O/T Coronavirus Thread (5)

[CAMiller]

Closed (4) as it had reached 1000 posts. Latest news not looking good and as often mentioned, the side effects of the virus are starting to take their toll.

One example here, and I thought women in the South of England were supposed to be classy?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/co-op-customer-smashes-wine-bottles-111741289.html

[millertop]

That’s how I feel when they don’t follow the ****ing rules

[caytonmiller]

You would have a melt down topsy if you went into schools in a morning. Took my granddaughter to school this week. It was like a cattle market. If you left a 2 MTR gap some fekin fat, legging wearing tattoo strooned mother would push in. Manners of a walrus.

And don't get me started on the ones who think it's there very own parking space on the yellow zigzag lines right outside the gates. We have 3 regulars at g daughter's school. All 3 work for NHS. Untouchable ATM

[millertop]

You would have a melt down topsy if you went into schools in a morning. Took my granddaughter to school this week. It was like a cattle market. If you left a 2 MTR gap some fekin fat, legging wearing tattoo strooned mother would push in. Manners of a walrus.

And don't get me started on the ones who think it's there very own parking space on the yellow zigzag lines right outside the gates. We have 3 regulars at g daughter's school. All 3 work for NHS. Untouchable ATM

XD I’ve heard all about it from a mate, not often he swears but I think he filled the swear tin up

[Brin]

You would have a melt down topsy if you went into schools in a morning. Took my granddaughter to school this week. It was like a cattle market. If you left a 2 MTR gap some fekin fat, legging wearing tattoo strooned mother would push in. Manners of a walrus.

And don't get me started on the ones who think it's there very own parking space on the yellow zigzag lines right outside the gates. We have 3 regulars at g daughter's school. All 3 work for NHS. Untouchable ATM

Get your mobile out while they're in their car and reckon to take a photo. That'll smarten them up.

[Brin]

Closed (4) as it had reached 1000 posts. Latest news not looking good and as often mentioned, the side effects of the virus are starting to take their toll.

One example here, and I thought women in the South of England were supposed to be classy?

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/co-op-customer-smashes-wine-bottles-111741289.html

in my previous working life, I was verbally threatened on more than one occasion as a Dixons store Manager . I came awfully close once to decking some loud mouth two hat who said he was going to knock me out. One of my colleagues grabbed my arm to restrain me but, there comes a time when enough is enough. Thankfully, I saw the errors of my ways and calmed down while someone else escorted him from the store.

I find it so concerning to see people working in stores, verbally abused/assaulted, and next to nothing being done to the scum that causes them grief.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

why isn't this all over the news?

The scandal of the false positives.

starts at 10minutes 25.

https://youtu.be/tDt8Te20I9I?t=625

[caytonmiller]

in my previous working life, I was verbally threatened on more than one occasion as a Dick store Manager . I came awfully close once to decking some loud mouth two hat who said he was going to knock me out. One of my colleagues grabbed my arm to restrain me but, there comes a time when enough is enough. Thankfully, I saw the errors of my ways and calmed down while someone else escorted him from the store.

I find it so concerning to see people working in stores, verbally abused/assaulted, and next to nothing being done to the scum that causes them grief.

Storing dicks. I will ask no more

[CAMiller]

why isn't this all over the news?

The scandal of the false positives.

starts at 10minutes 25.

https://youtu.be/tDt8Te20I9I?t=625

I thought you was giving up on beating the statistics drum? Listen to what she says between 10:40 and 10:55. It's complete nonsense.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I thought you was giving up on beating the statistics drum? Listen to what she says between 10:40 and 10:55. It's complete nonsense.

Maybe....but the false positives?

[CAMiller]

Maybe....but the false positives?

Well of course there will be false positives as there nearly always are in medical tests. However she seems to be mixing up false positives with tests that are negative. e.g. 90% of people taking the community tests are negative, i.e. they think they have the virus, get tested, and don't have it. At least that's what I could make out from her ramblings, I might be wrong as I gave up after listening 3 times and trying to decipher.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

, I might be wrong as I gave up after listening 3 times and trying to decipher.

How convenient.

[CAMiller]

How convenient.

OK then Einstein, you listen to that 15s section I referenced and explain to me what she is saying?

[wendun]

According to the latest reports the public is "tiring" of Covid restrictions and coming round to the view that many thousands will die each year just like flu but at least they'll be able to go to Ibiza and the pub.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

OK then Einstein, you listen to that 15s section I referenced and explain to me what she is saying?

