Set Pieces

[UbiqueLUFC33]

Why are we so utterly dreadful at offensive set pieces? I don't remember us scoring any goals from a corner this season and not much better from free kicks. Most teams achieve a reasonable rate of return from set pieces (for example, last night Bristol ****ty scored 2 goals from corners) but we never look threatening. Only Pablo looks like he might ever score from a free kick. Douglas arrived with the reputation of a great 'assist' provider but has done very little (last season or this). Phillips seems to have reasonable delivery but too often fails to even clear the first defender and if the ball does ever reach the danger (or, in our case - not so danger) area then nobody ever gets on the end of it.

Set pieces should make an important contribution to our goal tally - particulary important for us at the moment since we seem to find goals of any sort hard to come by.

So why is it that we are so sh1t at them?

[CalverleyBoy]

Why are we so utterly dreadful at offensive set pieces? I don't remember us scoring any goals from a corner this season and not much better from free kicks. Most teams achieve a reasonable rate of return from set pieces (for example, last night Bristol ****ty scored 2 goals from corners) but we never look threatening. Only Pablo looks like he might ever score from a free kick. Douglas arrived with the reputation of a great 'assist' provider but has done very little (last season or this). Phillips seems to have reasonable delivery but too often fails to even clear the first defender and if the ball does ever reach the danger (or, in our case - not so danger) area then nobody ever gets on the end of it.

Set pieces should make an important contribution to our goal tally - particulary important for us at the moment since we seem to find goals of any sort hard to come by.

So why is it that we are so sh1t at them?

Not enough height in the team, Alioski looked like a child against most of the Sheffield player

[bathlad61]

We also look very fragile / vulnerable, when defending corners etc, its obvious the MB likes ball playing CBs, but a Jansson / Barkley type player alongside White, would be ideal. With Whites current form, could be difficult to keep him on loan, which would be massive blow.

[UbiqueLUFC33]

We also look very fragile / vulnerable, when defending corners etc, its obvious the MB likes ball playing CBs, but a Jansson / Barkley type player alongside White, would be ideal. With Whites current form, could be difficult to keep him on loan, which would be massive blow.

If we lose White then I think that's probbaly game over :-(

[Rev72]

If we lose White then I think that's probbaly game over :-(


Thats the problem with loan players when the parent club insert the recall clause.

*Wonders if Man citeh will recall Harrison*

O:)

[UbiqueLUFC33]

Thats the problem with loan players when the parent club insert the recall clause.

*Wonders if Man citeh will recall Harrison*

O:)

We can but hope.

[Rev72]

Watched the lad we sold to Barnsley (Halme) play last night and have to say he looked pretty solid and scored a cracking header..think we would have been wiser to loan him rather than sell him given our lack of CB's.

[UbiqueLUFC33]

Watched the lad we sold to Barnsley (Halme) play last night and have to say he looked pretty solid and scored a cracking header..think we would have been wiser to loan him rather than sell him given our lack of CB's.

Yes I thought he had a good game for them. The commentators kept mispronouncing his name which was mildly annoying. I thought that Andreas Weimann played well for Sh1ty too; shame we don't have someone like him.

[LeedsFTW]

I get the impression we dont practise attacking set pieces, certainly not often enough. Long time since I saw a Leeds free kick where I thought that had been worked on at training.

As you point out, some teams survive in a league by relying heavily on getting those free kicks/corners.

[norfolk white]

Makes you wonder what they do in training, apart from lots of running.

[asturianblanco]

cant underestimate our lack of ideas when Pablo is out.

[Billyni]

Our set pieces are the equivalent of a goal kick to the opposition.
The opposition's set pieces are the equivalent of a penalty against us.

[norfolk white]

A corner is a free cross into the box, and a goalscoring opportunity every time, surely these are worked on in training, if not, why not.

[MrsORichSenior]

Tactical set ups .............


