Burchnall Ball wont ever get us promoted

[jonnyt1]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Arter and Palmer doesn't work. It should be one or the other. Most of the time Wootton was left stranded on his own with little or no support, so not surprising Torquay put us under pressure.

My conclusion is that Burchnall has to go, his style won't work at this level and will leave us languishing in the National League.

[The-Mac pie]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Arter and Palmer doesn't work. It should be one or the other. Most of the time Wootton was left stranded on his own with little or no support, so not surprising Torquay put us under pressure.

My conclusion is that Burchnall has to go, his style won't work at this level and will leave us languishing in the National League.

Don’t hear much from you JT.
So when we do there is something boiling away on the back burner.
Yes I agree to quiet a lot there of what you said,and think he needs to mix it up much more than playing what’s called playing the ball on the floor too much.
I love to see when it goes wonderfully right and we play teams off the park with panache,but have always wondered whether that will get us out this league????????

[durhampie]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Arter and Palmer doesn't work. It should be one or the other. Most of the time Wootton was left stranded on his own with little or no support, so not surprising Torquay put us under pressure.

My conclusion is that Burchnall has to go, his style won't work at this level and will leave us languishing in the National League.

We are becoming the team that everyone wants to play. If we dont get promoted, then Burchnall has to go.. Its not much good playing nice tippy tappy football with no end product...

[Glad2BeAPie]

I bet Torquay would swap league places tho

[The-Mac pie]

I bet Torquay would swap league places tho

They may well do if we don’t pull our finger out

[countygump]

I've nothing against 2U-2Me, when it worx it's a pleasure to watch. It doesn't always work tho, does it?

[durhampie]

They would have been above us if they didn't have such a bad start to the season, having lost a number of their better players..

[laddo]

They may well do if we don’t pull our finger out

They won't.

[laddo]

They would have been above us if they didn't have such a bad start to the season, having lost a number of their better players..

They lost those (better) players because they didn't get promoted through the play off us like us last season. Maybe their owners aren't as ambitious as ours ;)

[LaxtonLad]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Arter and Palmer doesn't work. It should be one or the other. Most of the time Wootton was left stranded on his own with little or no support, so not surprising Torquay put us under pressure.

My conclusion is that Burchnall has to go, his style won't work at this level and will leave us languishing in the National League.

My thoughts exactly, johnny1. The top teams who play the ball out from the back have highly paid internationals doing it - we don't. The goalkeeper rolling the ball to a defender who knows he can pick out a team-mate who in turn is confident of his pass reaching someone it's supposed to, is not something we're usually see in non-league. It does happen though - Ive seen it! Just not as regularly as the Man City crowd do. We ought to be playing to the strengths we have, not to what Burchinall thinks we ought to have.

[countygump]

They lost those (better) players because they didn't get promoted through the play off us like us last season. Maybe their owners aren't as ambitious as ours ;)

Their owners are as equally ambitious as ours. We went from three first team strikers to one.

[laddo]

Their owners are as equally ambitious as ours. We went from three first team strikers to one.

Yes that's the barometer for ambition lol. Not how many of your better players you retain through the off season but the number of strikers.

Didn't one of their 'better players' become our club captain and top 3 best performing player of the season to date?

[jacobncfc]

It’s infuriating because it’s so close to being able to work, but we appear to be so dogmatic that we won’t change the style even for a little bit during games to allow Plan A to work.

Everyone has just realised that if you press us really high and mark everyone from the short goal kicks, we’ll baffling try to do them anyway. So teams like Torquay can play miles up the pitch and leave loads of space in behind knowing we won’t (and don’t have the pace to without Nemane and Sam) even try and quickly exploit it. So we end up under loads of pressure because Rawlinson and Lacey, for all of their qualities, are rarely picking a splitting pass into midfield through the middle of a high press.

Just go directly in behind their defence quickly a few times and the opposition will have to drop and give us the space we need to play the style we want. It really shouldn’t be rocket science, but it’s easier for opposition managers when we won’t adapt during games at all.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

They would have been above us if they didn't have such a bad start to the season, having lost a number of their better players..

As we did through injury

[nw6pie]

It’s infuriating because it’s so close to being able to work, but we appear to be so dogmatic that we won’t change the style even for a little bit during games to allow Plan A to work.

Everyone has just realised that if you press us really high and mark everyone from the short goal kicks, we’ll baffling try to do them anyway. So teams like Torquay can play miles up the pitch and leave loads of space in behind knowing we won’t (and don’t have the pace to without Nemane and Sam) even try and quickly exploit it. So we end up under loads of pressure because Rawlinson and Lacey, for all of their qualities, are rarely picking a splitting pass into midfield through the middle of a high press.

Just go directly in behind their defence quickly a few times and the opposition will have to drop and give us the space we need to play the style we want. It really shouldn’t be rocket science, but it’s easier for opposition managers when we won’t adapt during games at all.

I haven’t seen many games live this season, but the ones I saw felt like all of our football was pre-programmed with no room for variety or spontaneity. That was especially the case with everything emanating from our keeper. How hard is it to work on a few patterns in training where the keeper kicks it long too? I know IB says he likes it when the opposition press high because it creates space further up the pitch, but some of our players just can’t cope with it.

