⚽ Match Thread vs. Dover Athletic [NL]

[SwalePie]

21676

Matchday is here again already and, with only one non-matchday since the last one, the Bank Holiday sees Dover Met Office Athletic FC visit the San Sirrel on the 41st anniversary of our famous win at Stamford Bridge to re-enter what is now The Premier League. Something of a contrast in our fortunes you might say. Today's somewhat less illustrious opponents will be playing in the sixth tier next season.

Following Saturday's disappointing showing and result Ian Burchnall and his squad will be hoping to produce a 'statement' win against the already-relegated serial postponers.

21677
Dover chairman Jim 'The Devil's Knitwear' Parmaviolet's
garden, seen earlier

It will be interesting to see today's team and bench selections after some fans expressed surprise that several members of the team had been rested or rotated on Saturday. Will top-scorer Kyle Wootton be fully recovered after his back injury and lead the line from the off?

21678
Notts County Head Coach Ian Burchnall and his assistant
Michael Doyle pictured earlier being a bit cross.

Notts fans will be expecting nothing less than a convincing win and hoping for a quality performance to back it up as we go into the last games of the normal season.

Team news at 2:00pm and commentary is available in all the usual places including here (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/61150003)

COYP!

[Elite_Pie]

I'll be interested in the Dover team selection as much as the Notts team. The odds for a Notts win have shortened massively in the last 24 hours. It was 14/1 for Notts to win 5-0 yesterday, now it's just 8/1. Do Dover have an injury crisis? Have they decided to play the youth team? Has the chairman put himself in goal to show them how it's done? Has he put his life savings on Notts winning by 5 goals or more?

It's all very strange, I've never seen Notts anywhere near as short as this in any competition.

[SaltySeaDog]

Allez les Pies!

[SwalePie]

21680

[Old_pie]

21680

Brindely back (on the bench), Brunt punted into touch, Roberts partially rested.

[Carlton_Pie]

Brindely back (on the bench), Brunt punted into touch, Roberts partially rested.

Very attacking team with 2 wingers at full back

[St Kitts Magpie]

Interesting..Slocombe back in, woots and Sam both in..like it. COYP

[legs77]

Not surprised at the line up IB pretty much said the squad will be used.

Brindley back sooner than I guessed and im thinking Cameron is back next week.

We could touch wood have a full squad available last 2 games.

[SwalePie]

IB on today's team selection...

https://twitter.com/Official_NCFC/status/1521116755841662976?s=20&t=mzLcrNyWVl0FdyXCRyWKrg (https://twitter.com/Official_NCFC/status/1521116755841662976?s=20&t=mzLcrNyWVl0FdyXCRyWKrg)

[the_anticlough]

Good to see Taylor back and given another chance. Also encouraging to see Brindley back sooner than expected.

I don't see why we need all 3 of Arter, Palmer and O'Brien in centre-mid for this game when a crucial play-off place could be decided by goal difference.

Vincent or Roberts starting in place of JOB or Arter would've made more sense.

[OP67]

Good to see Slocombe back in. He may not suit what IB has in his head but he has the experience needed to organise our woeful defenders.

[SwalePie]

Good to see Slocombe back in. He may not suit what IB has in his head but he has the experience needed to organise our woeful defenders.

...and hopefully the good ones too! :)

[OP67]

IB on today's team selection...

https://twitter.com/Official_NCFC/status/1521116755841662976?s=20&t=mzLcrNyWVl0FdyXCRyWKrg (https://twitter.com/Official_NCFC/status/1521116755841662976?s=20&t=mzLcrNyWVl0FdyXCRyWKrg)

Players "rested" It used to be called dropped due to a poor display the previous game in my day.

[Carlton_Pie]

Players "rested" It used to be called dropped due to a poor display the previous game in my day.

Unless they are actually rested.

We have some weird "fans"

[legs77]

Players "rested" It used to be called dropped due to a poor display the previous game in my day.

Yeah but it isnt the case here as ive stated a few times IB already mentioned he was going to do this in midweek.

I totally agree with what he did and he explained himself well imo.

Some fans are saying things like "Well im not bothered as we arent going up" its easy to say that with the safety net of 5 other teams in the play offs provided we make them.

[upthemaggies]

Can we score seven in a league game for the first time since 1960? This will be as good an opportunity as we'll probably ever get.

Edit: Make that 1961, we beat Newport 8-1 that year.

[upthemaggies]

Has the Dover chairman made the trip up?

[upthemaggies]

Solihull 1 Bromley 0

[upthemaggies]

RR

1-0 Notts

[Carlton_Pie]

1-0!

[SaltySeaDog]

Ruben joining Kyle in the 20+ club

[upthemaggies]

League goal scorers
Wootton 18, Rodrigues 18, Roberts 14, Sam 6, Lacey 5, Cameron 4, Vincent 3, Palmer 2, Nemane 2, O'Brien 1,
Mitchell 1, Richardson 1, Francis 1, Own Goal 1

[upthemaggies]

30 years ago this very day we played our last first team game in front of the old County Road stand and an unroofed Kop.

[Carlton_Pie]

Chesterfield losing

[upthemaggies]

Halifax winning.

[upthemaggies]

HT

Charlie and Stall agreeing that the match has been like a training session. Totally one sided.

[Carlton_Pie]

HT

Charlie and Stall agreeing that the match has been like a training session. Totally one sided.

Which is worrying whilst it's only 1-0

[MAD_MAGPIE]

HT

Charlie and Stall agreeing that the match has been like a training session. Totally one sided.

We are completely camped out in the Dover half and at times it’s almost looked like a 7-2-1 formation as they defend the final third.

This has meant that we have had to pass round the box and back round looking for gaps and making runs which we’ve had a couple of chances to extend the lead.

When we’ve lost the ball Dover have tried to launch a counter attack through a fast paced young forward which has in the main been snuffed out as they’ve not really tested Slocombe.

We are comfortable but ideally need a second goal just to put this to bed as anything can happen and if they did score the atmosphere in Meadow Lane could change.

[the_anticlough]

When Cal comes on I hope it's for Arter

[upthemaggies]

Charlie: At this point, the game needs a streaker.

[upthemaggies]

Wrexham take the lead.

[upthemaggies]

Stall: I don't think I've ever seen a game as close to a training session as this.


Crowd starting to get frustrated by the sounds of it.

[Redrag]

This is a serious question.
I've been too occupied with the other side of the Trent to keep tabs on your season but how likely does it seem that you'll get back to League 2 for next season? Do you stand a good chance of getting there and then moving back up the leagues?

[Russ_OTF]

In a word. No.

[upthemaggies]

This is a serious question.
I've been too occupied with the other side of the Trent to keep tabs on your season but how likely does it seem that you'll get back to League 2 for next season? Do you stand a good chance of getting there and then moving back up the leagues?

Probably more chance of us meeting Basford in a league game in the next 25 years than your lot.

[SwalePie]

Disallowed goal for Notts. Grrr.

[the_anticlough]

This is a serious question.
I've been too occupied with the other side of the Trent to keep tabs on your season but how likely does it seem that you'll get back to League 2 for next season? Do you stand a good chance of getting there and then moving back up the leagues?

With the NL play-off format any place lower than 3rd is facing very long odds.

[upthemaggies]

6,523

[SwalePie]

6,523

72 Dover fans

[upthemaggies]

If we miss out on 5th on goal difference.......

[sidders]

With the NL play-off format any place lower than 3rd is facing very long odds.

Does anyone think Judd Trump can wipe the sneer off Ronnie O's mush? What's that you say - there's a key football game at Meadow Lane?

[upthemaggies]

FT

Charlie notes there isn't widespread applause and that Burch disappears straight down the tunnel without doing his usual fist bumps.

[SwalePie]

Boreham Wood equalise against Wrexham

[upthemaggies]

Equaliser for BW against Wrexham.

[Russ_OTF]

Stallard saying it was dull and the equivalent of scraping through an exam with the bare minimum of marks.

[SwalePie]

Cheaterfurlough lose again

[upthemaggies]

Dagenham fail to take advantage of Chesterfield losing.

[the_anticlough]

Failure to get more goals today (plus the Aldershot disaster) means we're in serious danger of being pushed into 6th by Grimsby if you check their last 3 remaining fixtures.

The way IB and the players have managed this crucial run-in stretch is massively disappointing so far

[DomdomPie]

Sounds like we could have easily conceded in injury time. I’m relieved… but not impressed.

[legs77]

Most important thing is we won.

Chesterfield lost and Daggers drew we need one point to confirm play off place.

Would be nice to have a 3-0 win but we didnt take the chances and lucky for us Dover are poor.

[upthemaggies]

David Jackson: Let's be honest, that was dire wasn't it?

Stall: Yes.

[BCnotts18]

Yet again we show why promotion is nothing but a pipe dream this season. I personally cannot wait for this season to finish so we can start again fresh in August, hopefully with a new manager and some genuinely dedicated players.

[upthemaggies]

Burch talking about the positives and how difficult it is under pressure of the situation we're in. Doesn't understand why the crowd were booing after 30 mins, talks about other teams faltering. "I wasn't stressed... I don't understand at all".

[tommopie8]

So we've come away from a home game against Dover and an away game at a side that had won three games there all season and scored on average less than once a game with a negative goal difference.

There's a few videos on YouTube that show our performance analyst and Birchnall and how they approach half-time with a few focused clips and a training session conducted by IB. Wasn't particularly inspiring and not sure what use it is sending Woots videos of Calvert-Lewin's movement. He should get a few clips of Klopp and send them to IB.

[crazyfists]

We won so that's good but Stalls assessment doesn't bode well for the big games. Just feel we're going through the motions.

[legs77]

Burch talking about the positives and how difficult it is under pressure of the situation we're in. Doesn't understand why the crowd were booing after 30 mins, talks about other teams faltering. "I wasn't stressed... I don't understand at all".

He isnt wrong though is he ?

I mean Chessie Wrexham Stocky all had to score late at home to beat them they arent good we know that we just had to win.

[countygump]

He isnt wrong though is he ?

I mean Chessie Wrexham Stocky all had to score late at home to beat them they arent good we know that we just had to win.

Tripe served, atmos flat but in the end, jobdun.

[upthemaggies]

You can't really judge that result until the end of the season. If Notts end up playing away in the QF because the GD is one less than Grimsby - and end up losing that QF, then it's an issue*. Hopefully it's just the points that matter.

*Yes GD is built up over the course of a whole season, but you've got to say there was an opportunity there today to improve it by more than one. Grimsby got +8 from their two games with Dover.

[hissingdwarf]

I think IB must have watched a different game to me. I thought we were terrible.
Yes, we won. Yes, its 3 points, but that was the most pedestrian performance I’ve seen in many a game.

How he can say he doesn’t understand why the crowd were booing and giving him verbals, I’ll never know.
Boring sideways passes all game.
JoB seemed to care, but ran out of steam.
Not many others did.
Palmer and the back pair seemed to have an issue with feeding Richardson, because he was our main outlet and they always turned inside again to sideways pass.

Every person around me was moaning.
No entertainment at all for a Bank Holiday afternoon.

Shows why this style and team are hanging onto the playoff dream by the skin of the teeth.

And finally Arter can feck off back over the river as well. Waste of a shirt today. Vincent must have done something dodgy for Arter and Francis to be ahead of him for a shirt.

[Elite_Pie]

Three points, a clean sheet, but as wins go they don't come any more underwhelming than that.

Best moment was the goal, second best was seeing Arter taken off.

[Stan Marshall]

Too pedestrian for my liking, largely orchestrated by Arter

[forwardmagpie]

Three points, a clean sheet, but as wins go they don't come any more underwhelming than that.

Best moment was the goal, second best was seeing Arter taken off.

Agreed on both moments Elite - do Arter and Palmer only pass to each other - that was a terrible game that we were lucky not to concede late on but I suppose a win is a win.

[BigFatPie]

Playing a load of rubbish at the end of the season was always going to go one of two ways. We’d either comprehensively win most or all of them and go into the playoffs on a surge of confidence, or we’d stumble through them, maybe lose one or two and go into the playoffs undercooked. Obviously we’ve chosen the latter.

Arter can get back in whatever bin Forest found him, like Brunt just exactly the type of signing we didn’t need.

[jackal2]

I think IB must have watched a different game to me. I thought we were terrible.
Yes, we won. Yes, its 3 points, but that was the most pedestrian performance I’ve seen in many a game.

I thought we were terrible too. Passionless, pedestrian, overplaying dross against extremely limited opposition.

I'm beginning to worry that IB is on a different planet, never mind watching a different game. Forget Keith Curle, there were shades of Jamie Fullarton in that post-match interview. In terms of passion, drive and standards, the tone needs to be set by the manager, and if IB thought that performance was acceptable and doesn't understand the frustration of the crowd, he's destined to find himself in hot water very quickly.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

IB's post match interview seemed to be a man under pressure to me. I don't know why, but that's how it seemed to me

[countygump]

https://youtu.be/J-AkxEaCd90

[durhampie]

Agreed on both moments Elite - do Arter and Palmer only pass to each other - that was a terrible game that we were lucky not to concede late on but I suppose a win is a win.

More enjoyment watching paint dry. The sooner IB goes and takes this boring shyte with him the better..

[BigFatPie]

IB's post match interview seemed to be a man under pressure to me. I don't know why, but that's how it seemed to me

He’s been like that for a few weeks.

[countygump]

IB's post match interview seemed to be a man under pressure to me. I don't know why, but that's how it seemed to me

One thing you could normally say about Burchy is that his P/M's were accurate and honest. That's gone out the window given his last 2.