Had the pleasure of sitting in with an ex Leeds Utd pro old friend who explained to Irish media the current trend in the PL on how teams are set up whilst defending corners.He noted to me later how Bielsa's Leeds aren't only setting up to defend but to counter attack as well quickly from deep defensive positions.
(Liverpool,City and Chelsea on average launch a drilled counter attack from box to box inside 15 seconds) ..........which Mick McCarthy now uses to effect I was told.

This ploy had been used by Leeds effectively last season switching from a defensive to attacking point of view and again this season until injuries to our regular drilled full backs and also the enforced 'missing ball skills' of pass switching of Hernandez.

To be objective and fair it was further pointed out to me that presently we have a budget Championship team (squad) with a mix of honest hard working pro's working in tandem with youthful 'developing' players - unlike the PL sides above who've spent massive on world class 'pre-developed' players with further spending on exceptional developing young players from around the globe.............
It appears upon hearing this ex player views (now a international coach) on current matters at Leeds that some folks are far to quick in losing sight of the fact that we are still developing players that as of yet have still not found their ideal position let alone fulfilled potential that all evidently have in abundance.

What most impressed my 'learned friend' was all Leeds players "appreciation of space and technically ability" within it over 90 minutes of disciplined effort.
As ever he was also most impressed with the patience that Leeds supporters were showing with regard to Bielsa's approach.

Off thread on that magnificent Leeds support I was pleased to see the BBC documentary aired of how football in Berlin has come of age and how "genuine support" is so important to communities.The FSA (Football Supporters Europe) strives hard to promote such ethics and I hope a few Leeds fans on here around the globe will enjoy the ten minute short documentary (below link) that came about via the FSA team of translators.The effect of Bielsa and his inclusion of youth has had a positive effect on the local league coaches and school kids of Leeds who believe that nowadays they to can play for their local team one day.

Berlin Link ......... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OSzuLyqLIfI
MOT

[Billyni]

So we're going to get promoted then?

[Jezleeds]

Tactical set ups .............


Had the pleasure of sitting in with an ex Leeds Utd pro old friend who explained to Irish media the current trend in the PL on how teams are set up whilst defending corners.He noted to me later how Bielsa's Leeds aren't only setting up to defend but to counter attack as well quickly from deep defensive positions.
(Liverpool,City and Chelsea on average launch a drilled counter attack from box to box inside 15 seconds) ..........which Mick McCarthy now uses to effect I was told.

This ploy had been used by Leeds effectively last season switching from a defensive to attacking point of view and again this season until injuries to our regular drilled full backs and also the enforced 'missing ball skills' of pass switching of Hernandez.

To be objective and fair it was further pointed out to me that presently we have a budget Championship team (squad) with a mix of honest hard working pro's working in tandem with youthful 'developing' players - unlike the PL sides above who've spent massive on world class 'pre-developed' players with further spending on exceptional developing young players from around the globe.............
It appears upon hearing this ex player views (now a international coach) on current matters at Leeds that some folks are far to quick in losing sight of the fact that we are still developing players that as of yet have still not found their ideal position let alone fulfilled potential that all evidently have in abundance.

What most impressed my 'learned friend' was all Leeds players "appreciation of space and technically ability" within it over 90 minutes of disciplined effort.
As ever he was also most impressed with the patience that Leeds supporters were showing with regard to Bielsa's approach.

Off thread on that magnificent Leeds support I was pleased to see the BBC documentary aired of how football in Berlin has come of age and how "genuine support" is so important to communities.The FSA (Football Supporters Europe) strives hard to promote such ethics and I hope a few Leeds fans on here around the globe will enjoy the ten minute short documentary (below link) that came about via the FSA team of translators.The effect of Bielsa and his inclusion of youth has had a positive effect on the local league coaches and school kids of Leeds who believe that nowadays they to can play for their local team one day.

Berlin Link ......... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OSzuLyqLIfI
MOT


Did he say anything about the attacking set pieces?

The defence into attack strategy has been clear for some time in various teams, England included. The OP was about our lack of strategy when we have attacking set pieces - i remember at the start of MB's reign always being very excited about corners - we seemed to be scoring or nearly scoring on every one, including the one on the first day against Stoke by Cooper. Now as the original poster said we never look like scoring from free-kicks or corners - what's changed?

