Get A Grip Boris

[baggieal]

Schools won’t close but u turn after u turn and many schools are doing their own thing and closing anyway!

Boris says schools are safe! Schools might be safe in situ but if children are spreading the virus so how is this safe when children leave school?

Mass testings in schools? Why not mass vaccinations instead!!!

Boris says there MIGHT be tighter restrictions to come. There are 75,000 deaths as everything Boris does or says is too slow!

Don’t know why we don’t just have a full lockdown and do this properly as quite clearly the tier system is not working but hey Boris knows best!

Making our own decisions leaving the EU seemed excellent in principle but Boris against 27 others! Not so sure now we won’t end up in a mess! Already our business suffering as road export to the EU is a complete mess!

[WBA1955]

Vaccinations don't stop people getting Covid, they could stop them getting severe symptoms of the virus but that's all. Even if you are vaccinated it doesn't stop you getting the virus or passing it on.
Since children hardly get any severe symptoms the vaccines should be used on the elderly or people with underlying illnesses...if they agree to it.
Six Man City player's have now got Covid, Albion have had several, I don't know the number of premier league or EFL player's who have it.
How many do you think will die or never play again?

[Baggiemadguern]

Schools won’t close but u turn after u turn and many schools are doing their own thing and closing anyway!

Boris says schools are safe! Schools might be safe in situ but if children are spreading the virus so how is this safe when children leave school?

Mass testings in schools? Why not mass vaccinations instead!!!

Boris says there MIGHT be tighter restrictions to come. There are 75,000 deaths as everything Boris does or says is too slow!

Don’t know why we don’t just have a full lockdown and do this properly as quite clearly the tier system is not working but hey Boris knows best!

Making our own decisions leaving the EU seemed excellent in principle but Boris against 27 others! Not so sure now we won’t end up in a mess! Already our business suffering as road export to the EU is a complete mess!

Hallelujah. I have been saying this since last June. If the first lockdown had been done properly with a properly thought out exit then it would have saved many, many lives. Now the UK is in a worse mess than it was in April last year.

Two week circuit breakers don’t work, that is a fact.
Herd immunity does not work, that is a fact.
The vaccine may work, we shall wait and see.

So there is only one solution to save lives as hard as it might be.

[Yarmbaggie]

Can anyone explain to me why a National lockdown will work whereas Tier 4 at around 72% and Tier 3 the rest of the country bar the Scilly Isles doesn’t (apparently)?

The virus is passed by people contact. We, the majority, in Tier 4 are really under a National lockdown anyway. We can’t go anywhere we are asked to stay at home and the only shops open are essential food etc. We can only meet one person outside and we need to restrict our movements outside.

Those in Tier 3, the minority, are not in a much better place but can meet in groups of 6 outside and non essentials can open. However they cannot travel to a Tier 4 area and people in Tier 4 cannot travel to Tier 3 to spread the virus there.

I know I am thick but what am I missing? There is a regular review so people in Tier 3 will go to Tier 4 if the situation worsens there.

[baggieal]

Can anyone explain to me why a National lockdown will work whereas Tier 4 at around 72% and Tier 3 the rest of the country bar the Scilly Isles doesn’t (apparently)?

The virus is passed by people contact. We, the majority, in Tier 4 are really under a National lockdown anyway. We can’t go anywhere we are asked to stay at home and the only shops open are essential food etc. We can only meet one person outside and we need to restrict our movements outside.

Those in Tier 3, the minority, are not in a much better place but can meet in groups of 6 outside and non essentials can open. However they cannot travel to a Tier 4 area and people in Tier 4 cannot travel to Tier 3 to spread the virus there.

I know I am thick but what am I missing? There is a regular review so people in Tier 3 will go to Tier 4 if the situation worsens there.



You are missing the following:

Recently my area was tier 2 so surrounding Cities/Towns rammed the area to go to the pubs/restaurants but of course nobody checks and many don't listen to the rules!

Now the area is tier 3 surrounding Cities/Towns visit to go into all the shops that stay open albeit restaurants/pubs are closed. The shops are rammed!

Schools will re-open and kids will travel from different tiers ie tier 3 to tier 4 and can pass on the virus quite easily. Many schools in the area had reported cases of children having contracted the virus.

Stupid people you may say but it appears there are thousands of stupid people including professional footballers on 200K a week still hosting parties and being selfish.

The only way to contain this virus is to have a proper lockdown with everything shut including schools and get a move on with the vaccine rather than dilly dallying. Perhaps GP'S can open up surgeries 7 days a week to help vaccinate. Teachers are expected by Boris to still go to school so they perhaps are more at risk than our good old GP'S!

PS - I don't see many of our European friends doing u turn after u turn and f ucking about like Boris who I voted for but wish I hadn't as he's proven to be a prize clown!

[Yarmbaggie]

So in other words people are not following the rules and therefore making things worse.

Ok we have a National lockdown, what makes you think people will follow the rules then?

[WBA123]

Interesting to read people's view on Boris.

I'm really hoping the vaccinations will get us back to normal, but I do fear that we have an incompetent Government who will be in charge of the vaccination process. The scientists have done their job and now its down to the politicians. Anyone else think the same?

By the way, as always, I genuinely hope I'm wrong and that the Government and Boris pull this out the bag. If everyone gets vaccinated in the next few months I will hold my hands up and say what a great job they've done on the roll out. If some are still waiting for the vaccine in 2022 then this disease won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

[WBA123]

So in other words people are not following the rules and therefore making things worse.

Ok we have a National lockdown, what makes you think people will follow the rules then?

People will always break rules, in every country in the world this is happening not just ours.

My problem has been with the Governments poor communication. Government ministers and Boris himself haven't known some of the rules when asked. The Govt's chief advisor broke the rules and wasn't reprimanded.

The clear message for people to follow comes from the top.

[baggieal]

So in other words people are not following the rules and therefore making things worse.

Ok we have a National lockdown, what makes you think people will follow the rules then?



The clue is in the shops ie they won’t be rammed with customers from other tiers! With a complete lockdown there is barely anything open for morons to disobey the rules!

[mickd1961]

If this was the second or third pandemic we’d suffered I’d be apoplectic about the government’s handling of various aspects of this present situation.

Because it’s the first in living memory I’ve been willing to cut them some slack.

What has annoyed me more than anything has been the blatant lies and waffle from Matt C o c k hand!

Never again should ANY government find themselves short of PPE, all governments are guilty of penny pinching and believing it’ll never happen to them!

It’s obvious that Covid or its relatives are going to be around for a very long time so a massive ramping up of specialist respiratory units across the whole of the country should be a priority.

Annual vacation needs to be in place and everyone in education should be expected to have it each year in the way we used to have to have our various ones like TB in the 70’s.

I always believed that the virus would run rampant this winter but I’ll admit I’d changed my mind for a “herd mentality” approach but I’ve changed back again and believe we should lockdown until the mid to end of April.

I’m suffering from an as yet undiagnosed upper chest problem which is a massive worry ( not Covid ) and I think I would be in massive personal trouble if I did catch it.

So my position overall is that we’ve fumbled along since March trying to “mix and match” and to try and keep the economy from collapsing.

From this point forward we should do the following in my opinion despite the obvious kick back we’ll get from the Civil Liberties brigade.

1/ Vaccination should be mandatory for everyone apart from for those with a clear medical reason for not doing so.

2/ Possibly a health card for everyone from the age of 11 upwards.

3/ Any business to have the right to refuse employment or any customer access to their building without an up to date health card.

4/ An independent audit ( every year ) to ensure PPE and equipment is in robust enough supply to deal with another pandemic.

5/ A proper “ Track & Trace “ system to be built ready for any future eventuality.

6/ Health provision to be built up massively in respiratory services with ALL nursing staff fully trained in n this area.

7/ A new “Territorial Army” style operation set up where any person can join up and train to take over more basic nursing provision should the NHS ever become terribly stretched.

Anyone linked to this new service can then be summoned to help at times of adversity.

8/ A “reservists” system set up whereby ex doctors and nurses who retire are paid a monthly fee to agree to stay “active” in times of emergency and to top up their training as required by law.

Nothing is more important than your health as I’m fast beginning to learn so this initial pandemic has been a massive learning curve for ALL.