[upthemaggies]

IB's post match interview seemed to be a man under pressure to me. I don't know why, but that's how it seemed to me

He sounded very flat at the start of the interview for sure, brightened up towards the end but certainly doesn't give the impression that he's happy with life at the moment and, moreover, is resigned to it rather than showing any signs of determination to get some momentum and belief going. One big "so what" shrug basically. If he stays on and we don't come out of the traps among the front runners early next season, it's not going to be pretty.

Maidstone now have a very big say in our fate. Unbeaten in six, their final two games are away to Grimsby and then home to Notts.

[TSANHO]

The screw starts to turn on IB. Bit crazy really, as three points is three points, but I try think the majority of fans can see where this is all going to end.

I understand a low block is hard to break down but our refusal to play an early ball even just 5% of the time, if even just to mix it up a little bit, is depressing and frustrating. How many times will JOB have to make a run in behind the defence before someone finally plays him in? It was good to see JOB again actually and was rightly made MOTM.

When IB first arrived last year he eventually got us playing with a good tempo and a high press, and it was exciting, no idea why he moved away from this. Does anyone have any confidence IB can oversee a successful playoff campaign? When Dover started to become more interested in scoring they caused us problems. Any team in the playoffs will cause us massive problems.

I think these players are capable. I don’t think IB is.

[Elite_Pie]

I think IB must have watched a different game to me. I thought we were terrible.
Yes, we won. Yes, its 3 points, but that was the most pedestrian performance I’ve seen in many a game.

How he can say he doesn’t understand why the crowd were booing and giving him verbals, I’ll never know.
Boring sideways passes all game.
JoB seemed to care, but ran out of steam.
Not many others did.
Palmer and the back pair seemed to have an issue with feeding Richardson, because he was our main outlet and they always turned inside again to sideways pass.

Every person around me was moaning.
No entertainment at all for a Bank Holiday afternoon.

Shows why this style and team are hanging onto the playoff dream by the skin of the teeth.

And finally Arter can feck off back over the river as well. Waste of a shirt today. Vincent must have done something dodgy for Arter and Francis to be ahead of him for a shirt.

Agree with all of that, and specifically three of your points:

1. Burchnall's interview was a strange one. Nearly all season he's talked sense, but that was the interview of a bewildered man who doesn't know what to do to address the problems. It was little more than a stream of cliched excuses.

2. Jim O'Brien was the only one who looked bothered and tried to make things happen. I lost count of the number of runs into space he made in the first half, but every single one of them was ignored in favour of the safe sideways or backwards pass.

3. Harry Arter was beyond awful. He saw plenty of the ball, and his pass completion stats will look great. The problem is that all of them we safe, tippy tappy, 'to me to you' passes. Whenever he tried anything incisive it went straight to a red shirt or out of play. Is there something in his loan deal that doesn't allow him to tackle? He clearly thinks he's to good for this level, he just didn't seem bothered.

[durhampie]

https://youtu.be/J-AkxEaCd90

And no doubt Jim will be dropped for the next game...

[jackal2]

IB's post match interview seemed to be a man under pressure to me. I don't know why, but that's how it seemed to me

IB could relieve some pressure by saying yes we got the 3 points but I know that performance wasn't anywhere near good enough. He could say we need more intensity, speed and desire in all aspects of our play. Her could say we overplayed too often and we need to show more purpose and courage to carry the ball, get it into the box quicker and take our chances.

Instead, he's basically said we were in total control, fans don't realise how difficult it all is and he's totally relaxed about the performance. If he is under pressure, comments like that aren't going to help at all.

[kill_the_drum]

When you’re playing against a team that are going to camp 2 rows of 4 on the edge of the box, you have to be patient. It’s frustrating and very reminiscent of when England play a minnow.
Reading some fans are saying it’s the most boring game they’ve ever been to. I would suggest they haven’t been to many games then.
I’m disappointed we didn’t convert more chances and I think we’ve got to learn to get the ball in the box quicker when we’re playing against ‘anti-football’ teams. But to boo the team when we’ve won the game is pretty pathetic, in my opinion.

[BCnotts18]

He sounded very flat at the start of the interview for sure, brightened up towards the end but certainly doesn't give the impression that he's happy with life at the moment and, moreover, is resigned to it rather than showing any signs of determination to get some momentum and belief going. One big "so what" shrug basically. If he stays on and we don't come out of the traps among the front runners early next season, it's not going to be pretty.

Maidstone now have a very big say in our fate. Unbeaten in six, their final two games are away to Grimsby and then home to Notts.

You mean Maidenhead don't you? I'd hate to book a train ticket to Maidstone on the final day and realise Notts are playing on the other side of London.

Although we'll almost certainly be playing both in the league next season.

[countygump]

https://youtu.be/Y3cRLiW2BEQ

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Stallard saying it was dull and the equivalent of scraping through an exam with the bare minimum of marks.

Once again Mark Stallard is completely spot on. There was simply no form urgency to go and put the game to bed and ask questions of the keeper and score more goals. The way we play the build up is measured, controlled and relies on passing around waiting patiently for the opposition to make a mistake or a gap to open up. We completely dominated possession and it would not surprise me if it was up around 75%.

In fairness Dover were one of the most defensive sides I’ve seen at Meadow Lane as they had six or seven in a back line at times with two or three directly in front of them and one forward. They shut us out and closed down and intercepted passes and mistakes we made in the final third. They’d come for a draw and gave us a little scare near the end.

Jim O Brien showed what we’ve been missing on the pitch in terms of mental qualities which is someone with bite and passion but also fighting to make something happen. He played a crucial defence splitting pass for the first goal, could have nearly scored himself once in the first half and again in the second. He was a nuisance throughout. Fully deserved his man of the match award.

We won this game so it’s job done but there was nothing convincing about it when we did the bare minimum. Plus it did nothing to inspire that we will be successful in the playoffs. It was all a bit meh!

[jackal2]

Jim O Brien showed what we’ve been missing on the pitch in terms of mental qualities which is someone with bite and passion but also fighting to make something happen. He played a crucial defence splitting pass for the first goal, could have nearly scored himself once in the first half and again in the second. He was a nuisance throughout. Fully deserved his man of the match award.

Totally agree. Even when JOB makes mistakes or has bad games, it's because he's taking responsibility and risks to make things happen, rather than protecting his stats playing meaningless five-yard sideways and backwards passes.

[Chicken Balti Pie]

The screw starts to turn on IB. Bit crazy really, as three points is three points, but I try think the majority of fans can see where this is all going to end.

I understand a low block is hard to break down but our refusal to play an early ball even just 5% of the time, if even just to mix it up a little bit, is depressing and frustrating. How many times will JOB have to make a run in behind the defence before someone finally plays him in? It was good to see JOB again actually and was rightly made MOTM.

When IB first arrived last year he eventually got us playing with a good tempo and a high press, and it was exciting, no idea why he moved away from this. Does anyone have any confidence IB can oversee a successful playoff campaign? When Dover started to become more interested in scoring they caused us problems. Any team in the playoffs will cause us massive problems.

I think these players are capable. I don’t think IB is.

Think the problem is actually chance conversion. He claimed we had 20 shots, we scored 1, so we converted 5% of shots. He claimed we had lots of "one on ones", we converted none. It's a complete failure to sign a striker that can convert these chances. If he was right and Kairo Mitchell was our number one target in the summer, that's appalling

[nw6pie]

https://youtu.be/Y3cRLiW2BEQ

Nice to see JOB back. Sounds like he did enough to retain his place for Saturday.

Can anyone explain the Arter situation to me? Seemed to do well when he first came in, despite not being fit, but is contributing less and less the fitter he presumably gets. Has he just lost the passion for the game?

[optipez]

Got the win against a team playing 9-0-1 at times so breaking them down was tricky.
I think Burch is feeling the pressure and its made him overly defensive, we don't need a back four and two holding midfielders. We could do with a midfielder or two who can run beyond the lone striker, it would make us a bit more dynamic perhaps, Jimbo understood it and made the runs.
I just want us to get the home leg now, Grimsby away is an abso!ute graveyard of a fixture for us, can't remember us ever winning there.

[legs77]

It seems to me fans want IB out that is the jist of what im reading and hearing.

Today obviously isnt great but at the end of the season the most important thing is winning the game the closer you get the harder it can be as Stockport are showing.

If we do get rid of IB and a new manager has us flying he is likely to look at our record of firing managers and go at first chance he gets and who can blame him.

Some of our fans laugh at Forest fans for being arrogant/entitled I think we have shown we have fans who are exactly the same in thinking we are above this league.

[jackal2]

Nice to see JOB back. Sounds like he did enough to retain his place for Saturday.

Can anyone explain the Arter situation to me? Seemed to do well when he first came in, despite not being fit, but is contributing less and less the fitter he presumably gets. Has he just lost the passion for the game?

I was a bit disappointed with the response from the crowd when Arter was substituted, because I didn't think he was any worse (or better) than most of our other players, but maybe that's because our expectations of him are higher, being a recent Premier League player. At the moment he reminds me of Ian Hamilton in that he's not necessarily doing anything glaringly wrong, but he's not really doing anything. I think fans expect a player of his previous calibre to run the game at this level and attempt more killer passes.

[kill_the_drum]

Nice to see JOB back. Sounds like he did enough to retain his place for Saturday.

Can anyone explain the Arter situation to me? Seemed to do well when he first came in, despite not being fit, but is contributing less and less the fitter he presumably gets. Has he just lost the passion for the game?

I can’t get my head around Arter.
After the first couple of games I couldn’t wait to see what he’d bring once fully fit.
He seems to look more off the pace with every game.

[legs77]

Got the win against a team playing 9-0-1 at times so breaking them down was tricky.
I think Burch is feeling the pressure and its made him overly defensive, we don't need a back four and two holding midfielders. We could do with a midfielder or two who can run beyond the lone striker, it would make us a bit more dynamic perhaps, Jimbo understood it and made the runs.
I just want us to get the home leg now, Grimsby away is an abso!ute graveyard of a fixture for us, can't remember us ever winning there.

We beat them 1-0 this season !

[St Kitts Magpie]

And no doubt Jim will be dropped for the next game...

Without a doubt..

[kill_the_drum]

We beat them 1-0 this season !

😂
But apart from that!

[optipez]

We beat them 1-0 this season !

True, probably our best result of the season and I forgot..duh. I've been three times and we've been tonked each one and got stabbed with an umbrella back in the 80s for my troubles too in an FA cup replay. No happy memories of Cleethorpes. Best thing is the great chip shop followed by the road out.

[legs77]

True, probably our best result of the season and I forgot..duh. I've been three times and we've been tonked each one and got stabbed with an umbrella back in the 80s for my troubles too in an FA cup replay. No happy memories of Cleethorpes. Best thing is the great chip shop followed by the road out.

True ive been a few times and we lost both games.

Obviously 5th is what we ideally need im not sure on stats has anyone ever got promoted finishing 6/7th ?

[Elite_Pie]

When you’re playing against a team that are going to camp 2 rows of 4 on the edge of the box, you have to be patient. It’s frustrating and very reminiscent of when England play a minnow.

Yes, but England's patience against the minnows usually ends up with a 6-0 win.

We seemed happy to take 1-0.

[Iremongersrighthand]

I can’t get my head around Arter.
After the first couple of games I couldn’t wait to see what he’d bring once fully fit.
He seems to look more off the pace with every game.

I agree. I think that when he first came here Forest were trying to make the playoffs, now they are pushing for automatic, he might have one eye on being in a premier League squad and that might increase his chances of a bigger move in the summer, getting injured playing for Notts might mess that up for him.

[maddogslater]

and got stabbed with an umbrella back in the 80s for my troubles.

Cool 😎

[Chicken Balti Pie]

Got the win against a team playing 9-0-1 at times so breaking them down was tricky.
I think Burch is feeling the pressure and its made him overly defensive, we don't need a back four and two holding midfielders. We could do with a midfielder or two who can run beyond the lone striker, it would make us a bit more dynamic perhaps, Jimbo understood it and made the runs.
I just want us to get the home leg now, Grimsby away is an abso!ute graveyard of a fixture for us, can't remember us ever winning there.

We still apparently had 20 shots according to IB. If we had 20 shots and only converted 1, that is awful.

[laddo]

Yes, but England's patience against the minnows usually ends up with a 6-0 win.

We seemed happy to take 1-0.

When England are patient and win 6-0 folks still moan it was boring, too much passing and think Southgate needs to go.

I listened to the IB interview and I wouldn't say he sounded desperate but understandably sounded like a manager who hasn't got his side firing on all cylinders or even close at the business end of the season and is frustrated.

As for the stats did we really have 20 off shots at goal and a 2 or 3 one on ones that we missed? Or was he exaggerating? If the former than that's the on the players? If the latter that's the manager under pressure and trying to talk the game up.

[kill_the_drum]

Yes, but England's patience against the minnows usually ends up with a 6-0 win.

We seemed happy to take 1-0.

I can’t disagree 1-0 isn’t great but I would say from the players body language at FT, they were far from happy.
We created the chances. Sam alone should have had a hat trick and more often than not, Cal smashes his 1v1 in the far corner.
I’m not happy with today but we won the game, job done.

[jacobncfc]

When England are patient and win 6-0 folks still moan it was boring, too much passing and think Southgate needs to go.

I listened to the IB interview and I wouldn't say he sounded desperate but understandably sounded like a manager who hasn't got his side firing on all cylinders or even close at the business end of the season and is frustrated.

As for the stats did we really have 20 off shots at goal and a 2 or 3 one on ones that we missed? Or was he exaggerating? If the former than that's the on the players? If the latter that's the manager under pressure and trying to talk the game up.

No. It’s not exaggerating. We battered them, but it was an extremely dull spectacle mostly because they only had one player our side of the half-way line for the first 80 minutes of the game.

