Scary Article in the Mirror Newspaper

[NottsOnTheUp]

Worrying

Mirror seem to be saying more than others reporting in terms of amount of Tax debt.

Also they say NEITHER.TAKEOVER DEALS CLOSE!

Worrying!

[ForeignLegion]

Worrying or scary...which one?

[NottsOnTheUp]

Worrying

Mirror seem to be saying more than others reporting in terms of amount of Tax debt.

Also they say NEITHER.TAKEOVER DEALS CLOSE!

Worrying!


It’s also reporting that the Football League may ask for a bond for next season

[theory_extinct]

It’s also reporting that the Football League may ask for a bond for next season

Which is a standard part of their rules. So, The Mirror read the rules and reported what COULD happen. Not what IS actually happening.

[ForeignLegion]

200k a year? Jesus, is that what L2 bosses get paid?

[DaveSmithRules]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/notts-countys-woes-could-even-16250948

Sad if true. But hardly surprising.

[theory_extinct]

200k a year? Jesus, is that what L2 bosses get paid?

No, the average for the last few years has been about £50k

[ForeignLegion]

So are the Mirror talking cr@ap or has NA struck lucky with AH?

[theory_extinct]

So are the Mirror talking cr@ap or has NA struck lucky with AH?

The truth probably sits somewhere in between. Newspapers rarely get it right when it comes to clubs though.

[DaveSmithRules]

Tbh I'm not against us paying a manager well. We only need one of them. Although 200k pa is probably too much for non league.

[McCullochisGod]

No, the average for the last few years has been about £50k

Double that and you will be closer

[McCullochisGod]

Looking at that I feel we could be on our way to doing a Scar'boro. It does not look good.

[HAPPYMAGPIEHAPPY]

What an absolute disaster that has been created, I wonder who is responsible ?

[Chicken Balti Pie]

Does this guy actually know what's going on? He claimed the other week Smurfwaite was about to take over...

[Notts78]

Looking at that I feel we could be on our way to doing a Scar'boro. It does not look good.

Jesus, if every time I believed what I read I would never leave the house, or would I? The point is that most news is dramatised so people take notice.
We all knew the figure was around the 200k mark, the tax bill, not Ardleys salary.
Where has 800k come from?
Also, neither consortium is close to a deal. Yet the SA put out a statement saying that they felt the deal was close and lawyers were now going over the finer details.
Look, it’s worrying, the silence is deafening, and that’s the killer. But if their is nothing to say, and nothing to worry about, I am comfortable with the lack of an update. If as reported, **** is happening, and we are being kept in the dark, without an opportunity to help in any way we as fans can, then the **** will hit the fan.

[LaxtonLad]

The truth probably sits somewhere in between. Newspapers rarely get it right when it comes to clubs though.

The Mirror used to be one of the better tabloids a few years ago but then it started to copy the flashy style and gutter content of such as the Sun and the Star. It is now as trashy as any of them and I wouldn't even believe the date on the front page.

[BigFatPie]

F00k me, someone please confirm that we’re not paying Ardley 4 grand a week. We deserve to go bust just for that.

Also, the article treats administration and liquidation as the same thing. Aren’t they completely different? Liquidation is game over isn’t it?

[ForeignLegion]

When I was in the UK in the 80's, I always considered the Mirror to be a rung or two above the Sun and Star. I would never have considered it to be one of the "better tabloids." Maybe that shows how far the rest have sunk into the gutter.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

F00k me, someone please confirm that we’re not paying Ardley 4 grand a week. We deserve to go bust just for that.

Also, the article treats administration and liquidation as the same thing. Aren’t they completely different? Liquidation is game over isn’t it?

You're correct. HMRC use a winding up order as a way of pushing for their money but if it does go into administration or liquidation, they probably won't get their money back. If we give them a reasonable view that the takeover will be done very soon, they will most likely seek a delay as well so they get the whole amount

[legs77]

200k a year? Jesus, is that what L2 bosses get paid?

No wonder he won't quit if that figure is true !

[The_Don_ORiordan]

The HMRC cannot force us into administration they can only liquidate us. Administration is the last option to avoid liquidation. In effect it protects your company from direct legal proceedings to recover those debts. The rider being that an administrator has to be appointed to work effectively on behalf of those owed money to find a way to pay them.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Despite the inaccuracies of the article, unless there is a real possibility of takeover imminently, it will be administration or liquidation tomorrow.