It was interesting watching the Man. City v Liverpool game yesterday to see how often City looked for a long ball out to the left wing. They’d clearly identified TAA as suspect defensively or that he was playing quite narrow and sought to exploit that. In other words, the best footballing team in the country had more options than just playing out from the back, thus making themselves harder to predict/play against.

[jackal2]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Difficult to argue with that, but I'm still hopeful that Burchnall himself will realise he needs to adopt a more flexible approach. If he does, then promotion can be achieved. If he doesn't, he'll go the same way as Keith Curle.

[SwalePie]

Get in! Presumably jonnyt1's post means we're going up?

(Welcome back too JT!)

[51Magpie]

I haven’t seen many games live this season, but the ones I saw felt like all of our football was pre-programmed with no room for variety or spontaneity. That was especially the case with everything emanating from our keeper. How hard is it to work on a few patterns in training where the keeper kicks it long too? I know IB says he likes it when the opposition press high because it creates space further up the pitch, but some of our players just can’t cope with it.

It was interesting watching the Man. City v Liverpool game yesterday to see how often City looked for a long ball out to the left wing. They’d clearly identified TAA as suspect defensively or that he was playing quite narrow and sought to exploit that. In other words, the best footballing team in the country had more options than just playing out from the back, thus making themselves harder to predict/play against.

Spot on, as was jacobncfc. Teams in the higher divisions seem to be given the freedom to mix it up occasionally but players in lower league clubs (we're not the only ones) whose managers decide they're going to play out from the back seem to be under threat of a firing squad if they ever play a long ball over the top.

[Notts78]

I would prefer IB to stay. We can’t keep chopping and changing managers and squads, especially when it’s obvious we are a gnats knacker from being more than competitive for automatic promotion.
However, I agree with the sentiments about how we play. The old footballing phrase of earning the right to play is one that couldn’t be more applicable to Notts.
The big issue for me is that the recruitment has been with one style of play only. Wootton is not a target man, so we can’t go long to him. We dont even have an alternative for him. Sam is still way to raw and not IMO capable of holding his own against big, horrible CB’s. All the central midfielders are the same. All pretty footballers but no real variety - with the exception of Ruben, if we want to count him.
As has already been mentioned we don’t have pace in forward areas so teams know they can press us high and still be compact.
I would keep the majority of the squad who are under contract. What is a must for me is to get more height and pace in the squad as well as a natural scorer. We are probably 3-4 players away from having a very good squad.

[laddo]

Plenty of good accurate considered stuff in this thread. Some chaff but plenty of wheat also.

[legs77]

I've nothing against 2U-2Me, when it worx it's a pleasure to watch. It doesn't always work tho, does it?

Not much does work for us to be fair !

[slack_pie]

I'm afraid I agree with the OP. It's a nice idea to try to play football the 'right' way, but in reality, we need to be able to mix it up. The teams that do well at this level are packed full of runners, they press high and fast, and are well organised. They invariably have an ugly side, which we don't.

The best teams are horrible to play against not because they pass in triangles and kill you with fluid movement, but because they relentlessly close you down and win the 50-50s. Teams like Halifax. We sorely miss a nasty midfielder whose job is to win the ball. Or a nasty anyone. Look at Wright at Torquay - not the best striker in the world but horrible to play against. Certainly not the kind of player Notts would sign though.

[laddo]

Not much does work for us to be fair !

Boom!

That appears to be often overlooked, we have seen plenty of different styles and approaches that "doesn't always work". Most clubs are the same that is why promotions aren't common. But we are certainly overdue one.

[Elite_Pie]

Boom!

That appears to be often overlooked, we have seen plenty of different styles and approaches that "doesn't always work".

But nearly all of them "didn't always work" at a higher level than this. What could be termed almost acceptable then isn't acceptable now.

Unless you class a point at the likes of Dover as a decent point.

[Big Bob]

They lost those (better) players because they didn't get promoted through the play off us like us last season. Maybe their owners aren't as ambitious as ours ;)
And if we don't get promoted we'll lose our players as well

[laddo]

But nearly all of them "didn't always work" at a higher level than this. What could be termed almost acceptable then isn't acceptable now.

Unless you class a point at the likes of Dover as a decent point.

Well that's stating the obvious because until we got relegated in 2019 we haven't been at this level, that doesn't change the fact we've tried lots of approaches and styles and they commonly didn't work. That's football.

I don't class a point at Dover as a decent point, nor did I class it when we played away at the bottom of the table sides in L2 and L1 and drew. When that happened same comments appeared on NCM , we shouldn't be drawing with {insert small town team}.

We got hammered by Torquay 5-1 on Saturday. I've seen us lose 5-0 at home to Macclesfield, 6-1 at Daggenham and 5-1 at Rushden which had the added embarrassment as I was representing the club and guests of the home side. I'm sure you saw one of those games. When they happened same comments appeared on NCM embarrassing getting d!cked on by {insert team with smaller crowds than Notts and/or less history}.

Unless almost everything clicks you don't get promoted whether you play 'to me, to you' football or 'gerritt forward bypass midfield' hoofball.