Today in itself wasn’t really a problem. Not very exciting, but a comfortable win. But the problem is that we’re into the end of the season with a total lack of ‘big games’ to get everyone excited, a home quarter-final play-off as the only thing it feels like we’re playing for and a team that has earned themselves a reputation for lacking energy, fight and intensity. Dunno why it was today that came to a bit of a head, but that’s why, not that we ‘only beat Dover 1-0’.

[matt_magpie]

Tbf in recent weeks Stockport, Wrexham, Halifax and Chesterfield have only beaten them by one goal at home, so their not complete walkovers. We weren’t great but certainly don’t think we were poor, they literally had 11 camped in their third for a lot of the game.

[Robertomac]

I can’t get my head around Arter.
After the first couple of games I couldn’t wait to see what he’d bring once fully fit.
He seems to look more off the pace with every game.

It's the Notts curse. We can turn any good player into a load of rubbish with ease. Seen it loads of times.

[Elite_Pie]

Can anyone explain the Arter situation to me?

I'll have go. He came here because it was local and he wanted to play again. It seemed a massive coup for us to get a player of his calibre. At first he seemed ok, but the more minutes he's had, the less effect he's had. I was really surprised when he got MOM a few games ago, because he hadn't contributed a lot. Today should have been just the game to show his skills, he should have been the one with the brain and passing skills to supply the forward runs of JOB. Instead, his passes were either simple ones or bad ones. He might just come alive in a playoff final if the cameras were on him, but at the moment he's just going through the motions.

In short, I think he asked to come here to put himself in the shop window. On the evidence of today, even Poundland would say no.

[SwalePie]

No. It’s not exaggerating. We battered them, but it was an extremely dull spectacle mostly because they only had one player our side of the half-way line for the first 80 minutes of the game.

Today in itself wasn’t really a problem. Not very exciting, but a comfortable win. But the problem is that we’re into the end of the season with a total lack of ‘big games’ to get everyone excited, a home quarter-final play-off as the only thing it feels like we’re playing for and a team that has earned themselves a reputation for lacking energy, fight and intensity. Dunno why it was today that came to a bit of a head, but that’s why, not that we ‘only beat Dover 1-0’.

I think you've posted one in the Handbags thread that was meant for this thread Jacob...

[Elite_Pie]

When England are patient and win 6-0 folks still moan it was boring, too much passing and think Southgate needs to go.

"Folks still moan"? I'm sure some of them do, but but when you consider England's support runs into millions rather than our few thousand, is it surprising you can cherry pick a fair few negative comments if you are that way inclined?

I didn't hear any booing today, but I heard a lot of moaning about how we played from nearly all the regulars around me, even from some who don't usually moan. On chances created we should have won by more, my worry is that we seemed happy with 1-0. Under normal circumstances that might be understandable, but when it's quite possible that goal difference could mean a home or away playoff quarter final, I find our lack of urgency a bit bewildering.

[laddo]

You don't have to cherry pick at all, just visit NCM when England are playing XD#viva#cauldron

Thanks Jacob so no exaggeration, then that's on the players. If any coach or management team regardless of the opposition control the game, have 20+ shots and multiple one on ones they should expect the usual 3+ goals from it.

Charlie raised your point about lack of big games in the final 5/6 games and I agree with your concerns we seem to be not impressing and coasting in 3rd gear into the playoffs against mediocre at best teams. Far from ideal but not sure what can be done about it.

Finally worrying to read the comments about After because at Aldershot he came alongside Woots to turn around a turgid second half performance and 2-1 defiect and didn't do anything right and was out worst player out of a sorry bunch. I was very surprised.

To end on some positives and least Ruben bagged yet another goal and the attendance was impressive once again which people weren't expecting.

[OchPie]

Maybe the only game I've seen this season where, even at the end, I didn't feel like conceding was only a blink away at times.

I do think IB's interview was pretty good compared to the last game. (JOBs was good too, and interesting to hear him say IB asked the team to put more crosses in second half...)

We chased the 50/50s and loose balls. We did pepper their goal and were desperately unlucky a few times. I do think though we need to find a way to try to force mistakes as well as score "clean" goals. They had bodies behind the ball throughout and threw limbs at blocking clinical passes / shots - but high balls in caused them all kinds of problems. We tried that a bit more second half, but it felt like the good balls found few people in the box and vice versa. Then again, it felt from the start that they were only going to be a threat on the break and in general our defence was nicely solid.

JOB was really good. Arter seemed to really struggle to predict what Taylor was going to do, but I thought he was unlucky as much as he was poor with some of his forward passes. I still wished IB had taken him off earlier. On the other hand, he seemed to be doing exactly what IB wanted. (Also, is it me or has IB been getting later and later in the match with his substitutions? I seem to remember earlier on he would semi-regularly make changes before the first 45 were out.)

I agree that there was a lack of urgency overall, but also had their goalkeeper not been in top form I reckon we'd have won that by 3 or 4. Maybe more. I was frustrated we only got one, that we didn't turn things up later in the second half, and indeed that the intensity dropped off at about 75 (again...) but I still enjoyed the match, despite it all.

[Elite_Pie]

Thanks Jacob so no exaggeration, then that's on the players. If any coach or management team regardless of the opposition control the game, have 20+ shots and multiple one on ones they should expect the usual 3+ goals from it.

Pretty much my point about the England thing - find a single comment you like and absolve the management team from any blame for today!

Even though you didn't see it.

[Rainbowpie]

I came away from todays game disappointed. Not with the result but how we went about the game. We should have been sending out a message to all the teams in the play off, instead we approached the game like a training session. It was so boring to watch. I know Dover had 10 men behind the ball all game but we should be breaking these teams down easily. We can play some great stuff without actually getting anywhere. The frustrating part is that players are making some good runs (JOB) ( RICHARDSON & SAM) but being ignored for an easy sideward pass.
We miss Cameron's passion and drive massively. Running into space and committing the opposition.
We look extremely vulnerable on the break but we have all season tbf.
Can't see us getting far in the play offs especially if we are away from home because we are simply terrible away
A side note, what the hell is going on with the drummers in the kop? No timing or rythmn it is very annoying. Feel like ramming those sticks up his arse

[JoePass]

We won, that’s all that matters.

[JonahBabb14]

You can't really judge that result until the end of the season. If Notts end up playing away in the QF because the GD is one less than Grimsby - and end up losing that QF, then it's an issue*. Hopefully it's just the points that matter.

*Yes GD is built up over the course of a whole season, but you've got to say there was an opportunity there today to improve it by more than one. Grimsby got +8 from their two games with Dover.

Just imagine how Grimsby are feeling. 4 points against Barnet with a gd of +1.

Football doesn't work the way we want it to all of the time.

Lets get behind the boys and the gaffer. Win the last two, we're 5th at worst and we have a home eliminator against a team that won't play a 640 formation against us.

COYP

[Magpies1959]

While agreeing that today's game was incredibly frustrating, and lacked intensity on our part, I do think with lady luck on our side we could easily have won by seven or eight.
Even if we had scored three or four today, I think we will still have to win our last two games to cement a home quarter final tie. As I have said before, our two games against Halifax will more than likely be our undoing, not Torquay
,Aldershot or the likes.
I know these are if's, and I am sure other teams have had setbacks, but to lose Patterson the way we did, coupled with Brindley, and more importantly Cameron, has really hurt us. If we had had these three available for the final third of the season, I am sure we would have made the top three.
They are key to the way Burchnall wants his teams to play football. With the best will in the world, Jaros/Slocombe, Rawlinson, Graham and Lacey cannot replicate that style.
One final point, I am struggling to see what Arter brings to our game. He seems to lack any responsibility, prefering to play a simple five yard square past to Palmer, rather than look for a forward option.

[uysapie]

Decided to give this one a miss!

[jacobncfc]

I don’t get the Arter criticism btw. He’s doing the same job Palmer was doing before he arrived, theoretically ‘freeing up’ Palmer to play higher up the pitch. I’m not sure that’s MP’s best role, though, and I think there’s probably a fair argument that the two of them are pretty similar to be playing together.

[Elite_Pie]

I don’t get the Arter criticism btw. He’s doing the same job Palmer was doing before he arrived.

Positionally maybe, but I disagree. Palmer always puts effort in, while Arter just went through the motions today. It's very rare I don't applaud a subbed Notts player even if they've had a poor game, but Arter was an exception.

On that note, it's strange to see an opposition player applauded off the pitch unless he's an ex-player, but the spontaneous applause their number 33 Gyasi received shows what Notts fans are about. He was their one forward player who faced three opponents and got no service at all, but he ran his heart out all game. The one thing we demand is effort, and it was something Arter lacked.

[jackal2]

Positionally maybe, but I disagree. Palmer always puts effort in, while Arter just went through the motions today. It's very rare I don't applaud a subbed Notts player even if they've had a poor game, but Arter was an exception.

Not applauding is fine if you don't think the performance merits it, and today I'd say you were right. However, I didn't like some of the ironic cheers when he was subbed. That won't do anything to boost his confidence or enthusiasm, whatever is missing.

On face value, Harry Arter could just have stayed at Forest collecting his money. The fact that he approached us about wanting to get games suggests his problem isn't lack of interest or motivation. I was reading this article which may or may not give a slight pointer to what's wrong: https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2022/01/05/forgotten-nottingham-forest-man-harry-arter-returns-to-the-city-ground/

It looks like he had some injury problems at Charlton and seems to have suffered a major loss of confidence, whether that's primarily a mental or a physical thing or both. There's no doubt however that Arter two or three years ago was a fine player at a much higher level than this, so maybe we've got to persevere and hope that the extra edge of the play-offs brings him closer to his old form. The guy shouldn't be past it at 32, indeed only 50/60% of his best should be worthwhile having at this level.

The best thing is for the supporters to stay or get behind him and see if we can bring the 'real' HA back to life, which would be beneficial for our future prospects and his.

[the_anticlough]

The best thing is for the supporters to stay or get behind him and see if we can bring the 'real' HA back to life, which would be beneficial for our future prospects and his.

is it a time for 'ifs' or player restoration projects?
Palmer's midfield partner has been one of our biggest problems, does HA solve it or not? Can we do better based on what he's shown so far? Can we trust him in the play-offs? (his performance level)

Palmer should be a/the holding midfield. The only reason to play him further forward is because we don't have anyone else.
It's not a massive problem having someone 'similar to' Palmer (when we have attacking full-backs and Ruben) as long as that player is good enough.

[i961pie]

Positionally maybe, but I disagree. Palmer always puts effort in, while Arter just went through the motions today. It's very rare I don't applaud a subbed Notts player even if they've had a poor game, but Arter was an exception.

On that note, it's strange to see an opposition player applauded off the pitch unless he's an ex-player, but the spontaneous applause their number 33 Gyasi received shows what Notts fans are about. He was their one forward player who faced three opponents and got no service at all, but he ran his heart out all game. The one thing we demand is effort, and it was something Arter lacked.

He did run his socks off but the two decent break aways they had he tried to dribble past two defenders and wasn't aware a couple of players had run 50 or so yards and were in much better positions.
They weren't happy with him.

[kill_the_drum]

Arter hasn’t been poor since joining, just in his last two games.
Prior to that he looked a cut above.

[upthemaggies]

You mean Maidenhead don't you? I'd hate to book a train ticket to Maidstone on the final day and realise Notts are playing on the other side of London.

Although we'll almost certainly be playing both in the league next season.

I wrote Wealdstone initially - I'm constantly mixing them up with Maidenhead - then got to Maidstone instead, With the latter promoted yesterday I'm going to be one very confused person next season with those three so interchangeable in my head - MAID-enhead MAID-STONE weald-STONE. I confuse Boreham Wood with Bromley a lot too, with those two having the same colours and both playing in the capital area.

Non-league brain damage.

[upthemaggies]

Just imagine how Grimsby are feeling. 4 points against Barnet with a gd of +1.

Football doesn't work the way we want it to all of the time.

Lets get behind the boys and the gaffer. Win the last two, we're 5th at worst and we have a home eliminator against a team that won't play a 640 formation against us.

COYP

Barnet are not the whipping boys of the division though are they.
This was our problem in 2019/20, dropping points against the sides down the bottom. We've dropped 8 this season against the bottom five whilst Stockport and Wrexham have 100% records against them home and away, Halifax dropped 3. We'd be 3rd now with those extra 8 points.
Yes we beat Dover yesterday but the GD may yet be another point dropped, so to speak, if Grimsby were to do enough to overtake us GD wise

But yes, you want a positive atmosphere around the place going into the play offs. Stall thought yesterday that will happen regardless of the run-in, once it comes to it, and that everything that's gone before it will be forgotten. Notts do need to be at home in the QF though.

[laddo]

Pretty much my point about the England thing - find a single comment you like and absolve the management team from any blame for today!

Even though you didn't see it.


You are correct I didn't see it that is why I asked anyone who did. The question and question mark was the big clue ;)

I wasn't absolving the management team of any blame for the narrow victory. In fact I was questioning whether he was giving an accurate description with his post match comments. If you are a manager and you select a team, give them tactics to adopt and a style of play and that results in controlling the game, lots of shots at goals and many missed one on ones then yes the blame for only scoring once is down to the players who didn't score with only the GK to beat IMO.

I wish we had created lots of good chances at Aldershot, I saw it.

[JonahBabb14]

Barnet are not the whipping boys of the division though are they.
This was our problem in 2019/20, dropping points against the sides down the bottom. We've dropped 8 this season against the bottom five whilst Stockport and Wrexham have 100% records against them home and away, Halifax dropped 3. We'd be 3rd now with those extra 8 points.
Yes we beat Dover yesterday but the GD may yet be another point dropped, so to speak, if Grimsby were to do enough to overtake us GD wise

But yes, you want a positive atmosphere around the place going into the play offs. Stall thought yesterday that will happen regardless of the run-in, once it comes to it, and that everything that's gone before it will be forgotten. Notts do need to be at home in the QF though.