[jonnyt1]

Correct, Hardy will have to either pay the bill (he said he would), put us into Administration or convince the court that a takeover is very close.

Otherwise we will be liquidated and cease to exist.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

If Hardy has the money, why didn’t he try to use it to save Paragon? He is skint.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

And as to the 800k figure. Staff will have been paid since the last hearing. It doesn’t take much to rack up 600k of paye on the wages we have been paying.

[Bushwacka]

200k a year? Jesus, is that what L2 bosses get paid?

Even Hardy's not stupid enough to give 200k a year to an unemployed manager who's just been sacked from his last job. It's not as if there was a clamour for his services. There was probably a hefty bonus in the contract if we'd stayed up that would have pushed the rate towards that, which would have proved worth it, but I'd hope his basic was less than half of that.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

Even Hardy's not stupid enough to give 200k a year to an unemployed manager who's just been sacked from his last job. It's not as if there was a clamour for his services. There was probably a hefty bonus in the contract if we'd stayed up that would have pushed the rate towards that, which would have proved worth it, but I'd hope his basic was less than half of that.

The £200k may include the rent on the house he and Cox share up here as well?

[legs77]

If Hardy has the money, why didn’t he try to use it to save Paragon? He is skint.

Depends what you mean by skint.....no doubt he has lost money but I doubt he will be going to the homeless shelter tomorrow night.

Basically he has gambled everything and cost people their jobs at Paragon & maybe at Notts too.

[HAPPYMAGPIEHAPPY]

Despite the inaccuracies of the article, unless there is a real possibility of takeover imminently, it will be administration or liquidation tomorrow.

After getting the high court extension last time to complete the takeover surely this time if hardy does ask for a two week extension then they would need to see actual proof or names in court before agreeing to it, the high court is catching up with us fans and gradually seeing that Hardy is full of **** !

[LaughingMagpie]

If Hardy has the money, why didn’t he try to use it to save Paragon? He is skint.
For the same reason Jamie Oliver didn't use his own money to save his restaurant chain.

In these situations you look after number one.

[LaughingMagpie]

Sounds like this reporter gets his info from Scoop Curtis.

[SmiffyPie]

Even Hardy's not stupid enough to give 200k a year to an unemployed manager who's just been sacked from his last job. It's not as if there was a clamour for his services.You would be surprised at the lengths AH took to get NA to sign on the dotted line.

[theory_extinct]

If this was the same reporter who broke the news on Munto, I'd be worried. As it is, not so much. This reporter has already been wrong once. Smells like a phishing exercise, to make a story by getting someone from the club to dispute what was written. Hardy is prime target for that sort of thing.

[countygump]

You would be surprised at the lengths AH took to get NA to sign on the dotted line.

Not sure what sort of money N/A is on but IMO he ain't worth £200 a week.

Every day we log onto this board hoping for a bit of good news after a season of absolute sheite but instead it's like 4kin groundhog day. Will this nightmare ever end???

[ivansneck]

Not sure what sort of money N/A is on but IMO he ain't worth £200 a week.

Every day we log onto this board hoping for a bit of good news after a season of absolute sheite but instead it's like 4kin groundhog day. Will this nightmare ever end???

Bit harsh, £200 a week isn’t a lot

[TouchEm]

Double that and you will be closer

I take it you were you took part in contract talks then McG

[SwalePie]

Now regurgitated by Barry Cooper at the E. Po....

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/protracted-notts-county-takeover-not-2938056

My suspicion is that they [The Mirror] are trying to flush information from Hardy or the SA group.

Meanwhile Mr. Curtis seems more upbeat...(or at least less downbeat and sensationalist)

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/notts-county-lookout-new-training-2936923

Here's how I see it, for what it's worth...

Apparently there is a small but real mathematical chance that Meadow Lane 'could' be hit by meteorite or perhaps suffer a localised earthquake, administration, plague, pestilence or even liquidation. Clearly this is all the fault of devil-horned chairman Alan Hardy - already a figure of vitriolic hatred and mass ad hominem attacks all over the interwebs, presumably as he failed to score enough goals to keep Notts in the Football League last season. Plus he only lost his biggest company as a result of his half-hearted investment of only three times the League Two average budget.

Alternatively the club could perhaps be in the hands of well funded new owners within a week or so. Meanwhile the allegedly non-existent South African consortium is reportedly eyeing a new training ground site they've identified and attempting to close the deal to buy the club, perhaps within the next week.