[laddo]

And if we don't get promoted we'll lose our players as well

Yes Bob that's how it usually works. Except last season we didn't thanks to the owners.

[Elite_Pie]

Well that's stating the obvious because until we got relegated in 2019 we haven't been at this level, that doesn't change the fact we've tried lots of approaches and styles and they commonly didn't work.

I think we all know that. The point you seem to have missed is that the lower we sink, the more we should expect to beat teams who have a fraction of our support and facilities. It's not being arrogant, it's refusing to accept continued failure without a word of criticism.

[Glad2BeAPie]

I think we all know that. The point you seem to have missed is that the lower we sink, the more we should expect to beat teams who have a fraction of our support and facilities. It's not being arrogant, it's refusing to accept continued failure without a word of criticism.
Sutton, Harrogate, Hartlepool, Borehamwood, Solihull, Halifax don't have the same support or facilities but it don't seem to be hindering them.

[uysapie]

Sutton, Harrogate, Hartlepool, Borehamwood, Solihull, Halifax don't have the same support or facilities but it don't seem to be hindering them.

They don't play tippy tappy football across the back either. They seem to be better equipped for this league.

[The-Mac pie]

Get in! Presumably jonnyt1's post means we're going up?

(Welcome back too JT!)
Hey swale
Hope your right
JT rarely makes a post nowadays so when he does it has to be respected
Nice to see you back onboard

[Glad2BeAPie]

They don't play tippy tappy football across the back either. They seem to be better equipped for this league.
Exactly my friend

[hissingdwarf]

I’m afraid I agree. If we don’t go up (and I honestly don’t think we deserve to…) IB needs to go…BUT
We are kitted out for possession triangle play. The owners pulled IB in for that very reason. The recruitment model (which must have took a massive hit with Brexit) is geared to that.
We don’t have the ability to dominate if the “through the thirds” doesn’t work.

Genuinely concerned we are putting ourselves in a position of same old, same old. If we remove IB, does anyone see the owners bringing in an “old fashioned” style coach? I certainly don’t and think we’ll end up with another tippy tippy style.
No dogged determination about the team. No hard man routine. Rawlinson has tried, but we need more than a CB to be rough and ready. The middle is as soft as!

[jackal2]

I’m afraid I agree. If we don’t go up (and I honestly don’t think we deserve to…) IB needs to go…BUT
We are kitted out for possession triangle play. The owners pulled IB in for that very reason. The recruitment model (which must have took a massive hit with Brexit) is geared to that.
We don’t have the ability to dominate if the “through the thirds” doesn’t work.

Genuinely concerned we are putting ourselves in a position of same old, same old. If we remove IB, does anyone see the owners bringing in an “old fashioned” style coach? I certainly don’t and think we’ll end up with another tippy tippy style.
No dogged determination about the team. No hard man routine. Rawlinson has tried, but we need more than a CB to be rough and ready. The middle is as soft as!

I don't think we should get too carried away with the idea that the owners insist on this type of football to a fault. They are, by nature and profession, analytical people who will look at the evidence and shouldn't be too proud to adjust. I don't think it a matter of ego or rigid ideology for them. Obviously they would like to see us play attractive football that brings good crowds and perhaps they've aimed for perfection in that regard. I can't really knock them for that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're reaching the same conclusions as many of us about the type of player needed to add strength, aggression and character to what is currently a talented but somewhat 'nice' squad.

We're a bit like the Spurs and Arsenal of this league - capable of very good performances against most sides, but found wanting against the big guns and with a tendency to drop silly points elsewhere.

The real question may be whether IB is equally pragmatic and willing to adjust away from his rather idealistic playing style in pursuit of a few more results away from home. When all's said and done, that's what's missing. We aren't a bad team - our home record is fine and we're in the play-offs with a number of winnable fixtures to come. It's a case of taking what's already there and adding the missing ingredients, both tactical and personnel.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

It’s infuriating because it’s so close to being able to work, but we appear to be so dogmatic that we won’t change the style even for a little bit during games to allow Plan A to work.

Everyone has just realised that if you press us really high and mark everyone from the short goal kicks, we’ll baffling try to do them anyway. So teams like Torquay can play miles up the pitch and leave loads of space in behind knowing we won’t (and don’t have the pace to without Nemane and Sam) even try and quickly exploit it. So we end up under loads of pressure because Rawlinson and Lacey, for all of their qualities, are rarely picking a splitting pass into midfield through the middle of a high press.

Just go directly in behind their defence quickly a few times and the opposition will have to drop and give us the space we need to play the style we want. It really shouldn’t be rocket science, but it’s easier for opposition managers when we won’t adapt during games at all.

I don’t think we are too far off either. At home we have only lost twice and have picked up a point less at home than Stockport. So our style of play at home and performances generally on the whole are good enough to be challenging for the title.

It’s away from home where we have fallen down this season again. Stockport have won double the amount of games away from home than what we have. Likewise Chesterfield and Wrexham are in second and third place. Three of our defeats on the road needed to have been wins to have kept us up with those three.

It’s like the reverse of the Keith Curle reign. We were the toughest side to beat away, but at home it didn’t work. With IB at home it works but away we have fallen short.