My point with comparing it to the Barnet games is that no team goes out every week and wins 5-0 every game. To do that, however poor the opposition is, you need things to go your way

Sometimes things go for you, and sometimes they don't. Yesterday we were a lucky deflection or a bit better finishing away from scoring a second, third, fourth etc.

It is the time of the season where teams do get nervous and Grimsby only getting a point at Barnet shows that. I would argue the quality of a team is defined by how well they do against the more difficult sides than against teams that they "should" be putting away by 4 or 5 because those games are not 'proper' football matches. Dover did not even attempt to attack yesterday so there was literally no space for 80 minutes, yet we still managed to force over 20 shots and I would imagine Shots on target were in double figures too.

Our record against the top 7 stands up to scrutiny this season.

[TheBlackHorse]

.. back on to earlier comments re Jim O'brien ... although he seems to have some fierce critics he really is the missing link in IB's play safe strategy. He is prepared to gamble which does not always accord with the safety merchants in the team; so they either miss or ignore his (and Richardson, for that matter) speculative runs, to the detriment of team performance. One of the reasons, I think, their no. '33' got such a good round of applause was because he represented a never give up attitude which was missing from so much of the Notts team; JO'b excepted. If you take the trouble to study exceptional success in sport, the best performances are often by those who make the most mistakes. JO'b may not be the finest exponent of the game but I'm absolutely sure thar NC are a better team with him on the pitch.
We won playing poorly; still a recipe for success. COYP ...

[Elite_Pie]

I wasn't absolving the management team of any blame for the narrow victory. In fact I was questioning whether he was giving an accurate description with his post match comments. If you are a manager and you select a team, give them tactics to adopt and a style of play and that results in controlling the game, lots of shots at goals and many missed one on ones then yes the blame for only scoring once is down to the players who didn't score with only the GK to beat IMO.

We should have won by more than one, but the main thing that frustrated the crowd was the apathetic way we played. It was as if the players risked a fine if they lost possession, because nearly all the passes were safe ones. It gave Dover so much time to organise and mark at the back that when a cross did eventually come in they got there first. Don't be fooled by the '20 shots' thing, their keeper make one really good save but the majority were either straight at him or wide. Funny how you don't seem to be listening to your "mate" Stall on this one, because he summed up pretty well what hard work it was watching us piss around against the worst team in the division by some distance.

[OchPie]

Part of me thinks that because we were generally so quick to recover possession, it made it feel like we were never doing anything to lose it... but there were many, many through balls (including from Arter) cut out, deflected or booted away by one of the 7-9 players Dover generally had behind the ball.

I don't get the criticism of Arter for not trying to pass forward - he did, repeatedly. I do think he tried to play thoughtfully and incisiviely all the time, when at times a quick pass forward would have been an interesting (even if not necessarily better) option.

As I said above, we seem to assume the opposing team will play perfectly and so we need to win through forced errors (to borrow the tennis phrase) rather than chance our arm on an unforced error from time to time. (Although I did like to see Woots harrying their goalie during his kick-outs for the first 30!)

[Elite_Pie]

I don't get the criticism of Arter for not trying to pass forward - he did, repeatedly.

But repeatedly to a Dover player, not a Notts player! Even the ususally fawning Red Rag gave him a poor mark:

Harry Arter 5 : Not his best game in a Notts shirt as too many passes went astray or slowed play down. Subbed in the second half.

[laddo]

We should have won by more than one, but the main thing that frustrated the crowd was the apathetic way we played. It was as if the players risked a fine if they lost possession, because nearly all the passes were safe ones. It gave Dover so much time to organise and mark at the back that when a cross did eventually come in they got there first. Don't be fooled by the '20 shots' thing, their keeper make one really good save but the majority were either straight at him or wide. Funny how you don't seem to be listening to your "mate" Stall on this one, because he summed up pretty well what hard work it was watching us piss around against the worst team in the division by some distance.

That's great and very similar to what I've heard and read but of that doesn't really apply to our former debate.

I listened to my mate Stall after the game (glad to hear he gave another honest assessment), as well as spoke to friend and family who were at the game later that evening. It's rare I listen to Radio Nottingham during the game because as usual I was out and about doing stuff on bank holiday Monday in the sunshine.

As for their keeper I saw the highlights at the corresponding fixture and he made some excellent saves in the 3-0 defeat. If this time the good chances were all straight at him or wide then again that's on the players. Worth an approach for next season?

N.B. I wasn't food shopping or in IKEA but I was repeatedly checking the scoreline :)

[OchPie]

But repeatedly to a Dover player, not a Notts player!

I said that! :)

If the criticism was that he wasn't very effective, I totally get that. But the criticism that he always chose the safe option, or that he was just there to pass it to Palmer - that's what I don't think was fair. (Heard such complaining from a few of those around me during the game.)

[the_anticlough]

I haven't been able to see much of Arter but my worries are not about what passes he makes or whether they come off or not. I'm assuming he'll be OK on that.
My concerns would be about speed, stamina, defensive covering, covering ground in general, drive, determination, impact on overall team spirit on the pitch.

Before looking at other options entirely, who's going to be better in the play-offs - Francis or Arter? I think we know what we're going to get from Francis. The chances of Arter being better, considering all aspects of the game, is it - better 33%, same 33%, worse 33%. There's a risk there that could be very costly.

Earlier in the season, didn't IB try a midfield 3 of Palmer/Vincent/Roberts. That wasn't too bad.

At least the calls for Doyle on here have finally disappeared

[laddo]

Roberts to one side of a central midfield 3? If so, that's not for me. He's even more unsuited than playing Rodrigues in there.

[ancientpie]

Arter hasn’t been poor since joining, just in his last two games.
Prior to that he looked a cut above.

I would expect any ex international, Championship player who drops down to this level to look a cut above however I cannot agree that Arter has looked anything other than useful at the best in his time here, obviously fitness comes into it but I expected much better.

[the_anticlough]

Roberts to one side of a central midfield 3? If so, that's not for me. He's even more unsuited than playing Rodrigues in there.
There was a longish run of games this season with 3-5-2, Palmer holding, Roberts a bit advanced of him on the left, Vincent a bit advanced on the right. A midfield diamond actually with Ruben at the head, behind Wootton. It was by no means disastrous, Cal actually did quite well there (it might have included the wins over Solihull and/or Stockport).

If playing HA is putting us on course for play-off failure, we'll have to go back to something tried before (but wasn't great, obviously, or we'd have kept it) or try something new like my suggestion on the other thread.

Do we have a problem in Centre-mid or is everything settled?

[ncfcog]

Just had the stats through for yesterday's game, probably the most outrageous set of stats I've seen since doing this, hopefully get them published this evening, you won't want to miss this one XD

[Hoppie]

My point with comparing it to the Barnet games is that no team goes out every week and wins 5-0 every game. To do that, however poor the opposition is, you need things to go your way

Sometimes things go for you, and sometimes they don't. Yesterday we were a lucky deflection or a bit better finishing away from scoring a second, third, fourth etc.

It is the time of the season where teams do get nervous and Grimsby only getting a point at Barnet shows that. I would argue the quality of a team is defined by how well they do against the more difficult sides than against teams that they "should" be putting away by 4 or 5 because those games are not 'proper' football matches. Dover did not even attempt to attack yesterday so there was literally no space for 80 minutes, yet we still managed to force over 20 shots and I would imagine Shots on target were in double figures too.

Our record against the top 7 stands up to scrutiny this season.

Does it? When did we last beat someone in the top 7? 12 games 4 wins?

[upthemaggies]

Does it? When did we last beat someone in the top 7? 12 games 4 wins?

JonahBabb14 is right, there's nothing much between Notts and the rest of the top 7 when it comes to games against one another......


Top 7 against the top 7

Stockport - W5 D2 L3 Pts 17 (still to play WRX & HAL)
Wrexham - W4 D4 L3 Pts 16 (still to play STK)
Halifax - W4 D4 L3 Pts 16 (still to play STK)
Solihull - W4 D4 L4 Pts 16
Notts County - W4 D4 L4 Pts 16
Grimsby - W4 D2 L6 Pts 14
Chesterfield - W3 D4 L5 Pts 13

All 4 of Halifax's wins were at home, Chesterfield have only won one at home to a current top 7 side.
Notts have won only one away (Grimsby)

[countygump]

https://youtu.be/9bNgBnN-6dY

[laddo]

I believe that system may have been adopted in the Wealdstone I attended. I just don't like it defensively, even with 3 at the back, those 3 in centre mid and two flying wingbacks means we lose the battle in there. Roberts defensive work is limited at best, and therefore prefer in higher up the pitch.

And yes we still have a problem in centre-mid, but playing Mr Goals and Assists Rubes there is not the solution.

[Glad2BeAPie]

We just can't break teams down that employ the same tactics as Dover

[Notts78]

JonahBabb14 is right, there's nothing much between Notts and the rest of the top 7 when it comes to games against one another......


Top 7 against the top 7

Stockport - W5 D2 L3 Pts 17 (still to play WRX & HAL)
Wrexham - W4 D4 L3 Pts 16 (still to play STK)
Halifax - W4 D4 L3 Pts 16 (still to play STK)
Solihull - W4 D4 L4 Pts 16
Notts County - W4 D4 L4 Pts 16
Grimsby - W4 D2 L6 Pts 14
Chesterfield - W3 D4 L5 Pts 13

All 4 of Halifax's wins were at home, Chesterfield have only won one at home to a current top 7 side.
Notts have won only one away (Grimsby)

The problem we have is that we haven’t beaten any of the Top 4 away. It is looking almost nailed on that we will have to do a first this season as and when we meet whoever from that group. Am I confident? Nope. However, football is a funny old game and we might just put in one of those outstanding performances that we have rarely seen so far.
Performance levels aren’t great and my own opinion is that players are preserving themselves and doing the bear minimum. After all, IB has done similar with team selections.
I’m not concerned with performances. It’s all about results from here on in. If we continue to scrape 1-0’s, I’ll take that. Especially if it’s over 5 games.

[Notts78]

We just can't break teams down that employ the same tactics as Dover

Not sure that’s the worry when we play any of the Top 7.
I was sadly working yesterday and got home to watch a decent chunk of Chessie v Stockport. Both teams looked very limited. What both did was work damn hard at closing down. I think they call that the high press.
We desperately need our skipper back so we can have more confidence against the press. Otherwise I fear we will concede goals of our own making.

[Elite_Pie]

Performance levels aren’t great and my own opinion is that players are preserving themselves and doing the bear minimum.

They did spend a lot of the game ursine around yesterday.

[the_anticlough]

They did spend a lot of the game ursine around yesterday.

But IB won't panda to the Gerrit forward brigade

[Elite_Pie]

But IB won't panda to the Gerrit forward brigade

No matter how grizzly they get.

[lunaspie]

No matter how grizzly they get.

Give them the bear necessities -only if they argue until they're Baloo in the face.

[SwalePie]

I heard Monday's Dover game was a bit Pooh to watch.

[OchPie]

I heard Monday's Dover game was a bit Pooh to watch.

They set out to furstrate us but we had brief moments of real koalaty.

[lunaspie]

They did spend a lot of the game ursine around yesterday.

Polar opposites,some of them.

[tied_up_in_notts]

We were lacking somebody up front like Teddy Sheringham

[Hoppie]

JonahBabb14 is right, there's nothing much between Notts and the rest of the top 7 when it comes to games against one another......


Top 7 against the top 7

Stockport - W5 D2 L3 Pts 17 (still to play WRX & HAL)
Wrexham - W4 D4 L3 Pts 16 (still to play STK)
Halifax - W4 D4 L3 Pts 16 (still to play STK)
Solihull - W4 D4 L4 Pts 16
Notts County - W4 D4 L4 Pts 16
Grimsby - W4 D2 L6 Pts 14
Chesterfield - W3 D4 L5 Pts 13

All 4 of Halifax's wins were at home, Chesterfield have only won one at home to a current top 7 side.
Notts have won only one away (Grimsby)

Fair enough, might be a home/away thing but we still haven’t beaten anyone on that list since 2nd Jan…

[kill_the_drum]

We just can't break teams down that employ the same tactics as Dover

Apart from the fact we broke them down yesterday and the week before!

[SwalePie]

Apart from the fact we broke them down yesterday and the week before!

:D

[lunaspie]

Apart from the fact we broke them down yesterday and the week before!

Stated with the simplicity and serenity of a yogi. We made no boo-boos.

[SwalePie]

Stated with the simplicity and serenity of a yogi. We made no boo-boos.

Usually the best way to point out a Boo Boo.

EDIT: Your edit beat me to it :D

[SwalePie]

https://youtu.be/bqk3Vyhxwko

[lunaspie]

Usually the best way to point out a Boo Boo.

EDIT: Your edit beat me to it :D

I'm faster than your av-er-age poster.

[JonahBabb14]

https://youtu.be/bqk3Vyhxwko

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly. Shot after shot, sliced through them time after time. Could so easily have been 6 or 7.

IB is 16/1 for the Lincoln City job btw.

Hands up if you're happy for him to go?

[Notts78]

Why was the goal disallowed? 2 Dover players on the byline. One marking in goal and the other in front of the corner taker?

[ncfcog]

Why was the goal disallowed? 2 Dover players on the byline. One marking in goal and the other in front of the corner taker?

Stats now up … https://www.nottscountystats.com/post/stats-match-50-dover-athletic-h

[Elite_Pie]

Why was the goal disallowed? 2 Dover players on the byline. One marking in goal and the other in front of the corner taker?

Looks well dodgy on those highlights at around 2:27.