[DelroyFacey22]

F00k me, someone please confirm that we’re not paying Ardley 4 grand a week. We deserve to go bust just for that.

Not completely out of this world considering some of the players were/are on a similar weekly wage or more. Didn't Sir Alex say that players should never earn more than the manager? Ardley was probably in a decent bargaining position too considering Hardy didn't mind him finishing his holiday before he started.

I'd imagine Nolan and Kewell were (and therefore still are) on similar money, if not more.

[slack_pie]

Not sure what sort of money N/A is on but IMO he ain't worth £200 a week.

Every day we log onto this board hoping for a bit of good news after a season of absolute sheite but instead it's like 4kin groundhog day. Will this nightmare ever end???

No, but you have to stop fighting it. Let the ****e wash over you!

Seriously though, I'm closing to not giving a **** anymore (obviously not true, but still).

[LaxtonLad]

When I was in the UK in the 80's, I always considered the Mirror to be a rung or two above the Sun and Star. I would never have considered it to be one of the "better tabloids." Maybe that shows how far the rest have sunk into the gutter.

Perhaps I should have said it was better than the Sun and Star, it isn't now. And you are right, the rest have sunked. It may just be a matter of your political persuasion but nowadays the Daily Mail is considered by some to be so right wing as to be categorised as a propagander tool for the Tory party.

I'm of the opinion that newspapers are nowadays so full of sensationalism and political propaganda that they no longer should be called "news"papers.

[Simon the Pieman]

Daily Mirror...the thinking man's bin liner.
When we leave can we start eating our fish and chips out of newspaper?

[countygump]

You know if someone sez the word, 'ongoing', just once more, I'll..................grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.





12864

[SwalePie]

Several relevant tweets from Mr Curtis just now, including this one:

"From what I understand, the SA group want to purchase the club debt free I.E pay the debts themselves but anything after completion AH would be liable for."

https://twitter.com/LeighCurtis_NP/with_replies

[SwalePie]

You know if someone sez the word, 'ongoing', just once more, I'll..................grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


That grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr was a bit ongoing

[Chicken Balti Pie]

Several relevant tweets from Mr Curtis just now, including this one:

"From what I understand, the SA group want to purchase the club debt free I.E pay the debts themselves but anything after completion AH would be liable for."

https://twitter.com/LeighCurtis_NP/with_replies

That is where the hold up lays then. What a wonderful way to do a secondary due diligence? Hardy will no doubt be making double sure their are no hidden skeletons

[BigFatPie]

Several relevant tweets from Mr Curtis just now, including this one:

"From what I understand, the SA group want to purchase the club debt free I.E pay the debts themselves but anything after completion AH would be liable for."

https://twitter.com/LeighCurtis_NP/with_replies

This doesn’t make any sense to me. They’re going to pay all the debts, but Hardy’s going to have to pay the debts they don’t pay??

[SwalePie]

This doesn’t make any sense to me. They’re going to pay all the debts, but Hardy’s going to have to pay the debts they don’t pay??

I read it as meaning that anything further which only came to light after completion would be down to AH, which seems a sensible plan to me.

[Amsterdan1]

This doesn’t make any sense to me. They’re going to pay all the debts, but Hardy’s going to have to pay the debts they don’t pay??

There is a process known as "disclosure" within commercial deals. Effectively the seller has to disclose all material facts including debts etc. Any that are not disclosed by error or concealment come back to bite the seller by a "warranties and indemnities" section of the Sale and Purchase agreement.

[SmiffyPie]

This doesn’t make any sense to me. They’re going to pay all the debts, but Hardy’s going to have to pay the debts they don’t pay??Does if they think there may be debts undeclared.

[countygump]

I read it as meaning that anything further which only came to light after completion would be down to AH, which seems a sensible plan to me.

Like Alan's i Phone bill. All those picture messages will cost?

[slack_pie]

I read it as meaning that anything further which only came to light after completion would be down to AH, which seems a sensible plan to me.

I thought the point of the due diligence process was to make sure there are no skeletons in the closet.

And on and on it drags...

[SwalePie]

I thought the point of the due diligence process was to make sure there are no skeletons in the closet.

And on and on it drags...

There's always a risk of further unknown closets coming to light, never mind skellybobs.

[forwardmagpie]

There's always a risk of further unknown closets coming to light, never mind skellybobs.

Which is covered usually by retentions (if they are paying enough for retentions be of any use) mmmm

[Observerpie]

Has the milk bill been paid?