I also remember we had a set piece coach right at the start didnt we? And we were doing all sorts of interesting things with where the players were standing in the box whilst waiting for the corner, and various innovative tricks with the passes into the box. What's happened to him/that?

Genuine question as to what the ex-player may have said about the attacking set pieces?

I do think we miss Pablo in so many ways, and he's pretty key to free-kicks, but the corners are still being taken by Kalvin, it's just nobody is on the end of them and the variety and innovation seems to have disappeared.

[OldWhiteTaff]

A corner is a free cross into the box, and a goalscoring opportunity every time, surely these are worked on in training, if not, why not.

This is something that is really sticking out this season, and not just corners. Our game is massively focused on getting the ball wide and getting space to deliver balls into the box. But it doesn't seem to matter whether it's open play crosses, corners or free kicks, our delivery is very poor, either that or the positional play of our players in the box is poor (although maybe the one exacerbates the other - is it poor balls in or poor positioning?). Anyhow either way, the ratio of genuine goalscoring chances compared to crosses must be painfully small.

[MrsORichSenior]

Did he say anything about the attacking set pieces?

The defence into attack strategy has been clear for some time in various teams, England included. The OP was about our lack of strategy when we have attacking set pieces - i remember at the start of MB's reign always being very excited about corners - we seemed to be scoring or nearly scoring on every one, including the one on the first day against Stoke by Cooper. Now as the original poster said we never look like scoring from free-kicks or corners - what's changed?

I also remember we had a set piece coach right at the start didnt we? And we were doing all sorts of interesting things with where the players were standing in the box whilst waiting for the corner, and various innovative tricks with the passes into the box. What's happened to him/that?

Genuine question as to what the ex-player may have said about the attacking set pieces?

I do think we miss Pablo in so many ways, and he's pretty key to free-kicks, but the corners are still being taken by Kalvin, it's just nobody is on the end of them and the variety and innovation seems to have disappeared.



Jez
.............of course he mentions stuff about Leeds but I ain't the Leeds Mad Forum version of Poirot.
As a fan too he was happy to state why Bamford is still of interest to Big Mick whilst addressing members from the Irish Centre Leeds (off York Road)whilst handing over some freebie kits for the kids teams that I arranged a while back before a game.
For me as my friend will agree regarding football tactics - 'everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team' and that analogy is good enough for me as I travel,attend,enjoy live action and then go home.I never watch the pundit analysts and constant 'what if replays' they drool over after the event.End of.
Regarding any tactical views retrospectively expressed of late to me and others I'll share this because I think it's a fair assessment from a modest gentleman in the company of old friends.In response to the Leeds setup presently (bearing in mind injury,experience and ability) Bielsa is asking players to run beyond Bamford (the false nine scenario).That now requires Bamford to be a sole target (playmaker) positioned now more isolated upfront within the present setup which now asks players to run beyond our now false nine. This evidently enables us to keep possession extremely well still whilst hopefully releasing players into space which as we all know is not resulting in chances being taken from our midfield box runners beyond Bamford and that area has now been recently adjusted by changing the zonal areas to exploit for such runners which evidently recently has now seen goals.
The answer is obviously 'chances must be taken' if supplied via Bamford or put Bamford into the box and supply him which results in altering the supply route of the ball into zonal areas to maximise on - only Pablo gives that alternative supply option within the flowing attacking system we play but when he's not playing ........ ?
Leeds require another Pablo/Saiz rather than another striker apparently to be bought in and are active in that quest.The need for two up top which again would require system changes will not suit present available players I,understand.
Mick McCarthy likes the options that Bamford brings but there are issues over his recovery and associated matters before any International decisions are pursued I understand.
Aidan Butterworth (Ex Leeds '80/84),still living close to the city working as a Sportswear Rep, told me at a Leeds city of Diversity event at Leeds University Parkinson Building recently that Bamford needed more physicality to his game.Brian Dean (Ex Leeds '93/97),still lives in Leeds and now coaches at the club alongside his Serbia/Kosovo business interests in Europe is on record stating that Bamford needs to up his game now too as he's getting fitter.
So I gave objective views,IMO,only for interest and balance - not to be chastised,grilled or divert a threads initial theme.Opinion was given by a friend foremost who happens to be a fan albeit with football experience gained at all levels that he was happy to pass on,likewise with other 'fans' who have occupied the famed number nine of Leeds United.
I don't start many new Posts nowadays for 'reason of conflict' situations that may develop as above aptly demonstrates but I've tried to answer you in good faith.
MOT