There are now NO excuses for not getting this right from now on.

[Prando]

My take is that we are poor at following the rules. In fact I would go further and say that it is age related. Those under 55 (my arbitrary cut off) do not like being told what to do in any event.
Maybe it is related to the fact that those who have a direct connection with the 2nd WW, i.e. those whose parents lived though it and told the tale, understand better and accept the concept that our ‘rights’ do need to be reluctantly curtailed in certain circumstances.
I’ve reluctantly asked, politely, a few non adherents why ? Responses generally been a non aggressive ‘yeah, yeah smile’ ...inferring MY stupidity.
For me, the essential criteria is that each one of us must assume that we are Covid carriers and therefore adopt whatever necessary to protect others. Unfortunately non adherence needs strong policing. Not popular I’m sure !

[soulman101]

My take is that we are poor at following the rules. In fact I would go further and say that it is age related. Those under 55 (my arbitrary cut off) do not like being told what to do in any event.
Maybe it is related to the fact that those who have a direct connection with the 2nd WW, i.e. those whose parents lived though it and told the tale, understand better and accept the concept that our ‘rights’ do need to be reluctantly curtailed in certain circumstances.
I’ve reluctantly asked, politely, a few non adherents why ? Responses generally been a non aggressive ‘yeah, yeah smile’ ...inferring MY stupidity.
For me, the essential criteria is that each one of us must assume that we are Covid carriers and therefore adopt whatever necessary to protect others. Unfortunately non adherence needs strong policing. Not popular I’m sure !
I'm with you, each generation seems to be getting worse.

[baggieal]

My take is that we are poor at following the rules. In fact I would go further and say that it is age related. Those under 55 (my arbitrary cut off) do not like being told what to do in any event.
Maybe it is related to the fact that those who have a direct connection with the 2nd WW, i.e. those whose parents lived though it and told the tale, understand better and accept the concept that our ‘rights’ do need to be reluctantly curtailed in certain circumstances.
I’ve reluctantly asked, politely, a few non adherents why ? Responses generally been a non aggressive ‘yeah, yeah smile’ ...inferring MY stupidity.
For me, the essential criteria is that each one of us must assume that we are Covid carriers and therefore adopt whatever necessary to protect others. Unfortunately non adherence needs strong policing. Not popular I’m sure !


You are right Prando! Only seems like this in the UK as we are far too soft!!!

In the US - youngsters in fast food places clear up after themselves - they say your welcome after saying thank you - they say please and thank you - they open doors - they don't generally go out and getting pissed out of their heads.

It's called respect! May in this country think they are owed a living and are the scum of the earth! Can you imagine in many other countries showing disrespect to a member of the police force? Many are addressed as Sir! Respect again!

In this country people do as they want and immigrants that come in on dinghies get better meals than our old folk!

[WBA1955]

The media have given people false hope that once they get the jab problem solved.
The Times the other day had the headline get vaccinated and holiday at Easter.
The vaccine manufacturers have said that it might give 70% protection against people developing a severe strain, but that after the jab they would still have to wear a mask and social distance, so no change.
People are so fed up they are desperate for a wonder drug, they would take anything that promised immunity.

[DaveP67 is back!]

The media have given people false hope that once they get the jab problem solved.
The Times the other day had the headline get vaccinated and holiday at Easter.
The vaccine manufacturers have said that it might give 70% protection against people developing a severe strain, but that after the jab they would still have to wear a mask and social distance, so no change.
People are so fed up they are desperate for a wonder drug, they would take anything that promised immunity.

Des where do you get the 70% from? All the currently approved vaccines provide an astonishing 90%-95% protection rate after 2 doses. As for people having to wear a mask afterwards, yes until the vaccine provides you with effective immunity you are still vulnerable and at this point it is not 100% clear whether the vaccine stops you from passing on the virus, however the vaccine will certainly reduce any viral load (that’s the amount of virus your body excretes) and it is more likely than unlikely that the vaccine will prevent you from becoming a spreader once you have an effective immune response, however this is not something that can be confirmed until a largeR proportion of the population have been vaccinated.
Please let’s stick to facts when talking about Covid, far to much bobhollux out there already..

[regis80]

Des where do you get the 70% from? All the currently approved vaccines provide an astonishing 90%-95% protection rate after 2 doses. As for people having to wear a mask afterwards, yes until the vaccine provides you with effective immunity you are still vulnerable and at this point it is not 100% clear whether the vaccine stops you from passing on the virus, however the vaccine will certainly reduce any viral load (that’s the amount of virus your body excretes) and it is more likely than unlikely that the vaccine will prevent you from becoming a spreader once you have an effective immune response, however this is not something that can be confirmed until a largeR proportion of the population have been vaccinated.
Please let’s stick to facts when talking about Covid, far to much bobhollux out there already..

I’m so glad you responded with the facts P67, hearing about it being 70% effective (especially on wba mad) only muddles away from the actual statements made by these pharmaceutical companies. Do i believe 55 or these pharma companies? Sorry 55 but the pharma companies here wins.
55 - not sure where you are getting your facts from but you are starting to seem more and more unpredictable stating false facts?

The head of astra zeneca said for his children’s wish (or something) he wanted something like a billions vaccines to go to the poor nations children or his kids would never forgive them. I’m glad people are being out before profit - so not a money making scheme as some might suggest.

[baggieal]

I’m so glad you responded with the facts P67, hearing about it being 70% effective (especially on wba mad) only muddles away from the actual statements made by these pharmaceutical companies. Do i believe 55 or these pharma companies? Sorry 55 but the pharma companies here wins.
55 - not sure where you are getting your facts from but you are starting to seem more and more unpredictable stating false facts?

The head of astra zeneca said for his children’s wish (or something) he wanted something like a billions vaccines to go to the poor nations children or his kids would never forgive them. I’m glad people are being out before profit - so not a money making scheme as some might suggest.



People can talk themselves out of the facts Regis but hey - my f uckin arm is ready and waiting ;D

[Yarmbaggie]

When the interim trial results were made public in a press release about a fortnight ago, the researchers reported three efficacy levels for the vaccine - an overall effectiveness of 70%, a lower one of 62% and a high of 90%.
That's because different doses of the vaccine were used in one part of the trial. Some volunteers were given shots that were half the strength than originally planned.
Yet that "wrong" dose turned out to be a winner - giving 90% protection - while two standard doses gave 62%.
Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid vaccine 'dosing error' explained
The Lancet report reveals 1,367 people - out of many thousands in the trial - received the half dose followed by a full dose, which gave them 90% protection against getting ill with Covid-19.
The relatively small numbers in this group mean it is hard to draw firm conclusions.

The above quote has been copied from the BBC news site for background to these figures quoted. All in all though the numbers are very encouraging but as the article says difficult to draw firm conclusions due to the low numbers.

[boingy]

I think it’s easy to criticise. Anyone in Government now would face the same problems. The science changes the Government responds. Those who don’t like the government or just want to “have a go” call this U turns. It’s so predictable. I support the Government, Wear a mask, keep a distance, follow direction. The ones who should be criticised are those who ignore all the advice. It wouldn’t matter what party was in right now. You support.

[mickd1961]

You are right Prando! Only seems like this in the UK as we are far too soft!!!

In the US - youngsters in fast food places clear up after themselves - they say your welcome after saying thank you - they say please and thank you - they open doors - they don't generally go out and getting pissed out of their heads.

It's called respect! May in this country think they are owed a living and are the scum of the earth! Can you imagine in many other countries showing disrespect to a member of the police force? Many are addressed as Sir! Respect again!

In this country people do as they want and immigrants that come in on dinghies get better meals than our old folk!

I found the kids and youth element in Australia to be the same as you mention for the Yanks mate.

Polite, helpful, engaging and grown up beyond their years.

How have we ended up with such a bunch of t w a t s for youngsters?

Have we reaped what we’ve sewn with our welfare state and with our overly “PC” and now “Woke” culture?

In general I find out youth to be far too overly opinionated for their life experience, I think soft parenting and the failure to confront you’re own children for their shortcomings is a big part of the problem.

BaggieAl knows of the huge problems I’ve had with my own son, I have never kept this hidden from family and friends and I’ve had to be honest with myself, my son and everyone who knows us.

