about them!

[Bohinen]

UKIP have failed because of bad organisation, repeated change of leaders and stupid decisions like Tommy Robinson.


That's the problem though, as soon as a pro-Brexit party gets some momentum, right-wing nuts jobs (like a few on here, not you) attach themselves to it and start using it as a vehicle to attack the left. But there will always be a left, probably not enough to govern, but there will always be 30% or so and they won't go away. Farage realises that not all Brexit supporters are right wing and deliberately tries to appeal to everyone. But with candidates as moronic as the hand gesturing child that stood in Peterborough, he may have trouble keeping everyone on board.

[forwardmagpie]

Being a news story is not the same as being given a fair crack of the whip in the media.

Farage's "opinion' was elicited in countless Question Times, news interviews, quick opinion pieces. More than UKIP, Green, Lib Dem and SNP combined probably.

My point is that the establishment has been breaking its neck to give as much exposure as possible to One Man only, who just happens to be a tory stockbroker, in tow to Trump, with a plan to privatise anything that moves, including the NHS.

I think your point is basically wrong as all those other parties including various Ukip leaders, Caroline Lucas, Tim Farron, Vince Cable, Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford etc have been constantly in the media since the EU vote.

I also think it would be refreshing for a post not to include, tory stockbroker, privatisation of the NHS etc as though this has a bearing on everything discussed.

NHS privatisation is the Tories and Liberal Democrats according to left foot forward !!

https://leftfootforward.org/2019/06/it-is-time-people-got-real-on-the-eu-and-the-nhs/

[sidders]

Delighted with the Peterborough result. Not so much for who won as who lost. Far from this proving the Brexit party are smashing the old system (as Farrago would have you believe), it shows that when it comes to serious representation at Westminster level the electorate freeze at the notion of a party led by a man with National Front initials.

[navypie]

Yes, it is because of our new Recall Petition system for MPs.

Next up is tory MP Chris Davies who was convicted of a false expenses claim. He faked invoices to get extra budget.

I think the result should be in the next week or so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-48200335

Yer like a Pound Shop version of Big Fat Pie.

[the_anticlough]

I think your point is basically wrong as all those other parties including various Ukip leaders, Caroline Lucas, Tim Farron, Vince Cable, Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford etc have been constantly in the media since the EU vote.

I also think it would be refreshing for a post not to include, tory stockbroker, privatisation of the NHS etc as though this has a bearing on everything discussed.

NHS privatisation is the Tories and Liberal Democrats according to left foot forward !!

https://leftfootforward.org/2019/06/it-is-time-people-got-real-on-the-eu-and-the-nhs/

That's just not what I observe. Each of those people you mention should have had more media profile than Farage, especially after he bailed out of his party. Seriously, does Caroline Lucas a leader of a national party, appear even half the times Farage did when he was no more than Trump's cheerleader? No, not even close.

As for selling off the NHS and having a tory neoliberal agenda... for me, I can't separate the man from what he stands for and his privately educated, stockbroker and tory party background is relevant to this thread ''the establishment is out to get Nigel''

[the_anticlough]

Yer like a Pound Shop version of Big Fat Pie.

A Big Fat Pie for a pound, that even beats Greggs. Count me in

[dam617]

The reasons are obvious, which is why a Labour win was a bit of a pleasant surprise to me.

Considering how many addresses in Peterborough have up to 15 registered voters it's not a surprise to me.
All postal votes of course - they must have been watching the football.

Anyway, it was close - let them have a second go - preferably during the Hajj.

[drillerpie]

Considering how many addresses in Peterborough have up to 15 registered voters it's not a surprise to me

How many such addresses are there?

[Notsohumblepie]

Who’s Wolfie Smith?

I bet you’re the sort of bloke who now refuses to go through the EU bit of passport control.

Citizen Smith was a British television sitcom written by John Sullivan, first broadcast from 1977 to 1980.
It starred Robert Lindsay as "Wolfie" Smith, a young Marxist "urban guerrilla" in Tooting, south London, who is attempting to emulate his hero Che Guevara. Wolfie is a reference to the Irish revolutionary Wolfe Tone, who used the pseudonym Citizen Smith in order to evade capture by the British.
Wolfie is the self-proclaimed leader of the revolutionary Tooting Popular Front (the TPF), merely a small bunch of his friends, the goals of which are "Power to the People" and "Freedom for Tooting". In reality, he is unemployed , and a delusional idiot, with plans that fail through his apathy, ineptitude and inexperience.

You might want to buy the box sets, 10.76 on Amazon, I believe .

[dam617]

How many such addresses are there?

Hang on, I'll go and count them.
Postal voting fraud amongst a certain section of society is as old as the hills and it's always pro Labour votes.
It's increased due to the ' Magic Grandpa' effect.

Anyway, when's the Peterborough People's Vote happening?

[BigFatPie]

A Big Fat Pie for a pound, that even beats Greggs. Count me in

I prefer a tart myself. Hehehe. Q

[BigFatPie]

Just seen the letter that Farridge handed in to 10 Downing Street.

It reads like it was written by a f00kin idiot. Which I presume it was.

[drillerpie]

Hang on, I'll go and count them.
Postal voting fraud amongst a certain section of society is as old as the hills and it's always pro Labour votes.
It's increased due to the ' Magic Grandpa' effect.

Anyway, when's the Peterborough People's Vote happening?

You may be right but you said "considering the number of..." but it seems like you don't know the number, so how can you consider it?

Where did you hear it? Didn't they tell you the exact number to better illustrate their case? If they didn't why not?

[Bushwacka]

Postal voting fraud amongst a certain section of society is as old as the hills and it's always pro Labour votes.

Got no massive interest in the politics threads on here but that's pure tinfoil hat stuff that mate, along with pencils in polling stations.

Where's this idea that there's loads of 'sections of society' that are desperate to commit postal voting fraud come from? And if it's ethnic 'sections of society' you're talking about, they're well behind the national average for registering to vote.

Don't believe everything you read on Facebook.

[dam617]

Got no massive interest in the politics threads on here but that's pure tinfoil hat stuff that mate, along with pencils in polling stations.

Where's this idea that there's loads of 'sections of society' that are desperate to commit postal voting fraud come from? And if it's ethnic 'sections of society' you're talking about, they're well behind the national average for registering to vote.

Don't believe everything you read on Facebook.

Facebook? Arf, I've never been on it.
Open your eyes.
Google Search 'electoral fraud' and it becomes obvious why no one dare say **** all about it, let alone do anything about it.

[BigFatPie]

Facebook? Arf, I've never been on it.
Open your eyes.
Google Search 'electoral fraud' and it becomes obvious why no one dare say **** all about it, let alone do anything about it.

Righto.

Blaming losing on the Muslims?

The Brexit Company is a rebranded Ukip, which was the BNP in suits.

[navypie]

I prefer a tart myself. Hehehe. Q

Hehehe. Was the Q supposed to be an emoji? You can always try using one like any other idiot. Q

[dam617]

Righto.

Blaming losing on the Muslims?

The Brexit Company is a rebranded Ukip, which was the BNP in suits.

Not a sausage on here from the pearl clutchers and hand-wringers about the Boris Bus prosecution money going up in smoke.

Net or Gross? Simple as that.

Trebles all round for some though.

[navypie]

Righto.

Blaming losing on the Muslims?

The Brexit Company is a rebranded Ukip, which was the BNP in suits.

I'm with you on this one big man. Despite numerous reports about election fraud amongst the Asian community, where is the proof? Maybe if we didn't have to tiptoe around the issue we could find it.