Professor Carl Heneghan, clarifies the issue. He was the man who exposed the errors in the figures the other month when people who had recovered from covid then died of other causes were being included in the stats.

https://youtu.be/iUAmhFJBmts

[wendun]

The main lessons to be learned from Covid 19 are:

Grandparents are nice to have (sort of) but not if it means giving up footy, boozing and sh*gging at uni.

We want to be part of this society (and only a few of us actively want to kill you) but not if it means giving up on our weddings, funerals and crazed religious ceremonies.

The next virus should be more virulent and be particularly lethal to 18-50 year olds.

[WanChaiMiller]

why isn't this all over the news?

The scandal of the false positives.

starts at 10minutes 25.

https://youtu.be/tDt8Te20I9I?t=625

The interviewer says 'may be wrong'. She then goes on to assert 'we're basing strategey on fasle data'.

'may; meaning - expressing possibility.

She could just as easily said 'may be right'.

[John2]

why isn't this all over the news?

The scandal of the false positives.

starts at 10minutes 25.

https://youtu.be/tDt8Te20I9I?t=625

A false positive rate of below 1%, means 9 out of 10 positive cases being found will be wrong?

Seems a bit of a sensationalising leap by a journalist rather than a sound medical argument by an expert.

[John2]

Professor Carl Heneghan, clarifies the issue. He was the man who exposed the errors in the figures the other month when people who had recovered from covid then died of other causes were being included in the stats.

https://youtu.be/iUAmhFJBmts

I've just had to have a sit down, you've actually shared a credible scientist making a reasonable point.

It doesn't really back up what the talk radio journalist appears to be saying though.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I've just had to have a sit down, you've actually shared a credible scientist making a reasonable point.

It doesn't really back up what the talk radio journalist appears to be saying though.

I have shared numerous credible scientist and a few duffers.

You have famously missed the point I was making from the outset.

Following "The Science" as governments the world over, are claiming to do is complete nonsenses as "science" is not a unified body of thought. There are credible scientists on all sides of the debate, plus cranks and crackpots.


My point from the outset is that the scientists who are driving our campaign have links to huge pharmaceutical companies. One of these companies currently involved in yet another investigation for fraud. The same company has paid out millions in fines over the years for bad practice.


"The Science " from the beginning has been challenged by experts from the outset. These people have been silenced, marginalised and had their careers threatened.


Parliament has not debated anything. Boris is ruling by decree. The shameful lack of opposition from Labour has been a disgrace, especially when 6 million will soon be unemployed.


I proposed right from the beginning, a short sharp lockdown, while parliament debated this and heard expert opinion from all sides.


I note a letter signed by more experts was sent to the government this week about Corona.


One of which Prof Gupta I referenced months ago on this site.


https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3702

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-open-letter-on-covid-19-strategy-written-by-prof-karol-sikora-prof-carl-heneghan-prof-sunetra-gupta-and-others/

[the_idiotb_stardson]

It doesn't really back up what the talk radio journalist appears to be saying though.

As CAM points out it is not very clear. Yet she clearly raises the issue of false positives, which as Heneghan has repeatedly pointed out for months is definitely problematic. Shapps response says it all really.

[wendun]

As CAM points out it is not very clear. Yet she clearly raises the issue of false positives, which as Heneghan has repeatedly pointed out for months is definitely problematic. Shapps response says it all really.

Give it a rest you plank. Go and mingle in a crowded pub for God's sake.

[millertop]

I wonder how many who don’t follow guidelines are ****ing moaning

[millersrus]

Professor Carl Heneghan, clarifies the issue. He was the man who exposed the errors in the figures the other month when people who had recovered from covid then died of other causes were being included in the stats.

https://youtu.be/iUAmhFJBmts

THE number of coronavirus inpatients has increased more than threefold within the last week at Rotherham Hospital.

George Briggs, chief operating officer for the Rotherham NHS Foundation Trust, said that as of 8am this morning (Wednesday), the hospital had nine Covid-19 inpatients - last week there were just two.

Maybe this prof could check Rotherham hospital figures out today



https://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,covid19-inpatients-on-the-rise-at-rotherham-hospital_36756.htm

[MillerBill]

Prime Minister Whitty must not be allowed to con us any longer. The average age of Corona deaths is 82.Yes 82!!!!!