[WTF11]

Jez
.............of course he mentions stuff about Leeds but I ain't the Leeds Mad Forum version of Poirot.
As a fan too he was happy to state why Bamford is still of interest to Big Mick whilst addressing members from the Irish Centre Leeds (off York Road)whilst handing over some freebie kits for the kids teams that I arranged a while back before a game.
For me as my friend will agree regarding football tactics - 'everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team' and that analogy is good enough for me as I travel,attend,enjoy live action and then go home.I never watch the pundit analysts and constant 'what if replays' they drool over after the event.End of.
Regarding any tactical views retrospectively expressed of late to me and others I'll share this because I think it's a fair assessment from a modest gentleman in the company of old friends.In response to the Leeds setup presently (bearing in mind injury,experience and ability) Bielsa is asking players to run beyond Bamford (the false nine scenario).That now requires Bamford to be a sole target (playmaker) positioned now more isolated upfront within the present setup which now asks players to run beyond our now false nine. This evidently enables us to keep possession extremely well still whilst hopefully releasing players into space which as we all know is not resulting in chances being taken from our midfield box runners beyond Bamford and that area has now been recently adjusted by changing the zonal areas to exploit for such runners which evidently recently has now seen goals.
The answer is obviously 'chances must be taken' if supplied via Bamford or put Bamford into the box and supply him which results in altering the supply route of the ball into zonal areas to maximise on - only Pablo gives that alternative supply option within the flowing attacking system we play but when he's not playing ........ ?
Leeds require another Pablo/Saiz rather than another striker apparently to be bought in and are active in that quest.The need for two up top which again would require system changes will not suit present available players I,understand.
Mick McCarthy likes the options that Bamford brings but there are issues over his recovery and associated matters before any International decisions are pursued I understand.
Aidan Butterworth (Ex Leeds '80/84),still living close to the city working as a Sportswear Rep, told me at a Leeds city of Diversity event at Leeds University Parkinson Building recently that Bamford needed more physicality to his game.Brian Dean (Ex Leeds '93/97),still lives in Leeds and now coaches at the club alongside his Serbia/Kosovo business interests in Europe is on record stating that Bamford needs to up his game now too as he's getting fitter.
So I gave objective views,IMO,only for interest and balance - not to be chastised,grilled or divert a threads initial theme.Opinion was given by a friend foremost who happens to be a fan albeit with football experience gained at all levels that he was happy to pass on,likewise with other 'fans' who have occupied the famed number nine of Leeds United.
I don't start many new Posts nowadays for 'reason of conflict' situations that may develop as above aptly demonstrates but I've tried to answer you in good faith.
MOT

"Answered", really? Lots of words, but answer came there none.

We're set pieces mentioned?

Was the issue of a set piece coach touched upon?

[MrsORichSenior]

Set piece = Pablo & Douglas missing.
Latest elite coach to Bielsa set up = Dean
WTF = I contribute nothing to Leeds United,I'm a glory hunter,I'll always put negativity before positivity,I watch Leeds matches if I can using illegal streams,I lose Leeds Mad lots of posters and now I respond as Jez.
Apart from that I note your question and suggest you read it again and put your hand in your pockets to help the club and support your team when digesting all facts.

MOT

[spaldy]

In the word of the brilliant "scholar" Mike Tyson. "Everyone has a plan until I punch him in the face".