Regardless of what happens I’m hoping the club will analyse and go through all our away games and identify our failures and weaknesses and address it in the summer. Whether that’s by changing our style away from home and/or bringing in players who can make us stronger away from home and grind and fight out a win. It’s been the same the whole three seasons we’ve been at this level.

If we don’t learn and adapt to beat teams away from Meadow Lane we will never be serious contenders for the title.

[uysapie]

I don’t think we are too far off either. At home we have only lost twice and have picked up a point less at home than Stockport. So our style of play at home and performances generally on the whole are good enough to be challenging for the title.

It’s away from home where we have fallen down this season again. Stockport have won double the amount of games away from home than what we have. Likewise Chesterfield and Wrexham are in second and third place. Three of our defeats on the road needed to have been wins to have kept us up with those three.

It’s like the reverse of the Keith Curle reign. We were the toughest side to beat away, but at home it didn’t work. With IB at home it works but away we have fallen short.

Regardless of what happens I’m hoping the club will analyse and go through all our away games and identify our failures and weaknesses and address it in the summer. Whether that’s by changing our style away from home and/or bringing in players who can make us stronger away from home and grind and fight out a win. It’s been the same the whole three seasons we’ve been at this level.

If we don’t learn and adapt to beat teams away from Meadow Lane we will never be serious contenders for the title.

Not with IB that's looks certain. He is intransigent on tactics

[Davy500]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Arter and Palmer doesn't work. It should be one or the other. Most of the time Wootton was left stranded on his own with little or no support, so not surprising Torquay put us under pressure.

My conclusion is that Burchnall has to go, his style won't work at this level and will leave us languishing in the National League.

Your conclusion is correct

I said it from the beginning, IB was a poor choice of manager, based on his lack of experience , and that has pretty much played out as i predicted, we might as well of stuck with Ardley
The usual excuses, of we cant keep sacking managers, give him more time bla bla , maybe get the right manager in the first place

Over the years, we have had many managers, which some say is a reason for a downward spiral, the reason for our downward spiral is when we sack a manager we replace them with somebody worse, i mean the whole thing is one big joke , lets sack Ardley , and replace him with a manager with limited experience on a 4 year contract, you cant make this up, and you reap what you sow

[irishpete]

I said on the match fred & will say again, I believe the Owners are influencing the Coaches on what they want to see on the pitch. Little Nob did it to Nolan. Ardley isn't that style of play, maybe just maybe that was why he struggled. He is playing a completely differnt style @ SM, a style that suits this league. Don't believe for one minute they have a "big" budget like some on here claim.
You don't play tippy tappy in your own 1/3. All you do is put yourself under pressure for no reason. Citeh have been sussed, Arsenal conceded last season, 2 defenders playing it across the box against Burnley

[LaxtonLad]

Without a doubt every manager in this league know that our defence and midfield are under orders to play "tippy-tappy" football in our own half and not to relieve pressure by changing that tactic. It's not just that we are more than capable of losing the ball there, putting ourselves into an immediate panic that we should have a Plan B, it's also that we have only one striker upfield and he has to help out for corners, and one scoring midfielder who we rely on for goals. One of those has an off day and it's half a game gone and maybe a goal or two down before a sub comes on and still no Plan B.

Plan A has collapsed and our mananger is still standing on the touchline staring, silent, unmoving, but hearing the enemy manager shouting encouragement to his team, perhaps he's rehearsing in is mind what to say to the press or perhaps he's wondering what Doyle thinks of him.

[laddo]

So Laxton, every manager knows what we do and how to counter it yet many haven't done it with any success. How come? They know but just can't execute it? Or has Plan A worked a fair few times this season or maybe we just got lucky lots like we did under NA ;)

How many times has the passing about at the back directly cos us a goal this season? This question was asked a few months back and it was a struggle then , there must have been a recent rush.

Agree that Wootton's workload is too great, that's part of the reason I'm not on board with all the criticism he gets recording goalscoring only. Also agree that only have one main striker does allow teams to push more forward, play higher. When they do we haven't been effective enough to go direct and get in behind however many times IB says it post match.

Although to call Rodrigues a midfielder is a stretch. If so, then what a goals and assists return from our Portuguese magician#radar :)


This is like a school reunion, nice to see Davy and JonnyT come re-emerge. I remember when the latter said we would win the league and get 100 points or was it 100 goals? Great days :D

[slack_pie]

I’m afraid I agree. If we don’t go up (and I honestly don’t think we deserve to…) IB needs to go…BUT
We are kitted out for possession triangle play. The owners pulled IB in for that very reason. The recruitment model (which must have took a massive hit with Brexit) is geared to that.
We don’t have the ability to dominate if the “through the thirds” doesn’t work.

Genuinely concerned we are putting ourselves in a position of same old, same old. If we remove IB, does anyone see the owners bringing in an “old fashioned” style coach? I certainly don’t and think we’ll end up with another tippy tippy style.
No dogged determination about the team. No hard man routine. Rawlinson has tried, but we need more than a CB to be rough and ready. The middle is as soft as!

This is what concerns me. I can't see our owners appointing someone in the Warnock or Big Sam mould. And if we're just going to get an IB replica, why bother changing at all. If that's the case, the only reason to change would be if he'd lost the dressing room, which doesn't seem to be the case.