[wendun]

Prime Minister Whitty must not be allowed to con us any longer. The average age of Corona deaths is 82.Yes 82!!!!!

How's Vlad, Bill? Covid, Novichock, who cares? Good lad. Keep it up.

[MillerBill]

Take the blinkers off Wendy

[wendun]

Take the blinkers off Wendy

You boys have got it all wrong. It isn't the govt dictating it's the people demanding. Students - w*nkers everyone - can't abide by social distancing so what's going to happen? Nothing to do with BoJo and the govt. Just now I spoke with a friend in the UCU; if the Covid outbreaks in Scottish and Welsh universities are replicated in England (and they will be because 18-34 year olds are all rrses) they will pull the plug. Well done, lads and lasses. Sh*gged and pissed it up on Fresher's Week but your course just went online. Haha. Take a bow Bill, IBS and g_f, the three frigging stooges.

[MillerBill]

Wendy,I've got no time for the over privileged students at universities where we have overpaid lecturers milking the system.We have to concentrate on the vulnerable's concerns but not strangle the economy,where the damage would be far greater.

[John2]

I have shared numerous credible scientist and a few duffers.

You have famously missed the point I was making from the outset.

Following "The Science" as governments the world over, are claiming to do is complete nonsenses as "science" is not a unified body of thought. There are credible scientists on all sides of the debate, plus cranks and crackpots.


My point from the outset is that the scientists who are driving our campaign have links to huge pharmaceutical companies. One of these companies currently involved in yet another investigation for fraud. The same company has paid out millions in fines over the years for bad practice.

How very apt. Here you've gone and veered from credible and serious point in one paragraph, to joining the cranks and crackpots in the next desperate for there to be some sort of conspiracy that doesn't exist.

[John2]

Prime Minister Whitty must not be allowed to con us any longer. The average age of Corona deaths is 82.Yes 82!!!!!

Bill, where are you getting your facts from? I'm concerned you're misinformed.

I don't know the average age, but the number of deaths by age group as of yesterday was:

0 - 19: 20
20 - 39: 216
40 - 59: 2,309
60 - 79: 11,333
80+: 15,930
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

To get your average age of 82, the majority of deaths in the 80+ category would have to be in people approaching 100 years old!

[rolymiller]

Ah come on Monty you were a student once upon a time doing lots of naughty things even being part of some lefty demos at some point no doubt. Where did it all go wrong?

[MillerBill]

John, don't be misled by your Guardian,deaths by Corona with no other ailment for under 60's is just over 300.You will not read that in your daily news sheet because they don't want to publicise that.

[CAMiller]

John, don't be misled by your Guardian,deaths by Corona with no other ailment for under 60's is just over 300.You will not read that in your daily news sheet because they don't want to publicise that.

As I mentioned previously Bill, that number may be correct but don't forget a great many of the 14,000 other deaths 'with' covid for under 60s could list obesity (I'm classed as obese at 6'4" and 14st) or asthma but it's unlikely it would have killed them.

[MillerBill]

That's true CAM, there's a lot of distorted figures manufactured from data to suit their own agenda.Look how PublicHealthEngland had to admit to misleading the public.

[John2]

John, don't be misled by your Guardian,deaths by Corona with no other ailment for under 60's is just over 300.You will not read that in your daily news sheet because they don't want to publicise that.

Bill, where is your source for 82 then?

My source was provided, and it was the NHS's website, not the Guardian.

Maybe you're just a bit gullible.

[Brin]

THE number of coronavirus inpatients has increased more than threefold within the last week at Rotherham Hospital.

George Briggs, chief operating officer for the Rotherham NHS Foundation Trust, said that as of 8am this morning (Wednesday), the hospital had nine Covid-19 inpatients - last week there were just two.

Maybe this prof could check Rotherham hospital figures out today



https://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,covid19-inpatients-on-the-rise-at-rotherham-hospital_36756.htm

I wonder what race all these new cases are?

[millertop]

App up and running

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54270334

[great_fire]

Turns out Patrick Valance has £600,000 worth of shares in vaccine company, what a huge surprise.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/

[clarkey1974]

Turns out Patrick Valance has £600,000 worth of shares in vaccine company, what a huge surprise.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/

And probably serco will probably be handed contract to administer it..