Set Pieces and Restarts are the only time in football where you largely get to dictate rules of the attack.

It's great that MB wants to control the flow of the game when the ball is in play. Wish he was half as concerned about controlling restarts as he is in free play.

[Jezleeds]

Jez
.............of course he mentions stuff about Leeds but I ain't the Leeds Mad Forum version of Poirot.
As a fan too he was happy to state why Bamford is still of interest to Big Mick whilst addressing members from the Irish Centre Leeds (off York Road)whilst handing over some freebie kits for the kids teams that I arranged a while back before a game.
For me as my friend will agree regarding football tactics - 'everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team' and that analogy is good enough for me as I travel,attend,enjoy live action and then go home.I never watch the pundit analysts and constant 'what if replays' they drool over after the event.End of.
Regarding any tactical views retrospectively expressed of late to me and others I'll share this because I think it's a fair assessment from a modest gentleman in the company of old friends.In response to the Leeds setup presently (bearing in mind injury,experience and ability) Bielsa is asking players to run beyond Bamford (the false nine scenario).That now requires Bamford to be a sole target (playmaker) positioned now more isolated upfront within the present setup which now asks players to run beyond our now false nine. This evidently enables us to keep possession extremely well still whilst hopefully releasing players into space which as we all know is not resulting in chances being taken from our midfield box runners beyond Bamford and that area has now been recently adjusted by changing the zonal areas to exploit for such runners which evidently recently has now seen goals.
The answer is obviously 'chances must be taken' if supplied via Bamford or put Bamford into the box and supply him which results in altering the supply route of the ball into zonal areas to maximise on - only Pablo gives that alternative supply option within the flowing attacking system we play but when he's not playing ........ ?
Leeds require another Pablo/Saiz rather than another striker apparently to be bought in and are active in that quest.The need for two up top which again would require system changes will not suit present available players I,understand.
Mick McCarthy likes the options that Bamford brings but there are issues over his recovery and associated matters before any International decisions are pursued I understand.
Aidan Butterworth (Ex Leeds '80/84),still living close to the city working as a Sportswear Rep, told me at a Leeds city of Diversity event at Leeds University Parkinson Building recently that Bamford needed more physicality to his game.Brian Dean (Ex Leeds '93/97),still lives in Leeds and now coaches at the club alongside his Serbia/Kosovo business interests in Europe is on record stating that Bamford needs to up his game now too as he's getting fitter.
So I gave objective views,IMO,only for interest and balance - not to be chastised,grilled or divert a threads initial theme.Opinion was given by a friend foremost who happens to be a fan albeit with football experience gained at all levels that he was happy to pass on,likewise with other 'fans' who have occupied the famed number nine of Leeds United.
I don't start many new Posts nowadays for 'reason of conflict' situations that may develop as above aptly demonstrates but I've tried to answer you in good faith.
MOT

You're actually impossible to communicate with. I asked a genuine and simple question in response to an interesting post you made, and all you've done is have a go about it as if there's some kind of conflict in there.

It's up to you whether or not you post, but if you do, surely you would expect there to be discussion on what you post, or should it just be that you are the oracle and asking for more information or clarification is in some way wrong.

Unbelievable.

[Jezleeds]

And this is exactly why i spent most of last season not posting on here - so i guess you've done what you sarcastically accused other people do.

Glass houses. Stones.

[WTF11]

Set piece = Pablo & Douglas missing.
Latest elite coach to Bielsa set up = Dean
WTF = I contribute nothing to Leeds United,I'm a glory hunter,I'll always put negativity before positivity,I watch Leeds matches if I can using illegal streams,I lose Leeds Mad lots of posters and now I respond as Jez.
Apart from that I note your question and suggest you read it again and put your hand in your pockets to help the club and support your team when digesting all facts.

MOT

You sanctimonious tw4t!

