Signing Backgrounds

[queenslandpie]

So I have had a quick and basic look at where we have signed players from. I have ignored loan players. The vast majority of our squad do not have a background in this division. There are one or two good ones to come out of this such as Wootton probably being the number one EFL signing for example but by and large my opinion is that this recruitment strategy is not working. Take a look at the list below. Interestingly the few we have brought in from NL are all pretty good. Of the EFL ones Lacey, Rawlinson and Wootton and Slocombe I would keep. Still hard even at this stage to pass comment on Sam and Rodrigues. I do think we need to be looking more at non league for players. They will be cheaper, more accustomed to the rigors of the division and probably more eager. The majority of that side won't be playing for us next season regardless of the division we are in.


Player Club
Slocombe Bristol Rovers EFL
Pilling Tranmere EFL
Brindley Bromley NL
Turner Mansfield EFL
Barnett Oldham EFL
Rawlinson Port Vale EFL
Mccrory Burton EFL
Kelly Evans Kettering NL
Chicksen Bolton EFL
Alex Lacey Gillingham EFL
Reeves Bradford EFL
O'Brien Bradford EFL
Doyle Coventry EFL
Wootton S****horpe EFL
Roberts Morpeth NL
Boldjewinn Crawley EFL
Rodrigues Portugal N/A
Sam Holland N/A

[ncfcog]

So I have had a quick and basic look at where we have signed players from. I have ignored loan players. The vast majority of our squad do not have a background in this division. There are one or two good ones to come out of this such as Wootton probably being the number one EFL signing for example but by and large my opinion is that this recruitment strategy is not working. Take a look at the list below. Interestingly the few we have brought in from NL are all pretty good. Of the EFL ones Lacey, Rawlinson and Wootton and Slocombe I would keep. Still hard even at this stage to pass comment on Sam and Rodrigues. I do think we need to be looking more at non league for players. They will be cheaper, more accustomed to the rigors of the division and probably more eager. The majority of that side won't be playing for us next season regardless of the division we are in.


Player Club
Slocombe Bristol Rovers EFL
Pilling Tranmere EFL
Brindley Bromley NL
Turner Mansfield EFL
Barnett Oldham EFL
Rawlinson Port Vale EFL
Mccrory Burton EFL
Kelly Evans Kettering NL
Chicksen Bolton EFL
Alex Lacey Gillingham EFL
Reeves Bradford EFL
O'Brien Bradford EFL
Doyle Coventry EFL
Wootton S****horpe EFL
Roberts Morpeth NL
Boldjewinn Crawley EFL
Rodrigues Portugal N/A
Sam Holland N/A

I think every single one of them has had experience of playing at a higher level, in fact when you start doing the background checks you do start to wonder why they aren’t tearing this league up.

[Glad2BeAPie]

I think every single one of them has had experience of playing at a higher level, in fact when you start doing the background checks you do start to wonder why they aren’t tearing this league up.

Our negative style of play might be a a reason

[queenslandpie]

I think our recruitment strategy is very clear to see here. I agree on paper they should be. Even the fringe players like Chicksen have considerable experience in higher divisions. Probably the only one without EFL experience is Roberts who is probably ( if he gets over these injuries) the best of the lot. I think we need to have a long look at that. The majority will be gone at the end of the season and there are not many I would keep. Reeves, Doyle, Turner, Barnett, McCrory, Chicksen, Obrien, Boldjewin won't be here in a playing capacity surely. I might do the same exercise on some of the other squads at the top, i.e. Sutton, Torquay, Hartlepool.

[drillerpie]

Our negative style of play might be a a reason

This. I think it's the system. I mentioned Effiong the other day - 17 goals last season at Dover, including proving himself a difficult customer against us.

He comes to Notts and says he is having to learn the new system, new runs to make and new places to be, and now he looks a shadow of his former self.

The manager is slavishly devoted to his system, trusting the processes and the patterns of play he always speaks about, but then in his post match interview against Kings Lynn laments how they brought a big man on up front and put our centre halves under pressure and almost inevitably got a goal.

So why is it that when we put our (objectively decebt) big man on, instead of making a goal inevitable he can barely control the ball or stay on his feet?

Tactics are interesting message board fodder but maybe we are over complicating things. We've got good players for the level - does anyone really think performances and results would be any worse if in the dressing room before a match we gave them a simple but effective game plan and wound them up?

Moot point really as we will persist with filling their heads with algebra and 'calming them down'.