Too much “*****footing” in general in this country, all its done is breed a nation of 13 - 40 year olds who despise their own country, their own parents as well as making them supercilious and self superior.

For as long as I’m around my own grandchildren will be dealt with by me in the same way my parents and grandparents dealt with me ( minus the smacking) and they’ll either like it or lump it.

My one daughter is a single mother and I’m incredibly proud of how she brings up three year old Leo.

Everyone remarks at how well mannered and polite he is, that’s because she or me pull him up every single time a please or thank you is required.

I said “ thank you” to him for something the other day and he surprised me by replying.....”you’re welcome” 😎😆😆

It just takes a bit of effort to maintain standards but in this country parenting is too lazy in my opinion.

I would so love to live in Australia for 3-6 months a year.

[WBA1955]

Des where do you get the 70% from? All the currently approved vaccines provide an astonishing 90%-95% protection rate after 2 doses. As for people having to wear a mask afterwards, yes until the vaccine provides you with effective immunity you are still vulnerable and at this point it is not 100% clear whether the vaccine stops you from passing on the virus, however the vaccine will certainly reduce any viral load (that’s the amount of virus your body excretes) and it is more likely than unlikely that the vaccine will prevent you from becoming a spreader once you have an effective immune response, however this is not something that can be confirmed until a largeR proportion of the population have been vaccinated.
Please let’s stick to facts when talking about Covid, far to much bobhollux out there already..

When they were interviewing one of the developers of the Oxford vaccine on TV the other day, she said that they were hoping for it to be 70% effective against people developing severe symptoms, but said that it had only been tested on a select few. At no point did she say that you would be immune or could go on holiday once you had it.
You can still get Covid after the jab and pass it on, they are just hoping it will stop people from developing severe symptoms.
She also admitted that they don't know how long the immunity would last as the virus mutates so quickly.
I had heard before that it would be 90-95% effective but she quoted a hopeful 70%.
Don't blame me, i am just saying what i heard from one of the people who developed it, not what you read in The Sun.

[TipperaryBaggie]

If people are worried about the effectiveness of the vaccine, then get to the back of the feckin queue and let someone else take their place. As Al as said, bring it on.

[baggieal]

If people are worried about the effectiveness of the vaccine, then get to the back of the feckin queue and let someone else take their place. As Al as said, bring it on.



Can you imagine if they say - without the vaccine - no overseas travel - no entry to pubs or restaurants. Those in doubt would soon change their mind and it could happen! Why would I want to sit next to someone on a long haul flight if they have not been vaccinated! Would anyone?

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

You are right Prando! Only seems like this in the UK as we are far too soft!!!

In the US - youngsters in fast food places clear up after themselves - they say your welcome after saying thank you - they say please and thank you - they open doors - they don't generally go out and getting pissed out of their heads.

It's called respect! May in this country think they are owed a living and are the scum of the earth! Can you imagine in many other countries showing disrespect to a member of the police force? Many are addressed as Sir! Respect again!

In this country people do as they want and immigrants that come in on dinghies get better meals than our old folk!

Tosh!

My lad's girlfriend is American. She has worked as a waitress in Italy, France and England. Her experience including her homeland is the English are by far away the most polite.

The French respect the police. Sacre Bleu! Ask a gendarme who was injured after the rave in Brittany. Italians and Spaniards also have little respect for their law officers.

Why are we all so ready to run down England and criticise the youth?

AS for 'youngsters' and their behaviour it is easy for us to judge. As an OAP it is not too much of an ask for me to settle in front of the tele with a cup of cocoa every night. But what if I was student and hadn't been out much and I heard there was a party in the bar downstairs or a 20 year old and knew a party with booze, music and girls. Whichever tier I'm in?

So my question to any 'oldie' who cares to answer. Could you put your hand on your heart and state with total certainty 'I would give these pleasures up and adhere to the restrictions?'

I'm not sure I could.

[baggieal]

Tosh!

My lad's girlfriend is American. She has worked as a waitress in Italy, France and England. Her experience including her homeland is the English are by far away the most polite.

The French respect the police. Sacre Bleu! Ask a gendarme who was injured after the rave in Brittany. Italians and Spaniards also have little respect for their law officers.

Why are we all so ready to run down England and criticise the youth?

AS for 'youngsters' and their behaviour it is easy for us to judge. As an OAP it is not too much of an ask for me to settle in front of the tele with a cup of cocoa every night. But what if I was student and hadn't been out much and I heard there was a party in the bar downstairs or a 20 year old and knew a party with booze, music and girls. Whichever tier I'm in?

So my question to any 'oldie' who cares to answer. Could you put your hand on your heart and state with total certainty 'I would give these pleasures up and adhere to the restrictions?'

I'm not sure I could.


Americans always say the British are lovely and must of the time it’s with the monarchy and history in mind. I spend a huge amount of time in the US and there’s far more respect from the youngsters and god help you - if you were rude to a police officer.

Only on Sunday I was walking through our park and young ****s were on bikes doing wheelies - I said don’t do this as riding bikes is not allowed and lots of old folk walking past. I was told to f uck off!

Kids should be accountable in this day and age. If I returned from school and had the cane or ruler - my father gave me another one!

Don’t frequent many fast food places in this country but do people clean up after themselves and throw everything in the bin or remove plates and cutlery from tables? Do they hell! Well they do in most places in the US!

Sadly we suffer from the alcohol culture and bone idleness!! I would not bring in Romanian fruit pickers - I would get some of our lazy youngsters on benefits to do the job or take away benefits. As my late father used to say - there’s no such thing as a free lunch!

[SwedishBaggie]

Tosh!

My lad's girlfriend is American. She has worked as a waitress in Italy, France and England. Her experience including her homeland is the English are by far away the most polite.

The French respect the police. Sacre Bleu! Ask a gendarme who was injured after the rave in Brittany. Italians and Spaniards also have little respect for their law officers.

Why are we all so ready to run down England and criticise the youth?

AS for 'youngsters' and their behaviour it is easy for us to judge. As an OAP it is not too much of an ask for me to settle in front of the tele with a cup of cocoa every night. But what if I was student and hadn't been out much and I heard there was a party in the bar downstairs or a 20 year old and knew a party with booze, music and girls. Whichever tier I'm in?

So my question to any 'oldie' who cares to answer. Could you put your hand on your heart and state with total certainty 'I would give these pleasures up and adhere to the restrictions?'

I'm not sure I could.

Good post 923, I have visited England more times than I know, and normally spend 6-7 weeks there every year, and I find the English very polite and friendly.

I esp appreciate your thoughts about youngsters. How did some who were young in the 80s during another pandemic (HIV/AIDS, back then a certain death verdict for everyone, and some 37 million deaths, in total, so far) behave, regarding eg safe s ex (btw, I’m not a good example)?

[mickd1961]

Good post 923, I have visited England more times than I know, and normally spend 6-7 weeks there every year, and I find the English very polite and friendly.

I esp appreciate your thoughts about youngsters. How did some who were young in the 80s during another pandemic (HIV/AIDS, back then a certain death verdict for everyone, and some 37 million deaths, in total, so far) behave, regarding eg safe s ex (btw, I’m not a good example)?

I’ll be honest Thomas, I only used a Durex once in my life and embarrassed myself by attempting to put it in inside out 😫

Thankfully he was understanding and did it for me.

My s e x u a l escapades lasted between 1978 and 1986 when I met my wife which was around the time AIDS became widely known and understood.

I never worried about catching VD and I had good enough self control to know when to “pull the pin” and not get anyone pregnant albeit I lost count of the number of times I left some unfortunate with a face looking like a plaster’s radio.

I don’t think a 70’s and 80’s lockdown would’ve been that noticeable seeing as pubs stopped serving at 10.30pm and TV programmes ended before midnight.

I think the level of respect we had for our elders meant that even in my early 20’s, if I’d have tried to flout the rules my mum and dad would’ve gone ballistic.

I was so close to my grans that there’s no way I would’ve risked their health by being selfish.

The only caveat for me would’ve been how to handle a longer term relationship, of which I had a few during that period, I could’ve lived without clubbing etc but going without a s h a g!!?

That’s a tough one.