[bouncingoffthewalls]

Which is covered usually by retentions (if they are paying enough for retentions be of any use) mmmm

No point of retentions when the company they are going to will be liquidated in a few weeks time.

[LaxtonLad]

There is a process known as "disclosure" within commercial deals. Effectively the seller has to disclose all material facts including debts etc. Any that are not disclosed by error or concealment come back to bite the seller by a "warranties and indemnities" section of the Sale and Purchase agreement.

I think this "disclosure" process may be familiar to our Alan. It's what didn't happen when he bought the club from Ray Trew. Many times he told us about extra bills and debts he inherited and had to pay personally - unless these were passed on and paid by Paragon and called "loans"?

As you might guess, I haven't a clue how these things work.

[forwardmagpie]

No point of retentions when the company they are going to will be liquidated in a few weeks time.

Scratches head - retentions are monies you don't pay the seller until you are satisfied all warranties have been met.

[BigFatPie]

I thought the point of the due diligence process was to make sure there are no skeletons in the closet.

And on and on it drags...

Yes, exactly. Due diligence always seems like a big part of these deals, but both Hardy and Trew have complained about what they’ve found after the deal is done.

It’s good i suppose if the potential new owners have enough about them to stop it happening again.

[theory_extinct]

Sunderland had a similar situation last summer with debts that surfaced after the takeover. Ellis Short settled them. Sounds like the South Africans are doing things properly. Taking that as a positive. We may finally see Notts run like a proper business.

[Old_pie]

This doesn’t make any sense to me. They’re going to pay all the debts, but Hardy’s going to have to pay the debts they don’t pay??

Is the situation clear as to the demands of the Paragon Administrators over the loans made to Notts? Because if these might still be called upon then I wouldn't want the liability if I was a buyer, and it is/was AH's company so I'd say "Your problem mate or no deal".

I'd still wait to buy the company from the Adminstrators despite the points hike. Easier to deal with than AH for one.

[bouncingoffthewalls]

Scratches head - retentions are monies you don't pay the seller until you are satisfied all warranties have been met.

What I meant was that as the parent company will be gone very soon, retentions are not going to suit Hardy in the slightest he will want every penny he can get right now out the buyers, even if he ends up with less overall.

[forwardmagpie]

What I meant was that as the parent company will be gone very soon, retentions are not going to suit Hardy in the slightest he will want every penny he can get right now out the buyers, even if he ends up with less overall.

Thanks for the clarification, what Hardy wants and what buyer will give him are probably two very different things.

[Bushwacka]

I'd still wait to buy the company from the Adminstrators despite the points hike.
Yep. I don't think any Notts fans are taking the National League for granted but I reckon investing a quarter of the money (wisely) you saved from picking the club up out of administration as opposed to buying it now would give you more than a decent shot at a season's consolidation, even with the points penalty and then look to build for promotion back within a year or two after that.

[Oldstripy]

The problem with going into administration is we might not get the owners we want, the administrator will take the offer that gets the most money for the creditors.

[Bushwacka]

The problem with going into administration is we might not get the owners we want, the administrator will take the offer that gets the most money for the creditors.

Is it open bidding if it goes into Admin? You'd like to think that the SAs would still be prepared to offer more than Smurthwaite/May/whatever fly by night that has a punt at it.

[pielover]

Maybe I'm misreading this but aren't the prospective owners stringing Hardy along until we get put in administration?

Why take on millions in debt when you can own the club for next to nothing?

[legs77]

Maybe I'm misreading this but aren't the prospective owners stringing Hardy along until we get put in administration?

Why take on millions in debt when you can own the club for next to nothing?

They could try that tactic but as the poster above says the club goes to whoever offers most.

Tomorrow will tell us if the HMRC bill is going to be paid as AH said it would.

Lets be honest it looks like cowboys are going to be the owners next season and I include AH in that.

[SwalePie]

Lets be honest it looks like cowboys are going to be the owners next season and I include AH in that.

We don't know who are going to be the owners, so it's hard to 'be honest' about anything of the sort really.

[GranthamPie]

So so pleased I have NOT renewed my ST

[Chicken Balti Pie]

They could try that tactic but as the poster above says the club goes to whoever offers most.

Tomorrow will tell us if the HMRC bill is going to be paid as AH said it would.

Lets be honest it looks like cowboys are going to be the owners next season and I include AH in that.