[clarkey1974]

All I want to know now,and for some time actually, is non massaged and accurate hospitalisation figures and death numbers with the virus then I can make my personal evaluation.

[wrinkly]

As I mentioned previously Bill, that number may be correct but don't forget a great many of the 14,000 other deaths 'with' covid for under 60s could list obesity (I'm classed as obese at 6'4" and 14st) or asthma but it's unlikely it would have killed them.

Some strange BMI calculator you're using Cam.

I've put your height and weight in a few (including NHS and American Cancer Society) and come up with a BMI of 23.9. This is not even overweight, certainly not obese.

If you're determined to be obese you must try harder with the donuts

[gm_gm]

Bill, where are you getting your facts from? I'm concerned you're misinformed.

I don't know the average age, but the number of deaths by age group as of yesterday was:

0 - 19: 20
20 - 39: 216
40 - 59: 2,309
60 - 79: 11,333
80+: 15,930
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

To get your average age of 82, the majority of deaths in the 80+ category would have to be in people approaching 100 years old!

Dont think these figures are accurate either

[the_idiotb_stardson]

How very apt. Here you've gone and veered from credible and serious point in one paragraph, to joining the cranks and crackpots in the next desperate for there to be some sort of conspiracy that doesn't exist.

Any comment on this breaking story John?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/


Any one else care to comment?

Any one want to loan my tin foil hat?

[millertop]

Don’t forget to get the app

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54270334

[ragingpup]

Don’t forget to get the app

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54270334


Tried dowloading this and tells me I need to be a resident of Isle of Wight and need a code to proceed!

this is the official app too -no idea what's going on

[CAMiller]

Some strange BMI calculator you're using Cam.

I've put your height and weight in a few (including NHS and American Cancer Society) and come up with a BMI of 23.9. This is not even overweight, certainly not obese.

If you're determined to be obese you must try harder with the donuts

You are right Wrinkly, I must be confusing it with at one time I'd slipped into the overweight category. I can afford to add another 3.5st before I'm obese. Mind you I don't think just height and weight factor in, some people are all muscle, I'm all fat due to love of the aforementioned doughnuts XD

[millersrus]

How very apt. Here you've gone and veered from credible and serious point in one paragraph, to joining the cranks and crackpots in the next desperate for there to be some sort of conspiracy that doesn't exist.

Was this your welcome message then john?

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Ahem....Patrick Vallance anyone?

[millertop]

Ahem....Patrick Vallance anyone?

Doing a good job making money for himself

[great_fire]

Tried dowloading this and tells me I need to be a resident of Isle of Wight and need a code to proceed!

this is the official app too -no idea what's going on

It was piloted on the Isle of Wight.

To no-one's great surprise, it's currently experiencing "technical issues".

[millertop]

No problems at all for me this morning

[caytonmiller]

Some strange BMI calculator you're using Cam.

I've put your height and weight in a few (including NHS and American Cancer Society) and come up with a BMI of 23.9. This is not even overweight, certainly not obese.

If you're determined to be obese you must try harder with the donuts

In America his BMI makes him anorexic. Get some dinner you skinny runt

[John2]

Dont think these figures are accurate either

I provided the link. If you lack the capacity to click on it that's your problem!

I'll even link you directly to the spreadsheet:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-24-September-2020.xlsx

You can then click Tab 3 Deaths by Age, and scroll right for the Totals.

You're welcome.

[John2]

Any comment on this breaking story John?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/


Any one else care to comment?

Any one want to loan my tin foil hat?

Not surprised he has shares given his time working there, I can't read article but I assume in GSK?

I don't think we'll end up using the GSK vaccine in the UK, potential conflict but not a big one.

The key thing to consider is, are other countries that aren't advised by Vallance pursuing the same policy of targeting a vaccine? The answer is a resounding yes. How does your tinfoil hat explain that?

[Shark27]

Any comment on this breaking story John?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/


Any one else care to comment?

Any one want to loan my tin foil hat?

£600,000 worth of shares is pretty good for someone who is sh1t at his job!!

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Not surprised he has shares given his time working there, I can't read article but I assume in GSK?

I don't think we'll end up using the GSK vaccine in the UK, potential conflict but not a big one.

The key thing to consider is, are other countries that aren't advised by Vallance pursuing the same policy of targeting a vaccine? The answer is a resounding yes. How does your tinfoil hat explain that?