[kettering_baggie]

Really, Mick?!

‘........he was understanding and did it for me!’

HE? I would never have thought that of you.......!!!!

[mickd1961]

Really, Mick?!

‘........he was understanding and did it for me!’

HE? I would never have thought that of you.......!!!!

It’s a long story Kets 😫

[TipperaryBaggie]

Grip achieved Al

[Yarmbaggie]

I think more than anything anyone under 45 probably has a heck of a lot more money than we ever had in the 60s and definitely a lot more opportunities to spend it.

Even when we were both working and before we had kids we never had money to regularly go out clubbing, drinking and going to restaurants, let alone paying for Sky, overseas holidays etc etc etc.

Everyone nowadays has so much and don’t get me on politicians telling me how much poverty there is in the UK. The problem is we at 69/70 can easily adjust our lifestyle. We have saved to be comfortable in our dotage and just moan about the fact this will be only the second winter spent in the UK in the last 12 years and we won’t have 2 months in Oz/NZ. What a shame!

Thankfully we are old enough to appreciate what we do have. I think the younger ones have had it so good for so long, they don’t appreciate what they do have. Hopefully one of the things that come out of this virus is that there will be a change of values for many and they will start to see what is important and what is not.

[mickd1961]

I think more than anything anyone under 45 probably has a heck of a lot more money than we ever had in the 60s and definitely a lot more opportunities to spend it.

Even when we were both working and before we had kids we never had money to regularly go out clubbing, drinking and going to restaurants, let alone paying for Sky, overseas holidays etc etc etc.

Everyone nowadays has so much and don’t get me on politicians telling me how much poverty there is in the UK. The problem is we at 69/70 can easily adjust our lifestyle. We have saved to be comfortable in our dotage and just moan about the fact this will be only the second winter spent in the UK in the last 12 years and we won’t have 2 months in Oz/NZ. What a shame!

Thankfully we are old enough to appreciate what we do have. I think the younger ones have had it so good for so long, they don’t appreciate what they do have. Hopefully one of the things that come out of this virus is that there will be a change of values for many and they will start to see what is important and what is not.

Very well said Yarm.

I’m 59 and although I didn’t have the same hardships as my parents and grandparents my childhood was quite a humble one.

Never hungry but presents for birthday and Xmas were on a very tight budget and me and my brother often ate properly whilst mum and dad had jam and bread.

A two mile walk to school and back each day with a car journey only in extreme weather if I was lucky.

Power cuts and living under candlelight in the 70’s and many days off school due to those power cuts and lessons on some days wearing coats and gloves because the classroom was so cold.

We didn’t have central heating until I was 8 and my one nan never had it and she died at the end of 1990.

Today’s youth have no idea what even basic sacrifices feel like.

[DaveP67 is back!]

Very well said Yarm.

I’m 59 and although I didn’t have the same hardships as my parents and grandparents my childhood was quite a humble one.

Never hungry but presents for birthday and Xmas were on a very tight budget and me and my brother often ate properly whilst mum and dad had jam and bread.

A two mile walk to school and back each day with a car journey only in extreme weather if I was lucky.

Power cuts and living under candlelight in the 70’s and many days off school due to those power cuts and lessons on some days wearing coats and gloves because the classroom was so cold.

We didn’t have central heating until I was 8 and my one nan never had it and she died at the end of 1990.

Today’s youth have no idea what even basic sacrifices feel like.

I think tho it’s us as parents and the way society is now set up that is the big issue! Most kids don’t go out to play independently anymore, our generation used to be up and out and only back in for mealtimes, we made our own games and rules and without constant parental or supervisory presence worked things out I.e if you put effort in you get reward. Today’s kids don’t have this everything is governed with clubs and adult supervision at every step.. We needs to let them be more independent and not through any fault of theirs constantly look for that support be it parents or society..

[mickd1961]

I think tho it’s us as parents and the way society is now set up that is the big issue! Most kids don’t go out to play independently anymore, our generation used to be up and out and only back in for mealtimes, we made our own games and rules and without constant parental or supervisory presence worked things out I.e if you put effort in you get reward. Today’s kids don’t have this everything is governed with clubs and adult supervision at every step.. We needs to let them be more independent and not through any fault of theirs constantly look for that support be it parents or society..

My “kids” are 35, 31 and 28 so were all t e e n age during the 2000-2009 era mate and I let them do exactly as I did in the 70’s.

They went out with mates from 13+ and hung around local estates and no doubt had a fag and drank the odd can.

Even though the eldest two were girls I surprised myself by never interfering in their relationships unless I was asked to step in.

I ended up with two very sensible daughters who are now themselves very good mothers and a son who can be an utter f u c k wit.

He would’ve ended up like he has regardless of whatever culture I’d brought him up in, he’s just wired in a weird way, probably due to brain injury at birth.

If his birth had happened in this era a large lawsuit would’ve followed due to medical incompetence in the delivery room, I cut him extra slack due to the visible injuries I saw on him after birth to be honest.

Kids don’t need the hyper protection they now get, I will encourage both of my daughters to allow our two grandchildren to be given the freedom they were as it did them no harm.

[WBA1955]

I think more than anything anyone under 45 probably has a heck of a lot more money than we ever had in the 60s and definitely a lot more opportunities to spend it.

Even when we were both working and before we had kids we never had money to regularly go out clubbing, drinking and going to restaurants, let alone paying for Sky, overseas holidays etc etc etc.

Everyone nowadays has so much and don’t get me on politicians telling me how much poverty there is in the UK. The problem is we at 69/70 can easily adjust our lifestyle. We have saved to be comfortable in our dotage and just moan about the fact this will be only the second winter spent in the UK in the last 12 years and we won’t have 2 months in Oz/NZ. What a shame!

Thankfully we are old enough to appreciate what we do have. I think the younger ones have had it so good for so long, they don’t appreciate what they do have. Hopefully one of the things that come out of this virus is that there will be a change of values for many and they will start to see what is important and what is not.

The difference is we got paid weekly in cash and paid the bills first. What was left was yours. Today it's all direct debit so you never see money. Add to that credit cards, people are spending on the never.
I had well paid job's in the seventies, I was broke on Wednesday and a girl i knew used to take me to Wolverhampton for a meal.
42" tits she had.😛

[kettering_baggie]

I bet you couldn’t eat the meal quickly enough..........!

[Albionic68]

I bet you couldn’t eat the meal quickly enough..........!

I very much doubt even Des' had room for food in his gob along with all of that lot....

[WBA123]

I think more than anything anyone under 45 probably has a heck of a lot more money than we ever had in the 60s and definitely a lot more opportunities to spend it.

Even when we were both working and before we had kids we never had money to regularly go out clubbing, drinking and going to restaurants, let alone paying for Sky, overseas holidays etc etc etc.

Everyone nowadays has so much and don’t get me on politicians telling me how much poverty there is in the UK. The problem is we at 69/70 can easily adjust our lifestyle. We have saved to be comfortable in our dotage and just moan about the fact this will be only the second winter spent in the UK in the last 12 years and we won’t have 2 months in Oz/NZ. What a shame!

Thankfully we are old enough to appreciate what we do have. I think the younger ones have had it so good for so long, they don’t appreciate what they do have. Hopefully one of the things that come out of this virus is that there will be a change of values for many and they will start to see what is important and what is not.

Rubbish!

Its now more expensive than ever to go to University and to buy a house. A 50+ year old would never feel the hardship of someone who is 18 years old today will have to go through something that was relatively cheap and easier for their generation. The 50+ generation had it easy if you are comparing the two.

Someone going to University now might never pay off their tuition fees.

The average house price in 1980 was £20,000 and today its £250,000.
Average salary in 1980 was £6,000 and today its about £30,000.
House prices have far exceeded increases in salaries.
Not only that, I imagine it was also easier to get a mortgage from the bank at that time.

A massive difference in cost of living, considering your house is the most expensive purchase you will ever make.

[mickd1961]

Rubbish!

Its now more expensive than ever to go to University and to buy a house. A 50+ year old would never feel the hardship of someone who is 18 years old today will have to go through something that was relatively cheap and easier for their generation. The 50+ generation had it easy if you are comparing the two.

Someone going to University now might never pay off their tuition fees.