How do you get that? By following due process and not rushing into things they are cowboys? Last two owners rushed into it and also turned out to be cowboys, what does it take not to be a cowboy? 😂

[legs77]

How do you get that? By following due process and not rushing into things they are cowboys? Last two owners rushed into it and also turned out to be cowboys, what does it take not to be a cowboy? 😂

I dont know anything for sure but it is just a gut feeling I have.

This is all on Hardy and i'm not blaming anyone else talk is he wants another 2 weeks and we all know what his 7-10 days are like.

We could be looking at mid/end June for a takeover which puts us way behind everyone else ....this is something Colin Slater hinted at a while back.

[Nigel_M]

Maybe I'm misreading this but aren't the prospective owners stringing Hardy along until we get put in administration?

Why take on millions in debt when you can own the club for next to nothing?

I'd be amazed if any of the prospective new owners are willing to take on much of the debt owed to Hardy.

However under EFL rules even in administration all football creditors have to be paid. You have to pay all outstanding transfer fees, all monies you owe for tickets sold for away games, and take on all the players' contracts. You cannot therefore avoid a whole load of the debts that the club most likely owes.

Conference rules are even tougher in that you have to settle all debts within 3 years - I think we have a 1 year exemption from the conference rules but not sure exactly how this works.

I think you also have to have an agreed exit from administration - ie the creditors have to agree - otherwise you get a 2nd points deduction.

So the choice for the buyer is not as simple as will it cost less? Maybe you can dodge a few bills but you will then probably lose a season due to the points penalty which will cost you money - not least as we only have 2 years of parachute payments. At worst you could suffer a 2nd relegation. You would then need to be sure how the lease on the ground could be moved over to the purchaser and you risk the administrator taking a slightly higher upfront cash offer from someone else. You might also not get control until the season starts.

So if you really want a loss making non-league football club the best bet is to give Hardy a few quid and get on with building a squad that can get you up next season. Faff about much longer and you may end up with a large points penalty, no squad to start the season, getting relegated again and trying to fund you way through an even bigger mess.

[1955pie]

They could try that tactic but as the poster above says the club goes to whoever offers most.

Tomorrow will tell us if the HMRC bill is going to be paid as AH said it would.

Lets be honest it looks like cowboys are going to be the owners next season and I include AH in that.

If property developers are to be our new owners, I'm not sure that a loss making football club will be top of their tick list. If we were liquidated they would still want to go ahead with the rest of the deal and also have a football ground to develop as well.

I may be wrong but is this the first time that we will have an owner who is not a football fan?

[SwalePie]

I'd be amazed if any of the prospective new owners are willing to take on much of the debt owed to Hardy.

However under EFL rules even in administration all football creditors have to be paid. You have to pay all outstanding transfer fees, all monies you owe for tickets sold for away games, and take on all the players' contracts. You cannot therefore avoid a whole load of the debts that the club most likely owes.

Conference rules are even tougher in that you have to settle all debts within 3 years - I think we have a 1 year exemption from the conference rules but not sure exactly how this works.

I think you also have to have an agreed exit from administration - ie the creditors have to agree - otherwise you get a 2nd points deduction.

So the choice for the buyer is not as simple as will it cost less? Maybe you can dodge a few bills but you will then probably lose a season due to the points penalty which will cost you money - not least as we only have 2 years of parachute payments. At worst you could suffer a 2nd relegation. You would then need to be sure how the lease on the ground could be moved over to the purchaser and you risk the administrator taking a slightly higher upfront cash offer from someone else. You might also not get control until the season starts.

So if you really want a loss making non-league football club the best bet is to give Hardy a few quid and get on with building a squad that can get you up next season. Faff about much longer and you may end up with a large points penalty, no squad to start the season, getting relegated again and trying to fund you way through an even bigger mess.

Good points made in that last paragraph ;)

[jackal2]

The HMRC cannot force us into administration they can only liquidate us. Administration is the last option to avoid liquidation. In effect it protects your company from direct legal proceedings to recover those debts. The rider being that an administrator has to be appointed to work effectively on behalf of those owed money to find a way to pay them.

This is true, but if Alan Hardy or the prospective owners aren't in a position to cough up the money or proof of imminent funds tomorrow, then surely the best protection would be to put the business into administration before the Court Hearing, rather than gamble everything on a game of extension or bust, relying on the goodwill of the HMRC and the judge.

Earlier this year, North Ferriby Utd FC were wound up because they couldn't pay a debt of just over £7,600!

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/north-ferriby-united-liquidated-owner-2649722