As others have said, all we really need to do is tweak the approach a bit. We can still aim to play possession-based football and nice triangles in general, but with a slightly harder, more pragmatic edge. We're just so extreme in our approach, playing without a single ball-winning midfielder. It's bonkers really.

[wiseoldmagpie]

I don't think that we are too far off being capable of a sustained promotion push. We need both flexibility in IB's set-up for away games, and we need 1 or 2 men of steel to ensure we gain control of the game, especially away from home. Like others I do not think we should have realistic expectations of promotion this year, but I would certainly keep IB in the hope that he can adapt to alternative approaches and that football radar identifies a couple of canny reinforcers.

Same home form + 6 more wins away = likely promotion.

Surely more likely to bring success than returning to go without collecting £200 and a new manager/coach?

Maybe Warnock should be hired as a consultant to educate IB on the dark arts of winning ugly?

[applepie2]

To what extent is the difference between home and away down to the pitches? We know Meadow Lane is large and beautifully surfaced, and we’re in charge of watering it late on. All that suits our players.

I think Burchnall needs to ponder what to do about tighter more crowded pitches, lumpier pitches, muddier pitches, slower pitches. There’s also possibly a psychological effect on both teams of a relatively inspiring Meadow Lane compared with some very non-league grounds away from home. We need a different attitude away from home, and a different style of play.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

It's quite surprising how things have changed at Meadow Lane..I think the excuse originally used to explain our poor home form when Ardley was in charge was that teams upped their game when coming to such a beautiful ground and were treating it as their cup final..!!
Now it's more of a fortress, who would have guessed....
Perhaps it's more to do with the style of football employed..?

[ancientpie]

Your conclusion is correct

I said it from the beginning, IB was a poor choice of manager, based on his lack of experience , and that has pretty much played out as i predicted, we might as well of stuck with Ardley
The usual excuses, of we cant keep sacking managers, give him more time bla bla , maybe get the right manager in the first place

Over the years, we have had many managers, which some say is a reason for a downward spiral, the reason for our downward spiral is when we sack a manager we replace them with somebody worse, i mean the whole thing is one big joke , lets sack Ardley , and replace him with a manager with limited experience on a 4 year contract, you cant make this up, and you reap what you sow

And so we get on the Magic Roundabout yet again, I cannot comment on IB because he was a complete unknown to me but I suspect that the 10 or so managers before him were seen as the best of the applicants that we could afford, however bad an owner might be I cannot see him deliberately employing a Numpty. This probably says much about the quality of applicants that we now attract & with every manager we prematurely sack they will get worse, anyone who thinks that we are going to attract a Warnock, Allerdice type figure or tempt someone with a good record from another professional club needs a reality check. As I have said on numerous occasions in the past (mainly to be proved correct) be careful what you wish for & don't sack any manager until you have a better one in place.

[laddo]

Your conclusion is correct

I said it from the beginning, IB was a poor choice of manager, based on his lack of experience , and that has pretty much played out as i predicted, we might as well of stuck with Ardley
The usual excuses, of we cant keep sacking managers, give him more time bla bla , maybe get the right manager in the first place

Over the years, we have had many managers, which some say is a reason for a downward spiral, the reason for our downward spiral is when we sack a manager we replace them with somebody worse, i mean the whole thing is one big joke , lets sack Ardley , and replace him with a manager with limited experience on a 4 year contract, you cant make this up, and you reap what you sow

That's all great but when somebody says get the "right manager in in the first place" or "get someone better in" whilst waving their magic wand. You ask these people who that is and you commonly get nothing but silence or if you are lucky a completely unrealistic suggestion.

As we've seen too often over the years it's very easy to say sack this guy but much harder to suggest a realistic plausible alternative.

When the time arises maybe we should look at the league table and gamble on a Wild or Garrard type. Although neither have won anything yet as far as I'm aware.

[The-Mac pie]

That's all great but when somebody says get the "right manager in in the first place" or "get someone better in" whilst waving their magic wand. You ask these people who that is and you commonly get nothing but silence or if you are lucky a completely unrealistic suggestion.

As we've seen too often over the years it's very easy to say sack this guy but much harder to suggest a realistic plausible alternative.

When the time arises maybe we should look at the league table and gamble on a Wild or Garrard type. Although neither have won anything yet as far as I'm aware.

So then if we do get rid of birch.
Would you say the new experienced manager get more from the players in the squad at the moment.
Would the players be flexible enough and able to change games when they’re not going our way
It’s all ifs n buts.
I personally think birch needs a more experienced number 2 that’s willing to switch a game on its head and stop being so predictable all the time
Remember the early days when birch would make an early change around the half mark and bring a player on that would try and change the game..
It was quiet refreshing to see him look at the game and take a gamble early

[laddo]

So then if we do get rid of birch.
Would you say the new experienced manager get more from the players in the squad at the moment.
Would the players be flexible enough and able to change games when they’re not going our way
It’s all ifs n buts.
I personally think birch needs a more experienced number 2 that’s willing to switch a game on its head and stop being so predictable all the time
Remember the early days when birch would make an early change around the half mark and bring a player on that would try and change the game..
It was quiet refreshing to see him look at the game and take a gamble early

Depends who the new experienced manager is, before I can even have a go at answer the question. That's my point in a nutshell. If the new experienced manager was say John Sheridan, then I would say no.