The average house price in 1980 was £20,000 and today its £250,000.
Average salary in 1980 was £6,000 and today its about £30,000.
Not only that, I imagine it was also easier to get a mortgage from the bank at that time.

A massive difference in cost of living, considering your house is the most expensive purchase you will ever make.

Average U.K. house price is just under £232k

Average price at end of 1980 was nearly £21k

Average salary now is around £31,400

Average salary in 1980 was £6000.

What gets forgotten is the crushing interest rates we had to pay, when I first had a mortgage in 1987 there was a point where I was paying 18-19% interest rates.

Life certainly didn’t feel easy in the 70’s and early 80’s for me as a shop worker.

[Baggie Sharon]

The mortgage my then husband and I took out in 1984 was £95.00 per month, went up quickly month by month till it reached £160. He was earning £60 per week as a glass blower in the Stourbridge glass works and I was a working part time with a small child. It may not sound a lot by today's rates but was really tough. We probably had less deposit to find to be fair but every penny counted and I well remember taking in typing and sitting in a freezing cold bedroom, couldn't afford to heat it. My adult children live a different life and I'm glad, however, I think i'm better off for a bit of hardship!

[WBA1955]

I bet you couldn’t eat the meal quickly enough..........!

😂😂😂😂

[Yarmbaggie]

Rubbish!

Its now more expensive than ever to go to University and to buy a house. A 50+ year old would never feel the hardship of someone who is 18 years old today will have to go through something that was relatively cheap and easier for their generation. The 50+ generation had it easy if you are comparing the two.

Someone going to University now might never pay off their tuition fees.

The average house price in 1980 was £20,000 and today its £250,000.
Average salary in 1980 was £6,000 and today its about £30,000.
House prices have far exceeded increases in salaries.
Not only that, I imagine it was also easier to get a mortgage from the bank at that time.

A massive difference in cost of living, considering your house is the most expensive purchase you will ever make.

Oh the innocence of youth, and the patronisation!

When I left Grammar school (1968) around 6% of students went to University, only about 45% of houses were owned and most rented, or as a single person leaving home, as I did you rented a room in someone else’s house.

Building Society mortgages were very difficult to get for ordinary people and they only could lend based upon the savings they had themselves. No Banks etc were allowed to agree mortgages. You usually had to make a deposit which was way beyond the means of any working people and repayments were limited by most Societies to a monthly repayment of one weeks salary for the main earner (usually the husband). Most houses only had one income and Repayments were over a maximum of 25 years.

Interest rates in 1968 were 7 5/8%.

No the house wasn’t the most expensive item we purchased in the late 60s because we, our parents, or grandparents of working people could not afford it. I agree we didn’t live on HP because we couldn’t get it and we didn’t want it. The priority was getting food on the table and that is the one thing that has dramatically changed. Food on the table is no longer the priority for many!

Yes we had weekly cash wages and I can still see the different tins in our kitchen which Mum saved for bills etc because the other thing was I at about 21 in 1972 became the FIRST person in my whole family to open a Bank account, because we didn’t have them either let alone credit cards.

[WBA123]

Oh the innocence of youth, and the patronisation!

When I left Grammar school (1968) around 6% of students went to University, only about 45% of houses were owned and most rented, or as a single person leaving home, as I did you rented a room in someone else’s house.

Building Society mortgages were very difficult to get for ordinary people and they only could lend based upon the savings they had themselves. No Banks etc were allowed to agree mortgages. You usually had to make a deposit which was way beyond the means of any working people and repayments were limited by most Societies to a monthly repayment of one weeks salary for the main earner (usually the husband). Most houses only had one income and Repayments were over a maximum of 25 years.

Interest rates in 1968 were 7 5/8%.

No the house wasn’t the most expensive item we purchased in the late 60s because we, our parents, or grandparents of working people could not afford it. I agree we didn’t live on HP because we couldn’t get it and we didn’t want it. The priority was getting food on the table and that is the one thing that has dramatically changed. Food on the table is no longer the priority for many!

Yes we had weekly cash wages and I can still see the different tins in our kitchen which Mum saved for bills etc because the other thing was I at about 21 in 1972 became the FIRST person in my whole family to open a Bank account, because we didn’t have them either let alone credit cards.

You know much more about life in the 70's than I do, perhaps we both have a point. If the worry back then was putting food on the table, then the worry now is spiraling debt to pay for a home and education.

Also, I didn't factor in the interest rate explosion of the 80's - courtesy of the government who most on here still vote and vouch for. But I would say (without looking it up) that most people owned a house in the 80's than didn't own one. I think the next generation of young people will seriously struggle to get on the housing market without help from their parents.

If the average house is £232k as Mick says, and the banks mostly want a 20% deposit now, when you take into account stamp duty and other fees - that's about £50k a young person or couple would have to stump up front. Some students come out of Uni at 21 years old £50k+ in debt. Unless you're from quite a wealthy background, how can you afford these things? We're not talking about anything flashy, we're talking about a home and education.

So its all opinions, but I don't buy the 'young people have it easy' mantra from a generation who saw record increases of prices on their homes in the 80's and 90's.

[mickd1961]

You know much more about life in the 70's than I do, perhaps we both have a point. If the worry back then was putting food on the table, then the worry now is spiraling debt to pay for a home and education.

Also, I didn't factor in the interest rate explosion of the 80's - courtesy of the government who most on here still vote and vouch for. But I would say (without looking it up) that most people owned a house in the 80's than didn't own one. I think the next generation of young people will seriously struggle to get on the housing market without help from their parents.

If the average house is £232k as Mick says, and the banks mostly want a 20% deposit now, when you take into account stamp duty and other fees - that's about £50k a young person or couple would have to stump up front. Some students come out of Uni at 21 years old £50k+ in debt. Unless you're from quite a wealthy background, how can you afford these things? We're not talking about anything flashy, we're talking about a home and education.

So its all opinions, but I don't buy the 'young people have it easy' mantra from a generation who saw record increases of prices on their homes in the 80's and 90's.

Another point you miss whilst outlining the utopia in which we lived in the 70’s and 80’s is this.

Our parents not only expected us to save our own deposit to buy a house but in most cases there was simply no other choice because they didn’t have the means with which to help.

A large number of us who in your generation’s parlance have “benefited” financially have then passed a lot of this on to their children.

The “bank of mum and dad” has been a huge contributor to society during the last 20 odd years.

I have three children and the eldest two are daughters who are both married.

We paid in totality for both weddings due to there being no assistance from their husband’s side of the family.

We then gave each of them a third of the value of their first house as a deposit so they could get on the housing ladder as well as having a manageable mortgage.

A lot of my generation have given this sort of help to their kids.

We seem to be a target for the younger generation these days, especially the university community.

[stripes39]

Also, I didn't factor in the interest rate explosion of the 80's - courtesy of the government who most on here still vote and vouch for.

That's not quite true 123 although I do agree with several of your other points.

Following the 'Winter of Discontent' when every man and his dog were on strike, inflation was already running at 25% at the time Dennis Healey went to the IMF to get us bailed out as we were bankrupt. Thatcher / the Conservatives truly inherited a croc of sh** so it was inevitable things needed to change.

The Conservative government raised interest rates sharply and brought in tough public spending curbs due to inflation being out of control. It might be a point of debate as to how this was addressed but we were truly a basket case in the 70's. I was a young school kid at the time but I do remember being sent home several times due to the UK only having power for 3 days a week. So, the high interest rates in the 80's were caused by a variety of reasons but to say it was all down to the Conservatives / Thatcher is simply incorrect as the UK needed radical surgery.

I'm sure there's one or two on here who remember it better than I do.

[Yarmbaggie]

[QUOTE=WBA123;39664759]You know much more about life in the 70's than I do, perhaps we both have a point. If the worry back then was putting food on the table, then the worry now is spiraling debt to pay for a home and education.

Also, I didn't factor in the interest rate explosion of the 80's - courtesy of the government who most on here still vote and vouch for. But I would say (without looking it up) that most people owned a house in the 80's than didn't own one. I think the next generation of young people will seriously struggle to get on the housing market without help from their parents.