Ha ha you are an ostrich.

At what point John would you realise your house was being burgled?

Would you still think the people who had gagged and bound you to a chair and where emptying the family silver into a bag were taking it away to be cleaned?

[gm_gm]

I provided the link. If you lack the capacity to click on it that's your problem!

I'll even link you directly to the spreadsheet:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-24-September-2020.xlsx

You can then click Tab 3 Deaths by Age, and scroll right for the Totals.

You're welcome.

Only an idiot would believe those figures John

[ragingpup]

Only an idiot would believe those figures John

The New World Trauma in a nutshell.

Believe and quote the data that suits your own world view, whilst dismissing any data that doesn't as conspiricies followed by "sheeple".

Take a bow GM Trump XD

[John2]

Ha ha you are an ostrich.

At what point John would you realise your house was being burgled?

Would you still think the people who had gagged and bound you to a chair and where emptying the family silver into a bag were taking it away to be cleaned?

This is not an answer, it is just more conspiratorial garbage to avoid answering the actual question... how do you explain all these other countries adopting the same strategy?

I know people who worked on the front line, I know someone who has been in intensive care with the virus, I know someone suffering from long covid. Are they making these experiences up?

[John2]

The New World Trauma in a nutshell.

Believe and quote the data that suits your own world view, whilst dismissing any data that doesn't as conspiricies followed by "sheeple".

Take a bow GM Trump XD

GM was just trying to be funny/on the wind up I think. I don't think he's actually that daft.

[Brin]

With all this Covid, I've been washing my hands so much, I've discovered a stamp from a nightclub from 30 years ago!

[the_idiotb_stardson]

This is not an answer, it is just more conspiratorial garbage to avoid answering the actual question... how do you explain all these other countries adopting the same strategy?

I know people who worked on the front line, I know someone who has been in intensive care with the virus, I know someone suffering from long covid. Are they making these experiences up?

But you didn't answer my question.

There is a virus, never denied that.

It is nasty , never denied that (see my countless other posts outlining this).

The scandal is in the exaggeration of the statistics.

I also know 2 people suffering from covid. i know a lot lot more suffering from anxiety due to lockdown and the fear mongering and others who have missed crucial hospital treatment.


What about the nurses who have been sacked for saying their hospitals were empty?

I happen to know a person who was pressured by to accept covid on a death certificate even though it wasn't the cause of death in order to not have to wait a long time for a burial.

An other, a lifelong asthmatic, went in for treatment and was told later they had been treated for covid even though they had a 14 previous hospital visits with the same asthmatic condition.


Are we saying your anecdotal evidence is more reliable than mine?


Your rational approach, and your detailed analysis is excellent but always stops at who is making money from this? Who is funding the media that promotes these scares?

Surely financial gain and the pursuit of power is a variable that has to be included?

How can we trust what Vallance says when potentially a vaccination produced by GSK would make him a millionaire?


Do you think Faucci is squeaky clean John?

[John2]

The scandal is in the exaggeration of the statistics.

No, it's not. I read the same statistics as you, I know on paper it doesn't seem "that bad", low death rate compared to what it could be, seasonal flu kills more etc.

The thing I understand which you seem to be missing is exponential growth.

The numbers don't look that bad because we've taken steps to prevent this from occuring. The rate that the numbers were growing were astronomical and without intervention would have completely overwhelmed the NHS.


What about the nurses who have been sacked for saying their hospitals were empty?

What about them?


I happen to know a person who was pressured by to accept covid on a death certificate even though it wasn't the cause of death in order to not have to wait a long time for a burial.

I'm sure there is more to this, but even if not, it still doesn't really prove a conspiracy. Who benefits from this?


Are we saying your anecdotal evidence is more reliable than mine?

I'm saying your anecdotal evidence doesn't really demonstrate a big conspiracy, which is the point of contention.


Your rational approach, and your detailed analysis is excellent but always stops at who is making money from this? Who is funding the media that promotes these scares?

The media is funded by people who buy it. Newspapers are incentivised to sensationalise.

I don't really consume much mainstream media, or headlines, but there is overwhelming global consensus in all countries, allies and enemies alike, with a free press, or an authoritarian regime, that this thing is serious.

Valance may well profit from his shares in GSK. But that's a simple conflict of interest, it doesn't really undermine his position which is in line with ALL OTHER COUNTRIES.

What does Iran have to gain financially?