Agree about the proactive early substitutions not only was that refreshing , I'd not seen or heard anything like it before at Notts. What happened?!?!

[durhampie]

Depends who the new experienced manager is, before I can even have a go at answer the question. That's my point in a nutshell. If the new experienced manager was say John Sheridan, then I would say no.

Agree about the proactive early substitutions not only was that refreshing , I'd not seen or heard anything like it before at Notts. What happened?!?!

To be fair, he did make a couple of substitutions at half time. But yes you are right, In previous games he hasn't made any changes until around the 65th minute. Earlier in the season he made changes very early, especially when things were not going too well..

[laddo]

And more often than not the early substitutions and changes in formation worked. Not sure why it hasn't continued. Still he's braver with his substitutions and changes than many a Notts manager I've seen.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.

Arter and Palmer doesn't work. It should be one or the other. Most of the time Wootton was left stranded on his own with little or no support, so not surprising Torquay put us under pressure.

My conclusion is that Burchnall has to go, his style won't work at this level and will leave us languishing in the National League.

Thank god for that. Was getting worried about our chances.

[uysapie]

Any one still think IB will get us promoted?

[jackal2]

Playing tippy tappy football, thinking you are Man City in the National League just doesn't work. Torquay looked much better than us both defensively and offensively playing proper National League football.

We spend far too much time with the ball in our own half and don't have that ability to unlock defences that Man City do playing with that style. We need to be more direct and play in the oppositions half far more.


It’s infuriating because it’s so close to being able to work, but we appear to be so dogmatic that we won’t change the style even for a little bit during games to allow Plan A to work.

This sums it up for me.

I'm not at the point of calling for Burchnall to go. There are some aspects of his management and personality I really like and I want him to succeed. HOWEVER, I'm definitely at the point of telling him to wise the f*ck up and stop pretending this excessive commitment to possession-based football is going to deliver success. I'm not for one minute advocating we suddenly start playing hoofball, but I am saying we need more variety and a lot more aggression and steel to our game if we're going to grind out results away from home on a consistent basis. This demands changes in personnel and style of play.

If the manager is going to survive into next season and beyond, he needs to recruit some leaders and enforcers in midfield and defence, and be more willing to mix up the style of play according to the challenge we face. In some games, our footballing principles work and get results, but in others we need to battle far harder and play more directly if the circumstances demand it.

Burchnall either grasps this and acts on it, or he goes the same way as Keith Curle. His future is in his own hands.

[the_anticlough]

This sums it up for me.

I'm not at the point of calling for Burchnall to go. There are some aspects of his management and personality I really like and I want him to succeed. HOWEVER, I'm definitely at the point of telling him to wise the f*ck up and stop pretending this excessive commitment to possession-based football is going to deliver success. I'm not for one minute advocating we suddenly start playing hoofball, but I am saying we need more variety and a lot more aggression and steel to our game if we're going to grind out results away from home on a consistent basis. This demands changes in personnel and style of play.

If the manager is going to survive into next season and beyond, he needs to recruit some leaders and enforcers in midfield and defence, and be more willing to mix up the style of play according to the challenge we face. In some games, our footballing principles work and get results, but in others we need to battle far harder and play more directly if the circumstances demand it.

Burchnall either grasps this and acts on it, or he goes the same way as Keith Curle. His future is in his own hands.

Very good post Jackal, but we are going to have to see this season through with...

- the squad we assembled and have now
- the style and pattern of play they've been working on in games and in training all season

Yeah, they can implement better, battle harder, improve intensity throughout the game, mix it up a bit with a few variations by all means, but depart from what they've been doing, throw that away now and you throw away the last remaining chance we have this season. IB should learn though that he can't play around with his team selection - there are sudden drop offs and if you don't put your best team out, you are likely to lose.

[uysapie]

I still do not believe that IB will get us promoted.

[Robertomac]

Me either.

We're going backwards I think. At first I thought he was an improvement on Ardley, now I'm not sure there's a difference. Same slow build up, lack of urgency and generally gutless. Oh, and can't defend for toffee.

[uysapie]

Me either.

We're going backwards I think. At first I thought he was an improvement on Ardley, now I'm not sure there's a difference. Same slow build up, lack of urgency and generally gutless. Oh, and can't defend for toffee.

All about style, no substance.

[jackal2]

All about style, no substance.

In a nutshell, that's been the problem this season. When the going got tough, this team capitulated.

We need to retain the best aspects of this squad, which does have talent, but add some height, strength and aggression to it. In other words, this team needs to grow a pair, and then next season it might be able to compete with the main challengers and not drop stupid points away at places like Eastleigh and Aldershot.

[Robertomac]

In a nutshell, that's been the problem this season. When the going got tough, this team capitulated.

We need to retain the best aspects of this squad, which does have talent, but add some height, strength and aggression to it. In other words, this team needs to grow a pair, and then next season it might be able to compete with the main challengers and not drop stupid points away at places like Eastleigh and Aldershot.