If the average house is £232k as Mick says, and the banks mostly want a 20% deposit now, when you take into account stamp duty and other fees - that's about £50k a young person or couple would have to stump up front. Some students come out of Uni at 21 years old £50k+ in debt. Unless you're from quite a wealthy background, how can you afford these things? We're not talking about anything flashy, we're talking about a home and education.

So its all opinions, but I don't buy the 'young people have it easy' mantra from a generation who saw record increases of prices on their homes in the 80's and 90's.[/

I have copied this article from The Guardian so I am sure you will be happy with the political slant on what was happening in the 70s and 80s.

1970s
Britain had its first experience of a housing bubble during the so-called Barber boom of 1973. An easing of credit conditions by the Bank of England coupled with the go-for-growth strategy of the Conservative chancellor, Tony Barber, resulted in house-price inflation peaking at 36%. The average price of a home, which had risen from £2,000 to £5,000 between 1950 and 1970, doubled in the next three years. The boom ended when the Yom Kippur war and the Opec oil embargo ushered in the stagflation of the mid-1970s.

1980s

Offering council tenants the right to buy their own homes was suggested to Jim Callaghan at the end of the 1970s. He rejected the idea but it was pounced upon by Margaret Thatcher, who made it the centrepiece of her political pitch to the aspirational working classes. Those who took advantage of the offer quickly saw the value of their assets surge in Britain's second big housing bubble – the Lawson boom. House prices rose by 16% in 1987 and a further 25% in 1988.

Hopefully you will see that the real benefactors from house price increases were mainly working class people ho bought their council or in our case coal board house at a discount. Up until Thatcher jumped on Callaghan’s idea of getting working class people on the property ladder, working class people had no assets to fall back on. We, the working class, had an asset and that is why so many families such as mine, could for the first time EVER vote conservative.

Yes we were mining families for 4 generations (both my younger brothers worked in the pits) and hated what ultimately happened to the industry but for once we had an asset for our family and future generations of our family to benefit from. Something we never had until we were encouraged to get on that property ladder in the 1980s.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Good post 923, I have visited England more times than I know, and normally spend 6-7 weeks there every year, and I find the English very polite and friendly.

I esp appreciate your thoughts about youngsters. How did some who were young in the 80s during another pandemic (HIV/AIDS, back then a certain death verdict for everyone, and some 37 million deaths, in total, so far) behave, regarding eg safe s ex (btw, I’m not a good example)?

It seems SB only you and I on here have a high opinion of The English. Everyone else seems to revel in the national occupation of Brit Bashing. Quite sad really.

As a nation we are appalling when it comes to our litter. Every other country I've been to seems to be better at picking it up. Probably goes along with the failure to clean up at McD. We have massively improved cleaning up after our dogs a practice our Gallic cousins have yet to learn.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Tosh!

My lad's girlfriend is American. She has worked as a waitress in Italy, France and England. Her experience including her homeland is the English are by far away the most polite.

The French respect the police. Sacre Bleu! Ask a gendarme who was injured after the rave in Brittany. Italians and Spaniards also have little respect for their law officers.

Why are we all so ready to run down England and criticise the youth?

AS for 'youngsters' and their behaviour it is easy for us to judge. As an OAP it is not too much of an ask for me to settle in front of the tele with a cup of cocoa every night. But what if I was student and hadn't been out much and I heard there was a party in the bar downstairs or a 20 year old and knew a party with booze, music and girls. Whichever tier I'm in?

So my question to any 'oldie' who cares to answer. Could you put your hand on your heart and state with total certainty 'I would give these pleasures up and adhere to the restrictions?'

I'm not sure I could.

I notice no one has replied to my question. Too difficult for you?

[DaveP67 is back!]

I notice no one has replied to my question. Too difficult for you?

It’s a fair question and certainly I was no angel in the 80’s went on a few 18-30 holidays with my mates, like most smoked the odd joint drank to much had the odd punch up and whilst never a druggie the odd dab of speed did the rounds at the clubs quite often in my youth. As you have said it’s easy for us to follow the rules but looking back to me as a ****ager being mostly ruled by ‘the old chap‘ I’m not sure I would have abided by it too the letter, couldn’t imagine going months without any then that’s for sure! Hindsight is a great thing, but I’m so different from that lad as are most of the mates I grew up with that I would hope to say other than sliding out the downstairs bedroom window or sliding the old girlfriend in I would have complied but I might be kidding myself...

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

I found the kids and youth element in Australia to be the same as you mention for the Yanks mate.

Polite, helpful, engaging and grown up beyond their years.

How have we ended up with such a bunch of t w a t s for youngsters?

Have we reaped what we’ve sewn with our welfare state and with our overly “PC” and now “Woke” culture?

In general I find out youth to be far too overly opinionated for their life experience, I think soft parenting and the failure to confront you’re own children for their shortcomings is a big part of the problem.

BaggieAl knows of the huge problems I’ve had with my own son, I have never kept this hidden from family and friends and I’ve had to be honest with myself, my son and everyone who knows us.

Too much “*****footing” in general in this country, all its done is breed a nation of 13 - 40 year olds who despise their own country, their own parents as well as making them supercilious and self superior.

For as long as I’m around my own grandchildren will be dealt with by me in the same way my parents and grandparents dealt with me ( minus the smacking) and they’ll either like it or lump it.

My one daughter is a single mother and I’m incredibly proud of how she brings up three year old Leo.

Everyone remarks at how well mannered and polite he is, that’s because she or me pull him up every single time a please or thank you is required.

I said “ thank you” to him for something the other day and he surprised me by replying.....”you’re welcome” 😎😆😆

It just takes a bit of effort to maintain standards but in this country parenting is too lazy in my opinion.

I would so love to live in Australia for 3-6 months a year.

If you think you are going to get away from Woke attitudes by moving to Australia you are very much mistaken.

My nephew lives in Sydney. He is thoroughly fed up with his 8 year old returning home from school full of the latest on Aboriginal issues (I think it's OK to say Aboriginal but not Aboriginee and I think First People is the preferred option. FFS before every Aussie Park Run you have to listen to the same speech about how grateful we all to The First People for the use of their land.

I have 3 kids of a similar age to your own and like you I have many disagreements with them re their 'overly PC and Woke views' which I fear will only get more pronounced and indoctrinated into our society. But

Their views on non-whites, homos exuals and feminists are so much more mature than mine were in the 70's and 80's and although I am concerned about how far these will go I am in fact proud they think way rather than the views I had at their age which quite frankly I embarrassed to contemplate. So when you state "we ended up with such a bunch of t w a t s for youngsters" can you exclude my 3 please?

PS knowing you as I do I am confident you will be an avid supporter of this decision by the Aussie Govt

Prisoners and people with chronic obesity will be among the first people to receive a COVID-19 vaccine when the program is rolled out in Australia

[baggieal]

I notice no one has replied to my question. Too difficult for you?



I replied so read the thread! I spend a huge amount of time in the US and some things are great and some are awful so was very accurate on my findings. All people from the US will think Brits are lovely - the Queen - History and the Accent! They see what they want to see and it's not bad manners, pools of vomit on a Sunday morning, not many please or thank you's! How many Brits clear tables including plates and cutlery in fast food restaurants - lucky to be 5%.

PS - third hand information you have from a young girl so see something in your own eyes before passing comment.

[mickd1961]

If you think you are going to get away from Woke attitudes by moving to Australia you are very much mistaken.

My nephew lives in Sydney. He is thoroughly fed up with his 8 year old returning home from school full of the latest on Aboriginal issues (I think it's OK to say Aboriginal but not Aboriginee and I think First People is the preferred option. FFS before every Aussie Park Run you have to listen to the same speech about how grateful we all to The First People for the use of their land.

I have 3 kids of a similar age to your own and like you I have many disagreements with them re their 'overly PC and Woke views' which I fear will only get more pronounced and indoctrinated into our society. But

Their views on non-whites, homos exuals and feminists are so much more mature than mine were in the 70's and 80's and although I am concerned about how far these will go I am in fact proud they think way rather than the views I had at their age which quite frankly I embarrassed to contemplate. So when you state "we ended up with such a bunch of t w a t s for youngsters" can you exclude my 3 please?