Surely financial gain and the pursuit of power is a variable that has to be included?

If you're looking for a conspiracy, this is an excellent motivation. However the number of people who would profit from this is so tiny, and the number of people who lose out is so huge, that your theory makes no sense. It's as daft as people who believe the earth is flat and NASA is funded to trick everyone. Nobody seems to be able to justify the immense cost of this pointless exercise.

It is unlikely the drug companies will make much money from the vaccine, a number of them have pledged to not make a profit at all.

If you think there is a big conspiracy, you've got to give more detail, what are you suggesting has been done, and who exactly do you think is benefitting? And why hasn't everyone else managed to recognise what is happening and stop it? Why do only the tinfoil hat wearers who believe everything they read on social media and youtube believe it, but medical experts remain unconvinced?

There are reasonable disagreements about the extent of what controls should be implemented, but that's not what seems to be your big concern. Do you think the government wants to close pubs at 10pm? Do you think they want to keep subsidising billions in wages? Do you think these decisions are taken lightly?

You're trying to be open minded, but you're being so open minded your brain has fallen out and you're seeing things which aren't there.


Do you think Faucci is squeaky clean John?

It's of no relevance to me, he is not a source of information I pay much attention to, but he seems fairly credible.

[KerrAvon]

I'm a GSK and an AstraZeneca shareholder, IBS.

There really isn't a deal of money to be made in vaccines. The developement costs are high and, if they work, they are only administered a few times through a person's life.

The real money is in chronic illness. The likes of asthma and diabetes are big money spinners.

I think that you are getting sidetracked by the money argument (on Twitter, they seem to be favoured by people with #JC4PM in their profiles - lol). There are valid questions to be asked. As you point out, the nature of science is that there will be a spectrum of views on any given issue and Covid is no exception. In addition, the science changes as more becomes known about a subject. I think it beyond doubt that the fatality rate for Covid is nowhere near that which was feared at the outset, for example.

The problem with 'following the science' is that there should be an economic and social issue input into our response (in addition to the ever present political one). Lockdowns have serious adverse consequences and there ought to be an open debate about where the balance should lie.

[gm_gm]

I'm a GSK and an AstraZeneca shareholder, IBS.

There really isn't a deal of money to be made in vaccines. The developement costs are high and, if they work, they are only administered a few times through a person's life.

The real money is in chronic illness. The likes of asthma and diabetes are big money spinners.

I think that you are getting sidetracked by the money argument (on Twitter, they seem to be favoured by people with #JC4PM in their profiles - lol). There are valid questions to be asked. As you point out, the nature of science is that there will be a spectrum of views on any given issue and Covid is no exception. In addition, the science changes as more becomes known about a subject. I think it beyond doubt that the fatality rate for Covid is nowhere near that which was feared at the outset, for example.

The problem with 'following the science' is that there should be an economic and social issue input into our response (in addition to the ever present political one). Lockdowns have serious adverse consequences and there ought to be an open debate about where the balance should lie.

I hold GSK, Astra, and five other Pharma research shares, GSK is still 18% down this year and unless Vallance cashed in on May the 14th he wont have made a fortune yet. however, I dont agree Kerr that if a vaccine is found the share price wont climb, I think it surge past its high of 1843 to 2,000+

[Shark27]

Regarding the scientists. Back in March we were being told that face masks don't really have much effect.

Now we are being told to wear one when you stand up in a pub.

This strikes me as though some people either don't have a clue what they are doing or they were not telling us (In the hope of herd immunity) otherwise we would have been advised to wear a covering from the beginning.

Surely if some of these people are paid hundreds of thousands they should at least have had the knowledge/research available for the basics I.e. benefits of face coverings.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

So the lockdown rally is closed down for not obeying rules.

BLM and ER allowed to take place (vandalism included)

Why was today's protest any different?

Please explain.

[sota]

Florida Governor just lifted all covid restrictions. Interesting to see what happens now seeing as it’s the start of tourist season.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I'm a GSK and an AstraZeneca shareholder, IBS.

There really isn't a deal of money to be made in vaccines. The developement costs are high and, if they work, they are only administered a few times through a person's life.

The real money is in chronic illness. The likes of asthma and diabetes are big money spinners.