[nw6pie]

I think every single one of them has had experience of playing at a higher level, in fact when you start doing the background checks you do start to wonder why they aren’t tearing this league up.

I’d be surprised if most of the players at NL level haven’t drifted down the leagues over the years or are on loan from league clubs - Woking have Matt Jarvis and he’s played at the top level for Wolves and West Ham. I’m sure Solihull had someone who’d gone for big transfer sums over the years when we played them, too.

The test for me is how many of the players listed above genuinely look too good for this league? Not many in overall play, and the only difference is perhaps the number of great goal we score compared to other teams in the division.

[the_anticlough]

I agree with the posters on this thread that say its the deployment not the recruitment..
The recruitment's been pretty varied really and isn't the issue IMO.

Two points though...
The way to get out of this league is to pack the team with players who are too good for it. The way to stay is to pack the team with players who belong here (remembering it's only 1 up from 24 clubs and then the trials of the play-offs for another 1). So no to a lot more recruitment from the NL

The worst recruitment over the past ten or so years has been the old pros/bigger names at the end of their careers - Stead/Smith/Doyle/O'Brien/Turner have been the most frustrating players I've seen and they get picked time after time after time...

[TSANHO]

I agree with the posters on this thread that say its the deployment not the recruitment..
The recruitment's been pretty varied really and isn't the issue IMO.

Two points though...
The way to get out of this league is to pack the team with players who are too good for it. The way to stay is to pack the team with players who belong here (remembering it's only 1 up from 24 clubs and then the trials of the play-offs for another 1). So no to a lot more recruitment from the NL

The worst recruitment over the past ten or so years has been the old pros/bigger names at the end of their careers - Stead/Smith/Doyle/O'Brien/Turner have been the most frustrating players I've seen and they get picked time after time after time...

+1 for those saying that it’s the deployment of the tactics, not the personnel, that’s causing us most problems.

I’ve said before that some of the players look lost, or like strangers, so maybe they just don’t fully understand what the hell Ardley is on about....the manager has said himself that the players haven’t done as they’ve been told to on numerous occasions.

I can’t see it changing now but it should be simple, especially in this division....

Win the midfield early, and when you do keep your foot on the throat of the opposition and don’t let up until the game is won. Only once you have the midfield can you play your fancy football....we seem to forget this is every game we play. How many times in the last two seasons have our midfield dominated an opposition in this way? I’m honestly struggling to think of a single game. I thought this was the very basic foundations of winning a game.

[LaxtonLad]

Our negative style of play might be a a reason

It can only be the manager, can't it? What other reason can there be for players brought in by Marmite to change from being effective at their last club to being really average, or worse, when they come under his influence, then back to decent players when they leave? I strongly suspect the positive play and goals scored by Notts occur when two or three players abandon Ardley's caucus race. They use their own footballing experience to abandon the caution of looking for someone in space - there isn't anybody there - or passing the ball back into minefield, and just have a go at it.

If Dear Leader thinks we can top this league by playing a la Man. City he ought to try buying millionaire players but I reckon he would turn them into non-league stuff within a month.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

This. I think it's the system. I mentioned Effiong the other day - 17 goals last season at Dover, including proving himself a difficult customer against us.

He comes to Notts and says he is having to learn the new system, new runs to make and new places to be, and now he looks a shadow of his former self.

The manager is slavishly devoted to his system, trusting the processes and the patterns of play he always speaks about, but then in his post match interview against Kings Lynn laments how they brought a big man on up front and put our centre halves under pressure and almost inevitably got a goal.

So why is it that when we put our (objectively decebt) big man on, instead of making a goal inevitable he can barely control the ball or stay on his feet?

Tactics are interesting message board fodder but maybe we are over complicating things. We've got good players for the level - does anyone really think performances and results would be any worse if in the dressing room before a match we gave them a simple but effective game plan and wound them up?

Moot point really as we will persist with filling their heads with algebra and 'calming them down'.

On fire again driller, another great post..

[queenslandpie]

This. I think it's the system. I mentioned Effiong the other day - 17 goals last season at Dover, including proving himself a difficult customer against us.

He comes to Notts and says he is having to learn the new system, new runs to make and new places to be, and now he looks a shadow of his former self.

The manager is slavishly devoted to his system, trusting the processes and the patterns of play he always speaks about, but then in his post match interview against Kings Lynn laments how they brought a big man on up front and put our centre halves under pressure and almost inevitably got a goal.