PS knowing you as I do I am confident you will be an avid supporter of this decision by the Aussie Govt

Prisoners and people with chronic obesity will be among the first people to receive a COVID-19 vaccine when the program is rolled out in Australia

Get a life 923.

You’re always to willing to points score.

I’m not in the f u c k I n g mood for this today if it’s all the same with you!

[kettering_baggie]

If you think you are going to get away from Woke attitudes by moving to Australia you are very much mistaken.

My nephew lives in Sydney. He is thoroughly fed up with his 8 year old returning home from school full of the latest on Aboriginal issues (I think it's OK to say Aboriginal but not Aboriginee and I think First People is the preferred option. FFS before every Aussie Park Run you have to listen to the same speech about how grateful we all to The First People for the use of their land.

I have 3 kids of a similar age to your own and like you I have many disagreements with them re their 'overly PC and Woke views' which I fear will only get more pronounced and indoctrinated into our society. But

Their views on non-whites, homos exuals and feminists are so much more mature than mine were in the 70's and 80's and although I am concerned about how far these will go I am in fact proud they think way rather than the views I had at their age which quite frankly I embarrassed to contemplate. So when you state "we ended up with such a bunch of t w a t s for youngsters" can you exclude my 3 please?

PS knowing you as I do I am confident you will be an avid supporter of this decision by the Aussie Govt

Prisoners and people with chronic obesity will be among the first people to receive a COVID-19 vaccine when the program is rolled out in Australia

Prisoners? Why? Strange priority.

[WBA123]

[QUOTE=WBA123;39664759]

I have copied this article from The Guardian so I am sure you will be happy with the political slant on what was happening in the 70s and 80s.

1970s
Britain had its first experience of a housing bubble during the so-called Barber boom of 1973. An easing of credit conditions by the Bank of England coupled with the go-for-growth strategy of the Conservative chancellor, Tony Barber, resulted in house-price inflation peaking at 36%. The average price of a home, which had risen from £2,000 to £5,000 between 1950 and 1970, doubled in the next three years. The boom ended when the Yom Kippur war and the Opec oil embargo ushered in the stagflation of the mid-1970s.

1980s

Offering council tenants the right to buy their own homes was suggested to Jim Callaghan at the end of the 1970s. He rejected the idea but it was pounced upon by Margaret Thatcher, who made it the centrepiece of her political pitch to the aspirational working classes. Those who took advantage of the offer quickly saw the value of their assets surge in Britain's second big housing bubble – the Lawson boom. House prices rose by 16% in 1987 and a further 25% in 1988.

Hopefully you will see that the real benefactors from house price increases were mainly working class people ho bought their council or in our case coal board house at a discount. Up until Thatcher jumped on Callaghan’s idea of getting working class people on the property ladder, working class people had no assets to fall back on. We, the working class, had an asset and that is why so many families such as mine, could for the first time EVER vote conservative.

Yes we were mining families for 4 generations (both my younger brothers worked in the pits) and hated what ultimately happened to the industry but for once we had an asset for our family and future generations of our family to benefit from. Something we never had until we were encouraged to get on that property ladder in the 1980s.

Its a fair response. The ability to buy council houses was one of her better policies and I can see the link you are making towards that and Tories gaining the working class vote. I also recognise she walked into a mess when she was elected.

However, although slightly before my time, I can't say the Thatcher I read about ever really cared about the working man. I'm not sure she created this policy out of her compassion and goodwill - it was probably financially related. The very high interest rates and high unemployment figures, many years into her leadership, reflected the lack of protection she offered the working class. And presumably you are from the North East, the disdain she treated people in northern towns and cities was, in my view, disgusting.

So although one of her very few good policies was allowing people to buy their council houses easier and cheaper, it doesn't strike me as a Prime Minister who fought hard for working classes when you take into account her other acts as leader.

[WBA123]

Prisoners? Why? Strange priority.

I don't know the answer to this, but if I were to hedge my bets I'd say its because that's the area where the virus is spreading quicker than anywhere else.

Its why some people have called for students and school children to be placed higher up in the priority list for a vaccination in the UK. Even though they are relatively low risk. I'd agree with that too.

Vaccinate the vulnerable and over 70's first. And then next on the priority list should be the under 21's to help slow the spread of the virus.

[kettering_baggie]

Stay at home, don’t go out; I would have thought that prisoners could manage that!

[stripes39]

I don't know the answer to this, but if I were to hedge my bets I'd say its because that's the area where the virus is spreading quicker than anywhere else.

Its why some people have called for students and school children to be placed higher up in the priority list for a vaccination in the UK. Even though they are relatively low risk. I'd agree with that too.

Vaccinate the vulnerable and over 70's first. And then next on the priority list should be the under 21's to help slow the spread of the virus.

The under 21’s should not be priorities. They just need to follow the rules like everyone else. If they follow the rules they won’t spread it. Or is it some won’t be told what to do so they spread it in any case?

I hope the police everywhere follow the Mets example and start nailing these selfish w******

I can think of a load of people who should be before them. Aside from elderly and medically vulnerable, there are plenty who need to be in front of the U21’s such as public transport and supermarket staff

[baggieal]

The under 21’s should not be priorities. They just need to follow the rules like everyone else. If they follow the rules they won’t spread it. Or is it some won’t be told what to do so they spread it in any case?

I hope the police everywhere follow the Mets example and start nailing these selfish w******

I can think of a load of people who should be before them. Aside from elderly and medically vulnerable, there are plenty who need to be in front of the U21’s such as public transport and supermarket staff



Totally agree Stripes! Many bang on about teachers
being priority for the vaccine which I don’t disagree with but supermarket staff meet all sorts of riff raff and are constantly indoors without the luxury of opening windows for fresh air and they are one establishment that can’t close!

[TipperaryBaggie]

[QUOTE=Yarmbaggie;39664890]


However, although slightly before my time, I can't say the Thatcher I read about ever really cared about the working man.

I think that Thatcher did care about the working man 123, it was the non working man she didn't care much for!

[mickd1961]

[QUOTE=WBA123;39665103]

I think that Thatcher did care about the working man 123, it was the non working man she didn't care much for!

That is a brilliant summary Tip.

She hated the work shy and the people doing a bad job and constantly wanting more money.

She was the supporter and cheer leader for the “working man”.

She also had no time for state handouts to industries that had had their day.

As a ****ager I had no time for her, I think it was her voice as much as anything!

As I grew older I realised just what a colossus she was, without question her and Churchill are our greatest PM’s of the last 75 years.

[baggieal]

[QUOTE=TipperaryBaggie;39665358]

That is a brilliant summary Tip.

She hated the work shy and the people doing a bad job and constantly wanting more money.

She was the supporter and cheer leader for the “working man”.

She also had no time for state handouts to industries that had had their day.

As a ****ager I had no time for her, I think it was her voice as much as anything!

As I grew older I realised just what a colossus she was, without question her and Churchill are our greatest PM’s of the last 75 years.


What a woman she was!!! No s hit and didn’t mess around! I remember when the Falklands were invaded she said the ships will sail - next morning from Portsmouth they did indeed and nobody messed with her. Great PM and this country would be a far better place if someone like her was around! Look at Tony Blair - what a complete knobs he was fighting an illegal war and having a wife who was getting rich in helping those who should have been deported!

[WBA123]

[QUOTE=WBA123;39665103]

I think that Thatcher did care about the working man 123, it was the non working man she didn't care much for!

Whom she created millions of

[WBA123]

[QUOTE=mickd1961;39665375]


What a woman she was!!! No s hit and didn’t mess around! I remember when the Falklands were invaded she said the ships will sail - next morning from Portsmouth they did indeed and nobody messed with her. Great PM and this country would be a far better place if someone like her was around! Look at Tony Blair - what a complete knobs he was fighting an illegal war and having a wife who was getting rich in helping those who should have been deported!

Its amazing the difference of opinion we have. I think Blair was 100 times the PM she was

[WBA123]

The under 21’s should not be priorities. They just need to follow the rules like everyone else. If they follow the rules they won’t spread it. Or is it some won’t be told what to do so they spread it in any case?

I hope the police everywhere follow the Mets example and start nailing these selfish w******

I can think of a load of people who should be before them. Aside from elderly and medically vulnerable, there are plenty who need to be in front of the U21’s such as public transport and supermarket staff

The question is if you want to suppress the fire where it is at its fiercest.