Surely their player near the touchline has to be level with or behind Sam?

[Glad2BeAPie]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly. Shot after shot, sliced through them time after time. Could so easily have been 6 or 7.

IB is 16/1 for the Lincoln City job btw.

Hands up if you're happy for him to go?
Stephen Bradley from Shamrock Rovers in talks at Lincoln

[Hoppie]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly. Shot after shot, sliced through them time after time. Could so easily have been 6 or 7.

IB is 16/1 for the Lincoln City job btw.

Hands up if you're happy for him to go?

Can’t find the ‘sitting on my hands’ emoji.

[Robertomac]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly. Shot after shot, sliced through them time after time. Could so easily have been 6 or 7.

I think one of our issues all season is our conversion rate. From memory, we've had a number of games where we've created a lot, but failed to capitalise. This kind of fits in with the notion that we've got a soft underbelly I suppose as we seem to lack that real killer instinct to ruthlessly put games to bed.

Has our resident stats man got any info on conversion rates?

[uysapie]

Looks well dodgy on those highlights at around 2:27.

Surely their player near the touchline has to be level with or behind Sam?

Looks like only one player behind Sam, needed to be 2 not to be offside. Wasted chances!

[Elite_Pie]

Looks like only one player behind Sam, needed to be 2 not to be offside. Wasted chances!

One definitely behind him, but the one on the touchline near the lino looks level or behind.

[jackal2]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly.

No they don't. They show we missed too many chances and that we could have been done by a sucker punch towards the end.

It doesn't matter how much IB thinks we controlled the game or how relaxed he felt. The fact is that a lot of people paid good money and came away dissatisfied with what they saw. Fans don't turn up wanting to be disappointed, indeed they responded well early on when we played with a bit of pace and purpose, but they got progressively more frustrated as chances came and went and the players began to overplay - yet again - with too many sideways and backwards passes, making the game seem slower and slower and gradually killing off any atmosphere.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how much IB and any other football purists tell us we should be impressed and entertained with that style of play, the fact is many fans aren't. A lot preferred the Warnock and Allardyce approach to playing and winning matches. In my opinion a lot of Notts fans want to see the ball played forward more often with more purpose, less passing the ball about in our defensive third, and a lot more intensity and aggression in our play.

[Elite_Pie]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly.

Were you at the game, or have you only watched 3 minutes of highlights?

Genuinely interested to know.

[SwalePie]

Were you at the game, or have you only watched 3 minutes of highlights?

Genuinely interested to know.

To be fair the 11+ minutes extended highlights I've just enjoyed make it look similar. Anyhow, about that disallowed goal...

21701

Two Dover players almost on the line. Obviously irrelevant now but I'm convinced that was a perfectly good goal.

[OchPie]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly. Shot after shot, sliced through them time after time. Could so easily have been 6 or 7.

What they don't show is just how every time we won the ball back around the midfield, we stopped, reset, and started probing again while Dover piled back behind the ball. It felt like we were trying to earn the right to score rather than just pounding a fist on the table of the game and demanding to.

If one more of those many chances had gone in, and especially had it been two more, I think people would have been a lot less restless with the performance. But especially when you think Wrexham are currently scoring for fun, 1-0 just was a frustration in and of itself.

Oh and I thought the lino was wrong.

[uysapie]

No they don't. They show we missed too many chances and that we could have been done by a sucker punch towards the end.

It doesn't matter how much IB thinks we controlled the game or how relaxed he felt. The fact is that a lot of people paid good money and came away dissatisfied with what they saw. Fans don't turn up wanting to be disappointed, indeed they responded well early on when we played with a bit of pace and purpose, but they got progressively more frustrated as chances came and went and the players began to overplay - yet again - with too many sideways and backwards passes, making the game seem slower and slower and gradually killing off any atmosphere.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how much IB and any other football purists tell us we should be impressed and entertained with that style of play, the fact is many fans aren't. A lot preferred the Warnock and Allardyce approach to playing and winning matches. In my opinion a lot of Notts fans want to see the ball played forward more often with more purpose, less passing the ball about in our defensive third, and a lot more intensity and aggression in our play.

Totally agree.

[ForeignLegion]

Well done Bournemouth. Just looking for the next Yeovil/Blackpool to come along.

[irishpete]

I wonder what the odds are for all 3 Nottinghamshire clubs to be promoted via the play offs?
I see Steve Cook played last night despite the fact his Dad suffered a heart attack in the stand before ko.
Takes some doing that

[laddo]

No they don't. They show we missed too many chances and that we could have been done by a sucker punch towards the end.

It doesn't matter how much IB thinks we controlled the game or how relaxed he felt. The fact is that a lot of people paid good money and came away dissatisfied with what they saw. Fans don't turn up wanting to be disappointed, indeed they responded well early on when we played with a bit of pace and purpose, but they got progressively more frustrated as chances came and went and the players began to overplay - yet again - with too many sideways and backwards passes, making the game seem slower and slower and gradually killing off any atmosphere.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how much IB and any other football purists tell us we should be impressed and entertained with that style of play, the fact is many fans aren't. A lot preferred the Warnock and Allardyce approach to playing and winning matches. In my opinion a lot of Notts fans want to see the ball played forward more often with more purpose, less passing the ball about in our defensive third, and a lot more intensity and aggression in our play.


Good post


Notts fans are traditionally a lot more used to more direct football, I certainly have been since I became a supporter in the 1980s. It's in our blood, it's how we've been most successful.

So I fully understand how a new approach is frustrating to many. This is emphasised against teams adopting a certain approach as we don't seem to have the ability against them to change gears and dramatically change approaches. That's a clear issue for me.

Naturally everyone would snap you hands off for direct and successful as we were under Warnock (89-93) and Allardyce (97-99). Let's just say without reliving the pain that there have been many managers who got the ball forward early (often too early) who weren't successful. The fact we are quoting 1998/99 and before says it all. Anyway before I starting thinking of all those managers who failed with aimless pumps, hit the big man, work off any knock-downs etc let's move on....

It doesn't matter whether you've seen loads of matches, listened intently on the radio each week or just read comments of other fans on here the theme of not being clinical enough has been common all season. I've seen it with my own eyes, my ears have heard the observation and I've read the complaints on here.

Which is strange when we've scored 77 goals in the league this season. Only the two big money boys at the top have scored more. We've got two players on 20 goals for the season in all comps. So we score goals , that's there for all to see in black and white. We win a lot of home games scoring lots of goals, again that's a fact

It's the next column in the table the goals against which is a far bigger problem. Just look how that compares to our promotion rivals. That's the side of the game we should be complaining and a lot more concerned about than whether we beat Dover 1-0 or 3-0.

[durhampie]

Those highlights make everyone slating IB and the players a bit silly. Shot after shot, sliced through them time after time. Could so easily have been 6 or 7.

IB is 16/1 for the Lincoln City job btw.

Hands up if you're happy for him to go?

Its a pity they didn't show the other 80 odd minutes, you may have had a different opinion..

[JonahBabb14]

Were you at the game, or have you only watched 3 minutes of highlights?

Genuinely interested to know.

Yes, i was at the game. Relentless pressure. Based on my pidgeon maths, we had a shot on goal every 4 and a half minutes.

We cut them open time and time again, and i guarantee if 3 of those long range shots or one to ones had gone in, everyone would be happy with a 4-0 win.

Dover have proven they are hard to "destroy". Theyve had a handful of games where they have been battered this season, but a lot of narrow defeats, particularly in the games.you would expect them to get tonked in (Stockport, Wrexham, us, Halifax, Chesterfield)

It is clear we're not perfect, but we are also 5th, (only) 12 points behind the team/s that have spent millions on chasing promotion, and in with as good a chance as any of winning the play offs.

I am not sure exactly what some of our fans would be happy with? I can imagine the messages on here if we were in Stockport's position and losing at home to Borehamwood, or in Wrexham's position and conceding a late equaliser to the same opposition down to ten men.

Are we doing better than last year? The points total says yes. Is the football generally more entertaining than last year? Yes. Lumping it forward doesn't work anymore. Look where Borehamwood are. Wrexham and Stockport are slightly more direct but they also have substantially better players so more able to force wins.

Some people need to get a grip.

[JonahBabb14]

Its a pity they didn't show the other 80 odd minutes, you may have had a different opinion..

Just out of interest, how many shots on goal/opportunities would you have been happy with? 25? 30? 50?

[BigFatPie]

Yes, i was at the game. Relentless pressure. Based on my pidgeon maths, we had a shot on goal every 4 and a half minutes.

We cut them open time and time again, and i guarantee if 3 of those long range shots or one to ones had gone in, everyone would be happy with a 4-0 win.

Dover have proven they are hard to "destroy". Theyve had a handful of games where they have been battered this season, but a lot of narrow defeats, particularly in the games.you would expect them to get tonked in (Stockport, Wrexham, us, Halifax, Chesterfield)

It is clear we're not perfect, but we are also 5th, (only) 12 points behind the team/s that have spent millions on chasing promotion, and in with as good a chance as any of winning the play offs.

I am not sure exactly what some of our fans would be happy with? I can imagine the messages on here if we were in Stockport's position and losing at home to Borehamwood, or in Wrexham's position and conceding a late equaliser to the same opposition down to ten men.

Are we doing better than last year? The points total says yes. Is the football generally more entertaining than last year? Yes. Lumping it forward doesn't work anymore. Look where Borehamwood are. Wrexham and Stockport are slightly more direct but they also have substantially better players so more able to force wins.

Some people need to get a grip.

Hi Ian.

[SaltySeaDog]

https://youtu.be/bqk3Vyhxwko

wow, so many chances. Seems like we were unlucky not to score at least 3

[Elite_Pie]

we are also 5th, (only) 12 points behind the team/s that have spent millions on chasing promotion, and in with as good a chance as any of winning the play offs.

You don't seem to understand the playoff format in this league. Are you seriously claiming a team that has to win two away games and a final has the same chance as a team who have to win one home game and a final?

[countygump]

It was a chit performance. Too much 2U-2Me, slow, boring, mind numbing, pointless football. But we won 1-0 so all is forgiven AFAIC. I would have been mightily p1shed off if we had only drawn or Gawd forbid, lost. Given that showing, Alty won't be easy and Maidenhead could possibly be a defeat.

[crazyfists]

You don't seem to understand the playoff format in this league. Are you seriously claiming a team that has to win two away games and a final has the same chance as a team who have to win one home game and a final?

This 100%. We don't have as good a chance as any to win the playoffs for the above reason and the fact we're near the bottom in away performances adds to this. We all wish we were going into the playoffs really confident as fans but we know we have a soft underbelly and let in easy goals.

[durhampie]

Just out of interest, how many shots on goal/opportunities would you have been happy with? 25? 30? 50?

We were playing against a bunch of players, of which some were not being paid including the goalkeeper. To put a performance in like that against nothing more than a pub team is not acceptable.. If that's what excites you, then fine..

[hissingdwarf]

I really don't know where this new influx of ridiculous comments are coming from. Feck me, IB must have his full extended family posting on here for him!
Anyone who thinks Monday was a decisive and enjoyable performance, really need to give their heads a wobble.

Christ, when you've sat through Colin Murphy and Steve Thompson (who at least knew how to get the ball forwards and gave great after match interviews!) and people like Jocky Scott (dragging out all the goodies here lol) then you know we're slipping to that level again and have some hopes we can do things differently. Well, we can in the sense that all this 50 passes backwards and in our own half rubbish is as bad, if not worse than the managers mentioned idea of chuck it up to a big No 9. Let him have his back to goal and draw others around him. KW is at his best with his back to goal and controlling the ball down...so for fecks sake, use what you've got and try a plan B occasionally.

On Monday the game was begging for 'old school' way of breaking a team down rather than the 'to me, to you' rubbish. We didn't do it and all IB did was blame Dover (and other teams before them) who were fighting for everything...

Maybe Ian, your team should do the same. Show some passion, show some common sense and fight for a game rather than walk through the 50 passes crap when it isn't working.

[JonahBabb14]

You don't seem to understand the playoff format in this league. Are you seriously claiming a team that has to win two away games and a final has the same chance as a team who have to win one home game and a final?

As it stands we have one home game, then an away game, then a final. There is the argument to say the team that has the QF/Eliminator benefits from playing in the midweek so they don't have a week before their next game.

In every year since the Top 7 format has been introduced, at least one of the teams in 2nd or 3rd have failed to get through to the final (i have excluded the curtailed season as everyone had a long gap between games).

So in summary, yes, i am saying that we will have "as good a chance as any"

[JonahBabb14]

Hi Ian.

Is that all you have?

[Elite_Pie]

As it stands we have one home game, then an away game, then a final. There is the argument to say the team that has the QF/Eliminator benefits from playing in the midweek so they don't have a week before their next game.

In every year since the Top 7 format has been introduced, at least one of the teams in 2nd or 3rd have failed to get through to the final (i have excluded the curtailed season as everyone had a long gap between games).

So in summary, yes, i am saying that we will have "as good a chance as any"

So you think all six teams who qualify for the playoffs have a 5/1 chance of going up.

If you are a bookie by trade, please could you PM me.

[kill_the_drum]

It should have been at least 4-0, it wasn’t. We won the game, clean sheet, and put three points on the board. Job done.
I’ve seen countless worse performances than that over the years. Countless.
We’ve won 7 of the last 9 games and IB is constantly having to talk about fans frustrations. I don’t blame him for defending the players and losing his temper on Monday. It’s the same vultures that then state facts like ‘we’re not ruthless enough in front of goal.’ Well apart from the two clubs that bought the best players from leagues 1&2, we’ve scored more than everyone else, so that isn’t true. We also can’t win the play offs, despite the fact we’ve beat Stockport, Wrexham, Solihull, Grimsby and Halifax (cup), so that isn’t true.
If we were to win the playoffs and I’d been one of the supporters slating the team all season, I’d be embarrassed.
Just get behind the team FFS!