I was following Leeds United (putting my hand in my pocket), before you were a drip on the end of your father's cock. I criticise where I think it's justified and praise the same (read my comments about Bamford, White Nketiah (even Casilla on occasion!) this season as an example). As someone with a PIP and little else as income, yes I'll watch via streams as I can't afford to put even more money in the pockets of the FA/EFL (because it's as sure as eggs are eggs that Leeds United get f00k all in comparison to the obscene amounts paid to PL club's, even though we command a larger worldwide audience than many of them, but you rick on and defend the likes if Sky and BT Sport if you will.).

As for losing posters from here, wtf do you think you're doing with your rambling, incoherent, missing-the-point in a disastrous attempt to sound intelligent, war and piece contribution on this thread?

You were asked direct, clear, concise questions given that you implied you had a contribution to make to the debate. Your response, as ever, failed to inform or enlighten, save to confirm just what a low opinion you have of everybody else and such an exalted opinion of yourself, well done.

[Billyni]

Booom

[Rev72]

Looks like its that time of the month.......

[WTF11]

Looks like its that time of the month.......

I for one don't have a "time of the month", although others might😉

[Tichi1]

I for one don't have a "time of the month", although others might��

All month is your time of the month matey!

[pete1967b]

Well nothing changes on here, same people having the same squabbles, need to grow up and learn to agree to disagree, there are more much more important things in life.

On the thread topic, has noone seen Phillips deliveries this season, from corners free kicks, superb second to none most of the time, i am afraid its the not so simple task of getting on the end of them that is the problem, and because the quality of them are so good its nothing to do with height.

[WTF11]

Well nothing changes on here, same people having the same squabbles, need to grow up and learn to agree to disagree, there are more much more important things in life.

On the thread topic, has noone seen Phillips deliveries this season, from corners free kicks, superb second to none most of the time, i am afraid its the not so simple task of getting on the end of them that is the problem, and because the quality of them are so good its nothing to do with height.

If I knew what I was disagreeing with Pete, I would have said so, what I won't sit back and take (accuse me of being juvenile or not), is the sanctimonious holier-than-thou hifg-minded twaddle from she who considers herself superior to all others.

On the thread topic, if agree that Phillips (and occasionally Dallas and even less occasionally Harrison), do deliver, although Phillips from dead ball situations is stand-out. As said elsewhere in the thread though and your point, we don't get anyone in the end if them. Yes we lack some height and strength, but that can't explain away all the wasted opportunities (hence the query about a set-piece coach, which I know we have had before but not sure of what we have at present, if anyone).

We wint get promoted if we have to rely on all our goals coming from open play, were not that lucky/productive

[WTF11]

Sorry about all the spilling mistooks, fat fungers.

[pete1967b]

If I knew what I was disagreeing with Pete, I would have said so, what I won't sit back and take (accuse me of being juvenile or not), is the sanctimonious holier-than-thou hifg-minded twaddle from she who considers herself superior to all others.

On the thread topic, if agree that Phillips (and occasionally Dallas and even less occasionally Harrison), do deliver, although Phillips from dead ball situations is stand-out. As said elsewhere in the thread though and your point, we don't get anyone in the end if them. Yes we lack some height and strength, but that can't explain away all the wasted opportunities (hence the query about a set-piece coach, which I know we have had before but not sure of what we have at present, if anyone).

We wint get promoted if we have to rely on all our goals coming from open play, were not that lucky/productive

I slightly disagree regarding scoring from open play, we should be far and away top scorers in league from open play chances, ( Maybe thats your point} That though has been debated before, bright side is our goals conceded second to none, get tother side of pitch sorted and we will be fine, get Pablo back fit and the underrated Forshaw ( whom i think has been sadly missed} then get Bamford or whoever hitting the net, not much to ask eh...

[WTF11]

I slightly disagree regarding scoring from open play, we should be far and away top scorers in league from open play chances, ( Maybe thats your point} That though has been debated before, bright side is our goals conceded second to none, get tother side of pitch sorted and we will be fine, get Pablo back fit and the underrated Forshaw ( whom i think has been sadly missed} then get Bamford or whoever hitting the net, not much to ask eh...

Not much!

[pete1967b]

Not much!

XD