So why is it that when we put our (objectively decebt) big man on, instead of making a goal inevitable he can barely control the ball or stay on his feet?

Tactics are interesting message board fodder but maybe we are over complicating things. We've got good players for the level - does anyone really think performances and results would be any worse if in the dressing room before a match we gave them a simple but effective game plan and wound them up?

Moot point really as we will persist with filling their heads with algebra and 'calming them down'.

Effiong took penalties for Dover as well I think 5 are pens of that total so over the course of the season his goal return is very ordinary. To me he looks over weight and cumbersome and as you say he's obviously confused. Confused enough to miss an easy header and give a foul on the edge of his own area in injury time for no particular reason! No surprise Stevenage wanted rid of him. They are soaring up the table without him. Otherwise great points.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

So I have had a quick and basic look at where we have signed players from. I have ignored loan players. The vast majority of our squad do not have a background in this division. There are one or two good ones to come out of this such as Wootton probably being the number one EFL signing for example but by and large my opinion is that this recruitment strategy is not working. Take a look at the list below. Interestingly the few we have brought in from NL are all pretty good. Of the EFL ones Lacey, Rawlinson and Wootton and Slocombe I would keep. Still hard even at this stage to pass comment on Sam and Rodrigues. I do think we need to be looking more at non league for players. They will be cheaper, more accustomed to the rigors of the division and probably more eager. The majority of that side won't be playing for us next season regardless of the division we are in.


Player Club
Slocombe Bristol Rovers EFL
Pilling Tranmere EFL
Brindley Bromley NL
Turner Mansfield EFL
Barnett Oldham EFL
Rawlinson Port Vale EFL
Mccrory Burton EFL
Kelly Evans Kettering NL
Chicksen Bolton EFL
Alex Lacey Gillingham EFL
Reeves Bradford EFL
O'Brien Bradford EFL
Doyle Coventry EFL
Wootton S****horpe EFL
Roberts Morpeth NL
Boldjewinn Crawley EFL
Rodrigues Portugal N/A
Sam Holland N/A

I think it's the right strategy to get players from a higher level because generally they have the experience of playing at a higher level and also have a greater level of quality. However that is only part of the jigsaw. The second part is their temperament, fitness, mentality. Then it's how they all work together and galvanise as a team.

I don't doubt that we have the players and individual talent to be serious contenders at this level, however as a unit rightly or wrongly it seems at times we are less than the total sum of the parts. There have been two stand our moments for me this season where I feel we have reached our full potential. The first half against Barnet at home and the recent home game with ten men against Dagenham.

We are the biggest club in non-league and my fear is if we fill the team of non-league players we become an established non-league club over time rather than a temporary one, and if we were to get promoted we would struggle and could risk coming straight back which seems Barrow could be in danger of. We almost need promotion out of this league to be a catalyst to push the club forward and being competitive in league two like Shrewsbury, Bristol Rovers, Lincoln and Luton before us, rather than being a one season wonder to then struggle in the league above. That is what my hope would be by having players with EFL experience.

I'm not saying their are not merits with signing some non-league players, but if we do I would like them to be young players on their way up or who have had to take a step back to kick start their careers such as the likes of Cal Roberts, Kyle Wootton et al. What can then happen is as these players progress and grow then they follow the club up through the lower leagues. For me the clubs I've mentioned previously should be our blueprint.

[nw6pie]

I think it's the right strategy to get players from a higher level because generally they have the experience of playing at a higher level and also have a greater level of quality. However that is only part of the jigsaw. The second part is their temperament, fitness, mentality. Then it's how they all work together and galvanise as a team.

I don't doubt that we have the players and individual talent to be serious contenders at this level, however as a unit rightly or wrongly it seems at times we are less than the total sum of the parts. There have been two stand our moments for me this season where I feel we have reached our full potential. The first half against Barnet at home and the recent home game with ten men against Dagenham.

We are the biggest club in non-league and my fear is if we fill the team of non-league players we become an established non-league club over time rather than a temporary one, and if we were to get promoted we would struggle and could risk coming straight back which seems Barrow could be in danger of. We almost need promotion out of this league to be a catalyst to push the club forward and being competitive in league two like Shrewsbury, Bristol Rovers, Lincoln and Luton before us, rather than being a one season wonder to then struggle in the league above. That is what my hope would be by having players with EFL experience.

I'm not saying their are not merits with signing some non-league players, but if we do I would like them to be young players on their way up or who have had to take a step back to kick start their careers such as the likes of Cal Roberts, Kyle Wootton et al. What can then happen is as these players progress and grow then they follow the club up through the lower leagues. For me the clubs I've mentioned previously should be our blueprint.