I think that you are getting sidetracked by the money argument (on Twitter, they seem to be favoured by people with #JC4PM in their profiles - lol). There are valid questions to be asked. As you point out, the nature of science is that there will be a spectrum of views on any given issue and Covid is no exception. In addition, the science changes as more becomes known about a subject. I think it beyond doubt that the fatality rate for Covid is nowhere near that which was feared at the outset, for example.

The problem with 'following the science' is that there should be an economic and social issue input into our response (in addition to the ever present political one). Lockdowns have serious adverse consequences and there ought to be an open debate about where the balance should lie.


An excellent post Kerr, if you don't mind me saying so.

I would welcome a debate on the whole issue. Too many views by experts, qualified intelligent experts, have been ignored.

[Slimchance]

IBS I have not been following all this thread but you say nurses have been sacked for saying hospitals are empty. I would think trying to dismiss someone in the NHS would be a hard at this time. Do you have any first hand reports or is it a friend of a friends friend ?

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Been in the news

[great_fire]

So the lockdown rally is closed down for not obeying rules.

BLM and ER allowed to take place (vandalism included)

Why was today's protest any different?

Please explain.

Khan and Common Purpose Dick are in charge of the Met.

[great_fire]

Been in the news

Kate Shemirani.

She's been suspended anyway.

[wrinkly]

Kate Shemirani.

She's been suspended anyway.

So - one out and out nutcase who refers to her employer as "the new Auschwitz" and blames 5G for the virus is
"the nurses who have been sacked for saying hospitals are empty" according to ibs?
ffs - beyond ridiculous

[great_fire]

So - one out and out nutcase who refers to her employer as "the new Auschwitz" and blames 5G for the virus is
"the nurses who have been sacked for saying hospitals are empty" according to ibs?
ffs - beyond ridiculous

No that was according to me, he may have someone else in mind.

Doctors and nurses have been threatened when they've mentioned the lack of Covid cases in their hospitals.

[wrinkly]

No that was according to me, he may have someone else in mind.

Doctors and nurses have been threatened when they've mentioned the lack of Covid cases in their hospitals.

Yes - I know it was according to you. You were quoting his post saying that this had been in the news. I assumed you were supporting his view and providing the "facts" to back him up.

[CAMiller]

Washington State where I am is one of the states that is considered to have the virus 'under control' as 34 out of 50 US states are seeing cases/deaths on the rise. Even then, models are showing that Washington State will be short of intensive care beds by December. May be scaremongering, time will tell.

[wendun]

Washington State where I am is one of the states that is considered to have the virus 'under control' as 34 out of 50 US states are seeing cases/deaths on the rise. Even then, models are showing that Washington State will be short of intensive care beds by December. May be scaremongering, time will tell.

I've said and I'm sick of saying that the great problem with this virus is that it mainly kills the "dispensable" elderly but is spread by the irresponsible young. Every lecturer I know said reopening the universities would be a disaster but (but, but) they were overruled by accommodation officers who needed to fill student accommodation to balance the books.

[millertop]

Covid-19: Up to £10,000 fine for failure to self-isolate in England

Personally I think if you go out knowing you have COVID-19 (like the one you did not so long ago and decided if was a good idea to go to pub) should spend a few nights in prison, the selfish git

[millersrus]

What did Panorama “expose” yesterday about track and trace.

Damned if you do damned if you don’t !

[millersrus]

From today’s star
‘Warning lights flashing' as Rotherham sees first coronavirus deaths in a month
Four in critical care and two dead – Rotherham residents have been warned to follow government rules after the hospital starts to see corornavirus patients again.

[millertop]

Neil Warnock: Middlesbrough boss warns of Covid-19 danger after recovering from coronavirus

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54374687

You are spot on Warnock

[millertop]

Poland and Turkey added to quarantine list

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54376357

[CAMiller]

Trump off to hospital now.

[ragingpup]

Might be speculation but:

Mass vaccine program potentially just months away for UK
A mass roll-out of a Covid-19 vaccine in Britain could be finished in as little as three months, the Times reports, citing government scientists.

Scientists working on the Oxford vaccine hope regulators approve it before the beginning of 2021, the newspaper says.

A full Covid-19 immunisation programme that would exclude children could be quicker than experts predicted, the Times says, adding that health officials estimate that every adult could receive a dose of the vaccine within six months.

The European Medicines Agency said on Thursday it had started reviewing data on AstraZeneca and Oxford University’s potential Covid-19 vaccine, in real time, the first of such moves aimed at speeding up any approval process in the region for a vaccine.

