The Moneyball Question . . .

[ncfcog]

Happened to watch this film (again) this week, firstly because it is one of my favourites and secondly I can relate to one of the main characters, unfortunately I'm more Jonah Hill than Brad Pitt!

It did leave me wondering about some of Ardley's team selections and tactics and with yesterday's news I wonder if this also had something to do with his departure.

We keep talking about the Bros stats approach to signing players but as became clear for the Oakland Athletics if you don't utilise those players in the way they were intended based on statistical evidence you are essentially p1ssing in the wind.

When you watch Eli Sam for example you can tell he has much more about him than has been utilised. I would also argue that he might be better playing off Wootton or a no.10 and not out wide. The only times he has been played in a top two has been with Knowles in cup games.

The Bros' scouts would have highlighted a number of key attributes and I'm not sure Ardley really utilised him as intended.

I've only used Sam as an example for the sake of condensing my post but I do wonder if this would have been a contributing factor.

Of course the other side of this approach is about player investment and the business side of the club so the likes of Roberts and Knight were obvious examples of this, but Sam and Rodrigues were definitely statistically scouted.

So the question is, much like the team coach in the film, did Ardley fail to utilise these signings as expected by the owners?

[Evesham Pie]

I suspect that this misuse of potential is one of the issues in the decision. I also wonder whether the increased amount of defensive work expected of flair/forward players also damaged their stats, a hallmark of NA's more defensive approach to games. And our approach to tippy tappy can't have helped with lots of possession but simply playing too much in the wrong half of the pitch and not creating enough chances.

[Bushwacka]

I'd guess that the only Football Radar signings so far have been Sam and Rodrigues (plus Sloth, but that would have been a choice from the heart, rather than stats based). It's obvious that the owners have been patient and not interfered with selection, but Sam's lack of game time and Rodrigues being on the bench 2 games running won't have helped Ardley.

I think they've decided that even if Ardley got us up, they want to sign players who fit in with a style/approach that they and the manager agree on, rather than scouting more players to fit Ardley's style.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Happened to watch this film (again) this week, firstly because it is one of my favourites and secondly I can relate to one of the main characters, unfortunately I'm more Jonah Hill than Brad Pitt!

It did leave me wondering about some of Ardley's team selections and tactics and with yesterday's news I wonder if this also had something to do with his departure.

We keep talking about the Bros stats approach to signing players but as became clear for the Oakland Athletics if you don't utilise those players in the way they were intended based on statistical evidence you are essentially p1ssing in the wind.

When you watch Eli Sam for example you can tell he has much more about him than has been utilised. I would also argue that he might be better playing off Wootton or a no.10 and not out wide. The only times he has been played in a top two has been with Knowles in cup games.

The Bros' scouts would have highlighted a number of key attributes and I'm not sure Ardley really utilised him as intended.

I've only used Sam as an example for the sake of condensing my post but I do wonder if this would have been a contributing factor.

Of course the other side of this approach is about player investment and the business side of the club so the likes of Roberts and Knight were obvious examples of this, but Sam and Rodrigues were definitely statistically scouted.

So the question is, much like the team coach in the film, did Ardley fail to utilise these signings as expected by the owners?

Love the film and yes it sounds more than reasonable to believe your theory...actually one I agree with .
But that was the problem Ardleys inability to find his best team from a talented squad IMO...

[the_anticlough]

Happened to watch this film (again) this week, firstly because it is one of my favourites and secondly I can relate to one of the main characters, unfortunately I'm more Jonah Hill than Brad Pitt!

It did leave me wondering about some of Ardley's team selections and tactics and with yesterday's news I wonder if this also had something to do with his departure.

We keep talking about the Bros stats approach to signing players but as became clear for the Oakland Athletics if you don't utilise those players in the way they were intended based on statistical evidence you are essentially p1ssing in the wind.

When you watch Eli Sam for example you can tell he has much more about him than has been utilised. I would also argue that he might be better playing off Wootton or a no.10 and not out wide. The only times he has been played in a top two has been with Knowles in cup games.

The Bros' scouts would have highlighted a number of key attributes and I'm not sure Ardley really utilised him as intended.

I've only used Sam as an example for the sake of condensing my post but I do wonder if this would have been a contributing factor.

Of course the other side of this approach is about player investment and the business side of the club so the likes of Roberts and Knight were obvious examples of this, but Sam and Rodrigues were definitely statistically scouted.

So the question is, much like the team coach in the film, did Ardley fail to utilise these signings as expected by the owners?

Yes, I'm convinced this had a large part to play.
It's interesting you bring US sports into it (even if only fictional). Their sports operate far more professionally than ours.
It'd be unthinkable in the NBA for example to jettison your young stars in favour of has beens essentially. Just makes no business sense at all. I suspect this has had the Reedtz brothers tearing their hair out.
Under pressure, it's easy for a manager like NA to give his ear to the senior pros (who have their own agenda of course), be influenced by the dressing room politics and then think it's normal to think 'pick Doyle, drop Sam, Rodrigues...'
This short-sighted amateurism though, probably going completely against their player development philosophy, must have driven them nuts IMO

[jacobncfc]

I'd guess that the only Football Radar signings so far have been Sam and Rodrigues (plus Sloth, but that would have been a choice from the heart, rather than stats based). It's obvious that the owners have been patient and not interfered with selection, but Sam's lack of game time and Rodrigues being on the bench 2 games running won't have helped Ardley.

I think they've decided that even if Ardley got us up, they want to sign players who fit in with a style/approach that they and the manager agree on, rather than scouting more players to fit Ardley's style.

Average age of the starting line up on Tuesday was north of 30 as well which clearly isn’t what they want.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Yes, I'm convinced this had a large part to play.
It's interesting you bring US sports into it (even if only fictional). Their sports operate far more professionally than ours.
It'd be unthinkable in the NBA for example to jettison your young stars in favour of has beens essentially. Just makes no business sense at all. I suspect this has had the Reedtz brothers tearing their hair out.
Under pressure, it's easy for a manager like NA to give his ear to the senior pros (who have their own agenda of course), be influenced by the dressing room politics and then think it's normal to think 'pick Doyle, drop Sam, Rodrigues...'
This short-sighted amateurism though, probably going completely against their player development philosophy, must have driven them nuts IMO

It says it was based on a true story..
But then again so did the film Fargo and it wasnt...

[the_anticlough]

It says it was based on a true story..
But then again so did the film Fargo and it wasnt...

haven't seen either, big gaps in my film-watching probably...
I thought you meant 'Argo' for a second, now there's a true story to watch

[ncfcog]

Everything in Moneyball is very close to the truth and actually based on a true story. After turning the fortunes around of Oakland and a record breaking 20 game winning streak general Manager Billy Beane was offered a multimillion dollar deal to manage the Red Sox that would have made him the highest paid professional in the sport. he turned it down, the red sox adopted the moneyball approach and I think won the world series (I know lol) 2 years later.