[JonahBabb14]

It should have been at least 4-0, it wasn’t. We won the game, clean sheet, and put three points on the board. Job done.
I’ve seen countless worse performances than that over the years. Countless.
We’ve won 7 of the last 9 games and IB is constantly having to talk about fans frustrations. I don’t blame him for defending the players and losing his temper on Monday. It’s the same vultures that then state facts like ‘we’re not ruthless enough in front of goal.’ Well apart from the two clubs that bought the best players from leagues 1&2, we’ve scored more than everyone else, so that isn’t true. We also can’t win the play offs, despite the fact we’ve beat Stockport, Wrexham, Solihull, Grimsby and Halifax (cup), so that isn’t true.
If we were to win the playoffs and I’d been one of the supporters slating the team all season, I’d be embarrassed.
Just get behind the team FFS!

Here here.

7 wins out of 9. Shall we let that sink in?

[JonahBabb14]

So you think all six teams who qualify for the playoffs have a 5/1 chance of going up.

If you are a bookie by trade, please could you PM me.

Bookies odds represent "statistical chance".

Liverpool were 17/1 to win against Villareal at half time yesterday.

They do not take into account other factors.

[Elite_Pie]

Bookies odds represent "statistical chance".

Exactly. If they offer 5/1 (or 9/2 with their profit margin) for all teams who qualify then they agree with you.

That's not going to happen.

[JonahBabb14]

Exactly. If they offer 5/1 (or 9/2 with their profit margin) for all teams who qualify then they agree with you.

That's not going to happen.

Absolutely right. It isn't going to happen. That is my point. They are purely looking statistically, no emotion, no thought about what an early red card could do, no consideration of injuries/suspensions etc etc

And while statistics work over a huge sample, they are not useful over a 3 game period.

I can tell you that Hartlepol were more than a 5/1 shot to win the play offs a year ago.

[Elite_Pie]

Absolutely right. It isn't going to happen. That is my point. They are purely looking statistically, no emotion, no thought about what an early red card could do, no consideration of injuries/suspensions etc etc

And while statistics work over a huge sample, they are not useful over a 3 game period.

I can tell you that Hartlepol were more than a 5/1 shot to win the play offs a year ago.

On that basis, what odds would you offer on Wrexham winning the final?

[crazyfists]

This argument is stupid. A team finishing 2nd has a better chance of winning the playoffs than who finishes 7th. It doesn't matter if in the past they haven't always won it, they still have a better chance. You reference Liverpool last night, the fact that VF were at home made a massive difference in the first half but they ran out of steam, if they'd have played both legs at Anfield then it would never have even been a contest. I get what you're trying to say and be positive but your argument that every team has an equal chance is nonsense.

[laddo]

My advice is be very wary JonahBabb14 of strangers offering gifts (odds) on here.

[JonahBabb14]

On that basis, what odds would you offer on Wrexham winning the final?

I am not a Bookie, but one things for sure i wouldn't be backing them at the odds they will be because their chances will be overstated.

The Bookies odds are not the sole arbiter of 'chance' my losses every week on betting are great evidence of that!

Their points from last 9 games = 20
Ours = 21

....

[JonahBabb14]

This argument is stupid. A team finishing 2nd has a better chance of winning the playoffs than who finishes 7th. It doesn't matter if in the past they haven't always won it, they still have a better chance. You reference Liverpool last night, the fact that VF were at home made a massive difference in the first half but they ran out of steam, if they'd have played both legs at Anfield then it would never have even been a contest. I get what you're trying to say and be positive but your argument that every team has an equal chance is nonsense.

You may think it is semantics, but i think i said we have "as good a chance as any" rather than saying everyone has an equal chance.

If we end up playing Wrexham away, we drew against them in our away game.

If we end up playing Solihull away, we drew against them in our away game.

If we end up playing Halifax away, we beat them once in the cup and only lost to a freak outcome in the league (which incidentally was 80/1 with 15 minutes to go).

The Liverpool example is a perfect one to back up my point (even i do say so myself). The bookies didn't think Villareal would run out of steam. It was a change made by the coach and a stroke of luck with poor goalkeeping that started the come back.

We were 1/25 to beat Dover at the start of the game on Monday.....

[Elite_Pie]

You may think it is semantics, but i think i said we have "as good a chance as any" rather than saying everyone has an equal chance.

Is there a difference? So do you think some teams have more chance than others?

[durhampie]

I really don't know where this new influx of ridiculous comments are coming from. Feck me, IB must have his full extended family posting on here for him!
Anyone who thinks Monday was a decisive and enjoyable performance, really need to give their heads a wobble.

Christ, when you've sat through Colin Murphy and Steve Thompson (who at least knew how to get the ball forwards and gave great after match interviews!) and people like Jocky Scott (dragging out all the goodies here lol) then you know we're slipping to that level again and have some hopes we can do things differently. Well, we can in the sense that all this 50 passes backwards and in our own half rubbish is as bad, if not worse than the managers mentioned idea of chuck it up to a big No 9. Let him have his back to goal and draw others around him. KW is at his best with his back to goal and controlling the ball down...so for fecks sake, use what you've got and try a plan B occasionally.

On Monday the game was begging for 'old school' way of breaking a team down rather than the 'to me, to you' rubbish. We didn't do it and all IB did was blame Dover (and other teams before them) who were fighting for everything...

Maybe Ian, your team should do the same. Show some passion, show some common sense and fight for a game rather than walk through the 50 passes crap when it isn't working.

I'm sorry to say but that those who show fight and desire are promptly dropped and replaced with robotic crabs..

[upthemaggies]

Play off finalists and their final position since the current format (2nd-7th single leg affairs) was introduced.

2020/21
Hartlepool U. 4th
Torquay Utd 2nd

2019/20
Harrogate T. 2nd
Notts County 3rd

2018/19
Salford City 3rd
Fylde 5th

2017/18
Tranmere Rov 2nd
Boreham Wood 4th

[Elite_Pie]

Play off finalists and their final position since the current format (2nd-7th single leg affairs) was introduced.

2020/21
Hartlepool U. 4th
Torquay Utd 2nd

2019/20
Harrogate T. 2nd
Notts County 3rd

2018/19
Salford City 3rd
Fylde 5th

2017/18
Tranmere Rov 2nd
Boreham Wood 4th

So at least one of the teams with just a home game to win has made the final, and none of those with two away games to win has ever made the final. That doesn't exactly support the 'as good a chance as any' theory.

[upthemaggies]

5th tier play off winners and their final position since play offs introduced to tier 5 in 2003.....

2nd: 6 winners
3rd: 8 winners
4th: 5 winners
5th: 0
6th: 0
7th: 0

So Notts will probably end up in a position where we will be hoping to become the first club to be promoted at this level finishing lower than 4th.

[upthemaggies]

Top 5 levels combined play off winners by position.

2nd place is of course automatic at all levels above tier 5

2nd: 6
3rd: 36
4th: 34
5th: 18
6th: 21
7th: 8

[Magpies1959]

If it was the style of play, lack of intensity/will to win/tippy tappy passing that caused the booing on Monday, then oresumably if we had taken all if our good chances and won 5 or 6 nil, then people would still have booed.
I think the reason behind the fans' response was we had just beaten Dover 3-0 away so were expecting the same or better at home, coupled with their justified worries over our average at best, away form, which will impact on our play off chances if we don't secure a home quarter final, so goal difference was an issue too.
I don't for one minute think you cannot get out of this division playing the way we do, even allowing for our, saying of the month, 'soft underbelly'. Missed chances, created by our style of play, if scored, against Grimsby, Halifax and Chesterfield alone would have seen us sitting in third position.
Yes we have improvements to make, tinkering if you like, I.e. more steel in midfield, as much as anything which would lead to less pressure on our defence, in our away games particularly. There are fine lines between success and failure in all sports, but the flack which IB has been getting from some quarters is not warranted IMHO.
We need to get behind the lads in the remaining games to help us across the line, cos booing certainly will not help them.
It was interesting to hear on the Magpie Circle last night, that at the sponsors lunch yesterday, when Les Bradd told Kyle Wootton that all the players would go down as heroes/legends of the club, if they got us back in the Football League, that Wootton had not even considered that. He then said he would tell all the players this. I hope, when told, this gives them that extra drive to achieve promotion.

[durhampie]

5th tier play off winners and their final position since play offs introduced to tier 5 in 2003.....

2nd: 6 winners
3rd: 8 winners
4th: 5 winners
5th: 0
6th: 0
7th: 0

So Notts will probably end up in a position where we will be hoping to become the first club to be promoted at this level finishing lower than 4th.

We have no chance whatsoever of getting out of this league whilst we have those 2 uninspiring muppets standing on the touch line with their hands in pockets all game..

[the_anticlough]

No they don't. They show we missed too many chances and that we could have been done by a sucker punch towards the end.

It doesn't matter how much IB thinks we controlled the game or how relaxed he felt. The fact is that a lot of people paid good money and came away dissatisfied with what they saw. Fans don't turn up wanting to be disappointed, indeed they responded well early on when we played with a bit of pace and purpose, but they got progressively more frustrated as chances came and went and the players began to overplay - yet again - with too many sideways and backwards passes, making the game seem slower and slower and gradually killing off any atmosphere.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how much IB and any other football purists tell us we should be impressed and entertained with that style of play, the fact is many fans aren't. A lot preferred the Warnock and Allardyce approach to playing and winning matches. In my opinion a lot of Notts fans want to see the ball played forward more often with more purpose, less passing the ball about in our defensive third, and a lot more intensity and aggression in our play.

You might be right about 'a lot of' Notts fans...but for me my biggest annoyance watching my teams over the years (Notts, England) has always been players giving the ball away cheaply. And I absolutely hate it when this happens and the other side dominates the ball.
Yes, you can understand risk/reward when some ambitious passes don't come off - but careless stray passes, hopeful punts into nowhere, and overhit balls to their keeper drive me nuts.

Didn't go to the Dover games but I can well imagine being annoyed by 1) poor execution - final balls/finishing 2) the league position which demanded we boost our goal difference for that all-important play-off placing.

I would've been mega-frustrated but there's no way I would want a return to 'direct' football

[Elite_Pie]

Just get behind the team FFS!

You keep posting this, but you haven't explained what it means.

Does it mean no criticism is allowed?

[Mark_Ross]

You might be right about 'a lot of' Notts fans...but for me my biggest annoyance watching my teams over the years (Notts, England) has always been players giving the ball away cheaply. And I absolutely hate it when this happens and the other side dominates the ball.
Yes, you can understand risk/reward when some ambitious passes don't come off - but careless stray passes, hopeful punts into nowhere, and overhit balls to their keeper drive me nuts.

Didn't go to the Dover games but I can well imagine being annoyed by 1) poor execution - final balls/finishing 2) the league position which demanded we boost our goal difference for that all-important play-off placing.

I would've been mega-frustrated but there's no way I would want a return to 'direct' football

Aldershot was an absolute disaster of a game, but I think a nice illustration of our various weaknesses.

1. Megatons worth of possession, but not generating any meaningful openings.
(Endless side-to side / backwards passes - even when we were 3-1 down!!)

2. Lack of quality / finishing when we finally do get a goal opportunity.

3. Lack of "battlers" - particularly in midfield.

4. Fragile defence. You can bet your life that at some points we will be cut to shreds & present the opposition with scoring chances, every game. (Thus nullifying 30 mins worth of possession in a few seconds.) Even the very weakest teams in VNL do this to us!

[JonahBabb14]

You keep posting this, but you haven't explained what it means.

Does it mean no criticism is allowed?

As a fellow supporter, I don't think it is my place to tell you how to get behind the team or what it means.

I am simply providing an argument as to why we shouldn't be so downbeat about everything.

The facts are we have won 7 games out of the last 9. For the last 10 games, we are 3rd in the form table. Solihull and Wrexham, who we may end up playing at some point, have a single point more from the last 10 games.

That doesn't say to me we have no chance in the play offs like some seem to be suggesting. It says to me we have AS GOOD A CHANCE as anyone given our recent form.

I have observed this board for two years before finally being motivated to contribute following the tripe I have seen and heard post-Dover.

No team we are likely to meet in the playoffs other than Solihull have smashed Dover in the last 6 months, and many have conceded goals against a team I have never thought would be less likely to score than they were on Monday.

For me, getting behind the team is being reasonable about what we expect from them, not booing (especially not after a win), and being rational about any criticism. It certainly doesn't mean "let's think of all the reasons why we WON'T win the play offs". Don't underestimate how powerful positivity and belief from the fans, particularly in the stadium on a match day, can be for the players, and we might just get what we all want out of this season.

[JonahBabb14]

So at least one of the teams with just a home game to win has made the final, and none of those with two away games to win has ever made the final. That doesn't exactly support the 'as good a chance as any' theory.

As it stands, and remains likely, we will only have one away game to face. Like Fylde did, like Borehamwood did, and Like Hartlepool did.

[JonahBabb14]

I really don't know where this new influx of ridiculous comments are coming from. Feck me, IB must have his full extended family posting on here for him!
Anyone who thinks Monday was a decisive and enjoyable performance, really need to give their heads a wobble.

Christ, when you've sat through Colin Murphy and Steve Thompson (who at least knew how to get the ball forwards and gave great after match interviews!) and people like Jocky Scott (dragging out all the goodies here lol) then you know we're slipping to that level again and have some hopes we can do things differently. Well, we can in the sense that all this 50 passes backwards and in our own half rubbish is as bad, if not worse than the managers mentioned idea of chuck it up to a big No 9. Let him have his back to goal and draw others around him. KW is at his best with his back to goal and controlling the ball down...so for fecks sake, use what you've got and try a plan B occasionally.