Most 30-60 year olds are not high risk, and most will stay in with a cup of cocoa in front of the TV.

I don't disagree with you about frontline workers by the way. But if we are smart, we hit the virus early where it is at its worst.

[baggieal]

[QUOTE=baggieal;39665437]

Its amazing the difference of opinion we have. I think Blair was 100 times the PM she was



Blair and his darling Cherie filled their back pockets 100 times more than any other PM XD

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

[QUOTE=baggieal;39665437]

Its amazing the difference of opinion we have. I think Blair was 100 times the PM she was

For me we in my time we have had only 2 PM's I rated Thatcher and Blair in that order. Had a lot of time for Cameron until the end.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

I replied so read the thread! I spend a huge amount of time in the US and some things are great and some are awful so was very accurate on my findings. All people from the US will think Brits are lovely - the Queen - History and the Accent! They see what they want to see and it's not bad manners, pools of vomit on a Sunday morning, not many please or thank you's! How many Brits clear tables including plates and cutlery in fast food restaurants - lucky to be 5%.

PS - third hand information you have from a young girl so see something in your own eyes before passing comment.

I stand corrected you did indeed reply. You didn't however answer the question.

I was in the States for 3 months in 2019 and stayed with both an East and West Coast family for some of time. I had previously seen most of the major sights so was more interested in 'real' America. My lad has lived there for 5 years so I do have some knowledge. Can I suggest you check if I have seen things with my own eyes before passing comment.

BTW my lads gf telling me how polite she found Brits is not third hand.

[Leicesterbaggie]

As far as I'm concerned, Blair and his wife were a pair of 'chancers looking to make as much financially as they could.

[mickd1961]

As far as I'm concerned, Blair and his wife were a pair of 'chancers looking to make as much financially as they could.

It’s well known that Blair greatly admired Thatcher and widely regarded he was closer to being a Tory than being a true Labour man at heart.

I voted for Blair in 97 and 2001 and I would agree that until his “God Complex” took over he was our best PM of my adult life.

I had high hopes for Cameron but he became another Obama.......he flattered to deceive.

I have a feeling that Rishi Sunak could be a terrific PM.

I also had high hopes for Labour’s Dan Jarvis but he seems to have dropped off the map in recent times.

If Labour are ever to take power again they need to get over this sneering attitude towards what they see as “Upper Class” and the same attitude their “Liberal Elite” display towards their former type of supporters from hard working communities.

Starmer is the right sort from the perspective he doesn’t wage the “class war” because as a “Sir” that would obviously be ludicrous.

I’m just not sure he has the quality of soldier beneath him in the party.

Too many Rebecca Wrong-Daily firebrands still there in the party ready to cause trouble.

[stripes39]

[QUOTE=baggieal;39665437]

Its amazing the difference of opinion we have. I think Blair was 100 times the PM she was

Al, Thatcher didn't lie and fabricate fake intelligence reports in order to get us in to an illegal war that cost billions of pounds and countless innocent lives. Neither was she any US Presidents poodle unlike Blair was to Bush Junior.

Blair or should that be Bliar's part in removing Saddam and Gaddafi etc created the mess we now face in the Middle East with the rise of groups like ISIS. So, I can never consider Blair a good PM in all honesty despite the fact that domestically I can see why he won votes asa he was electable for sure unlike Corbyn.

[stripes39]

The question is if you want to suppress the fire where it is at its fiercest.

Most 30-60 year olds are not high risk, and most will stay in with a cup of cocoa in front of the TV.

I don't disagree with you about frontline workers by the way. But if we are smart, we hit the virus early where it is at its worst.

Why should under 21's be exempt from the rules everyone else has to follow? Would you be arguing that they should be allowed to keep the curtains open in a blackout were we in WW2 because they don't like staying in?

Nobody likes what's happening which is why most people feel that the elderly and vulnerable along with key workers should be first as many do not have a choice in catching it. I don't think the U21's who are missing out on a good time are a good enough reason to be prioritised.

As for your comments about 30-6- year olds, that is simply patronising nonsense.

[WBA123]

Why should under 21's be exempt from the rules everyone else has to follow? Would you be arguing that they should be allowed to keep the curtains open in a blackout were we in WW2 because they don't like staying in?

Nobody likes what's happening which is why most people feel that the elderly and vulnerable along with key workers should be first as many do not have a choice in catching it. I don't think the U21's who are missing out on a good time are a good enough reason to be prioritised.

As for your comments about 30-6- year olds, that is simply patronising nonsense.

I'm not saying they should be exempt from the rules. I'm saying they should be prioritised for the jab, because its not the U21's who are suffering, its the people they are infecting who are. This is the age group where the virus is spreading faster than anywhere else.

You can't stop 5 and 6 year olds from not practicing social distancing. And whether it pains you or not, there are a lot of ****agers who don't follow the rules - there are adults much older than they who don't too.

And I must be patronising myself then, I love a cup of cocoa! Most over 30s have got families and are settled down.

All healthy 21-60 year olds who are not key workers should have the jab last in my opinion.And the priority should be given to the vulnerable and where the virus is spreading at its peak. Just seems to make the most sense to me.

[mickd1961]

I'm not saying they should be exempt from the rules. I'm saying they should be prioritised for the jab, because its not the U21's who are suffering, its the people they are infecting who are. This is the age group where the virus is spreading faster than anywhere else.

You can't stop 5 and 6 year olds from not practicing social distancing. And whether it pains you or not, there are a lot of ****agers who don't follow the rules - there are adults much older than they who don't too.

And I must be patronising myself then, I love a cup of cocoa! Most over 30s have got families and are settled down.


All healthy 21-60 year olds who are not key workers should have the jab last in my opinion.And the priority should be given to the vulnerable and where the virus is spreading at its peak. Just seems to make the most sense to me.

I’d like to revisit this quote in 20 yers when I’m 79 and you’re the 59 that I am now 123.

At 38-39 I still felt invincible and then at New Year 1999 into 2000 I caught flu for the only time in my life.........it absolutely floored me and I said to my wife that if I’d been 70-80 I wouldn’t have survived it.

Although now 59 and still jogging etc for 5 miles a day I’ve just had tests because I’m getting discomfort and some pain in my right chest at certain times.

ECG and blood test was fine so I’m awaiting s chest X-ray.

All I can say to you is that your mindset in your 60th year will be very different to what it was in your 40th year.

It’s amazing how experiencing a shortness of breath for even a few minutes at a time like I have makes you realise how dangerous this could be.

I’m not on the vulnerable list either as nothing has been diagnosed and I think it’s probably 50/50 as to whether I live if I catch Covid.

At best!

[kettering_baggie]

There is no evidence that anyone that has received the vaccination cannot pass the virus on as a carrier, so inoculating younger people won’t necessarily protect older people. It is so easy to criticise Boris and his government for the way they are handling all this but can anyone really say that so-and-so would have done it better? I’m no fan of Boris but as sure as hell I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes at the moment having to deal with all this ****. The media questions to him are pathetic, all negative. On this evening’s coronavirus update the first question asked by the BBC woman was about whether he had criticised Trump enough about last night’s Capitol Building invasion. What agenda are the BBC following?

[Titchfieldbaggie]

There is no evidence that anyone that has received the vaccination cannot pass the virus on as a carrier, so inoculating younger people won’t necessarily protect older people. It is so easy to criticise Boris and his government for the way they are handling all this but can anyone really say that so-and-so would have done it better? I’m no fan of Boris but as sure as hell I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes at the moment having to deal with all this ****. The media questions to him are pathetic, all negative. On this evening’s coronavirus update the first question asked by the BBC woman was about whether he had criticised Trump enough about last night’s Capitol Building invasion. What agenda are the BBC following?

I watched the earlier intro to this,too, where a knighted Oxford professor (missed his name) was being extremely upbeat on the epidemiology front, when he was challenged by the journalist as to why the UK response wasn't as good as New Zealand. He just said 'Low population. Many sheep. Don't go there!'. Summed it up perfectly for me.

[DaveP67 is back!]

And some on here were arguing better to be part of the EU scheme on vaccine purchase!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55575756