The news of the European review also raises chances of the British vaccine, which is seen as leading the race for a successful vaccine against Covid-19, becoming the first to be approved in Europe for the disease caused by the novel coronavirus that has killed more than a million people globally.

The Times report adds that plans under consideration by government include allowing a much wider group of healthcare staff to administer the vaccine, setting up drive-through vaccination centres and recruiting armed forces’ help.

[howdydoo]

It was months away in March.

I think we can see the signs and the signs are, the winter will bring more cases and more death.

I’m not a fan of these regional lockdowns. We need to be protecting the elderly and people with underlying health issues. It needs to be more targeted for the most vulnerable.

Food deliveries, compulsory isolation, restrict movements etc.

Very little news flow about the origins of this virus and you do have to question, what do they know that they haven’t told us. That means world leaders, not just the Chinese.

[CAMiller]

So, exhibiting his fine leadership qualities and after receiving the best care known to man, Trump has declared that COVID is nothing to fear. The families of the 200,000+ who have died in the USA might have a different opinion.

[great_fire]

So, exhibiting his fine leadership qualities and after receiving the best care known to man, Trump has declared that COVID is nothing to fear. The families of the 200,000+ who have died in the USA might have a different opinion.

TBF he says he'll give the same drugs he had to everyone.

[CAMiller]

TBF he says he'll give the same drugs he had to everyone.

Did he say for free? You do realise that within the US Health'care' system a course of drugs similar to what he was given would cost the 'average Joe' around $5,000 if not significantly more.

[millertop]

South Yorkshire have been put in tier two, no household mixing again

[gm_gm]

Liverpool lockdown, possibly Manchester soon...thousands of people have attended celebrations and raves in both town, the councils and police couldn’t control their public, now they seem surprised about the high Covid rates.

[great_fire]

More to do with students returning.

[gm_gm]

More to do with students returning.

dont students attend demos and raves anymore?...shocker

[Stovicmiller]

Seen the thick young people of Liverpool having a jolly after ten o'clock in the streets, hundreds of em. Thick has ****.

[great_fire]

Government looking at putting 6 more areas into Tier 3, including South Yorkshire.

The other areas being Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, the North East and Teesside.

[millertop]

Abide by the rules you selfish ****ers :mad:

[great_fire]

Tier 3 on Saturday.

Meanwhile, in China, everyone is partying.

[CAMiller]

I see you are heading into Tier 3 from the weekend. Stay safe everyone. It's not just Northern UK that's struggling with this. We are at over 100/100,000 here where I am.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I dont know why but Scotland adding a couple of extra tiers to make 5 in total , reminds me of this.

https://youtu.be/uMSV4OteqBE

[great_fire]

Late for his own press conference.

[ragingpup]

From the news released so far, are you able to meet your parents outdoors, either in a park or in their garden under the new lockdown? Can't find specific info, but it'll be amongst the most important restriction for many.

[great_fire]

God knows but I think people will do it anyway.

[CAMiller]

Just seen a report out of Spain that dog walkers have a 78% greater chance of catching COVID and they are bemused as to why. Haven't they heard of dogging XD

[millertop]

Vaccine roll out from next week, will you be taking the jab?

[Shark27]

Scientists are saying lockdown needs to be stricter. This lockdown, unlike the last, I have been told that my office is open and it is business as usual. I feel like I have been pressured into going in the office. I am told I work better from the office even though I get all my work done if I work from home. My wife works in a school (key worker) so we have had to put our kids in school.

I have put my children's health at risk and I am quite p1ssed off about it.

But lots more businesses are thinking the same. Roads are still busy as I see it when I am driving to work.

It has made me think about where my future lies work wise.

[CAMiller]

Scientists are saying lockdown needs to be stricter. This lockdown, unlike the last, I have been told that my office is open and it is business as usual. I feel like I have been pressured into going in the office. I am told I work better from the office even though I get all my work done if I work from home. My wife works in a school (key worker) so we have had to put our kids in school.

I have put my children's health at risk and I am quite p1ssed off about it.

But lots more businesses are thinking the same. Roads are still busy as I see it when I am driving to work.

It has made me think about where my future lies work wise.

In a survey here, 25% of workers said they would do this when their employer asks them go back to the office. QUIT.

[millertop]

India highest deaths by looks