On Monday the game was begging for 'old school' way of breaking a team down rather than the 'to me, to you' rubbish. We didn't do it and all IB did was blame Dover (and other teams before them) who were fighting for everything...

Maybe Ian, your team should do the same. Show some passion, show some common sense and fight for a game rather than walk through the 50 passes crap when it isn't working.

So how exactly would what you describe have worked? The whole premise of a more direct approach is winning the second ball. This is infinitely more difficult when there are 10 defenders around than 6 or 8 say. Why do you think teams try to get it wide when the opposition is down to ten men and compact? It stretches the play so there is more space.

Regardless of this, what chances/opportunities would this approach have given us on Monday that the way we played didn't? We'd be going some to have more chances than one every 4.5 minutes.

The team were unlucky not to score more. On another day, we would have scored 6.

Look at what the Stats guy says earlier up the thread and try and tell me it wasn't a strong performance.

[laddo]

You keep posting this, but you haven't explained what it means.

Does it mean no criticism is allowed?

I seriously doubt it.

I’m going to take a wild guess, so this is not FACT, he could mean be that the fans are more vocal and supportive during games? The atmosphere at the Aldershot game even when we were on top and level in the first half was very poor. I know having the fans spread out amongst three areas (standing behind goal with an obstructed and a roof, standing to the side on the open terrace or in the seats along the side) doesn’t help but good supporters/fans offer encouragement when things are going badly, average as well as when things are looking rosey. It’s a two way street, the players need to give us something to cheer about, but the fans should also not be waiting for that each game.

In the remaining games of the season the more vocal encouragement we give the players can only help their performance, right? Once its all over then everyone can jump on their keyboards and phones and moan and criticise but maybe less moaning in these key games would be a good idea.

[CamPie]

I'm another one who can't believe anyone saying we have no chance in the play-offs. Agree with all that it was very frustrating to only score one against Dover, the goal difference could have been much improved. We battered them - despite the sideways passing - on another day may have got a hatful, but that has been a problem all season. But to boo? I would be more worried if we stopped creating chances.

Let's throw in a scenario which may happen - say we have a terrible last 2 games and finish 7th, we play Solihull away then it would be Halifax away if we won. We battered Solihull at our place and managed a crazy 3-3 at theirs with a very scratch squad around the time we had a lot out with illness. We battered Halifax twice and somehow ended up with 1 point - again a crazy last ten minutes at their place when we lost our heads after they went for broke with 10 men.

So are all saying on here that we have no chance of beating Solihull followed by Halifax? I am more optimistic than that and will remain so until we lose.

More realistically I think we will finish 5 or 6 (goal difference may put us 6th - ref Dover). Grimsby home or away will be mega tough but not unwinnable. If we get knocked out I will be p****d off for a day or so, then realise it is only a game of football, get over it and carry on supporting Notts as I have for over 50 years. Season ticket already renewed - although will only make my usual 6-8 home games.

PS. Can't make Altrincham but tickets and train booked for Maidenhead and looking forward to celebrating wherever we've finished up.

[kill_the_drum]

You keep posting this, but you haven't explained what it means.

Does it mean no criticism is allowed?

Of course criticism is allowed, although I disagree with most of it. This board is a mix of people who normally see things in a positive light and those who see it in a negative, I get that. However, you don’t see anyone who is generally positive stating that we’ll definitely get promoted, yet on the flip side it’s constantly stated that we can’t win the playoffs.
15 games ago it was a ‘fact’ that we wouldn’t even make the playoffs, or at best we’d scrape in.
Then you’ve got the constant criticism of the players/manager. Again, I don’t agree with most of it but it’s the claims that ‘his heads been turned’ or he doesn’t care’ that I just can’t understand. Apparently we’ve now got a manager that can brainwash players to only pass sideways, and gets angry when we score an ugly goal! It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it. That’s what I’m mainly referring to when I say get behind the team.
And all these comments are coming as we’ve won 7 and drawn 1 of our last 10 games.

[Elite_Pie]

That doesn't say to me we have no chance in the play offs like some seem to be suggesting. It says to me we have AS GOOD A CHANCE as anyone given our recent form.

I see both options as a bit silly. Saying we have no chance in the playoffs is silly, because if we get there we obviously have a chance. I also think that seeing as our best placing looks to be fifth, I find saying we have "as good chance as anyone" is equally silly. I try and avoid extreme views like those two. As someone has often said, #balancenotbias.

[Elite_Pie]

As it stands, and remains likely, we will only have one away game to face. Like Fylde did, like Borehamwood did, and Like Hartlepool did.

Yes, and more others didn't.

You've told me you're not a bookie, are you a cherry picker by any chance?

[JonahBabb14]

Yes, and more others didn't.

You've told me you're not a bookie, are you a cherry picker by any chance?

Haha. No, but my glass is more than half full!!

[Elite_Pie]

Of course criticism is allowed, although I disagree with most of it. This board is a mix of people who normally see things in a positive light and those who see it in a negative, I get that. However, you don’t see anyone who is generally positive stating that we’ll definitely get promoted, yet on the flip side it’s constantly stated that we can’t win the playoffs.
15 games ago it was a ‘fact’ that we wouldn’t even make the playoffs, or at best we’d scrape in.
Then you’ve got the constant criticism of the players/manager. Again, I don’t agree with most of it but it’s the claims that ‘his heads been turned’ or he doesn’t care’ that I just can’t understand. Apparently we’ve now got a manager that can brainwash players to only pass sideways, and gets angry when we score an ugly goal! It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it. That’s what I’m mainly referring to when I say get behind the team.
And all these comments are coming as we’ve won 7 and drawn 1 of our last 10 games.

Good reply, thanks for that. I think you are getting a bit confused by terming occasional criticism as "constant criticism".

On boards like this one you will always get posters who think we've lost if we go 1-0 down, and posters who see nothing but a bright future. I hope the latter group have got it right. If you look for negatives you will definitely find them, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks that way.

[matt_magpie]

Of course criticism is allowed, although I disagree with most of it. This board is a mix of people who normally see things in a positive light and those who see it in a negative, I get that. However, you don’t see anyone who is generally positive stating that we’ll definitely get promoted, yet on the flip side it’s constantly stated that we can’t win the playoffs.
15 games ago it was a ‘fact’ that we wouldn’t even make the playoffs, or at best we’d scrape in.
Then you’ve got the constant criticism of the players/manager. Again, I don’t agree with most of it but it’s the claims that ‘his heads been turned’ or he doesn’t care’ that I just can’t understand. Apparently we’ve now got a manager that can brainwash players to only pass sideways, and gets angry when we score an ugly goal! It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it. That’s what I’m mainly referring to when I say get behind the team.
And all these comments are coming as we’ve won 7 and drawn 1 of our last 10 games.

Totally agree with a lot of that. There was a lot of criticism of the team Monday but lets face it Dovers tactics didn’t make it for a good game. They sat back for 80 mins even when losing, there was absolutely no point launching it / going direct when they literally most of the time had all 11 players in their last third, they had a numerical advantage in winning the first and second balls so it was better taking the ball to them and try and work it through the gaps. There wasn’t any other option and unless you get the 2nd quickly their not going to come out any earlier. It’s going to be totally different in the playoffs, yes their going to press us but also we are going to have a lot more space, if we have Brindley and Cameron back and get near our peak we can beat anyone, all ifs though.

[jackal2]

You might be right about 'a lot of' Notts fans...but for me my biggest annoyance watching my teams over the years (Notts, England) has always been players giving the ball away cheaply. And I absolutely hate it when this happens and the other side dominates the ball.
Yes, you can understand risk/reward when some ambitious passes don't come off - but careless stray passes, hopeful punts into nowhere, and overhit balls to their keeper drive me nuts.

Didn't go to the Dover games but I can well imagine being annoyed by 1) poor execution - final balls/finishing 2) the league position which demanded we boost our goal difference for that all-important play-off placing.

I would've been mega-frustrated but there's no way I would want a return to 'direct' football

Two things I've already said but I'll reiterate to avoid any misunderstanding:

1. I'm not calling for IB's head, just for a more flexible style of play
2. I'm not calling for 'direct' football of the type played by, say, Steve Thompson.

I've always thought it was a bit of a myth that Warnock and Allardyce were long-ball merchants, because they really weren't. Their teams were very physical and intense and they tended to get the ball out of their own half with relatively few passes, but I remember seeing Notts play some exhilarating attacking (passing) football under those managers. In essence they mixed up their play, sometimes using the height and physicality of players like Dave Regis and Sean Farrell, but also taking advantage of the guile of players like Gary Lund, Mark Draper, Dean Thomas, Steve Finnan, Mark Robson and Gary Jones. They also both made good use of battlers like Paul Harding and Shaun Derry. The reason the teams with these players were so successful is because they had the tools to vary their approach to combat all types of opponent.

The problem with IB's style of play, to date, is that they ONLY seem to be able to play one way i.e. a build from the back passing game. Sometimes it works well, but in other games we get bullied into submission (too easily) or smothered by the tactics our opponents adopt. We never seem to have a Plan B, let alone C. Anticlough has previously suggested that IB cannot vary the style because he has too many players of the same type, and to a degree I think that's true, but I suspect there's also an element of stubbornness from the manager. IB only seems to show any emotion on the sideline when the players break from the 'tippy-tappy' model, for instance by shooting from distance or playing a longer ball rather than trying to pass the ball into the net. In his book, this is 'forcing the play' and 'risking losing possession', but sometimes these risks are worth taking for the potential reward.

Whatever the reason for our one-dimensional approach, I think Burchnall's play-off hopes and his long-term relationship with Notts fans will depend on whether he can introduce more variety, intensity and aggression into our play, not only to give us a better chance of grinding out results against different types of opposition, but also because a lot of Notts supporters don't want to see our side looking 'nice'. Remember, we're the unfashionable club who used to delight in running over teams with a big ego and a soft underbelly.

A lot of football managers seem to think that all fans want to see now is football played like Manchester City or Barcelona, but the truth is that a lot of us still want an element of blood and guts. Apart from a goal, nothing excites crowds more than a crunching tackle and seeing their players getting right in their opponent's faces. Too often under IB we appear to play passive, mid-to-low tempo football in front of our opponents rather than getting it in the mixers on the floor or in the air.

For most people I genuinely don't think it's cry of 'Burchnall out'. I think it's a plea of 'Burchnall adapt'.

[Elite_Pie]

They sat back for 80 mins even when losing, there was absolutely no point launching it / going direct when they literally most of the time had all 11 players in their last third, they had a numerical advantage in winning the first and second balls so it was better taking the ball to them and try and work it through the gaps.

So if they had 11 players in the last third, where were the gaps? There weren't any because our pedestrian approach play gave them loads of time to fill the gaps and make sure everyone was marked. I think that's what frustrated so many, we never tried any variation. A few early balls to Wootton might have caused them a few problems but we never gave it a go, leaving Wootton anonymous.

Edit: Just read jackal's reply, and he explains what I'm trying to say better than I did.

[laddo]

Good debate this

If anyone uses the phrase "occasional criticism" and "NCM" in the same sentence and doesn't include the phrase "rarely seen or doesn't happen" needs their heads shaking or blinkers removing. This place can be a cauldron of negativity at times, pitchforks well and truly out, overreactions aplenty. That's fine some people love the melodrama, love to moan especially after a defeat or even when we are losing 1-1 at HT.

KTD's recent post is a thing of beauty but should be removed from NCM immediately as he's far too accurate with his assessment of the board. Summed up perfectly with this doozy "It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it." Like I say some people like to be negative, like to moan. As a Notts fan let's be honest it's low hanging fruit and easy pickings.

Warnock and Allardyce to me were direct, not long ball or even worse aimless punts. Not even close. They were great managers , and they were over 20 and 30 years ago.


Slightly annoyed with Jackal for mentioning Steve Thompson's reign as manager but luckily I swallowed the sick back down almost instantly. Still likely to give me nightmares if I think about that period too long lol.

Jackal's plea for a manager to adapt is very much a valid one , it's obvious to me IB needs to adapt more than he has done. But again this is nothing new sooooo many managers we had needed to adapt to gain more success than they achieved but managers tend to be stubborn , have huge self belief in their approach and principles and that's to be expected and in part admired no matter how frustrating it can be for the fans. Us fans have HUGE obvious advantages over any Notts manager but that seems to be forgotten or ignored by too many no matter how much of amateur expert they are or claim to be.

As for our chances in the playoffs whether viewed statistically, from a bookies odds point of view, or as a Notts fan/supporter I don't fancy our chances. Just my opinion.

But we have a chance, we are in the playoffs once again when many experts continued to predict defeats and us not even reaching the playoffs (which would have been disastrous and unacceptable) during the great form we've been in the last 10 games as highlighted above, but it was never gonna happen. Let's be honest it's never looked like happening all season.

[uysapie]

Two things I've already said but I'll reiterate to avoid any misunderstanding:

1. I'm not calling for IB's head, just for a more flexible style of play
2. I'm not calling for 'direct' football of the type played by, say, Steve Thompson.

I've always thought it was a bit of a myth that Warnock and Allardyce were long-ball merchants, because they really weren't. Their teams were very physical and intense and they tended to get the ball out of their own half with relatively few passes, but I remember seeing Notts play some exhilarating attacking (passing) football under those managers. In essence they mixed up their play, sometimes using the height and physicality of players like Dave Regis and Sean Farrell, but also taking advantage of the guile of players like Gary Lund, Mark Draper, Dean Thomas, Steve Finnan, Mark Robson and Gary Jones. They also both made good use of battlers like Paul Harding and Shaun Derry. The reason the teams with these players were so successful is because they had the tools to vary their approach to combat all types of opponent.