Good post. Spot on.

[crazyfists]

Grimsby showed us how to do it, quick attacks, power, pace, stopped attacks coming through the middle alot of the time, a threat on set pieces. Hope this was a wake up call to Burchnall but doubt it.

[LaxtonLad]

Iv'e been saying it for months now, trying to play the ball out from the back is suicide in this league with these players. No offence to them but they are in non-league for a reason. One error from a player puts the enemy team well into your own half and you're under immediate pressure, if our goalie manages to get hold of the ball again before the inevitable goal or corner kick - what then? Start again by rolling it out again? It's a crap tactic against a prepared team and that's what we saw last night, it made me wonder if our players actually believed this might work. Grimsby players must have been coached into pressuring us by pushing their players into our half when our goalie had the ball, knowing we were under orders to play this, for our level, stupid tactic. And it worked, it stopped us playing - didn't it?

If Burchinall is still with us next season I'm going to miss the first few games and if it's apparent he's sticking with his wannabe Man. City style then I'll miss the next few too. It's like watching the cast of Eastenders acting out Macbeth.

[ncfcog]

We played more direct last night than at any other time this season.

[LaxtonLad]

We played more direct last night than at any other time this season.

No we didn't! Even the Kop were getting edgy, seeing as it wasn't working but we were persisting with it. Grimsby were able to push forward and dominate as we were so slow moving out of our own half, that's not direct football from us but it was from them.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

We played more direct last night than at any other time this season.

I’d disagree. I’d say we tried to play it out the back, when that didn’t work we regularly aimlessly hoofed it forwards. Not direct, just rubbish.

We needed and should have worked on a plan b long ago. But we don’t have the players to play it.

We were crap last night, whatever we played was executed poorly.

Grimsby we’re pretty average, but we were worse.

We simply were not good enough all season long.

[countygump]

I’d disagree. I’d say we tried to play it out the back, when that didn’t work we regularly aimlessly hoofed it forwards. Not direct, just rubbish.

We needed and should have worked on a plan b long ago. But we don’t have the players to play it.

We were crap last night, whatever we played was executed poorly.

Grimsby we’re pretty average, but we were worse.

We simply were not good enough all season long.

This^^^

Everything we do, we do sooo casually. The way we play and the way we approach obtaining promo. We need a massive shift in style, player and manager recruitment. . Burchy ain't the man for that and I'm beginning to think that the Broz ain't the owners to achieve that either. We seem far too happy as a poor Man C clone in the national League.

[legs77]

Where is all this rubbish of "We are too happy in non league" coming from ???

Slater apparently mentioned it what does he mean ? Does he have regular chats with our owners ?

Fact is we werent good enough to go up I doubt our owners are sat around saying yeah cant wait for Maidenhead away next year !

[nw6pie]

This^^^

Everything we do, we do sooo casually. The way we play and the way we approach obtaining promo. We need a massive shift in style, player and manager recruitment. . Burchy ain't the man for that and I'm beginning to think that the Broz ain't the owners to achieve that either. We seem far too happy as a poor Man C clone in the national League.

The key thing missing from our play, it seems from afar, is intensity. When people talk about the Man. City "pass you to death" approach, they overlook two things:

1. Their passing is often done at speed, with the aim of breaking through the lines. Whenever I see City play on TV, a lot of their moving around of the opposition takes place in the attacking half of the pitch. They're always looking to pass forward into midfield or into spaces on the wings.

We seem to think ball retention is the key rather than actually trying to hurt the opposition, resulting in a lot of sterile, "going nowhere" football. We've had the same problem under both Ardley and Burchnall.

2. Man. City's players work so hard to win the ball back as soon as they've lost it, especially in the opposition half. They swarm teams, not giving them time to think. Look at the first leg against Real Madrid, when City should have scored six. We never seem to hunt in packs/win the ball back ASAP when we don't have it.

[upthemaggies]

I doubt our owners are sat around saying yeah cant wait for Maidenhead away next year !


I reckon they'll be happy that their other investment - Viborg FF - look like surviving the relegation 'play off' section of the Danish League.

[countygump]

Where is all this rubbish of "We are too happy in non league" coming from ???

Slater apparently mentioned it what does he mean ? Does he have regular chats with our owners ?

These were pretty much the words they used:

''Charlie and David Jackson mentioned tonight the lack of urgency at Notts to get promoted compared to other teams''.

Difficult not to agree IMHAHO.

[upthemaggies]

These were pretty much the words they used:

''Charlie and David Jackson mentioned tonight the lack of urgency at Notts to get promoted compared to other teams''.

Difficult not to agree IMHAHO.

Charlie brought it up first, possibly pre-match, can't remember now exactly, then Jackson returned to the subject after the game and they all agreed that Notts lacked urgency to get out of the league but Stall pointed out "If the money isn't there" then what can you do? basically. Stall tried to positive about "building blocks" but I'm definitely feeling the frustration from Charlie. If he got an offer to commentate for another club I think he'd take it and I wouldn't blame him, which would be a big loss because I think he his very good.

[Elite_Pie]

Where is all this rubbish of "We are too happy in non league" coming from ???