I notice that King's Lynn's best player the other night, Sonny Carey, had been released by Norwich (he's only 20). One thing we've never seemingly been able to do is pick up decent players released by Forest, Derby and Leicester. Is that because they're not good enough, or are there more potential Cal Roberts' on our doorstep?

While I'm talking about talented young players, it's good to see our under-18s doing so well this season. It's a shame that no fans can actually watch them perform to see if there are any gems amongst them - you know, before some Premiership team comes and takes them off us. They beat Doncaster 4-2 yesterday, the latest in a string of winning performances (pretty sure we thrashed Huddersfield recently, too). Anyone on the board got any inside info on the players to watch?

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I notice that King's Lynn's best player the other night, Sonny Carey, had been released by Norwich (he's only 20). One thing we've never seemingly been able to do is pick up decent players released by Forest, Derby and Leicester. Is that because they're not good enough, or are there more potential Cal Roberts' on our doorstep?

While I'm talking about talented young players, it's good to see our under-18s doing so well this season. It's a shame that no fans can actually watch them perform to see if there are any gems amongst them - you know, before some Premiership team comes and takes them off us. They beat Doncaster 4-2 yesterday, the latest in a string of winning performances (pretty sure we thrashed Huddersfield recently, too). Anyone on the board got any inside info on the players to watch?

It's an interesting point you make about picking up decent players being released from Forest, Leicester and Derby. I do think it's important to forge good links and relationships with your neighbours in higher leagues in my opinion as it can offer a pool of talent for players to come on loan and also ones that are released. We saw this in recent years with Grant and Yates and Grealish who albeit was from Aston Villa they are a midlands club.

There are advantages as well because some of the youngsters may not have to move from where they are living as well. Obviously we are loaning Jimmy Knowles from Mansfield and in the position we are we should also look towards Lincoln.

Clubs like Bury, Oldham, Rochdale etc.. have always been able to tap into the pool of talent from the Manchester area and so should we in our region especially being in the heart of the East Midlands. That is also why it adds insult to injury that we got relegated out of the football league when there probably was talent within a 50 mile radius of Meadow Lane out there.

[the_anticlough]

Win the midfield early, and when you do keep your foot on the throat of the opposition and don’t let up until the game is won. Only once you have the midfield can you play your fancy football....we seem to forget this is every game we play. How many times in the last two seasons have our midfield dominated an opposition in this way? I’m honestly struggling to think of a single game. I thought this was the very basic foundations of winning a game.

I think you're getting to the heart of the problem. The Kings Lynn game - the lasting impression is of a really disconnected team, the defenders struggling to use the ball from the back and the forward players starved of decent possession - it's the midfield that should be joining up the dots and connecting these parts. Ardley's system is all about his playing patterns, 'playing through the lines' from the back. When the midfield fails to do this it's going to look ugly.

[crazyfists]

We all know it's the system and not recruitment, we should be tearing alot of teams in this league a new arsehole but we don't and will not for the foreseeable future.

[Bridg4d_Pie_]

This. I think it's the system. I mentioned Effiong the other day - 17 goals last season at Dover, including proving himself a difficult customer against us.

He comes to Notts and says he is having to learn the new system, new runs to make and new places to be, and now he looks a shadow of his former self.

The manager is slavishly devoted to his system, trusting the processes and the patterns of play he always speaks about, but then in his post match interview against Kings Lynn laments how they brought a big man on up front and put our centre halves under pressure and almost inevitably got a goal.

So why is it that when we put our (objectively decebt) big man on, instead of making a goal inevitable he can barely control the ball or stay on his feet?

Tactics are interesting message board fodder but maybe we are over complicating things. We've got good players for the level - does anyone really think performances and results would be any worse if in the dressing room before a match we gave them a simple but effective game plan and wound them up?

Moot point really as we will persist with filling their heads with algebra and 'calming them down'.

Well you are missing a point about Roberts for sure, he has played in the Premier with Newcastle.

[queenslandpie]

Well you are missing a point about Roberts for sure, he has played in the Premier with Newcastle.

Roberts 1 appearance for Newcastle was in the FA Cup. Incorrect.

[Bridg4d_Pie_]

Roberts 1 appearance for Newcastle was in the FA Cup. Incorrect.

The point was he had played for them be F A Cup or League, as a club they were in the Premier League.