The problem with IB's style of play, to date, is that they ONLY seem to be able to play one way i.e. a build from the back passing game. Sometimes it works well, but in other games we get bullied into submission (too easily) or smothered by the tactics our opponents adopt. We never seem to have a Plan B, let alone C. Anticlough has previously suggested that IB cannot vary the style because he has too many players of the same type, and to a degree I think that's true, but I suspect there's also an element of stubbornness from the manager. IB only seems to show any emotion on the sideline when the players break from the 'tippy-tappy' model, for instance by shooting from distance or playing a longer ball rather than trying to pass the ball into the net. In his book, this is 'forcing the play' and 'risking losing possession', but sometimes these risks are worth taking for the potential reward.

Whatever the reason for our one-dimensional approach, I think Burchnall's play-off hopes and his long-term relationship with Notts fans will depend on whether he can introduce more variety, intensity and aggression into our play, not only to give us a better chance of grinding out results against different types of opposition, but also because a lot of Notts supporters don't want to see our side looking 'nice'. Remember, we're the unfashionable club who used to delight in running over teams with a big ego and a soft underbelly.

A lot of football managers seem to think that all fans want to see now is football played like Manchester City or Barcelona, but the truth is that a lot of us still want an element of blood and guts. Apart from a goal, nothing excites crowds more than a crunching tackle and seeing their players getting right in their opponent's faces. Too often under IB we appear to play passive, mid-to-low tempo football in front of our opponents rather than getting it in the mixers on the floor or in the air.

For most people I genuinely don't think it's cry of 'Burchnall out'. I think it's a plea of 'Burchnall adapt'.

Succinctly put.

[jackal2]

Slightly annoyed with Jackal for mentioning Steve Thompson's reign as manager but luckily I swallowed the sick back down almost instantly. Still likely to give me nightmares if I think about that period too long lol.

Yes I'm sorry. Still too soon. The pain is still raw!

[Elite_Pie]

If anyone uses the phrase "occasional criticism" and "NCM" in the same sentence and doesn't include the phrase "rarely seen or doesn't happen" needs their heads shaking or blinkers removing. This place can be a cauldron of negativity at times, pitchforks well and truly out, overreactions aplenty.

Exactly. That's how boards like this one work, and why the phrase "only on NCM" is so laughably naive.

Don't sit in judgement, and don't try and change it. Leave that to the posters.

[jackal2]

Incidentally, just been watching Manchester City trying to play out from the back at all costs and conceding two late goals to Real Madrid.

[Glad2BeAPie]

Incidentally, just been watching Manchester City trying to play out from the back at all costs and conceding two late goals to Real Madrid.
Wish we had the same wide open areas to play in as City have had.

[crazyfists]

You may think it is semantics, but i think i said we have "as good a chance as any" rather than saying everyone has an equal chance.

If we end up playing Wrexham away, we drew against them in our away game.

If we end up playing Solihull away, we drew against them in our away game.

If we end up playing Halifax away, we beat them once in the cup and only lost to a freak outcome in the league (which incidentally was 80/1 with 15 minutes to go).

The Liverpool example is a perfect one to back up my point (even i do say so myself). The bookies didn't think Villareal would run out of steam. It was a change made by the coach and a stroke of luck with poor goalkeeping that started the come back.

We were 1/25 to beat Dover at the start of the game on Monday.....

I went to both Halifax games and we played well for the most part but still crumbled in the league game hence the easy goals and soft underbelly observation. I also think we could go up in the playoffs but don't think we will. I don't think we've got no chance as everyone has a chance but not an equal one. As for last night the Diaz introduction helped and the keeper was poor but if VF had the energy to press as they did in the first half then they might have won, they sat back due to being knackered plus having something to defend and Liverpool grew in confidence. In summary not all the teams in the playoffs have an equal chance but all could go up, I hear alot of Notts definitely won't go up but that's people's opinions including mine if we finish outside 2nd or 3rd. That's all I'm saying, your comment of all have an equal chance isn't true. Night.

[crazyfists]

City tonight have crumbled under the late pressure and I think we could as well especially away as City are. All Notts fans want us to get out this terrible league and back to the land of the living but some are more positive and some look at it and think it'll take a massive effort to do so from 5th especially with our away record. It's ok saying we did this against Wrexham, SM and Halifax and being positive but that's neglecting the fact we're 14th best away.

[matt_magpie]

So if they had 11 players in the last third, where were the gaps? There weren't any because our pedestrian approach play gave them loads of time to fill the gaps and make sure everyone was marked. I think that's what frustrated so many, we never tried any variation. A few early balls to Wootton might have caused them a few problems but we never gave it a go, leaving Wootton anonymous.

Edit: Just read jackal's reply, and he explains what I'm trying to say better than I did.

I’ve read Jackals but just on Saturdays game my view is the tactics were right, we had 3 or 4 really good opportunities in the first half, JOB should have scored, Wooton should have and I think Sam should have. Once that goal goes in for a second the game opens up. For me it’s lack of finishing / anticipating getting on the end of balls flashed across the goal and by several players, that said we’re joint 3 in goals scored, the real issue is doing slightly better at the other end this season.

[uysapie]

I'm still glass half empty for the playoffs.

[laddo]

Yes I'm sorry. Still too soon. The pain is still raw!

XD Yes too soon for anyone who likes football.

I have a feeling the best approach to take is to pretend and convince yourself that it wasn't god awful dirge. We've missed a trick there jackal2, we remember it all too well :(

[laddo]

Exactly. That's how boards like this one work, and why the phrase "only on NCM" is so laughably naive.

Don't sit in judgement, and don't try and change it. Leave that to the posters.

It's only laughably naive if you embarrassingly keep missing the point.

I give up. I can't explain it any clearer than I just did lol.
#vivaNCM

[laddo]

I'm still glass half empty for the playoffs.

Now that did make me laugh XD.

Stay strong we will get there.

[kill_the_drum]

Good reply, thanks for that. I think you are getting a bit confused by terming occasional criticism as "constant criticism".

On boards like this one you will always get posters who think we've lost if we go 1-0 down, and posters who see nothing but a bright future. I hope the latter group have got it right. If you look for negatives you will definitely find them, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks that way.

Thanks Elite. When you dilute the posts on here you would say criticism is occasional. But by quite a few on here the criticism is constant.
It’s a pointless rant I made, because I don’t feel those people represent the mood of most fans, they just seem to make the most noise.
What I would love is for our fan base to be the 12th man going into the playoffs. We have a real opportunity to give Notts an advantage, even if we’re feeling disappointed to be where we are. Yet it just feels like we’re doing the opposite and writing them off, criticising players and tactics.
I know from talking to an ex player that they do read the socials and it does get talked about inside the club. In any walk of life, negativity breeds negativity.
So I’ll say it just one more time, let’s get behind the team.

[crazyfists]

When I go to the game I get behind them 100%and I don't boo at half time or full when others do, I just don't clap. That doesn't mean you can't come on a Notts discussion board and say you don't think they'll go up in the playoffs for x, y, z reasons. Is every post on here meant to be positive even when you don't feel like it about certain things, isn't that inaccurate and a form of propaganda? We all WANT Notts to go up but that doesn't mean you can't point out negatives, if so the board would be a lie.

[laddo]

I'm not sure why this question keeps being asked "Is every post on here meant to be positive...?" that is about as far off the mark and away from (NCM) 'reality' as anybody worrying that "everyone will agree with each other on here" and it will become boring, it just isn't happening.... ever lol. Both are moot points, I've never seen anyone ever come close to suggesting you can't criticise or be negative.

KTD repeated point is a valid and accurate one. They do make "the most noise", the "criticism is constant" (their default position, the alternative is often silence rather than praise) and "negativity breeds negativity", thankfully it is only very small numbers and are very much in minority when looking at the fanbase as a whole.

I want negatives pointed out, I want the players, manager, owners to be criticised when it is warranted, not when it isn't. Not when its clearly manufactured, with people desperately seeking to spin it into a negative at every opportunity. Thankfully they often start their statements with if, perhaps, maybe etc to let everyone know that it is just a guess, speculation, their opinion and not FACT.

If you haven't been able to spot the people who offer almost exclusive negativity and constant criticism of the club, manager, players etc by now then you never will. There is a NCM Mount Rushmore of Moaners, a small but exclusive and dedicated list for all to see. I am sure when these people are at Notts games they give full support, get behind the players 100% during the 90 mins shouting encouragement to the players and singing songs :)

To end on a much needed positive as KTD (who is recently on fire btw) said wouldn't it be great if "our fan base to be the 12th man going into the playoffs. We have a real opportunity to give Notts an advantage (due to the size of our crowds), even if we’re feeling disappointed to be where we are" by being vocal, positive and giving the players the best chance to perform and to win. Players feed of crowds, I think that's commonly known throughout sports. Surely we all want to give the team the best chance to go up?

After we go out of the playoffs prior to the final, we can then all moan, criticise on here and make ourselves feel good before going again next season

COYP

[cher1]

When I go to the game I get behind them 100%and I don't boo at half time or full when others do, I just don't clap. That doesn't mean you can't come on a Notts discussion board and say you don't think they'll go up in the playoffs for x, y, z reasons. Is every post on here meant to be positive even when you don't feel like it about certain things, isn't that inaccurate and a form of propaganda? We all WANT Notts to go up but that doesn't mean you can't point out negatives, if so the board would be a lie.

This is exactly how I feel. If some people prefer to look on the negative side, that's up to them; it's often a defence mechanism after years and years of disappointment. I don't understand why some posters get worked up about other posters' view of Notts.

And it's only fair to point out that someone who is frequently berated on here for their negativity spent an awful lot of money sponsoring the club a few years ago.

[Elite_Pie]

This is exactly how I feel. If some people prefer to look on the negative side, that's up to them; it's often a defence mechanism after years and years of disappointment. I don't understand why some posters get worked up about other posters' view of Notts.

Or why one poster in particular is so obsessed with highlighting this negativity when it comes unstuck. As well as ultra-negative posters, there are ultra-positive posters. I wish I could join them, but I can't see what they see. It takes all sorts.

[laddo]

Cher is quite right, as recently suggested by another poster, it is a 'defence mechanism' commonly displayed on this message board. You'd think after years and years of disappointment people would get used to it#trend

You can choose to ignore, you can choose to highlight or you can choose to continue to pretend it doesn't happen and state it is "occasional". Different strokes for different folks.

[durhampie]

Thanks Elite. When you dilute the posts on here you would say criticism is occasional. But by quite a few on here the criticism is constant.
It’s a pointless rant I made, because I don’t feel those people represent the mood of most fans, they just seem to make the most noise.
What I would love is for our fan base to be the 12th man going into the playoffs. We have a real opportunity to give Notts an advantage, even if we’re feeling disappointed to be where we are. Yet it just feels like we’re doing the opposite and writing them off, criticising players and tactics.
I know from talking to an ex player that they do read the socials and it does get talked about inside the club. In any walk of life, negativity breeds negativity.
So I’ll say it just one more time, let’s get behind the team.

We always get 100% behind the team at every away game, but we dont always get the same reaction from the team. I've never booed my team, but i will criticise them if i dont think we have been good enough. I spend literally hundreds of pound every season travelling over 6000 miles to away matches and i dont need some joker telling me to get behind the team..

[countygump]

I don't understand why some posters get worked up about other posters' view of Notts.


This^^^.

[cher1]

We always get 100% behind the team at every away game, but we dont always get the same reaction from the team. I've never booed my team, but i will criticise them if i dont think we have been good enough. I spend literally hundreds of pound every season travelling over 6000 miles to away matches and i dont need some joker telling me to get behind the team..

Can't disagree with any of that Durham (as a fellow non-booer).

[laddo]

I wish there were a lot more 100%ers like durham at Aldershot because the atmosphere in the away sections was dire pretty much throughout including when we were clearly on top in the 1st half. When the team who were struggling needed support it just wasn't there that day which was disappointing.

If people want to a boo they can obviously, it is their choice. I never have, my common two word comment delivered (shouted) only at half time or full time in the players/managers direction at Meadow Lane would be "Rubbish Notts". I would then go on to support the players during the second half or slope off home to drown my sorrows.

[upthemaggies]

If you want passion in the game, it works both ways. There will be exceptions, but for the most part the supporters who literally roar their approval the loudest on the terraces will also boo the loudest, depending on what is happening on the pitch.

By the sounds of it, the fans have been behind Notts for the most part since relegation, but Dover may serve as a warning as to what might be around the corner should Notts fail to get promoted yet again.

[Rainbowpie]

Everyone sees the games differently. Therefore opposite opinions and thoughts are guaranteed, Emotions and frustrations are usually shared but if not, it doesn't mean that people are wrong, it's just an opinion. Some people have negative opinions some have positive. It's the way it is. I can't understand why the same people jump on certain peoples posts just because they don't agree. It's pathetic
I have spent a lot of money following Notts away from home this season and have on occasion vented my frustration on here after certain performances, which i feel i'm entitled to do, but at the end of the day i'll be at the next fixture supporting Notts.

[durhampie]

Everyone sees the games differently. Therefore opposite opinions and thoughts are guaranteed, Emotions and frustrations are usually shared but if not, it doesn't mean that people are wrong, it's just an opinion. Some people have negative opinions some have positive. It's the way it is. I can't understand why the same people jump on certain peoples posts just because they don't agree. It's pathetic
I have spent a lot of money following Notts away from home this season and have on occasion vented my frustration on here after certain performances, which i feel i'm entitled to do, but at the end of the day i'll be at the next fixture supporting Notts.

Spot on Rainbow.. COYPs