Slater apparently mentioned it what does he mean ? Does he have regular chats with our owners ?

Fact is we werent good enough to go up I doubt our owners are sat around saying yeah cant wait for Maidenhead away next year !

While obviously grateful to the Reedtz brothers for buying the club, the worry I have had about them since day one is still the same. They are trying to play a computer game with a real club. It's heavily stats and data based, but all those stats and data seem to ignore one crucial thing. What if the other team want it more? We possibly have the most technically gifted squad in the division, but when the going gets tough our mental fragility comes to the fore. When we are good we can look very good, but when it doesn't click we are far too easy to play against. If they persist with their approach of the last 3 seasons we will be stuck here for a long time, because something is definitely missing.

[jonnyt1]

I absolutely stand by the comments I made to start this thread. Tippy Tappy will never get us out of the National League.

What we need is a Manager who knows this league, gets players with more physical presence and plays in the oppositions half, not our own.

I also fear our current owners will never invest enough to get the job done either.

[DoddingtonPie]

I absolutely stand by the comments I made to start this thread. Tippy Tappy will never get us out of the National League.

What we need is a Manager who knows this league, gets players with more physical presence and plays in the oppositions half, not our own.

I also fear our current owners will never invest enough to get the job done either.

What I fear, is the owners insisting the next manager still “their” football philosophy, turning him into another Ardley/Burchnall clone.

[legs77]

These were pretty much the words they used:

''Charlie and David Jackson mentioned tonight the lack of urgency at Notts to get promoted compared to other teams''.

Difficult not to agree IMHAHO.

I guess it depends which clubs they are talking about.

The only two showing real intent as they put it are Wrexham and Stockport.

Its abit like being a West Ham media bloke moaning as they cant compete with Man City.

[legs77]

While obviously grateful to the Reedtz brothers for buying the club, the worry I have had about them since day one is still the same. They are trying to play a computer game with a real club. It's heavily stats and data based, but all those stats and data seem to ignore one crucial thing. What if the other team want it more? We possibly have the most technically gifted squad in the division, but when the going gets tough our mental fragility comes to the fore. When we are good we can look very good, but when it doesn't click we are far too easy to play against. If they persist with their approach of the last 3 seasons we will be stuck here for a long time, because something is definitely missing.

I agree we need more steel in the side you need that whatever league you are in.

[macstop]

It's a pity there is no data on tough tackling midfielders, because in my mind that is all that was the matter with this team,
someone asked why Florist are so good, for me they've got never say die Yates, slasher Colback, and young kick yer legs Garner,
why do people always blame the defense, when they are only as good as the midfield?

[upthemaggies]

I guess it depends which clubs they are talking about.

The only two showing real intent as they put it are Wrexham and Stockport.

Its abit like being a West Ham media bloke moaning as they cant compete with Man City.

They talked about Chesterfield as well and where they would be now had the injury to their key man not derailed their season.
People keep telling us that Solihull spend more than us, Solihull!!!

[legs77]

They talked about Chesterfield as well and where they would be now had the injury to their key man not derailed their season.
People keep telling us that Solihull spend more than us, Solihull!!!

Chesterfield could also be doing a "Hardy" where they need to go up this season.

Solihull do have a rich owner I believe like Harrogate did, no idea what they have spent though.

Man City are proof of a complete no mark club for decades getting a state country backing and can blow away 99% of clubs in transfer market.

[upthemaggies]

Chesterfield could also be doing a "Hardy" where they need to go up this season.

Solihull do have a rich owner I believe like Harrogate did, no idea what they have spent though.

Man City are proof of a complete no mark club for decades getting a state country backing and can blow away 99% of clubs in transfer market.

Always other clubs who attract wealthy owners, we never get them at Notts unfortunately.

The owners haven't done a lot wrong, but they haven't done a lot right either. We're ticking along, but the objective of this game is not to just tick along, especially as low as its' possible to go in the professional game.
This is death by a thousand cuts.

[Oldstripy]

I don't think we should get too carried away with the idea that the owners insist on this type of football to a fault. They are, by nature and profession, analytical people who will look at the evidence and shouldn't be too proud to adjust. I don't think it a matter of ego or rigid ideology for them. Obviously they would like to see us play attractive football that brings good crowds and perhaps they've aimed for perfection in that regard. I can't really knock them for that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're reaching the same conclusions as many of us about the type of player needed to add strength, aggression and character to what is currently a talented but somewhat 'nice' squad.

We're a bit like the Spurs and Arsenal of this league - capable of very good performances against most sides, but found wanting against the big guns and with a tendency to drop silly points elsewhere.

The real question may be whether IB is equally pragmatic and willing to adjust away from his rather idealistic playing style in pursuit of a few more results away from home. When all's said and done, that's what's missing. We aren't a bad team - our home record is fine and we're in the play-offs with a number of winnable fixtures to come. It's a case of taking what's already there and adding the missing ingredients, both tactical and personnel.

Well said

As I see it We need players who can deal with the high press and be able to command our 18 yard box, plus 2 commanding midfielders ether side of Palmer, one or two strikers would be nice. wishful thinking I know we have a couple of months to speculate.